Windows 11's adoption is much slower compared to Windows 10, claims Dell
https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-11s-adoption-is-much-slower-compared-to-windows-10-claims-dell/Open linkView original on reddthat.com695
Comments230https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-11s-adoption-is-much-slower-compared-to-windows-10-claims-dell/Open linkView original on reddthat.com
It was possible to skip Vista and go straight from XP to 7. You could even use the same PC.
It was possible to skip 8 and go straight from 7 to 10. You could even use the same PC.
This time around, Microsoft is forcing Windows 11 as the only option, forcing people to throw away their machines, and it is backfiring on them. People are rejecting it and the competition (Linux) has never been as good as it is today.
So much unnecessary e-waste. I never want to hear about how 'green' or 'sustainable' Microsoft is again.
Apparently some are even opting to reinstall Windows 7 rather than the trash fire that is 11. It seems like 10 was never loved, merely tolerated, and as MS continues to enshittify 10 in an attempt to force people onto 11 some are just going back to the previous good version of Windows.
Those people are stupid. Run a version of windows that won't make you part of a botnet and make you my problem or don't run it at all.
If they are taking the time to install windows 7. I'm sure they are at least smart enough to not run random stuff on thier windows machine.
I don't care what they're running. Don't connect an unsupported OS to the Internet or you're eventually going to become my problem.
That's not how it works, especially since everyone doing this is behind a modern router.
Nothing will happen if you have a Windows 98 computer connected to the internet when the home internet router is on default settings. And modern internet browsers implement security in themselves on systems they still support.
Firefox still supports Windows 7 via the ESR channel, and every new install gets redirected to on automatically on Windows 7, 8 and 8.1.
Worry the unsupported systems behind pure internet or providing public internet services, or the users installing the free PDF editor Google advertised as first in search. Those are many more than older Windows enthusiasts.
Are they? If they're irresponsible enough to run an ancient OS it wouldn't shock me if they're also running "retro" network equipment
They are not, come on now.
Retro networking is a different community, and all is still done behind a modern router. They are a subset of the retro computing community, but they don't run such systems as their daily driver.
Most of the legacy OS enthusiasts running on as their daily driver are not interested in matching their networking to be period correct, they just want it to work well and quickly like everybody else. For that you need basic modern equipment, that is often included into ISP plans.
They should just run Linux, but if they have to do Windows then 7 is just as good as 10 now, they're both equally unsupported. Blame Microsoft for fucking up 10 and 11 so bad nobody is willing to run them. If they had at least left 10 alone people would still be using that but they're too greedy for everyone's data and they couldn't leave well enough alone. It's also not like there aren't an absolute ton of Windows 10 and 11 installs that are part of bot nets. Running a new version of Windows makes it slightly harder to get rooted, but doing stupid stuff no matter what you're running is ultimately the problem, not the version of Windows. The age of worms self propagating through service 0-days is largely over, it's almost all phishing and trojans these days. It would be one thing if we were talking Windows 98 or XP, but 7 is fairly solid out of the box.
Sounds like the systems you are using should focus on that problem and not how to integrate ads and AI into everything. While trying to extract every molecule of value for shareholders.
I reinstalled Windows 7 on my laptop and dual-boot Linux and Windows 11 on my desktop.
I love it, but is anyone supporting the bug fixes for security?
Anyone who asks me about this is getting the “At least try Linux for free first before buying a new computer.
Another example I have is that my mother-in-law is retired. You think she needs a new computer? Nope! She’s getting Linux before a new computer. The only other option for her would be an iPad since she’s just browsing the web anyway.
You could install windows 10 on something designed for windows XP, provided it has enough RAM
The reason w11 needs a new PC is pure marketing, it doesn't actually need some specific feature that is present on 8th gen Intel CPUs but not on 7th gen Intel CPUs
They need it to run ai and bloat whithout it grinding to a halt.
They need you to have tpm 2.0 in order to push passkeys which are stored on tpm 2.0
Very good point. Especially with how broken pricing has been on home computers for years, throwing away your machine for something impossibly expensive is a tough sell to say the least. Especially in this economy. It‘s more feasible to switch to Linux.
they are forcing it earlier to stave off thier AI bubble bursting
Gee, I can't imagine why that could be.
Oh, I can think of a few reasons.
You know it's bad when even I switch to linux. I don't understand linux. I literally back up my entire hard drive everytime I attempt to do ANYTHING. Because I WILL screw up my whole system to the point it won't boot. I've done it many times over the coarse of the past year.
Then I gotta spend a whole day waiting for things to restore from backup. And then whatever I WAD trying to do, still isn't done.
That has been my experience using linux this past year.
But Windows 11? No.
Idk wtf you guys are doing.
It's definitively something along the lines of "knows just enough to be dangerous"
Like, sure, I've also broken my Linux system, but I'm deliberately running distros like arch and doing things that the average user would never do, like, say, messing with the bootloader.
If you just install something like bazzite or mint, and use it like a normal user would, the risk for something breaking should be really low
Yep. I’m fortunate enough to be on the other side of the curve, but “it just breaks” when you first start tinkering. The average computer user who will never open the terminal will never run into this problem
Probably Arch or Fedora
This happened to me when I installed a new GPU.
I think you need Bazzite in your life (or some other immutable distro). But hey, fucking things up and recovering from it is how I learned both Windows and then Linux so there are upsides.
That's how you level up in Linux. You break things, learn what you did wrong and do better next time. Linux won't hold your hand, you can and will shoot yourself in the foot.
You are doing it right by having backups and playing it safe. You'll be ok.
Since switching to Linux I have nuked my system maybe 5 or 6 times?
When I initially installed it I set the EFI partition to ext4, that caused some trouble when I updated my kernel lol. Grub just stopped working a few times and then just recently I accidentally wrote a floppy disc image to the wrong drive and wiped out my /home partition. Luckily
testdiskis a thing.For everything else I can just rely on my BTRFS snapshots. My drive setup is more than janky, but it works. Every time something went really wrong I was able to fix it myself.
"Why don't you like our copilot features?" -Microshit-
Because Windows 11 shouldn't have been made in the first place, I can't find one reason why they couldn't just kept updating 10.
Beside greed, forcing people to use fully integrated AI. Cuz they know damn well that 90% of us will disable that shit like we did One Drive.
I don’t even think it’s greed at this point. As far as I know, no one is making money on AI. Even NVIDIA is cooking the books by investing in AI companies and just making them use the invested money to buy graphics cards. They report those as sales but are they really sales if they gave them the money in the first place?
I think the real reason Microsoft is shoving AI down everyone’s throats is because they went all-in on AI and they’re hoping to keep the bubble going for now and somehow it will work out in the end. It’s literally a fake it until you make it strategy with zero guarantee of making it.
A lot of it I think is just driven by managers with AI FOMO. They really don’t know what AI is supposed to do but they’re hoping users will figure it out.
When you have a solution in search of a problem, and lots of money to push that solution. They assume their customers will invent the use cases and workflows that might make it valuable,
this is the real reason, much like whats google is doing with it on thier devices.
Pretty good for live transcription, are blind or partially blind ppl using it? Translation I guess. Better recognition. Idk how useful the language models specifically are, ai everywhere else is useful. Like in gene sequencing and making mediciine. Ai can like find diffrerent combinations that make the same result, idr why thats good, just that itd take humans many many years to simulate what they can have ai run through.
seems like a very small population, that may or may not benefit from it. no justification other than shove down everyones throat to stave off the bubble.
Funny thing is I still don't know why they needed a new version of Windows for that, I mean 10 was already bloat they could have just shoved AI into it, as in the TPM 2.0 they could have just made a new 25H(whatever the fuck) version where you'd need to enable that on the motherboard.
I'm guessing to capture the consumers that just upgrade without thinking. Like they'll 100% put this shit in next years iphone and people won't even blink.
It's because Apple moved on from X. They skipped 9 just because they didn't want to be behind Apple.
It sounds like when Microsoft named their second console "360" because they wouldn't want to be behind Sony. But somehow I'm not buying that
Wasn't the reason for skipping 9 to not break programs assuming “Windows 9” meant 95 / 98?
One good reason: so all of the fucking half ass obnoxious shit that have put into 11 didn't taint 10.
10 was obnoxious enough. 11 dialed it up to 11.
I n ever understood why they couldn't make TPM 2.0 work on W10
Win10 already supports TPM 2.0, it just becomes mandatory in 11.
And no, TPM doesn't spy on you.
I would imagine a big reason being that windows 11 doesnt work on a ton of older systems which meant nobody upgraded to it and instead lived out the life of the hardware until they actually needed to buy something new. The crazy part to me is older systems wasnt even that long ago. I remember when 11 came out and saw a bunch of systems only 2 years old that weren't compatible. I said screw it and just forced it on them and honestly I have had no issues on about 3 different systems so whatever I guess.
That makes sense. Upgrading your PC/laptop when RAM and SSD prices are skyrocketing is ridiculous.
I've used the regkey hack years ago, but recent ones seemed more difficult to bypass. I ended up using a USB stick as well and formatted it with Rufus which has all the options built in to bypass it all. It worked 100% of the time the 3 times I used it. Before doing that 2 systems just wouldnt complete and always ended up giving an error at some point. One of my older systems at work is a Dell Precision which came with a Xeon processor which is normally a server CPU and windows 11 doesnt support server at all so those CPUs aren't compatible. Been running 11 on it 2 years now and is completely stable. The tower is almost 10 years old now, but I dont want to give it up because I know ill never get anything nearly as powerful as a replacement today haha.
It doesn't? I have several servers at work running desktop 11.
Please use a server OS for servers at your hayseed ass company
It runs software that's significantly cheaper--like tens of thousands of dollars a year--for a desktop licence, but it needs a whole bunch of hardware resources. I assure you, it's justified.
I don't think it actually needs the tpm 2.0 or even 1.1 as it's only used for automatic bitlocker decryption
pretty much how I saw it. 10 was a push towards accepting all hardware configurations. 11 put restrictions in the name of security. so even if a user WANTED to upgrade, there's technically a barrier that Microsoft would block them (albeit that check can be bypassed).
I want to qualify this comment with the fact that I am not a super gamer. Most my games are older. The newest and most demanding game I play is Cyberpunk 2077. Most my other games are multiple years older and less demanding.
I finally switched full time to a Linux desktop OS. I have used Linux more or less daily for decades, the first distro I ever installed was Slackware what feels forever ago. But until Valve put the work into running games on linux for their Steam deck I felt I was trapped needing to have Windows to play games. I have even spent the last decade forcing myself to rely more and more on cross platform available FOSS dreaming of some day making a permanent switch. Honestly it was so easy for me to switch at this point, most games pretty much just ran. My biggest problem took a bit to grok and it was just because some games do not like running in proton from an NTFS partition. I have NVME and SATA SSDs separate from my boot drive that I used to install games on and it was trivial to reformat the NVME drive to a more Linux friendly filesystem and I have not had an issue since. Eventually I'll do the SATA drive but I'm lazy and those games are working fine so far. You will absolutely have problems with some games, especially some that have overbearing anti-cheat systems, but man this has been so easy I couldn't really have imagined. The only non-gaming problem was a document scanner we own that is not supported by SANE. I could not find a solution to run it on Linux so I just spun up a Tiny 11 copy of Windows in a VM and passed it through. We only use it a couple times a year so this is an acceptable compromise to me. The VM doesn't have Internet access, it just sees a local drive as a network share. All it can do is scan something and save it to the shared drive so I can access it in Linux.
I chose Linux Mint because I am well versed with Debian and Ubuntu. But I suggest anyone new to Linux give Bazzite a shot. It's designed to be a lot harder for you to break. It's also more optimized for gaming if that's your focus. For me gaming is a requirement but I've never felt the need for top tier performance.
The path from 3.1 to 11 has been such a sour one and the last thing I am willing to put up with is being the product in the eyes of my desktop OS. My computer is mine and it will do what I want it to do or it will do nothing at all.
Now that you're on Linux pop Docker on there and install Ollama/WebUI on there so you can run your own grok at home and not have to support yet another horrible company
Try again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grok
Fucking apatheid emerald mine inheritor ruining perfectly good words from the nerd culture...
You do realize he's using the original definition of grok, right?
Never heard the original definition lol, I wondered why the AI had such a weird name
Blows my mind seeing people look on windows 10 as some kind of last bastion, apparently not realizing that was Windows 7 at best.
10 is the one where they fucked up the UX beyond repair, made everything slow and added insane amounts of spying. If you willingly switched to 10 then don't pretend like 11 is a bridge too far now.
I still can't grasp that Microsoft, a $3.6 trillion company, developed a new settings interface but failed to migrate all settings to it, forcing users to use both. Even I know that's day one UX shite and I'm quite stupid.
What's hilarious is that this started with Win10 so its been an issue for over a decade now and two major revisions at least (possibly started on Win8).
It did start on win8
In their defense, we all try hard to forget that iteration.
I didn't willingly switch to 10, though, that was my only choice
I'd actually say it was 8.1, but the problem with 8.1 is that it died before people could discover how good it is combined with classical start menu. It was basically a fleshed out, faster, more stable Windows 7 with updated tech like newer directx and cached boot (aka. Fastboot). Almost non-existing market share, but I liked it far better than 7, 10 and 11 (only gave it 1 week). I installed a tweaked 8.1 version on all my friends/family's PCs and never heard a single complaint, shit was awesome.
It took me ages today to work out how to map a drive letter because they've changed where the menu button is. You used to be able to do it from the taskbar at the top, but now it's hidden in a right click menu in a different part of the file browser to where it used to be. I don't understand the point of changes like that, by all means add more options but keep the old ones around for consistency.
Managing printers in 11 is the worst. The sad part is that the old-style devices and printers menu is still in the OS, you just have to dig for it a bit, and it works 1000x better.
For the last 13 years this has been the most infuriating part of the incomplete control panel migration. I find myself struggling to use the new settings, and having to then resort to digging for the old ones that actually have the option I need.
Win 11 finally pushed me over the edge with ads and spying. But I still have to deal with Windows at work.
net use still works
People said they will never upgrade from 7 to 10, and now they are saying they will never upgrade from 10 to 11
^ This, I had to be dragged kicking and screaming from 7 to 10, and now looking forward to another 3 years of Win10 security updates, while fervently praying that Adobe and my online games add Linux support during that time >_>
Will it make you even more frustrated to learn Steam has a Linux-native build of Substance Painter, but Adobe still won't support it themselves?
It did :P
Just ditch those games.not worth it
Ah yes the classic purist arguement.
If the applications I want to use don't support Linux then apparently that's their problem. I wish I didn't have to live in the real world, but unfortunately I can't pay my mortgage in moral righteousness. If I can't use the programs I need to use my job, because I've decided to switch to an operating system that they don't support, I'm the one that's going to suffer.
So no you can't just ditch applications that don't have Linux support.
In the real world you have to dual boot and that's a pain in the arse because it means Microsoft are still going to be getting some money from me.
It's a catch 22. If you need applications to make money sure. But games. Come on.
I get a PC from my job, it has windows and that's their choice.
The fuck sort of dipshit argument is this for video games...?
He was saying ditch video games man... VIDEO GAMES.
Yeah, some people get really defensive when you suggest they can get all the things they are asking for, and all they have to do is stop giving money to user-hostile developers. And saying kernel-level anti-cheat is hostile to the user is a massive understatement. Why would you defend Saudi Arabia having kernel-level access to your computer just to play a game? (It's crazy that that statement isn't even a joke in the context of EA.)
I understand if someone decides not to take the suggestion, but it is still a reasonable suggestion to make.
I can't switch to purely Linux because I need windows in order to be able to do my job. The fact I also play games on the computer is irrelevant.
I don't understand what you're not understanding.
Maybe not worth it for you, but I'm enjoying them too much to ditch them 🤷
The difference is that Windows 11 is locked behind behind hardware requirements. A lot of people simply can't upgrade.
The stats show people are committing this time. English speakers are jumping ship at historically unprecedented rates. Steam stats
Was it? I gave up on 8 because of the UI, downgraded back to 7 and that was my last Windows machine. Was 10 worse?
8 was such a disaster that people don't really consider it a real version of windows. 10 was actually better than 8 but that's not saying much
I was on Windows 7 until April of 2021, when I was taking a certification exam remotely, and didn't find out that the software they used for it didn't work on 7 until after I had paid the registration fee. Windows 10 was useable enough, but I never thought it was preferable over 7. Anyway, I'm on Bazzite now.
This article is trash, it mentions existing windows 10 features in windows 11 like it's a groundbreaking new technology.
Virtual desktops and clipboard manager? Cmon man we've been having that for years now
since abaout the late 90's to early 00's. KDE 1 released with virtual desktops, and from what I can tell, Klipper either released with it, or a few years later
fvwm, 1993. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FVWM
Obviously. There is no particular reason to switch from old 7th or older gen intel CPUs since with 16GB (or even with 8) of RAM one can browse internet and use OFFICE 365 with no issues. And what most of people do with their computers at work?
Unless PC is used to render 3D/Video/DAW Audio/heavy VMs - there is no fucking need to buy new PC just to upgrade to win11. MS shot themselves in a foot with this one.
Ah, it may be the decreased quality and increased openly aggressive data collection
No, it's the non-users who are wrong!
It's a mystery
Ooo I love a mystery
It's almost like "you have to buy a new laptop to install it and help train our AI on your private documents" is somehow not convincing enough. Maybe if they also removed local accounts and forced you to have an online MS account? Nah scratch that, it would be stupid
At some point, I need to get around to installing Mint on my desktop. Maybe this weekend, but probably not.
It was extremely easy when I did it. Had everything running in 20 min. The real drag was me wanting to use a more efficient file system, so I spent a day converting my drives to ext4.
Hey I just did it! I completed my migration today. The only reason I keep a desktop around at all is for gaming and I've been locked into Windows for years because of it, but no more. Steam is a given, but I'm running games off Epic and Gog through Heroic and standalone games using Lutris (ESO and Elite Dangerous so far). Not a single problem with any of them.
Mint is great, the only complaints I have are minor and I can easily deal with them. Like when you launch things, you don't always get a cursor animation to tell you you successfully set something in motion and you just have to wait for the window to pop up. That kind of thing.
Zorin and Cachy are great choices too, but Mint is awesome as well. Anything but Windows 11 lol
The main problem for most people when installing Linux is partitioning. Normies usually only use Windows that has been pre-installed, and never install Windows from scratch.
I think you should try Linux on a VM first to get used to it.
The automatic options on Mint (and probably Ubuntu) make everything extremely easy. Do you want to keep Windows, or get rid of it? How much space do you want to give to Mint and Windows? Okay, done.
I've got a Windows 11 laptop as well, so it's not a big issue if I brick the machine.
I'm just gonna jump in head first. When I get around to it.
It's pretty straight forward if you don't do anything else, get a fresh new drive just for it. I've been using Mint for a few weeks now and honestly other than some glitch i keep experience here and there(steam store page is noticeably slower and laggier for some reason, and sound glitch that require restart to get rid of) and some initial setup fiddling to suit me, i really doesn't notice any different than what i've been doing in win10.
Ohh, it works. Thanks
Yeah, my pc has been sitting around for over two months. I think I’m gonna go with Cachy on my machine, just need to find some time 😫
I use windows 10 at home while I use windows 11 at work. The only thing I like about windows 11 is tabs in the file explorer. Besides that I've had to deal with Windows Explorer crashing on a daily basis, task bar freezing completely multiple times a week, certain software straight up not working that I need to get work done, programs crashing that work perfectly fine on 10, internet connectivity issues (usually DNS for some fucking reason), periodically hearing the disconnect sound for a device even when everything is still working, awful drop down menus, needing to change the registry just to get basic features that 10 has, and the list goes on and on. At home everything just works. I've been testing Linux and have been getting better stability than Windows 11 and I feel like every week there's a new problem.
I have to use Windows 11 for work. Maybe this is because of CrowdStrike or something, I don't know, but I often encounter a problem where the main section of explorer, where you can actually click files and stuff, just breaks. That entire region becomes unclickable and unusable, even though the rest of the Explorer window (like the icons on the top part) all still work. So I just have to close the window and then reopen Explorer, re-navigate back to where I was, and proceed from where I left off.
Never, in the decades I've been using computers, have I ever encountered something as stupid as this with this amount of regularity. Windows 11 is a uniquely bad OS compared to every competitor option, including prior versions of Windows.
I run into that same issue from time to time. Another one I run into is when I click on items on the task bar it doesn't bring it up as the active window even when everything else is working. I have to ALT+tab to bring up any Window or minimize every window just to find the one I want and it is absolutely infuriating.
I haven't used windows for over 9 years now, and it still blows my mind that I read about these constant bugs just like when I used it, only back then there was a bug every now and then and they usually got taken care of within a week, but now it's like 1 bug gets squashed, but only after 5 more are already in place. Not trying to shit in anyone here, because if you need Windows, you need it, end of story. But I can't recommend that everyone tried Linux for at least a month enough. Give it a shot, install it in dual boot, spend some time in it, if it doesn't work for you, that's that, but at least you tried it.
YES! Same!!!!
For almost 20 years, I've never lost hours of work due to the OS. The Crowdstrike incident was one of three times I was interrupted by the OS in the last 2,3 years. All of the interruptions are from Windows 11, not 10. This week for, for some reason, Windows is slower to respond than usual, when going to different tasks. I'm one formatting away from getting rid of the Windows 11 in my laptop. I was thinking of dual booting Mint there but it's looking more and more I don't need Windows. Bazzite has been fantastic.
I've been a full time Linux user at home for over six years. It's why my username is what it is :)
I can't say it's flawless. Sometimes you get what you pay for. But in most every significant way it is the better choice.
https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-finally-admits-almost-all-major-windows-11-core-features-are-broken/
http://qttabbar.wikidot.com/
My 78 year old mother bought a new laptop, windows 11.
Immediately I had to remote in because of some S mode BS which just put you in the MS only application environment.
3 months later and somehow she fubarred her login and can't use her new laptop. There's probably an easy fix, but since she hates windows 11 and wants to go back to 10, I suggested Linux.
So it will be a Merry Christmas for my mom when I visit and install IDK? Some version that's super simple. Anything is better than what she currently has
Can't go wrong with good old Linux Mint
Try Zorin OS, its Ubuntu based they have a windows 11 theme.
Do they still offer a Win10 theme? When I first tried it, they still had a Win7 theme.
I think so, if not there are 3rd party themes.
I think KDE Neon would be nice for a new user. I like Pop OS and it's really cute and sleek but the shortcuts are needlessly different from windows a bunch of times, if she's somehow used to alt+tab to change windows and not just window groups she's gonna have a hard time learning another way to do it.
Because 8 was garbage and people got rid of it as soon as possible. 10 was actually good, and 11 was barely a change functionally until they started messing with the ads push, and now they're shoving LLM bullshit in to justify their exorbitant expenditures on the half functional tech.
Yep. I Kept 7 for as long as possible but had to upgrade so 10 was next. I wouldn’t move to 11 if support continued for 10.
Which is exactly the reason they're ending support.
If you don't have a reason to stay, Linux is definitely worth a shot. I moved from 10 to Bazzite in my rig earlier in the year, and it's been pretty solid.
I have bazzite Linux as dual boot. Few usecases stop me from moving fully over. Nvidia drivers and VR support. And Remote Desktop doesn’t work the way I want it to.
Also for some reason my ryzen system stopped seeing my linux sata drive in bios so can’t boot anymore.
Interesting. I ditched team green years ago and have been running rock solid since. My Nvidia GPU was always the reason I went back to windows. Sorry to hear your ryzen rig stopped, have you looked for a bios update? Might be something simple like that (assuming your disk didn't shit the bed).
Can't say I've had any rdp issues on Bazzite, what's it doing?
I can see the disk in windows. It just doesn’t show up in the bios. I’ve been recommended to do a fully CMOS reset by pulling out battery but don’t really have time. It disappeared after a BIOS update :)
As for RDP. I regularly RDP to my windows machine and it auto changes resolution. And then I can log in on the PC itself and it returns to the monitor resolution. So I keep the same session but view it from multiple places.
I can’t get the same on Linux. Either I get my current session which doesn’t resize (stuck at connected monitor resolution). Or it creates a new resizable session which I don’t want because I want to continue what I was doing.
That is definitely odd behavior. Multiple sessions is a server side setting, so your Linux system shouldn't be able to do that without windows being ok with it. As for the resolution issue, it might be a config issue in your client. Give another client a shot, or see if there's a way to configure the client to use smart sizing. I can't recall which app I use on my system, but I can't say I've ever had an issue with scaling between connected and remote connected sessions.
Did you load the default BIOS settings after that? If not, that might be easier than removing the battery.
And if you did, the default settings could have enabled the CSM, or changed other settings like fast boot that might make the drive not show up.
Tried every reset option. I set to RAID mode and I saw hard disk in bios but boot failed at bazzite load screen.
Have you checked your BIOS if CSM is enabled (gets disabled when enabling secure boot iirc)? If your Linux drive has an old partitioning scheme it needs that to show up during boot I think.
I’ll try it. But I don’t see the drive detected in the BIOS so thought it might be more than that.
Also bazzite should have secure boot.
I’ll let you know!
You probably know this, but for others who might not: MS is now allowing some/many/all (???) people to extend the security updates for Win10 for another year free of charge. You have to go into the Windows update area and click a button to accept. At least in the USA, this seems to be a somewhat newly available option, as it was there the last time someone asked me to look at their laptop to see if I could upgrade it to Win11.
I had already upgraded when I saw this. But it’s only another year, if it was 2-3 years I’d actually take the hit and roll back. I’d actually pay for it! Although next year I might move totally over to Linux. Will see.
Couldn't imagine why lmao
It's a simple reason. Everybody is abandoning dell in droves for lenovo in enterprise environments.
I used to buy dell exclusively for laptops across over a decade at multiple organizations where I determined hardware standards and purchasing. Everyone always wanted a x1 carbon or thinkpad but the prices were too high. This is no longer the case. Now everyone gets a thinkpad or x1 carbon where I work at least, and statistics for market share are heavily on the lenovo side now.
That's how I see it anyway. This has nothing to do with windows 11, it's just another service pack when you're managing everything via GPO/intune/sccm/whatever.
Have you seen any traction with Framework in the corporate space? They are mostly marketed at individuals, but since you specifically mention people wanting higher quality machines, Framework fits the bill.
No way. People like me purchase a steady supply of standardized machines at a fair cost. Bigger companies than I've worked for want a lease agreement. We pay $X for Y units, you come in and swap them in 3, 4, or 5 years, rinse and repeat. We also need robust tech support, both from the manufacturer and wide user base. No way I'd suggest management purchase Frameworks.
Framework is awesome for individuals as you can upgrade! No one in their right mind wants to hassle with upgrading a fleet of hundreds, thousands, or 10's of thousands of machine. You talking about pets when business requires cattle.
https://www.hava.io/blog/cattle-vs-pets-devops-explained
Great question! And BTW, thousands upon thousands of those "old" cattle are available on eBay from sellers who make a living moving off-lease machines. I'd never buy new. LOL, I bought servers that way from savemyserver! Boss came by while I was setting up a new server. "Is that new?!" "Nope."
I know this probably won't be received well, but I look at framework and I see the least usable option. On some level I understand the idea and think it is somewhat desirable. However, I just think the modular nature comes with substantial drawbacks compared to modern competitors.
For home use i'm mostly a gamer. They don't really have powerful gaming options and I can just build my own desktop in the case I want with whatever hardware I want.
For not-gaming home use, I want something lightweight that just works. I just get something from work usually. It's common to have a glut of laptops when you acquire someone or to just order something as a tester or to demonstrate an option- which happens to be the one system I really want to use.
Framework is expensive for what they provide. The upgrades are rarely worth the price to me. If I really had to buy something, I could buy something I really want with the specs and features I really want instead of having a ton of hot swappable ports that I never touch because I just want usb-c anyway. When it's time for me to upgrade I end up giving my old to one of my friends or family members, because there's always a need there- two such machines i'm handing out over thanksgiving.
Framework Corp is massively frustrating because their secret sauce tech makes absolutely no sense for individuals (seriously, run the actual numbers. It is almost always cheaper to just buy two laptops AND you have less ewaste because there is no box of spare parts) but is PERFECT for enterprise/fleet deployments.
But Framework Corp has no interest in fulfilling that role. To my knowledge, there are no bulk ordering programs and their software/OEM support is fairly mediocre.
As far as enterprise laptops go? There is a full industry around macs for obvious reasons. On the PC side? The only vendors I really "trust" are Dell and Lenovo with MAYBE HP if the middleman org is confident. And... I LOVE a Thinkpad for my personal use (the nub is love. the nub is life) but there are very serious supply chain concerns for professional purposes.
But if Framework could cut the bullshit and either branch out or work with a middleman? Rapid repairs for keyboards and drives as well as tricking people into using USB C dongles would go a long way for many (most?) midsize companies.
I've never, ever met someone outside of a tech role that even knows they exist.
If someone isn't happy with a lenovo, it's because they want that coveted apple logo on the lid.
The primary concerns in the enterprise environment are around standardization. I only want a couple of models to manage per year so that the support guys don't have to worry too much about some willy wonka bullshit that doesn't work because that one system is an oddball. The nice thing too about lenovo (or dell) has traditionally been support services. If you know the words to say you can get them to ship out anything with a tech to replace anything after a single call and not running all the silly diagnostics. I know dell has been on the decline for support services and I honestly don't handle any of the warranty repairs myself, but my impression is that it still works.
Has Lenovo stepped their game up recently? Work used to be all Lenovo, and a few years back they switched over to Dell because the Lenovos just weren't reliable. Which is a shame because I still think the Lenovos are better designed with better keyboards, screens, port layout, etc. but it's all moot if the thing craps out after a couple of years.
A LOT of people complained when Thinkpad transferred from IBM to Lenovo. Like almost all things, it was progress conflated with racism.
The big "meaningful" complaint is that Lenovo used more plastics than aluminum. On the one hand, I get it: my T41 was a god damned beast that felt like it could stop a bullet (an important consideration in the US). It also apparently weighted 2.22 kg and I 100% noticed that on trips and even walking around town/campus.
And Lenovo bought the brand around the time that a LOT of people were noticing the weight of their laptops and there was a huge push for "ultrabook" form factors and the realization that it makes more sense to protect your device with a sleeve and a padded compartment rather than "military grade" construction. And... Asian factories were (and still are) much more agile and able to pivot. Whereas US factories still tend to take years (or decades...) to catch up to the rest of the world.
So we got the same xenophobic nonsense we've had in every other industry. These thin and light laptops with plastic shells ARE CHEAP PIECES OF SHIT THAT NOBODY CAN EVER REPAIR AND ARE ALL A SCAM SO BUY AMERICAN!!!! Even though the shell has almost nothing to do with it and those still had screw based constructions. The real problem was the rapid shift towards soldering/gluing hardware in place. Some of that was to support ultrabook designs and some are just pure bullshit to prevent upgrades.
These days? Aluminum is king again because it "feels premium" but those shells are so ridiculously thin that they are arguably worse than polymer (still feels great though). I blame Apple.
But build quality wise? Lenovo straight up bought IBM's laptop (and consumer PC?) divisions. It was the exact same factories and designers and capabilities.
All that said: Lenovo is also a REALLY Chinese company. For a personal device? I have zero qualms and literally bought a new laptop for the first time in like 9 years and it is a Thinkpad. From a professional standpoint? A competent IT department can vet devices. I... think I worked with a competent IT department once in my life. But, more importantly, if we are trying to do business with a government org or a high value company/target? They are fundamentally concerned about Supply Chain Hardening (and for good reason) and that just reeks of "We, personally, don't care about that". Which generally won't outright kill a deal but it does put you on a back footing.
for some reason my work is the opposite. they were all lenovo (which were great), but we were forced to switch to shitty dells.
Funny enough, job before last I was buying all Dell. Next job, all X1 Carbons and the occasional Mac for the devs.
In some weird way it does feel like things flipped overnight. Maybe it was the pandemic? Definitely went from ~2019 all dell to ~2023 ultramajority lenovo. None of this is scientific though lol
Now everybody is fleeing vmware to nutanix and hyper v. We live in strange times.
Even slower than Windows 10? That's impressive...
I mean if you tell 50% of your client base they have to buy a new PC...
Especially, in the current economic climate.
They should make 64 GB RAM a minimum requirement. That alone is 500€ right there.
with all the AI and bloat hogging up your memory im not surprised if its just there to peddle ADVERTISEMENTS 100% OF THE TIME.
Windows 11 brings change but no significant features. The general population hates change.
Idk what you mean "no significant features". I definitely needed AI integration in notepad.exe.
Also I definitely needed a broken start menu that doesn't show any result when doing a search
What do you mean? Now I get the feature of not being to click on the clock on my second monitor to open the calendar! I had been waiting for that feature for ages.
Explorer tabs is a feature. One which should have been an update instead of an “upgrade”. That’s about it though.
10 had at least SOME good in it, at first i didnt want to move on from 7 but when i finally did it was okay. Everything i have heard about 11 is awful, and i wasnt very pleased with it myself either when i tried it at work, though i was able to mostly ignore it since it was just my work pc.
And now after switching to mint, idea of using 11 is preposterous.
I learned to tolerate 10 for my limited uses. Like you, my Windows PC jumped from 7 to 10. When 11 rolled around, the centered start menu was the first thing I noticed and it was an instant wtf moment.
Had to "upgrade" my work laptop to 11 for security support. Nothing about it is better. Almost everything is slower, and many common operations take more steps to complete on 11 vs 10.
Absolute fuckin' garbage.
Microsoft needs to be sued to allow for a Linux desktop Excel. Once that happens they would lose like half their market share to Linux.
LibreOffice is good. While people don’t like learning new things, I found it does everything I could want.
I actually switched years ago because I didn’t want to pay for MS Office.
Sure its fine at home. But try getting an entire office to learn new spreadsheet software. They can barely handle when a new version of Excel is released.
i just dont understand hiring requirements. They make posts that require you to be able to do anything and everything, expect everyone still to apply and hire people that barely are able to do the job and can't handle learning anything new, likely not even due to some inherent weakness in the head but just attitude. And I bet every one of them praises their skills on learning new stuff on the interview. And then they show the door to anyone who dares not to be really good at lying through their teeth at the interview.
I know what you're talking about. As someone who had to hire a lot of people it was infuriating that we only got the candidates HR approved.
I so wish that we could hire 5 people for 2 weeks and then retain 1 or 2 of them. You don't learn anything about candidates until you give them your first assignment. I would have jumped at that as an applicant, but maybe just because I was unemployed for a while during the 08 super recession.
Same here. There is a learning curve because, while it does all the same things, sometimes it happens in a slightly different way and the UX is different.
I couldn't be happier, ditching Windows for Linux.
To be clear, I’m not ‘not adopting’ - I’m actively boycotting that shit. The whole TOM thing was annoying enough, but everything else surrounding it has proven to me that Microsoft cannot be trusted with that level of access to MY hardware.
So yeah, I’m going to put Linux on my PC and ultimately back to Mac full time, I imagine.
I really need to upgrade my setup, but I don't really feel like selling one of my kidneys so I can afford 8 gigabytes of RAM (it's not a good kidney so I'm being realistic).
Anyway my current system has windows 11 on it anyway so I might as well just keep using that but as soon as I have the option to leave I'm going to.
I need to keep windows 11 around for work but as soon as I can build a system that can hold to two whole operating systems at a time I'm going to go over to dual booting. Unless the steam machine turns out to be cheaper than anyone's realistically expecting, in which case I might just go that route. The current RAM prices mean that's probably unlikely.
Heh, you know it’s bad when the OEMs are throwing shade.
Considering all of the comments saying that a big part of this is people not wanting to buy new computers and choosing linux because it will run on their old machine, I'd like to add insult to injury and say I built a new PC before Oct and windows was never even a consideration.
And despite it being my first Linux install I planned to play games on, everything went smoothly and I'd even say the "setting up the PC to my preference instead of the defaults" step was better because there wasn't a "figure out how to disable the shit ms really wants you to run for them" substep, or a "figure out what new shit ms added that I'll want to disable" discovery mode that, with win 10, lasted most of the time I was using it and included "figure out if a recent update reset settings to annoying defaults".
I bet this is why people are so vocal about switching to linux whenever there's another complaint about ms. It went way better than expected, like I was about to do something that would cause ongoing pain and frustration to get away from something even worse, but there's been nothing at all that has made me miss windows.
Yeah. I built my PC two years back and Linux was the main idea for it. I'd used Linux on and off since 2007, and it's honestly been fine this entire time, with WINE and such only improving over time. I remember how baffled I was back in 2007 when I didn't have to install any drivers myself, everything just worked out of the box, even fucking printers.
This is the time of Windows Vista, where nothing worked.
Yeah, I've got a logitech mouse but didn't want logitech's software on my machine, so I just used the mouse by plugging it in. Which worked, but I had no way of knowing the battery level until the mouse itself started blinking low power.
When I installed fedora, I was confused a bit because it had a system tray icon saying the battery was charging. I was thinking it thought it was a laptop until I realize it had just picked up the battery information from my mouse. A feature I had written off under windows just worked without me even considering it or needing to install software that was partly about using my hardware and partially about advertising more ways to get my money.
For a Logitech mouse on Linux I use Solaar. Pretty much why I go with Logitech mice now. Solaar works well for me
Besides myself being on Linux, I used to mix Linux and Windows since like 2010 but fully transitioned like 3 years ago, I'm still regularly using a laptop from 2016 as a zoom calls and internet browsing laptop. It gets too hot to have in my lap and the battery lasts like 30 minutes. That's a dual core integrated graphics chip from 2016. Anyone with a discrete graphics card easily has a solid workstation PC. If you're not gaming or your not doing something that really benefits from strong hardware, you're good. No need to upgrade. If you're not playing new AAA games at 4k maxed, you may be good. This is just same news as how people are holding onto their cell phones longer than before
micro$oft is getting desperate though
https://kotaku.com/windows-11-pro-upgrades-going-for-pocket-change-for-black-friday-2000647371
Is that site just an ads disguised as articles site now? Like it's not just news about the sale, it's actively trying to sell win 11 (and not doing a great job with its list of "I thought it already did that", "underwhelming feature", "no, I still don't fucking want onedrive; I no longer trust you with my own files on my computer, let alone saving everything on yours".)
Successfully booted up Linux mint today, stayed on windows for uni (thinking I might need one of those Microsoft apps). Missed Linux and now back :)
"Slower" implies you're projecting the same end results. Do they think the missing numbers are just not using a computer at all? In the digital age? By far your largest numbers of actual Win11 migrators are companies whose tech policy is the CYA "update everything in case we get hacked".
The common folk are not going to buy a new computer just to get a slower Windows installation. The people who migrate from Windows 10/7 holdouts are going to be migrating to Linux.
Literally me biding my time on W10 for Autodesk to pull their head out their ass and make AutoCAD for Linux.
That would be decades of legacy. I mean, with people paid to survive rewriting that legacy, should happen - if and when Linux is a mainstream platform. EDIT: ... for companies' workstations.
Honestly, just being less hostile to Linux and not purposefully pushing out updates that break it under wine/proton would be great...
Linux for desktop. MacBook Air for my laptop, only because of Microsoft Office. Bought a cheap Office for Mac 2021 licence. Mac is also much better than Windows 11 too: responsive, Fast wake/sleep, no 20 minute reboots with mystery updates, no registry, no Powershell. If you can avoid Office documents and run an AMD GPU, anyone should be golden on Linux. NVidia is fine if you are comfortable with command line. Not really sure what Windows has going for it except inertia, but if your coasting, you are going downhill...
Windows has the enterprise. What Fortune 500 company uses Linux on the desktop?
It's a burning platform, and the future isn't bright. IT and security would love to get rid of Windows desktops, they are nightmare to manage and secure. Problem is legacy.
But who still uses native Windows Apps other than Office? Legacy apps are out there, but also being migrated to low code browser apps. Even Office is an web app and Microsoft has been converting their 'native' apps into browser containers. Point is that Almost everything runs on a web browser and that is what kids have been using in schools for nearly 10 years. To date, ChromeOS is widely used in some roles (contact center, some back office). Developers, graphics, video, marketing, executives, along with most sales often use Mac, and nearly every enterprise uses both Android and IPhone /iPad OS.
.
I have seen a move away from office products into cloud things like google for years. Not a huge fan of the "cloud" but here we are.
Even all the design agencies use Macs, no one in the business world uses Linux. Except for servers obviously.
Is Linux good? I'm thinking of changing over one of my old alienwear laptops to Linux cause it's just gotten so slow on Windows
Well yes it can be. If you have a Nvidia GPU it wouldn't be the best because they sometimes have driver issues (that's Nvidia with closed shitty drivers for linux). I will probably run fine anyways. I would recommend Bazzite if you don't want to tinker with linux and just use it. CachyOS if you want a snappy experience. Gaming wise they don't have any difference and with Bazzite you can't fuck anything up. Edit: If you have an AMD GPU you should just change to linux no question.
Thanks for that, yeah unfortunately it is nvidia but i might give those two a run anyway at the end of the day i can always re install windows if need be.
Yea I wouldn't be too concerned with trying just because you have an Nvidia GPU, I've been running it for years and haven't had any show stoppers. Now is probably the best time to give it a go.
I really don't see what more Windows has to offer than Linux other some shitty software that cannot be run on Linux (Looks at newer Office and Adobe). In that case I can just boot up a VM with black-flag Windows Pro on it.
Stability, updates management, built-in features (like window tiling), etc.
Source: using Linux exclusively for almost a year now.
Wait... Either I have bad grammar or you misinterpreted lol. I meant "Linux has more to offer than Windows"
No. I said that there's a bunch of things (e.g. stability, updates management, features (like window tiling), etc.) that Windows has and Linux does not.
There's A LOT Linux does great. There's also a lot Windows does great that Linux massively fails at.
Even some silly things like multi-screen support or saving windows positions between reboots... Lots of small things.
Linux has all of this out of the box (don’t know about windows positions after reboot, I have never tried that even on Windows). What distro and DE are you using? I am using Arch with KDE Plasma and it has been pretty much flawless and stable for me.
Using Bazzite with KDE Desktop and can confirm that it keeps multi-window positions after reboot.
I remember that it used to work on my Garuda (Arch-based), but then one day it just went away and never came back. Considering issues like this it seems like it might be something cobbled-together by various distros rather than a default functionality of Wayland or KDE.
Especially when you're on Arch with KDE, you don't have:
I know because I'm on Arch with KDE.
By "good update management" I mean what MS does - all updates are pushed once a month, on Patch Tuesday (second Tuesday of the month). You can put it in your calendar and plan for a necessary reboot.
I know Arch is a rolling release so it doesn't have that on purpose, but it's not much better with Ubuntu - I was getting updates every couple of days, once a week at best.
Window tiling doesn't exist "out of the box", you need third party software (which, apparently still doesn't give you what Windows has out of the box) or a switch from KDE to COSMIC, which still doesn't give you the freedom of choice that Windows has (it's either "everything is tiled" or "nothing is tiled").
Saving window positions (on Wayland) is the most confusing one, because it seems like the one that'd be the easiest to implement, but KDE devs just flat out refuse to do it. I hear that it works on X11.
Multi-monitor support is piss poor. If I spread my windows across multiple monitors and then turn one monitor off, those windows are no longer accessible. SDDM displays the same interface on each monitor, and each is a separate instance of SDDM - meaning, you can type in your password on monitor 2, and if you press "OK" on monitor 1, it will fail, because the password field is empty. It's just silly design. On Windows, if you disconnect an extra screen, all the content gets dropped on the main screen. Since Windows 11, if you then re-connect the screen, all windows will pop back into their places before the disconnect happened.
You might have configured something that broke it because there ain't no way what you are saying is not supported on Linux.
You don't have to update if you don't want to and you can schedule your updates as well with a bash script (although I prefer to do it manually once a week). I have a Windows VM used for MS office and Adobe that hasn't been updated for months.
It is out of the box. Meta + Arrow Keys and/OR Meta + PgUp. I use it all the time lol since KDE Plasma 5 and Gnome whatever version it was 3 years ago.
)
Confirmed works by [email protected] in above comments. Although I never tested or cared for it.
I don't know about desktop towers, for laptop it is always only one instance — my laptop display, monitor is dark before I hit enter. And for the normal KDE lockscreen, it does give it on both the screens but I can enter my password in any one of them and logon.
same happens on KDE Plasma.
Ah, OK, nice! I didn't see it as it's not available via mouse, but found all those threads saying it doesn't exist. Good to know!
Doesn't work on Garuda (Arch-based) with KDE.
Or rather: it used to work, but then just stopped.
Interesting! On my laptop I also had two instances of SDDM.
Not where I'm sitting. Tested via cat accidentally turning a monitor off. The browser window just stayed on that screen - the process was there, but the application was not available.
Stability? Update management? Window tiling? What? Linux does have all of these things. In fact Linux is way more stable than Windows, has better update management. Mind you, it does depend on the distro and the amount of stability you want, but I have been running Debian servers for years and I hardly run into problems.
The only thing windows offers over Linux is gaming and a better UI. Even both of those are dwindling away. I hate the new windows 11 UI and most games work on Linux unless you require a rootkit for some anti cheat software.
No.
I install Windows and forget about it. I install Linux and have to do all this, and then it still might do this or this.
Agreed.
I want all the stability.
Not talking about servers.
But even then - at my last job we finally killed off a Windows Server that had an uptime of over 1000 days, just chugging along like a little trooper. At my previous-previous job I was responsible for the WinServer updates, every single one of them was getting monthly updates and reboots, didn't have a single issue in 7 years. It was just shy of 100 servers.
Agreed. I have Garuda Linux installed on my gaming PC and only had minor issues with three titles. It's surprisingly frictionless.
The most frustrating part of running Linux for me is the experience can vary so much for each person, slight hardware differences can cause odd bugs that other people don't have, and solving them can be really time consuming because a fix that works for one distro or DE may not work on another.
I'm really happy that Bazzite seems to be gaining so much popularity as an actual windows replacement, because it makes it a lot easier to find fixes for problems if there's a huge community using the exact same distro.
Good.
The biggest selling points of Windows these days is familiarity, backwards compatibility, and gaming.
And the only one of those not under active threat by someone is the backwards compatibility. Which means there is an active shelf life on the viability of Windows as a big money maker on the consumer desktop/laptop. And once it starts to falter in that market then the enterprise will start to follow.
I thought that thumbnail was sonic the hedgehog
They keep updating my windows 10 computers at work and the one I have at home. None of my Microsoft apps work, I can't install paint, or photos or the Microsoft store. My personal computer freezes as soon as I open windows explorer. This just started after the last update.
I already have a Linux server downstairs and this week converted me windows 10 pc to endeavor OS. It's lightning fast and easy to use if you already know the problems with Linux.
I wonder if a lot of it is because Microsoft will say your computer isn't compatible to upgrade but meanwhile it actually CAN be upgraded and users are just taking what Microsoft tells them as truth and not investigating further.
I myself have upgraded a couple of family members machines to Win 11 even though "technically" Microsoft claims they can't be. just went ahead with it anyways. I could have just thrown Linux on them like Mint or something but some people are just comfortable within windows.
"Used to" maybe, but "comfortable" is a stretch
Maybe it‘s not slower, but smaller? I don‘t use Windows on my computer anymore.
My company is still on windows 10 cause we're broke af. We're so screwed
Switch to Linux Mint, KDE, or Pop OS Cosmic
Then once comfortable get your company to switch to it
Nah, the transition to Loonix will bring up so many issues. Our IT dept is already stretched really thin as it is
For temp issues while saving on a lot of future headaches, and financials dealing with Windows more. But I getcha
I'm guessing if they're too broke to switch their tech stack to Windows 11, a mostly similar OS to 10, the costs to switch to an entirely new paradigm is completely out of the question.
The challenge is those 20 years old Windows 3.1 software apps they still use
We've been switching over to Windows 11 and it's broken so many of our old applications.
We have stuff that's like 40 years old and it just won't tolerate Windows 11 so all those programs have to be run in a virtual environment. They were fine with Windows 10 so I've no idea what about Windows 11 they don't like. I wouldn't mind so much if there was an obvious advantage to Windows 11 but therr literally isn't, there's not a single feature in Windows 11 that would help us do business better.
But I think Windows 11 is on track to be the crap version, so Windows 12 will hopefully be better although given the current direction Microsoft moving that might not be the case, and they may have finally broken the crap then good cycle.
Windows 12 will be a realtime AI fever dream, generated as the user uses it.
This is true. Rumours I've heard is that all your data will just be in one big blob, and every application is just an AI agent sorting and displaying the info for you.
So you could open a word document in Excel and it would format the info as a table, or you can open a PowerPoint in Visio and it would make it into a workflow chart. Same data, just presented differently by AI "wrappers".
Remember when Microsoft said windows 10 was going to be the last major windows version and they were just going to support it forever with rolling updates, and then later said they never said that.
Pepperidge farm remembers.
Windows 12? 🤣
good
Is it even being "adopted"?
ITT: People who don't realize there is a massive amount of software developed for smb and enterprise businesses that only run on Windows which is the primary driver of Windows sales. Quickbooks, various ERP implementations, any kind of legal case management software, Sage, etc
Duh. I mean really how can they can't sell it for good reason.
That is because it is buggy, I use windows 11 both at home and work. It is very unstable compared to Windows 10.
Oh, you think its the bugs that are the main culprit? I have a CoPilot to sell you