Alright, I'm getting shitloads of reports all over these comments, mostly people whining to mommy when people disagree with them hoping I'll ban whoever it is they don't like.
It seems like all the old talking points have been said and everyone's positions are as entrenched as they're going to get. I'm locking this; give it a rest, you lot.
Every single time someone online claims to be this or that identity from this or that country, they are doing it as a black man. You cannot trust claims online accounts make about their identity.
I don't need to trust OOP. In USians own words that they were repeating ad nauseam on Reddit for the past four years, Russians are all responsible for Putin's actions because they didn't overthrow him. Tell me why the same shouldn't apply to USians.
They said that Russians should've protested, and that would cure Putin's dictatorship. Which Russians did, culminating with Bolotnaya in 2011, after which the downturn to authoritarianism only accelerated; and particularly in east and north regions practically every year, with six months of protests sometimes.
They also said that Russians should've overthrown Putin with other means, i.e. unarmed clerks should've gone against the police, Rosgvardiya, FSB and the military.
Well let's see then how this protesting thing and overthrowing thing works out for USians, and if it doesn't then we will speak the same of them as they did about Russians. Trump is still on the throne after one year, yall seem to be slacking.
Yeah, why don't I also overthrow Trump while I'm at it, since USians seemingly can't do shit about him despite talking a lot of talk. And then overthrow Vučić and Orbán because I'm responsible for all of them, and never people of those countries themselves.
Yeah no. Talk is cheap. USians can depose Trump and show the example for all the world, or they can shut up about how they personally didn't enable Trump's regime.
This divides US individuals from their allies elsewhere. The nation has failed to represent its people. Either help us sabotage the fascist machinery now or prepare yourself for when the regime reaches your doorstep. The villains here don't respect borders except when they divide and control the rest of us. Don't help them do that.
This post essentially says "Don't tell us if you disagree with the fascists, we don't care". I don't see how any good will come from burying your head in the sand and ignoring potential allies and reinforcing in-group/out-group divisions. That actually supports their evil divide-and-conquer strategy!
The only groups that should matter here are the wealth-hoarding fascists vs everyone else in the world. They don't care what country we're from our what languages we speak or what recipes we got from our grandmothers; they ultimately want to enslave or murder us all.
Part of it, I think, is that a random person apologizing on behalf of an entire country is rather pointless. It doesn't benefit that other country at all (in a personal sense a genuine apology might provide reassurance that the apologizer doesn't intend to repeat some offense, but a person apologizing for an entire country, that they don't control, can make no such garuntee, same as apologizing on behalf of an unrepentant stranger would be pointless). The only thing it really does is make the person apologizing feel slightly better about what is going on.
If little actions like that didn't happen, the international stage would see us as a monolith all supporting Trump. Your only source of truth would be our media.
I get that sentiment, but consider: there are orders of magnitude more people in the US than Greenland. As such, if Americans go into communities for Greenland to demonstrate to them that we don't all support Trump in such a way, the result would be less a "little thing" and more the people actually using that community getting bombarded with Americans apologizing for the actions of other Americans in a space meant to be for Greenland. I'm not from there and so can't say for sure how that comes across, but I at least imagine that were I from Greenland, I'd probably find this far more annoying than reassuring.
Isnt that exactly what the post is addressing? It's something us-americans do for themselves, for their image in front of the world. It is not done for the greenlanders and therefore leaves a bitter taste.
Many of us have empathy, and feel terrible that the rest of the world has to deal with the bullshit that a third of our country and half our political system has voted for. Your comment seems to be blind to that fact.
and feel terrible that the rest of the world has to deal with the bullshit that a third of our country and half our political system has voted for
And that energy needs to be directed at reducing and preventing the bullshit. Apologizing to Greenland does nothing for the bullshit they have to deal with.
huh? that's literally not the point of apologies? they're explicitly about taking responsibility, acknowledging harm done, expressing genuine remorse and committing to real actionable change.
the issue in the OP is when people say "I'm sorry about the orange cheeto - I didn't vote for this you don't deserve to be treated this way" - this is useless and performative and serves to mostly make the person apologising feel better.
instead a real apology would take ownership and commit to action: "I'm sorry I didn't do more, and here's what I'll do going forward (mobilise, organize, agitate, etc)"
and even then it might still not make a difference and people might still hate you but we don't fight fascists to win or to feel better about ourselves but because they are fascists..
You actually think it makes them feel any better? Like they’re actually doing a narcissistic masturbation and patting themselves on the back for having done their part? THAT’S your projection of events? Jesus Christ lmao it’s a completely ordinary way of revealing to others there are citizens on their side too
You sound more irony poisoned and cynical than the fictional character you just made up
Americans are being killed in the street right now fighting back
More often than not, they're being killed on the street (or in their homes or bleeding out in hospital wards or in detention cells) without ever lifting a finger. This isn't Sparta. We're not a bunch of paramilitary guerrillas with years of experience resisting an armed occupation. The bulk of American resistance is rhetorical - protest marches, sit ins, etc - because that's what we've all been trained to believe is the most effective.
Not sure what point is being made here
That apologies fall flat when the bombs start landing. Greenland people need a real material international resistance to Trumpist Imperialism, not a Wisconsin Nice "gee golly this isn't what we wanted" letter from the well-meaning people working at the F-35 jet engine factory.
Oh, sorry if that offended the americans heros who are protesting against what they voted for. Being Canadian, knowing that makes me realize everything is ok and I will stop mentionning your country is threatening to annex mine on a daily basis because some of you don't want to too. Greenland and Venezuela should also stfu and let americans handle this like they always do, the best possible way.
Ope, can't say "I didn't vote for this" because that's an annoying cliche too. I'm guessing you helped bury those Inuit kids under that schoolyard since you're Canadian and you all think that same like all Americans do
JFK, yeah, excellent example: the whole point of the reconciliation process is recognizing that there is collective responsibility beyond individual actions.
I didn’t direct the genocide, but fucking rights I benefit as a settler, and repairing that involves both compensation and recognition of the existence of those benefits. It’s an ongoing struggle here as a lot of immature thinking still exists, crying about “it wasn’t me, stop blaming” while eating the fruits of colonialism every breathing moment.
Greenlanders don’t own land. They don’t have this individualism problem very much.
I'm all for reconciliation, and trying to make things better even if you didn't participate in the colonialism. That is a good thing to do and something I try to do on my own life.
We're not talking about that in this thread.
We're talking about collective blame for the actions of others. If your government does something that's amoral, and even if you're trying to stop it, it does it anyway, are you copable?
Reconciliation says that even if you didn't do the things, if you benefit from it, it's your responsibility to try to fix it. That's not what people are advocating for, they are gleefully saying people deserve to have a boot on their neck just because they happen to live in this country.
Doesn't matter if you're under the boot or wearing it, you're all the same so you all deserve it, right? You Canadians voted for it and allowed it to happen.
Oh wait that's a shitty take? Maybe reconsider using it on others.
Get fucked, we both know you wont be doing shit and will keep hiding behind your computer when he makes is move on Greenland and Canada. As long as Amazon will keep delivering them crap made in China, americans will be all words and no act.
Some Americans. The vast majority aren't doing anything or just complaining in the internet. A HUGE amount on the Internet have the attitude of "someone save us". Most are just sitting back waiting for the "breaking point" and others to start the action so they know it's safe to join in.
The point being made here is that having a textual emotional breakdown 'apology video' on a niche social media platform is completely fucking useless toward solving the problem, and that uselessness is so performative that it is actually insulting.
The Americans that are actually doing something about it?
Different topic.
Because they are actually doing something about it.
They're not wasting their energy writing useless and meaningless apologies, making it ultimately about how ashamed they are to be an-
Nobody fucking cares about how sorry anyone one is when the harm is ongoing and worsening.
You bringing up Americans who actually are resisting, that is a non sequitur, it is completely missing the point.
Sincerely, An American who is sick of other American's self-centered 'main character' bullshit.
It's that true, or was it just one?
It's not like there is some real resistance.
It's sort of like Russia. There is some opposition, but nobody really wants to do anything real. Just that in Russia you get sent to the gulag, in America is just so much apathy and stupidity not many even understand what's happening and had no idea what to do even if they did.
wow what an exaggaration. even though it's a terrible situation, ONE person got killed by ONE ICE-prick. people arent 'killed in the street fighting back' most of you aren't doing shit.
Renee Good was ALONE
You're correct, but in this first-past-the-post lemmy system, you're going to be downvoted to oblivion, whilst the top votes go to exactly the kind of comment the actual post rails against!
Think about how you view other countries. For example, Russian opposition doesn't change what Russia does
We actually do make that distinction between the country and the people. Just like how people can support the Iranian protests but not the Iranian leadership. I agree with the general sentiment that the posts being addressed are stupid and pointless though.
Maybe places where the government reasonably represents more than a small sliver of society aren't used to making that distinction? Not sure if how much that is the case in Denmark or perceived to be the case there. But anyone reasonably used to the government not implementing even basic policies supported by 75%+ people in the country because some lobbying group says "no" should be used to differentiating between the government and the people it rules over. Would be like blaming the people of India for all of the atrocities committed by the British Empire when they were a colony.
Depends on what you mean by 'We'. Suggesting that Putin doesn't fully reflect the Russian people gets pretty hostile responses based entirely on the logic of the original post.
All russians are orcs, all americans are seppos, etc.
"Americans should take responsibility!" But when an American takes responsibility and apologized even though that person probably voted for someone else and is doing what they can to fight back "well fuck you".
So you want some hard pills to swallow?
If you are mad at Trump, whether you're from the US or not, but bought things from Amazon, still using Twitter, still using Facebook, still buying from Nestle, still using Uber, still using Robin Hood, or any of the who knows what companies that have given Trump money, then you're compliant. Especially if you did that before the election. You helped fund this.
You think Americans should rise up in the streets? Actually get up and do something instead of apologize online? Well you know that people can do both, right? Maybe ask people how they are getting involved instead of assuming they aren't doing anything, and get, if they aren't, that might get them off of their lazy asses.
You think we should overthrow the government? Ok, where's your military? Seems like most of the world leaders are willing to take the knee and let that lunatic run rampant because they are scared of our overblown military that, frankly, most of us don't even want, so why aren't you fighting? If your fully trained, well equipped military can't handle the US, how do you expect a bunch of civilians to be able to? Where's your help if that's so easy? Sure our country is larger than most and about a third of a continent, but if it should be easy for us then it should be cake for you!
Most of us didn't vote for the guy, and he's the least popular president in history, even lower than the second least popular president, which was Jim at his last term. "Oh but a third didn't vote at all!" But you don't know why they didn't vote. Some might've been apathetic, but some might've been in our bullshit hospitals, and some might've been turned away at the polls, or maybe it's because we're working three jobs just to keep a roof over our head and enough shit food to keep from starving, who the fuck knows. Dude lost the popular vote both times but because we've got a fucked up voting system no one will change once they have won using it, he still won.
I'm not trying to be a dick here, and I know you all are frustrated because of this nut job. We are, too. The country has been taken over by oligarchs and now you care because he's threatening to invade places with white people.
But you can't tell people to have empathy and take responsibility then talk shit about them when they do. You can't have it both ways.
You can't say that it's shitty for people to paint with broad strokes and say an entire group of people is the exact same and demonize them, then do the same for an entire population of a country.
You can't say that it's entirely on Americans when you're still giving money to people backing him and aren't fighting him either.
So maybe instead of bitching about people who feel bad about something they didn't do apologizing, figure out what you might be doing that's contributing and stop it.
These comments from people saying that every single American is an evil monster because of their government are displaying the exact same hatred and ignorance that allows fascism to thrive. Which explains why far-right politicians have been gaining power all over the world. Watch your backs, people from other countries looking down their noses at the US - you're next if you don't do something about your problems at home, like you're saying Americans should do. You haven't been doing a very good job so far.
How is apologizing for something you didn't do taking responsibility? It's just irrational. Of course Greenlanders are tired of empty hypocrisy. They are scared af
I'm fucking sick of watching Americans still use these services, buy these products. It's fu king infuriating to the point where I'm saying shit to strangers outside. Stop supporting the boot on your neck!
Most Americans won't give up the slightest bit of comfort, and I'm bout to start throwing hands.
For the down voters, wah wah ur poor Amazon, lazy fucks .
A South African billionaire spent 300million to get Trump to win. An Australian media mogal has been using propaganda to brainwash Americans, and the world, for the last 30 years. All of this is being supported by a Russian dictator that has control over his puppet, not to mention his puppets in other countries.
Go on an tell me more about how this is only America fault.
Far right parties in Germany and France nearly took over their respective governments. America is just a bellwether of what is going to be commonplace in all developed liberal nations if we don't start sincerely addressing the wealth inequality.
Fascism is a natural development in liberal democracies when too much wealth is distributed to the upper class. The upper class uses their wealth as political capital to maintain the status quo that benefits them the most. To counteract leftist movements they support the far right, and before you know it there are paramilitary groups out in the streets.
This is going to happen in every country that promotes free market capitalism, starting with the countries with the least amount of social safety nets and most tax breaks for the ultra wealthy.
Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege.
How so, you ask? A cultural acceptance of hero worship, rugged capitalism, and global dominion. A lack of adequate reflexivity. Yes, it’s cultural, which puts some atom of power in every resident’s hands and mouth.
Yes, it’s cultural, which puts some atom of power in every resident’s hands and mouth.
It's not a culture war, that's just the dressing. It's a class war using nationalism and culture as a scapegoat.
There's a reason why fascism is on a drastic rise across all western democracies. The monied class across all liberal democracies have acquired enough political capital to where they've essentially taken away all options but violence, another commodity they maintain a monopoly over for now.
I'm sure your country is has a growing reactionary party riding the wave of right winged populism washing over liberalism, what are you doing about it?
Sorry, bud, the cultural issues that led us here aren’t so much about your cultural civil war that is mostly just class war in disguise. It’s a both sides problem at the heart of the empire, the one where even the poor folks are okay with 800+ bases on foreign soil, etc.
Yeah, sure, the ball is in our court. But we're playing blindfolded against a gigantic prime Roger Federer who doesn't care if he "accidentally" steps on some of us, and half of our side actually wants to see giant Roger Federer win for some reason.
I get it, empty apologies are meaningless. But posts complaining about said apologies and telling Americans "actually no, we see you all as a single mass of shit people that made your own shit bed and we want to see you sleep in it" is similarly unhelpful.
Roger Federer who doesn’t care if he “accidentally” steps on some of us
I know a lot of young Ukrainians, who moved to my country because of this fear. I can understand the fear of death, of everything being taken away. They are the nicest people, and their decision will forever haunt them.
As if those same strategies aren’t currently active in every other country in the world. They just spent more here and had a head start on the brainwashing.
or it was the opposition party putting up a shitty worthless candidate that was never going to win.
because the democratic party is total delusional when it comes to understanding the issues American face and are concerned about. the republicans aren't.
the republicans lie though. but most human beings would rather be lied to and listened to, than ignored and told to suck it up because they have it 'so good'.
You’re right, controlling how local governments elect representatives and spend money and disseminate media narratives has absolutely no outcome on general elections.
That still doesn't defeat my point because it wasn't over 50%. Even if every single American voted with the same percentages, it STILL would not be a majority of Americans that voted for him.
Thusly, to blame ALL Americans is nothing but ignorant guilt by association.
Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 and 2020 which is probably what they were thinking of. Maybe don't assume someone is a moron when they're technically correct but say it confusingly. We're all lucky our brains work at all given all the bullshit we have to keep track of related to dictator cunt known as Trump.
Americans who didn't vote for Trump are about as powerless as non-Americans who also didn't vote for Trump. If you're expecting them to commit crimes, go to jail, and lose everything they care about, then why can't they expect people from other countries do the same thing? Or better yet, why don't you immigrate and help vote for change after you get your citizenship? Why don't you lobby your own leaders for tough sanctions? Vote people in who will stand up to Trump and his garbage brigade?
I didn't even ask to be born. I didn't ask to be born here. And I didn't ask for any of the stuff that's happening. So chill?
Pushing from within alone does nothing. Finding a way to band together (in spite of our toxic individualism) and push back does everything. It's literally the only thing that will work. It's what we should have been doing all along. It's what a country does to right itself. And the fact that we can't seem to or up until this point, haven't felt the need to do it is why other countries are pissed.
To add insult to injury, they've had loads of 2nd amendment dudebros coming into comment threads every time they have a very rare mass shooting, or police violence, telling them they never should have given up their guns lest they become servile to a rogue government.
What you're saying is simply wrong. The Americans still have plenty of opportunities to resist. You could organize a general strike and paralyze the country, for example.
We can stop complaining, we can be chill. We can vote in people who will stand up to Trump and keep him away from us. But we can only keep him away from us. It's up to the American people to keep him away from you because it's not our business to stick our nose into your business. This isn't even about us, it's about you. Instead of telling us to chill you should be asking yourself why you're so chill with it. Doing nothing is still going to lead to something and that something is only getting worse.
We don't like what your country is doing but when it eventually gets resolved and there is a world left standing our lives will be fine. You will be the ones who have to continue putting up with this shit.
Yeah, we know. And we're not chill. And we're taking action. The people who are reading this comment are not your target audience. You're preaching to the choir.
The target audience is not the activists who are already doing what we ask, yes we know, but you are missing that we are seeing a lot of posts disavowing any responsibility, which indicates a deep cultural flaw of individualism and American Exceptionalism, and yeah it bears repeating as the psychological resistance to that message is fierce.
I don't think the person I replied to is interested in taking action, which is why I commented in the first place. People like him need to be told that there's no sitting out this one. If you do nothing then it's only going to get worse.
If they can vote him out, yes. If they can't then I think they should forcibly remove him. It's the Russian people who are suffering from his stupid war, not him.
I don't have any naivety about the state of the political landscape of Russia. Voting out Putin would be correct way to do things but more realistically he would need to be toppled for there to be change. But that's because all non-violent avenues have been cut off. I don't think waiting for his death is the answer because his death will also create a power vacuum and instability and most likely in that case he'll just be replaced by another autocrat.
Bringing that point back to America, I think there's still a chance for America to course correct without resorting to violence, but that requires the American people to start pressuring the administration right now. The more they wait the more they become like Russia, where eventually all the way to get rid of the autocrat without violence have been dismantled. And much like in Russia, waiting for Trump to die isn't going to solve anything because the Republican party will just find someone to replace him.
Why would people who had no choice about where we're born and who have opposed MAGA from the beginning need to "take responsibility" for what's happening right now? I don't know what country you live in but I'm guessing you don't take responsibility for everything its government does, and if you do, you're crazy.
When they ask Russians what they think about their country bombing kindergartens, they say they aren't into politics. That's you.
People in my country go to the streets. They strike, they burn a few cars if needed. America just sinks lower and lower into a dystopian horror and people do less and less.
It looks pretty bleak.
I bet if midterms go bad for Trump, he will claim they are fraudulent and cancel the results. And nobody will do anything about it but complain online, the late night comedians will do they bits, a lot of videos with all caps about how someone DESTROYED trump in their speech. And that will be that. If he even loses lol, he might still win, a lot of people are cool with this.
That's how I see America. And most people I talk to here.
I notice that doesn’t say I. And the vast majority of people talking a big game wouldn’t dare do any of that shit in America, because our cops have guns and our prison system is so notorious for inmate rape that it’s a punchline.
If you absolutely would do that shit in America, buy a plane ticket since it’s so easy to get done.
I'm trans I barely get treated like a person and have my options severely limited. Don't give me that shit about how every American is responsible when we tried to tell people and got ridiculed and called slurs for it and got rape threats. Kiss my ass.
y'all realize that all these posts do is echo divisional language, right?
like, it's literally saying "you're part of the problem because you live there". the same could be said about literally anything.
Denmark's ineptitude and unwillingness to fight Russia is the reason why they were allowed to invade Ukraine and they are responsible for the thousands of deaths of Ukrainians. Every citizen of Denmark has their hands stained in Ukrainian blood because of their inaction to force their government to intervene. it's your fault that Putin is brazen enough to invade sovereign nations and you only attempt to garner sympathy when the US tries to do the same to you in Greenland.
see? not even difficult to twist words around and divide us. it's all a mechanic to make us weaker, it's actually exactly what Trump is doing by pulling the US out of agreements and support systems. they want to make us all weaker by dividing us.
don't listen to users who use divisional language when it comes to world politics, it only serves to further the fascist agenda.
The entire thing is blaming the victim. As if people suffering under Trump are somehow complicit in their own suffering and they should just overthrow him violently.
It's typical armchair revolutionary nonsense, people who post this crap and want to blame everyone else, which is very easy to do in an online echochamber full of ignorant people who are just venting their angst.
As a Canadian who is under direct economic and now physical threat by magapolitik: yes and no.
The entire thing is NOT victim blaming. If two thirds of the electorate supported the fascists, the remaining third is both victim and responsible, and the ONLY way to fix this problem at the moment is for that demographic to recognize it, despite the education system and popular culture suppressing nuance in thinking.
So often, the apologies or calls for sympathy are founded in a deep individualism and shallow civic duty. Yeah, it’s your neighbours who are the soil that grows fascism. You have to fix it at the root: education, civic development, secularism, humanism, community, collective action. You have to heal rifts of creed and work hard to eliminate racism, and realize that the endgame of capitalism is always oligarchy and imperialism.
So yeah ‘fix your shit’ applies when we feel like “service neighbours” for your absolution, as we are not going to make you feel better when we are stressed by your collective existential threats and you are showing a distinct lack of responsibility.
On the other hand I know of lots of folks who are already preparing to support refugees, particularly trans etc., so we are being practical here about the active victim situation, not just keyboarding.
The electoral college system in America means that a certain number of electors are assigned per state. Most states electors are assigned on a winner takes all basis. For instance even in deep red Texas he only got 56% of the vote but was assigned ALL Texas's electors just like Harris received all California's electors. Electors are assigned by state not by population so you could theoretically win with as little as 1/3 of the vote.
We cannot basically ever change this via normal political process because the Southern traitors would lose votes and amending our constitution requires overwhelming not majority support.
There are approx 338M people in the US. Approx 85 M didn't get to vote because they were under 18 in November of 2024. Of the remaining 253M 77M voted for Trump 75 for Harris and 100M didn't vote.
Many of those who didn't vote lived in districts and states that were already decided in which those residents had no voice because of our broken system. A system that now endangers us and the world.
If you poll people the percentate that actually support Trump and his policies isn't the percentage of the vote he received, 48%, its 39%
You said 2/3 but its a hell of a lot closer to a third.
You assert that if the missing 100 million showed up it would make no difference in the outcome, so they were not showing tacit support? I remain unconvinced.
No. I'm saying that many not all were effectively disenfranchised by a system that would effectively give their votes to the opposing side no matter how they voted. For example blue voters in Texas.
You asserted that American's were collectively complicit because 2/3 voted for him. This isn't true. 48% voted for him. Voter turnout was furthermore suppressed by a system in which blue voters in red districts/states have no hope of representation. The actual support for Trump is actually only 39% of Americans.
No, I know you are trying to argue in good faith, but I asserted that 2/3 supported, which includes not voting, regardless of defeatism. If the vast majority voted in opposition but still failed, there would be much more impetus for electoral reform, for example.
Failure to actively oppose at the polls is tacit support, even if it’s negligent. Disenfranchised votes are worth struggle.
Failure to actively oppose at the polls is tacit support,
25% of the population were under 18 during the election they cannot be said to tacitly support trump.
22% of people voted directly for Harris they directly opposed trump.
This alone is 47% of the population! This alone disproves your 2/3 narrative!
30% of the pop by not voting did not cast a tacit vote for Trump. Few countries have 100% voter turnout in any free country. A sane mathematical treatment of the situation is to assume that a sufficiently large sample is representative OR to ask people.
If 48% of voters voted for Trump we assume 48% of those who were adults in 2024 are responsible or 36% or we can ask people if they support Trump and we get 39%.
I'm one of the ones who did vote against him but I live in Los Angeles. In LA County, 2.4 million voted for Harris, 1.2 million voted for Trump, and 1.9 million didn't vote. (45 thousand voted for RFK, Stein or other fringe candidates.)
A million of those non-voters could have all voted one way, EITHER way, without changing the results. So what "tacit support" are you talking about?
The entirety of California'e electoral votes went to Harris. But the electoral college is unbalanced,
so our candidate got 9 fewer electoral votes than she would have if it were fair. And even if all 1.9 million Los Angeles non-voters had voted for her it wouldn't have changed a thing.
Should they have voted anyway? Yes, if only because of the local elections and propositions they could have had a voice in.
And California is one of the easiest, most vote-supportive states, which mails a vote-by-mail ballot and supplemental information packets to every registered voter.
But if someone didn't, I'm not going to ascribe some kind of blame or "tacit support" label to them instead of hearing their individual situation.
the solutions you are suggesting will take 50+ years to develop. and nobody is interested in investing them, democrat or republican. there is no political platform for any of that in the USA.
You basically are suggesting we be entirely different than we are. it's not possible. everyone is going the opposite way. most 'leftists' in american are actively embracing racism just like the far right.
also you canadians have a lot of the same root problems as americans. cost of COL is through the roof, you refuse to reform immigration, and you are increasingly polarized, and deinvesting in helathcare and education. you're just a decade or two behind. I lived in canada for 3 years. It was very much America in the 90s. things are better generally, but nobody is addressing any of the real problems and the citizen themselves don't want to do it because it would be too painful.
I mean lecture every american all you want, it's not going to change the facts on the ground. the notion of some sort of deep common humanism doesn't exist anymore in our politics and it hasn't since the 1960s.
a few years nothing will change. the democrats don't do anything, they just kick the can down the road and pretend it's fine. all they are is more polite than the republicans. maybe you don't remember recently history but Biden and Obama admins did nothign to address serious problems. they just threw a couple of bandaids on our bleeding wounds and called it a day.
it's not pessimism, it's understanding how people work.
The funny thing about leftist/progressive agenda is... everyone is for it, until it impacts them personally. Everyone wants more housing, more immigration, more education.... until its in their town and their tax bill goes up. Then all the sudden they are VERY opposed to these things.
My own very blue city just had lots of tax rates go up. All the sudden our very popular progressive major is getting a lot less popular... and her progressive plans to expand and fund new things is now being cut back...
weird how that works, right? it's almost as if people don't want the things they say they want...
everyone's idealism disappears when the bills come due and the cold hard facts of finite resources and infinite demand slap them in the face.
Yeah, I came here to say something like this. The writer of the post has just as much power to effect change as the average American does. Why aren't they doing something about it? Oh right, because they fucking can't. This language serves no purpose but to attempt to divide and inflame.
"think about how you view other countries, for example Russia"
Okay, I do not at all in any way think about the average Russian citizen the way people on this fucking site seem to think about the average American citizen. The idea that I would demand those innocent people essentially commit suicide through armed conflict is demented, yet there's no such qualms about Americans.
All that being said though, I have to agree, going to random communities and saying you're sorry is useless. It only serves to make you feel slightly better and does nothing to actually help the situation, akin to wishing thoughts and prayers.
I mean, cmon. Every country can become like this, no people are special. Hating people for not instantly becoming martyrs by committing terrorism in their own country is a bit dumb.
We have to nudge them a bit, fund resistances, saboteurs, maybe an outside intervention. Civilians are just civilians.
This is how we get countries cut off from the world, who become eternal reprobates, and we never have good relations with them again.
Oh look, a post which has no informational content and who's only possible outcome is to create division amongst the civilian populations of two allied countries.
Oh look, it is posted by an account who has a perfectly normal comment history but a strange affinity for posting content which creates a comment section full of divisive conversations between:
Greenland and US Citizens (This thread, Again here, )
I’ll post here what I’ve posted elsewhere with addition comments sprinkled in.
This is what bothers me the most about folks, usually from an EU country, telling Americans we should just oust our shithead president through national strikes or violence and complain that we aren’t doing anything. The US is huge, what works in smaller European countries is vastly more difficult and expensive to organize and execute in the US. Those tactics do work here, but mostly at the local and state level which is akin to how they work in most EU countries when you adjust for population and size. At this level there is just not much an individual or relatively small group can do. Even if my entire city and the surrounding area rose up together (which it wouldn’t since it’s politically mixed) it would have little to no impact. A million or two people just isn’t that much in a nation as large and diverse as the US. The entirety of California or Texas couldn’t appreciably move the needle in all reality and they are massive, wealthy states.
The US General Strike movement estimates that we would need just 3.5% of the US adult population to strike to see any results, that is over 10.5 million people, and they have less than half a million signed up. To put that in perspective, that’s more than the entire population of Greece, Austria, or Sweden needed to make an impact, and even well resourced and organized they are barely moving the needle due mostly to the sheer size of the country. None of those countries can get their entire population to agree on something though, so it’s not really surprising the US hasn’t been able to get that many people to agree either.
In addition, the risks are enormous to everyday people when there isn’t an organization to back their movement. I still need to eat, put a roof over mine and my families head, and generally exist in this world. I applaud those that have the means, drive, or mindset to just take direct action but the vast majority do not. Going out half cocked, guns blazing though also doesn’t accomplish anything and just gives more media ammo to the current regime to oppress rights further. Until we can find our MLK to lead a movement against this oppression though, it’s unlikely that resistance will accomplish much visibly.
I think it would be a fantastic idea for Europeans, and the rest of the world, to start actually considering what a violent, imperialist US means to their normal day-to-day and how they can best prepare to defend against it. I, and all those I choose to surround myself with, hate what our government is doing. We voted against it, give money and time to causes against it and to try to reduce harm where we can and help those impacted by it. Many of us would leave if we had the means to, but the reality is that leaving has its own risks, is surprisingly difficult and expensive, doesn’t guarantee where we end up will ultimately be better, and removes our ability to do anything here. Like most of life, reality is complex and messy, I just wish everyone could keep that in mind when condemning all Americans for the actions our government is taking.
That all said, Americans are doing something, not enough, and not quickly, but protests are nearly constant in various parts of the country. Congress is rebuking nearly all of the big budget cuts Trump wanted, and more right leaning lawmakers are starting to stand up against the regime. Again, it’s not enough, but it isn’t silence like is often asserted here and elsewhere.
In short, I am not my country, and while I fully accept that the world hates the US right now (and they should), personally hating every individual American and blaming us as specifically responsible is ignorant and inflammatory. It doesn’t help and just serves to depress and discourage action by those of us who do not support the actions of our government and are trying to help in the ways that we can.
During the Civil War we were less than half our current size. Maybe even a third the size. I can find maps that show our size but none that actual say what our land area was. I could calculate it, but I'm not. Also, we had about 10% of our current population.
Either way, I don't know what counts as huge. Even back then we still stretched from Maine to Florida to Texas, which is over 2500 miles at its longest. That's still pretty damn big. Still bigger than any country in Europe minus Russia.
January 6th only took place because the sitting president told his supporters to storm the capitol and said he'd back them. There are Americans who are fighting what's happening here and want to do more, but we are so disenfranchised disorganized that we really don't have a lot of options other than getting ourselves killed or imprisoned without changing anything.
Democrats are equivalent to most center-right parties in Europe. They have historically and continue to pay lip-service to left-leaning causes while quietly backing whatever the fascists want. Those of us who want to change things have no locus of power behind which to organize.
And re: The Civil War, it was a much smaller country then, and each side in the conflict was backed by elites with power and organizational capacity.
Billionaires also footed the bill to organize and bus in the J6 insurrection crowd. There was also a bunch of planning to mitigate normal security measures. And it still didn't work!
Are people really so out of touch that they think a few random people in Washington DC were able to try that on a whim?
"Hey guys just so you know, showing empathy is stupid virtue signaling. Remember when you catch yourself blaming Russians for Putin's actions and realize it is wrong to do that? Actually you need to ignore that feeling -- it's justified. Blame all the Russians. Even though you feel utterly crushed and powerless right now, um, do something about it. Sure, that's a billion times easier to say than both do and succeed at, but that's your problem. Maybe try fucking yourself? I dunno just be better or something."
Apologizing & explaining themselves to Greenlanders, though, is a bit extra beyond "showing empathy".
It's neediness seeking comfort, consolation, & validation.
Expecting the people of Greenland to also dote on & assuage the guilt of those whose government is threatening them is a bit much.
I mean... most of the american left... are like this. It's most about feelings. They have no real coherent politican platform. They think sitting around feeling bad is the same as having a policy or a platform.
If you put forth any course of actionable discourse, they basically tell you you're an asshole because you are making them feel bad. I used be 'involved' and I gave up because all anyone wanted to do was sit around and jerk themselves off about their feelings and suggesting any action beyond interent memes was considered 'oppressive'.
the problem is if you do have empathy for people, everyone will hate you for it because it won't be for the people they like in particular.
i have empathy for every american, but if i say that to other americans they tell me i'm a facist/racist/bigot for not wanting to kill and murder people who voted republican. the hatred is from both sides towards each other is insane and anyone who tries to rise above it is just accused of being on the 'other side'.
and fwiw most of my threats come from progressive leftists, whom i vote for. they often hate their own supporters and wonder why more people aren't progressive... because you drive them away with your hateful and angry rhetoric that you falsely being is 'better' than the angry and hateful rhetoric of 'facists' you so despise.
I don't see why you would get downvoted here except if it's by people who know they do exactly what you're complaining about... I get where you're coming from. Although I question your use of quotes on fascists. They are indeed fascists. Doesn't mean they all deserve to die though.
that to lemmy users who send me violent hateful messages and replies for daring to have a mildly different political opinion than them.
lots and lots of users here are totally OK with violence against anyone they disagree with, and are 100% against it when it's against the people they do agree with. Funny how that attitude works... it's only 'wrong' if it's against someone you don't like.
Yeah. I think violence should be avoided at all costs, but there are some people alive right now who won't respond to anything else. They're definitely in the vast minority though.
There are good people and bad people in every country. Yes, the US government is bad. Yes, the Russian government is bad. That does not mean every person in those countries are also bad.
There are people in Russia trying their best to resist Putin. People risk their lives doing that and people have died doing that.
There are also people here in the US doing their best to resist fascism. Here too, people have died doing that.
It is unreasonable to expect every American to oppose fascism, just like it is unreasonable to expect that of every Greenlander. Remember there is a small percentage of Greenlanders who do support Trump.
Opposing fascism is difficult, dangerous, and slow. It takes a long time for change to happen. Think about all the bad governments out there. I'm sure that for each one you can find resistance to them that has been around for a long time.
So if the situation was flipped, would you want us to make a post complaining about Greenlanders apologizing?
I think you're focusing a bit to much on the last paragraph.
In context of the first few paragraphs I think it's clear that they don't mean individual Americans are not doing enough, but instead the political opposition is not percieved as much.
And I think assume you would agree the Democratic party as a whole is too complicit.
Meh, most of rest of the world are also supporting this regime by still trading with the US, using their services, investing in their companies, and buying their debt. None of what's happening would be possible without the world's support.
Dear Muslims -- To us, your region in the middle east is a single entity on the world stage, and you've all attacked us on 9/11. Think about how you view other countries, as infidels. For example, Israeli opposition doesn't change what Israel does, because that's their politics. The same applies to all Muslims, except you have the power to choose whether or not Osama Bin Laden organizes terrorist attacks.
See how stupid this sounds? I'm not going to the Greenland subreddit and apologizing, but I am certainly not at fault for this shit.
No it is not. It is how the media portrays West Asia, but most people do not view it that way. If you believe that then you are falling for media manipulation just as much as you say Americans are.
I'm not the same person, but this assumes he didn't cheat. Which in the past, he claimed he would and there are odd discrepancies. Not saying for sure it happened, but I would believe it if it came out that it did.
Also, you aren't going to win any arguments calling people dumb. It just makes YOU look bad.
Too many ignorant fucks like you here. You are contributing to the problems that keep humanity divided. How do you feel knowing you're no better than a screeching Republican whining about what Europe is doing?
I was attempting to continue the thread, but you got upset and derailed it. Again, being rude doesn't make you any more right. My other comment was about painting with a broad brush. I'm not sure you understood what I was trying to say. If you did, you might not be so emotional.
77 million Americans is not the same as all Americans. Prior poster was dumb for saying Trump lost the popular vote in '24, but that still leaves 75 million people who actively voted against this and many more who voted 3rd party in states where the conclusion was pre-determined anyway (if you don't know what I'm talking about, read this).
Further, you need to understand that the US doesn't have legitimate left-wing political organization. The Democrats are more or less equivalent to most center-right parties in Europe (in action, if not in rhetoric) and The Republicans are the extreme right-wing. Actual leftists in the US are completely disenfranchised, constantly demonized in the public sphere, and ostracized by most of "polite" society. People who would be members of a leftist party if they lived in another country are mostly propagandized or demoralized into supporting the Democrats, who again, are a center-right party. This is a problem that predates Trump, so we don't even have a recent history of being able to effectively organize, win elections, or make our demands heard.
But also not correct? I don't think everyone assumes all Russians are dicks. A proper assumption would be that most of them are cool but their government sucks dicks.
"just think of how you view other countries". Yea, I AM thinking like that. I don't blame all Russians for Putin's war on Ukraine. I don't blame ALL Chinese for what the CCP does. I don't blame ALL North Koreans for suffering under Kim...
This is absolute insanity to accept the ignorant position as the correct position... The world is insane, because it's full of idiots like this that cannot think past the most basic reactionary BS.
If ya'll think you're better than the US, stop acting like reactionary fools.
No usian thinks "I'm sorry" is enough. It's just a thing to let the world know we are not all crazy. Liberals are continually in shock that the orange child is doing what he said he would do. And some things no one thought he would do. Conservatives continue getting orange dust on their lips. It's going to be a long fall for the U.S. and I'm afraid this stupid ridiculous Greenland situation will not even be in news in a few months(no matter how it turns out) as things get even stupider and more rediculous. Many more deaths in the U.S. More democratic institutions destroyed. Laws subverted in response to the backlash.
This really sucks for you. It's going to suck for everyone.
Just hoping obese shithole has a heart attack asap.
Millions voted for the guy. Why? Because they were manipulated by billionaires using fear and hate media to win an election. You can be mad at the uneducated all you want, but the real fault lies with evil billionaire greed.
Brother, who do you think is responsible for their lack of education? Republicans who are funded by evil billionaires. I swear your next comment is going to be, "They just have to pull themselves up by the bootstraps." Not everyone has access to food let alone education. The privilege on this guy.
We are all responsible for our own actions. Allowing yourself to be fooled by propaganda is your fault, not anyone else's.
None of this changes until Americans collectively decide to change it and comments like yours only make people feel comfortable with the idea that they can't do anything to change it.
No. You are wrong. Of course we are responsible for our own actions. Pretending like the massive amount of propaganda that sways people's views while their education is being taken from them by the same people is ignorant. You are so convinced that they are wrong, and you are right. Why are you so sure that you haven't been controlled by media for your views? Do you blame North Koreans for being born in North Korea?
Nothing at all. You're a perfect little angel who is totally blameless. There's nothing more you could have done or could be doing now to impact the situation even one bit.
I asbolutely do have some nuance for Russians. I am friends with many of them and realize they are powerless to topple the government because I'm not 14
I see all your posts. And I understand that the government does not speak for yourself. I have compassion for your situation, of course. But, truly, your "I am sorry" really is useless. Please don't go thinking that your "I am sorry" message is enough. That you are doing something. That message is akin to doing nothing. Hopefully, you are doing more than that.
And also, dear Americans, whatever it is you are doing, you could be doing more.
I am doing my part by shunning my family who still support him. But it's hard when for some reason my family (mother) wants to ignore that fact and not shun them so instead I am the one who is shunned and the outcast for not wanting to associate with the trumpers. The trumpets keep the family life and get to be prices of shit.
I mean there are people that would blame me for the CCP's actions just because I was born there... so... like...
lol
Now I guess I get double the blame for my family leaving China and now we have US Citizenship and voted blue every time 🙃, even tho like its really cis-het christian rich white men that controls all the media, and with that control, they have a huge sway over any "elections", not to mention, political parties have control of how the presidential primaries are run...
But sure, blame the civillians instead of those in power...
I mean, I get it... it's frustrating times and emotions are intense, but like... really? Lol
Thinkers who are unafraid to say the unorthodox like Slavoj Zizek are correct. People wanted drastic change away from neoliberal politics, and they got exactly what they wanted, but they don't like the results. Although to be fair, the Democrats has been blocking progressives from being a viable and effective alternative against fascists. The Democratic party would rather lose democracy than lose their economic privileges. I don't really look up to Noam Chomsky anymore but he said along the lines that the American institution was explicitly founded to protect the capital and keep the ordinary people as far away as possible from actual decision making. I didn't consider that position until we got to where we are now. Both parties' first and foremost priority is to protect the wealthy and powerful. Yes, I know the Democrats are still the lesser evil, but they act as good cop pig while the Republicans act as bad cop pig. And we all know what we say about cops, they are there to protect the capital first, not the people, no matter if they are good or bad.
As an Spanish citizen I understand the reaction. We had the same problem with Aznar. More than half of the people hated him (some of us still do 10 years later, me included) but he threw us into the GW2 that, as "a present" gave us the biggest terrorist attack in Spain.
I don’t agree with this sentiment in principle, but I do sympathize.
Y’all have to hear about our bullshit all the time and the little online apology tours some of us do will not move the needle. Sometimes we just gotta read the room and stfu until we have something good to bring to the table.
Doing what I can. There are many problems. Trying to use whatever white privilege I have to protect (literally) my neighbors from ICE - they're carrying their passports around the neighborhood on walks now, so they can't exactly go protest and tell ICE to fuck themselves. Trying to use my skills to organize, I started a network of queer men in my very Southern state so we have a place to be, to be safe, to organize. Trying to use my ability to mentor to help trans people do the same. I don't know what I'm supposed to do about Trump and Greenland. Europe you need to step it up a bit here, wringing your hands about "not wanting to escalate" with Trump is not going to save anyone. Use that trade bazooka. Use whatever you have. We are all in this, we will all suffer in what's to come.
I have asked every maga I know if they are signing up for the Trump wars and sending them Army, Navy, and marine sign up paper work. There’s not much I can do besides vote. I keep telling everyone this. That I guarantee like I do every year. That I will vote. But that is all I can do to stop this madness. Sure I can speak out and march. But it comes down to voting this fall.
This is what trump does. He divides. My honest reaction to reading this "man fuck this asshole". But they're right. We need to burn this system and administration to the fucking ground. Age limit on president at 60-65, no billionare presidents, put the racist fascist fucks back in their place, charge and convict every single complicit cunt in this regime. Tear down and burn every single thing trump has put in place. Nobody gives a fuck if you apologize to foreigners on trumps behalf. You wanna do something? Vote. If you live in a city where ice is present then get out there and record, take pictures, blow whistles and horns. Talk to the next Gen voters, teens and young adults, advocate and teach for what is right.
The regime wants us to hate each other so we aren’t hating them.
Why give them what they want? The average American has no interest in Greenland. A lot of Donald’s actions are unpopular, even with many of his supporters.
We should all unite against fascism everywhere. Fascists are the enemy. Thats our best chance at stopping them.
This person is likely not from Greenland. There are only ~40k people in Greenland and only 10-15% of the population have working English, although more can understand it. Thats 6k people that could have crafted that message, and of that we can assume that only a minority would use reddit. That leaves maybe a couple thousand people.
I'm not saying it couldn't be a Greenlander, but the odds are much higher that this is just a random person from Europe, or even an angry American.
It's not pointless. If you had half a fucking brain, you'd realize your bigotry means that not only are you wrong on a factual basis, but you're a hateful moron, too.
The "while you still can" is the key here. America is a young country that hasn't had to go through a dictatorship. That's exactly what it's happening to them now and they fail to defuse it while it is possible they will go through a regime for the next 20-20. Because if something has taught us history is that no dictator has ever given up on power.
A large percentage of our population has been under dictatorship-like oppression for most/all of our history, including racial minorities, indigenous people, sexual minorities, and pretty much anyone who expresses a view to the left of, say, the CDU in Germany.
You, frankly, don't know what you're talking about.
America is not a young country it has 250 years of continuous legal operation including surviving a civil war and having multiple presidents who have wielded similar authoritarian powers as Trump, but very few people can keep track of that because it’s such an old country and nobody knows history
We’ve had elections through every single war and cycle of corruption for 250 years so if history has taught us anything it’s that we are most likely going to see Trump and co voted out
Look around and find another country that's younger. Germany is the only one and they've been neighbors who take each other's side in fights for a few hundred before then so it's basically a united front.
A lot of people skimming over Russia and China as well as various BRIC countries have been working to ensure the man got into office in the first place then sow division to make it harder to stop him. Why aren't people going after those enablers who have all but said they want to destroy various alliances and become de facto leaders?
Let's keep in mind how that society is geared: everyone is an asset to be exploited yet everyone person is out for themselves.
Even if someone does not see themselves as individualist, the mindset is there. And (trying to) apologize comes as a natural option: "I did not do it; don't take it on me. Blame someone else."
Americans need to make something for themselves. And I don't mean by taking up guns and go to the streets.
Oust politians. Pressure all levels of government. Make the country, on all levels, ingovernable. Break the system.
That's not possible. That's what you don't get. In your head it is 'so easy' but get some real world experience in politics and governing and you'll realize how intractable it all is.
The system is entrenched with lazy ignorant people on all levels. The voters, the politicians, the admins, the campaign finance system, etc. Nobody cares about principals or good governance... they just all want to get rich.
I've worked in local government and I have a sister who is a mayor of a small town.
Do you know what the #1 all people want is? More services, but fewer taxes. They want roads fixed, lots of police, schools etc, but they refuse to pay for any of it. nad if you explain to them that's now not how it works, the tell you to go f yourself and no govt job should get any pay and it's all corrupt and horrible. then they run for office, and the first thing they do is raise their own salary and give their kids/friends jobs and become the very thing they complain about.
You can't oust human hypocrisy, greed, and corruption. It's endemic. Very few people are 'good'. most are entirely self-interested. there are no philosopher kings in the real world. just corrupt assholes, some of who are smart enough to not be comically corrupt and game the system without consequences.
the only ones who get ousted are the comic book villian levels of corruption. everyone else is happy with moderate corruption especially the voters.
Can I take your reply for future reference? Because I have the same small government/lower taxes platform gainning traction around my parts.
I respect your take. Is it easy? No. Granted. But what is the option? Civil war? It's not. It is the last, direst option to be taken.
Aren't civil movements a thing? Citizen groups for running to political office?
And if people want more, they have to understand they either have to pay for it (Taxes! The price of civilization!) or they need to come up with a solution.
We take critics from who do it better, not from those that say they know it better.
I don't there is any options. People don't want to cooperate. They don't have any common sense of belonging anymore. Everything is us vs them.
Whenever you try to utter and common humanity or vision, people just blame you for being the opposite side. They refuse to see any common humanity in their political opponents.
It was quite the eye opening. Broke more than a few thought and reasoning barriers for me. Hope it can do the same for you.
I understand what you are saying. It's the exact same modus operandi. They all read from the same book. I'm expecting my country to take a hard right in three years, with the next electoral cycle.
I respect every single word you are saying but you have to do something. Again, resorting to guns and violence will be even worst.
I can't believe I'm saying what I'm thinking but you need to start from the bottom and start disregarding popular demands and instead enact forceful change, even if it hurts. Get organized to take strategic places without resorting to force and then just do things that actually do better, for all.
I'd start now, going from street to street, making a list of what is wrong, broken or failling and start budgeting. Make people wonder what I'm doing and talk with them. Never asking for support. Just making myself be seen.
You do something. Stop being a coward and demand other people do things for you. All you are doing is jerking yourself off in your head.
What you don't get is when you do those things, you invite violence and hatred into your life. You go start ''talks with them" and see how you much you enjoy it when people are calling for you to be beaten up or killed because they don't like the color of your skin or what's between your legs.
Would I do something if I was there? Yes, I would. I find no satisfaction in seeing people die because of their skin colour, their ethnicity, their gender or sexual preference, their beliefs or lack of or for what they think and take as better for all.
If it is not for you, americans, living in your country, to put everything at stake to change something, anything, no one will. And if someone decides to do so, then it will not be to defend the people.
My country took down a fascist regime 50 ago. One of my grandfathers was part of the political police then. I know the kind of people that gets recruited to such organizations. I know how those people think about themselves or others. I don't want to see anyone go through that, ever again. Anywhere.
We are human beings, not cattle, not numbers on a spreadsheet or a name on a piece of paper to be crossed out.
People have died, are dying and will die until your people, your country, decides it is enough and ends the madness that as taken over. And that may call and cause even more loss of human lives. But you are not slaves.
Trump is the democratically elected leader of America, backed by their democratically elected legislative bodies. The country has multiple safeguards and systems by which he can be removed from power or by which his authority could be curtailed. They have not been used. America has the most heavily armed citizenry on earth.
He is, quite literally, the legitimate leader of American.
This is not a "Trump problem" it's an America problem. It doesn't vanish when he's gone and your apologies don't matter.
America is the worst democracy in the west, even before Trump.
He proved those "safeguards" don't fucking work, and he LOST the popular vote both times.
So if you think the US should've been immune to this, you're only demonstrating how absolutely ignorant you are on how the system actually works.
Y'know, the system designed by America's original oligarchs, that only wanted land owners to have the right to vote, didn't care about women's rights, and were fine with carrying on with slavery... It was specifically designed to subvert the will of the masses, and that's exactly what it's done.
But the people who run them don't want them to work. We (the people you're blaming in these comments) don't have the power to impeach, or invoke the 25th Amendment. And many on the left are thoroughly anti-gun and thus don't own any. We are resisting, but you seem to think we can just march into DC and shoot all the Nazis - problem solved. It doesn't work like that.
This is the result of your votes. Every person in the legislature bodies and oval office won their elections. The safeguards don't work when the situation is what the voters asked for.
Tell me what I, personally, should be doing right now that I'm not doing. And don't list anything that you wouldn't be willing to do in the same situation.
He won 49.8% of the popular vote of those who voted. That's not a majority.
"When the people who run them want them to work"
Yes, exactly. Now, who runs those safeguards? Is it every single American? Or a few rich pieces of shit Americans have been complaining about for decades?
Also how did that impeachment safeguard work? Oh what's that, it didn't? How about the electoral college, who's ONE JOB is to keep unqualified people out of office even if they're popular? What's that, they voted him in anyways? Your position is still one of ignorance.
Which was more votes than the other person got, which is what "winning the popular vote" literally means.
NO safeguard in any democracy is intended to invalidate a vote of the people. This is what you guys wanted and its what you got. You can't remove him because most of you STILL want him.
Trump won the election in 2016 by the stated rules of that election. I get that you don't like those rules, but you have had nearly 300 years to change them and didn't.
Ahh yes, I've been alive for 300 years, and there totally hasn't been a constant pressure from people with FAR more resources than 99% of Americans to make things worse, but you go off on how your foolish bigotry is suddenly correct!
The most American comment section. A bunch of white liberals getting defensive about how they can’t possibly do more and whining about their good intentions- anything to avoid shutting the fuck up and hearing what the rest of the world is telling them. Same as it ever was, and the reason they find themselves where they are in 2026.
Reddit being reddit. Let's leave that over there where it belongs. If you agree or disagree with the redditor, type your own post with your own spin on their take.
Actually trying to get rid of the orange child rapist takes actual effort. And by looking at the laughable protests about the obese paedo shows putting any effort in just won't happen.
However posting up a quick sorry message can be done from the comfort of their sofa. Less effort and they feel all warm and fuzzy about it whilst -yet again- doing fuck all about the dementia riddled corrupt kiddie fiddler.
Well, he still has a lot of support from everyday USAian people (42% at time of post) and there’s even more who are just silently going with the flow (so much for all the “freedumb” bald eagle posturing). He’s only 8.5 points less popular than Obama.
But more importantly, congress and senate are jerking off their corporate sponsors, and the corporate sponsors are blowing Trump with gold statuettes. These are the duly elected representatives of the People.
Downvote me all you want, but numerically, it is all Americans. Until there’s a revolt. It was “all Germans” too. Y’all are too chickenshit to react.
All-or-nothing thinking is part of what got you folks into this mess. If the problem is not purely political but also cultural, you can both be responsible, and actively trying to fix it.
Just what the fuck do you expect most of us to do?
Build local antifascist institutions and cultural reform by talking to each other about it. Call out jingoistic individualism. Participate in walking away from oligarch capital at every opportunity possible. Lots and lots of protests, and all the hidden active support logistics. It’s a long list, so I will just add in study history in small mutual education groups.
Minneapolis seems to be in a state of protest, but it’s not clear.
Maybe - MAYBE 5% of Americans are involved in protest. Get that over 30% before you come here telling me that USAians don’t support invading former allies.
The world is tired about hearing of how many heroes there are protesting in the USA while it’s plainly evident that millions are just going about their daily life. Nobody should be at work. “We don’t support Trump” sent from your office doesn’t do fuck all for the rest of the world.
I gave you a solution, but you USAians can’t act on it. Your defeatist attitudes are why we’re upset.
I can’t vote in your election and I cant visit your country to protest and your representatives don’t read mail from foreigners. You can do all those things.
I’m eagerly anticipating news not hearing of violent repression of the protest in major cities like NYC, Atlanta, Houston, Seattle, and SF.
One woman in one city does not a massacre make.
Edited - it’s not my intent to make it seem that I am eager for violence. I’m eager to hear of the mass protests, not the violent repression. However, I haven’t heard any news of mass protests outside of MLPS.
I'm not gonna make any sweeping statements about the country, but you did mention my city so I'll just give my appraisal of the situation here. We're not getting massacred in the street, but protests are big and frequent. They're mostly nonviolent, and serve the purpose of connecting people with organizations they can continue to work with after everyone goes home. Mutual aid, bail funds, lots of other local orgs doing good work under the radar. Huge counterprotests too when fascists come to the city to hold rallies.
Police have still found "cause" to crack down on protests and disperse them with pepper spray, make arrests, etc. ICE still abducts people here, despite the best efforts of our reporting network and protests meant to slow down operations. And we haven't seen a full-scale occupation yet like what is happening in Minneapolis. But we are gearing up to be ready when it happens. I of course wish more people were involved, but there is substantial work being done here.
Stop trying to make “USAians” happen. It sounds dumb. Especially with the i (why not just USAans? It sounds less awkward). Anyway, I’m sure things aren’t perfect where you live, so WhY dOnT U quit uR JorB??????
Fuck off you ignorant troll. It's not 40% of ALL Americans, just the people being asked the question. This poll did not go out to 300 Million people. It was likely a few hundred people in front of a market that don't care and respond with whatever to get the questions to stop.
Americans are dying in a one sided resistance to right wing violence and you think it's okay to say they are dying for nothing. That we are all like this. Fuck you. Learn to understand distinction and differences.
Alright, I'm getting shitloads of reports all over these comments, mostly people whining to mommy when people disagree with them hoping I'll ban whoever it is they don't like.
It seems like all the old talking points have been said and everyone's positions are as entrenched as they're going to get. I'm locking this; give it a rest, you lot.
Americans are being killed in the street right now fighting back
Not sure what point is being made here
This is propaganda to further divide
Every single time someone online claims to be this or that identity from this or that country, they are doing it as a black man. You cannot trust claims online accounts make about their identity.
I don't need to trust OOP. In USians own words that they were repeating ad nauseam on Reddit for the past four years, Russians are all responsible for Putin's actions because they didn't overthrow him. Tell me why the same shouldn't apply to USians.
They said that Russians should've protested, and that would cure Putin's dictatorship. Which Russians did, culminating with Bolotnaya in 2011, after which the downturn to authoritarianism only accelerated; and particularly in east and north regions practically every year, with six months of protests sometimes.
They also said that Russians should've overthrown Putin with other means, i.e. unarmed clerks should've gone against the police, Rosgvardiya, FSB and the military.
Well let's see then how this protesting thing and overthrowing thing works out for USians, and if it doesn't then we will speak the same of them as they did about Russians. Trump is still on the throne after one year, yall seem to be slacking.
Maybe you'll feel better if you overthrow Putin.
Yeah, why don't I also overthrow Trump while I'm at it, since USians seemingly can't do shit about him despite talking a lot of talk. And then overthrow Vučić and Orbán because I'm responsible for all of them, and never people of those countries themselves.
Maybe we'll feel better if you overthrow Trump.
Yeah no. Talk is cheap. USians can depose Trump and show the example for all the world, or they can shut up about how they personally didn't enable Trump's regime.
scans thread
It's working!
😒
They are calling out americans to do something about their fascist government, who they are trying to divide?
This divides US individuals from their allies elsewhere. The nation has failed to represent its people. Either help us sabotage the fascist machinery now or prepare yourself for when the regime reaches your doorstep. The villains here don't respect borders except when they divide and control the rest of us. Don't help them do that.
How does this divides US individuals from their allies?
This post essentially says "Don't tell us if you disagree with the fascists, we don't care". I don't see how any good will come from burying your head in the sand and ignoring potential allies and reinforcing in-group/out-group divisions. That actually supports their evil divide-and-conquer strategy!
The only groups that should matter here are the wealth-hoarding fascists vs everyone else in the world. They don't care what country we're from our what languages we speak or what recipes we got from our grandmothers; they ultimately want to enslave or murder us all.
Part of it, I think, is that a random person apologizing on behalf of an entire country is rather pointless. It doesn't benefit that other country at all (in a personal sense a genuine apology might provide reassurance that the apologizer doesn't intend to repeat some offense, but a person apologizing for an entire country, that they don't control, can make no such garuntee, same as apologizing on behalf of an unrepentant stranger would be pointless). The only thing it really does is make the person apologizing feel slightly better about what is going on.
If little actions like that didn't happen, the international stage would see us as a monolith all supporting Trump. Your only source of truth would be our media.
That would be horrible.
I get that sentiment, but consider: there are orders of magnitude more people in the US than Greenland. As such, if Americans go into communities for Greenland to demonstrate to them that we don't all support Trump in such a way, the result would be less a "little thing" and more the people actually using that community getting bombarded with Americans apologizing for the actions of other Americans in a space meant to be for Greenland. I'm not from there and so can't say for sure how that comes across, but I at least imagine that were I from Greenland, I'd probably find this far more annoying than reassuring.
Isnt that exactly what the post is addressing? It's something us-americans do for themselves, for their image in front of the world. It is not done for the greenlanders and therefore leaves a bitter taste.
Many of us have empathy, and feel terrible that the rest of the world has to deal with the bullshit that a third of our country and half our political system has voted for. Your comment seems to be blind to that fact.
And that energy needs to be directed at reducing and preventing the bullshit. Apologizing to Greenland does nothing for the bullshit they have to deal with.
All apologies only server to make the apologizer feel better. Should we just stop doing it altogether?
huh? that's literally not the point of apologies? they're explicitly about taking responsibility, acknowledging harm done, expressing genuine remorse and committing to real actionable change.
the issue in the OP is when people say "I'm sorry about the orange cheeto - I didn't vote for this you don't deserve to be treated this way" - this is useless and performative and serves to mostly make the person apologising feel better.
instead a real apology would take ownership and commit to action: "I'm sorry I didn't do more, and here's what I'll do going forward (mobilise, organize, agitate, etc)"
and even then it might still not make a difference and people might still hate you but we don't fight fascists to win or to feel better about ourselves but because they are fascists..
You actually think it makes them feel any better? Like they’re actually doing a narcissistic masturbation and patting themselves on the back for having done their part? THAT’S your projection of events? Jesus Christ lmao it’s a completely ordinary way of revealing to others there are citizens on their side too
You sound more irony poisoned and cynical than the fictional character you just made up
Not nearly enough of us are fighting back.
Not nearly enough of anyone is fighting back
Do you really think that any major media would show how much resistance to government is out there and working? "The resistance will not be televised"
More often than not, they're being killed on the street (or in their homes or bleeding out in hospital wards or in detention cells) without ever lifting a finger. This isn't Sparta. We're not a bunch of paramilitary guerrillas with years of experience resisting an armed occupation. The bulk of American resistance is rhetorical - protest marches, sit ins, etc - because that's what we've all been trained to believe is the most effective.
That apologies fall flat when the bombs start landing. Greenland people need a real material international resistance to Trumpist Imperialism, not a Wisconsin Nice "gee golly this isn't what we wanted" letter from the well-meaning people working at the F-35 jet engine factory.
Oh, sorry if that offended the americans heros who are protesting against what they voted for. Being Canadian, knowing that makes me realize everything is ok and I will stop mentionning your country is threatening to annex mine on a daily basis because some of you don't want to too. Greenland and Venezuela should also stfu and let americans handle this like they always do, the best possible way.
Ope, can't say "I didn't vote for this" because that's an annoying cliche too. I'm guessing you helped bury those Inuit kids under that schoolyard since you're Canadian and you all think that same like all Americans do
JFK, yeah, excellent example: the whole point of the reconciliation process is recognizing that there is collective responsibility beyond individual actions.
I didn’t direct the genocide, but fucking rights I benefit as a settler, and repairing that involves both compensation and recognition of the existence of those benefits. It’s an ongoing struggle here as a lot of immature thinking still exists, crying about “it wasn’t me, stop blaming” while eating the fruits of colonialism every breathing moment.
Greenlanders don’t own land. They don’t have this individualism problem very much.
I'm all for reconciliation, and trying to make things better even if you didn't participate in the colonialism. That is a good thing to do and something I try to do on my own life.
We're not talking about that in this thread.
We're talking about collective blame for the actions of others. If your government does something that's amoral, and even if you're trying to stop it, it does it anyway, are you copable?
Reconciliation says that even if you didn't do the things, if you benefit from it, it's your responsibility to try to fix it. That's not what people are advocating for, they are gleefully saying people deserve to have a boot on their neck just because they happen to live in this country.
Yeah lol, about that, let's ask my Attikamek mom about her time in a residency school.
Doesn't matter if you're under the boot or wearing it, you're all the same so you all deserve it, right? You Canadians voted for it and allowed it to happen.
Oh wait that's a shitty take? Maybe reconsider using it on others.
Get fucked, we both know you wont be doing shit and will keep hiding behind your computer when he makes is move on Greenland and Canada. As long as Amazon will keep delivering them crap made in China, americans will be all words and no act.
it's easy to demand someone else sacrifice their life and liberty and livelihood for you.
that's the point.
Some Americans. The vast majority aren't doing anything or just complaining in the internet. A HUGE amount on the Internet have the attitude of "someone save us". Most are just sitting back waiting for the "breaking point" and others to start the action so they know it's safe to join in.
The point being made here is that having a textual emotional breakdown 'apology video' on a niche social media platform is completely fucking useless toward solving the problem, and that uselessness is so performative that it is actually insulting.
The Americans that are actually doing something about it?
Different topic.
Because they are actually doing something about it.
They're not wasting their energy writing useless and meaningless apologies, making it ultimately about how ashamed they are to be an-
Nobody fucking cares about how sorry anyone one is when the harm is ongoing and worsening.
You bringing up Americans who actually are resisting, that is a non sequitur, it is completely missing the point.
Sincerely, An American who is sick of other American's self-centered 'main character' bullshit.
One of the points being made is that if every russian is a piece of shit because putin was elected the same logic should apply to americans.
https://feddit.nl/post/22918080
It's that true, or was it just one? It's not like there is some real resistance.
It's sort of like Russia. There is some opposition, but nobody really wants to do anything real. Just that in Russia you get sent to the gulag, in America is just so much apathy and stupidity not many even understand what's happening and had no idea what to do even if they did.
wow what an exaggaration. even though it's a terrible situation, ONE person got killed by ONE ICE-prick. people arent 'killed in the street fighting back' most of you aren't doing shit. Renee Good was ALONE
incorrect. more than one person has been murdered in the streets. many more killed while in ice custody. many people unsure of whereabouts.
Ah another keyboard warrior unfamiliar with all 50 state police forces and every other militarized federal agency in continuous operation
Yeah, we should all be going out and getting killed right now!
Correct
You're correct, but in this first-past-the-post lemmy system, you're going to be downvoted to oblivion, whilst the top votes go to exactly the kind of comment the actual post rails against!
luckily negative internet points matter as much as their stupid apologies
We actually do make that distinction between the country and the people. Just like how people can support the Iranian protests but not the Iranian leadership. I agree with the general sentiment that the posts being addressed are stupid and pointless though.
Healthy people do, but too many do not.
Sounds like r/greenland isn't healthy and has to be liberated from its close minded point of view...
Maybe places where the government reasonably represents more than a small sliver of society aren't used to making that distinction? Not sure if how much that is the case in Denmark or perceived to be the case there. But anyone reasonably used to the government not implementing even basic policies supported by 75%+ people in the country because some lobbying group says "no" should be used to differentiating between the government and the people it rules over. Would be like blaming the people of India for all of the atrocities committed by the British Empire when they were a colony.
Depends on what you mean by 'We'. Suggesting that Putin doesn't fully reflect the Russian people gets pretty hostile responses based entirely on the logic of the original post.
All russians are orcs, all americans are seppos, etc.
"Americans should take responsibility!" But when an American takes responsibility and apologized even though that person probably voted for someone else and is doing what they can to fight back "well fuck you".
So you want some hard pills to swallow?
If you are mad at Trump, whether you're from the US or not, but bought things from Amazon, still using Twitter, still using Facebook, still buying from Nestle, still using Uber, still using Robin Hood, or any of the who knows what companies that have given Trump money, then you're compliant. Especially if you did that before the election. You helped fund this.
You think Americans should rise up in the streets? Actually get up and do something instead of apologize online? Well you know that people can do both, right? Maybe ask people how they are getting involved instead of assuming they aren't doing anything, and get, if they aren't, that might get them off of their lazy asses.
You think we should overthrow the government? Ok, where's your military? Seems like most of the world leaders are willing to take the knee and let that lunatic run rampant because they are scared of our overblown military that, frankly, most of us don't even want, so why aren't you fighting? If your fully trained, well equipped military can't handle the US, how do you expect a bunch of civilians to be able to? Where's your help if that's so easy? Sure our country is larger than most and about a third of a continent, but if it should be easy for us then it should be cake for you!
Most of us didn't vote for the guy, and he's the least popular president in history, even lower than the second least popular president, which was Jim at his last term. "Oh but a third didn't vote at all!" But you don't know why they didn't vote. Some might've been apathetic, but some might've been in our bullshit hospitals, and some might've been turned away at the polls, or maybe it's because we're working three jobs just to keep a roof over our head and enough shit food to keep from starving, who the fuck knows. Dude lost the popular vote both times but because we've got a fucked up voting system no one will change once they have won using it, he still won.
I'm not trying to be a dick here, and I know you all are frustrated because of this nut job. We are, too. The country has been taken over by oligarchs and now you care because he's threatening to invade places with white people.
But you can't tell people to have empathy and take responsibility then talk shit about them when they do. You can't have it both ways.
You can't say that it's shitty for people to paint with broad strokes and say an entire group of people is the exact same and demonize them, then do the same for an entire population of a country.
You can't say that it's entirely on Americans when you're still giving money to people backing him and aren't fighting him either.
So maybe instead of bitching about people who feel bad about something they didn't do apologizing, figure out what you might be doing that's contributing and stop it.
Boycott the USA.
Hey, that's our shitty company! Should still be boycotted though.
Greetings from Switzerland.
I'm also still very tired of hearing people outside the USA telling us to start spilling each other's blood willy nilly.
These comments from people saying that every single American is an evil monster because of their government are displaying the exact same hatred and ignorance that allows fascism to thrive. Which explains why far-right politicians have been gaining power all over the world. Watch your backs, people from other countries looking down their noses at the US - you're next if you don't do something about your problems at home, like you're saying Americans should do. You haven't been doing a very good job so far.
How is apologizing for something you didn't do taking responsibility? It's just irrational. Of course Greenlanders are tired of empty hypocrisy. They are scared af
I'm fucking sick of watching Americans still use these services, buy these products. It's fu king infuriating to the point where I'm saying shit to strangers outside. Stop supporting the boot on your neck!
Most Americans won't give up the slightest bit of comfort, and I'm bout to start throwing hands.
For the down voters, wah wah ur poor Amazon, lazy fucks .
A South African billionaire spent 300million to get Trump to win. An Australian media mogal has been using propaganda to brainwash Americans, and the world, for the last 30 years. All of this is being supported by a Russian dictator that has control over his puppet, not to mention his puppets in other countries.
Go on an tell me more about how this is only America fault.
Far right parties in Germany and France nearly took over their respective governments. America is just a bellwether of what is going to be commonplace in all developed liberal nations if we don't start sincerely addressing the wealth inequality.
Fascism is a natural development in liberal democracies when too much wealth is distributed to the upper class. The upper class uses their wealth as political capital to maintain the status quo that benefits them the most. To counteract leftist movements they support the far right, and before you know it there are paramilitary groups out in the streets.
This is going to happen in every country that promotes free market capitalism, starting with the countries with the least amount of social safety nets and most tax breaks for the ultra wealthy.
Yes, it is class war, and populism is the cudgel that beats democracy.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tommy_Douglas
You, um, let them do it?
How so, you ask? A cultural acceptance of hero worship, rugged capitalism, and global dominion. A lack of adequate reflexivity. Yes, it’s cultural, which puts some atom of power in every resident’s hands and mouth.
It's not a culture war, that's just the dressing. It's a class war using nationalism and culture as a scapegoat.
There's a reason why fascism is on a drastic rise across all western democracies. The monied class across all liberal democracies have acquired enough political capital to where they've essentially taken away all options but violence, another commodity they maintain a monopoly over for now.
I'm sure your country is has a growing reactionary party riding the wave of right winged populism washing over liberalism, what are you doing about it?
Sorry, bud, the cultural issues that led us here aren’t so much about your cultural civil war that is mostly just class war in disguise. It’s a both sides problem at the heart of the empire, the one where even the poor folks are okay with 800+ bases on foreign soil, etc.
Fuck off. Not Australian.
Murdoch had to give up Australian citizenship to buy into US media.
He's all yours, and you can keep the cunt.
I don't think there was any "only" in the OC.
But the ball certainly is still in the american peoples court.
Yeah, sure, the ball is in our court. But we're playing blindfolded against a gigantic prime Roger Federer who doesn't care if he "accidentally" steps on some of us, and half of our side actually wants to see giant Roger Federer win for some reason.
I get it, empty apologies are meaningless. But posts complaining about said apologies and telling Americans "actually no, we see you all as a single mass of shit people that made your own shit bed and we want to see you sleep in it" is similarly unhelpful.
I know a lot of young Ukrainians, who moved to my country because of this fear. I can understand the fear of death, of everything being taken away. They are the nicest people, and their decision will forever haunt them.
As if those same strategies aren’t currently active in every other country in the world. They just spent more here and had a head start on the brainwashing.
I just feel as though decade long geopolitics is a little bit different than a back and forth ball toss.
But the ball certainly is still in the american peoples court.The best way to destroy an empire is from within.Did they, though? Or has a generational institution of gerrymandering and targeted voter suppression simply become insurmountable?
or it was the opposition party putting up a shitty worthless candidate that was never going to win.
because the democratic party is total delusional when it comes to understanding the issues American face and are concerned about. the republicans aren't.
the republicans lie though. but most human beings would rather be lied to and listened to, than ignored and told to suck it up because they have it 'so good'.
Gerrymandering has no impact on general elections though
You’re right, controlling how local governments elect representatives and spend money and disseminate media narratives has absolutely no outcome on general elections.
Totally.
Right. That’s why they do it.
Do yourself a favor and google the terms “gerrymandering” and “voter suppression”. You clearly don’t have any idea what they are from your response.
Oh look, another brainless clapping seal happily engaging in tribalism and ignorant guilt by association!
You think you're so much better while using the EXACT train of thought Republicans use, who support Trump.
Good job being exactly what you hate!
critical thinking skills typically are only present in a tiny minority of the population of any society or nation.
He lost the popular vote. Both times.
No, just the first and second times. He actually got more votes last year than Harris.
That still doesn't defeat my point because it wasn't over 50%. Even if every single American voted with the same percentages, it STILL would not be a majority of Americans that voted for him.
Thusly, to blame ALL Americans is nothing but ignorant guilt by association.
I know. But don't say things that are just factually wrong in an argument like this. It gives your opponent (who isn't me, by the way) ammunition.
All those that did not vote supported fascism. ‘All that is required by evil is that ordinary people do nothing.’
Millions of people did more than nothing. More people voted against Trump than for him.
He won less than half. Of a small percentage who did vote.
Is that what you've been taught? Less than 50% means you can slander 100%? Fucking bigoted fool.
Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 and 2020 which is probably what they were thinking of. Maybe don't assume someone is a moron when they're technically correct but say it confusingly. We're all lucky our brains work at all given all the bullshit we have to keep track of related to dictator cunt known as Trump.
You know most people didn't vote for him, right?
Oh yeah? Come and fuck me then. You won’t. Coward.
Yeah, let's all fuck this person.
Yeah! Let's fuck 'em.
Cool so you like collective punishment? Fuck that Geneva convention?
Americans who didn't vote for Trump are about as powerless as non-Americans who also didn't vote for Trump. If you're expecting them to commit crimes, go to jail, and lose everything they care about, then why can't they expect people from other countries do the same thing? Or better yet, why don't you immigrate and help vote for change after you get your citizenship? Why don't you lobby your own leaders for tough sanctions? Vote people in who will stand up to Trump and his garbage brigade?
I didn't even ask to be born. I didn't ask to be born here. And I didn't ask for any of the stuff that's happening. So chill?
Americans are being killed and jailed daily for literally no reasons. OP doesn't realize that even pushing from within accomplishes nothing.
Pushing from within alone does nothing. Finding a way to band together (in spite of our toxic individualism) and push back does everything. It's literally the only thing that will work. It's what we should have been doing all along. It's what a country does to right itself. And the fact that we can't seem to or up until this point, haven't felt the need to do it is why other countries are pissed.
To add insult to injury, they've had loads of 2nd amendment dudebros coming into comment threads every time they have a very rare mass shooting, or police violence, telling them they never should have given up their guns lest they become servile to a rogue government.
Wait.
Wait.
Are you telling me... that... for some kind of big change to actually happen... people would need to... work... together?
With like, some kind of plan, that... has some kind of specific goal, and a plausible way of actually achieving that goal?
No no no that can't be right.
Society is just this other thing that I am not a part of.
Society is everyone else; me? I'm different.
And plans are stupid, because I am just a powerless little smol bean, what can I do?
( /s /s /s /s /s )
Hm.
What will you say, when they come for you anyway?
What you're saying is simply wrong. The Americans still have plenty of opportunities to resist. You could organize a general strike and paralyze the country, for example.
Now you feel like many germans feel...
We can stop complaining, we can be chill. We can vote in people who will stand up to Trump and keep him away from us. But we can only keep him away from us. It's up to the American people to keep him away from you because it's not our business to stick our nose into your business. This isn't even about us, it's about you. Instead of telling us to chill you should be asking yourself why you're so chill with it. Doing nothing is still going to lead to something and that something is only getting worse.
We don't like what your country is doing but when it eventually gets resolved and there is a world left standing our lives will be fine. You will be the ones who have to continue putting up with this shit.
Yeah, we know. And we're not chill. And we're taking action. The people who are reading this comment are not your target audience. You're preaching to the choir.
The target audience is not the activists who are already doing what we ask, yes we know, but you are missing that we are seeing a lot of posts disavowing any responsibility, which indicates a deep cultural flaw of individualism and American Exceptionalism, and yeah it bears repeating as the psychological resistance to that message is fierce.
I don't think the person I replied to is interested in taking action, which is why I commented in the first place. People like him need to be told that there's no sitting out this one. If you do nothing then it's only going to get worse.
sorry, do you think the russians should vote out Putin too?
If they can vote him out, yes. If they can't then I think they should forcibly remove him. It's the Russian people who are suffering from his stupid war, not him.
So you basically think the russian state should collapse into revolution and anarchy?
Do you think the current Russian state is the best it can be for its citizens? Or even remotely beneficial to them?
I think Putin is in power and there is no opposition to him because he has systematically destroyed it.
And he won't leave short of his own death or social collapse.
I don't have any naivety about the state of the political landscape of Russia. Voting out Putin would be correct way to do things but more realistically he would need to be toppled for there to be change. But that's because all non-violent avenues have been cut off. I don't think waiting for his death is the answer because his death will also create a power vacuum and instability and most likely in that case he'll just be replaced by another autocrat.
Bringing that point back to America, I think there's still a chance for America to course correct without resorting to violence, but that requires the American people to start pressuring the administration right now. The more they wait the more they become like Russia, where eventually all the way to get rid of the autocrat without violence have been dismantled. And much like in Russia, waiting for Trump to die isn't going to solve anything because the Republican party will just find someone to replace him.
Boo hoo. Grow a pair and take responsibility.
Why would people who had no choice about where we're born and who have opposed MAGA from the beginning need to "take responsibility" for what's happening right now? I don't know what country you live in but I'm guessing you don't take responsibility for everything its government does, and if you do, you're crazy.
When they ask Russians what they think about their country bombing kindergartens, they say they aren't into politics. That's you.
People in my country go to the streets. They strike, they burn a few cars if needed. America just sinks lower and lower into a dystopian horror and people do less and less.
You're making a lot of assumptions and lumping a lot of people together who don't deserve it.
Yes I am. I'm not writing a thesis here lol.
It looks pretty bleak. I bet if midterms go bad for Trump, he will claim they are fraudulent and cancel the results. And nobody will do anything about it but complain online, the late night comedians will do they bits, a lot of videos with all caps about how someone DESTROYED trump in their speech. And that will be that. If he even loses lol, he might still win, a lot of people are cool with this. That's how I see America. And most people I talk to here.
This is what MAGA people do.
I notice that doesn’t say I. And the vast majority of people talking a big game wouldn’t dare do any of that shit in America, because our cops have guns and our prison system is so notorious for inmate rape that it’s a punchline.
If you absolutely would do that shit in America, buy a plane ticket since it’s so easy to get done.
Toxic masculinity. Nice.
I'm trans I barely get treated like a person and have my options severely limited. Don't give me that shit about how every American is responsible when we tried to tell people and got ridiculed and called slurs for it and got rape threats. Kiss my ass.
y'all realize that all these posts do is echo divisional language, right?
like, it's literally saying "you're part of the problem because you live there". the same could be said about literally anything.
see? not even difficult to twist words around and divide us. it's all a mechanic to make us weaker, it's actually exactly what Trump is doing by pulling the US out of agreements and support systems. they want to make us all weaker by dividing us.
don't listen to users who use divisional language when it comes to world politics, it only serves to further the fascist agenda.
The entire thing is blaming the victim. As if people suffering under Trump are somehow complicit in their own suffering and they should just overthrow him violently.
It's typical armchair revolutionary nonsense, people who post this crap and want to blame everyone else, which is very easy to do in an online echochamber full of ignorant people who are just venting their angst.
As a Canadian who is under direct economic and now physical threat by magapolitik: yes and no.
The entire thing is NOT victim blaming. If two thirds of the electorate supported the fascists, the remaining third is both victim and responsible, and the ONLY way to fix this problem at the moment is for that demographic to recognize it, despite the education system and popular culture suppressing nuance in thinking.
So often, the apologies or calls for sympathy are founded in a deep individualism and shallow civic duty. Yeah, it’s your neighbours who are the soil that grows fascism. You have to fix it at the root: education, civic development, secularism, humanism, community, collective action. You have to heal rifts of creed and work hard to eliminate racism, and realize that the endgame of capitalism is always oligarchy and imperialism.
So yeah ‘fix your shit’ applies when we feel like “service neighbours” for your absolution, as we are not going to make you feel better when we are stressed by your collective existential threats and you are showing a distinct lack of responsibility.
On the other hand I know of lots of folks who are already preparing to support refugees, particularly trans etc., so we are being practical here about the active victim situation, not just keyboarding.
The electoral college system in America means that a certain number of electors are assigned per state. Most states electors are assigned on a winner takes all basis. For instance even in deep red Texas he only got 56% of the vote but was assigned ALL Texas's electors just like Harris received all California's electors. Electors are assigned by state not by population so you could theoretically win with as little as 1/3 of the vote.
We cannot basically ever change this via normal political process because the Southern traitors would lose votes and amending our constitution requires overwhelming not majority support.
There are approx 338M people in the US. Approx 85 M didn't get to vote because they were under 18 in November of 2024. Of the remaining 253M 77M voted for Trump 75 for Harris and 100M didn't vote.
Many of those who didn't vote lived in districts and states that were already decided in which those residents had no voice because of our broken system. A system that now endangers us and the world.
If you poll people the percentate that actually support Trump and his policies isn't the percentage of the vote he received, 48%, its 39%
You said 2/3 but its a hell of a lot closer to a third.
You assert that if the missing 100 million showed up it would make no difference in the outcome, so they were not showing tacit support? I remain unconvinced.
No. I'm saying that many not all were effectively disenfranchised by a system that would effectively give their votes to the opposing side no matter how they voted. For example blue voters in Texas.
You asserted that American's were collectively complicit because 2/3 voted for him. This isn't true. 48% voted for him. Voter turnout was furthermore suppressed by a system in which blue voters in red districts/states have no hope of representation. The actual support for Trump is actually only 39% of Americans.
61% of us are along the ride.
No, I know you are trying to argue in good faith, but I asserted that 2/3 supported, which includes not voting, regardless of defeatism. If the vast majority voted in opposition but still failed, there would be much more impetus for electoral reform, for example.
Failure to actively oppose at the polls is tacit support, even if it’s negligent. Disenfranchised votes are worth struggle.
25% of the population were under 18 during the election they cannot be said to tacitly support trump.
22% of people voted directly for Harris they directly opposed trump.
This alone is 47% of the population! This alone disproves your 2/3 narrative!
30% of the pop by not voting did not cast a tacit vote for Trump. Few countries have 100% voter turnout in any free country. A sane mathematical treatment of the situation is to assume that a sufficiently large sample is representative OR to ask people.
If 48% of voters voted for Trump we assume 48% of those who were adults in 2024 are responsible or 36% or we can ask people if they support Trump and we get 39%.
Most in the US aren't for our modern day nazis
2024 was the second highest voter turn out in history. Second to 2020. Trump lost the polular vote. You just dont understand what youre talking about.
After all votes were counted he won the popular vote by a small margin but bear in mind 100M literally didn't vote. Apathy is as big an issue as evil.
I'm one of the ones who did vote against him but I live in Los Angeles. In LA County, 2.4 million voted for Harris, 1.2 million voted for Trump, and 1.9 million didn't vote. (45 thousand voted for RFK, Stein or other fringe candidates.)
A million of those non-voters could have all voted one way, EITHER way, without changing the results. So what "tacit support" are you talking about?
The entirety of California'e electoral votes went to Harris. But the electoral college is unbalanced,
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/electoral-college-states-representation/
so our candidate got 9 fewer electoral votes than she would have if it were fair. And even if all 1.9 million Los Angeles non-voters had voted for her it wouldn't have changed a thing.
Should they have voted anyway? Yes, if only because of the local elections and propositions they could have had a voice in.
And California is one of the easiest, most vote-supportive states, which mails a vote-by-mail ballot and supplemental information packets to every registered voter.
But if someone didn't, I'm not going to ascribe some kind of blame or "tacit support" label to them instead of hearing their individual situation.
the solutions you are suggesting will take 50+ years to develop. and nobody is interested in investing them, democrat or republican. there is no political platform for any of that in the USA.
You basically are suggesting we be entirely different than we are. it's not possible. everyone is going the opposite way. most 'leftists' in american are actively embracing racism just like the far right.
also you canadians have a lot of the same root problems as americans. cost of COL is through the roof, you refuse to reform immigration, and you are increasingly polarized, and deinvesting in helathcare and education. you're just a decade or two behind. I lived in canada for 3 years. It was very much America in the 90s. things are better generally, but nobody is addressing any of the real problems and the citizen themselves don't want to do it because it would be too painful.
I mean lecture every american all you want, it's not going to change the facts on the ground. the notion of some sort of deep common humanism doesn't exist anymore in our politics and it hasn't since the 1960s.
Bullshit. A few years when the commitment is there and collective responsibility is widespread.
a few years nothing will change. the democrats don't do anything, they just kick the can down the road and pretend it's fine. all they are is more polite than the republicans. maybe you don't remember recently history but Biden and Obama admins did nothign to address serious problems. they just threw a couple of bandaids on our bleeding wounds and called it a day.
This pessimism is annoyingly familiar to Canadians, but we usually express it with a hint of irony.
it's not pessimism, it's understanding how people work.
The funny thing about leftist/progressive agenda is... everyone is for it, until it impacts them personally. Everyone wants more housing, more immigration, more education.... until its in their town and their tax bill goes up. Then all the sudden they are VERY opposed to these things.
My own very blue city just had lots of tax rates go up. All the sudden our very popular progressive major is getting a lot less popular... and her progressive plans to expand and fund new things is now being cut back...
weird how that works, right? it's almost as if people don't want the things they say they want...
everyone's idealism disappears when the bills come due and the cold hard facts of finite resources and infinite demand slap them in the face.
Yeah, I came here to say something like this. The writer of the post has just as much power to effect change as the average American does. Why aren't they doing something about it? Oh right, because they fucking can't. This language serves no purpose but to attempt to divide and inflame.
Individualism and authoritarianism demands a hero comes along to bandaid all the problems. Don’t fall for it.
Civic responsibility doesn’t mean standing on a pile of bodies holding a rifle aloft.
well it makes the poster feel important and righteous and superior to all those evil bad people. it's really what it's about.
it's a fork of jerking off your ego. which is like 99.9% of any political posts.
"think about how you view other countries, for example Russia"
Okay, I do not at all in any way think about the average Russian citizen the way people on this fucking site seem to think about the average American citizen. The idea that I would demand those innocent people essentially commit suicide through armed conflict is demented, yet there's no such qualms about Americans.
All that being said though, I have to agree, going to random communities and saying you're sorry is useless. It only serves to make you feel slightly better and does nothing to actually help the situation, akin to wishing thoughts and prayers.
I mean, cmon. Every country can become like this, no people are special. Hating people for not instantly becoming martyrs by committing terrorism in their own country is a bit dumb.
We have to nudge them a bit, fund resistances, saboteurs, maybe an outside intervention. Civilians are just civilians.
This is how we get countries cut off from the world, who become eternal reprobates, and we never have good relations with them again.
Oh look, a post which has no informational content and who's only possible outcome is to create division amongst the civilian populations of two allied countries.
Oh look, it is posted by an account who has a perfectly normal comment history but a strange affinity for posting content which creates a comment section full of divisive conversations between:
I’ll post here what I’ve posted elsewhere with addition comments sprinkled in.
This is what bothers me the most about folks, usually from an EU country, telling Americans we should just oust our shithead president through national strikes or violence and complain that we aren’t doing anything. The US is huge, what works in smaller European countries is vastly more difficult and expensive to organize and execute in the US. Those tactics do work here, but mostly at the local and state level which is akin to how they work in most EU countries when you adjust for population and size. At this level there is just not much an individual or relatively small group can do. Even if my entire city and the surrounding area rose up together (which it wouldn’t since it’s politically mixed) it would have little to no impact. A million or two people just isn’t that much in a nation as large and diverse as the US. The entirety of California or Texas couldn’t appreciably move the needle in all reality and they are massive, wealthy states.
The US General Strike movement estimates that we would need just 3.5% of the US adult population to strike to see any results, that is over 10.5 million people, and they have less than half a million signed up. To put that in perspective, that’s more than the entire population of Greece, Austria, or Sweden needed to make an impact, and even well resourced and organized they are barely moving the needle due mostly to the sheer size of the country. None of those countries can get their entire population to agree on something though, so it’s not really surprising the US hasn’t been able to get that many people to agree either.
In addition, the risks are enormous to everyday people when there isn’t an organization to back their movement. I still need to eat, put a roof over mine and my families head, and generally exist in this world. I applaud those that have the means, drive, or mindset to just take direct action but the vast majority do not. Going out half cocked, guns blazing though also doesn’t accomplish anything and just gives more media ammo to the current regime to oppress rights further. Until we can find our MLK to lead a movement against this oppression though, it’s unlikely that resistance will accomplish much visibly.
I think it would be a fantastic idea for Europeans, and the rest of the world, to start actually considering what a violent, imperialist US means to their normal day-to-day and how they can best prepare to defend against it. I, and all those I choose to surround myself with, hate what our government is doing. We voted against it, give money and time to causes against it and to try to reduce harm where we can and help those impacted by it. Many of us would leave if we had the means to, but the reality is that leaving has its own risks, is surprisingly difficult and expensive, doesn’t guarantee where we end up will ultimately be better, and removes our ability to do anything here. Like most of life, reality is complex and messy, I just wish everyone could keep that in mind when condemning all Americans for the actions our government is taking.
That all said, Americans are doing something, not enough, and not quickly, but protests are nearly constant in various parts of the country. Congress is rebuking nearly all of the big budget cuts Trump wanted, and more right leaning lawmakers are starting to stand up against the regime. Again, it’s not enough, but it isn’t silence like is often asserted here and elsewhere.
In short, I am not my country, and while I fully accept that the world hates the US right now (and they should), personally hating every individual American and blaming us as specifically responsible is ignorant and inflammatory. It doesn’t help and just serves to depress and discourage action by those of us who do not support the actions of our government and are trying to help in the ways that we can.
Was it huge when there was a civil war, with less infrastructure? Was it huge on jan. 6?
During the Civil War we were less than half our current size. Maybe even a third the size. I can find maps that show our size but none that actual say what our land area was. I could calculate it, but I'm not. Also, we had about 10% of our current population.
So yea, we were quite a bit smaller back then.
the population was also far more rural 1/3 of the entire population were farmers.
now 1% of the population is in farming.
But what about their clapback?! You weren't supposed to actually provide information to the contrary of their haughty and uninformed statement!!
Either way, I don't know what counts as huge. Even back then we still stretched from Maine to Florida to Texas, which is over 2500 miles at its longest. That's still pretty damn big. Still bigger than any country in Europe minus Russia.
I just wanted to give a comparison.
Was it still huge?
January 6th only took place because the sitting president told his supporters to storm the capitol and said he'd back them. There are Americans who are fighting what's happening here and want to do more, but we are so disenfranchised disorganized that we really don't have a lot of options other than getting ourselves killed or imprisoned without changing anything.
Democrats are equivalent to most center-right parties in Europe. They have historically and continue to pay lip-service to left-leaning causes while quietly backing whatever the fascists want. Those of us who want to change things have no locus of power behind which to organize.
And re: The Civil War, it was a much smaller country then, and each side in the conflict was backed by elites with power and organizational capacity.
Billionaires also footed the bill to organize and bus in the J6 insurrection crowd. There was also a bunch of planning to mitigate normal security measures. And it still didn't work!
Are people really so out of touch that they think a few random people in Washington DC were able to try that on a whim?
"Hey guys just so you know, showing empathy is stupid virtue signaling. Remember when you catch yourself blaming Russians for Putin's actions and realize it is wrong to do that? Actually you need to ignore that feeling -- it's justified. Blame all the Russians. Even though you feel utterly crushed and powerless right now, um, do something about it. Sure, that's a billion times easier to say than both do and succeed at, but that's your problem. Maybe try fucking yourself? I dunno just be better or something."
That's good fun I recommend for everyone.
Apologizing & explaining themselves to Greenlanders, though, is a bit extra beyond "showing empathy". It's neediness seeking comfort, consolation, & validation. Expecting the people of Greenland to also dote on & assuage the guilt of those whose government is threatening them is a bit much.
I'm glad that you think you always know everyone's motivations and that they're obviously always bad, but in reality you don't.
I mean... most of the american left... are like this. It's most about feelings. They have no real coherent politican platform. They think sitting around feeling bad is the same as having a policy or a platform.
If you put forth any course of actionable discourse, they basically tell you you're an asshole because you are making them feel bad. I used be 'involved' and I gave up because all anyone wanted to do was sit around and jerk themselves off about their feelings and suggesting any action beyond interent memes was considered 'oppressive'.
the problem is if you do have empathy for people, everyone will hate you for it because it won't be for the people they like in particular.
i have empathy for every american, but if i say that to other americans they tell me i'm a facist/racist/bigot for not wanting to kill and murder people who voted republican. the hatred is from both sides towards each other is insane and anyone who tries to rise above it is just accused of being on the 'other side'.
and fwiw most of my threats come from progressive leftists, whom i vote for. they often hate their own supporters and wonder why more people aren't progressive... because you drive them away with your hateful and angry rhetoric that you falsely being is 'better' than the angry and hateful rhetoric of 'facists' you so despise.
I don’t think that’s true.
trump supporters don't think it's true that trump is a racist facist either.
I don't see why you would get downvoted here except if it's by people who know they do exactly what you're complaining about... I get where you're coming from. Although I question your use of quotes on fascists. They are indeed fascists. Doesn't mean they all deserve to die though.
that to lemmy users who send me violent hateful messages and replies for daring to have a mildly different political opinion than them.
lots and lots of users here are totally OK with violence against anyone they disagree with, and are 100% against it when it's against the people they do agree with. Funny how that attitude works... it's only 'wrong' if it's against someone you don't like.
Yeah. I think violence should be avoided at all costs, but there are some people alive right now who won't respond to anything else. They're definitely in the vast minority though.
There are good people and bad people in every country. Yes, the US government is bad. Yes, the Russian government is bad. That does not mean every person in those countries are also bad.
There are people in Russia trying their best to resist Putin. People risk their lives doing that and people have died doing that.
There are also people here in the US doing their best to resist fascism. Here too, people have died doing that.
It is unreasonable to expect every American to oppose fascism, just like it is unreasonable to expect that of every Greenlander. Remember there is a small percentage of Greenlanders who do support Trump.
Opposing fascism is difficult, dangerous, and slow. It takes a long time for change to happen. Think about all the bad governments out there. I'm sure that for each one you can find resistance to them that has been around for a long time.
So if the situation was flipped, would you want us to make a post complaining about Greenlanders apologizing?
I think you're focusing a bit to much on the last paragraph. In context of the first few paragraphs I think it's clear that they don't mean individual Americans are not doing enough, but instead the political opposition is not percieved as much. And I think assume you would agree the Democratic party as a whole is too complicit.
You are correct.
No I want to make a post about Canadians apologizing. I want the world to go back to normal.
Who has died resisting Trump, nobody.
Renee Nicole Good.
Meh, most of rest of the world are also supporting this regime by still trading with the US, using their services, investing in their companies, and buying their debt. None of what's happening would be possible without the world's support.
See how stupid this sounds? I'm not going to the Greenland subreddit and apologizing, but I am certainly not at fault for this shit.
As much as it sounds stupid, this is exactly how most Westerners have viewed West Asia (and still do) since 9/11.
No it is not. It is how the media portrays West Asia, but most people do not view it that way. If you believe that then you are falling for media manipulation just as much as you say Americans are.
And it's wrong, is what I'm saying.
All americans DIDN'T elect Trump. He LOST the popular vote. Both times.
I'm not the same person, but this assumes he didn't cheat. Which in the past, he claimed he would and there are odd discrepancies. Not saying for sure it happened, but I would believe it if it came out that it did.
Also, you aren't going to win any arguments calling people dumb. It just makes YOU look bad.
Yes, we're salty. We are under attack by our own government while being blamed by the rest of the world for it.
"That's your fault, stupid." - People in this thread.
Too many ignorant fucks like you here. You are contributing to the problems that keep humanity divided. How do you feel knowing you're no better than a screeching Republican whining about what Europe is doing?
I was attempting to continue the thread, but you got upset and derailed it. Again, being rude doesn't make you any more right. My other comment was about painting with a broad brush. I'm not sure you understood what I was trying to say. If you did, you might not be so emotional.
77 million Americans is not the same as all Americans. Prior poster was dumb for saying Trump lost the popular vote in '24, but that still leaves 75 million people who actively voted against this and many more who voted 3rd party in states where the conclusion was pre-determined anyway (if you don't know what I'm talking about, read this).
Further, you need to understand that the US doesn't have legitimate left-wing political organization. The Democrats are more or less equivalent to most center-right parties in Europe (in action, if not in rhetoric) and The Republicans are the extreme right-wing. Actual leftists in the US are completely disenfranchised, constantly demonized in the public sphere, and ostracized by most of "polite" society. People who would be members of a leftist party if they lived in another country are mostly propagandized or demoralized into supporting the Democrats, who again, are a center-right party. This is a problem that predates Trump, so we don't even have a recent history of being able to effectively organize, win elections, or make our demands heard.
That's not "all Americans". Get back here with those goalposts.
Less than fifty isn't a majority. It's STILL not most Americans, you guilt-by-association bigoted moron.
But also not correct? I don't think everyone assumes all Russians are dicks. A proper assumption would be that most of them are cool but their government sucks dicks.
This is such stupid projection...
"just think of how you view other countries". Yea, I AM thinking like that. I don't blame all Russians for Putin's war on Ukraine. I don't blame ALL Chinese for what the CCP does. I don't blame ALL North Koreans for suffering under Kim...
This is absolute insanity to accept the ignorant position as the correct position... The world is insane, because it's full of idiots like this that cannot think past the most basic reactionary BS.
If ya'll think you're better than the US, stop acting like reactionary fools.
This is how some of you sound
No usian thinks "I'm sorry" is enough. It's just a thing to let the world know we are not all crazy. Liberals are continually in shock that the orange child is doing what he said he would do. And some things no one thought he would do. Conservatives continue getting orange dust on their lips. It's going to be a long fall for the U.S. and I'm afraid this stupid ridiculous Greenland situation will not even be in news in a few months(no matter how it turns out) as things get even stupider and more rediculous. Many more deaths in the U.S. More democratic institutions destroyed. Laws subverted in response to the backlash.
This really sucks for you. It's going to suck for everyone.
Just hoping obese shithole has a heart attack asap.
Keep that reddit shit out of my Lemmy.
FFS
Millions voted for the guy. Why? Because they were manipulated by billionaires using fear and hate media to win an election. You can be mad at the uneducated all you want, but the real fault lies with evil billionaire greed.
Brother, who do you think is responsible for their lack of education? Republicans who are funded by evil billionaires. I swear your next comment is going to be, "They just have to pull themselves up by the bootstraps." Not everyone has access to food let alone education. The privilege on this guy.
We are all responsible for our own actions. Allowing yourself to be fooled by propaganda is your fault, not anyone else's.
None of this changes until Americans collectively decide to change it and comments like yours only make people feel comfortable with the idea that they can't do anything to change it.
No. You are wrong. Of course we are responsible for our own actions. Pretending like the massive amount of propaganda that sways people's views while their education is being taken from them by the same people is ignorant. You are so convinced that they are wrong, and you are right. Why are you so sure that you haven't been controlled by media for your views? Do you blame North Koreans for being born in North Korea?
You don't see the obvious contradiction between these two statements? Quit making excuses and accept your part in all this.
Accept what part? What did I do?
Nothing at all. You're a perfect little angel who is totally blameless. There's nothing more you could have done or could be doing now to impact the situation even one bit.
You didn't answer my question. I think it's because you are arguing in bad faith.
Fuck Reddit and Fuck Spez.
I asbolutely do have some nuance for Russians. I am friends with many of them and realize they are powerless to topple the government because I'm not 14
I see all your posts. And I understand that the government does not speak for yourself. I have compassion for your situation, of course. But, truly, your "I am sorry" really is useless. Please don't go thinking that your "I am sorry" message is enough. That you are doing something. That message is akin to doing nothing. Hopefully, you are doing more than that.
And also, dear Americans, whatever it is you are doing, you could be doing more.
I am doing my part by shunning my family who still support him. But it's hard when for some reason my family (mother) wants to ignore that fact and not shun them so instead I am the one who is shunned and the outcast for not wanting to associate with the trumpers. The trumpets keep the family life and get to be prices of shit.
I mean there are people that would blame me for the CCP's actions just because I was born there... so... like...
lol
Now I guess I get double the blame for my family leaving China and now we have US Citizenship and voted blue every time 🙃, even tho like its really cis-het christian rich white men that controls all the media, and with that control, they have a huge sway over any "elections", not to mention, political parties have control of how the presidential primaries are run...
But sure, blame the civillians instead of those in power...
I mean, I get it... it's frustrating times and emotions are intense, but like... really? Lol
Thinkers who are unafraid to say the unorthodox like Slavoj Zizek are correct. People wanted drastic change away from neoliberal politics, and they got exactly what they wanted, but they don't like the results. Although to be fair, the Democrats has been blocking progressives from being a viable and effective alternative against fascists. The Democratic party would rather lose democracy than lose their economic privileges. I don't really look up to Noam Chomsky anymore but he said along the lines that the American institution was explicitly founded to protect the capital and keep the ordinary people as far away as possible from actual decision making. I didn't consider that position until we got to where we are now. Both parties' first and foremost priority is to protect the wealthy and powerful. Yes, I know the Democrats are still the lesser evil, but they act as good cop
pigwhile the Republicans act as bad coppig. And we all know what we say about cops, they are there to protect the capital first, not the people, no matter if they are good or bad.It is funny people in the US and outside of the US believe that it is a democracy and that the people have say in the government
As an Spanish citizen I understand the reaction. We had the same problem with Aznar. More than half of the people hated him (some of us still do 10 years later, me included) but he threw us into the GW2 that, as "a present" gave us the biggest terrorist attack in Spain.
Okay I guess I'm not sorry.
I don’t agree with this sentiment in principle, but I do sympathize.
Y’all have to hear about our bullshit all the time and the little online apology tours some of us do will not move the needle. Sometimes we just gotta read the room and stfu until we have something good to bring to the table.
At this point i feel like my most efficient praxis would just be a guide on what to do if you think this shit is fucked
Doing what I can. There are many problems. Trying to use whatever white privilege I have to protect (literally) my neighbors from ICE - they're carrying their passports around the neighborhood on walks now, so they can't exactly go protest and tell ICE to fuck themselves. Trying to use my skills to organize, I started a network of queer men in my very Southern state so we have a place to be, to be safe, to organize. Trying to use my ability to mentor to help trans people do the same. I don't know what I'm supposed to do about Trump and Greenland. Europe you need to step it up a bit here, wringing your hands about "not wanting to escalate" with Trump is not going to save anyone. Use that trade bazooka. Use whatever you have. We are all in this, we will all suffer in what's to come.
I have asked every maga I know if they are signing up for the Trump wars and sending them Army, Navy, and marine sign up paper work. There’s not much I can do besides vote. I keep telling everyone this. That I guarantee like I do every year. That I will vote. But that is all I can do to stop this madness. Sure I can speak out and march. But it comes down to voting this fall.
This is what trump does. He divides. My honest reaction to reading this "man fuck this asshole". But they're right. We need to burn this system and administration to the fucking ground. Age limit on president at 60-65, no billionare presidents, put the racist fascist fucks back in their place, charge and convict every single complicit cunt in this regime. Tear down and burn every single thing trump has put in place. Nobody gives a fuck if you apologize to foreigners on trumps behalf. You wanna do something? Vote. If you live in a city where ice is present then get out there and record, take pictures, blow whistles and horns. Talk to the next Gen voters, teens and young adults, advocate and teach for what is right.
The regime wants us to hate each other so we aren’t hating them.
Why give them what they want? The average American has no interest in Greenland. A lot of Donald’s actions are unpopular, even with many of his supporters.
We should all unite against fascism everywhere. Fascists are the enemy. Thats our best chance at stopping them.
I'm done trying to please everyone. I don't even like everyone.
Go go nuck urselves!
It's everyone responsibility not just americans, if you use reddit you are part of the problem.
This person is likely not from Greenland. There are only ~40k people in Greenland and only 10-15% of the population have working English, although more can understand it. Thats 6k people that could have crafted that message, and of that we can assume that only a minority would use reddit. That leaves maybe a couple thousand people.
I'm not saying it couldn't be a Greenlander, but the odds are much higher that this is just a random person from Europe, or even an angry American.
There's about sixty thousand people living in Greenland.
Why would they go and do that to our dear President Trump?
What a dumbass take. It doesn't matter one bit even if you could check.
Yes it does matter. What if it turns out he's a Russian troll posing as a Greenlander?
Your inbaility to understand what's important is very pathetic.
Russian troll. Saying to Americans to STFU? It that's true then even a broken clock is right twice a day
Your bigotry is not appreciated
Your pointless response is also not appreciated.
It's not pointless. If you had half a fucking brain, you'd realize your bigotry means that not only are you wrong on a factual basis, but you're a hateful moron, too.
Very pointless and also misguided and just wrong. Now also dumb. Your next one will maybe be vulgar?
"How does this keep happening!?"
The "while you still can" is the key here. America is a young country that hasn't had to go through a dictatorship. That's exactly what it's happening to them now and they fail to defuse it while it is possible they will go through a regime for the next 20-20. Because if something has taught us history is that no dictator has ever given up on power.
A large percentage of our population has been under dictatorship-like oppression for most/all of our history, including racial minorities, indigenous people, sexual minorities, and pretty much anyone who expresses a view to the left of, say, the CDU in Germany.
You, frankly, don't know what you're talking about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution
America is not a young country it has 250 years of continuous legal operation including surviving a civil war and having multiple presidents who have wielded similar authoritarian powers as Trump, but very few people can keep track of that because it’s such an old country and nobody knows history
We’ve had elections through every single war and cycle of corruption for 250 years so if history has taught us anything it’s that we are most likely going to see Trump and co voted out
How many people will pay with their lifes til Trump is voted out? Do you care?
What? Americans are dying on the front lines against Trump
He’s not killing euros he’s killing us
How many of you then?
Look around and find another country that's younger. Germany is the only one and they've been neighbors who take each other's side in fights for a few hundred before then so it's basically a united front.
What? There are dozens and dozens of younger countries. Or do you think they don't count because brown people live there?
South Sudan, for instance, is barely a decade and a half old.
Go find me countries that are older
America has been operating under the same constitution for 250 years
Egypt has been around for thousands of years but its current government is not continuous with the pharaohs
Maybe a constitution refresh every few centuries is what's needed
A lot of people skimming over Russia and China as well as various BRIC countries have been working to ensure the man got into office in the first place then sow division to make it harder to stop him. Why aren't people going after those enablers who have all but said they want to destroy various alliances and become de facto leaders?
That was to the point and blunt.
But it is easy to understand the reasoning.
Let's keep in mind how that society is geared: everyone is an asset to be exploited yet everyone person is out for themselves.
Even if someone does not see themselves as individualist, the mindset is there. And (trying to) apologize comes as a natural option: "I did not do it; don't take it on me. Blame someone else."
Americans need to make something for themselves. And I don't mean by taking up guns and go to the streets.
Oust politians. Pressure all levels of government. Make the country, on all levels, ingovernable. Break the system.
That's not possible. That's what you don't get. In your head it is 'so easy' but get some real world experience in politics and governing and you'll realize how intractable it all is.
The system is entrenched with lazy ignorant people on all levels. The voters, the politicians, the admins, the campaign finance system, etc. Nobody cares about principals or good governance... they just all want to get rich.
I've worked in local government and I have a sister who is a mayor of a small town.
Do you know what the #1 all people want is? More services, but fewer taxes. They want roads fixed, lots of police, schools etc, but they refuse to pay for any of it. nad if you explain to them that's now not how it works, the tell you to go f yourself and no govt job should get any pay and it's all corrupt and horrible. then they run for office, and the first thing they do is raise their own salary and give their kids/friends jobs and become the very thing they complain about.
You can't oust human hypocrisy, greed, and corruption. It's endemic. Very few people are 'good'. most are entirely self-interested. there are no philosopher kings in the real world. just corrupt assholes, some of who are smart enough to not be comically corrupt and game the system without consequences.
the only ones who get ousted are the comic book villian levels of corruption. everyone else is happy with moderate corruption especially the voters.
Can I take your reply for future reference? Because I have the same small government/lower taxes platform gainning traction around my parts.
I respect your take. Is it easy? No. Granted. But what is the option? Civil war? It's not. It is the last, direst option to be taken.
Aren't civil movements a thing? Citizen groups for running to political office?
And if people want more, they have to understand they either have to pay for it (Taxes! The price of civilization!) or they need to come up with a solution.
We take critics from who do it better, not from those that say they know it better.
I don't there is any options. People don't want to cooperate. They don't have any common sense of belonging anymore. Everything is us vs them.
Whenever you try to utter and common humanity or vision, people just blame you for being the opposite side. They refuse to see any common humanity in their political opponents.
Allow me to share this with you.
It was quite the eye opening. Broke more than a few thought and reasoning barriers for me. Hope it can do the same for you.
I understand what you are saying. It's the exact same modus operandi. They all read from the same book. I'm expecting my country to take a hard right in three years, with the next electoral cycle.
I respect every single word you are saying but you have to do something. Again, resorting to guns and violence will be even worst.
I can't believe I'm saying what I'm thinking but you need to start from the bottom and start disregarding popular demands and instead enact forceful change, even if it hurts. Get organized to take strategic places without resorting to force and then just do things that actually do better, for all.
I'd start now, going from street to street, making a list of what is wrong, broken or failling and start budgeting. Make people wonder what I'm doing and talk with them. Never asking for support. Just making myself be seen.
You do something. Stop being a coward and demand other people do things for you. All you are doing is jerking yourself off in your head.
What you don't get is when you do those things, you invite violence and hatred into your life. You go start ''talks with them" and see how you much you enjoy it when people are calling for you to be beaten up or killed because they don't like the color of your skin or what's between your legs.
I'm not in the US. I'm not american.
Would I do something if I was there? Yes, I would. I find no satisfaction in seeing people die because of their skin colour, their ethnicity, their gender or sexual preference, their beliefs or lack of or for what they think and take as better for all.
If it is not for you, americans, living in your country, to put everything at stake to change something, anything, no one will. And if someone decides to do so, then it will not be to defend the people.
My country took down a fascist regime 50 ago. One of my grandfathers was part of the political police then. I know the kind of people that gets recruited to such organizations. I know how those people think about themselves or others. I don't want to see anyone go through that, ever again. Anywhere.
We are human beings, not cattle, not numbers on a spreadsheet or a name on a piece of paper to be crossed out.
People have died, are dying and will die until your people, your country, decides it is enough and ends the madness that as taken over. And that may call and cause even more loss of human lives. But you are not slaves.
Greenlanders being like "literally do anything but talk"
Americans "That's all we know how to do"
Trump is the democratically elected leader of America, backed by their democratically elected legislative bodies. The country has multiple safeguards and systems by which he can be removed from power or by which his authority could be curtailed. They have not been used. America has the most heavily armed citizenry on earth.
He is, quite literally, the legitimate leader of American.
This is not a "Trump problem" it's an America problem. It doesn't vanish when he's gone and your apologies don't matter.
America is the worst democracy in the west, even before Trump.
He proved those "safeguards" don't fucking work, and he LOST the popular vote both times.
So if you think the US should've been immune to this, you're only demonstrating how absolutely ignorant you are on how the system actually works.
Y'know, the system designed by America's original oligarchs, that only wanted land owners to have the right to vote, didn't care about women's rights, and were fine with carrying on with slavery... It was specifically designed to subvert the will of the masses, and that's exactly what it's done.
Trump won the popular vote for his second term, and all those safeguards work, when the people who run them want them to work.
But the people who run them don't want them to work. We (the people you're blaming in these comments) don't have the power to impeach, or invoke the 25th Amendment. And many on the left are thoroughly anti-gun and thus don't own any. We are resisting, but you seem to think we can just march into DC and shoot all the Nazis - problem solved. It doesn't work like that.
This is the result of your votes. Every person in the legislature bodies and oval office won their elections. The safeguards don't work when the situation is what the voters asked for.
There's not a single person I have ever voted for who is currently in office.
You really have no fucking clue.
I'm not the one who is letting their country become the next Nazi Germany despite the fact that its plainly obvious to everyone that its happening.
Tell me what I, personally, should be doing right now that I'm not doing. And don't list anything that you wouldn't be willing to do in the same situation.
He won 49.8% of the popular vote of those who voted. That's not a majority.
"When the people who run them want them to work"
Yes, exactly. Now, who runs those safeguards? Is it every single American? Or a few rich pieces of shit Americans have been complaining about for decades?
Also how did that impeachment safeguard work? Oh what's that, it didn't? How about the electoral college, who's ONE JOB is to keep unqualified people out of office even if they're popular? What's that, they voted him in anyways? Your position is still one of ignorance.
Which was more votes than the other person got, which is what "winning the popular vote" literally means.
NO safeguard in any democracy is intended to invalidate a vote of the people. This is what you guys wanted and its what you got. You can't remove him because most of you STILL want him.
rofl "no safeguard in any democracy is intended to invalidate the vote of the people"
yea... that's exactly why Trump won in 2016. Do you even think before you type?
Trump won the election in 2016 by the stated rules of that election. I get that you don't like those rules, but you have had nearly 300 years to change them and didn't.
Ahh yes, I've been alive for 300 years, and there totally hasn't been a constant pressure from people with FAR more resources than 99% of Americans to make things worse, but you go off on how your foolish bigotry is suddenly correct!
The most American comment section. A bunch of white liberals getting defensive about how they can’t possibly do more and whining about their good intentions- anything to avoid shutting the fuck up and hearing what the rest of the world is telling them. Same as it ever was, and the reason they find themselves where they are in 2026.
Reddit being reddit. Let's leave that over there where it belongs. If you agree or disagree with the redditor, type your own post with your own spin on their take.
I have to agree. Americans soiled themselves, and now expect the rest of the world to come clean them up. Sorry, you might do something yourself too.
There's nothing more American.
Then sitting on your ass while everything goes to shit. Then getting up and going "can someone clean this up for me"
Ok, here's the deal. It's all about effort.
Actually trying to get rid of the orange child rapist takes actual effort. And by looking at the laughable protests about the obese paedo shows putting any effort in just won't happen.
However posting up a quick sorry message can be done from the comfort of their sofa. Less effort and they feel all warm and fuzzy about it whilst -yet again- doing fuck all about the dementia riddled corrupt kiddie fiddler.
ITT: Americans who don't understand geopolitics, nothing new there.
But, we consistently voted for the lesser of two evils. We're not sure how we ended up with evil. /s
“Trump is a jackass, Americans hate him”
Well, he still has a lot of support from everyday USAian people (42% at time of post) and there’s even more who are just silently going with the flow (so much for all the “freedumb” bald eagle posturing). He’s only 8.5 points less popular than Obama.
But more importantly, congress and senate are jerking off their corporate sponsors, and the corporate sponsors are blowing Trump with gold statuettes. These are the duly elected representatives of the People.
Downvote me all you want, but numerically, it is all Americans. Until there’s a revolt. It was “all Germans” too. Y’all are too chickenshit to react.
All-or-nothing thinking is part of what got you folks into this mess. If the problem is not purely political but also cultural, you can both be responsible, and actively trying to fix it.
Build local antifascist institutions and cultural reform by talking to each other about it. Call out jingoistic individualism. Participate in walking away from oligarch capital at every opportunity possible. Lots and lots of protests, and all the hidden active support logistics. It’s a long list, so I will just add in study history in small mutual education groups.
Minneapolis seems to be in a state of protest, but it’s not clear.
Maybe - MAYBE 5% of Americans are involved in protest. Get that over 30% before you come here telling me that USAians don’t support invading former allies.
The world is tired about hearing of how many heroes there are protesting in the USA while it’s plainly evident that millions are just going about their daily life. Nobody should be at work. “We don’t support Trump” sent from your office doesn’t do fuck all for the rest of the world.
Yes, that commenter and you are part of the problem. Lack of nuance fools upvoting the OOP too...
I gave you a solution, but you USAians can’t act on it. Your defeatist attitudes are why we’re upset.
I can’t vote in your election and I cant visit your country to protest and your representatives don’t read mail from foreigners. You can do all those things.
I’m
eagerly anticipating newsnot hearing of violent repression of the protest in major cities like NYC, Atlanta, Houston, Seattle, and SF.One woman in one city does not a massacre make.
Edited - it’s not my intent to make it seem that I am eager for violence. I’m eager to hear of the mass protests, not the violent repression. However, I haven’t heard any news of mass protests outside of MLPS.
I'm not gonna make any sweeping statements about the country, but you did mention my city so I'll just give my appraisal of the situation here. We're not getting massacred in the street, but protests are big and frequent. They're mostly nonviolent, and serve the purpose of connecting people with organizations they can continue to work with after everyone goes home. Mutual aid, bail funds, lots of other local orgs doing good work under the radar. Huge counterprotests too when fascists come to the city to hold rallies.
Police have still found "cause" to crack down on protests and disperse them with pepper spray, make arrests, etc. ICE still abducts people here, despite the best efforts of our reporting network and protests meant to slow down operations. And we haven't seen a full-scale occupation yet like what is happening in Minneapolis. But we are gearing up to be ready when it happens. I of course wish more people were involved, but there is substantial work being done here.
Many more than one person has died. She was a breaking point for a specific city.
That's because ICE is too chickenshit to come to large cities because they know they'll get torn apart there.
Stop trying to make “USAians” happen. It sounds dumb. Especially with the i (why not just USAans? It sounds less awkward). Anyway, I’m sure things aren’t perfect where you live, so WhY dOnT U quit uR JorB??????
It's a lot less than that. 5% (or even 3.5%, which is what the research says is necessary to win) would be an incredible success.
Fuck off you ignorant troll. It's not 40% of ALL Americans, just the people being asked the question. This poll did not go out to 300 Million people. It was likely a few hundred people in front of a market that don't care and respond with whatever to get the questions to stop.
Americans are dying in a one sided resistance to right wing violence and you think it's okay to say they are dying for nothing. That we are all like this. Fuck you. Learn to understand distinction and differences.
“I don’t understand statistics but here’s why the polling is wrong.”
How many, exactly? One woman in MLPS? Get off the keyboard and grab a sign.
Maybe just block him, and not say too much about having brain cells...
"Numerically"
wow, you really ARE a complete moron if you confuse a wrong 40% with 100%...