Trump just "pardoned" an Oregon(?) state election official, convicted on state charges of (?)election interference. It's symbolic, not I fully expect them to try to press that through officially.
It was Colorado, and it was purely symbolic. If his DOJ were to take this one to the Supreme Court, and SCOTUS rules in favor of the Trump Admin, then the US Constitution, which is currently only wounded (gravely), would be truly dead.
it seems to all the world that the trump admin can basically declare whatever the fuck they want and america will just go with it. He could tweet that everyone must send their children to the newly founded "Pedophile Enrichment Center" and A LOT of people would comply and do their best to make those around them comply.
"He's a good man - good man. Plays Shasta with his grandmother. Expert at gun safety. Tops gun safetyman. Loves children. Loves them like hisb own! Hasn't been a problem until that one left wing Marxist extremist family indoctrinating their children at a local Antifa gathering..."
Study those facial expressions very closely. Look at what's happening here, because this is so indicative of the mindset of racists.
You look at most criminals at their sentencing, you tend to see either resignation, or remorse. There is neither here.
This is shock. This is disbelief. They did monstrous, horrifying things to innocent people, while fully believing that they had an absolute and unquestionable right to do those things.
When a guy robs a gas station, he knows it's a crime. He's simply reasoning that committing this crime is better for him than the alternatives. He knows it's a risk. He knows he will be punished if he is caught.
But these people saw no risk in what they were doing. They believed that the world protect them and celebrate their actions. They believed that it was their right and their imperative to terrorize people of colour.
Yup, those are the faces of finding out. What they did was monstrously evil, threatening to kill kids because they weren't the white colour. I imagine he's probably realizing as well that he's going to be beaten a lot in jail for this. Given the incarceration rate of PoC being higher there's going to be a welcome for him he'll regret if they don't immediately put him into solitary confinement. His life isn't just ruined, he may very well die in prison.
The woman has fully disassociated at this point, she's just got the "going through the motions" look of someone who had the worst news of their life handed to them and don't know how to process it.
The fact that he will essentially now be forced to do that in order to survive prison really is an indictment of the system. How are people supposed to rehabilitate when not joining a gang is likely to get them killed?
I'm not saying this guy is necessarily rehabilitatable, you have to have a particularly brainless mindset to even do this in the first place but in general it should be possible for people to improve in prison, otherwise what's the point, we might as well go back to public punishment and executions, since that's effectively what prison has now become. Minimum security prisons are probably closer to the ideal, but that's obviously not an option for all inmates.
The notion that Trump brought those things back is part of the exact problem I'm highlighting.
They never went away. America continues to be a deeply racist country, the kind of country that make people like this not only a possibility, but an inevitability.
For two days, the couple and the nearly dozen others waved the flags while aboard pickup trucks and targeted their slurs and threats at black families in counties outside Atlanta.
In Douglasville, the couple, among others, reportedly yelled racial slurs at the birthday party’s attendees as they drove by. Torres also threatened to kill the people at the party with a shotgun Norton had loaded and retrieved from his truck, the district attorney’s office said in a statement on Facebook.
Grandpa told them stories about lynching the uppity ones. This garbage is passed down in the family.
I grew up in rural PA. I left because (among other similar issues) the community was A-ok with a small engine repair shop having the proprietor's full name on the big sign out front. His name was Kermit K. Kistler. His parents named him that, and he was proud enough to display it for all to see.
the proprietor’s full name on the big sign out front. His name was Kermit K. Kistler.
That's a very intentional choice. Most small businesses in small towns get named "[lastname]'s [type of business]" and I can't think of any small businesses around me the specify the first name of who it is, even when its a family with lots of entrepreneurs and you see that family name on like 4 different businesses in town. Like your family name is a source of reputation in these small towns so when you're starting out it's better to use just the family name because everyone knows a [lastname] and sure the business is actually owned by their cousin but at least you know someone related to it so you know they'll do good work
Its a dogwhistle. That's what racists do is they'll have some dogwhistle to signal to other racists that they're also in the in group. In this case it's intentionally listing out the owners full name so they can see his name initializes to K.K.K. (which i pointed out in another comment that most businesses in small towns don't specify a first name, it's just "lastname's type of business" so in this case "Kistlers Engine Repair" since you don't know if it'll be Kermit or Emmit or Kermit's grandson John Kistler serving you but you at least know it'll be a Kistler running the place)
I think it's more like, if you knew your initials were a dog-whistle, you would probably keep that on the d/l or change your name. Instead, putting it on display is like saying that fact is not a deal-breaker for you or your business.
After watching countless interrogation videos, they are not only crying because they got caught. They are also crying cause they are going to jail and that their life is ruined now. If sentence would not be incarceration, they'd be happy and with a smile. It is always "am I going to jail?" rather than an actual sense of guilt.
I posit that the husband knows very well the welcome he'll get in prison given how we predominately lock up PoC for even minor infractions then mistreat them.
He is, but I don't believe he's stupid. Pardoning those two would create a bigger impetus to flip the state. Especially in a climate now where people are already quite fed up with republicans.
So what they have to do is commit more crimes until it's bumped up to a federal case. Like do the same thing but in a national park. They better get on that real fast.
Why do you think ignoring problems will make them go away? Are you a fucking toddler? Pretending not to see it won't do anything to stop Trump from finding out about it
I honestly can't imagine thinking this is what one wants to do with their time. Like, I accept that I can't understand this sort of racism and such, but like, even if I was a bigot I can't imagine deciding that what I'm going to do with one of my afternoons is drive around threatening a child's birthday party.
But also, it amazes me that white Americans manage to feel aggrieved by black Americans even today. We're the ones who keep fucking them over not the other way around.
the term is "radicalized" but it's used so often it's lost all meaning. I'll bet good money these fucks were consuming conservative media, eventually one or both of them reached the tipping point where they basically thought they were soldiers in a day-to-day war, they feel emboldened because there are so many like-minded people bubbling up these days, they felt like they had a big community behind them thanks to the parasocial effects of conservative media.
These people obviously didn't grow up right, but absent today's fucked up hate pipeline that is conservative (read: almost all) media, I doubt they'd have been radicalized enough to do this.
It does show how right we were over the past decades, warning that latent racism had not ceased but instead was simmering under the surface of Everytown America.
For real turn on a conservative radio station every now and then to hear just completely unhinged bullshit. They jack that retard muscle hard on those stations
I think you've put the cart before the horse, sorry to yell at clouds but I was raised in a "small town" and I can tell you that racism was rampant long before the media became so invasive (pre-internet).
They're not trying to influence as much as they are chasing the dollar, they are catering to a big market. These people have always thought they were race warriors, and holy at that.
That's disgusting and all, but 15 and 20 years is a little excessive, no? I'm from a country without mass incarceration or private prisons, but you don't need nearly that much for people to learn their lesson
They were waving around guns. That is assault by threatening someone's life. Also complete disregard for public safety. It is a felony just brandishing a gun when not threatened yourself.
Even still if there's no other record of violent behavior I imagine barring them from firearm possession, 5 years in prison, and 5 years probation would do the trick.
All punitive justice is good for is giving more slaves to the prison complex. Rehabilitation is better for everyone. It's not only cheaper but also creates better (ie safer) outcomes for society.
After 20 years what will they even have to live for anymore? This is why people re-offend.
You're correct, but anyone from the US, whether they're on the furthest right or the furthest left, is going to have an incredibly hard time understanding why. Their country is deeply indoctrinated with this notion that anything less than the death penalty is basically a slap on the wrist, and even the progressive segments of their populace have mostly failed to ever meaningfully address or deconstruct this sentiment. Left/right disagreements over justice in the US tend to look more like disagreements over which things you should get put in prison for life for, rather than positing that such extensive prison terms being normal across the board might not be healthy for a society.
What this couple did is horrific, and it deserves a very serious penalty, and the problem then becomes that because the bar for "Very serious penalty" is set at "Spend most of your life in prison", arguing for anything less than that feels like siding with these monsters against their victims.
American here as well. Prison reform is needed, it's modern slavery. But these people are Nazis and I do feel no remorse being intolerant of their actions in society. Rehabilitation or exile I do think are appropriate ways forward. It's not the people that aren't reasonable, it's our laws and two tiered justice system.
This isn't an example of that. My alternatives were rehabilitation or exile, which I suppose could be argued isn't reform as we've exiled people as punishment for like as long as we've been people, but I'm really having a hard time seeing how I said "except in the case of x" I said you should be mean to Nazis, not lock them up for life.
I never said to tolerate their actions. I said the punishment does not fit the crime and better serves feeding the prison system slaves.
Some people take the idea of not tolerating intolerance to mean we ourselves must become the fascists. I reject that. We don't have to go high when they go low but we certainly shouldn't go lower when they go low.
Now of course big fucking astrix for our current situation. Revolution is starting to look like our only way out of the current administration.
But on the topic of prison reform that's a bit different.
Also exile is just a terrible idea, and it's a very antiquated one. Arguably the way it was presented was just an extension of colonialist/imperialist ideal. "Hello poor nation we've decided to ship you our undesirables. Good luck with that"
Sorry I didn't mean to imply that you were tolerating their actions lol. I agree that the punishment doesn't fit the crime.
My idea of exile, just a thought in my head, would be that it would be a choice to go through rehabilitation or leave society. If a person refuses to stop being intolerant, what is the solution? They can refuse treatment, act in bad faith, and I don't think forcing compliance ever helped anything. So what do we do?
I get that exile is kind of a terrible antiquated idea, but if we cannot tolerate intolerance and the offender refuses to change what is the solution?
Are you claiming that actually everyone in America agrees with you on this point, or are you simply agreeing with me, in a very roundabout way, that talking to Americans about prison reform is incredibly difficult and that you and your friends represent the rare exceptions?
We don't have a system of rehabilitative justice and we're not going to start having one any time soon, so the options available to us for dealing with these shitbags are either lock them up or let them keep doing what they're doing, I think preferring option 1 is extremely reasonable
If we had anything resembling a reliable system for rehabilitation of violent ideologues in this country your plan would be a good one, but we don't so it isn't. Not a false dichotomy, just one you don't like. I'm on ML because communism is the future, the present is dogshit and our options are dogshit.
You forgot the real option. Which is supporting reasonable sentences focused on rehabilitation.
There are very few offenses where a human deserves to be locked up for 20 years.
Also let's not pretend you wanted to imprison them indefinitely. You wanted to deport them, mutilate them, and dump them on a poor nation. You either didn't care or think about whether or not these African nations want our criminals, but what they think doesn't matter right? As long as you hurt the right people?
That's not even getting into the American centrism that assumes people in Africa know all about the American civil war
edit: actually this does not refer to who you were referring to. He seems more like your typical Usian liberal.
If I had to place a bet, I would replace "Americans" with "Russian Trolls". You look at this guy's account, all he does is stir up shit. I honestly have trouble believing that anyone in the USA has the time to sit and troll all day. That requires a wage, such as they exist in St. Petersburg.
Those kids will never feel safe walking around. Every time someone raises their voice, they have to wonder, "Was this directed at me? Am I going to die?" They will look at their skin and wonder what they did to deserve this. The hate. The threat of violence. At a birthday, where people celebrate.
This trauma lasts longer than their prison sentence.
murder is cheap I guess. meanwhile being a pedophile rapist that can reveal most politicians and CEOs as also pedophile rapists is a death suicide sentence
It's not that "murder is cheap", it's that many countries figured out that holding a person indefinitely in prison doesn't do anything for their rehabilitation, only puts money in the prison's owner's pocket.
The point of most European prisons is to get the prisoner to understand and repent their crime, teach them some useful skills, and send them back to be a productive member of society. The point of US prisons is to just eliminate a person from public life in revenge.
Good luck with this one. The American idea of adjudication for crime is so utterly fucked by indoctrination from decades of propaganda for privatized prison systems. It doesn’t matter if you point out that lengthy prison sentences do nothing to serve the public good, that research shows they do essentially nothing in terms of serving as a deterrent, that encouraging rehabilitation and correcting systemic issues that lead to crime would be the thing to truly address these issues. Let alone the systemic issues abound in the American justice system; that enforcement of crimes are disproportionately skewed to impact people of low SES and minority status, that this whole system is a front to enable modern day slavery.
Ultimately these people are just bloodthirsty and this gives them an outlet for that. They are vindictive and want an outlet for revenge fantasies. Just mention sex offenders and see how they become awful right wing weirdos with violent torture fantasies out of a saw movie.
Fair point, Epstein was taken out. However a disgusting orange blob can also become president of the united state of fascism using that very same information and tactics.
If someone waved a gun at my kid and threatened to kill him, I’d want that person incarcerated for at least 15 years.
My kid has a right to feel safe around his own home / neighborhood. Nobody has the right to make him feel like his life is in direct danger from them, just for being outdoors.
armred robbery, threatening to kill are all felonies they carry heftier sentences. the woman was later released early, like within the few months of being charged.
it's about sending a message, and protecting the public. not rehabilitation.
this is the core difference between European prisons and US prisons.
I bet people in your country don't go violently brandishing guns around at children, but if someone did you would probably feel like 15-20 years wasn't enough.
Put it this way: not only being a direct risk of death to everyone there by pointing a firearm at them but also advocating the death, exile, or enslavement of everyone of the same race.
I'd just add up all the years of the lives they threatened at the party. I wouldn't even be opposed to hanging them, since they were waving enemy flags.
Without any other details, yes, those are absurdly long sentences. Sending a tough message would be like 5 years maybe? Anyone supporting this kind of sentencing deserves a longer prison term than the couple.
I was about to say that I don't think their political beliefs should affect their sentencing. But I guess it does point to the likelihood of recurrence, which should affect the sentencing.
I'm glad I'm not a judge. This sort of decision would keep me up at night.
I just saw your other comment. Lmao it is a new one that you bottom of the barrel worthless dumbfuck fake leftists would call your moral and intellectual superior a fascist for advocating for less prison time.
Given that the OOP obviously isn't trying to paint them in a sympathetic light or anything (last sentence makes that crystal clear), why on Earth did they leave out the armed threats, the by-far-most-damning aspect of what those two did?
So you can easily drum up false outrage by presenting the alternate universe these people live in where any ol’ white person might receive 15-20 year prison sentences for just driving past the wrong upset black person
This is the world as presented by almost the entire media news and tech industries who are right wing aligned or actually just owned by individual right wing men outright.
I don't think "Hate has consequences" is a sentence someone trying to create clickbait to rile up racists would add to the end of this. I really don't get the impression they were deliberately trying to trivialize or minimize the crimes.
I’m skeptical the person posting is even a person.
But if they are they’ve likely copied the headline directly because it’s unlikely they typed it out themselves in that manner. It reads exactly like a headline not what someone says themselves upon reposting such an article. They may have added the hate has consequences themselves.
I don’t want to come off as unreasonable but we are being subjected to the most significant domestic and international propaganda efforts ever seen in human history.
There is really no other plausible explanation for leaving the fact they were armed out of the headline other than minimizing the perceived offense to make it seem like an unreasonable punishment.
My guess, without knowing the case, would be that he was brandishing the weapon and making the direct threats, making her "just" an accessory to the crime therefore lesser charge and sentence.
Legal rulings usually take into account the role one serves in a crime, so e.g. in case of a bank robbery, the "just driver" won't get as harsh a sentence as the others, as the driver usually doesn't waltz into the bank demanding the money, therefore those charges don't directly apply.
So normal that this knowledge became part of the sentencing process. I knew a guy who was in prison for some drug related charges. (Basically he grew up with no money in a bad part of town, while on some kind of a drug binge he killed a guy who was also on a drug binge and trying to kill him, so from his perspective he kinda woke up one day in prison and had no clue what happened during his binge and just had to take everyone else's word for what had gone down)
Anyways he was sentenced to something like 30 years for murder back in the 90s with the expectation that he'd be out in 10-15 years, but instead he spent years 20-23 of his sentence fighting tooth and nail to get parole, and in that process actually got the original judge to write a letter of recommendation where the judge specified he sentenced to 30 with the intention and expectation of him going on parole long before that point.
His life was truly a tragedy though, he ended up passing away from an undiagnosed heart condition less than a year after going on parole, and his wife was dying of something at the same time so his estranged brother had to handle the estate and ultimately he only got to live his best life for about 6 months.
I'm thinking that's his face being caught in time, where there was actually motion. Those eyebrows do really look sad and remorseful. But I don't gaf. They deserve the punishment.
I dunno there's something about his face that seems like he's spent his whole life copying emotion, not actually feeling them, it's a pretty convincing copy, I agree, but it reads disingenuous to me. Does he actually have tears, because that's a classic tell, psychopaths will pull the "cry face" like they're crying, and wipe at their face, as if there's tears, but there isn't tears. I'm betting he's trying to emotionally provoke a lighter sentence. I don't think he's sad at all. I would bet his predominant feeling would actually be anger.
There's also our bias to consider. I saw his face before I read what they did, and his face looked perfectly genuine to me. Also crying can start before tears show, so there isn't definitive proof here obviously.
But yeah, what your gut tells you could also be perfectly true as well!
Yeah, I saw the face before I read anything, it was his face that told me he'd done something fkd up. I notice not many people can tell faked emotions. I don't think I'm special, in that I can, I just had a very close up, long lasting education on it, that took me nearly 20 years to click on to, so maybe I'm actually slow on the uptake. But now, I can't unsee it, now I can spot a faked emotion, in a nanosecond.
I'm usually pretty sensitive to that as well. "As an empath" or whatever. 😆 I just don't feel like there's enough to go on from this freeze frame. It looks super faked as a picture, I will agree(!), I just can't be sure what's going on if we had video, you know? That's all I got. 😁
thats because she got released soon after she was charged, like months later. white woman privilege is real, the more attractive you are the lesser the sentence you get for a crime.
... Ohhhhhhhh actually yeah that makes sense.
Okay yeah! It's an archetype that existed independently and Aaron Paul DOES nail it! Like, just aesthetically--as far as i know he's actually a very good person hence my worry. He perhaps inadvertently made that entire demographic look better XD
"Now you can't even just peacefully drive in your car anymore and do nothing else than driving your own car, which is what they were convicted for - merely driving in their car? Wokeness has gone too far!"
The face of a woman who just realized that sometimes, loyalty should not be above everything. The same face of all the convicted concentration camp workers, who were ordered to kill.
Hahaaaaa have fun finding out you stupid fucks! Glad they got prison time and the judge wasn’t weak. Fuck ‘em and let ‘em die in shit, where they belong.
Race motivated terroristic threats while armed and menacing, highly likely to re-offend given their motivations. Still seems like a lot but it may be enough to protect that family and others from similar threats.
This high of a sentence is almost impossible to get for a first offense, I don't know the specifics of this law, but it screams maximum sentence, which screams repeated offence, possibly with defiance of a specific rulling.
Those motherfuckers almost certainly had a hobby
From everything I've been able to find this isn't a repeat offender situation, they were tried and sentenced under Georgia's Street Gang Terrorism and Prevention Act since they were associated with a Confederate Flag "supporter" group called "Respect the Flag." These charges came shortly after the Charleston church massacre which may have influenced the severity of the punishment.
Basically a first offense resulting in maximum punishment due to the timing of the offense.
Idk, 15 and 20 years still seems excessive to me for a first offense. They are shitty people and so are the people they associated with, but if you apply this to every other shitty people criminal situation we'd have an even worse US incarceration issue than we do currently.
Hey racist POS! How ya doing? You do realize that in a criminal trial, there has to be evidence to ensure a conviction, right? The DA tried to put this criminal away, here's the statement she made:
This office overcame the loss of critical witnesses to secure felony convictions against Mr. Mohamed earlier this year. Because our case was substantially weakened, we could not get the prison sentence we wanted. Losing witnesses is one of the realities of prosecuting difficult sexual assault cases, something about which the current Justice Department knows little.
But hey, it's not about facts and details with low IQ types like yourself, is it?
Phew. A man is accused of rape and is suspected to be connected to J.E. have become the POTUS.
But really, the name of the Somalian animal is Abdimahat Billie Mohamed. The case is both very political for obvious reasons and strange: he came out of the court without jail time several times.
The face of a man who has had his privilege card revoked.
Probably soon pardoned by the Oval Office.
Fortunately, it doesn't have jurisdiction. It was a state offense.
Trump just "pardoned" an Oregon(?) state election official, convicted on state charges of (?)election interference. It's symbolic, not I fully expect them to try to press that through officially.
It was Colorado, and it was purely symbolic. If his DOJ were to take this one to the Supreme Court, and SCOTUS rules in favor of the Trump Admin, then the US Constitution, which is currently only wounded (gravely), would be truly dead.
I hadn't heard of the Oregon one. He tried that with an election official in Colorado, too, though. Unsurprisingly, she's still in prison.
it seems to all the world that the trump admin can basically declare whatever the fuck they want and america will just go with it. He could tweet that everyone must send their children to the newly founded "Pedophile Enrichment Center" and A LOT of people would comply and do their best to make those around them comply.
Happened in 2017.
The woman was released in 2020.
"He's a good man - good man. Plays Shasta with his grandmother. Expert at gun safety. Tops gun safetyman. Loves children. Loves them like hisb own! Hasn't been a problem until that one left wing Marxist extremist family indoctrinating their children at a local Antifa gathering..."
Study those facial expressions very closely. Look at what's happening here, because this is so indicative of the mindset of racists.
You look at most criminals at their sentencing, you tend to see either resignation, or remorse. There is neither here.
This is shock. This is disbelief. They did monstrous, horrifying things to innocent people, while fully believing that they had an absolute and unquestionable right to do those things.
When a guy robs a gas station, he knows it's a crime. He's simply reasoning that committing this crime is better for him than the alternatives. He knows it's a risk. He knows he will be punished if he is caught.
But these people saw no risk in what they were doing. They believed that the world protect them and celebrate their actions. They believed that it was their right and their imperative to terrorize people of colour.
Yup, those are the faces of finding out. What they did was monstrously evil, threatening to kill kids because they weren't the white colour. I imagine he's probably realizing as well that he's going to be beaten a lot in jail for this. Given the incarceration rate of PoC being higher there's going to be a welcome for him he'll regret if they don't immediately put him into solitary confinement. His life isn't just ruined, he may very well die in prison.
The woman has fully disassociated at this point, she's just got the "going through the motions" look of someone who had the worst news of their life handed to them and don't know how to process it.
He'll probably get a bunch of Nazi tattoos in prison.
The fact that he will essentially now be forced to do that in order to survive prison really is an indictment of the system. How are people supposed to rehabilitate when not joining a gang is likely to get them killed?
I'm not saying this guy is necessarily rehabilitatable, you have to have a particularly brainless mindset to even do this in the first place but in general it should be possible for people to improve in prison, otherwise what's the point, we might as well go back to public punishment and executions, since that's effectively what prison has now become. Minimum security prisons are probably closer to the ideal, but that's obviously not an option for all inmates.
Prison in the USA has always been a punishment, they tried to say "rehabilitation" for a period to change their image and gave up.
not just punishment, it's slave labour too.
her prison experience will be a lot different then his.
I read her very differently, but deciphering facial expressions never was my strong suit. To me her face looks indifferent to the situation.
Idoubt they found out anything. they are just confronted with the consequences.
The woman is “I’ll get out of this on appeal.”
Well written and very true.
Good points. And they aren't wrong if you look at how the country has changed negatively since Trump brought racism and hatred back.
The notion that Trump brought those things back is part of the exact problem I'm highlighting.
They never went away. America continues to be a deeply racist country, the kind of country that make people like this not only a possibility, but an inevitability.
Sad but true.
brought back is a bit generous, if not naive... he heightened it though for sure; created a permission structure.
Video of the flag convoy https://youtu.be/lu1GjHAiHZg
From https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/georgia-couple-gets-prison-time-racist-threats-childs-birthday-party
This happened 10 years ago, and they were sentenced 8 years ago.
I really dislike how twitter screenshots never have date stamps in them. Makes things look recent when posted.
Shits wild tho. Fuck those people.
Same, and we only know because someone kindly posted a source. Lots don’t even have that.
For fucks sake
WTF is wrong with these racist assholes?!
Grandpa told them stories about lynching the uppity ones. This garbage is passed down in the family.
I grew up in rural PA. I left because (among other similar issues) the community was A-ok with a small engine repair shop having the proprietor's full name on the big sign out front. His name was Kermit K. Kistler. His parents named him that, and he was proud enough to display it for all to see.
That's a very intentional choice. Most small businesses in small towns get named "[lastname]'s [type of business]" and I can't think of any small businesses around me the specify the first name of who it is, even when its a family with lots of entrepreneurs and you see that family name on like 4 different businesses in town. Like your family name is a source of reputation in these small towns so when you're starting out it's better to use just the family name because everyone knows a [lastname] and sure the business is actually owned by their cousin but at least you know someone related to it so you know they'll do good work
I mean, I get that the initials are KKK, and maybe even the parents did it intentionally... But should he not be allowed to have his name on his shop?
Its a dogwhistle. That's what racists do is they'll have some dogwhistle to signal to other racists that they're also in the in group. In this case it's intentionally listing out the owners full name so they can see his name initializes to K.K.K. (which i pointed out in another comment that most businesses in small towns don't specify a first name, it's just "lastname's type of business" so in this case "Kistlers Engine Repair" since you don't know if it'll be Kermit or Emmit or Kermit's grandson John Kistler serving you but you at least know it'll be a Kistler running the place)
I think it's more like, if you knew your initials were a dog-whistle, you would probably keep that on the d/l or change your name. Instead, putting it on display is like saying that fact is not a deal-breaker for you or your business.
😢 But I just wanted to be racist...
😭 The woke won't let me be racist!!!
Ah don't worry, they'll get a pardon for heroic acts of anti wokeness or something
State charges are not able to be presidentially pardoned, although if it's a red state the governor may just do it to capitulate.
This may surprise people, but politicians do not have the right to pardon people in most countries.
The way it should be
The woman already got released.
Figures. Yet people are doing twice as much time with no eligibility for early release for fucking weed.
Less people after Biden pardoned hundreds of them.
they are crying because they got caught, not because they felt guilty. its literally like how BRIAN "apologizes" to stewie
After watching countless interrogation videos, they are not only crying because they got caught. They are also crying cause they are going to jail and that their life is ruined now. If sentence would not be incarceration, they'd be happy and with a smile. It is always "am I going to jail?" rather than an actual sense of guilt.
I posit that the husband knows very well the welcome he'll get in prison given how we predominately lock up PoC for even minor infractions then mistreat them.
Don't give this too much attention or Trump will pardon them.
If it's state charges he can't pardon them. He only has federal pardon powers.
As if that small detail would stop the orange turd
Too true, nobody seems inclined to actually do anything to stop his illegal behavior.
What about Georgia's governor? Are they shitty?
He is, but I don't believe he's stupid. Pardoning those two would create a bigger impetus to flip the state. Especially in a climate now where people are already quite fed up with republicans.
So what they have to do is commit more crimes until it's bumped up to a federal case. Like do the same thing but in a national park. They better get on that real fast.
This sums up the left so perfectly.
Which part? Opposing racism? Consequences for criminals? Feel free to elaborate
Why do you think pleading with the left to not pay attention is an opposition to racism or a consequence. Please explain.
Why do you think ignoring problems will make them go away? Are you a fucking toddler? Pretending not to see it won't do anything to stop Trump from finding out about it
That is literally my point
You don't have a point
Getting some basic reading skills. Don't worry about engaging with this stuff until then
it's a shame they weren't tried as terrorists.
Then deported to El Salvadore
“Armed and threatening to kill”
That adds an entirely worse facet to it than the initial text lets on.
I honestly can't imagine thinking this is what one wants to do with their time. Like, I accept that I can't understand this sort of racism and such, but like, even if I was a bigot I can't imagine deciding that what I'm going to do with one of my afternoons is drive around threatening a child's birthday party.
But also, it amazes me that white Americans manage to feel aggrieved by black Americans even today. We're the ones who keep fucking them over not the other way around.
the term is "radicalized" but it's used so often it's lost all meaning. I'll bet good money these fucks were consuming conservative media, eventually one or both of them reached the tipping point where they basically thought they were soldiers in a day-to-day war, they feel emboldened because there are so many like-minded people bubbling up these days, they felt like they had a big community behind them thanks to the parasocial effects of conservative media.
These people obviously didn't grow up right, but absent today's fucked up hate pipeline that is conservative (read: almost all) media, I doubt they'd have been radicalized enough to do this.
It does show how right we were over the past decades, warning that latent racism had not ceased but instead was simmering under the surface of Everytown America.
For real turn on a conservative radio station every now and then to hear just completely unhinged bullshit. They jack that retard muscle hard on those stations
I think you've put the cart before the horse, sorry to yell at clouds but I was raised in a "small town" and I can tell you that racism was rampant long before the media became so invasive (pre-internet).
They're not trying to influence as much as they are chasing the dollar, they are catering to a big market. These people have always thought they were race warriors, and holy at that.
And this is why they want to defund NPR, poison Wikipedia, and enshrine Twitter in its place.
Can’t manufacture outrage with so many pesky fact checkers.
Those pictures show frustration with the punishment in the same way a toddler does. These people are messed up.
OH THEY WERE ARMED. Like I thought America wouldn't do this to white people just for shouting threats, but being armed makes it undeniable.
They will be pardoned shortly.
That's disgusting and all, but 15 and 20 years is a little excessive, no? I'm from a country without mass incarceration or private prisons, but you don't need nearly that much for people to learn their lesson
They were waving around guns. That is assault by threatening someone's life. Also complete disregard for public safety. It is a felony just brandishing a gun when not threatened yourself.
Even still if there's no other record of violent behavior I imagine barring them from firearm possession, 5 years in prison, and 5 years probation would do the trick.
All punitive justice is good for is giving more slaves to the prison complex. Rehabilitation is better for everyone. It's not only cheaper but also creates better (ie safer) outcomes for society.
After 20 years what will they even have to live for anymore? This is why people re-offend.
You're correct, but anyone from the US, whether they're on the furthest right or the furthest left, is going to have an incredibly hard time understanding why. Their country is deeply indoctrinated with this notion that anything less than the death penalty is basically a slap on the wrist, and even the progressive segments of their populace have mostly failed to ever meaningfully address or deconstruct this sentiment. Left/right disagreements over justice in the US tend to look more like disagreements over which things you should get put in prison for life for, rather than positing that such extensive prison terms being normal across the board might not be healthy for a society.
What this couple did is horrific, and it deserves a very serious penalty, and the problem then becomes that because the bar for "Very serious penalty" is set at "Spend most of your life in prison", arguing for anything less than that feels like siding with these monsters against their victims.
I'm an American though, and many of my friends agree with me on the topic of prison reform
American here as well. Prison reform is needed, it's modern slavery. But these people are Nazis and I do feel no remorse being intolerant of their actions in society. Rehabilitation or exile I do think are appropriate ways forward. It's not the people that aren't reasonable, it's our laws and two tiered justice system.
See, this is an excellent example of the point I just made.
Even when people say "I want prison reform" they inevitably always have some kind of carve out for "Except in the case of X."
Which means you don't actually have a problem with the current system. You just have a problem with who it gets applied to.
This isn't an example of that. My alternatives were rehabilitation or exile, which I suppose could be argued isn't reform as we've exiled people as punishment for like as long as we've been people, but I'm really having a hard time seeing how I said "except in the case of x" I said you should be mean to Nazis, not lock them up for life.
I never said to tolerate their actions. I said the punishment does not fit the crime and better serves feeding the prison system slaves.
Some people take the idea of not tolerating intolerance to mean we ourselves must become the fascists. I reject that. We don't have to go high when they go low but we certainly shouldn't go lower when they go low.
Now of course big fucking astrix for our current situation. Revolution is starting to look like our only way out of the current administration.
But on the topic of prison reform that's a bit different.
Also exile is just a terrible idea, and it's a very antiquated one. Arguably the way it was presented was just an extension of colonialist/imperialist ideal. "Hello poor nation we've decided to ship you our undesirables. Good luck with that"
Sorry I didn't mean to imply that you were tolerating their actions lol. I agree that the punishment doesn't fit the crime.
My idea of exile, just a thought in my head, would be that it would be a choice to go through rehabilitation or leave society. If a person refuses to stop being intolerant, what is the solution? They can refuse treatment, act in bad faith, and I don't think forcing compliance ever helped anything. So what do we do?
I get that exile is kind of a terrible antiquated idea, but if we cannot tolerate intolerance and the offender refuses to change what is the solution?
Are you claiming that actually everyone in America agrees with you on this point, or are you simply agreeing with me, in a very roundabout way, that talking to Americans about prison reform is incredibly difficult and that you and your friends represent the rare exceptions?
Your comment made it sound like you believed no American would agree with prison reform.
I thought this was amusing since you were replying to an American that at least associates with many that agree with me on prison reform.
To make the argument more direct I'd say you'll find a lot of Americans on the left that want a reform of our justice system
We don't have a system of rehabilitative justice and we're not going to start having one any time soon, so the options available to us for dealing with these shitbags are either lock them up or let them keep doing what they're doing, I think preferring option 1 is extremely reasonable
Well no, you could have given them a more reasonable sentence.
By putting them in prison for 20 years you're basically garunteeing they commit more crime when they get out. Congrats you've made society less safe.
Cool story, but as I said our reality is unfortunately limited to two shitty options and your idea isn't one of them
Unfortunately my original idea working within the system was ban on firearm ownership, 5 years prison, and 5 years probation.
Plenty punitive, but at least gives them a chance of reforming a life afterwards. Works completely fine without giving in to your false dichotomy
Honestly why are you even from .ml?
Also in case you're confused when I said rehabilitative justice is better that was entirely separate from my suggested sentence
There's no reforming from being a racist shitbag that threatens kids with guns. He can rot in prison for 50 years for all I care.
If we had anything resembling a reliable system for rehabilitation of violent ideologues in this country your plan would be a good one, but we don't so it isn't. Not a false dichotomy, just one you don't like. I'm on ML because communism is the future, the present is dogshit and our options are dogshit.
God your persecution fetish is weird. You would've vibed with the Puritans
You forgot the real option. Which is supporting reasonable sentences focused on rehabilitation.
There are very few offenses where a human deserves to be locked up for 20 years.
Also let's not pretend you wanted to imprison them indefinitely. You wanted to deport them, mutilate them, and dump them on a poor nation. You either didn't care or think about whether or not these African nations want our criminals, but what they think doesn't matter right? As long as you hurt the right people?
That's not even getting into the American centrism that assumes people in Africa know all about the American civil war
They threatened children with guns.
Yeah, this wasn't idle threatening behavior. This is the kind of behavior that if the police were involved would shoot the PoC on the spot.
Edit: There is no reasoning with Americans on this topic. It makes me sad. What a shithole country
edit: actually this does not refer to who you were referring to. He seems more like your typical Usian liberal.
If I had to place a bet, I would replace "Americans" with "Russian Trolls". You look at this guy's account, all he does is stir up shit. I honestly have trouble believing that anyone in the USA has the time to sit and troll all day. That requires a wage, such as they exist in St. Petersburg.
Lol cry about it shitwit
Those kids will never feel safe walking around. Every time someone raises their voice, they have to wonder, "Was this directed at me? Am I going to die?" They will look at their skin and wonder what they did to deserve this. The hate. The threat of violence. At a birthday, where people celebrate.
This trauma lasts longer than their prison sentence.
Source: me.
Did you miss the part at the bottom where they were using guns to threaten them?
15 years is the maximum¹ sentence for murder over here. Armed threats are a serious offense but not to this extent.
¹ you may be kept longer for security reasons if a judge deems you to pose a threat after that time.
murder is cheap I guess. meanwhile being a pedophile rapist that can reveal most politicians and CEOs as also pedophile rapists is a
deathsuicide sentenceIt's not that "murder is cheap", it's that many countries figured out that holding a person indefinitely in prison doesn't do anything for their rehabilitation, only puts money in the prison's owner's pocket.
The point of most European prisons is to get the prisoner to understand and repent their crime, teach them some useful skills, and send them back to be a productive member of society. The point of US prisons is to just eliminate a person from public life in revenge.
Good luck with this one. The American idea of adjudication for crime is so utterly fucked by indoctrination from decades of propaganda for privatized prison systems. It doesn’t matter if you point out that lengthy prison sentences do nothing to serve the public good, that research shows they do essentially nothing in terms of serving as a deterrent, that encouraging rehabilitation and correcting systemic issues that lead to crime would be the thing to truly address these issues. Let alone the systemic issues abound in the American justice system; that enforcement of crimes are disproportionately skewed to impact people of low SES and minority status, that this whole system is a front to enable modern day slavery.
Ultimately these people are just bloodthirsty and this gives them an outlet for that. They are vindictive and want an outlet for revenge fantasies. Just mention sex offenders and see how they become awful right wing weirdos with violent torture fantasies out of a saw movie.
But have you considered: systematic prison violence and rape = funny?
It's not cruel or unusual if it's only encouraged, not done, by the state.
And the legal slavery, dont forget about the legalized slavery. The north may have won our civil war, but the south won the peace.
Murder isnt just cheap in the US, it’s highly prized. They fetishise their military over there. Private companies employ armed guards. Its sick.
Fair point, Epstein was taken out. However a disgusting orange blob can also become president of the united state of fascism using that very same information and tactics.
Tbf I didn't see the bottom part until much later.
If someone waved a gun at my kid and threatened to kill him, I’d want that person incarcerated for at least 15 years.
My kid has a right to feel safe around his own home / neighborhood. Nobody has the right to make him feel like his life is in direct danger from them, just for being outdoors.
armred robbery, threatening to kill are all felonies they carry heftier sentences. the woman was later released early, like within the few months of being charged.
Yeah I'm not opposed to some involuntary rehabilitation given that they were threatening their victims with firearms, but 15 years is insane.
it's about sending a message, and protecting the public. not rehabilitation.
this is the core difference between European prisons and US prisons.
I bet people in your country don't go violently brandishing guns around at children, but if someone did you would probably feel like 15-20 years wasn't enough.
No.
Combined. Read the article
In America prisoners get lots of time off their sentences for good behavior. He could be out in 8-10 years if he doesn't get in trouble in prison.
Put it this way: not only being a direct risk of death to everyone there by pointing a firearm at them but also advocating the death, exile, or enslavement of everyone of the same race.
I'd just add up all the years of the lives they threatened at the party. I wouldn't even be opposed to hanging them, since they were waving enemy flags.
Imagine being this pro slavery without realizing you're being pro slavery
I think he and she realize but hard to tell, conservatives are dumb as bricks.
Without any other details, yes, those are absurdly long sentences. Sending a tough message would be like 5 years maybe? Anyone supporting this kind of sentencing deserves a longer prison term than the couple.
15 years for assaulting children seems appropriate.
If you’re an authoritarian fascist lunatic, absolutely.
I was about to say that I don't think their political beliefs should affect their sentencing. But I guess it does point to the likelihood of recurrence, which should affect the sentencing.
I'm glad I'm not a judge. This sort of decision would keep me up at night.
What a wonderful argument, definitely not fash sounding at all.
I just saw your other comment. Lmao it is a new one that you bottom of the barrel worthless dumbfuck fake leftists would call your moral and intellectual superior a fascist for advocating for less prison time.
Lawl, banned!
I hope you mean the people advocating for long prison sentences for them because if not, you’re the dumbest human being alive.
I suspect you are still a child yourself, but if you had children, visualize someone waving a gun in their face and threatening to kill them.
You're lying to someone, or else you are too young to really understand what has taken place here.
I love your argument of “you’re a child” instead of the fact that your superior is correct and you are a bottom of the barrel moron.
I assume this is a historic post and not anything that's happened recently.
Looks like 2017.
https://www.capradio.org/news/npr/story?storyid=517688757
So did they get pardoned by Trump or not?
Looks like state charges so Trump can't pardon them even if he wanted to.
Given that the OOP obviously isn't trying to paint them in a sympathetic light or anything (last sentence makes that crystal clear), why on Earth did they leave out the armed threats, the by-far-most-damning aspect of what those two did?
Good job by the community note.
It’s exactly as you think
white supremacists don’t read past the headline
So you can easily drum up false outrage by presenting the alternate universe these people live in where any ol’ white person might receive 15-20 year prison sentences for just driving past the wrong upset black person
This is the world as presented by almost the entire media news and tech industries who are right wing aligned or actually just owned by individual right wing men outright.
I don't think "Hate has consequences" is a sentence someone trying to create clickbait to rile up racists would add to the end of this. I really don't get the impression they were deliberately trying to trivialize or minimize the crimes.
I’m skeptical the person posting is even a person.
But if they are they’ve likely copied the headline directly because it’s unlikely they typed it out themselves in that manner. It reads exactly like a headline not what someone says themselves upon reposting such an article. They may have added the hate has consequences themselves.
I don’t want to come off as unreasonable but we are being subjected to the most significant domestic and international propaganda efforts ever seen in human history.
There is really no other plausible explanation for leaving the fact they were armed out of the headline other than minimizing the perceived offense to make it seem like an unreasonable punishment.
Because it's still useful to leave that out as it makes the story more of an outrage piece.
The big tough alpha MAGA cries when faced with the legal repercussions of his crimes.
Classic. I savor the Schadenfreude as I would the finest steak and lobster.
Hell yea. Gotta make the racists afraid again.
so she gets 5 less years for.... being a woman?
My guess, without knowing the case, would be that he was brandishing the weapon and making the direct threats, making her "just" an accessory to the crime therefore lesser charge and sentence.
Legal rulings usually take into account the role one serves in a crime, so e.g. in case of a bank robbery, the "just driver" won't get as harsh a sentence as the others, as the driver usually doesn't waltz into the bank demanding the money, therefore those charges don't directly apply.
More than that, she was actually released just a couple months after sentancing:
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/local/douglasville/kayla-rae-norton-on-parole-two-years-into-prison-sentence/85-dc2f8d57-b869-48da-b3fc-c7b41d8a60a6
Isn't it pretty normal to get parole halfway through the sentence for state crimes?
So normal that this knowledge became part of the sentencing process. I knew a guy who was in prison for some drug related charges. (Basically he grew up with no money in a bad part of town, while on some kind of a drug binge he killed a guy who was also on a drug binge and trying to kill him, so from his perspective he kinda woke up one day in prison and had no clue what happened during his binge and just had to take everyone else's word for what had gone down)
Anyways he was sentenced to something like 30 years for murder back in the 90s with the expectation that he'd be out in 10-15 years, but instead he spent years 20-23 of his sentence fighting tooth and nail to get parole, and in that process actually got the original judge to write a letter of recommendation where the judge specified he sentenced to 30 with the intention and expectation of him going on parole long before that point.
His life was truly a tragedy though, he ended up passing away from an undiagnosed heart condition less than a year after going on parole, and his wife was dying of something at the same time so his estranged brother had to handle the estate and ultimately he only got to live his best life for about 6 months.
also being attractive rather than ugly also helps.
She seems unfazed
She is a white woman, she knows she won't actually experience any real consequences for this.
Hey look, she was right: out after only a couple months: https://www.11alive.com/article/news/local/douglasville/kayla-rae-norton-on-parole-two-years-into-prison-sentence/
that dude knows he is fucked.
Good news for once
(This happened like a decade ago twitter is just reposting)
She was released in 2020 https://www.11alive.com/article/news/local/douglasville/kayla-rae-norton-on-parole-two-years-into-prison-sentence/85-dc2f8d57-b869-48da-b3fc-c7b41d8a60a6
Seems to forward to Youtube for visitors out of US. Here's an archived version: http://archive.today/w17Oa
Don't these stupid bastards have anything else better to do? Guess they have plenty of time to think about....was it worth it?
The best part was when he cried like a baby.
His cry face is so comical and forced. It's not even genuine. Even has very outwardly visible psychopathic tendencies, besides the actions.
I'm thinking that's his face being caught in time, where there was actually motion. Those eyebrows do really look sad and remorseful. But I don't gaf. They deserve the punishment.
He's not sad he did it, he's sad he got consequences
Bet you that's the case. Could be both, hopefully.
I dunno there's something about his face that seems like he's spent his whole life copying emotion, not actually feeling them, it's a pretty convincing copy, I agree, but it reads disingenuous to me. Does he actually have tears, because that's a classic tell, psychopaths will pull the "cry face" like they're crying, and wipe at their face, as if there's tears, but there isn't tears. I'm betting he's trying to emotionally provoke a lighter sentence. I don't think he's sad at all. I would bet his predominant feeling would actually be anger.
There's also our bias to consider. I saw his face before I read what they did, and his face looked perfectly genuine to me. Also crying can start before tears show, so there isn't definitive proof here obviously.
But yeah, what your gut tells you could also be perfectly true as well!
Yeah, I saw the face before I read anything, it was his face that told me he'd done something fkd up. I notice not many people can tell faked emotions. I don't think I'm special, in that I can, I just had a very close up, long lasting education on it, that took me nearly 20 years to click on to, so maybe I'm actually slow on the uptake. But now, I can't unsee it, now I can spot a faked emotion, in a nanosecond.
I'm usually pretty sensitive to that as well. "As an empath" or whatever. 😆 I just don't feel like there's enough to go on from this freeze frame. It looks super faked as a picture, I will agree(!), I just can't be sure what's going on if we had video, you know? That's all I got. 😁
And ppl say that women are emotional.
"next they're gonna say assault with a deadly weapons is a 'class 2 felony'" - some racist probably idk
she got released almost as fast as she got charged, thats why her non-chalant behaviour.
Well, well, well. If it isn't the consequences of one's actions...
He doesn't need to worry, his El Presidente Trump will pardon him in no time.
She has zero expression. I hope this was a few microseconds into the moment. Otherwise, that's just weird.
thats because she got released soon after she was charged, like months later. white woman privilege is real, the more attractive you are the lesser the sentence you get for a crime.
I was afraid this was about Aaron Paul for a sec. Anyone else see an uncanny resemblance?
Aaron Paul looks like the average southern drug taking boy, that's exactly why they cast him in BB.
I don't think this guy looks as much like Aaron as they both look like southern meth heads.
... Ohhhhhhhh actually yeah that makes sense. Okay yeah! It's an archetype that existed independently and Aaron Paul DOES nail it! Like, just aesthetically--as far as i know he's actually a very good person hence my worry. He perhaps inadvertently made that entire demographic look better XD
"Now you can't even just peacefully drive in your car anymore and do nothing else than driving your own car, which is what they were convicted for - merely driving in their car? Wokeness has gone too far!"
while racism is a bad thing and they should be punished somehow, prison is the least useful or effective punishment and this is just stupid.
Unfortunately it isn't true in the US today that hate has consequences.
That's a good start.
The face of a woman who just realized that sometimes, loyalty should not be above everything. The same face of all the convicted concentration camp workers, who were ordered to kill.
Hahaaaaa have fun finding out you stupid fucks! Glad they got prison time and the judge wasn’t weak. Fuck ‘em and let ‘em die in shit, where they belong.
They'll get out on good behavior no doubt, but even half that sentence is a big chunk of time though.
Shes already out:
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/local/douglasville/kayla-rae-norton-on-parole-two-years-into-prison-sentence/
Im getting a 404 from that site
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/local/douglasville/kayla-rae-norton-on-parole-two-years-into-prison-sentence/85-dc2f8d57-b869-48da-b3fc-c7b41d8a60a6
Thanks. 32 mos. Thats what I'd have expected. At least she's got a record and did multiple years.
That's absurd
Race motivated terroristic threats while armed and menacing, highly likely to re-offend given their motivations. Still seems like a lot but it may be enough to protect that family and others from similar threats.
This high of a sentence is almost impossible to get for a first offense, I don't know the specifics of this law, but it screams maximum sentence, which screams repeated offence, possibly with defiance of a specific rulling.
Those motherfuckers almost certainly had a hobby
the woman already been released shortly after on her own recognizance.
From everything I've been able to find this isn't a repeat offender situation, they were tried and sentenced under Georgia's Street Gang Terrorism and Prevention Act since they were associated with a Confederate Flag "supporter" group called "Respect the Flag." These charges came shortly after the Charleston church massacre which may have influenced the severity of the punishment.
Basically a first offense resulting in maximum punishment due to the timing of the offense.
Oh nooooo..... Maybe they shouldn't associate with such unsavoury individuals. Birds of a feather and all that.
Idk, 15 and 20 years still seems excessive to me for a first offense. They are shitty people and so are the people they associated with, but if you apply this to every other shitty people criminal situation we'd have an even worse US incarceration issue than we do currently.
The American justice system is absurd. This is a rare example of it working equitably at least.
Which part?
Hey racist POS! How ya doing? You do realize that in a criminal trial, there has to be evidence to ensure a conviction, right? The DA tried to put this criminal away, here's the statement she made:
But hey, it's not about facts and details with low IQ types like yourself, is it?
Phew. A man is accused of rape and is suspected to be connected to J.E. have become the POTUS.
But really, the name of the Somalian animal is Abdimahat Billie Mohamed. The case is both very political for obvious reasons and strange: he came out of the court without jail time several times.