Well this and a shorter work day/week so one doesn't have to chose between a social life, a healthy body, home upkeep, child care, and self care. Maybe sprinkle in some accessible and free healthcare both physical and mental. Idk, wouldn't be the first time i was wrong about something.
Exactly right. Just a bit of exercise every week is enough to get stronger muscles and no pain in back or anywhere else. At least that worked for me, and its easy to do.
Peoples bodies are rarely used for physical work if you work in some sitting down position all day, and it means you lose all muscles with time.
Nah, OP is just being elitist trying to justify those purchases. (not that they're bad ideas, just unnecessary)
The real answer is posture and lack of stretching and exercize. Unless you have an underlying issue like scoliosis, stretching and exercize fix 90% of the aches and pains young people whine about with "getting old" in their 30's.
I popped my two discs around L5. So far I'm trying to avoid surgery, pain is mostly under control at the moment but I've had extreme ups and downs for the last few months so...
Thank you for the exercise advice, I'll look them up and compare with what I'm currently doing. I do the McGill big 3 every day plus some other exercises and stretches I learned during physical therapy but I don't know the names of those.
I don't know exactly what these are based on your descriptions, but I went through physical therapy and was given some stretches/exercises that do for sure help some. It isn't a "cure", but as you said, if you have back pain and can do them, you should be trying to.
I suffered a slipped L5-S1 disc last Nov - suffering symptoms of pain and numbness in my left upper calf and outer side of my left foot. I did an MRI in Dec and there was nerve compression found and a degenerating L5-S1 disc.
Eventually the pain went away and the numbness became much less obvious but the doctors I saw recommended microdisectomy to avoid further potential damage to the nerve.
Immediately after the op (I did it 20th Feb) I did feel better but one or two days later the numbness returned stronger than before the op. Now on medication to try and see if the inflammation is temporary or something long term. Sigh
Your back hurts because you keep the same posture even when your body tells you not to.
When you have a job, and say work for 3-4 hours, your body will tell you to stop and do something else for a couple hours. But you can’t cause life.
The ergonomic stuff are fulfilling their purpose by giving you a decent posture, your just holding it too long.
This is also why being rich would be a solution, even those who are rich but work, they aren’t working 40 hours every week nonstop. It’s also why they are so keen that “golf meetings” are so effective.
I made up a story around it. Basically, golf is a metaphor for business (and sex, now that i think about it). You gotta get the ball (yourself) into the hole (your target). Sometimes, you can't do it in one step, so you require multiple steps to approach your goal. In any case, you take big steps in the beginning, and then as you get closer you need to become more gentle and delicate to not miss the perfect spot.
You can spice them up with alternating leg raises or do a superman or bird dog. There are also loads of other exercises that work. The best exercise isn't the most effective one, it's the one you actually do consistently
That’s how I finally got to exercise regularly. First, I spend way too long trying to hype myself up for running. Never happened. I hate running. No amount of convenience can convince me. Then I started hiking and yoga and swimming and whatever came my way. Sure, I don’t have any sort of routine, but I do some sport very regularly!
Pushups are also great, also helps with breasts that get easily fucked with your shoulders laying forwards while on computer long days. That shit got me so bad I had to take sick leave for a week due to shoulder pain
I did planking for about a thousand years (or so it felt) and it didn't really help at all. What did help massively was dumbbell swings! In just a couple of days my back pain was like 90% gone, totally gone today.
i find trackballs fascinating because i really like it but everybody else in the family fucking hate it as if kicked the dog or something. on the brighter side of things - everybody gave up on snooping around on my desktop
But don't do both. I use qwerty key caps and touch type in Dvorak; when I need to remote into another machine, I likely need to use qwerty until I'm logged in, that would be difficult with blank keycaps
Can anyone reccomend a split keyboard? I bought one last week, but it's tiny and lacks FN keys and holding down alt practically curls my thumb into my pinkie.
I remember when I was a teenager and those things were all the rage (mid 90s). I wanted one just because they were alternative.
Fast forward a whole bunch of years and I'm pilfering the supply closet at work, and happen to stumble upon a slightly dusty, but functional and genuine OG Microsoft split keyboard. So of course I just had to.
Let's just say that keyboard is back collecting dust in that exact same spot. The ergos of it were okish, like your hand naturally rests like that. But even just that little difference of layout messed my muscle memory up way too much. And you are right, hitting some of the function keys was too alien.
Kinesis are king. But if you want a cheaper option, Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic or whatever it's called is quite good, even though it's not properly split. The halves are angled so that your wrists wouldn't be crooked.
And when I inevitably break the key mechanism trying to clean inside, I unpack the old reliable MS Natural 4000 and clack away again.
Someone else reccomended the kinesis as well! Mobility is not a major concern, if it fits in a backpack, I'm OK. Is it mechanical? As everyone knows, keys that go clickety-clack are a must
I have a Lily58 that I love. I put mine together myself (save for soldering. The place I found mine offered a service to do that before shipping) so it’s a bit different looking than this one shown in their preview, but it’s the same layout.
There’s several out there depending on what you want. I don’t mess with anything like ortholinear or Ergodox because the stagger is weird. So in the “regular keyboard but split” space, if you don’t want to build your own, there’s the cloud9, the dygma raise 2, and even such like the Feker Alice looks cool too - it’s not mechanically split but does give the split curve feel like the MS Ergo.
With a standing desk, you have to be very careful in not being stationary. Standing in the same position for an hour is not great for your back at all, but the goal of a standing desk is to constantly move a little bit and relax your back muscles. Ideally, you want some sort of standing desk pad that forces you to subconsciously constantly move.
Stretch. If you don't know how, look up yoga routines, and make sure not to force yourself into any positions you cannot easily reach. Until you're more experienced with pushing against your body's limits, it's pretty easy to hurt yourself pushing up against limits.
Same as the ergonomic mouse. Natural poses are less stressful.
Which means palms facing each other instead of facing down in one case, and hands should-wide apart with relaxed shoulders instead hunching in the other.
Caveat: Most people nowadays never learned to properly type but are self-taught. Which makes using split keyboards more challenging.
Even just a keyboard with left and right halves angled toward the respective arms would help. Because with a typical keyboard, the arms come at it at an angle, and then the wrists are crooked to have the fingers on the straight key rows. An angled or split keyboard allows to keep the wrists straight.
I keep thinking that your lower back hurts for psychological reasons. Like, tummy ache is caused by psychological reasons like 90% of the time. It makes sense that the same would apply to back aching, since they're in the same region.
I don't have as much desk time as I used to. My back hurts because I'm old and I have done a bunch of different jobs that hurt my back in a bunch of different ways.
I'm using a "laying chair" which is superior for posture
Still better than AI slop.
This had me actually giggle out loud.
Looks Like someone needs a Paleo Chair 😁
(350-450€)
🖥️🦐
dude i want the emperor too, i will save up another car's worth for my chair
Who let you in my house?
I actually do this sometimes, feels good
Lying.
i'm doin that in my chair too
Mouse Quest player core
When did you take this picture of me??
Actually my back hurts because your mother damaged it with her large mass when we were engaged in coitus.
Daaaaaaad stop
That's what she said
🧐
There's a big difference between "Dad" and "Daddy" though less than the users of one think.
I read coitus as combat. Makes sense I suppose
combat is implied. if you're doing it right.
Nah it's because I don't have enough monitors.
Need a 4th one to balance things out nicely
But then you won't have a middle one to look straight ahead. Go for 5 instead
3 wide, middle stacked
Ah the ol’ crosshair setup
one long vertical in the middle, two normies on the side
Nah, need to go straight to 9, 3x3 matrix. It's acceptable to pause at 6 if you are budget conscious.
Time to up the resolution
real solution for most people would be to start exercising
Well this and a shorter work day/week so one doesn't have to chose between a social life, a healthy body, home upkeep, child care, and self care. Maybe sprinkle in some accessible and free healthcare both physical and mental. Idk, wouldn't be the first time i was wrong about something.
While all of these things would obviously be great, you still need to do the exercise.
Exactly right. Just a bit of exercise every week is enough to get stronger muscles and no pain in back or anywhere else. At least that worked for me, and its easy to do.
Peoples bodies are rarely used for physical work if you work in some sitting down position all day, and it means you lose all muscles with time.
That sounds like a lot of work ...
Are you sure there aren't easy solutions that only involve spending money and not effort? Maybe a pill or expensive chair?
TL;DR your back hurts because you're poor.
Nah, OP is just being elitist trying to justify those purchases. (not that they're bad ideas, just unnecessary)
The real answer is posture and lack of stretching and exercize. Unless you have an underlying issue like scoliosis, stretching and exercize fix 90% of the aches and pains young people whine about with "getting old" in their 30's.
Pretty sure OP is sarcastic
Yea, it's a meme. Though sadly a lot of people I run into unironically think the meme is the best solution.
Until knowledge becomes laughably common, I'm going to try to spread what is best. Especially when the better option is way cheaper.
Yo I swear by my trackball mouse. Vertical mice are trash tho, complete placebo I'm sure of it.
Absolutely, I love my trackball, too. As much as I always want a better one, I'm never going back to mice.
Well actually the worst thing for posture is having the same all the time so sit/stand desk are rly helpful if you use them by shifting you position.
I popped my two discs around L5. So far I'm trying to avoid surgery, pain is mostly under control at the moment but I've had extreme ups and downs for the last few months so...
Thank you for the exercise advice, I'll look them up and compare with what I'm currently doing. I do the McGill big 3 every day plus some other exercises and stretches I learned during physical therapy but I don't know the names of those.
I don't know exactly what these are based on your descriptions, but I went through physical therapy and was given some stretches/exercises that do for sure help some. It isn't a "cure", but as you said, if you have back pain and can do them, you should be trying to.
Ty for this
I suffered a slipped L5-S1 disc last Nov - suffering symptoms of pain and numbness in my left upper calf and outer side of my left foot. I did an MRI in Dec and there was nerve compression found and a degenerating L5-S1 disc.
Eventually the pain went away and the numbness became much less obvious but the doctors I saw recommended microdisectomy to avoid further potential damage to the nerve.
Immediately after the op (I did it 20th Feb) I did feel better but one or two days later the numbness returned stronger than before the op. Now on medication to try and see if the inflammation is temporary or something long term. Sigh
Your back hurts because you keep the same posture even when your body tells you not to.
When you have a job, and say work for 3-4 hours, your body will tell you to stop and do something else for a couple hours. But you can’t cause life.
The ergonomic stuff are fulfilling their purpose by giving you a decent posture, your just holding it too long.
This is also why being rich would be a solution, even those who are rich but work, they aren’t working 40 hours every week nonstop. It’s also why they are so keen that “golf meetings” are so effective.
About the golf meetings:
I made up a story around it. Basically, golf is a metaphor for business (and sex, now that i think about it). You gotta get the ball (yourself) into the hole (your target). Sometimes, you can't do it in one step, so you require multiple steps to approach your goal. In any case, you take big steps in the beginning, and then as you get closer you need to become more gentle and delicate to not miss the perfect spot.
It's true ! I have all three, and now my legs and upper back hurt instead !
Thank you, ergonomics !
If you can help it, taking short breaks in between long work hours and stretching goes a long way without buying anything outrageous.
RSIBreak on Linux Workrave on Windows.
I think both are multi platform but I've had problems making them work in the other OS.
Seems like Workrave is also available on Linux. Did you not know that or did you recommend RSIBreak for Linux because you think it's better?
have standing desk, always lowered
"Hmmm, I'm going to write you a prescription for 75% more RGB LED backlighting"
I have all those things, but my back hurts because I fucked it up on my 20's moving file cabinets at a minimum wage job.
I do consider it the reason i don't have carpal tunnel after 30 years of IT/Code/Sysadmin though.
I hate that planking is the best exercise for strengthening your lower back. They’re just so boring to do.
You can spice them up with alternating leg raises or do a superman or bird dog. There are also loads of other exercises that work. The best exercise isn't the most effective one, it's the one you actually do consistently
That’s how I finally got to exercise regularly. First, I spend way too long trying to hype myself up for running. Never happened. I hate running. No amount of convenience can convince me. Then I started hiking and yoga and swimming and whatever came my way. Sure, I don’t have any sort of routine, but I do some sport very regularly!
I forgot the bird-dog!
Pushups are also great, also helps with breasts that get easily fucked with your shoulders laying forwards while on computer long days. That shit got me so bad I had to take sick leave for a week due to shoulder pain
Deadlifts would like a word!
Also they are more fun, you feel like a super hero that can lift a house, and it's a compound lift!
I did planking for about a thousand years (or so it felt) and it didn't really help at all. What did help massively was dumbbell swings! In just a couple of days my back pain was like 90% gone, totally gone today.
I'm quite tall, so YMMV.
While dumb expensive the Aeron chair makes sitting at a desk all day do able and not painful.
They've come down in price and there are actually better options out there now.
What are those better options...?
Fleeing into the woods.
Curious about the chairs too though.
See, I keep trying to tell the wife that, but she's all "how gonna eat in the woods?" Apparently squirrels was the wrong answer.
The cheapest chair you can find with a great lumbar pillow that fits your back, and a butt pillow
I will let you know if I turn into a shrimp
Agree. You can also find them second hand at pretty decent prices
Used steel case leap. Doesn't look pretty or have RGB, or a built in mini fridge or whatever, but it works and it costs like 100-200usd.
You're talking about v1 I assume? V2's go for quite a bit more
Both ours are v2. We bought them at like office wholesale warehouse things. Like when offices closed and sell off all their stuff.
I could have sworn it was due to the severe injury I sustained, but who am I to argue with science?
Hundreds of upvotes on a shitpost can't be wrong!
Degenerative disc disorderbad mouseCould also be kidney stones
Or lupus.
It's never lupus.
Is that the one that chicks make up all the time?
Shitty take. I think you're trying to reference sciatica, which doesn't make your comment any less sexist and gross
no, my lower back hurts because i got impaled there. it hurts less because i have a chair with a double rocker and well positioned monitors
Did you meet Vlad?
I use a trackball mouse. That must be why my back is doing great.
i find trackballs fascinating because i really like it but everybody else in the family fucking hate it as if kicked the dog or something. on the brighter side of things - everybody gave up on snooping around on my desktop
Bonus points if you can touch-type: Legendless blank keycaps. XD
If that doesn't work learn Dvorak
We’re old, all the kids are learning colemack these days.
The kids are wrong
Those kids ain't right, Peggy.
But don't do both. I use qwerty key caps and touch type in Dvorak; when I need to remote into another machine, I likely need to use qwerty until I'm logged in, that would be difficult with blank keycaps
Very true
now that's some next level shit. Gotta try it out. Thanks for the tip.
Jokes on you! I do all of that and it still hurts!
Did all that, turns out it is just Cervical Spondylosis.
Can anyone reccomend a split keyboard? I bought one last week, but it's tiny and lacks FN keys and holding down alt practically curls my thumb into my pinkie.
I remember when I was a teenager and those things were all the rage (mid 90s). I wanted one just because they were alternative.
Fast forward a whole bunch of years and I'm pilfering the supply closet at work, and happen to stumble upon a slightly dusty, but functional and genuine OG Microsoft split keyboard. So of course I just had to.
Let's just say that keyboard is back collecting dust in that exact same spot. The ergos of it were okish, like your hand naturally rests like that. But even just that little difference of layout messed my muscle memory up way too much. And you are right, hitting some of the function keys was too alien.
Kinesis are king. But if you want a cheaper option, Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic or whatever it's called is quite good, even though it's not properly split. The halves are angled so that your wrists wouldn't be crooked.
And when I inevitably break the key mechanism trying to clean inside, I unpack the old reliable MS Natural 4000 and clack away again.
I'll look into the kinesis! I finally got a chair for my office/game desk, and my arms are resting too far apart for a connected keyboard.
I love my glove80 but it's not without a learning curve
Kinesis Freestyle2. I've had mine since COVID and still love it. They have both Mac and PC key layouts, including function keys.
Edit: I'll add it's an "at home" keyboard for me. If you need to travel with it frequently, it's not super mobile.
Someone else reccomended the kinesis as well! Mobility is not a major concern, if it fits in a backpack, I'm OK. Is it mechanical? As everyone knows, keys that go clickety-clack are a must
What if you’re in construction?
You hurt your back carrying your standing desk up ten floors.
split keyboard recs?
I have a Lily58 that I love. I put mine together myself (save for soldering. The place I found mine offered a service to do that before shipping) so it’s a bit different looking than this one shown in their preview, but it’s the same layout.
https://keebd.com/en-us/products/lily58-pro-keyboard-kit
oooh, 2 cool!
I love my Moonlander keyboard at home: https://www.zsa.io/moonlander
And I built an Iris for my desk at work: https://keeb.io/products/iris-se-kit
Svalboard Lightly
https://svalboard.com/
![email protected]
There’s several out there depending on what you want. I don’t mess with anything like ortholinear or Ergodox because the stagger is weird. So in the “regular keyboard but split” space, if you don’t want to build your own, there’s the cloud9, the dygma raise 2, and even such like the Feker Alice looks cool too - it’s not mechanically split but does give the split curve feel like the MS Ergo.
I tried a standing desk and it made my back pain a lot worse.
With a standing desk, you have to be very careful in not being stationary. Standing in the same position for an hour is not great for your back at all, but the goal of a standing desk is to constantly move a little bit and relax your back muscles. Ideally, you want some sort of standing desk pad that forces you to subconsciously constantly move.
Yeah, extremely cheesy way of putting it: The best work position is the next one.
I.e. don't stay in one position for a long time, but rather switch it up regularly.
I use all three of those and my back hurts more.
Stretch. If you don't know how, look up yoga routines, and make sure not to force yourself into any positions you cannot easily reach. Until you're more experienced with pushing against your body's limits, it's pretty easy to hurt yourself pushing up against limits.
Then you stop using them and the back hurts even more.
Oh good, I thought it was from the repeated hard pounding in the ass.
It's both.
I use none of those and my lower back is fine. Lifting weights fixed all that shit almost immediately.
you used an and operator instead of xor.
sorry, your statement is false and my back hurts because....
I never get back pain, because I get it all in my shoulders and neck instead.
Same actually. Sometimes in the legs too. But I did start exercising a bit to improve my neck and shoulders.
(Me crossing out “aggressive twerking”) Dang, wrong again.
What are you, a fucking casual? GTFO of here unless you're using a computer-brain interface and floating in a vat. People like you make me sick.
How does split keyboard help?
It allows two people to have better posture when they're both hacking into the mainframe on the same keyboard.
Lol
I get this reference lol
It allows you to keep your arms shoulder-width apart which makes it easier to avoid hunching.
Same as the ergonomic mouse. Natural poses are less stressful.
Which means palms facing each other instead of facing down in one case, and hands should-wide apart with relaxed shoulders instead hunching in the other.
Caveat: Most people nowadays never learned to properly type but are self-taught. Which makes using split keyboards more challenging.
Even just a keyboard with left and right halves angled toward the respective arms would help. Because with a typical keyboard, the arms come at it at an angle, and then the wrists are crooked to have the fingers on the straight key rows. An angled or split keyboard allows to keep the wrists straight.
Lower back support pillow will do the trick too.
I use a really small table and literally sit on the ground, and I got no back pain
context: it was supposed to be temporary when my table got damaged, but I ended liking it
My lower back is the opposite where standing straight for a while actually causes pain.
I keep thinking that your lower back hurts for psychological reasons. Like, tummy ache is caused by psychological reasons like 90% of the time. It makes sense that the same would apply to back aching, since they're in the same region.
I don't have as much desk time as I used to. My back hurts because I'm old and I have done a bunch of different jobs that hurt my back in a bunch of different ways.
I can't afford a good standing desk.... and the split keyboard is not needed.
Fuck off with your ablist bullshit.