How do your toughts work?
As per title, I am curious. How does your mind / your thoughts work? I only ever experienced my own thoughts, so I'm curious how it works for other people.
I for one feel like my thoughts sometimes are like me talking to myself silently. Sometimes I can even let out a random short sound, which I've come to start disguising by laughing kinda quietly or coughing or whatever. Like it was part of something, and not like an inner monologue almost leaking out.
So, how do your thoughts work?
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I have no sound, voice, or pictures in my head. I didn't know that other people did see/hear things until a couple of years ago. Thoughts just come in chunks.
Me to. It’s called Aphantasia (no minds eye, so some or no pics) and Anendophasia (No inner voice). For me my thoughts are “just there” almost impossible to explain.
The way I explain it is: when you read, you don't read the words aloud in your head. You look at them and register their meaning. My thoughts are just those meanings. Usually in larger chunks than single words though. They don't have a language. I can 'picture' sounds I've heard before though, like getting a song stuck in my head. That one's more difficult with pictures.
Uuh, yes, yes I do read them aloud in my head.
Same. And depending on what I'm reading I'll sometimes use a specific voice..
Like if I'm reading a text from a friend I'll "hear" it in their voice. Or I'll make up voices for characters in a novel.
I think people are sometimes taught out of that since it slows down reading
I think it definitely does, but now I can't not.
This is not a good explanation because as someone already pointed out a lot of (most?) people do "read the words aloud in their head". For me, I often even make tiny moves of my tongue and larynx - see subvocalization.
Interesting, everyone I've told this to said that is indeed how they read!
Does reading something quietly take as long as reading something out loud for you? It's hard to imagine!
If I'm actually reading with the goal of thorough understanding then it will take as long as reading it aloud or longer. I can still skim through the text faster, but I will understand less of it.
The Wikipedia article on subvocalization has a section on speed reading. It seems that subvocalizing can in fact limit the reading speed.
Thanks for the pointer, I'll read the wiki!
Reading in my head certainly takes the same amount of time as reading out loud (occasionally with different voices for characters, as somebody else said).
If I read without doing that it's a lot quicker but it doesn't go in and I have to re-read it. My mind starts chatting away about something else rather than concentrating on the book.
Super interesting, cause for me it's the opposite! If I try to read it out loud mentally, my mind is (I guess) understimulated and starts to wander, causing me to have to reread it.
Side question: if you give text a voice, what kind of a voice are you giving my comments here? Not just asking you specifically, but anyone who wants to answer!
For me, there is kind of default neutral sounding voice for comments, but as soon as I get some kind of clue as to the speaker, either from language or punctuation patterns or if they say something about who they are- age, gender, nationality, etc., then the voice gets some more distinctive sound to it.
For instance, @[email protected], who is the main poster in several communities I subscribe to, has a picture of Leela from Futurama as her profile pic, and she has mentioned that she's a she. So obviously when I read a comment or a title she wrote, it's in Leela's voice.
Your comment seems energetic and friendly, so the voice is genderless and with a neutral (to me) accent, but with an energetic, friendly tone and cadence.
Mostly it's my own voice for comments 🙂, maybe a slight inflection. I don't usually go overboard on the voices unless it's somebody I know, or occasionally characters in books.
If I read out loud faster than certain limit the pronunciation becomes gibberish. Silent reading is much faster. OTOH when I read out loud, I focus on speech, my attention and hence understanding rate drops. So it takes even longer.
For complicated writing I sometimes even have to re read silently to understand the complete meaning.
Hm so it isn't like reading it out loud, except in your head, after all?
I'm not sure tbh. It can be but often it feels I'm reading the meaning of a word and not pronouncing it in head. These can be misleading easily. Writing, yes.
When I get a song stuck (which happens constantly) I don't hear it; I just have the unrelenting urge to sing it.
I couldn't understand what it's like for people who actually see and hear things in their heads. I recently realized that I sometimes experience a faint taste and I guess it's sort of like that?
I can taste food ok. Too ok, I seem to be some sort of super taster. Everything is to overpowering.
It scares me to think you could have pictures or movies in your head that you may not wish to have.
There was a bit of discussion about this on a podcast I listen to (Adrift) earlier in the year.
My mind is basically me taking to myself. As I write this I'm speaking all the words in my head. As I read it back I'm reading all the words in my head.
I believe there's a school of thought that you shouldn't read the words to yourself when you are reading, bit I have to do that otherwise it doesn't go in. I can read a page without the words being spoken in my head but I will then have no idea what any of the page said, v and have to re-read it. Same if my mind wanders while reading - anything I read whilst my internal voice is talking about something else will not go in.
I can't shut it up. If I think about nothing, my internal voice will literally be saying "I need to think about nothing. I should empty my mind. How do you think about nothing?".
It's extra fun when you know multiple languages since that voice also changes languages
You ever been in a crowded space with hundreds of people talking all at once? You can hear everyone, but not enough to really make out anything except once in a while when someone gets louder than everyone else.
That's what my thoughts are like when I am not high on weed.
When I am high, the crowd shuts the fuck up and I can actually focus on a single, complete thought.
just ADHD thingsFor me it's often like watching a movie and lots of 3rd person monolologue as well as one wierd idea after the other popping up and going.
I often alao have interviews with myself how I just killed it in certaim situations and do play by play analysis from these events.
When in public settings I often play in my mind some wierd social games: where I try to find the mood of others and react to what they do (kinda like a dating sim).
I also like to go back to past events and analyse what I could have done better and memorize what to do in a future convo.
Since I speak more than one language my thoughts change languages. When I consume or produce in a certain language my brain is basically in that language and all my thoughts are in that language.
I'm at about level 2 on this scale:
My thoughts are a lot of imagery imagination. There are "words" to go along with it, but there certainly isn't an extensive monologue/narrative/conversation going on.
If I have seen it less than about a hundred times, it is a 5. I will have some key words that let me describe it successfully to other people, but I can't actually picture it.
If I have seen it fairly regularly for a few years, or haven't seen it for several years, probably a 4.
If I have seen it for decades, it might be a 3. Apples, which I see at least every few days is a 3.
I'm a 4-5. Sometimes I can get like a wire frame sketch of the general shape of something.
5 to me, but my thinking is talking to myself and reading is reading the words out loud in my mind. What am i?
I can sort of see images, but they are usually vague, I can't really see them as such. If I'm reading and picturing something in my mind they can be a bit clearer though. I'm probably a 3.5-4 on that scale.
Hmm I've read about aphantasia before and heard shows about it but this diagram actually made me think I may be a 4 or 5. When I try to imagine an apple all I have is flutters of memories of what apples look like, , but I can't create a picture in my mind of one
My eyes are open and I can still see your comment on screen, but I can also "see" a clear picture of a red apple on a bright sunny day elsewhere in my mind. I can't explain how I can "see" 2 images simultaneously, but it often means I miss what someone is saying when talking to me, because I've started concentrating on my mental image instead.
I tried this, and I just hear Wuthering Heights by Kate Bush. No apple appeared. But I know I do picture things in my mind, all the time. Weird that I can't right now.
For me it is an internal monologue with a silent audience that contributes without a voice.
My internal monologue might say "is this thing I am about to do a good idea?" And a wordless thought will provide a second opinion which my internal monologue would interpret and possibly reply to.
I do have thoughts in words, language. I don't exactly hear or see it but it's definitely language based. Often two levels of thought, one superficial and another underneath, thinking about those superficial thoughts.
Same!! Gets bothersome sometimes honestly, especially when you just wanna focus on something
I usually dont engage directly with my thoughts unless I am talking to myself out loud which I often do.
I think mostly on instinct, and rationalise/summarize my actions only if I have to.
It's a bit like waking up at night in a pitch black room and making your way to the toilet. You barely remember it the next morning, but if someone asks you about it you say "oh yeah maybe" and retrieve/fabricate a memory of you navigating around furniture in the dark (because you MUST have), but can't actually recall it.
There's three hamsters running on a wheel in shifts up in my skull.
I switch between having language based thoughts and more abstract thoughts that aren’t language based. I find that my thoughts that aren’t language based are usually more complex. I also can imagine objects, rotate them or walk around familiar places in my mind. Oh and my language based thoughts tend to match the language I am speaking at the moment (I am trilingual).
My mind works by talking to itself, but it's more like I'm the wordless overseer of that voice. There is a lesser maybe faux alter ego's voice that's employed to bounce ideas off of or used for introspection, to humble myself, conceptualization, etcetera, but it can only talk to myself even out loud. If there's another person present they're only talking to primary.
Where I differ from many minds like other self talkers here it seems is that I have full control over the two voices employed by my ego, and if I stop talking it's silent in my skull. Since I also have Total Aphantasia it's a true void in here besides my emotions and hind brain/instincts unless I'm using the voice(s). No real distinction between thinking in my head and speaking out loud.
The unconscious mind passes stuff it processes to the voices to think about. More nuance is far more paragraphs than worth, so I'll leave it there.
Wow, I too can silence my mind. I think. Since I often think consciously, I can just stop and enjoy nothingness, which surely is interesting. Sometimes the contrast between thinking a lot and just plain nothing is quite interesting. Can go badly, though, when someone expects me to say something and I don't have anything to say. They must be on their own side just waiting, thinking I'm crafting something. Meanwhile, if anything, I'm on my side thinking of not thinking, or just plain empty, experiencing the akwardness. It's been some of the most awkward situations, when I'm done speaking and they wait in silence, like I'm not done yet. Yeah, my answer wasn't very long, and you may want more, but I'm just done on my side. Do I need to vocalise an End of Line character?
Two of my friends have insomnia because of racing thoughts, which is just a totally alien concept to me. One mitigates it somewhat with meditation, but the way he describes it seems like my natural state of being lol.
It's nice to meet another who can!
Yeah it's a fucking awful feeling, can relate. I loathe traditional dates especially.
Well, sometimes if my mind is too active, I can have a hard time falling asleep. I end up thinking too much or too "hard" and my brain can't rest. I sometimes just listen to music to fall asleep. As I focus on a song, my mind can drift asleep. Either that or I try and just not think, so my mind can rest. Sometimes I legit gotta go "welp, time to sleep. Silence, now" and just be quiet to try and sleep
A fun conversation starter is always "So do you have an internal monologue?"
I'm in the "inner monologue" camp. Most of what I think materialises as thought words. I don't have to move anything in my throat to do that unlike OP though, I can think in words without mumbling to myself.
But I know the voice can't be all. It's difficult for me to think in words while actively saying something, but I can have new thoughts while speaking. Sometimes, I get interrupted in thinking mid-sentence, but then I return to that sentence to finish it because... it's just satisfying? It's not that I learn anything new.
I feel like I don't have very much imagination any more. Its hard to produce images in my mind, not impossible but I do have to concentrate - remembering images is easier.
Weirdly, way harder to me: imagining a voice. Inner voice is what I sound like to myself, I can remember and replay songs and quotes as I heard them, but having any voice say anything is hard, especially female voices. Went through some examples in my head couldn't make anyone say anything - until I thought to make different tf2 mercs sing "Oh Canada", that somehow worked despite me definitely not having heard that before. Brains are weird.
If I've been listening to an audio book, or a tv series my inner monologue can take on the voice of the narrator or main character. I'm always afraid I'm going actually speak out loud like them, but it's never happened.
Ask yourself questions and your subconscious will retain them on voicemail. Eventually the call will be returned and you will have the "correct" response, either declaratively or more subtly as intuition
At any given time there's three functions going on in my head. There's a stream of calculations that constantly flow. There's my inner entertainment system that that translates those calculations to thoughts if they need to be translated. Then there's sorting room with the file cabinet and shredder to organize that flow of thoughts.
When I say entertainment system I mean my inner voice and the ability to visualize just by thinking. Is the voice what's traditionally considered a monologue? I don't know. It's nothing like Al Pacino giving a speech. It's some of the worst narration imaginable. What I think is happening is my mind is doing calculations then using my voice to put those calculations into my consciousness for me to understand. The amount of time my mind shuts the fuck up is almost nonexistent. It does happen but, for it to switch from monologue to nothing requires intervention. I'm either filling my head with something to occupy it like music, or reading, or video games which in that case my head voice focuses on whatever I'm throwing at my brain with a little spillage. Or I'm seeking out a purposefully quiet environment where I can just go and ignore my thoughts. Almost like meditation but I'm no monk. I'm not sitting in some room with my legs crossed and my arms out falling asleep. I usually just find some place quiet outside and take in the world around me.
What really grinds my gears is the sorting room. I imagine it as each thought going to a room with a few filing cabinets and a shredder in it. That room can probably be broken up into bodily function operations, everyday needs operations, and emotional operations. The first two are functioning, it's the emotional one that's backed the fuck up and overflowing. There's some shit that should have been shredded a long time ago. Some thoughts keep popping up because that particular filing cabinet is overflowing. It manifests itself as depression and anxiety. When my inner voice is concentrating on that, then I know I'm in for a tizzy. The narration goes from quiet nothings to fucking full blown yelling and screaming matches in my head. The dangerous part is resisting the urge...
I had a serious TBI when I was a kid and more than 15 concussions so my eggs are a bit scrambled.
I can’t sustain a mental image, I can only visualize flashes of things. If I try to hold on to a mental image, it’s just a series of flashes that quickly become warped until the image just kinda dissolves and I have to imagine a new one. I also kinda of can’t remember faces. I can recognize people, but I can’t describe anyone’s face or remember/visualize details. I can only describe my own face as a list of features I’m aware of, but I can’t visualize it nor do I recognize myself in photos.
Verbal thought usually comes in the form of a dialogue between myself and an imagined other person. There’s no one there and I knowingly come up with the question the other will ask, but I can’t just think to myself without quickly losing track.
I also have ADHD, OCD, and major depressive disorder, so I also have the symptoms and episodes of those rattling around up there. I’m not sure if I’d call them thoughts though, because they feel different.
I have prosopagnosia (facial blindness) too. Unless it's somebody I know really well, I will struggle to recognise them - especially if they are not where I'd expect them to be, or they've done something with their hair. I'm better with voices - if they speak I'll usually work out who they are straight away.
I’m like you, right down to the accidentally talking to myself and trying to play it off as other shit.
Wow, did not expect a match! I do also sometimes just flat out talk to myself, or say stuff aloud. Not sure that necessarily classifies into the topic of "thoughts", but whatever.
For me it’s like im talking to myself in my head and then start talking out loud, or im not sure if I started saying it out loud, so I start singing a song or some shit just in case.
I go back and forth between having an internal monologue. Generally day to day I might not hear the voice though.
I’m multilingual so if I’m in another country surrounded by people speaking in another language the monologue will be constant as my brain is focused on being immersed in the language.
Edit: Fixed typo monolingual → multilingual
I have an internal voice/monologue day-to-day but visual when engaging in recall.
Easiest way to describe it is when I read a novel it's all going in as words but if I think about a specific part later it's recalled as a picture my mind created out of the words. I read the book but recall the movie.
I hear my thoughts in monotone in English and sometimes Russia (my native language)[I am Ukrainian]{I speak Russian because I was born during the Soviet era}
I can see clear detailed images in my head but only in still frame.
My thoughts are the bald guy from the six flags dancing 24/7 to the song from the commercial.
The Vengabus… is coming.
MISTER SIX!
https://youtu.be/EbXSbP-wEFU
I'm a 1 on the aphantasia scale with maladaptive daydreaming. I am suffering.
schizophrenia here, my inner monologue is often conversational, like a string of words I'd speak to a person. and if I listen closely, I hear faintly a man or woman repeating the thought out loud, with emotion like confusion or contempt
What do you think of this? Do you think it applies to your situation?
https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2014/07/voices-culture-luhrmann-071614
I've seen this before, but after a re-read, I found this:
Yes, definitely. The people I hear are only ever critical or offensive, and "they" have learned what's most hurtful to me. If I start paying attention to their echoes of financial worry, they get louder and more forceful. There's something going on in my brain that learns what's most painful to me, and amplifies it to cause pain.
I wish you the best dealing with this. You seem very introspective and I’m sure that helps.
Yes, as a Westerner I'd agree with the study's findings. The people I hear are harsh, not mirthful.
And I am struck by this:
It's an invasive feeling, like an outsider in your head, digging around for things that hurt and embarrass you, then saying those things aloud. It makes you powerless, all you can do is sit there while someone yells out your most shameful thoughts, and there's no stopping them.
Fascinating. I hope science can bring relief to this.
I keep trying to make this comment, then deleting it and trying again because I'm not 100% sure I have a certain behavior, and thinking about thinking is very distracting
So, I have an inner monologue, mind's eye and I can change my inner monologue's voice if I want. I find it easier to organize my thoughts by speaking out loud, although I do not do that unless alone. Looking at a fixed point also helps me filter out whatever's going on outside to focus on my thoughts inside.
Either it's random flashes of images/videos or certain random memory from a long time ago, a certain tune/music being played on repeat, or inner mind just constantly asking questions. When I'm really focus on something all those noise are gone.
My thoughts are like background noise that when I tune in my internal LLM it gets turned into coherent language(English and Polish). I have recently learned to switch off that LLM for a moment, and as a side effect I begun to have problems with verbal communication.
Edit: I also have a model that turns noise into 3d models and scenes
Are you an LLM?
It's more interesting question than you might think.
Am I an LLM? I am not. Am I my thought noise from where LLM translates thoughts into language? I am not.
I am the one that experiences. I am one that contains and observes both of those systems.
I’ve definitely had the internal thoughts “leak” like you’re describing. I tend to think in almost another space outside of myself where sometimes I will forget my senses and have to actively return to them. Like I’m walking away briefly from the drivers seat to go take care of something in the back of the truck. I tend not to do this with others around as it can be rude. With others, I’m much more stream of consciousness.
Imagine big ball of hair wound up tight as it can be . You try extracting stand of hair from this wad only for it to break half way through . This's what brain shit's like for me
's not even COUNTING the fact I hafta somehow translate that into words human beings can understand , bcus existing in human body means am forced to ⦅socialise|communicate) with|relate to) humans, then try stringing the words together into some thing only somewhat coherent)
My thoughts are an absolute mess, and a combination of auditory and "visual" representations. My partner says when I am thinking really hard it looks like I am reading a book and talking to myself.
The same as everyone else's. The "differences" in the way people think can be ascribed to many things:
I believe you are acting way too definitive about something rather unknowable.
For example, what is Aphantasia then?
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4538954/
Long read, talks about internal monologue. I have some undiagnosed issue, possibly ADD.
My monologue (sometimes dialog) keeps changing every other week and difficult to keep track of.
Often my thoughts are so fucking fast, my inner voice really can't keep up. I try to sound them out in my head, but am aware of this, and my thoughts have already wandered on. So I really only monologue when I am thinking about a script/text or am analyzing/ problem-solving. Everything else feels like a mix of some short strings and feelings
I treat my mind as a big great block. If something is disturbing me, I stop to put everything into place and move "all together" again. It works and I'm more productive this way.
I have an internal narrator that doesn't sound like a specific voice that is like a pseudo auditory representation of my thoughts. This mostly applies to reading or troubleshooting where I'm consciously working through stuff. It also means that something which stands out as incorrect is massively annoying, like people confusing lose and loose because I 'hear' it. Homophones are fine!
I can't really picture things unless it is something I have seen many, many times. So no picturing something in my mind that I haven't seen before. Most things I have seen before are mostly vague ideas and with minimal detail. Like I know a baseball has the stitching and it curves in a certain way, but probably couldn't draw it. I know what my wife's face looks like, but can't quite picture it in my head because I don't look at a singular photo of her over and over.
But I can hold relational information like many to one combinations and 3d space relative positioning but without the ability to see it. So I can generally figure out if things will fit together even though I can't really 'see' them, I know they fill a certain volume relative to other things of a similar volume and that is generally good enough. Most things are measured relative to each other now that I'm thinking about it.
I have both voiced and unvoiced thoughts in my head, depending on what "level" the "thinking" is at. Like others in this thread, I heard every word of this comment as I typed it, as well as a few other times as I ideated and rephrased it before typing. However, some things, particularly practiced things, just happen without any "speaking", and I just get a notion of the end result. This sometimes leads to a weird thing where, when I'm concentrating on something, both the voiced and unvoiced "threads" will do the same thing, but the voiced thoughts move at the speed of speech, and so the unvoiced thoughts get there first, and then have to wait for the voiced thoughts to catch up. I then get to wonder why I just thought the same thing twice, and why I waited for the voiced thread to finish at all when I already knew the outcome. It's also not always just my own voice (though usually), I'll set up "straw-men" to represent a certain viewpoint or person if something needs that level of consideration, or I want to prepare for a difficult conversation (or reflect on one that went poorly) - I've seen memes about similar things, so I think that's pretty usual.
Similarly, when reading, I hear every word (not always in my own voice, characters and narrators sometimes get their own), but if I really get into the flow then parts will move into the unvoiced stream and I get much clearer images of what's going on (I'm a 1-2 on the aphantasia scale depending on concentration and familiarity) - that state is hard to get to, though.
No idea if any of that's normal or not, I've never really thought to talk to anyone about it.
Also, I occasionally have a small part of the inner monologue slip out as whispered speech too, like you said, though I don't tend to cover it up, if people ask I just say "oh, sorry, just thinking out loud a bit".
Edit: added more detail
My thoughts don't take form as a different persona or talk.
I guess they either arise automatically, or I consciously direct them? Both happen.
Even when I consciously direct them, I feel like most thoughts arise naturally from that, from the subconscious.
I think as if in duality at times. I've come to think of it like the subconscious or one brain half that doesn't know words injecting impressions, solutions, wants, into my conscious other brain half.
I think I can vaguely grasp how it can be that people have voices or other personalities in their head. I do not, though if my other brain half had developed a voice I'd be fucked. But that's just how I perceive it.
Well, I do very occasionally tell myself I'm an idiot verbally when a cringy social interaction flashback hits me again. I hate that.
In any case I can visualize memories easily, even if details are unreliable and gaps are often filled with most probable placeholders created by imagination. Similar to dreams perhaps.
I've wattched my mind go to different states of self perception which I find interesting and jarring. Sometimes it shows me self perception that I like, which motivates me and makes me happy about myself and confident. Sadly those shifts in perception are hard to keep alive for long, hard as I might try.
My thinking happens in words and images equally, depending on the task. While writing this the right words just come from an unknown source and what I want to say is a concept finding it's way with these words. As if one part is showing what message I want to deliver in words while a seperate process hands out the right words checking each word if it still conveys the intended meaning.
I analysed this while writing this and now feel like there is an type if LLM setup in my head as a component.
My brain is like having 100 apps and tabs open and my brain constantly hitting alt-tab some random number of times.
There's an internal dialogue, usually. Might even basically be a copy of someone else. That's most of my conversations anyway. I am pretty social, it just doesn't extend far outside my mind. I often re-use bits from these imagined conversations when actually talking with those people, but that usually doesn't work out.
One on one conversations are ok-ish, but 3 or more people, are just a mess. Often I get no response. Either I wasn't heard, or I talked at the wrong time, or whatever else. I'll wait for minutes for the right moment to say something, and it's still badly timed, or the conversation has moved on.
But anyway, I can have fairly rich conversations, even with multiple people inside my mind.
Also, my thinking works better when walking.
Imagined sounds, especially music can be enriched with light tapping of teeth, sucking around saliva and rumbling from tensor tympani.
I have no internal monologue but I do have a mind's eye. Ideas and thoughts appear to me in "splashes" or like a very quick flash. I can detect patterns in behavior and speech very accurately and quickly, and this abilty/quirk also makes me very tired rapidly. I love complicated stuff but get bored easily. Reading is one of my passions but I have to have different books for different times and places.
Inner monologue with commercial interruptions... No seriously, random commercial jingles pop into my thoughts randomly while I am going through my thoughts.
I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU
I HAD NEVER THOUGHT OF IT THAT WAY AND NOW I CAN'T NOT THINK OF IT THAT WAY
If I'm just casually thinking about something. In other words, it is a subject that does not require too much to come to a conclusion, then I actually think in words. That process can provide a solution almost immediately, to taking several minutes.
If I'm thinking about something that requires a lot of cognitive function, then my mind essentially goes blank. Either I no longer think in words, or the memory of what I was thinking about is not laid down in long term memory until I come to a conclusion. Or if my "sub-consciousness" took over the heavy lifting and my cognitive functions were left out of the loop. I honestly have no idea, but if it is something I am truly concentrating on, I will have no actual memory of the thought process that brought me to a conclusion.
Some of the most confounding things that I have had to think on, I literally slept on it and had a finished thought when I woke up. I have done that several times in my life. Again, not sure if it was just that I needed rest, or if my brain actually worked the problem while asleep and delivered it when I awoke.