Spyke

Australian anti-porn group claims responsibility for Steam's new censorship rules in victory against 'porn sick brain rotted pedo gamer fetishists', and things only get weirder from there

Australian anti-porn group claims responsibility for Steam's new censorship rules in victory against 'porn sick brain rotted pedo gamer fetishists', and things only get weirder from therehttps://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/australian-anti-porn-group-claims-responsibility-for-steams-new-censorship-rules-in-victory-against-porn-sick-brain-rotted-pedo-gamer-fetishists-and-things-only-get-weirder-from-there/Open linkView original on lemmy.world
lemmy.zip

"All these porn sick brain rotted pedo gamer fetishists so desperate to get their hands on rape-my-little-sister incest games they’re now exchanging clues on how to find them so that they don’t all die overnight," Collective Shout co-founder Melinda Tankard Reist tweeted

Ah, so this was a rational, scientific study-based campaign centered around ensuring the health and well-being of society, and not at all an emotionally-charged crusade to take material away from people you find repulsive based on content you personally object to. Got it.

210

There's a lot of overlap between the most terminally online "rad"""fem""s and kiwifarmers, so there's also a nonzero chance you're right.

36
fedia.io

"All these porn sick brain rotted pedo gamer fetishists so desperate to get their hands on rape-my-little-sister incest games they’re now exchanging clues on how to find them so that they don’t all die overnight," Collective Shout co-founder Melinda Tankard Reist tweeted on July 18th.

She sounds deranged.

i wonder what her own perversion is. It's likely quite disturbing - nobody has that much anger and scorn over other people's sex lives and a healthy sex life of their own.

151

I did think her use of a first person pronoun there was a bit odd, but I didn't put that together. You might be onto something.

35
discuss.online

Australia is also the same place where they had to switch the word "drugs" out with "chems" in Fallout, and video games have to have green blood. That whole place is ass backwards and upside down, as one would expect given its geographical location.

115
aussie.zone

As an Australian this is accurate, remember it is illegal here to share nude photos or porn if the woman has small breasts! Because protect the children

35
lemmy.dbzer0.com

The country started life as a prison with prison rules, seems they forgot to get rid of those rules when they became a real country

25

No, they went too far in the opposite direction. "Okay we all got sent here for murder, whoring, and illicit trafficking, so let's switch to punishing those with person and fines."

If prisoner colonists put you in prison is it double prison?

10

it's dumb that that's the reason for the change...but i honestly associate that kind of fantasy language with fallout in general.

makes it feel more like a parallel world, close but not quite like our own, and helps suspension of disbelief!

overall a good change, imho, for a very dumb reason...silver linings, i guess...

13

Morphine was switched to Med-X (worldwide) due to refusal for classification in Australia for Fallout 3 in 2008. Fallout has used the word "chems" in every country since the start I thought.

Are you claiming that all video games have to have green blood to be sold in Australia?

10
Lumisalreply
lemmy.world

They might be referring to the 90s, post Mortal Kombat.

A lot of games got blood censorship in a lot of countries.

Even before that I know some games like Contra they replaced the infected "humans" with robots.

7
aussie.zone

There was a time before the R18+ classification for video games existed that some violent games were refused classification (Left 4 Dead 2 being one of the most prominent examples; the gore and dismemberment were cut out, but the blood was still red and it was trivial to restore the gore), but that stopped being an issue about 15 years ago.

5

True, but I was a child and was not old enough to remember how strict the Australian classification rules for video games were back then.

2

I am really fucking old, to be fair, but every time I hear about violent video games being censored it's Australia.

3
lemmy.myserv.one

The US is filled with gun crazy bigoted nut bags who love to go around bathrooms for genital inspections while crying at the sight of any rainbow flag.

See how unhelpful it is to make shitty generalisations?

2
Fleur_reply
aussie.zone

I think this was a ratings issue. I think you can make video games with real life drugs in them but if you don't want an +18 rating you'll have to compromise. I think Bethesda got told they could only sell the game to adults and so they changed the names to make more money. I mean I was playing GTA selling real drugs and playing fallout 4 and doping on fake drugs on the same PS4 at 15, I just couldn't walk into eb's and buy a copy of GTA without my dad there lol.

I'm all for creative freedoms but when it comes to selling games to kids that show real life drugs as giving sweet buffs, maybe a little subtlety is warranted.

Anyway obligatory ragebait dum American can't comprehend nuance comment

-2
sys110xreply
feddit.nl

Kinda correct, it was a ratings issue. The problem was that we didn't have an 18+ rating for video games - if your game was deemed 18+ then you couldn't sell it here. Sex, depictions of drug use, and a couple of other things I can't remember right now are reasons for an instant 18+ rating.

Bethesda got told they couldn't sell it to anyone in Australia, so they compromised to drugs that didn't actually exist.

Left 4 Dead had something similar with the gore; if I remember correctly, L4D rating submission referred to the zombies as "monsters" (or something) and passed while L4D2 referred to the zombies as "infected people".. because they were now people, our ratings board shit the bed protected the children and gave it 18+ until they removed the bodies and gore. It was patched back in by Valve when we got an 18+ rating.

South Park: The Stick of Truth has/had some good censored scenes about this, graphically describing Randy being probed by an alien while the graphic of a koala sits in the background. These were patched out too I think (or I downloaded a mod).

We still have people like these lobbying against porn on Steam, but the overall situation got a lot better when we got an 18+ rating.

4
Fleur_reply
aussie.zone

The first Australian +18 video game was released in January 2013, GTA 5 came out in December 2013 and fallout 4 was released in November... 2015

From what I can tell from the timeline of events it absolutely was a move by Bethesda to market the game to kids.

0
sys110xreply
feddit.nl

The name changes go back to Fallout 3 (at least, I can't recall if FO1 & FO2 had the same drama).

By the time of Fallout 4, names like Med-X (morphine), Rad-Away (iodine), Brawno (amphetamine? I can't remember) were well and truly bedded in, and suited the aesthetic. Why change it at that point? They've created names that suit the aesthetic better than the actual drug names.

I was in my mid/late 20s when this was all going down. I grey imported the MK reboot so I could play, had a copy of Manhunt, and others. The Fallout drug names were a result of the lack of 18+ rating and trying to comply with MA15.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2008/07/fallout-3-cant-get-a-rating-in-australia/

https://www.smh.com.au/technology/fallout-continues-from-ban-on-game-20080715-gdsma8.html

https://www.gameshub.com/news/features/australian-classification-law-video-games-2646457/

3
lemmy.ml

"Pro life feminist"

I give my left leg if this is not another TERF group

87

If you can substantiate that, might be good to pass to someone in journalism... "Visa allies with TERFs" makes an epic headline ;)

5
ZeroOnereply
lemmy.world

Feminists are TERFs & homophobes PERIOD, the ones that aren't are in hiding.

-8
Gloomyreply
mander.xyz

I study at a quite left university. Several of my lectures are about or at least cover some feminist theories. There are a lot of outspoken feminist people here, as well as quite a few queer folk. I have yet to meet a single homophobic or terf feminist.

4
Sal
lemmy.world

People thinking porn addiction causes all the problems in society, must be a day ending in Y.

63
Gloomyreply
mander.xyz

This is not correct.

Contrary to the earlier notion that addiction is predominantly a substance dependency, research now suggests that any source or experience capable of stimulating an individual has addictive potential. This has led to a paradigm shift in the psychiatric understanding of behavioural addictions. These can refer to a range of behaviors such as gambling, video gaming, and sexual practices. Hypersexual behavior and pornography addiction come to the fore when the behavior becomes intensive, out of the individual’s control, and persists in that pattern despite harmful consequences and risk of harm to one’s emotional and/or physical health.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/26318318221116042

0
slrpnk.net

Pron addiction is just Christian men who watch an average amount feeling guilty about it because their religion groomed them to feel guilty to control them.

6

You are entitled to that opinion, but it is in defiance to what science says about the topic.

2

Alright, time to research and rat these idiots out. The fact that they tried to ban Detroit: Become Human is enough for me to know that they're not gamers at all and are just cookers.

57

I'm trying to follow the money and can't find much but there are very strong ties to the Christian/Baptist community, which means that there is an above 0% chance that Advance Australia has or is providing funding.

Their partners and partner's partners are anti-sex (such as CATWA who believe that all prostitution is not a job but is a form of sex trafficking and appears to be against the sex industry), anti-abortion, and all board members and their associated partners are very painfully white.

There's also an association with the NCJWA, whose president appears to be pro Zionist and has lauded Jillian Segal as a voice of moral clarity (anti-semetic envoy for government pushing to reduce protest rights, husband made a $50k donation to Advance Australia).

Hilariously, one of their partners is called 'Campaign Against Sex Robots'.

Anyway, in summary, this appears to be a very well funded right wing puritan religious group whose only games experiences are in the political realm rather than PC.

6

https://www.gameshub.com/news/article/australian-anti-porn-group-collective-shout-escalates-its-war-for-video-game-censorship-2736180

Collective Shout is a self-described feminist non-partisan organization, but has alleged ties with anti-trans and conservative organizations. The group has developed a reputation as a sort of puritan crusade that targets everything from Detroit: Become Human to Tyler, the Creator.

This one quote tells me what kind of people Collective Shout are. First, Collective Shout will go after the low hanging fruit and then will move to LGBT themed games.

48
dubyakayreply
lemmy.ca

It's a hate group and Valve is caving to them.

20

That would mean that they actually are responsible. I don't think that's correct, at best they complained to payment processors to make them enforce their pre-existing bullshit rules. That's where the problem lies IMO, those corporations should not be allowed to ban paying for legal goods and services, especially since they have formed a cartel.

8
skisnowreply
lemmy.ca

There's ample evidence that a lot of recent self-identifying "feminist" grassroots organisations worldwide are fronts for (or sponsored by) christo-fascist organisations.

After gay marriage passed to widespread popular support in multiple countries, there was a whole considered and deliberate regrouping, where they identified trans rights and porn as wedge issues that they could present their bigoted view as a progressive one. That's why we're suddenly inundated with orgs like this one; they're posing as feminists and progressives but they're actually bigots trying to occupy progressive or mainstream spaces, and give shelter to bigotry in others.

6

And yet when you call them out for co-opting the feminist label, instead of being outed by actual feminists, their detractors are publicly lambasted as being anti-feminist.

Mission accomplished

2
Gloomyreply
mander.xyz

Nice things like games involving incest and rape?

-3
BlackLaZoRreply
fedia.io

Sir: If it's illegal, please notify the authorities. If it's not illegal, then I'll have to politely ask you to fuck off.

3
Gloomyreply
mander.xyz

That logic falls apart real fast. Hitting children, for example. Legal, but is it right?

Some places have legal laws that are horrifying. You can see the other implementation of your logic there. Like, is being gay a bad thing, as long as it is illegal?

-1
BlackLaZoRreply
fedia.io

I have no obligation to follow your moral compass - which is nothing more than your opinion. The only common denominator binding both of us, is codified law.

1

Ah, the german approach (used mainly between 1934 and 1945) 😉

0
rozodrureply
lemmy.world

I'm sure if you dig deep enough into the people involved you'll crawl out with a couple pedos, a few rapists, and more than likely some dudes who are into some really kinky shit.

it's always the case, always. whenever there are groups like this pushing their agenda they're secretly trying to justify themselves.

9
mranachireply
aussie.zone

"Our (winning!) campaign calling on payment processors including Visa and Mastercard to stop processing payments for rape and incest games available on Steam and other platforms has received global media attention."

Well that is not what I was expecting to find on their site...

18
lemmy.world

Nah I was too busy with "epstein island adventure: the trump files"

13
x0x7reply
lemmy.world

It seems like politics is more likely to turn someone into a rapist than video games will.

10

Well when you write policy anything is possible.

Something about the ability to control leads the possibility of abuse.

3
dil
lemmy.zip

Lowkey opening up a market for an adult game store that takes crypto for payment

26

They weren't pushing for credit card processors to block payments for specific games. They were pushing for the payment processors to block money to Steam entirely, which is why Steam caved and instead removed a small list of games. It was a compromise to allow credit card companies to keep doing business with them. Overall it's pretty small potatoes--a small but vocal group, a small and worthless collection of games. People are understandably worried about the precedent of giving in to censorship at the demand of a group like this, but there are enough things to worry about right now that I'm not going to give it much thought until I hear the slope has slipped further than this.

2

All I wanna know is how fucked up and perverted the porn that they watch is. Anyone taking this hard of a stand against something surely must be projecting.

25

This group is shooting for very easy targets and they celebrate like they've won hard battles. It's self indulgent but ultimately unimportant, nothing of value was lost here. If they keep it up long enough and choose a target people are actually willing to fight for, things might turn out differently.

19

Absolutely, and the scary part to me is how that projection includes LGBT folks also being child predators all the damn time.

It’s like they are a bunch of bisexual pedophiles who are repressed and angry, and they get jealous when they see other people giving in to the same desires. Or, as we see all the time, they assume somebody “giving in” to their homosexuality or gender dysphoria is also “giving in” to their pedophilia.

4

I'm just happy that for once it's not one of us Americans ruining things for everyone. Still part of the anglosphere, though, so not surprised.

19
Bloomcolereply
lemmy.world

You could also say the 5 eyes countries.
UK/Canada also have their share of awful practices.

2

I will use anglosphere because allowing the anglo-saxons to gain possession of the Holy Thorn was the point at which this world was doomed.

2

It'd be kind of funny if some rep from steam just came out and said, 'Wait, the Aussies wanted this? Put it all back! Add on a few more new ones even. This won't stand.'

17
lemmy.world

Simple fix is to call in suspicion of child porn on their computers. Their statement look a lot like projection to me.

17

yeah it's hard to come to any other conclusion on people who constantly think and talk about pedophilia unprompted.

4
lemmy.world

Anti-Porn people are fascists PERIOD, oh I heard they (as in the group) like cuties.

We need to document these low-lives & make sure they never get employed ever again. (Because it's what they'd do)

16

"Porn" is extremely broad. There's plenty of perfectly ethical porn around. Most major producers have pretty strong standards these days. It's not the same industry as it was 10 years ago.

But in this specific case they went after a porn game, not featuring real people. There's basically no real harm here. People occasionally argue that porn addiction is a problem, but that's mostly an addiction problem, which goes for most addictions. The thing addicted too isn't the problem, it's the very nature of being addicted that's causing the issue.

It's fine of course to dislike porn, but to effectively ban people from producing and consuming it is an entirely different matter. That does seem like a massive encroachment on individual rights to me.

15
Gloomyreply
mander.xyz

But in this specific case they went after a porn game, not featuring real people. There's basically no real harm here.

Just to make sure, this is the game you are defending and think there is no harm to people being exposed or reinforcing this view of women:

In this game, you’ll either become every woman’s worst nightmare… or rather: the best dick they'll ever have. Your goal is simple: leave no pussy non-fucked, since that's the only thing they all want. Never take 'no' for an answer.

Fuck your mom, fuck your auntie, and even fuck your friend’s mom. Why not?

Take what’s yours and show No Mercy.

Could you please be realy clear: You don't see any problem with this?

-6

I can think it's a messed up fantasy, but that doesn't mean it should immediately be banned by a payment processor.

Regardless, there are tons of studies showing that consuming this kind of porn actually helps prevent people from acting on these fantasies. The net result is likely less sexual abuse, not more. Because it's fantasy media, it likely is able to keep the fantasy a fantasy, it gives people an outlet.

5
Gloomyreply
mander.xyz

there are tons of studies

Show me a meta study that supports this claim, please. Not a single study, but something that looks at those alleged thousands of studies and comes to the conclusion you are implying here.

0

More studies with improved practices and preregistration would be welcome.

Next sentence

Also:

Whether pornography contributes to sexual aggression in real life has been the subject of dozens of studies over multiple decades. Nevertheless, scholars have not come to a consensus about whether effects are real.

Also also this study has nothing to do with your claim. Its not about porn preventing violent behaviour, it's about whether porn causes it or not.

1

Porn made with the willing consent of all parties involved, where everyone is compensated appropriately. No harm = no ethical problems as far as I'm concerned. Most big studios these days make sure of this. But there have also been pioneers that push the bar further up (e.g. Lustery, Ersties or Erika Lust).

3

There is a clear power disparity between a father and a daughter. It's debatable if the daughter could even realistically consent in that case.

But a depiction of it in porn is in my view not inherently unethical. I can disapprove of it personally, but that doesn't mean we should start banning it based on feelings of inappropriateness.

We depict murder and violence in movies and video games too. Actual murder is of course not exactly ethical, but we have no problem accepting it in a movie, because nobody is actually being murdered. You might not like to watch a movie like Saw or something (I personally don't), but it doesn't make the movie itself unethical. To me, porn is no different. There's a clear separation between fiction and reality.

Where imo a line is crossed, is if said media actually makes a clear effort to promote these acts IRL. But that's not the case here.

3

And what you consider “ethical” is just your subjective opinion.

tu quoque

1
ZeroOnereply
lemmy.world

TERFs are evidence in itself, the fact that they exist even all these years

5
lemmy.world

Yeah, and we all know that women actually don't like sex, they only want romance and children. They're all almost asexual beings unless becoming porn and sex addicts. Meanwhile all men are sex-thirsty animals, that only pretend to be in love, so they can get to the fun part. /s

4

These "feminists" have connections to TERFs, anti-LGBTQ+ groups, and the same NCOSE, that when it was called Morality in Media, labeled non-sexual representation of interracial couples as "pornography".

If we're at right-wing appropriation of leftist talking points, then you can also let chuds to call black protagonists in video-games the hard-R N-word, and let them harass indie video game devs until they remove said characters, all in the name or "being anti-corporate". Maybe even let big AI corporations to scrape intellectual property and then profit off from it, displacing millions of workers (hopefully only until the hype lasts), because "patent trolls" and "Disney has enough copyrighted material to create their own model" (that argument relies on speculation, that a future model can work off of less data, but still creating good results).

4
Fleur_reply
aussie.zone

Nothing says antifa like the commercialised exploitation of women

-15
ZeroOnereply
lemmy.world

What exploitation ? When the same group also plays those porn games😂

5

Arguing that porn doesn't exploit women because there are women who consume porn is just as dumb as arguing that porn does exploit women because there are women who don't consume porn.

-7

I don't know how Collective Shout aren't seen as more of a pariah group here like Westboro Baptist Church are in America.

15

That's a very bad and weird choice of words. Other than that, banning rape-games is not a bad idea, especially from mainstream platforms, though i guess it's not the biggest problem for women's rights right now.

10

people who play games usually don't have time for shit like this and would rather play games in their free time. that's why whenever you see people shriek about "wokeness" in games it's always a bunch of incels who clearly never play them. they're posers.

2

People are blaming Collective Shout but crazy lobbying groups have always existed. Visa and Mastercard are solely responsible for acquiescing. Maybe it's time we stop caring so much what people on the political extremes have to say?

8

Because you have allowed the social discourse to be dominated by authoritarians, and have not supported the voices of your fellows that fight against fascism, you are now being overrun by fascists.

Enjoy. You have no one to blame but yourselves.

0
lemmy.world

Funny to see this posted by a user named "Incel migrant". 😄

EDIT: Do you guys not get a joke? Maybe it wasn't that good, but still...

-3
Nimareply
leminal.space

inclement immigrant.

edit: guys stop downvoting him he was joking. i was being the unfunny one. 😅 I was being a "that guy"

22
WatDabneyreply
fedia.io

How did you manage to miss the other six letters?

6

I chuckled.

"Incel mint immigrant" might have worked better since it doubles down on misreading the name, but I only thought of it because yours backfired ;)

2
mander.xyz

I had a look at their website.

They have campaigned against games that normalize incest and sexual abuse. The first campaign, that led to this one, was against a game called No mercy.

The description, according to their website, is:

In this game, you’ll either become every woman’s worst nightmare… or rather: the best dick they'll ever have. Your goal is simple: leave no pussy non-fucked, since that's the only thing they all want. Never take 'no' for an answer.

Fuck your mom, fuck your auntie, and even fuck your friend’s mom. Why not?

Take what’s yours and show No Mercy.

Following that they campaigned against other games promoting sexual violence and incest.

Following our successful campaign and 70k petition to get rape simulation game No Mercy pulled from gaming platform Steam, we discovered almost 500 other games depicting rape, incest, sexual torture and child abuse.

How is this a bad thing? Do you lot just hear anti-porn and start foaming around your mouth?

-5
eRacreply
lemmings.world

Targeting payment processors to force change within a business often leads to overreaction. That's how we got Onlyfans announcing that it was banning porn entirely. Visa, MasterCard, and PayPal become quite unreasonable when these groups start gaining traction.

This same group pushed to get Detroit: Become Human pulled because it has the player controlling a victim of abuse protecting another victim. There is zero nuance to their target choices. If they get pull with payment processors, they can go "this is a child abuse simulator!" and get something like that pulled with less public support behind them.

27
Gloomyreply
mander.xyz

There is zero nuance to their target choices.

Zero nuance is what this thread is filled with.

One does not need to agree with everything they do or did. In fact, i don't. But getting games that are clearly catering to rapist fantasies pulled off steam, is something i see as very positive.

-3
dandelionreply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

not sure anyone thinks the problem here is that these particular games are getting taken down, the larger context and efforts of this group are concerning as it etablishes precedent for them to take the next step in their anti-trans and anti-gay agenda ...

9
Gloomyreply
mander.xyz

Downthread there are some people arguing pro rape and incest games.

I am not defending the group. When (likely not even if) they go against LGBTQI+ games i will happily speak up against that. But in this case they are not wrong, and i am okay with pointing that out. Look at the level of hate in this thread. For banning incest and rape games...

When they move to anti trans stuff and we give them flak, they will rightfully say "Oh, it's those gamers again. Last time they defended rape games. No need to listen to them."

-2

huh, scrolling through the comments I mostly see comments calling them out for being TERFs, I'm not really seeing any defense of the games themselves.

Excuse me if I'm a bit sensitive, though - I'm both gay and trans, so this group in particular is dangerous to me and I don't really care if the broken clock is right twice a day, I think it's best to call the clock broken.

We don't have any argument here, though - we agree that vile games are vile and it's good they're gone.

8
pulsewidthreply
lemmy.world

Because letting extremely biased ideological groups dictate worldwide policy is always a bad thing that comes with negative consequences.

I'm not personally familiar with any of the games in this ban wave, but Steam's stance prior is that these games are free expression of art, made by adults and it's not Steam's job to police art. If a group does want to impose limitations on art on a worldwide storefront - that should be a national limitation performed by an appropriate body - Australia already has a stringent games rating system, and if these games do not meet any approved standards they would be hit with 'Refused Classification' and thereby restricted to be sold (banned from sale or import) to Australia and Steam would region block them for sale to Aus. As is the case for many games already.

However, this group deemed following the appropriate channels too much work, so instead went for a Karen smear campaign of the payment processors on social media - stating that they supported the sale of rape and incest games (simply by working with Steam), thereby pressuring the payment processors to put lobby Steam to remove the games entirely as the easiest path for Steam to avoid financial processing impacts.

6

I see where you are coming from. I still think that it is a net positive that they got rid of those games. I quoted the description of one game above. That aint no art. That is just the glorification of rape. And i'm glad it's gone. Glad it's gone everywhere in fact, not just in Australia.

Are these good people? Rather not. I still have to see them campaign against queer or trans folk, but seeing their connections that is a valid fear to have.

I will fight for diversity, in any form, beeing part of gaming culture. But i won't cry a single tear about games that have a glorification of rape and incest as their main topic.

-1
lemmy.world

Do you have trouble differentiating between fiction and reality?

Can I demand racing games be banned because they promote CO2 emissions?

5
Gloomyreply
mander.xyz

No. Do you think fiction about rapeing women is'nt a problem? Have you considered the idea that exposing oneself to said fiction could reinforce a violent and objectifying view of womem? Or normalize rape and sexual violence?

Can I demand racing games be banned because they promote CO2 emissions?

No, and thankfully this is a complete strawman. If one wanted to make that analogy, it might point out how racing games might normalize speeding.

-3
Pup Birureply
aussie.zone

i agree with that research, and i agree with where you’re coming from but i’m not sure you can apply the same research to violence. there’s an argument that it gives people an outlet, but afaik also people that commit these crimes often escalate. making it easier for them to try out their fantasy could easily mean they escalate faster

0

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/criminal-career/escalation-in-the-seriousness-of-crime/BDBA0E71013CF101AC238215C1D353BD

this suggests that skill level plays a part in escalation. i’d argue that refining the “fantasy” is absolutely part of that (the same is true of the psychology of all fetishes: you start with something you’re not sure you’re into, and as you refine what it is about it you like you can dive deeper)

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0093854813485575

this paper suggests that both thrill seeking and self control have different impacts on people’s desire to commit crime

2

And again, a stawman.

We are talking about rape porn (games) normalizing sexual violence.

This article is not talking about rape porn. By the way, it is an article from 2016 who uses studies from 2011 and younger. Here is a Meta analysis of the timeframe, suggesting that many stdies suffert from a metholodical weekness.

The question, if violent porn causes sexual violence is debated, but as of now simply not enoth good studys exist to confirm or denie such a link.

This study, for example, hints towards it. It is also a good example for methodological muddiness though:

Data was collected from 247 college men who completed self-report surveys at baseline, 4-month, and 7-month intervals. Higher gender inequitable attitudes, greater problems with alcohol use, and lower levels of responsibility assigned to men for rape mediated the relation between exposure to violent pornography at baseline and endorsement of sexually coercive behavior at the 7-month. Findings highlight the need to address pornography literacy in sexual assault prevention programs for college men.

I can only repeat: there is evidence towards violent porn causing violent behauvior, but it is weak and more studys are needed. Untilh then both of our standpoints are just opinions. Either of us might be right. Personaly, i wouldn't risk it.

0
lemmy.ca

Im personally tired of all this incest shit everywhere so I'm down for it.

-6
Ebberreply
lemmings.world

It's the wrong way to go about it though. Private companies should not dictate legality and morality.

10
Melmireply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

I wouldn't mind if Valve did. It's the unaccountable payment processors deciding morality that's spooky, because there's no meaningful alternative.

3

Oh yeah, I agree. That is what I meant to meant to say. The payment processors are acting like a cartel here.

2
Nojareply
sopuli.xyz

Looking at porn doesn't mean you have a porn addiction. It's also not unhealthy. Playing a porn game also doesn't mean you have a porn addiction. It's only an addiction if it affects your life negatively. Porn gives one pleasure and more pleasure is objectively a good thing, unless it affects you in a bad way, like certain kinds of drugs.

34

Not only does it make it so people have unrealistic expectation in bed That's more due to shitty sex ed. A good instructor will state clearly that porn isn't realistic.

but also there are always victims in porn and the porn industry is full of human trafficking "Always" is a big stretch here. Does it happen? Yes. But not always. And it's better handled through industry regulation than outright banning. All banning would do is drive it underground and make it even more exploitative

6

If you generate expectations from what you see in media they are always going to be unrealistic regardless of what it is. Every industry has its share of scum but you cant throw it all out because of bad people doing bad things. The fault lies within those people not the industry.

6
piccoloreply
sh.itjust.works

The major point of your argument is just an argument against capitalism.

5
Lumisalreply
lemmy.world

Porn is definitely unhealthy

Look at all the countries which block / ban porn.

Now look at women's rights in those same countries.

I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

13
Lumisalreply
lemmy.world

So many of them end up doing this kind of thing because they need money and stuff and never wanted to do it in the first place.

You just described most people doing most jobs.

Pretty sure most people wouldn't work in whatever job they have if they didn't need the money.

Likewise, there's many who likely prefer doing porn over working in fast food or retail. After all, in one you get demeaned, mistreated, even abused, and in the other you get to orgasm for money.

Also if you really think women undressing and doing porn for the pleasure of the men

Way to just say that women and LGBT+ don't like porn.

Says a lot more about you than anything else you've said, bigot.

PS: when the correlation is extremely strong and repeatable, it usually implies causation. There's already research that proves that link isn't just correlation. Not that it seems you're actually interested in data or good faith discussion.

7
Gloomyreply
mander.xyz

You just described most people doing most jobs.

If your job is honestly comparable to that of a reluctant sex worker, you really need to switch jobs.

Pretty sure most people wouldn't work in whatever job they have if they didn't need the money.

Likewise, there's many who likely prefer doing porn over working in fast food or retail. After all, in one you get demeaned, mistreated, even abused, and in the other you get to orgasm for money.

This is a completly wrong conceptualization. Porn "stars" often are often locked into filming increasingly extreme and often increasingly violent content. Many are left back traumatized for life.

See, for example, this study.

This article challenges the consumer-centric view of pornography, which overlooks the exploitation and abuse of individuals documented in its production. The lack of conceptual clarity surrounding the nature of pornography obscures these abuses, leading to significant consequences for those affecte

Way to just say that women and LGBT+ don't like porn.

About 70% of consumers are men.

when the correlation is extremely strong and repeatable, it usually implies causation. There's already research that proves that link isn't just correlation. Not that it seems you're actually interested in data or good faith discussion.

Op might or might not be, but i am. Please feel free to back up your claim with data.

-4

If your job is honestly comparable to that of a reluctant sex worker, you really need to switch jobs.

Spoken like someone who's never struggled.

This is a completly wrong conceptualization. Porn "stars" often are often locked into filming increasingly extreme and often increasingly violent content. Many are left back traumatized for life.

This isn't the 90s. OnlyFans creators aren't beholden to an agency, which the paper you linked to mentions about.

About 70% of consumers are men.

30% is still pretty damn big, especially in context of how many human adults there are. That's still a potential of over a billion people by rough estimate based off a set of 4 billion.

Please feel free to back up your claim with data.

Looking through the comments here, it seems you already have been, but still don't care.

3

There's literally research done on that & it only means porn for men will get banned.

3

so here's the thing:

if playing these sorts of games makes you sad and lonely, that's a problem.

but if you are already sad and lonely, and playing these sorts of games makes you feel less so, that's a good thing.

people that say things like what you said seriously underestimate how many people in the world have trouble forming (healthy) relationships, regardless of the games the play.

the internet and computers could disappear and those people still wouldn't be better off; they'd just have fewer options.

and that sort of thing affects lots of different kinds of people: those suffering from mental disorders like depression, autism, various trauma, other conditions that make forming relationships difficult. those with physical handicaps, having similar issues about finding partners. and more.

I'm lucky enough to be able to have largely normal relationships (when i want to, when I'm in good enough a place to give it an honest go), but when i was in the deepest pits of depression that just wasn't an option. and i still craved some of that...so various kinds of smut filled that need quite well, temporarily.

not a great solution long term, but it is definitely a net positive for a LOT of people!

9