I mean, usually the side effects have qualifiers like „Common: mild headaches“ „Very Rare: become a vessel for satan to roam the earth and sow chaos“.
Wouldn’t it indeed be nice to have this for the positive effects too?
Normally if there are postive effects from a drug, they get studied further and re-marketed as such. If I remember correctly, Viagra was originally a medicine for heart conditions.
Once I was prescribed low-dose antipsychotics to help me fall asleep. They made me energetic, productive, I actually started enjoying life. Then my dr said it wasn't supposed to happen so cut them off.
I mean, what if the better quality sleep was causing those effects? That does seem unfortunate you had to stop using something making you feel better. I wonder if there was a different, more dangerous side effect they were worried about.
Oh fuck that. I would get a second opinion. At least now you know to underplay it. "I think it's working, yes. Sleeping better and feeling a little better, no side effects that are bothersome, this one seems good, thanks."
Sometimes antidepressants can unmask bipolar disorder and cause manic episodes but I've never heard of anything similar with antipsychotics. In fact they're often used as sedatives as OP alluded to.
The underlying reason is that someone who has a dramatic shift to either extreme often comes with negative behaviors. Bipolar mania for example could result in blowing through money or seeking pleasure outside a relationship and a bunch of other stuff with negative outcomes.
I would hope their decision making was more nuanced than basic correlation.
I am not satisfied with that answer. You got bipolar mania from an increase in happiness, which doesn't sit right with me. And he was prescribed antipsychotics, which are treatment for mania. It seems to me to be a case of an unexperienced doctor ceasing treatment because he was afraid of an unexpected result.
Most doctors I've spoken to have been quite happy to work with me rather than against me.
The unfortunate trick is you need to self educate to speak a bit more in their language. You also need to accept they are often working within rules that are unintuitive.
E.g. I prefer a particular brand drug Vs the generics. (The delivery method was slightly different) I had to cycle through the generics so they could tick them off in the system. Otherwise it would try to automatically shift me to a generic.
If you smell dog shit, check the ground. If you constantly smell dog shit, check your shoe.
Most doctors are trying to help as many people as possible, as quickly as possible. 80-90% are fine to work with you, within their workflow. If every doctor you encounter is in the 10% then either you're VERY unlucky, or you are the problem element.
Because when they do it generally becomes one of the advertised effects. Lots of drugs were originally for something else but were later found to be useful for other things.
Lots of medications have positive side effects, depending on the patient. I once got prescribed antidepressants specifically for their sleep-inducing effect (I did also have depression, but many antidepressants don't make you drowsy). Paracetamol is a painkiller and also lowers fever. etc.
That was prozac for me. My sex drive was fine, my bits responded as they should, but I couldn't finish at all. I told my psychiatrist I'd rather be unmedicated than deal with that bullshit again lol
Pain drugs like paracetamol don't work at all in a significant number of people for pain. Taking an anti febrile is a really bad idea, basically an immune inhibitor.
Wasn't that the case with Ozempic? It was meant for diabetes patients first but then they noted the effect in reduced hunger and many other positive improvements which its why it has become as popular as it has
Technically doesn't give you a boner but inhibits the hormone that makes it harder to get a boner (e.g during your refractory period)
To get a boner you still need stimulation, physical or mental.
Why do I know this? My last relationship was very abusive and stressful. Even boner pills didn't help much. When I got out of it, things started working again. The pills work best when you actually want to have sex with your partner, but still have issues.
Oh, there are quite some. Just from the top of my heaf: Viagra originally was just a heart medication. Metformin, a diabetes 2 medication, is strongly suspected of having other positive side effects, like generally prolonging life. There recently was an article about a new Alzheimer medication which would be quick to the market as such because it is already a certified medication against something else.
Speed is fucking awesome, it makes me feel like a productive citizen.
Why are all these dishes in the sink ? That's crazy! Let me clean this counter up ,it'll only take 11 minutes then Im going to pay all my bills on time. Wow that was easy , now I won't worry about all that crap and I'll probably sleep like a baby tonight. I'm going to read a book for a little while then go to sleep
I think part of it is also that occasional positive side effects are not something drug companies can advertise. They're legally obligated to talk about the negative ones.
Same with tirzepatide was used for a long time on diabetes 2 patients, but they realized it affected their hunger positively so it is now used as a weight loss drug.
So the ones with real "feel good" side effects are the ones that people have addiction problems with, and instead of indirectly giving pleasure, they give it directly. Some people enjoy while they use them and move on with life, others become obsessed with that pleasure and throw everything else away in the pusuit of it.
Was here to say this.
When ever they find out some unexpected benefit of a drug, they often invent a disorder and then offer up the treatment.
Things like erectile dysfunction are not really a disorder. It's normal for men to find it more difficult to get and maintain an erection as they exit their 20s. And it will keep reducing.
Imagine if 50 year old men still walked around like 15 year old boys. My gawd. The world couldn't survive.
Other drugs with invented dysfunctions.
Male pattern baldness. Again natural and normal for men.
Eye lash thickness. Yes there is a prescription drug to treat your thin eye lashes.
There is a prescription sex drug for women. And here is the best part. It just makes women relaxed and sleepy.
Yeah .. so think about that.
Our society is fucked.
Natural changes as part of development being labeled as things that need treated.
I mean the body pain sucks. The loss of energy. Muscle tone.
But wrinkles ? Hair loss?
Our capitalistic culture decided it needed people to pay for vanity comforts. Have made it so people are depressed about natural changes that aren't health related.
Makeup and cosmetic companies used to say you had to stay youthful and pretty or your husband would leave you for his young secretary. Now they tell you, you need lip filler and Botox at 25 "for yourself ". So you can feel good about yourself.
Bitch, please.
Propaganda to first make you feel like shit then offer you a solution that cost money.
And now we have women with swollen faces and lips everywhere, like some platypus fetish, and hair transplants look like shit once the rest of the hair thins out.
Wait, migraines? Are you able to give me (what would technically legally be non-medical) information on that? Migraines run in my family and every family that comes into contact with my little brother. Aside from the botulism poisoning method, how does that work?
I get quarterly botox injections from my neurologist for my migraines. It's 20+ little injections in my brow, jaw, neck, and shoulders. Before insurance would allow it, we had to try all other available treatments/medications, including a monthly at-home injection you give yourself. For me, at least, it's been way better than the earlier treatments. I used to have 2-4 migraines per week at a pain around a 5 or 6 with a couple a year that would hurt more like an 8 or 9. Now I get 0-2 per week, usually no worse than a 3 on pain. It's pretty common to go a few weeks without any, then just get one a week in the last month before my next injection.
Results vary a lot, probably because there are a lot of potential causes and even how we experience our migraines can vary so significantly. Efficacy can fade with time, too. But for me, at least, it's held out for several years, and worked better than I or my doctor even expected.
It's actually a labeled use nowadays. Just Google it on a burner phone (once advertised think you have migraines you'll see nothing but migraine ads for months)
There is a positive feedback loop between psychic tension and scalp muscle tension. The more psychic tension aka stress you've got, the more migraine you'll get, if you're prone to migraine. Relaxing the scalp muscles with botox (or needles aka acupuncture or massage - botox is just far more efficient) will lead to less psychic tension will lead to less migraine.
I'm not sure whether it works in the long run if you do not work on reducing stress in other ways as well. I don't know whether there are other mechanisms, though.
However, the trial ended prematurely as investigators did not meet their sample size, so the funding was discontinued.
How? Why? This kind of study should be trivially easy to complete. The medication is already on the market, generics are super cheap, administration is super simple and non-invasive and I'd guess there are plenty of women suffering from PMS. That sounds like the kind of study that a grad student could pull off on a DIY budget.
According to Google, generics are ~€0.50 per dose and they administered a single dose per patient. Let's say placebos cost the same as the generics, then the cost for these 25 participants was less than €15.
My only wild and reaching guess, beyond simple cruelty and hatred, is marketing was afraid of associating the drug with periods because "men would get grossed out" and potentially impact that share of the market.
And it's kinda stupid too. PMS is well known to not be conductive to female libido, and female libido is conductive to Viagra sales. So why not sell it to women too (=more sales) which might increase the occasions to sell it to men as well.
IDK if i have a partner i want them to be comfortable. Idk whether there's just a lot of incels in powerful places or men have historically just hated the women they're with. Either way that's one reason I don't identify as a man.
I wonder if actually helpful PMS medication would cannibalize e.g. pain medication sales. Generic viagra is super cheap, and in the study they used just one dose. So if that's the actual dosage required in the end, that could cost the pharmaceuticals industry money.
Similar to with vas occlusive contraception. It's really easy, simple, dirt cheap, lasts long, is reversible, non-hormonal, no side effects male contraception. It's basically the perfect contraception and it's the only reversible long-term contraception that men can use.
But it was dropped because it would pretty much annihilate the female contraceptive industry, which makes a huge amount of money each year.
Quote from the Wiki article on RISUG, the form of Vas-occlusive contraception that came closest to getting to market:
Despite this, pharmaceutical companies are reluctant to lose market share of a thriving global market for female contraceptives and condoms which bring billions of dollars of revenue each year. Initially, RISUG attracted some interest from pharmaceutical companies. However, considering that RISUG is an inexpensive, one-time procedure, manufacturers retracted.
Yeah i generally assume decisions like these are profit/hate driven. If you can make a market case, even mildly convincing that profits will be hit, it's going to be researched enough to get copyright and bury as long as possible.
Just can't imagine being one of those researchers(if they knew/weren't duped), board members or marketing fucks going home to someone who thinks they're loved, watching them writhe in pain, and think, "yeah I'm gonna be so rich!"
Weirdly, they administered sildanefil vaginally. You'll need a pharmacist and a laboritory to create sildenafil vaginal suppositories, so a bit above grad school level.
The reason they cite for the decline of funding - "PMS doesn't exist" - shows that the real reason is misogynistic managers.
Weirdly, they administered sildanefil vaginally. You'll need a pharmacist and a laboritory to create sildenafil vaginal suppositories, so a bit above grad school level.
Still something that any pharmacy can do for a low price. They only need to grind up regular sildanefil pills and put the powder into vaginal suppositories.
Our pharmacy did something similar for anal suppositories for our baby when there were covid-related shortages for ibuprofen suppositories.
I mean a fair amount of my friends had endometriosis (not sure if that's a geographic oddity or something worse) and now I'm curious if that could have (whole lot of hysterectomies in the gang) helped.
I mean if it would that's just that much more infuriating...
But I'm not that knowledgeable on the difference between the impact of a cyst and the mechanism that gives cramps. My ex had endo. Miserable experience. I wish your friends the best in managing it.
Weird, my ex had endo as well... Didn't want sex for a long time, and I was doing my best to be understanding and not pester her... Then she unexpectedly ended up in the ER with extreme pain and heavy bleeding, bad enough she was on morphine and needed a blood transfusion.... It took months, but I eventually found out she had cheated on me with our son's best friend's dad, and that apparently triggered the event. Hence why she's now my ex.
Probably 3/4 of the people I know on GP1s are either reporting mental health/addiction benefits, or are taking it exclusively for that reason. Helped me quit weed, helping a friend of mine quit vaping right now. Shuts off my gut-wrenching anxiety. I hate jumping on bandwagons but it's a bit of a miracle drug, hopefully it doesn't cause your DNA to turn inside out after 10 years or something.
So like, my best MD I ever had, he said "you're got symptoms A, B, and C, right? Well doctors like to treat it with G, but pill H has main effect B and side effects A and C. Only problem is doctors hate prescribing it. Let's try it!"
Bit of a toss up, but wasn't the original purpose of Viagra to treat cardiovascular issues; Side effects: extending sex lives for many partners I suppose.
Wasn't Ozempic, gpl-1 antagonist, supposed to help type 2 diabetes manage their sugar fluctuations yet had the positive side effect of lowering their appetite and now is basically being pivoted as a revolutionary weightloss drug
Yup, it starts off as an observed effect, then gets documented enough to where it shows up in studies, and then doctors are willing to prescribe it for "off label" use, then trials are run to rigorously test for that effect, until the medical health authorities agree that there's a strong enough scientific basis to use as a treatment for that condition to where it is approved for that use.
Not necessarily... Several of the new weight loss drugs are primarily something else, and the weight loss is an "off-label" use. My (now ex-) wife was prescribed mounjaro for her type 2 diabetes, and proceeded to lose a considerable amount of weight. She wanted me to do the same, but insurance only covers the primary use, I wasn't/am not diabetic, so I'd have to pay out of pocket, and that shit is expensive.
They do, but they're legally required to tell you all of the bad effects and it's rare for the positive effects to have any importance outside the intended effects for the medication to treat a serious disease warranting the risks.
Entropy. There's only a few ways for things to go right and countless ways for things to go wrong. Therefore, the probability of an undesirable outcome is far higher than any desirable outcome.
The cheese of the day of cheese.com is now for months stuck at reggianito so have the CotD from a chez community im in
Cheese of the day: American Cheese
American cheese, often found in households and restaurants across the United States, is a processed cheese product with a unique place in American cuisine. It has a low melting point, making it a popular choice while making various dishes.
This cheese is made from a blend of milk, milk fats, and other ingredients such as whey protein concentrate, milk protein concentrate, and preservatives.
American cheese is known for its mild, creamy taste and smooth, uniform texture. Since it melts easily, it is used in cheeseburgers, grilled cheese sandwiches, and macaroni and cheese. It is less flavourful and less natural than traditional cheeses.
i have bad news about how we call those "unwanted effect" and as long as we agree that it is a 100% semantic argument, then I'm game to argue till the end of days
Viagra is a prime example. They were trying to treat premature ejaculation, and a side-effect was a solid, consistent boner.
And ALL those weight loss drugs started as a treatment for Diabetes, that had the side effects of losing weight.
I just saw an ad for Zepbound, one of those new weight loss drugs. My doctor prescribed one of those, but my insurance won't pay for weight loss drugs, which is common (and stupid). The new Zepbound ad claims it treats sleep apnea, and sleep apnea treatment is covered by insurance. The fact that it treats sleep apnea by helping you lose weight gets around the insurance restrictions.
Every material we can ingest (or apply on skin, etc) will have effects
Since there are a many more ways for things to go wrong, and very few ways for something to go right, the chance that you get a "negative" side effect is higher than that it's a positive effect
There's also off-label usage for drugs where a doctor will prescribe a medication for a different effect than what is originally intended, that's basically a positive side effect.
Because people either don't care about positive side effects, or it becomes an off-label/alternate use for the medication.
"May make you feel better" isn't the kind of side-effect that someone would typically pay very much attention to, for example, unless it was meant for them to be aware of the possibility whilst their body adjusted to the new medication, and it would go back to normal after.
The medication I take reduces appetite. Not hunger, just appetite. If you struggle with obesity because you eat for emotional reasons, that could be a positive for you.
But I am struggling with eating enough, so I won't get low blood sugar. And so I don't get overweight¹. I think I ate 2 corn wafers today. 40 kcal. It's 21:02. That's not enough!
The positive side effects are usually just the effects.
And the ones that aren't are usually called "off-label". ;)
I mean, usually the side effects have qualifiers like „Common: mild headaches“ „Very Rare: become a vessel for satan to roam the earth and sow chaos“. Wouldn’t it indeed be nice to have this for the positive effects too?
Normally if there are postive effects from a drug, they get studied further and re-marketed as such. If I remember correctly, Viagra was originally a medicine for heart conditions.
Would you rather a) die of your heart condition or b) always have a boner
and it's used to manage pulmonary hypertension in infants.
Or at least not legally required to be listed to avoid liability.
Once I was prescribed low-dose antipsychotics to help me fall asleep. They made me energetic, productive, I actually started enjoying life. Then my dr said it wasn't supposed to happen so cut them off.
I mean, what if the better quality sleep was causing those effects? That does seem unfortunate you had to stop using something making you feel better. I wonder if there was a different, more dangerous side effect they were worried about.
"euphoria" was among possible side effects. I guess the worry was it was getting me high.
Oh fuck that. I would get a second opinion. At least now you know to underplay it. "I think it's working, yes. Sleeping better and feeling a little better, no side effects that are bothersome, this one seems good, thanks."
Oh no, they shouldn't make you feel too good!
Sometimes antidepressants can unmask bipolar disorder and cause manic episodes but I've never heard of anything similar with antipsychotics. In fact they're often used as sedatives as OP alluded to.
Unless mania or hypomania was present previously in a patient, this would be more about the drug's effects than revealing a pre-existing condition.
I'd find a new doctor and tell them what was working for you
Doctor was like, I am sorry but you are not supposed to enjoy life.
uh thats stupid? what even was the logic?
The underlying reason is that someone who has a dramatic shift to either extreme often comes with negative behaviors. Bipolar mania for example could result in blowing through money or seeking pleasure outside a relationship and a bunch of other stuff with negative outcomes.
I would hope their decision making was more nuanced than basic correlation.
I am not satisfied with that answer. You got bipolar mania from an increase in happiness, which doesn't sit right with me. And he was prescribed antipsychotics, which are treatment for mania. It seems to me to be a case of an unexperienced doctor ceasing treatment because he was afraid of an unexpected result.
You don't have to blindly accept what the doctor is saying, challenge them. It is after all your body and your life
LOL have you ever challenged a doctor? Expect more empathy from ICE.
Most doctors I've spoken to have been quite happy to work with me rather than against me.
The unfortunate trick is you need to self educate to speak a bit more in their language. You also need to accept they are often working within rules that are unintuitive.
E.g. I prefer a particular brand drug Vs the generics. (The delivery method was slightly different) I had to cycle through the generics so they could tick them off in the system. Otherwise it would try to automatically shift me to a generic.
You're adorable.
I'm guessing you just mouth off at doctors, and so get treated like an idiot.
Guess again! I hope you never have to deal with what I deal with, but in a way I do. Suffering is a great teacher.
If you smell dog shit, check the ground. If you constantly smell dog shit, check your shoe.
Most doctors are trying to help as many people as possible, as quickly as possible. 80-90% are fine to work with you, within their workflow. If every doctor you encounter is in the 10% then either you're VERY unlucky, or you are the problem element.
You're pathetic
You're a psychopath. An excellent candidate for medical school. Did you apply?
Doctors are the last people who care about you. They have procedures they memorized and their job is to fill out forms and push you along the system.
Because when they do it generally becomes one of the advertised effects. Lots of drugs were originally for something else but were later found to be useful for other things.
Lots of medications have positive side effects, depending on the patient. I once got prescribed antidepressants specifically for their sleep-inducing effect (I did also have depression, but many antidepressants don't make you drowsy). Paracetamol is a painkiller and also lowers fever. etc.
Side effects may include becoming a charismatic sex machine.
Not as extreme, but Viagra was created to treat pulmonary hypertension and treating erectile dysfunction was a side effect.
And don't get me started on zoloft.... At some point "stamina" becomes Sisyphean flesh slapping.
I prefer to call it being an ace in the hole, but now I'm just projecting
That was prozac for me. My sex drive was fine, my bits responded as they should, but I couldn't finish at all. I told my psychiatrist I'd rather be unmedicated than deal with that bullshit again lol
You know I have heard paracetamol is a pain killer. I've taken it many times and not once has it done anything for pain. Now fever, that it affects.
Pain drugs like paracetamol don't work at all in a significant number of people for pain. Taking an anti febrile is a really bad idea, basically an immune inhibitor.
Unless your fever is too high and you need to bring it down. There are times it's appropriate thank you for your advice doctor...?
It's individual and doesn't affect all pains equally. I've used it against headaches for years, at some point that just stopped working for me.
Wasn't that the case with Ozempic? It was meant for diabetes patients first but then they noted the effect in reduced hunger and many other positive improvements which its why it has become as popular as it has
Same with Viagra. It's actually a heart medication. It just happened to give guys boners.
It's cuz they have so much love in their hearts now.
Technically doesn't give you a boner but inhibits the hormone that makes it harder to get a boner (e.g during your refractory period)
To get a boner you still need stimulation, physical or mental.
Why do I know this? My last relationship was very abusive and stressful. Even boner pills didn't help much. When I got out of it, things started working again. The pills work best when you actually want to have sex with your partner, but still have issues.
It was always a weight control drug, even for diabetics. I cannot believe people take that drug just for weight.
No, it has side effects, it’s popular because the public yearns for a diet pill that works and are willing to deal with the side effects
Are the side effects still oily uncontrollable shits or have they found better ones
Edit: I am available as an ointment consultant if it's still the shits
I have never stated that it doesn't have side effects, I just said it also has positive side effect compared to what was initially expected.
Ok. Then you’re right. :)
Oh, there are quite some. Just from the top of my heaf: Viagra originally was just a heart medication. Metformin, a diabetes 2 medication, is strongly suspected of having other positive side effects, like generally prolonging life. There recently was an article about a new Alzheimer medication which would be quick to the market as such because it is already a certified medication against something else.
Finasteride was designed to treat prostate cancer but it helps with male pattern baldness.
4% of finasteride users can't get it up.
I lost a bit of weight when I went on ADHD meds
Speed is fucking awesome, it makes me feel like a productive citizen.
Why are all these dishes in the sink ? That's crazy! Let me clean this counter up ,it'll only take 11 minutes then Im going to pay all my bills on time. Wow that was easy , now I won't worry about all that crap and I'll probably sleep like a baby tonight. I'm going to read a book for a little while then go to sleep
And here i am rawdogging the slog like a chump.
There is the question if this is caused directly by the medication, or if this is something caused by you eating better because ADHD is treated.
Yeah, could be. I eat to deal with boredom - probably a kind of ‘stimming’
It's a known effect. You have to monitor weight in children to prevent development issues due to malnutrition if you use adhd medication for kids.
I think part of it is also that occasional positive side effects are not something drug companies can advertise. They're legally obligated to talk about the negative ones.
But are they legally not allowed to talk about positive side effects?
They want to keep those under wraps so that they can repackage the drug, label it specifically for those effects, and mark it up another 5000%.
Nope, just "tar" like stool and heart palpitations
Same with tirzepatide was used for a long time on diabetes 2 patients, but they realized it affected their hunger positively so it is now used as a weight loss drug.
Cannabis is fantastic for some specific gut problems. Also some types of pain. Also nausea.
My pain doc was delighted when she found out I had all three. She said "go get stoned, never come back"
But gives you a drug addiction...
That is not how addiction works. If you would like to learn, go talk to a doctor.
Actual answer is: this does happen, but then that becomes the reason to prescribe it.
Ozempic was a diabetes medication until the weight loss and addiction effects were observed.
Finasteride was for your prostate then it also became hair loss medication
Viagra was originally meant to treat hypertension.
Viagra was a heart medication during trials, until they realized the heart benefits were minimal compared to the raging boners.
Medicine used to have those kind of side effects. It was called cocaine.
Or laudanum
So the ones with real "feel good" side effects are the ones that people have addiction problems with, and instead of indirectly giving pleasure, they give it directly. Some people enjoy while they use them and move on with life, others become obsessed with that pleasure and throw everything else away in the pusuit of it.
Viagra was not originally made for what it's mostly known for these days. Its effects on the male reproductive organ were a positive side effect.
Was here to say this. When ever they find out some unexpected benefit of a drug, they often invent a disorder and then offer up the treatment.
Things like erectile dysfunction are not really a disorder. It's normal for men to find it more difficult to get and maintain an erection as they exit their 20s. And it will keep reducing.
Imagine if 50 year old men still walked around like 15 year old boys. My gawd. The world couldn't survive.
Other drugs with invented dysfunctions.
Male pattern baldness. Again natural and normal for men.
Eye lash thickness. Yes there is a prescription drug to treat your thin eye lashes.
There is a prescription sex drug for women. And here is the best part. It just makes women relaxed and sleepy. Yeah .. so think about that.
Our society is fucked.
Natural changes as part of development being labeled as things that need treated.
Treat those wrinkles.
Treat that hair loss.
Treat those thin eye lashes
Treat that flat ass syndrome
Aging sucks though.
I mean the body pain sucks. The loss of energy. Muscle tone.
But wrinkles ? Hair loss?
Our capitalistic culture decided it needed people to pay for vanity comforts. Have made it so people are depressed about natural changes that aren't health related.
Makeup and cosmetic companies used to say you had to stay youthful and pretty or your husband would leave you for his young secretary. Now they tell you, you need lip filler and Botox at 25 "for yourself ". So you can feel good about yourself.
Bitch, please.
Propaganda to first make you feel like shit then offer you a solution that cost money.
And now we have women with swollen faces and lips everywhere, like some platypus fetish, and hair transplants look like shit once the rest of the hair thins out.
Side effect of the side effect of Viagra is blindness.
thinking with the wrong head?
Sometimes they do. Viagra was originally a heart medication that they figured out did something else.
Botox was for eye muscle disorders, now it's used cosmetically, for migraines, and a bunch of other diseases.
Apparently 20% of drugs are prescribed off-label. It's kind of an extension of "what do you call alternative medicine that works?"
Botox is the toxin in botulism that kills.
It's right there in the name!
Wait, migraines? Are you able to give me (what would technically legally be non-medical) information on that? Migraines run in my family and every family that comes into contact with my little brother. Aside from the botulism poisoning method, how does that work?
I get quarterly botox injections from my neurologist for my migraines. It's 20+ little injections in my brow, jaw, neck, and shoulders. Before insurance would allow it, we had to try all other available treatments/medications, including a monthly at-home injection you give yourself. For me, at least, it's been way better than the earlier treatments. I used to have 2-4 migraines per week at a pain around a 5 or 6 with a couple a year that would hurt more like an 8 or 9. Now I get 0-2 per week, usually no worse than a 3 on pain. It's pretty common to go a few weeks without any, then just get one a week in the last month before my next injection.
Results vary a lot, probably because there are a lot of potential causes and even how we experience our migraines can vary so significantly. Efficacy can fade with time, too. But for me, at least, it's held out for several years, and worked better than I or my doctor even expected.
It's actually a labeled use nowadays. Just Google it on a burner phone (once advertised think you have migraines you'll see nothing but migraine ads for months)
There is a positive feedback loop between psychic tension and scalp muscle tension. The more psychic tension aka stress you've got, the more migraine you'll get, if you're prone to migraine. Relaxing the scalp muscles with botox (or needles aka acupuncture or massage - botox is just far more efficient) will lead to less psychic tension will lead to less migraine.
I'm not sure whether it works in the long run if you do not work on reducing stress in other ways as well. I don't know whether there are other mechanisms, though.
Viagra also alleviates PMS. Not approved for it, even though it's prescribed for recreation to men.
How? Why? This kind of study should be trivially easy to complete. The medication is already on the market, generics are super cheap, administration is super simple and non-invasive and I'd guess there are plenty of women suffering from PMS. That sounds like the kind of study that a grad student could pull off on a DIY budget.
According to Google, generics are ~€0.50 per dose and they administered a single dose per patient. Let's say placebos cost the same as the generics, then the cost for these 25 participants was less than €15.
My only wild and reaching guess, beyond simple cruelty and hatred, is marketing was afraid of associating the drug with periods because "men would get grossed out" and potentially impact that share of the market.
Probably something like that... Sucks.
And it's kinda stupid too. PMS is well known to not be conductive to female libido, and female libido is conductive to Viagra sales. So why not sell it to women too (=more sales) which might increase the occasions to sell it to men as well.
IDK if i have a partner i want them to be comfortable. Idk whether there's just a lot of incels in powerful places or men have historically just hated the women they're with. Either way that's one reason I don't identify as a man.
I wonder if actually helpful PMS medication would cannibalize e.g. pain medication sales. Generic viagra is super cheap, and in the study they used just one dose. So if that's the actual dosage required in the end, that could cost the pharmaceuticals industry money.
Similar to with vas occlusive contraception. It's really easy, simple, dirt cheap, lasts long, is reversible, non-hormonal, no side effects male contraception. It's basically the perfect contraception and it's the only reversible long-term contraception that men can use.
But it was dropped because it would pretty much annihilate the female contraceptive industry, which makes a huge amount of money each year.
Quote from the Wiki article on RISUG, the form of Vas-occlusive contraception that came closest to getting to market:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_inhibition_of_sperm_under_guidance
Yeah i generally assume decisions like these are profit/hate driven. If you can make a market case, even mildly convincing that profits will be hit, it's going to be researched enough to get copyright and bury as long as possible.
Just can't imagine being one of those researchers(if they knew/weren't duped), board members or marketing fucks going home to someone who thinks they're loved, watching them writhe in pain, and think, "yeah I'm gonna be so rich!"
Weirdly, they administered sildanefil vaginally. You'll need a pharmacist and a laboritory to create sildenafil vaginal suppositories, so a bit above grad school level.
The reason they cite for the decline of funding - "PMS doesn't exist" - shows that the real reason is misogynistic managers.
Still something that any pharmacy can do for a low price. They only need to grind up regular sildanefil pills and put the powder into vaginal suppositories.
Our pharmacy did something similar for anal suppositories for our baby when there were covid-related shortages for ibuprofen suppositories.
I mean a fair amount of my friends had endometriosis (not sure if that's a geographic oddity or something worse) and now I'm curious if that could have (whole lot of hysterectomies in the gang) helped.
I mean if it would that's just that much more infuriating...
But I'm not that knowledgeable on the difference between the impact of a cyst and the mechanism that gives cramps. My ex had endo. Miserable experience. I wish your friends the best in managing it.
Weird, my ex had endo as well... Didn't want sex for a long time, and I was doing my best to be understanding and not pester her... Then she unexpectedly ended up in the ER with extreme pain and heavy bleeding, bad enough she was on morphine and needed a blood transfusion.... It took months, but I eventually found out she had cheated on me with our son's best friend's dad, and that apparently triggered the event. Hence why she's now my ex.
Fuck that sucks. Relatable though.
TIL 😀
Administered vaginally... "ooh I'm a bit crampy today! Time to pop a pussy pill"
Vaginal suppositories is common enough for eatrogen
Viagra will kill the shit out of you if you have a heart attack and the emergency room gives you nitroglycerin.
Well. Maybe you don't die, but it won't have the intended effect.
GLP-1 drugs were originally developed for diabetes. A side effect was weight loss.
Most drugs with fun side effects get marketed for the fun side effect.
Heroin was developed as a painkiller and cough remedy.
Nowadays it's only sold for the fun side effects.
Probably 3/4 of the people I know on GP1s are either reporting mental health/addiction benefits, or are taking it exclusively for that reason. Helped me quit weed, helping a friend of mine quit vaping right now. Shuts off my gut-wrenching anxiety. I hate jumping on bandwagons but it's a bit of a miracle drug, hopefully it doesn't cause your DNA to turn inside out after 10 years or something.
My (now ex-) wife developed diverticulitis after a few months of mounjaro... Apparently that's not uncommon...
So like, my best MD I ever had, he said "you're got symptoms A, B, and C, right? Well doctors like to treat it with G, but pill H has main effect B and side effects A and C. Only problem is doctors hate prescribing it. Let's try it!"
I miss that guy.
Bit of a toss up, but wasn't the original purpose of Viagra to treat cardiovascular issues; Side effects: extending sex lives for many partners I suppose.
Wasn't Ozempic, gpl-1 antagonist, supposed to help type 2 diabetes manage their sugar fluctuations yet had the positive side effect of lowering their appetite and now is basically being pivoted as a revolutionary weightloss drug
Because then it’s just an effect and the medication is sold as treating weight loss or memory or whatever
Yup, it starts off as an observed effect, then gets documented enough to where it shows up in studies, and then doctors are willing to prescribe it for "off label" use, then trials are run to rigorously test for that effect, until the medical health authorities agree that there's a strong enough scientific basis to use as a treatment for that condition to where it is approved for that use.
Viagra was originally for heart complications right?
Blood pressure, I think.
Pulmonary hypertension
Making everything taste like chocolate cake for a week would be a great way to make sure you never want to eat chocolate cake again.
Most migraine medications were made for something else (e.g. blood pressure), and were discovered to help with migraine symptoms in some people.
isn't viagra the same?
Then it would be the main purpose of the drug
Not necessarily... Several of the new weight loss drugs are primarily something else, and the weight loss is an "off-label" use. My (now ex-) wife was prescribed mounjaro for her type 2 diabetes, and proceeded to lose a considerable amount of weight. She wanted me to do the same, but insurance only covers the primary use, I wasn't/am not diabetic, so I'd have to pay out of pocket, and that shit is expensive.
Well that's more the insurance companies finding ways to get around paying bills, isn't it?
It is definitely that, but the justification for it is it's not the intended use of the drug.
They do, but they're legally required to tell you all of the bad effects and it's rare for the positive effects to have any importance outside the intended effects for the medication to treat a serious disease warranting the risks.
On occasion those "positive side effects" become the primary effect the drug is prescribed for.
Most famously, Viagra was not created to be a male sexual aid.
The positive effects are why they are medicine...
Entropy. There's only a few ways for things to go right and countless ways for things to go wrong. Therefore, the probability of an undesirable outcome is far higher than any desirable outcome.
I dont like the thought that everything tastes like choclate cake after taking a pill. It could lead to eating something moldy or bad without noticing
You detect moldiness with mouth?
Uhh yes?!
As a last resort, yes. What do you eat your cheese with?
Hopefully already earlier but in case i am stupid i would still like to have the eww option
Point of order can we choose a pill that is roquefort and not chocolate cake? Some of us have a little thing called the cheese sweats
(i know this is a bit random)
The cheese of the day of cheese.com is now for months stuck at reggianito so have the CotD from a chez community im in
Cheese of the day: American Cheese
American cheese, often found in households and restaurants across the United States, is a processed cheese product with a unique place in American cuisine. It has a low melting point, making it a popular choice while making various dishes.
This cheese is made from a blend of milk, milk fats, and other ingredients such as whey protein concentrate, milk protein concentrate, and preservatives.
American cheese is known for its mild, creamy taste and smooth, uniform texture. Since it melts easily, it is used in cheeseburgers, grilled cheese sandwiches, and macaroni and cheese. It is less flavourful and less natural than traditional cheeses.
https://www.cheese.com/media/img/cheese/10-American-Cheese-shutterstock_1610208106.webp
American cheese tastes like shit.
Good to know. Then i continue eating the regular european ones
American cheese is usually mild cheddar with a melting agent in it so it makes cheeseburgers easier. You don't like cheddar?
What? Like heart medicine making your erections last longer? Preposterous!
Drugs are exactly that.
They exist but they're classified as narcotics :)
What do you call ‘alternative’ medicine that’s been proven to work?
Medicine.
Desirable ‘side’ effects are just effects.
There's a blood pressure medication that has the positive side effect of treating phobias and anxieties
Nicely named lol
Sometimes they do. Case and point, viagra
Isn't the positive side effect making you feel better, or curing some negative condition?
Maybe because then the drug manufacturers will have marketed it as a miracle drug and charge your soul for it.
ADHD meds do kind of do this.
but, that isn't the side effects, it is the effect
No, change in appetite and then taste is a side effect. I like certain foods significantly more now.
There are no side effects. Only wanted and unwanted effects.
i have bad news about how we call those "unwanted effect" and as long as we agree that it is a 100% semantic argument, then I'm game to argue till the end of days
Viagra is a prime example. They were trying to treat premature ejaculation, and a side-effect was a solid, consistent boner.
And ALL those weight loss drugs started as a treatment for Diabetes, that had the side effects of losing weight.
I just saw an ad for Zepbound, one of those new weight loss drugs. My doctor prescribed one of those, but my insurance won't pay for weight loss drugs, which is common (and stupid). The new Zepbound ad claims it treats sleep apnea, and sleep apnea treatment is covered by insurance. The fact that it treats sleep apnea by helping you lose weight gets around the insurance restrictions.
Viagra was blood pressure medicine.
It also works to treat Reynauds Syndrome.
Huh. That’s interesting ….. 2 for 1 deal!
Viagra was never developed for premature ejaculation.
Side effects are just effects.
Every material we can ingest (or apply on skin, etc) will have effects
Since there are a many more ways for things to go wrong, and very few ways for something to go right, the chance that you get a "negative" side effect is higher than that it's a positive effect
There's also off-label usage for drugs where a doctor will prescribe a medication for a different effect than what is originally intended, that's basically a positive side effect.
Because they aren't side-effects then. Btw, lot's of medicaments were invented for something different than they are used now.
Because people either don't care about positive side effects, or it becomes an off-label/alternate use for the medication.
"May make you feel better" isn't the kind of side-effect that someone would typically pay very much attention to, for example, unless it was meant for them to be aware of the possibility whilst their body adjusted to the new medication, and it would go back to normal after.
What's positive is always relative.
The medication I take reduces appetite. Not hunger, just appetite. If you struggle with obesity because you eat for emotional reasons, that could be a positive for you.
But I am struggling with eating enough, so I won't get low blood sugar. And so I don't get
overweight¹. I think I ate 2 corn wafers today. 40 kcal. It's 21:02. That's not enough!Edit:
That's what drugs are for
there's a mental health medicine that's supposed to increase your pitch detection
Because they spin that off into separate drugs.
Side effects like; low interest on house loans, vigorous and intense love life, nice children, and higer paid jobs....