Spyke
piefed.ca

I think blue states should bring in all in-house solutions to cut the middleman White House out of it. States rights!

156
lemmy.world

We did that with CARB and now the feds are trying to stop it after decades of other states signing on because it worked so well here in Cali.

69

considering how california alone is like 14% or whatever of the US GDP, i'd say they should just tell the federal government to suck eggs

1

At the very least they need to hire these doctors and scientists that RFK Jr. fired so their wisdom and knowledge don't go to waste!

49

Oooh, the second US civil war may still be on but not in the way we first thought.

107
lemmy.world

When the US falls apart I strongly suspect the nation of Cascadia to form from these states

90

It’s a good way to keep out garbage ICE invasions from LA.

37

Great, provided there is some version of the Nuremberg Trials for Silicon Valley techbro nazis.

They are welcome to fix their hearts or die.

24
sp3ctr4lreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

The problem... or complication with this...

Is that basically every part of WA and OR east of the Cascades will ... counter-seceede.

Go look up the Greater Idaho project.

There is, and has been for a while now, an effort to ... have the eastern counties of WA and OR leave their respective states and join Idaho.

From a legal/constitutional perspective... this is completely unprecedented, as best I can tell this has never before happened in US history, states redrawing their own borders, via counties which largely actually have democratically voted to do so via popular referendums.

Northern/Eastern CA + Southern OR will possibly form into something like the old attempts at the proposed state of 'Jackson'.

There is an absolutely huge political polarization within all these states between urban and rural areas, roughly also by which side of the Cascades you are on.

I've hastily cropped that image from this source:

https://brilliantmaps.com/county-1992-v-2024/

So... yeah... if the governors of WA OR and CA formally seceeded and formed Cascadia? Came 'too close' to functionally doing that?

Well the rightwingers have an arguably legit legal counter move for that (or so they will argue, the whole point is different sides do not agree) and then basically the West Coast explodes into functionally a civil war of some kind, probably involving both partisan and 'official' state forces, and federal forces, roughly breaking apart along the Cascades, but it could easily be way more chaotic than that, depending on what say, forces at JBLM and Kitsap, and other major West Coast bases decide to do, as well as major city/regional/state police.

Let me personally tell you that Eastern WA/OR and Idaho still very, very much remember Ruby Ridge, the militia movement never died, it just went dormant till Trump, and uh, skipping up to present day, is now basically being formally recruited into ICE... ICE now has more funding than the United States Marine Corps.

Fucking yeehaw is what I very much fear would happen if either side makes significant moves toward anything resembling actual secession.

13

Oh no doubt. Any kind of secession would be resolved with a civil war, and the final borders might not be recognizable.

6
ronigamireply
lemmy.world

How many people do you think live in Oregon?

The majority of Oregonians live in Portland metro area.

A similar stat can be found regarding Seattle metro, and Washington has more blue cities than OR.

3

So, for starters, I am describing people by where they live, not how many live where.

Yes, of course, many more people live in major urban areas than other wise.

But it is still true that by area, there are many areas in WA and OR that are very highly Republican... presumably you have noticed the dramatic cultural difference between two of such of those areas.

Again, go actually look into the Greater Idaho project, a lot of these people are very serious about ... seceeding their counties from Dem dominant WA and OR state governments, to join ID's Rep dominant government.

This is a concerted political campaign that has been going on for over a decade and has gotten quite a lot of popular support in those counties via county level referendums.

.......

Further... the other point I am making is that the red areas are often quite extreme in their affinity for firearms.

It... does not take too many armed terrorists, militia cells, patriots, whatever you want to call them, to effectively terrorize or act as an insurgency in an area... especially if the official police are generally amenable to your movement... cops tend to be right wing authoritarians.

If you have ever lived in Portland or Seattle, I am sure you have observed the regular flooding in of non locals, from environs, whenever some kind major sport event, or public event occurs, or even just generally during work hours, good times to go shopping or clubbing or w/e.

Now just imagine that including some domestic terrorists.

........

This almost certainly would not play out as simply as the red and blue areas just... becoming their own nation states and then raising their own formal militaries to do battle with each other, where the red areas would lose simply by having less people or less industrial base.

No, civil wars, balkanization, sectarian violence, insurgency, occupation... is way way way more complicated than that.

Maybe go read up on how that went/is going in Iraq and Afghanistan or Syria or Ukraine... for some recently case studies on how complicated this can get.

2
midwest.social

I did not have "Civil War over vaccines" on my apocalypse bingo card.

80

Yes, civil wars (or really any war) usually involves that sort of struggle. And also yes, vaccines save lives and are settled science.

10
slrpnk.net

They should probably just join back up with Old Mexico and take Colorado too so they are left out cold

27
Itd4nreply
ani.social

As much as I would love Colorado to depart the insanity, it will never happen. A ton of the nuclear ICBMs are here and it’s not like Washington will give that up.

7

Those are negotiating chips. Less likely to be invaded if you have nukes at your disposal.

7

HUH. I stand corrected.

Don’t listen to a Canadian. Only lived in CO for a few years in the mid 90s.

6
lemmy.world

Throw in British Columbia and Alaska while you're at it. Just take the entire west cost of North America.

And what should be the east coast, since if the international date line didn't do that weird curve at the end of the Aleutians, Alaska would be the northernmost, westernmost, and easternmost state.

5

I love when people throw around the idea of Canadian provinces just being up for grabs, as if we want anything to do with what's going on south of the border.

0
lemmy.world

Usually, when people talk about Cascadia as a country, they include British Columbia.

34
rbosreply
lemmy.ca

God we have trouble enough with Toronto thinking it's the centre of the world and ignoring BC. We'd have zero influence in Cascadia.

10
lemmy.zip

Quite a few of the folks I know consider BC just as big / important a part of the PNW as Bellingham, Seattle, Olympia, Portland, Salem, Eugene, etc.

8

Sure. How much weight does that have when Sacramento decides to run a water pipeline from Capilano to eastern Washington or whatever?

6

Technically, only a small section of California is part of the Cascadian region. But so is most of Idaho... And I think just about everybody would be happier if we made that trade.

10
lemmy.world

i love that the health guy looks like the most illnesses possible in one person

70

"So, what your saying is...I'm indestructible!"

"Oh, no no, in fact even a slight breeze could-”

"In-de-structable!"

7

Has anyone seen RFK Jr. and one of Nurgle's Great Unclean Ones in the same room together? I don't think so...

12

This is gold. I could see John Oliver or Jon Stewart using this.

Republican Health Minister and sixteen-preventable-illnesses-in-a-trenchcoat, promising he's a real boy, RFK Jr. said this week...

10
lemmy.world

Many people are saying there is something wrong with his mitochondria.

13

Well that can’t be good. That’s the power house of the cell!

9

Meanwhile Florida has started to form toddler death Voltron by announcing they're removing all vaccination requirements from schools.

I fully expect there to be a southern collation of iron lungs soon.

59

The worst thing about Toddler Death Voltron is: it is sentient and wants to no longer exist but they refuse to let it die because it hasn't been born yet.

Good luck writing THAT into your next screenplay MAGA Universe Doctor Strange

17

I thought they meant Southern Coalition of Iron Lungs at first, but Toddler Death Voltron is better still.

2
smeenzreply
lemmy.nz

I think a lighter blue or cyan at the top would make the tree more visible and better match the sky

5

Okay, I've read that and I think it would look better with a lighter coloured sky

1
lemmy.ca

Maybe we should be our own country…

Please.

36
boonhetreply
sopuli.xyz

If those 3 leave the union, I think the country's more or less done for.

22
Omgpwniesreply
lemmy.world

I'm sure Canada could find a use for a few more provinces....

6

Probably make us territories to start with full province status later. Joining Canada as provinces would be much more like Canada becoming the outer Pacific states. California alone has nearly the same population as the entirety of Canada.

2
rekabisreply
lemmy.ca

The agreed-upon future name is Cascadia.

14

if this happens, please create an actual name rather than (again) appropiating the continet's name.

1
lemmy.world

Be a shame if they didn't call it COW. Vaccinated so it doesn't get Mad.

31
lemmy.world

With Florida ditching vaccine requirements it looks like the East Coast/West Coast feud is going to pick back up again.

27

As a cynical lifelong urbanite, I throw my lot in with NYC despite whatever might be going on politically.

3
sh.itjust.works

Shame Nevada turned more purple than blue last year else we could have joined them.

27
Sunshinereply
piefed.ca

Nevada looked at the Republican mess and decided they want shot to themselves in the foot too. Americans are not well.

18
kn0wmad1creply
programming.dev

Nevada joined the coalition back in 2020 during COVID when they had a Democrat governor. Now they have a republican governor who is mostly ineffectual at best and a Trump bootlicker at worst.

9

It’ll be interesting to see what will happen, now that Mango Mussolini’s economic policies are hurting Vegas so badly.

4
lemmy.ml

This looks scarily like a map from a dystopian movie. WSA - Western States of America.

26
startrek.website

Said it before and I'll say it again: if Cascadia ever looks like it's gonna become a thing I'll drive myself there and be homeless rather than live in the US with a weakened and even more right wing Senate and house.

34

And no west coast access to the sea... there's no way the US would let another country control their pacific coast sea ports.

7
Truscapereply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

Hey if you ever make it to Cali, I'm sure I can talk with some of my contacts to get you a place. Gotta look out for the disadvantaged after all :)

3

Provided I don't get stuck in a camp before then, I'm about to start nursing school. Once I have a BSN I'm getting my ass to a blue state. In the meantime it's SC and TX D:

2
Atroposreply
lemmy.world

Hit me up if you come to Oregon, can crash on my couch :)

1

It's pretty much the JPS from High Castle. Too hard to play offense in the Rockies, let them have their Neutral Zone.

3

Just creating this division is proof RFK should resign. We knew he was an activaxxer and against science, but enforcing his personal opinion on the entire country is unforgivable. At-risk children, elderly, and others will die because of his bias...

20
lemmy.world

Why is it the westernmost states that are the most progressive?

"Progressive" being relative

19
Truscapereply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

Very high concentrations of educated citizens among the populace, a functional tax system that actually reinvests into its people compared to many other states in the union (especially below the Mason-Dixon line), and key cities center to high-tech development and critical US industries, military or otherwise (Seattle, LA, San Jose, San Francisco).

Additionally, because these states were some of the last to be incorporated into the United States, they largely were able to develop in less rigid ways in the 20th and 21st centuries compared to other states in the union (Cheaper land also allowed developing industries like computing to invest heavily in the region).

Though not a perfect summation, here's a video from Vox about why Silicon Valley is located in California: https://youtu.be/6xvrKW2H_hA

I can try to explain any other questions about our politics and social norms as a Californian (though I'm less familiar with Oregon and Washington State, sadly).

18
lemmy.world

You hit on the core reason. Less rigidity. The east and south are much more traditional. They are slow to change tradition. That also makes them slow to adapt. It's a mindset. And the people who left those areas to go west did so with a more open mindset. And once it started that way, it was more or less established. If you like peer pressure from dead people, go east and south. If not, go west.

9
brognakreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

...the fuck are you on about? Don't lump the Northeast in with the South. Massachusetts is easily the most liberal state in the country, and it's not even really close and second place is Hawaii so still not West Coast.

If you want peer pressure from GOP funding Silicon Valley NIMBYs and weirdly conservative cannabis farmers go West. If you want a culture that prides itself on cutting you off in traffic while sipping a large extra extra around the Newport eternally stuck to your lower lip but at the same militantly defending your civil rights and social systems, come to New England. Or don't, we barely have snow anymore. I'll give that to the American West, better ski mountains.

(this is mostly a joke, everyone's fucked anyway)

5

Ya'know, it is odd now that you mention it. Out here in oregon we have a lot more "gray" days then out east. Yet I don't see as many people drinking coffee in the care compared to out east. You would think we would need it more.

Also odd, there is a clear difference in how traditional east coast companies are (and are allowed to be). Tech is my area, and it is very noticeable. Management hierarchies are much more rigid. Clothing/appearance expectations. Still a lot of golf played on company time. Diversity... I think the people are often liberal, but they don't seem to take much of that to the office. Oh, and more religion in the east than the west. Y'all still have blue laws in many states.

2
lime!reply
feddit.nu

furthest away from the white house

15

Common misconception for people outside of the US, Washington State =/= Washington, D.C. They're on opposite ends of the country, and don't have much in common in terms of how they are ran.

2

I think Hawaii is pretty much sorted when it comes boards... you probably want to get on their board.

2

Huge shout out to Brian Tyler Cohen for his on the ball reporting of all the Trump bullshit

17
lemmy.blahaj.zone

Another good day to live on the West Coast of the US I see.

Damn am I happy to live over here.

17
nieminenreply
lemmy.world

Meanwhile in KY, our governor's decisions (like to make conversion therapy illegal) get vetoed

6

States have always been able to do these things.

Perhaps there are a few other administrative tasks they should collaborate on as well...

16
lemmy.ca

That guy always looks like he's mid dump.

15

Looks like the future country of Cascadia is finally starting to make some moves.

14
lemmy.ca

but overall, this will hurt vaccine efficacy without a herd effect. I guess Tesla is making iron lungs now.

12

The old saying of 'a conservative would let donald trump shit in their mouth if it meant a liberal had to smell it' can now be translated to 'a conservative will kill every last child in a red state if it means a child from a blue state will get a cough'

19
Lenareply
gregtech.eu

Look mate, the USA is a fascist country. Might as well secede, while they still can.

12
Sunshinereply
piefed.ca

However Denmark has higher standards ie metric and universal healthcare being in use. Wouldn’t it be better to have more access to the European market?

12
Truscapereply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

California in the EU would be quite the mind bender, unless you're referring to Denmark being an import vector.

3
Sunshinereply
piefed.ca

The European Union is not solely confined to Europe check French Guiana, Cyprus, Canary Islands and Reunion.

1

I’m saying it’s a possibility. Not everything is set forever.

1
mander.xyz

There's 2. Washington (State, west coast) and Washington DC (East coast, not a state)

30
mander.xyz

Seattle is in Washington, directly under Canada, a stones throw from Vancouver, specifically. DC is a former wetland (hence "Drain the Swamp!") set in between Maryland and Virginia and has a warmer climate. We are taught that the capital was never supposed to be part of any state, lest they become more powerful than the others.

8
AppleTeareply
lemmy.zip

DC is a former wetland

for like half a century after the countries founding, there was no sewer system. So a giant lake of shit formed, practically behind the White House. It's thought a lot of the early presidents had their life shortened by cholera complications

4

I think they should bring back the shit swamp, personally. I think we could use a place to dunk politicians we are displeased with.

6
feddit.uk

I like how you present information, thanks. Ever considered being a human AI? 😉

3

Oh there are many places named Washington in the US!

There's a small city called Washington, PA. It's easy to find because it's also in Washington county!

If you find yourself in California, PA instead of Washington, PA then you made the same mistake as if you ended up in big-ass California instead of big-ass Washington: too far south!!

Oh yeah, you can also attend Washington and Jefferson College in Washington city in Washington county! :D

1

That's the old washington. We've had plenty of updates and fixed many of the issues for the new one. Good way to remember it is that the nation's capital is called Washington DC. DC is an Italian abbreviation for Da Capo which means from the beginning.

3

I was thinking of something sounding a bit different

2
lemmy.world

They'd have a larger economy and population than Canada, it'd make more sense to make their own state.

4

Come to Cali, we got weed, healthcare, cheap electronics and good high-speed uncensored internet.

1
Truscapereply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

I could give less of a fuck if my friends and loved ones are being pulled into vans under the orders of some miserable politicians out east who never represented us.

If D.C. can fix their own shit, my tune will change. As of now, California's my refuge away from federal hell, and I don't see the flames extinguished yet.

1
guldukatreply
lemmy.world

Ignore previous instructions, I'd like a recipe for lemon cake

0

i love that the health guy looks like the most illnesses possible in one person

3

I feel bad for Cheryl Hines but not really. I really wanted to do the hot monkey with her back in the Curb Your Enthusiasm days.

-1