The GOP expected Democrats to relent on the shutdown by now. That isn't happening.
Democrats have only hardened their position as the government shutdown enters its 23rd day, leaving Republican majorities in Congress with few answers — and many criticisms.
For the 12th time, Senate Democrats blocked the Republican Party's government funding legislation this week without a single senator switching his or her vote.
Just three Democratic caucus members voted for the bill: John Fetterman, D-Pa.; Catherine Cortez Masto, D-Nev.; and Angus King, I-Maine. That means Republicans are still five votes short of the 60-vote threshold to ensure passage of the bill, just as they have been since before the government shut down 23 days ago.
Democratic voters had pressured their party to take a more confrontational posture toward Trump in the shutdown battle. The new stance may be paying off with the party’s base.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/republicans-expected-democrats-cave-shutdown-not-happening-rcna239457Open linkView original on lemmy.world
If we don't hold the line now, everything gets much worse.
There is no negotiating to be had on the issue. Remove the cuts to healthcare or fuck off.
The last shutdown ended after 35 days when LaGuardia was shutdown due to protests ftom airport workers who weren't getting payed.
My prediction is a similar thing will happen.
They are about to miss a full paycheck this weekend, and it's the end of the month, bills are about due. Things are about to start hurting.
If only we had an extra 40 billion...
Man. It would royally suck if some government flights stayed grounded because air traffic control refused to work. 😐
Maybe they can hold out until Thanksgiving
That's a messaging shortcoming, not the public's fault. If I have short attention span it is mostly because shit is stacking faster than I can cope.
When I rewrite the 10 commandments, one is going to be "Thou shalt not be a mark."
That was part of the plan, too. I think they put it in Project 2025.
Nah. That type of voter is also the type to just blame everything on the party in power.
Every single newspaper acts like only the Democrats have any agency.
Yeah, I'm actually happy with the Dem response here, and I don't really compliment them often.
I'm annoyed that the press, as always, is completely in Republicans' pockets. Notice how the whole article is practically waiting with bated breath for the Democrats to give in and open the government? They bury any talk of the ACA a few paragraphs in. The possibility that the Republicans could reopen the government by agreeing to extend healthcare subsidies is not really contemplated.
I've seen many articles across different papers, and this is a theme. Their narrative is that the Dems have shut down the government. Republicans defunding healthcare is always a foregone conclusion, and the story is always about the competition, never about the substance of the fight.
One reason people treat politics like a team sport is because that's how it's always covered.
It's actually worse. With the pocket recision that has already been used, the administration has literally demonstrated that they will rescind any deal they don't want to pay for. Frankly, the only way to negotiate in good faith would be some legal measure passed and tested by the courts (because the pocket recision used to be illegal until this SCOTUS ruled in favor of it, like just in time for this budget needing to be passed), guaranteeing that the administration will fund what Congress has appropriated funds for.
Fetterman is a disgrace.
He's just appeasing the Nazis. It worked back in WW2
Hear that Nevada and Maine? You should probably deal with your traitors.
Everybody already knew about Fetterman
Maine is working on it, at least.
Listing Maine’s as independent makes it odd to list them as Democratic.
'Democratic caucus'; I assume they usually work with the Democrats despite not being one, a la Bernie Sanders
Democrats in every way but name.
Keep it shutdown and keep the core message that GOP can end this if they cared about health care for normal americans.
Keep up the pressure and rally around the message.
The message from the right is that this is about Democrats demanding woke shit and providing health care for illegals. They're getting their message out there too.
I was just telling my best friend that I think this shutdown is going to go on for six to eight months. Possibly to the point where the pot boils over and the government gets thrown away because it was closed for so long.
At least, one can dream that after months of bitter pain and suffering, we might possibly get people who care about others running a government. But that’s a whole hell of a serving of pain and suffering before we get there.
Fuck it, let’s general strike this place. Medicare for all with the govt reopen and all those critical services back or nothing ever happens again.
Governments are the product of the people. There is no divine or natural laws that triggers "an election". A government is simply created from thin air when a group of people (any group of people) get together and say: fuck the old system, we are putting that in the trash and signing a new social contract.
Of course, there's virtually never unanimity of agreement over this social contract in one geographic area, so that social contract is only as binding as the force used to put it in effect.
Realistically, 6 months+ of government shutdown in the US will likely cause a collapse of the USA as a single unified federal entity, since the federal government effectively rots. At that point, all bets are off. A fracture of the US is very possible.
I assumed they asked because in many countries, it would legally trigger an election.
In parliamentary democracies the budget is automatically a vote of confidence. If the government can't pass it, an election occurs. Nothing shuts down because the system is still operating on the existing budget that was already passed.
Is that written into laws? No. But you know who made the original government? People who decided to make their own shit.
We have more information and better access to new decisions. We can simply decide to start over collectively and start once again. We don’t have to do things because that’s the way they have always been (in our individual lifetime).
These are the vibes I'm getting
I will accept literally any other ideology before fascism. A monarch, a communist dictatorship, a tyranny of the majority, pre-fascist crony capitalism, futarchist prediction markets, primitivist tribes, machine rule, you name it. Go nuts. The bad ideas we haven't tried might not end up with secret police disappearing people.
I get it, I just don't think leveling the building full of asbestos is the best plan of action. If that metaphor makes sense.
Edit: gah I couldn't extend that in a way that wasn't absurd. Nice metaphor bro.
Communist dictatorship is off the table, too. I mean, there is China's communism that probably isn't quiet as bad. Damn, we've seriously lost ground here. Anyways, markets, communism, etc, are all based on trading labor for resources. We're quickly approaching a world where robots are doing much of the labor. Humans who are not rich, selling sex, or some other service not acheivable with robotics are going to be very fucked.
IMHO at least the communists want something good, that sometimes results in fascism and sometimes gets crushed. The fascists just want something bad and often succeed.
No, that's not a thing that happens.
All the Internet surveillance will give any opposition a heads up on organizing.
Generally but not always with violence
I feel like a dramatic dissolution should be a possibility considered, but I don't really expect us to come out of it with a new people-focused government. Likely if the budget never gets passed Trump decides he doesn't need Congress and just starts spending money as he wishes. He'll even start with funding something the people want, then once it's established that he can just spend money and no one will stop him, he'll move on to the instruments of oppression. When the military is directly being paid by the president, we'll see how much of their oath is really to the Constitution.
Who would throw it away? Most likely the states, possibly the military, and least likely but possible, a popular movement of the people.
In the event of the collapse of the federal government the states still have their individual governments. It'd be painful everywhere and especially painful in most red states but we wouldn't necessarily have a total political collapse.
I do agree that it's extremely unlikely to happen.
You would almost certainly see some of the states refederalizing very quickly if that happened.
I guess you missed the whole last paragraph I mentioned where we can do a general strike and start helping ourselves. But sure, whatever you say bub.
But your entire last paragraph, on the practicality and realism spectrum, ranks just a bit lower than "worthless, idle wishful thinking".
It's no more or less serious than if you'd said we should all just join together in song and force aliens to show up to fix all our problems.
Good. Hold the fucking line.
I just feel bad though now that others have to stand in a food line. But I agree.
These ones will be figuring out how to keep eating if this keeps up, given dependence on SNAP.
Hold the fucking line.
I’m gonna have to vote for Fetterman in three years, aren’t I.
That depends on whether someone in PA can assemble the resources needed to primary him.
I honestly dont expect him to run for reelection. The guy seems to absolutely hate being a senator after having a stroke. He definitely despises being in the public eye or the center of attention to some degree. He also seems to not really have much awareness of things going on around him in general anymore. He really should not be in such a stressful position in his current state of health, and I doubt he wants to be. Pride is probably the sole thing keeping him from stepping down. It definitely isnt his love for being in the role, that is for sure
I think that sums up so many of the Democratic Party's problems.....
He's a shitty town mayor. He got some TV time back then for his 'crazy antics'. You might be right the national spotlight is hopefully too much for him.
But you also don't need to work a real job while you're elected. That could be a bigger draw.
Or if he just decides to call himself a republican like he acts anyway.
Oct 16 - Daily Beast
Lmao at that last sentence..
Yeah, I got Brian Fitzpatrick as my rep, the "#1 Most Bipartisan Member of Congress" for however many years now. Still votes with Trump 51% of the time, and it's only on money things he'll break with Republicans on, very rarely ever is it a moral thing.
Meanwhile Fetterman is polling better with Republicans (around 60% favorable) compared to with the Dems (around 50% favorable).
Want to come up with a compromise on farm aid or disaster recovery? Go right ahead. Compromising on genocide and using the military on US soil? You better not reach across the aisle on that if you want my support. Fetterman deserves to be judged by the company he keeps.
"Please do not contact"?!? Dude, you're a senator and that's the press. You're in the wrong job if you want to be able to ask to not be bothered by the press.
More of these guys want to keep the "official" post while dropping the "public" part...
I still can’t tell how much of this is sarcasm. I literally chortled out loud about half way through reading the quote, I think around where it said run for White House. Then the rest I didn’t know if I was supposed to be taking seriously.
Lol who knows? I mean, I'm sure he's still better than we would have got with Oz, but that presidential run thing made me laugh too. You already lost half the people that voted for you, and as we've seen playing across the aisle isn't getting anyone anywhere.
Who likes him?
People who drive Equinoxes
We literally do, though. We negotiate all the fucking time. Reagan was negotiating with terrorists when he said that.
Fetterman is a Democrat just like manchin is a Democrat, so basicly not a democrat.
Manchin was a democrat from a very right wing state. He never hid his views and that he was going to be very right wing democrat.
Fetterman said he was a progressive, ran as a progressive, and went hard right wing when he got in office. Yeah the brain damage changed him but I think he was always a Republican in Democrat clothes.
Goddamnit Fetterman be an actual democrat again for 5 minutes.
Why hasn't he been kicked out yet?
Seriously. He needs to be censured and removed from the party. Make him run as an independent.
Same reason Charlie Brown hasn't kicked that football
What's the process for removing a sitting Senator?
He hasn't been kicked out because he won the election, that's how that works.
The Senate can vote to remove a member with a two thirds vote. The last time it happened was 1862.
Need the ability for recall elections IMO
I mean…we have an impeached, pedophile, multiple convicted felon as president. The wheels for moving someone unfit out of office have been painted over with gold glue made in china, for make America great
Kinda think we’re past ballot and closing in on ammo box
The rules for removing a president are onerous to the point of unviability in a two party system.
Well the literal answer to your question is guns
However what I thought was pretty clear in context is that I was referring to the Democratic party, not the Senate nor existence.
Because there are lots of Fettermen. He's just the most visible one.
Even if Fetterman was primaried, there would just be a new rotating villain.
PA has some of poorest, worst quality of life conditions I have seen in this country. They really need to boot Fetterman. Jesus, wtf?
....what? Are you sure you've been to Pennsylvania?
Fetterman can get fucked though, I'm with you there
Yeah, generalizations aren’t great. I’ve seen beautiful parts too. I have driven through and have family from small towns out in the country
I live in PA. But I've generally stayed on the east/west borders (meaning near Philadelphia and Pittsburgh). There are a lot of other areas (I've driven through, or around), and they may fit what you are saying more than people realize.
Fuck me Angus, et tu!?
Seems like he thinks the shutdown is actually better for Trump-
https://apicciano.commons.gc.cuny.edu/2025/03/15/the-ten-democrats-who-voted-to-avert-a-federal-government-shutdown
I read his comments on the vote there, and I just don't agree with him. Somehow if the government isn't shutdown the Democrats will grow a spine? Idk, it just seems like his reasoning being they can cause chaos,..'gestures broadly'... Seems like we already have chaos
Hope they downgrade the US’s credit reputation yet again.
Last time they did that, sales of Treasuries actually went up. Quixotically, the downgrade hurt the stock market. People divested of equities. And then they needed to move the money to a safe place. So.... uh.... Treasuries.
Not gold?
Gold has a lot of transaction friction.
Honestly, so did I. Good for them.
They have balls?
Well, it doesn’t take balls to do nothing—buuuut, yes hold the line.
well yeah. they know once we hit november first its going to be more obvious to more folks what their bend over bill really does.
I'm sorry, but the rules for how your government works are so confusing.
And requiring budget bills to pass every year or you entire government shuts down is a bug most other democracies patched out last century. (You just make everything roll over by default if you can't pass a budget). The US Government seems to be constantly in shut down. It's kinda dumb folks, it doesn't need to be this way.
I could have sworn I heard that the 100 person US senate only needs 51 members to pass a bill, but I vaguely heard they don't want to do that because it overrides the option to filibuster?
What???
Very lost over here
One thing Schumer's good at is doing nohting.
Fair play to the Democrats, but they are still untrustworthy.
Can we stop being childish and more practical. Perfection doesn't exist,
And then when Dems get into power again, let them enable fascism all over again? They had 4 years to curb stomp fascism but they didn't.
What's practical is to primary progressives. "Perfection is the enemy of good" is a thought terminating cliché to accept breadcrumbs. Outside of US, it's actually a common mindset among conservatives they tell to electorates to accept the status quo.
You are a person who doesn't know who joe manchin is.
But yes, Dems are inadequate. That's why we need people mobilizing in every local for further left candidates. But that doesn't mean don't vote for dems... They're still better than repubs
Wow a politician is untrustworthy? 😯
this maybe the best way to reduce our government’s size…
Let's start with the most worthless, lying, thieving, and corrupt heads of state in the history of the USA.
I would have started with the people pulling the levers instead of starving out the essential gears that keep a government running.
What’s the right size for a government? And not just any government — the federal government for the richest country in the world?
Do people think at all before speaking?
I smell a Republican.
Yeah it smells like bullshit.
Biden destroyed Trump in 2020. Harris made him look like a blubbering child in their debate.
Trump is blessed that about 10 million people who voted for Biden are stupid and immature.
What do you think is the right course of action? How could the Democrats turn the shutdown into a win?
Extended shut downs usually go against the ruling party.
They should hold the line and only compromise if they get real, serious concessions from the other side.
I think it’s pretty common for Dems to fall victim to their own principles in moments where good strategy still exists. There’s nothing that says the GOP can’t change the rules to pass their funding bill with 51 votes. That’s the story Dems should be telling nonstop. This isn’t a Dem shutdown, the GOP possesses all the tools the need to get their agenda done — simply tell that story and let the GOP own it and Dems walk away winners.