Actually Argentina got $20 Billion so it's like 1,000x worse
And no those customers don't want to buy our crops anymore BECAUSE WE WERE GIANT ASSHATS so we better put our big boy capitalist pants on and find new ways to earn a living
What's an extra 20 billion between despots? Like a rounding error eh? Actually unsure on the Argentina side but if Trump okays billions I think that says enough.
Before the 2018 trade war, the soybean experts to China were only $12.8 billion. And that was the top. It's been significantly less since then even before this second full stop.
i'm sure if we all hit the pavement and go country to country we'll find someone willing to buy our exports. there's plenty of money out there for people who are willing to work for it
it went to 40bn, its also alot worst, because that 40bn is going to bessenets friends who invested badly in argentina, so they are getting profit off of that aid.
I am not from south America, but had the luck of being able to listen to a lecture of a professor from brasil and he talked about how farming works in brasil and what consequences it has. I am not sure how much stuff you can find in English, but his name is Antonio Androlio.
Im actually brasillian haha and financially those taxes do help, had to study that a lot for the university entrance exams here. Would it help more if was another industry? Yes, big farmers hardly spread their profits to other areas. Does it suck for the enviroment? Yes, I wish we would move to other ways to make money. But its still helpful, we don't really export much else besides that and iron ore.
As a brasillian its the exact same thing here sadly. With tariffs our meat exports got crippled badly so I expected to have a lot of high quality cheap meat at the market but... Yup, the producers prefer not to lose their product than to sell domestically and bring down the prices, fuck those guys
This is hilarious and I upvoted. But it's also not accurate, and presenting it this way makes Trump look like a giga chad tricking bullies into punishing themselves, when he's more like just king of a mentally ill cult. I won't take my upvote back because I voted for Trump one time 9 years ago and I can't take that back
I regret your use of the word "gigachad", but "Tricking bigots into punishing themselves" is the precise description of the Republican party.
That's not a good thing. The theme of American history is "Rich whites convinced poor whites to destroy their own public goods out of fear that someone not like them might benefit too."
It's not mental illness. It's not economic anxiety. It's not ethics in gaming journalism. It's white supremacy.
Oh, so you haven't learned much at all, you just felt too much shame to keep up the support.
Your narrative here is that moral impurity and disability are not only intertwined, but are also responsible for the worst elements of our world. That's fascism.
I'm morally impure but trying to survive. Many people have called me retarded, but there are also plenty of actual disabled people who are more morally pure than me.
I say the problem isn't the disabled or the morally impure, it's a huge cult with such a serious sickness they seem to want extinction.
If you're committed to unlearning the fascism, you should know that the narrative that it's just "mentally ill" people that voted for him is also not accurate and is infact ableist. White affluent Americans have been primed to endorse these values for centuries, it isn't new and it isn't disabled people's fault.
Most farmers voted to burn their own fields... again. The same man who nearly crippled American agriculture last time was welcomed with open arms. Tariffs, trade wars, and labor shortages wrecked their profits before, but somehow they lined up for another round. It is like watching someone hire the same man who burned down their house and expecting him to rebuild it this time.
in his first term, i read an article where the farmers were hopeful he would turn things around despite him putitng the tariffs in the first time. theres no helping these people.
After his Trade War on the first term, Trump gave major subsidies and bailouts which really benefited large farmers. Trump promised similar subsidies for this term, and Trump actually delivered on that in his spending bill; but farmers were expecting more than what was promised, and they haven't gotten that.
This really needs to be higher up.
Farmers are millionaires who got massive bailouts and tax breaks the first Trump term. They were expecting the same thing this time around which is why they voted for him again. They voted for their bank account over human suffering and the destruction of America
Nearly every single ally is distancing themselves from us, especially on trade.
Our word is worth even less than it was before because we can just elect someone who unilaterally reverses course and breaks treatys at the drop of a hat.
Currently saber rattling to an absurd degree against countries that were close allies less than a year ago.
Economy as a whole is being destroyed to such a degree that the dollar will soon no longer be the world reserve currency, giving up yet more economic power and stability.
Complete gutting of science and medical funding which will put us decades behind research that we were in the forefront of.
Completely stopping investment into renewable energy, giving up the opportunity to be a world leader in the future of energy and thus just allowing ourselves to be left behind when the switch becomes impossible to prevent, which will probably devastate the economy further down the road yet again.
The only thing we will have is the military, and though I don't like how much we spend on it or anything, they're still fucking that up because cooties are gross.
If only there were signs that a spoiled, deranged imbecile, pedofile who bankrupted so many companies that he ended up as a game show host wouldn’t be a great leader
Enforced by a foreign occupation after half of the tyrant's supporters got killed, but the occupation doesn't bother killing or at least keeping the rest of them from running the state and corporations like nothing happened?
There can't be a foreign occupation. Our nuclear warheads guarantee that the only way the USA falls is from civil unrest. No one is going to rush a nation capable of Mutually-Assured Destruction.
The dismantling of NATO, all of the "soft power" has gone down the drain, the US being subservient to Russia. It has basically already happened. We are just waiting for everyone to acknowledge it, because every leader in the Western world are desperately clinging to a world view which no longer exists.
Customer retention is a huge thing. Customers are often hard to get and easy to lose. Piss them off and they'll find an alternative and they are not coming back. Trump has crippled us for decades.
But Trump knows that his base will still vote for him regardless of how his policies directly impact them.
Their desire for hate and oppression trumps (pun intended) whatever economic hardship they face.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
Doesn't matter what his base thinks, or who they vote for. Guess my point is that it's too late to turn around and regain our "customer's" trust.
When the manager, who was approved by the employees, belts every 4th guy in the door straight in the teeth, that stores custom is drying up and it's not coming back.
It can, but it doesn't mean it will be good or useful at all lol but I get what you're saying. Government is for people, business is for profit. People and profit are not compatible as the purpose of the entity. Just look at the US Healthcare "Industry" for the most glaring example of this.
You've summed it up exactly. Business is for profit, government is for people. To expand slightly more on the thought here's what I say:
Unproductive members of a business are fired. You can't do that with people. Well you can, but then we call that euthanasia or mass murder or other such things.
A business is made up of folks that are, in the main, healthy, relatively trained and able to work. Assuming that the business is a good one and is one of those "one career" type things, you have them for about 35 years. A country has to take care of people from birth to death. So that's like another fifty or so years.
Everything that a business does and everyone it hires is (theoretically) there to help expand and grow the business and it's associated profits. It doesn't need things like a military which sucks up profit and is only used once in a while.
A business doesn't normally rely on its own employees to generate its profits. They might contribute, for instance Esso employees are probably paying for gas, but the vast majority of the profits are coming off non-Esso people.
I think they might try to move us farmers to farm for in country consumption instead of exporting. Not that other countries already do that for much cheaper with healthier soil.
What I don't get is how come this hasn't translated to more plentiful and cheaper soybeans here for the local market. You can't buy fresh soybeans at my local grocery store. You can only get them frozen and they're about four bucks a bag. Which isn't hugely expensive but it's not exactly cheap either.
You think things are going to get cheaper just because there's an excess of it? No, no, that's not how that works here. You're used to paying $4 a bag, therefore you will continue paying $4 a bag or more until the heat death of the universe. I'll be surprised if it isn't $6 a bag by this time next year.
Anything not sold will, obviously, be destroyed. Can't have anyone trying to eat it for free.
They don't usually harvest and store them fresh. Most are harvested and stored dry, but generally need additional processing to be used... there's just not the domestic capacity to use it all. They can only supplement feeding farm animals and unless processed beforehand, are just like cooking any other dry bean.
Soy is great, you can make some really good-tasting, high-protein food with it for very cheap. But I'm afraid there won't be a lot of cheap soy in grocery stores, instead those farmers will just go bankrupt.
More likely feedstock for bio-fuels, which also gives Republicans heartburn because the only proper fuel for their SUV is sucked out of the ground under pressure from toxic chemical-laced fracking mud, like the Good Lord intended.
That doesn't make sense. Adding paperwork isn't going to lower labor costs.
Undocumented workers are already the least paid, least protected category of worker.
They'd be switching from workers with no minimum wage to ones that have a minimum wage, need to be properly tracked by the IRS and all that.
In my state undocumented farm workers make a little more than minimum wage. After this rule change they will be able to legally pay them less.
These are the two most important points of the blog or article I posted:
DOL’s Reasoning. The DOL estimates that agricultural employers will save over $24 billion over the next 10 years as a result of these changes.
AEWR Examples. For some states, these AEWR changes will mean that the state minimum wage will become the highest applicable wage rate for H-2A workers. For other states, the new AEWRs will be lower than the state’s minimum wage. For example, California’s statewide hourly minimum wage for most employers for 2025 is $16.50. However, the new hourly AEWR in California after applying the state’s $3.00 downward adjustment for nonmonetary compensation is $13.45 for entry-level H-2A workers in the Skill I category and $15.71 for experienced H-2A workers in the Skill Level II category.
I feel like what you're missing is that this is lowering the floor for what you can pay visa holders, but saying that will make them preferable to people where there is no floor doesn't follow.
I feel like you are still missing a piece of this puzzle.
It turns the migrant farm workers into almost an indentured servitude type class. Right now they demand free market wages which is often above minimum wage in that state. Once their immigration status is tied to their employer they have no ability to shop around for better pay.
So sure there is no "floor" right now, but the free market is the floor. This change might benefit some migrants who are getting bad deals currently, but overall it will harm the migrant workforce and drive labor costs down.
Without this migrant labor would get more and more expensive, as more and more people are deported.
Once their immigration status is tied to their employer they have no ability to shop around for better pay.
So why would they enter the program? They currently have demonstrated that they have no problem not having an immigration status, so why would they switch to having something that doesn't benefit them, that they don't want, and that costs them money?
Their goal is to make the legal path cheaper to appeal to farmers, but farmers aren't the ones driving the price. As you said: market rate is higher than this guarantees people. If there's a growing shortage of labor you can expect labor wages to rise. Why would you agree to work for less if you can just go to a different farm and make more?
I understand your point and the situation perfectly well.
migrant labor would get more and more expensive, as more and more people are deported.
I believe this is why you're wrong, and farmers aren't hoping it goes faster, but rather voted again their own interests like so many have, and just didn't think they would specifically target their livelihoods.
A racist administration deporting people aggressively, lowering the incentives to come here legally, and not caring about the consequences, while farmers scramble to control damage they didn't think was actually going to happen is a way simpler story. Also fits nicely with "America first" burning the ability of those farmers to sell to a global market, canceling programs that gave them money, and canceling food aid orders that mostly existed as back handed subsidies.
I think it's better understood as many different factions with their own desires:
Those who want raw power for the sake of power. Trump is almost certainly personally in this category. This is probably the primary motivation behind the Project 2025 stuff, tearing down the guardrails that limit their power.
Those who are trying to enrich themselves: Trump's family is probably here, and Trump himself and his inner circle do seem to be motivated by financial gain to some degree.
Those who want to use the Trump administration to make the U.S. whiter by expelling non-white people and restricting immigration of brown people (while increasing white refugees admitted).
Those who want to assert dominance of certain types of Christianity (with some internal tension on whether that extends to Catholics/Protestant/Mormon/other beliefs)
Those who want the government to pursue business friendly policies like lower taxes and lower business regulations.
Those who want to leverage the government's power to win a culture war (bullying schools, libraries, Hollywood, the media, etc., into supporting right-wing cultural principles).
There is tension between all of these things, and there's tension within the Trump coalition. The business interests and the immigration hardliners jockey for position with Trump and his inner circle. The religious groups and the war hawks and the cryptocurrency scammers are all trying to advance their own agenda, too.
Not everything is going to make coherent sense. Not every idea is going to win, either. And if anything, the business side of things is less powerful than in the typical administration with several areas that are actively hostile to traditional Republican business interests (immigration, tariffs, pardoning securities fraudsters, shaking down corporations for donations or tribute).
It's important to recognize the tensions because those are also weak spots in their coalition. Defeating fascism will involve fomenting some internal tensions and peeling off different factions.
When this shitshow is over It would be nice if we could reconstruct our farming practices to focus more small local and sustainable farming instead of corporate conglomerates that damage our environment and wipe out biodiversity.
I'm of a generation that has a Clarissa Explains It All understanding of tofu, our hippy dippy parents attempted to substitute tofu for meat in western dishes and pretended to like it. Show me how to really prepare tofu.
This is why farmers shouldn't monocrop. Even if a farmer doesn't care about the environment and soil health, monocropping makes a farmer vulnerable to the volatile nature of geopolitics and the global economy.
They don't?
Afaik soy is an off season crop to balance nitrogen(?) in the ground.
But not being able to sell your harvest 50% of the time is still pretty bad.
Canada, Russia, Belarus and China are the major players in potash mining and production. The US doesn't mine or produce any in a substantial number. The US has huge import tariffs on China, and can't currently buy from either Russia or Belarus.
Canada needs to put a 50-70% export tariff on potash. That would crush US farming.
If Trump wants to play, let's burn them to the ground. Here is your 51st state you cunt.
Read what I said. I said EXPORT tariffs. These are taxed at the border, by Canada, to the buyer exporting - IE; the farmers and supply chain in the US. These aren't like Trump's import tariffs but they have the same effect to Americans.
The only effect this would have on Canada is MAYBE some reduced sales, but US farmers don't have a choice with this product. They literally can't buy it from anywhere else in the numbers they need.
And yes, the design would be to cause even further damage to US farming because of Trump. It's a huge power play Canada has. They want to reduce our added tax on potash? They need to drop or reduce tariffs on their end.
US buyers are technically importing potash to the USA, but the tariff is considered an export tariff because it's leaving Canada. The tariff is on the buyer in the US.
You can have sensible tariffs that do the intended job of encouraging a domestic market, but you need to have both supply and demand available domestically.
For example, Canada has an import tariff on milk and other dairy because we produce and consume our own dairy products. If some giant US milk conglomerate could start importing on the cheap it would legitimately harm the Canadian economy.
The US government has been doing this forever. For example, meat and dairy farmers are heavily subsidized. They couldn't survive if they weren't subsidized.
For example, meat and dairy farmers are heavily subsidized.
They're subsidized to regulate productivity. You don't want large fluctuations in the supply of staple goods, so you offer a price floor that's cost of production + vig to guarantee a certain volume of retail surplus.
If you want to get extra fancy, you turn the excess into a good that you can preserve for long periods (excess milk turned into Government Cheese) that you can then store in the event of a supply contraction or dole out abroad for goodwill as material aid.
The only real caveat is that you need the agricultural property owned by actual working people, rather than some enormous private conglomerate or trust. The goal is to guarantee a steady supply of his that still offers gainful employment, not to create a massive shareholder give away for folks who will still fuck with the supply chain
Ok, ultra corrupt and all, but at least from environmental pov (especially water) killing soy where USA grew it en masse is a really good thing afaik.
It was too forced & unsustainable.
I dont know if country's in south America are filling the gap the US created, but if yes its probably much worse than farming in the US.
I once had the chance to hear a lecture from a Brazilian professor about how soy gets grown in Brasil and that shit was terrifying. Slavery like working conditions. Corruption, massive landgrabs, insane use of pesticides (they literally used to apply them with airplanes until it got banned due to health "concerns" (it actively destroys your health) for the civilians) and mono cultures all the way through. It was very informative, but fucking scary. Due to the fact that massive sizes of land are not really listed and nobody owns them. So farmers are literally creating their own documents, that say they own certain land, put them in a drawer with crickets, so the paper looks older than it is, go to the local government and surprise, they now own even more land.
So farmers are literally creating their own documents, that say they own certain land, put them in a drawer with crickets, so the paper looks older than it is
Well, I mean, if the price skyrockets & the purchasing power keeps falling finally y'all gonna get into veggie patties. Non-soy veggie patties (which sux anyways).
To be fair, killing farming in the USA wasn't a difficult task. Most countries importing any American food products have had major restrictions on them for years due to safety and hygiene concerns. The EU, for instance, pretty much only imported some soy and grain, because anything else doesn't meet our quality standards. There only had to be a single minor inconvenience here to end the imports from the USA.
And in all honesty - wonderful news for Europeans. I don't think any of us will miss American products. Personally I'll happily pay a tiny bit more for soy from Brazil or China.
The European colonial empires fell sixty years ago, and it wasn't even out of sheer stupidity that America is doing right now. China is laughing out of sheer happiness that they are filling the vacuum that US is leving due to plain stupidity.
Dude I have some form of severe ibs. Going whole-foods plant-based was the best thing I ever did for my gut. Like I am literally on the verge of complete remission, held back only by occasionally eating things that throw a wrench in it like using too much salt, and occasionally eating processed foods containing industrial emulsifiers (it's hard to give up sriracha ☹️).
And yes, beans and particularly soy beans are a large part of that diet, and have been hugely beneficial.
I lowkey think it might be an actual allergy, because it makes stuff come out both ends simultaneously, but insurance doesn't want to cover allergy testing if I don't have a history of anaphylaxis, so fuck me I guess. I'm also wondering if IBS is even the correct diagnosis, and maybe my gut problems are related to the bone spurs compressing my spinal cord in my neck, but again, insurance.
Right now my diet is primarily rice, zucchini, and canned tuna, no spices, no fat, nothing that makes it even remotely palatable. Adding fiber makes it worse. I used to be such a foodie, and this is hell.
I haven't had one in forever because they're fried in soy oil and it aggravates my IBS. I had to quit working at Wendy's because the amount of fry oil I ingested just from working the fryers made my guts stop working right.
Americans are learning the hard way that elections have consequences, and I’m loving it. Sadly, most still won’t learn. I said it before and I’ll continue to say it that Trump, Elon and their lackies are anarchists. They are destroying the government because they hate government (because it gets in their way) and they’re not going to put any of it back. He’ll be gone and we’ll have some broken, ghetto, incompetent government that can’t put the pieces back together and it’s what we’ll be stuck with for generations to come while other countries progress.
Americans are learning the hard way that elections have consequences, and I’m loving it.
You think? I tend to doubt it. Seeing as these are the same lessons since Reagan and they've only gotten more popular. They don't know why they hate government. That's the real lesson they won't learn.
It's the lesson the rest of the world will need to learn super, super quickly, too. It's about media. And therein is the clue as to why no one will learn it without a big effort.
Hard to say. Currently it seems so, but historically, even in the US, famers are often at the forefront of socialist sentiments. Even if they look different from what one expects.
You know how much specialized farming equipment costs? That's like you owning a plumbing business and the government then screwing over your business somehow and someone going, well, you can always just start a electrician business. Like, sure you have some basic tools that might crossover, but it's an entirely different field that you know nothing about. There's significant risk as you know very little about that new crop, you may not have connections for distribution, you might not be scaled correctly to handle the nutrient or water needs. It requires extensive planning and if you fuck up one thing in that crop (i.e. you now have a weird blight or mildew or destructive animal you never planned for), you could be properly fucked.
You can't seriously believe they knew anything about what he was going to do. Despite it being published and mocked and criticized and the topic of conversation for months.
Specialization is a specific kind of business risk that these farms accepted years ago.
You can lower your production cost, but at the risk of having all of your eggs in one basket. Crop diversification requires more equipment, more expertise, and potentially lower yields, but it reduces exposure to problems facing a single crop.
These farmers took that risk knowing that last time this happed Trump bailed them out. They had every reason to think it would happen again.
I was actually thinking planting some vegetables and selling them to people who live in a food desert. But it’s questionable anyone would eat them unless deep fried I assume
You could start by giving some away. You'll get people's attention, get them used to cooking more. Then you could also put out a request for donations or volunteer farmers who'd maybe get first pick of the crop. Good way to make friends and build community. Sooner or later maybe you can start a produce stand and turn a profit, and maybe before long you've got enough people involved to start a regular farmer's market. That kind of local resilience would do a lot of good.
I cook pretty much every single meal for my family from scratch, even breads. I've worked as a chef though, and I know what I'm doing. I'm not in the states anymore, but I know that many people who live in food deserts don't have affordable access to fresh produce or basic staples. What I said above was tailored to people in that situation.
I think ‘morons’, while technically accurate is missing the nuance that conservative media deserts are where these voters live. They’re not on Lemmy, they’re not even on reddit. They’re on facebook and they watch Fox News. Their local paper is written by and for others who watch Fox News. That’s “the world” afatk.
The Left has zero plan to combat this, and even less money and interest in doing so.
But the purpose of modern American agriculture isn't to feed people, its to profit landlords.
If landlords can't profit, they won't produce a surplus. And without a surplus, our economy contracts, forcing more workers into unemployment. Without employment, they can't afford food, utilities, or rent. And that leads to malnutrition, poverty, and eventually death.
Actually Argentina got $20 Billion so it's like 1,000x worse
And no those customers don't want to buy our crops anymore BECAUSE WE WERE GIANT ASSHATS so we better put our big boy capitalist pants on and find new ways to earn a living
I thought it got doubled to 40 billion.
You're right
So it's actually 2,000x worse
What's an extra 20 billion between despots? Like a rounding error eh? Actually unsure on the Argentina side but if Trump okays billions I think that says enough.
I thought they were referring to the Argentina Soybean sales to China. What is the value of 10 cargo ships of soybeans?
Before the 2018 trade war, the soybean experts to China were only $12.8 billion. And that was the top. It's been significantly less since then even before this second full stop.
i'm sure if we all hit the pavement and go country to country we'll find someone willing to buy our exports. there's plenty of money out there for people who are willing to work for it
"Guys, could you help me kill US farming? I'll give you money?"
they should be GRATEFUL that tyson, perdue, foster farms or any of the large farms corporation allows them to work for them.
it went to 40bn, its also alot worst, because that 40bn is going to bessenets friends who invested badly in argentina, so they are getting profit off of that aid.
:::
Big thanks from Brasil. Our soy exports are up like 30%
Corn and soy are about the only agricultural products that aren't extremely scarce this year...
Guess what the US exports instead of buying from Brasil? Nature wants them to fail too.
Honestly you're welcome. I'm glad someone is benefiting from this absolute shit show.
Sadly its not the people of brasil profiting, but massive farms with millions of hectares.
Mostly rich farmers though we still get indirect profits from taxes
Yeah, but I doubt, that the benefits the taxes bring outweigh the damage the farming does to the civilians and the local ecosystem
Are you from here or have some info you want to share?
I am not from south America, but had the luck of being able to listen to a lecture of a professor from brasil and he talked about how farming works in brasil and what consequences it has. I am not sure how much stuff you can find in English, but his name is Antonio Androlio.
Im actually brasillian haha and financially those taxes do help, had to study that a lot for the university entrance exams here. Would it help more if was another industry? Yes, big farmers hardly spread their profits to other areas. Does it suck for the enviroment? Yes, I wish we would move to other ways to make money. But its still helpful, we don't really export much else besides that and iron ore.
I just wish I could find soy milk in the supermarket. I hate that we don't prioritize our internal market first.
As a brasillian its the exact same thing here sadly. With tariffs our meat exports got crippled badly so I expected to have a lot of high quality cheap meat at the market but... Yup, the producers prefer not to lose their product than to sell domestically and bring down the prices, fuck those guys
Sou brasileira amigo, tô falando do Brasil msm 😅
Eh nois entao haha
Guess the farmers will have to sell their farms to billionaires for half price now.
Go work for Amazon while Jeff Bezos uses your land to save money on groceries.
As was the plan all along.
Thanks ignorant suckers! Now gtfo or join our corporate family sharecropping platform, Slavr.
Sign up for Slavr Prime and get free 2-day whipping on orders of $25 or more.
All because racism is like crack for 1/3rd of white Americans. They'll destroy their families and livelihood once they get a whiff of it.
I would MUCH rather LITERALLY LOSE MY ENTIRE INDUSTRY AND WAY OF LIFE then to have ONE Trans Kid NOT feel suicidal!
-LITERALLY all Republican Voters!
This is hilarious and I upvoted. But it's also not accurate, and presenting it this way makes Trump look like a giga chad tricking bullies into punishing themselves, when he's more like just king of a mentally ill cult. I won't take my upvote back because I voted for Trump one time 9 years ago and I can't take that back
I regret your use of the word "gigachad", but "Tricking bigots into punishing themselves" is the precise description of the Republican party.
That's not a good thing. The theme of American history is "Rich whites convinced poor whites to destroy their own public goods out of fear that someone not like them might benefit too."
It's not mental illness. It's not economic anxiety. It's not ethics in gaming journalism. It's white supremacy.
I'd definitely say white supremacy is mental illness though
Oh, so you haven't learned much at all, you just felt too much shame to keep up the support.
Your narrative here is that moral impurity and disability are not only intertwined, but are also responsible for the worst elements of our world. That's fascism.
You're a chud, go lick boots somewhere else.
I'm morally impure but trying to survive. Many people have called me retarded, but there are also plenty of actual disabled people who are more morally pure than me.
I say the problem isn't the disabled or the morally impure, it's a huge cult with such a serious sickness they seem to want extinction.
If you're committed to unlearning the fascism, you should know that the narrative that it's just "mentally ill" people that voted for him is also not accurate and is infact ableist. White affluent Americans have been primed to endorse these values for centuries, it isn't new and it isn't disabled people's fault.
Being unable to stop trying to commit mass suicide via climate change seems like a serious disability
It's a social sickness but it's not a disability.
They can control it and they have chosen to behave like this. You do not get that in a disability
People we both recognize as disabled are also told the exact same thing by others, that they're choosing to behave that way
And much like your attempt at comparison, it ain't true.
Not much like, then
More generally, VOTERS killed farming in America.
And the people who pointed out this would happen were laughed at or told we were being overdramatic
Congrats republicans, you MAGA'd your way to the downfall of America. Maka America Garbage Again
Let's not give them all the credit. All the dumbass nonvoters deserve their fair share of responsibility too.
Time to turn the tables. Never miss a chance to laugh at them
Well the alternative was voting for Harris and I think she would have gone around and personally shot the farmers.
I definitely heard her say she was going to do this
Many people were saying it
Kristi Noem was tapped by Harris to help take care of the farmer's animals.
Most farmers voted to burn their own fields... again. The same man who nearly crippled American agriculture last time was welcomed with open arms. Tariffs, trade wars, and labor shortages wrecked their profits before, but somehow they lined up for another round. It is like watching someone hire the same man who burned down their house and expecting him to rebuild it this time.
in his first term, i read an article where the farmers were hopeful he would turn things around despite him putitng the tariffs in the first time. theres no helping these people.
After his Trade War on the first term, Trump gave major subsidies and bailouts which really benefited large farmers. Trump promised similar subsidies for this term, and Trump actually delivered on that in his spending bill; but farmers were expecting more than what was promised, and they haven't gotten that.
This really needs to be higher up. Farmers are millionaires who got massive bailouts and tax breaks the first Trump term. They were expecting the same thing this time around which is why they voted for him again. They voted for their bank account over human suffering and the destruction of America
Bingo. If you haven't heard of her, I recommend you check out https://www.youtube.com/@FarmToTaber - I found her videos extremely informative.
IMO there's a good chance that Trump's second term will mark the end of the United States as a super power.
Speed running the collapse of an empire.
It really feels like that, doesn't it?
Any % Democracy death blind playthrough on a DDR pad.
It's guaranteed because it's basically already happened. The ramifications just take time to be felt
Farming is .8% of the GDP
Nearly every single ally is distancing themselves from us, especially on trade.
Our word is worth even less than it was before because we can just elect someone who unilaterally reverses course and breaks treatys at the drop of a hat.
Currently saber rattling to an absurd degree against countries that were close allies less than a year ago.
Economy as a whole is being destroyed to such a degree that the dollar will soon no longer be the world reserve currency, giving up yet more economic power and stability.
Complete gutting of science and medical funding which will put us decades behind research that we were in the forefront of.
Completely stopping investment into renewable energy, giving up the opportunity to be a world leader in the future of energy and thus just allowing ourselves to be left behind when the switch becomes impossible to prevent, which will probably devastate the economy further down the road yet again.
The only thing we will have is the military, and though I don't like how much we spend on it or anything, they're still fucking that up because cooties are gross.
The superpower thing has nothing to do with farming.
A has-been empire with a massive military and an aggressive desire to get back to the days when everyone respected them.
They'll probably decide, fear is as good as respect...
What massive military? Militaries only exist as long as they are paid.
If only there were signs that a spoiled, deranged imbecile, pedofile who bankrupted so many companies that he ended up as a game show host wouldn’t be a great leader
At this point that’s barely and opinion
The US needs a German style constitutional court to make sure you can’t have a dictator again.
...
Enforced by a foreign occupation after half of the tyrant's supporters got killed, but the occupation doesn't bother killing or at least keeping the rest of them from running the state and corporations like nothing happened?
There can't be a foreign occupation. Our nuclear warheads guarantee that the only way the USA falls is from civil unrest. No one is going to rush a nation capable of Mutually-Assured Destruction.
The dismantling of NATO, all of the "soft power" has gone down the drain, the US being subservient to Russia. It has basically already happened. We are just waiting for everyone to acknowledge it, because every leader in the Western world are desperately clinging to a world view which no longer exists.
In the grand scheme of things maybe not So bad
and destroy the republican base, gop too. hes taking everyone down with him, at the behest of putin.
Customer retention is a huge thing. Customers are often hard to get and easy to lose. Piss them off and they'll find an alternative and they are not coming back. Trump has crippled us for decades.
But Trump knows that his base will still vote for him regardless of how his policies directly impact them.
Their desire for hate and oppression trumps (pun intended) whatever economic hardship they face.
Doesn't matter what his base thinks, or who they vote for. Guess my point is that it's too late to turn around and regain our "customer's" trust.
When the manager, who was approved by the employees, belts every 4th guy in the door straight in the teeth, that stores custom is drying up and it's not coming back.
Dear US Farmers, You wanted America First... Enjoy being America Alone. Have the day you voted for.
kind regards, The rest of the world
Trump is bankrupting America like he bankrupted all of his businesses.
I couldn't believe how many people don't realize that a country literally CANNOT be run as a business.
It can, but it doesn't mean it will be good or useful at all lol but I get what you're saying. Government is for people, business is for profit. People and profit are not compatible as the purpose of the entity. Just look at the US Healthcare "Industry" for the most glaring example of this.
You've summed it up exactly. Business is for profit, government is for people. To expand slightly more on the thought here's what I say:
Unproductive members of a business are fired. You can't do that with people. Well you can, but then we call that euthanasia or mass murder or other such things.
A business is made up of folks that are, in the main, healthy, relatively trained and able to work. Assuming that the business is a good one and is one of those "one career" type things, you have them for about 35 years. A country has to take care of people from birth to death. So that's like another fifty or so years.
Everything that a business does and everyone it hires is (theoretically) there to help expand and grow the business and it's associated profits. It doesn't need things like a military which sucks up profit and is only used once in a while.
A business doesn't normally rely on its own employees to generate its profits. They might contribute, for instance Esso employees are probably paying for gas, but the vast majority of the profits are coming off non-Esso people.
Yes, but now the US can use all the water to train chatbots that invent facts wholecloth. Checkmate, China.
and still growing water hungry alfalfa for the middle east.
I think they might try to move us farmers to farm for in country consumption instead of exporting. Not that other countries already do that for much cheaper with healthier soil.
What I don't get is how come this hasn't translated to more plentiful and cheaper soybeans here for the local market. You can't buy fresh soybeans at my local grocery store. You can only get them frozen and they're about four bucks a bag. Which isn't hugely expensive but it's not exactly cheap either.
You think things are going to get cheaper just because there's an excess of it? No, no, that's not how that works here. You're used to paying $4 a bag, therefore you will continue paying $4 a bag or more until the heat death of the universe. I'll be surprised if it isn't $6 a bag by this time next year.
Anything not sold will, obviously, be destroyed. Can't have anyone trying to eat it for free.
They don't usually harvest and store them fresh. Most are harvested and stored dry, but generally need additional processing to be used... there's just not the domestic capacity to use it all. They can only supplement feeding farm animals and unless processed beforehand, are just like cooking any other dry bean.
Do you mean edamame? I think mature soy beans are normally dried for storage, but maybe I'm wrong?
This is why a responsible government is slow to change. Because move fast and break laws doesn't work for a democracy.
That's one way to get the farms into the hands of billionaires for cheap.
This was the goal all along. They want all that land in the hands of private equity. The farmers can lease it back if they want to try again. Serfdom.
So the us is just going full Great Depression again huh?
My wife said this tonight and it really hit me: China will be eating burgers and America will be eating soy
they are also eating soy and burgers.
I bet they'd love soy burgers?
I hope we all like soy beans because that is going to be the only affordable thing in the grocery store.
Soy is great, you can make some really good-tasting, high-protein food with it for very cheap. But I'm afraid there won't be a lot of cheap soy in grocery stores, instead those farmers will just go bankrupt.
More likely feedstock for bio-fuels, which also gives Republicans heartburn because the only proper fuel for their SUV is sucked out of the ground under pressure from toxic chemical-laced fracking mud, like the Good Lord intended.
Which is super hilarious because the same idiots who support Trump are the same idiots pushing Soy memes about how too much soy makes you gay/trans.
Except it won't be, because without a buyer the crops are going to rot in the fields.
That's what farm subsidies are for.
instead of government cheese we are going to have government tofu
Turns out the conservatives were the ones making America into soyboys all along.
I do! Been making and selling tempeh to my friends, also fried tofu is amazing.
Does that include edamame? If so, I don't see a down side...
They voted for this and it's going exactly to plan, they just wish the plan was faster.
The plan is to remove everyone undocumented and then bring them all back as H-2A visa labor paying them pennies on the dollar.
That doesn't make sense. Adding paperwork isn't going to lower labor costs.
Undocumented workers are already the least paid, least protected category of worker.
They'd be switching from workers with no minimum wage to ones that have a minimum wage, need to be properly tracked by the IRS and all that.
Haha, you think they are keeping the rules the same? https://www.fisherphillips.com/en/news-insights/dol-issues-game-changer-rule-for-h-2a-farmworker-wages.html
In my state undocumented farm workers make a little more than minimum wage. After this rule change they will be able to legally pay them less.
These are the two most important points of the blog or article I posted:
I feel like what you're missing is that this is lowering the floor for what you can pay visa holders, but saying that will make them preferable to people where there is no floor doesn't follow.
I feel like you are still missing a piece of this puzzle.
It turns the migrant farm workers into almost an indentured servitude type class. Right now they demand free market wages which is often above minimum wage in that state. Once their immigration status is tied to their employer they have no ability to shop around for better pay.
So sure there is no "floor" right now, but the free market is the floor. This change might benefit some migrants who are getting bad deals currently, but overall it will harm the migrant workforce and drive labor costs down.
Without this migrant labor would get more and more expensive, as more and more people are deported.
So why would they enter the program? They currently have demonstrated that they have no problem not having an immigration status, so why would they switch to having something that doesn't benefit them, that they don't want, and that costs them money?
Their goal is to make the legal path cheaper to appeal to farmers, but farmers aren't the ones driving the price. As you said: market rate is higher than this guarantees people. If there's a growing shortage of labor you can expect labor wages to rise. Why would you agree to work for less if you can just go to a different farm and make more?
I understand your point and the situation perfectly well.
I believe this is why you're wrong, and farmers aren't hoping it goes faster, but rather voted again their own interests like so many have, and just didn't think they would specifically target their livelihoods.
A racist administration deporting people aggressively, lowering the incentives to come here legally, and not caring about the consequences, while farmers scramble to control damage they didn't think was actually going to happen is a way simpler story. Also fits nicely with "America first" burning the ability of those farmers to sell to a global market, canceling programs that gave them money, and canceling food aid orders that mostly existed as back handed subsidies.
Lol.
The plan is slave labour
Gotta close that prison loophole.
I think it's better understood as many different factions with their own desires:
There is tension between all of these things, and there's tension within the Trump coalition. The business interests and the immigration hardliners jockey for position with Trump and his inner circle. The religious groups and the war hawks and the cryptocurrency scammers are all trying to advance their own agenda, too.
Not everything is going to make coherent sense. Not every idea is going to win, either. And if anything, the business side of things is less powerful than in the typical administration with several areas that are actively hostile to traditional Republican business interests (immigration, tariffs, pardoning securities fraudsters, shaking down corporations for donations or tribute).
It's important to recognize the tensions because those are also weak spots in their coalition. Defeating fascism will involve fomenting some internal tensions and peeling off different factions.
When this shitshow is over It would be nice if we could reconstruct our farming practices to focus more small local and sustainable farming instead of corporate conglomerates that damage our environment and wipe out biodiversity.
Lol might as well ask for the wholesale dismantling of all capitalism...
(Yes please)
I think Europe has better farming practices
I just know they have better quality food so it can’t be as bad as the subsidized corporate poison here
Padme: this will mean cheaper soy products for U.S. domestic market, right?
I eat quite a bit of soy because I'm meatless.
Right?
...Right... ?
We all gonna be meatless soon, insect meat maybe
Insects actually taste pretty fucking good, man.
Having tried both, I prefer oat milk to soy milk.
There's a few recipes for silken tofu I'll get around to trying out though.
I prefer the taste of oat, but I go with soy because it is a close second for me and has better nutritional content (namely protein and fiber).
I'm of a generation that has a Clarissa Explains It All understanding of tofu, our hippy dippy parents attempted to substitute tofu for meat in western dishes and pretended to like it. Show me how to really prepare tofu.
This is why farmers shouldn't monocrop. Even if a farmer doesn't care about the environment and soil health, monocropping makes a farmer vulnerable to the volatile nature of geopolitics and the global economy.
They don't? Afaik soy is an off season crop to balance nitrogen(?) in the ground. But not being able to sell your harvest 50% of the time is still pretty bad.
This.
Actually, shit is a great fertilizer. If he had dumped it on the farm fields that need it, it would have been a better video.
Couldn't even ask AI to recreate that video with correct mask placement lol. Trump is a huge fucking loser.
Canada, Russia, Belarus and China are the major players in potash mining and production. The US doesn't mine or produce any in a substantial number. The US has huge import tariffs on China, and can't currently buy from either Russia or Belarus.
Canada needs to put a 50-70% export tariff on potash. That would crush US farming.
If Trump wants to play, let's burn them to the ground. Here is your 51st state you cunt.
This is idiotic. You are literally suggesting Canada follows Trump example and try to use tariffs to hurt another country.
Canadian potash producers have no reason to be punished with tariffs.
Tariffs damage your own country. Not the enemy. This is literally what you're complaining about.
Read what I said. I said EXPORT tariffs. These are taxed at the border, by Canada, to the buyer exporting - IE; the farmers and supply chain in the US. These aren't like Trump's import tariffs but they have the same effect to Americans.
The only effect this would have on Canada is MAYBE some reduced sales, but US farmers don't have a choice with this product. They literally can't buy it from anywhere else in the numbers they need.
And yes, the design would be to cause even further damage to US farming because of Trump. It's a huge power play Canada has. They want to reduce our added tax on potash? They need to drop or reduce tariffs on their end.
Buyers import. Sellers export. Your example does not make logical sense.
as he said "EXPORT tariffs. These are taxed at the border, by Canada, to the buyer exporting", which would be those farmers
Wait, why not?
US buyers are technically importing potash to the USA, but the tariff is considered an export tariff because it's leaving Canada. The tariff is on the buyer in the US.
You can have sensible tariffs that do the intended job of encouraging a domestic market, but you need to have both supply and demand available domestically.
For example, Canada has an import tariff on milk and other dairy because we produce and consume our own dairy products. If some giant US milk conglomerate could start importing on the cheap it would legitimately harm the Canadian economy.
Cool story bro. Read the conversation next time. The topic was potash tariffs.
The topic was potash tariffs until they gave an example using a different product. That's how examples work.
Its not universally true that tariffs harm your own country.
If the US really is dependent on a specific thing from a specific country then that country can absolutely harm the US by applying a tariff to it.
I'm going to end up emigrating from this fucking country primarily so I can stop bailing out dumbfucks.
This is absurd.
We're going to bail out "bootstrap" assholes after they were warned they were going to kill their own livelihoods. Fuck that clown shit.
The US government has been doing this forever. For example, meat and dairy farmers are heavily subsidized. They couldn't survive if they weren't subsidized.
They're subsidized to regulate productivity. You don't want large fluctuations in the supply of staple goods, so you offer a price floor that's cost of production + vig to guarantee a certain volume of retail surplus.
If you want to get extra fancy, you turn the excess into a good that you can preserve for long periods (excess milk turned into Government Cheese) that you can then store in the event of a supply contraction or dole out abroad for goodwill as material aid.
The only real caveat is that you need the agricultural property owned by actual working people, rather than some enormous private conglomerate or trust. The goal is to guarantee a steady supply of his that still offers gainful employment, not to create a massive shareholder give away for folks who will still fuck with the supply chain
But where are you gonna go? Most countries don't want more refugees
Australia here.
I've been saying all along that we'd happily exchange some fuckwits for some lefty seppos.
Chuck another shrimp on the barbie mate strewth.
Haha yeah I'm Australian too. And agree, lefty seppos would be a welcome change from a lot of the fuckwits we have around here..
But also, I don't want to add more fuckwits so how do we filter out the gun loving Maga psychos?
Ok, ultra corrupt and all, but at least from environmental pov (especially water) killing soy where USA grew it en masse is a really good thing afaik.
It was too forced & unsustainable.
I dont know if country's in south America are filling the gap the US created, but if yes its probably much worse than farming in the US.
I once had the chance to hear a lecture from a Brazilian professor about how soy gets grown in Brasil and that shit was terrifying. Slavery like working conditions. Corruption, massive landgrabs, insane use of pesticides (they literally used to apply them with airplanes until it got banned due to health "concerns" (it actively destroys your health) for the civilians) and mono cultures all the way through. It was very informative, but fucking scary. Due to the fact that massive sizes of land are not really listed and nobody owns them. So farmers are literally creating their own documents, that say they own certain land, put them in a drawer with crickets, so the paper looks older than it is, go to the local government and surprise, they now own even more land.
Very true.
Tho that is true for any industry in such countries.
And it's not like fairly similar things don't happen in USA farming.
Wait, what?
That was literally my reaction when I heard this.
USA: "let's try beef instead"
Well, I mean, if the price skyrockets & the purchasing power keeps falling finally y'all gonna get into veggie patties. Non-soy veggie patties (which sux anyways).
That is the result of a hyper individualist society, USA is literally the cancer of the world and now it's hurting itself
To be fair, killing farming in the USA wasn't a difficult task. Most countries importing any American food products have had major restrictions on them for years due to safety and hygiene concerns. The EU, for instance, pretty much only imported some soy and grain, because anything else doesn't meet our quality standards. There only had to be a single minor inconvenience here to end the imports from the USA.
And in all honesty - wonderful news for Europeans. I don't think any of us will miss American products. Personally I'll happily pay a tiny bit more for soy from Brazil or China.
What a bunch of welfare queens. They should have planted crops people want to buy.
The European colonial empires fell sixty years ago, and it wasn't even out of sheer stupidity that America is doing right now. China is laughing out of sheer happiness that they are filling the vacuum that US is leving due to plain stupidity.
"Temporary" my ass. They are going to beg for those evil socialistic handouts for the coming years. Simply because it is unlikely to get better.
Well yeah, farm subsidies aren’t new.
Another nail for the coffin of US society. Keep it going USA you can do it.
The "we" in the "we walled ourselves in" is not a fucking "we", buddy, it is a "you"
We’re fucking attack on Titan now
Foreshadowing for what happens next.
I'm hoping this means low soy-food prices. And other beans. Beans are the best.
cries in IBS
Dude I have some form of severe ibs. Going whole-foods plant-based was the best thing I ever did for my gut. Like I am literally on the verge of complete remission, held back only by occasionally eating things that throw a wrench in it like using too much salt, and occasionally eating processed foods containing industrial emulsifiers (it's hard to give up sriracha ☹️).
And yes, beans and particularly soy beans are a large part of that diet, and have been hugely beneficial.
I lowkey think it might be an actual allergy, because it makes stuff come out both ends simultaneously, but insurance doesn't want to cover allergy testing if I don't have a history of anaphylaxis, so fuck me I guess. I'm also wondering if IBS is even the correct diagnosis, and maybe my gut problems are related to the bone spurs compressing my spinal cord in my neck, but again, insurance.
Right now my diet is primarily rice, zucchini, and canned tuna, no spices, no fat, nothing that makes it even remotely palatable. Adding fiber makes it worse. I used to be such a foodie, and this is hell.
I haven't had one in forever because they're fried in soy oil and it aggravates my IBS. I had to quit working at Wendy's because the amount of fry oil I ingested just from working the fryers made my guts stop working right.
All bailout money is earmarked for the corporations. We need to save the banks and the auto industry! Again!! /s
And now JD Vance’s Acretrader can come buy up all the land for cheap and sell it to foreign interests!
Americans are learning the hard way that elections have consequences, and I’m loving it. Sadly, most still won’t learn. I said it before and I’ll continue to say it that Trump, Elon and their lackies are anarchists. They are destroying the government because they hate government (because it gets in their way) and they’re not going to put any of it back. He’ll be gone and we’ll have some broken, ghetto, incompetent government that can’t put the pieces back together and it’s what we’ll be stuck with for generations to come while other countries progress.
Yea, elon (and presumably many other super rich) want(s) cyberpunk ultra capitalism
no rules, just money…
Trump is just a corrupt puppet making it possible somehow
You think? I tend to doubt it. Seeing as these are the same lessons since Reagan and they've only gotten more popular. They don't know why they hate government. That's the real lesson they won't learn.
It's the lesson the rest of the world will need to learn super, super quickly, too. It's about media. And therein is the clue as to why no one will learn it without a big effort.
Aren't farmers who are among the most conservative voters worldwide?
Hard to say. Currently it seems so, but historically, even in the US, famers are often at the forefront of socialist sentiments. Even if they look different from what one expects.
I wonder what their pitch to the "soy boys" will be.
And this on X? Man people ARE waking up… a handful of years or two too late but still.
You know how much specialized farming equipment costs? That's like you owning a plumbing business and the government then screwing over your business somehow and someone going, well, you can always just start a electrician business. Like, sure you have some basic tools that might crossover, but it's an entirely different field that you know nothing about. There's significant risk as you know very little about that new crop, you may not have connections for distribution, you might not be scaled correctly to handle the nutrient or water needs. It requires extensive planning and if you fuck up one thing in that crop (i.e. you now have a weird blight or mildew or destructive animal you never planned for), you could be properly fucked.
In that case it might have been smart to listen to the person they were going to vote for and to believe what he was promising to do.
But voting for Mr "I'm gonna kill farming in the USA" and then complaining that he killed farming in the USA is kinda weak.
You can't seriously believe they knew anything about what he was going to do. Despite it being published and mocked and criticized and the topic of conversation for months.
Yeah, who could have known that he seriously meant what he was saying for years.
Specialization is a specific kind of business risk that these farms accepted years ago.
You can lower your production cost, but at the risk of having all of your eggs in one basket. Crop diversification requires more equipment, more expertise, and potentially lower yields, but it reduces exposure to problems facing a single crop.
These farmers took that risk knowing that last time this happed Trump bailed them out. They had every reason to think it would happen again.
The risk of hyperspecialization. Of course it's devastating, if your entire farm is tailored to that one crop.
Correction, Americans are still selling Soy to China. Just not the USA.
You've heard of government cheese? Wait until you hear about government rotten tofu
Mmmmm government seitan.
Store seed grow your own food if your in a city idk bro
Trump killed America, with massive help from American citizens and criminals.
What about food deserts in the USA? 🏜️
They tried exporting those, demand has been markedly lower. I think America might be stuck with em
I was actually thinking planting some vegetables and selling them to people who live in a food desert. But it’s questionable anyone would eat them unless deep fried I assume
You could start by giving some away. You'll get people's attention, get them used to cooking more. Then you could also put out a request for donations or volunteer farmers who'd maybe get first pick of the crop. Good way to make friends and build community. Sooner or later maybe you can start a produce stand and turn a profit, and maybe before long you've got enough people involved to start a regular farmer's market. That kind of local resilience would do a lot of good.
Reading this from a non US perspective is wild. Do you guys really not cook anything?
I cook pretty much every single meal for my family from scratch, even breads. I've worked as a chef though, and I know what I'm doing. I'm not in the states anymore, but I know that many people who live in food deserts don't have affordable access to fresh produce or basic staples. What I said above was tailored to people in that situation.
If only people could have seen this coming, especially the farmers who dealt with the same shit last time they elected Trump.
Sucks to suck.
If only they knew it was their own votes that bent them over the barrel.
Common clay and all that. Morons.
I think ‘morons’, while technically accurate is missing the nuance that conservative media deserts are where these voters live. They’re not on Lemmy, they’re not even on reddit. They’re on facebook and they watch Fox News. Their local paper is written by and for others who watch Fox News. That’s “the world” afatk.
The Left has zero plan to combat this, and even less money and interest in doing so.
where are these soy farms
America
Fuck em'!
Does it actually matter though? If you export more than you eat, no one is going to starve. At least they wouldn't in a sensible country.
But the purpose of modern American agriculture isn't to feed people, its to profit landlords.
If landlords can't profit, they won't produce a surplus. And without a surplus, our economy contracts, forcing more workers into unemployment. Without employment, they can't afford food, utilities, or rent. And that leads to malnutrition, poverty, and eventually death.
Ireland would like a word
There wasn't a sensible country in charge of it
How many potatoes does it take to kill an Irishman?