2,000 National Guard troops will be sent to L.A. amid clashes over immigration raids - Los Angeles Times
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-06-07/paramount-home-depotOpen linkView original on lemmy.world899
Comments216https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-06-07/paramount-home-depotOpen linkView original on lemmy.world
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming, four dead in Ohio.
This summer I hear the drumming.
This is what 2A is for. This is what Madison feared.
That is exactly how we embolden fascism. Madison advocated for a well-regulated militia, not 1-2% of the population throwing cinder blocks and M80s. We needed numbers before allowing them to bait us into escalation.
Hegseth has the Marines standing by, and the Insurrection Act will be next. This is Trump’s Reichstag Fire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire
Edit: Please share this.
They don't need any actual justifications to "embolden" them, in the absence of actual resistance they'll just lie to justify doing exactly what they were always planning in doing, this is not s good reason to passively accept anything they're doing
I watched it happen all day yesterday. Protesters are throwing rocks through windows of vehicles as they drive by. They’re lighting M80s and throwing them at the agents.
The VAST majority is peaceful. Many are throwing rocks. A few are taking even further.
I get that they’re pissed, but this isn’t the solution. Refusing to walk into a trap isn’t cowardice, it’s strategy.
You watched and learned nothing, resistance isn't a trap and your passivity won't save you
I never said resistance was a trap. I said violent resistance was. Violence will hand Trump his Reichstag Fire on a silver platter.
Nonviolent "resistance" is worthless, idk what part of "they will make shit up anyway" you're not understanding
Trump is itching to enact the Insurrection Act. That will make growing our numbers far more difficult. Meanwhile, you’re advocating losing resisters to incarceration, scaring people back into their homes due to unsafe protest conditions, while giving Trump the justification he needs to strip our rights.
Do you always think with your feelings? You should try your brain. Logic and strategy know no cowardice. They only know how to outthink the opposition.
Then GET BETTER at violence.
They've been lying about violence and crime to get us here. Even if every protestor backed up every time ICE stepped forward, they would find an excuse to escalate.
“Don’t resist, you’ll embolden them!” Jesus Christ, you guys are so boned.
Violent resistance will decrease our numbers. Increasing them is our number one priority.
It’s going to be really surreal when they do start putting people in camps and they’re just packed with very surprised white liberals wearing full clown makeup
They can’t do that legally right now. If they tried, the military would defend us, not follow the unconstitutional orders of POTUS. That would change if we become a domestic threat.
Hasn't stopped them so far.
I don’t even know where to start with this comment. Jesus Christ.
They want another Kent State
Is it gonna be Kent State or Tiananmen Square?
First one, then the other
More like Concord or Lexington
Just saw an ICE truck carrying a bunch of jackboots through Echo Park. Don't know where they're ultimately heading to though.
How do you know it's an ICE truck? What does it look like? I've seen white ones in videos, but surely they don't all look the same.
It was a big black unmarked truck full of black armor wearing soldier types hanging off the sides. I'm no expert on cop sightings but I'm pretty sure even they have their emblem on the sides of their heavy duty vehicles. Besides, isn't it their MO nowadays to go everywhere wearing balaclavas without visible insignias or name tags?
You could tell because it had fanciful decorations of ice cream cones and candy on the sides and it had a big horn loudspeaker playing "Turkey in the Straw". You see them all the time just driving slowly up and down the neighborhood streets.
It was driven by Brian Moser AKA Rudy Cooper
Nothing a couple of well placed cocktails couldn't handle.
"Quick! The Gestapo is running into resistance, send in the SS!"
Threaten the 4th largest economy in the world with leverage you don't really have. Encourage escalation tactics for illegal detainment of peoples under the jurisdiction and protection of the Constitution. Ignore the Constitution and normalize the absurd use of the term deportation. Cry about it on social media and then throw a fit and send troops to peaceful protests ( as per LAPD ).
Frail ideology.
Fucking newspapers these days, this shit is important.
https://archive.ph/3X3Fe
OK, so the same shit about "trump is going to". last I heard newsom was in charge of CA NG. Trump isn't allowed to bring them up without a declaration of emergency or whatever.
Just bullshit that they will walk back in the morning.
e: LA times and AP seem to think this is actually happening. This is the boiling point; are you going to sit in the pot or jump out?
My only complaint (and I get to blame Regan) is that we can’t open carry here in Cali. That would help stop a lot of federal response if we had that capacity again.
I’m not for destroying government property since that’s property that belongs to the people, but I also respect that change doesn’t happen with complacency. Plus if it was a peaceful protest for Jan 6ers then why is this not considered one?
Every day I wish we didn’t have the current admin in charge since they lack capacity and bandwidth to take care of the real economic issues facing our generation and time.
Completely agree though that the national guard is in control of the governor. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if Newsom agrees to bring them in if the feds kick in FEMA funding like they’re supposed to.
Open carry would have stopped NOTHING.
Flashing a gun at those GI Joe wannabes would have triggered their tiny brains to go into shoot to kill mode, and it would have been a massacre.
These dimwits are trained for full blown military responses. That's easy for them, they have the gear, the training, and the psychopaths to shoot on sight.
What they can't handle is massive civil disobedience, because they can't arrest 100k, 500k, 1 million people who are out there lawfully protesting.
But it's nutjobs like you, or that moron who sped their car at the agents, who will fuck it up for everyone.
Don't bring your gun. Keep it at home, and if shit gets to the point where they start killing people, then defend yourself.
This is the correct response at this point.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-the-failure-of-nonviolence
As an addendum, I will say I agree with the argument put forward in your link that pacifism is a death sentence against a government willing to kill en masse regardless of what effects it would have on the world stage.
I don't think the USA is at the point where nonviolent methods are ineffective.
https://anarchistnews.org/content/hostages-gun-militancy-and-militarism
And look at Chile in 2019: https://itsgoingdown.org/submedia-presents-interrebellium-the-estallido-social/
They brought their authoritarian government to its knees with continued non violent (in the sense of lack of firearms) resistance combined with an effective general strike.
They ultimately failed because the liberal parts of the resistance fell for the reformist bait, but it demonstrated that you don't need violence to win if you're able to educate the movement that reform is a trap.
I disagree. They bring guns to scare us. To let the protestors know there are consequences.
For them to deal with an armed populace let's them know if they start shooting, they might catch a bullet. They have to face that real consequence and it scares them.
Until that point, they pretty much know they don't face ANY repercussions for ANY action they do.
I'm not saying to start armed protests. But this isn't "flashing A gun" it's 50 or 100 people who could lay hundreds or thousands of rounds at or in them if they do start using their weapons. And it will scare them into second guessing whether their life is worth detaining a few potentially illegal immigrants.
And, we outnumber them. Maybe not now with the amount of guns civilians own. But if the government starts shooting to kill random people at a protest. People will arm themselves and they will train themselves. The populace is a lot larger than police forces and military.
I agree with your points.
As someone who lived in Minneapolis during the "riots", peaceful protest was instigated by police in order to arrest and get rid of the people in the streets. Then the police went to the news and said it turned into a riot. So many examples of police being instigators. Shooting sandbags at people in their homes, pepper spraying from their vehicles when people were walking down the street in cross walks peacefully, people beat further when on the ground bleeding. I imagine how the police would have acted if people were carrying. Would it have been a bloodbath? Or would they have been too nervous to do anything?
You act like I’m advocating murder. I’m advocating letting the government know that we can also have weapons and fight back. That doesn’t make me a fucking nut job, it makes me someone who has read a history book.
Civil disobedience has almost never worked, compared to armed disobedience. Even if those weapons are never fired. The point isn’t to go in shooting, it’s to get the military and police to back down and give the people what they demand.
You’re advocating for us to all roll over and wait until this administration gives us what we’re politely but firmly asking for. Which will never happen. They live for a show of force.
Keep holding your beliefs, it’ll be the last thing through your smug brain before the government executes you.
Show them a gun and you better be prepared to pull that trigger the moment they see it, because you're going to die.
In a tense situation where there's been some minor violence, a gun will immediately escalate things to a lethal level.
Stick to what I said and don't make up stuff in your head please. I'm not against forceful opposition - rocks fly, things catch on fire, barricades get erected.
But don't give them an armed conflict where they will 100% win, and much more easily spin it to fit their agenda.
That's exactly what the Hamas attacks did - those fucking morons opened the door and put down a red carpet for Israel to get away with launching a full out "justified" war.
With what? Left weapon at home.
They aren’t going to kill many unarmed protesters, especially initially. There’s a reason they stopped at 4 during the Kent state fiasco.
Most of us will be fine and able to go home and plan for guerrilla tactics that have a better chance of survival later.
Edit: decided to emphasize my point even though only one person apparently missed it.
I love how you mention “they” aren’t going to kill unarmed protestors, and then proceed to mention a literal event in which they did. This country is founded on the government and corporations killing unarmed protestors.
He never said they aren't going to kill anyone.
He said they aren't going to kill many.
Which is true, up until a bunch of people pull guns, and then they'll kill everyone.
What’s the acceptable number of dead people before also showing you’re armed is acceptable? Is it 5? 10? Maybe 1000?
If you pull up with guns they may kill you, but you have a better fighting chance than not. Plus if you were already going to die, since you’re so kind to sacrifice some people, wouldn’t you rather take some of them with you?
You’re playing by a made up set of rules where you think you being more moral than them makes you superior but it makes you dead and a loser.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-the-failure-of-nonviolence
Tldr
National guard can be taken and commanded by the president. But when that doesn't happen, it's chief commander is the governor.
The State Guard is solely under the command of the governor. It cannot have its control taken by the federal government. However, the state guard is often trained by the national guard and share membership.
I only saw a few clips of the protest. Did the protestors cause destruction of property? It looked like they took a bunch of stuff from home Depot to make a barricade.
I didn't see much property damaged by protesters aside from ICE/DHS vehicles, but I did see numerous fires started by the munitions the nazis were using.
Ya’ll shouldn’t need to open carry because you idiots in the US could have just voted for not insane leaders for decades. Always a bad solution to a problem ya’ll could have easily avoided.
California did not vote for Donny Dumbass. Retaliation on blue states is part of the Trump agenda.
(Though he's pissed off a couple red states too)
Oh it's so simple! Why didn't we just do that? Couldn't possibly have anything to do with decades of undermining education and spewing propaganda through fox news
Damn republicans! How could they! Bring in the democrats!
You're discounting decades of propaganda and social engineering. But go off I guess.
So many other places have figured how to at lesst not be as bad as the US, and they’ve also figured out how to stand up for themselves without firearms. US citizens are largely stupid cowards who will allow themselves to be sold for scrap so they can pretend that things are ok. There’s stupid and then there’s the US, the country with all the resources but not the two braincells to do anything with them. Ya’ll were fucked long before the propaganda and social engineering really took hold, and when it did those techniques came in playing on easy mode. The rest of the world looks at you amazed at how bad you are at everything and how you can’t even be bothered to at least be good people while sucking so bad.
We have had to watch the US put up clear, articulate, and even energizing politicians only for them to never make it into power way too many times. We’ve had to watch even mediocre people lose to people so insane and that even Fox News can’t hide it. It’s wild how fucked that country is, and now some douche canoe is bitching that they aren’t allowed to open carry because of course that’s your fucking solution.
Garbage country. Country of garbage.
The UK seems to keep letting Boris do shit in government.
AfD in Germany doubled their power in the last election.
Duterte hit the scene in the Philippines before trump in the US.
Italy just elected a far-right PM.
The biggest mistake you can make regarding the conservative dipshit death cult in the US, is assuming that your fellow dumbass citizens aren't vulnerable to the exact same rhetoric.
Oh, the whole place is falling apart and US setting trends is a big part of that problem. Us in Canada should have done way better than we did last election, but even we managed to not do our usual flip-flop and barely scraped by not electing a massive piece of garbage who would have rolled over for Trump at every turn.
Didn’t I also say “long before” in there? That Duterte comment lookin’ kinda like you either weren’t reading like you think Trump is where it started falling apart. Or you think 2010 is ancient and irrelevant history, maybe.
Ah, so you know first-hand what I'm talking about. All this shit going on in the US, and your populace just barely didn't shoehorn themselves into a far right shithole.
The biggest mistake you can make, is thinking that it can only happen in the US.
JuSt VoOoTe!! VOooTe HaRdER! I'm VOOTING!!
Voting in a imperialist empire is like fucking with a limp dick. Some just can't see far enough ahead so they shame those who wake up and smell the coffee. Your voting record is one more data point in your non existent privacy rights. America is not a democracy but a fascist neolibturd dookie arse hell hole. Always has been.... Orange man bad is getting old. Libturds are in such denile. I am 40 beegillion years old. During the beginning of iraq afgan era I paid close attention. I am never surprised. All is going to plan. It is a hierarchical class structure of dildos using dildos as the slaves watch the puppet show. Some are literate but lack class consciousness and critical thinking. This is just the beginning. Democrats are all fascist. You are in denile.
More people voted for not Trump than for Trump.
He won with the popular vote the second time so congrats on just being objectively, verifiably, flat-out wrong, I guess. Plus it should not have even been close, even the first time when he didn’t win the popular vote. He has always given STRONG “weird fringe party guy” energy yet that dumbass country gleefully elected him or didn’t even show up because they didn’t find he was dangerous enough to do anything about. The opposition was a conservative who’s biggest selling point, after she tanked her own campaign by ignoring her base, was that she wasn’t Trump. Absolutely absurd.
And I’m only slightly less pissed about my fellow Canadians only barely electing a centrist over a Trump dick-sucker. Again, a party that doesn’t even have real policies should not get any votes and yet is for some reason the main contender.
Total votes for DJT: 77,302,580
Total votes for all the other people (Harris, Stein, Kennedy, Oliver and other) combined: 77,935,722
So yes, DJT won the popular vote, but the majority, even if just a teeny tiny one, did not vote for him. DJT just got 49.8% of the total votes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election#Results
I see what you’re getting at, my point otherwise still stands. Fucking embarrassing.
Trump pulled off a lot of things he has no right to. Like deporting innocent people without due process to a death camp.
Im not sure but I believe after 911, national guard units were deployed to Iraq (which had nothing to do with 911) by order of the president. I believe that if the president declares an emergency then they can use the national guards however they want.
It would make sense if Congress were required in this decision making process but that would be out of character for a fascist criminal ring
Holy fuck. Some finally have the balls to stand up and fight and a bunch of you are all...this is wrong. Escalation and violence is not ok...or...but they have so many big guns.
Your country is run by a fucking dictator. Your own people are being forcefully removed from their homes and families and put in concentration camps.
Unbelievable.
I have leveled some pretty strong words at Americans in the past- but it wasn’t until this year that they really revealed themselves as a nation of utter cowards.
Big yikes. "Insurrectionists"? Bloody hell.
Every accusation is an admission.
Conservatism was the original reactionary movement, and it essentially sought to restore the nobility within democracy, complete with the different rules applying to said ingroup. Modern conservatism only differing in the sense that its supporters really want to become part of said ingroup.
conservatism/liberterinism,dont realize the ingroups, are the oligarchs only.
How is a peaceful protest in LA an "Insurrection," while violently attacking cops and raiding the Capitol to stop the certification of the vote, is not?
you know why
Yep, I do. It's because they are Traitors and Criminals.
Someone get my NWA CD and boombox, we hitten the streets.
+1...The original boombox used tape cassettes and most with two for playing and recording. Don't forget your roller skates too.
When I was seven, I learned a lesson from Cube and Eazy-E What was it again? Oh yeah, fuck the police
I was actually a teenager but the sentiment...
Could i interest you in a very loud WOOP WOOP. That's the sound of the police. Or possibly a WOOP WOOP. That's the sound of the beast.
Throw some RATM in there too!
I would like to see California boldly and forcefully repel this invasion, but I don't know how it would work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_National_Guard
EDIT:
When I look at this as Trump and his gang deliberately inciting conflict with state/local governments in order to have an excuse to seize control from them before the next election, the situation becomes even trickier.
If the governor activates them first, it limits the reasons the president can activate them and override the governor.
Of course Trump would try to do it anyway, meaning the NG commander would have to decide who to follow (and let's be real, it would probably be the president).
States giving up their military power was a mistake. States need to rebuild and restore their State Guards/State Defense Forces. The ability to federalize the National Guard removes its ability to function as the State Militias that it replaced.
No, the mistake was the complete corruption of US politics through naked graft and a FPTP voting system leading to extremist views being the only rallying opposition to reasonable stances.
The government needs to get purged of lobbyists and money.
Why not both ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No, being able to federalize them was intended. We weren't supposed to have a standing federal army, only call them up from the militias as needed.
Turned out pretty quick that that didn't work too well in reality.
It worked fine until we got a bit of that sweet sweet imperialism.
State militias were never intended to fight the national government. In fact, they were intended to help fight insurrection.
Activate the to defend the border. West coast Pacific Ocean border.
Drones being annoying low diving like flys?
Buy guns, learn how to use them
On it. Now I just need friends. If you see a guy in green, that might be me.
I figure we need a suitable color to separate ourselves from the politics of yore.
Drones, everyone should be looking at fiber optic drones. If for no other reason than you can put one in the sky with a thermal camera above your home.
Hell it doesn't even need to have a fiber optic cable, having that information is very valuable.
Anyone remember what this was from?
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"
That works until people the conservatives don't like start arming up. Like Black Panthers.
Well then everyone the conservatives don't like need to start arming up before they realize the gun control they always wanted exists, but only to keep "mental ill" people from buying them and the only things considered illnesses are things conservatives don't like.
Breaking through the mental wall for anti-2A liberals unfortunately only happens once it's too late to get effective training, if it happens at all...
A gun/gear group I know of recently tried to donate money to a charity for queer folks in the the south. The charity denied the donation because "they don't take money from anyone who uses firearms for work" (paraphrased).
Let's take a moment to digest that.
I recently got a small group of gay/trans/ally/hiking friends to a range and I think it's going to be a more regular thing. I have a couple and another person had several, and the range does rentals. One of us (who'd never even fired a gun) has a small piece of property and they ended up trying/purchasing a little 10/22 to take out to their property to start trying to get some small game. I'm deep in the a red state though so convincing more on-the-fence/marginalized people to protect themselves isn't hard given the right conversation.
I tell people as often as I can, especially my trans and bipoc friends; now is the time. Get a couple guns (a long one and a short one) and learn how to use them. Learn some basic first aid, you really just need to know how to stabilize someone. Start networking with like-minded people in your communities. The police will not protect us, they’ve proven they’ll happily club senior citizens to the ground and shoot any protesters in the face with rubber bullets while escorting a rightwing murderer to safety. Iran was a secular, liberal state until almost 1980 when they (mostly legitimately) elected an Islamist theocracy; it could happen here.
The shadowy cabals the rightwing says are behind everything is classic projection again, they're controlled by shadowy cabals of rich people. One of the primary ghouls/traitors responsible for the attempted overthrow of our government on J6 was Roger Stone, the same traitorous ratfucker who began his career working for Nixon and has a fucking Nixon tattoo on his back. It's really impossible to overstate how bad these people are and they're winning.
The coup was successful, they're in power and if they don't want to give it up they won't.
Get to know people in your community. Take an interest in growing food, learn how to fix things. Establish secondary lines of communication and start preparing.
https://www.dsausa.org/
https://mutualaiddisasterrelief.org/
https://socialistra.org/
https://generalstrikeus.com/
https://afsc.org/news/how-create-mutual-aid-network
https://www.immigrantdefenseproject.org/raids/
https://mutualaidhub.org/
Yeah, But it was never intended to stop things from happening from the inside. Whoever ends up on the opposite side of the military in the end is going to lose.
It depends on how many people end up on the opposite side. Tens, hundreds, for sure. Thousands, likely. Tens of thousands, not so certain. Hundreds of thousands, I don't know. If the army starts shooting to kill any significant numbers of Americans, things are going to get very interesting.
Well, we always knew #RATM were right, but no one expected yet another playbook decades after this album was released in 1999. It all feels that unreal... 😔
"I liked them before they got all political" -- Some Republican dumbass.
I can only assume they thought Bulls on Parade was about a family holiday to the beach.
The video for "Freedom" was the first time many in Gen X learned about AIM and Leonard Peltier.
RATM is half the reason for my political awareness and absolutely why I know about AIM (and that Val Kilmer movie but RATM is why I actually looked into it).
There was that Val Kilmer movie
elon could do the funniest thing here and declare open rebellion against tyranny
The funniest thing he could do is drive a cybertruck off a cliff.
*Let the FSD cybertruck drive him off a cliff while demonstrating how good it is at not doing that.
I was gonna go with "accidentally share evidence that DJT manipulated the 2024 election results with his help".
No need. Here's the data about the failed attempt in 2020 and the successful attempt in 2024.
https://sdvoice.info/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won-here-are-the-numbers/
https://youtu.be/UgIay64Obcs
https://youtu.be/t-yr-Mgkhm0
https://electiontruthalliance.org/eta
First and last links are the data. The middle links are for us stupid people that need to be told how to read the data in the last link.
Honestly, the situation is so dire, that I'd ONLY have him locked up for life if he did that, and force him to eat garbage food that tastes awful.
Going full Pregozhin
Pregozhin half-assed it and now he ded
And Musk only knows how to do it half-assed - not that he'd be missed
His life will be celebrated by many, especially the end.
Perfect
Are the Europeans proud of our protests yet?
Not yet. Protest harder.
(Secretly proud of you.)
Well, Americans always defend their guns because they could use them to rise up against their government. So honestly, although normally considered impressive, you Americans raised our expectations even higher.
We have guns, but the government has even more.
There's not so much gained from escalation. Cameras are still the best weapon, considering how many allegedly sentient organisms still have support for Trump's actions. Media has claimed that "they're only arresting violent illegals", and "they're only using soldiers to stop violent riots". Regretfully, millions of people still believe that. The more evidence we can generate that both are untrue, the more that we can turn the tide.
Asmongold is the most stunning, he just gurgles up all the content, and regurgitates back to his audience with the most bland, predictable responses imaginable. He is completely fucking blind.
Sadly, the people that oppose totalitarianism are mostly the ones that opposed owning guns and lived according to their beliefs.
It is coming.
Not even Hong Kong protests level yet.
“…The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear. Remember that. And know this, the day will come when all these skirmishes and battles, these moments of defiance will have flooded the banks of the Empire's authority and then there will be one too many. One single thing will break the siege. Remember this. Try.*
-Karis Nemik, Andor
So beautifully written. Andor is the best tv of the decade.
And so it begins.
the point of protesting is the escalation. this is success.
The authorities wouldn't send the National Guard if they thought they could just ignore you. So i'd say this is a success.
It's really not
Trump doesn't need to understand this for it to be true, but the gov right now depends a lot on opporating in the dark to get away with massively illegal and unethical actions that would harm public opinions and reactions. By forcing them to opporate in public with the press focused on the protests makes them face accountability.
What’s to stop Cali national guard from ignoring Orange man? Or maybe I have been watching/reading too much fiction.
Drawing the ire of the federal government. If their commander refuses, he'll be removed and replaced with someone who will comply.
That commander is appointed by the CA governor, and I don't see Newsom fighting the feds on this (or much of anything, really, so far it's only been joint lawsuits against economic issues). Conceivably, Trump could argue that when federalized, he could remove the commander himself and appoint an interim commander, or just leave it unfilled and have DoD control them directly.
The national guard is under federal control. California will have its own state guard.
Their feelings. Soldiers are humans, not machines. They will go with their hearts and minds to decide whom they fight for.
Hopefully, they will decide to side with the good guys, not Agent 'Krasnov' Orange.
You are a naive liberal
They swore an oath to uphold the Constitution. They have a duty to ignore, report, or even actively resist an unconstitutional command.
So glad I never joined the National Guard cause I would definitly refuse to go, and if forced, join the side of of the ones fighting ICE.
If this turns into an American Tiananmen Square, you're going to end up knocking a star off that flag.
It depends on whether we're allowed to talk about it in 5 years.
The rest of the world is watching and we will be talking about it even if the "land of the free" isn't allowed to.
Absolutely you are, We will too.
The key difference between tiananmen square and what's going on right now will be whether US citizens are prohibited from talking about it in 5 years.
If you are citizens aren't prohibited then it wasn't a tiananmen square.
Right now, 50/50 maybe 60/40
Most of the people on this site that cheer this on also happen to be the ones who think that the Tiananmen Square massacre didn't happen, and if it did then it was a good thing.
Could this be the start of the Second American Civil War?
Calm down Tim Poole
I predicted over six months ago that the US wouldn't make it past July 4th, 2025. Only a few weeks away and reporters are being shot by police and posse comitatus has been violated. Soon the actual armed forces of your nation will be in the streets and you will have a choice to make.
No, they'll keep escalating through next summer. By then, we'll have had hyperinflation, food shortages, Luigi's trial, deportations of naturalized/ birthright citizens, arrests of elected officials, etc. and things will get really ugly. That's when the MAGA Nazis will have their Tiananmen Square moment, probably in multiple cities, and HitlerPig will declare Martial Law, and suspend the Midterm election for the first time in American history. That will protect his Congressional majorities, and keep the Democrats from gaining any investigative, subpoena, or arrest powers. Once elections are suspended, he's president forever.
THAT will be the end.
Meh...this reminds me of the Portland riots a few years ago. Shit was crazy and really intense but the U.S. didn't fall apart if that is what you are alluding to. We just kept on picking up our shovels and shovelling shit.
Portland doesn't control anything in the US. It's not even among the top 10 cities. LA is a totally different deal.
Even LA won't mean the end of the government, but a military attack on one of the biggest cities in America is a enormous warning to the resistance that the MAGA Nazis are willing to do ANYTHING.
If any other nation launched a military attack on LA, we would absolutely consider it an act of war, and if the MAGA Nazis use the military against American citizens exercising their 1st Amendment rights, ALL American citizens should also consider it an act of war against us by our own government.
Yup...and what will we do about it? Nothing. They could blow up California and we still wouldnt do shit. Pearl Harbor, cold war, 9/11, foreign enemy? We got you covered buddy. Put micro transactions in Battlefront 2. We got you covered buddy. Throw a Nazi salute on live TV...we miiiiight stop buying your product..seems like we are making some progress there. Reverse Roe v Wade....hmm..
It's still early, HitlerPig hasn't even been in power for 6 months, and look how much chaos he's caused. We couldn't have imagined this a year ago.
It can get much worse, and it will, if for no other reason than he intends to push the American people relentlessly until they do fight back. Then he can justify hurting them.
Talk to me when the marines land in LA.
Dang, C U next Tuesday, I guess.
700 Marines landed today, apparently.
Not my country 👍
try buying gun and then likely second amendment
You don't have the right, O you don't have the right! (Actually you do)
TACO
Yep, really chickened out of deploying Gestapo.
Martial law incoming.
Bring ‘em.
Other states, you know what to do.
The "L.A. 92" part of this song needs an "L.A. 25" update.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbKcL7q8RJU
AMERICA! IS FUCKED! NEVER COMING AGAIN TO SAVE THE FUCKING DAY YEAH!
New rage against the machine album coming...
Time to fuck up some fascist. Someone is going to get domed soon when the current escalation.
What kind of clash? A violent one or?
I think they meant The Clash.
I hope this don't turn to a civil war
I mean the Nazis aren't going to go ohh my bad we should have another try at the election.
The options at this point are 1: a civil war or 2: surrendering to the fascist regime.
Well, we won't call it that. Vietnam was techincally "a police action", but we all know it was a war. This police action will get folks killed in an effort to take prisoners, which sure sound like a...
Also Nixon's distraction from his own problems
July 4th...
I just don’t see how a civil war could start. It’s not like back in the day where you could just amass an army without the state really knowing
The amount of intel the state has means that nothing will get off the ground
I guess if like a state and it’s national guard would revolt and other states join them? Seems very unlikely though
Since there is a lot of fictions between dems and republicans and there is many gun owners in the usa some people could decide to use arms to counter ice and republicans could side with ice and do the same
I hope they're scared
Trump: "Bist du faschistisch?"
https://youtu.be/ZQAmic9m50Y
Realistically, the rioters are going to eventually be condemned by the peaceful protestors, and the general population will soon follow, thus giving support for law enforcement to squash them and end the fiasco. This has been the case for a loooooong time.
Normally I might agree but this is LA. They've been through this shit before.
True, but they also ended the same way. There's people at out here thinking this is the start of some revolution, and that's just delusional. This is just run of the mill urban unrest. We've had it before and we're for sure going to have it again in the future.
Then the peaceful protestors don’t really care about advancing the cause they’re protesting for.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-the-failure-of-nonviolence
Ah yes, I'm sure those peaceful protesters during the civil rights movement didn't care about the cause they were protesting for.
The civil rights movement succeeded because the authorities were made to realize that if they didn't play ball with MLK, folks like Malcolm X and Huey Newton were the alternative.
That's just false, civil rights weren't achieved through intimidation. The movement succeeded because it achieved it's objective through peaceful means. The movement organized peaceful protests to raise awareness and bring attention to the issues, they organized and fought legal battles challenging the status quo, they created institutions to help campaign for their causes, and disavowed violence to win over the general public. It is the prime example in history what peaceful protesting can achieve.
The civil rights movement is not alone, other movements like the suffragette movements in the West, the Salt Marches in India, the Singing revolution in the Baltics, and so on all achieved momentous things peacefully.
You mean this suffragette movement?
Why is India partitioned, then? (Hint: take a look at the Muslim League's tactics and goals.)
Kind of a special case; the USSR collapsed all by itself and didn't try to oppose them.
Yes. It was a peaceful movement. Their goals weren't achieved through violence.
The goal of the movement was to end British rule over the subcontinent, and they achieved that goal.
You're not giving these people their credit. The Soviet Union was filled with violent factions that wanted to prevent dissolution and the end of communism. These people managed to literally sing their way to independence.
I linked to a literal book that argues otherwise.
I don't get it
Why do you want to prevent ICE from deporting illegal immigrants?
Why do you want illegal immigrants to stay here so bad?
Alright, I’ll bite.
Because I would much rather ICE spend its resources preventing IMs from entering the country, rather than rounding up IMs who have been living here peacefully for 20+ years.
Because—and I’m willing to debate the utility of this—a significant portion of our agricultural economy depends on IMs who will work below the standard of living legally required for our citizens.
Because the vast majority of IMs are just people seeking asylum from cartels and/or horrible dictatorial governments and are not a threat to the American way of life.
Because IMs by and large do not “steal” jobs from American workers but rather do jobs most Americans would never consider doing. See said issue with our agricultural sector.
Now, let’s hear your reasons for wanting to spend the immense amount of money necessary to find and deport these people. Because I’m sure your arguments are incredibly well thought out.
I would argue that instead of ICE, we should have a vastly expanded IRS to enforce regulations upon businesses. For example, every business is assigned state and federal accountants, who check that the books are legit. These accountants are regularly rotated by the nation, so that companies can't establish "working" relationships with any given accountant, which reduces corruption.
This would increase the amount of money that government receives from the 1%, along with helping prevent wage theft or other criminal activities. Businesses, not migrants, are innately prone to corruption.
Why instead of ICE? These are not mutually exclusive things and they don’t even address the same problems.
The money spent on ICE, can be used to enforce regulations. The wealthy don't like that, and would prefer us to focus on bullying the little people. It wastes our time and attention, so that genuine criminals can get away with casual crimes. In the US, the largest form of theft is wage theft, and I would argue that paying migrants below minimum wage is also theft.
While there will always be a need for some sort of physical authority, we can probably cut 90% of physical agencies, and use that budget for more useful things. For example, mental health outtreach programs that provide free therapy, genuine shelter and food without strings for the homeless, and so forth.
That is why if there are any physical enforcement, agencies need to have very specific missions, tight rules, and to be built from the ground up for the purpose. The majority of police in America were originally slave catchers, but became what we call police over the centuries. That brutal character inherently poisoned our physical enforcement institutions. Outright deleting ICE and other existing agencies, and then building new ones without legacy personnel, would promote peace.
While I would agree ICE and most police agencies need a thorough cleansing to purge them of racists, we can’t just get rid of 90% of them and start from scratch. That’s too big a transition. It needs to be done gradually to ensure se always have a police force and some form of illegal immigration deterrence.
I obviously do think we should be taxing the crap out of corporations. The top 1% isn’t really individual rich people, but the corporations they own. I would also advocate ending “corporate personhood.” That would be a big step in the right direction, as would reversing the Citizens United ruling or better yet, passing a law that makes it moot.
We can start from scratch - kill one department and replace it at a time. We probably could hire from Finland and other countries abroad to start clean-sheet academies to raise our first decade or so of officers. They put a great deal of effort and time into training their police, and we can pay them for services rendered. Finland might appreciate our supply of MRAPs and other surplus military gear, considering who they share borders with.
LOL, you want to hire foreign police to replace entire PDs in America? And how do you think Americans would feel about being policed by foreigners? Hell, what makes you think foreigners would want to police Americans? Please, name me one historical instance of this working, let alone having happened.
It would be one thing to take cues from European police forces to change the culture and tactics of American police forces, which I would totally support, but actually bringing foreign cops here to replace American cops? No way. Not a chance in hell that would work.
The large amount of foreign nationals being exploited due to their illegal status and working in unsafe underpaid jobs is something I'm against from a pro labor position.
The employees who hire and exploit them need to be punished. Who will do this job for the tiny wages? I guess nobody, the wages must go up. More expensive avocados is what we need to settle for, instead of exploiting desperate foreign nationals. There are no easy painless solutions here.
Maybe I am naive in thinking ICE is going after the criminal element that exists in the illegal immigrant community.
Fine, but how does rounding them up and deporting them solve this problem?
Again, how do ICE strategies solve this problem?
You are. The criminal element in migrant communities is tiny, and the notion that ICE is prioritizing them is bupkis. ICE is sadly comprised mainly of American racists, who use their job titles as a shield for implementing their White nationalist agendas. These aren’t people who are doing what they claim to be doing—protecting our borders against illegal invaders—they’re just trying to keep America’s birth rate mostly White, because they’re scared, xenophobic assholes.
As an American, I fully oppose these douchebags. America is not a White nation. We’re a non-racial nation, made up of everyone, home to everyone, and better for it. Our best quality is the fact that we welcome everyone, and those amongst us who oppose that are the true anti-Americans. Our history is a shit-show, true; but our ideals are worth fighting for. And the people that are anti-immigration are pro-racism, pure and simple.
You are.
Because the current purge is rooted in racism, not legality. They're deporting American citizens and people who are here legally as well without due process, blatantly violating the constitution which he swore to defend and uphold.
Trump wants to deport anyone he doesn't like, which includes anyone that doesn't like him. Make no mistake, he would deport half the country if he felt he could get away with it. He has no regard for the rule of law and has proven that time and again. What he is doing is tyranny and the real patriots are out there standing up against it.
The state defines what an "illegal immigrant" is. Why should I agree with their definition of an illegal immigrant is?
The Nazis were just rounding up illegal Jews. Why was it so bad that they rounded up illegal Jews?
The plantation owners just wanted to own Black people. Black people had no rights, so what's the problem with owning them?
Do not conflate legality with morality.
Because they're revoking legal status from legal immigrants and arresting legal immigrants and its only a matter of time til they deport citizens too
Every study I've seen shows illegal immigrants to be a net positive to the economy, while at the same being responsible for fewer crimes than papered immigrants or regular citizens. I wonder why people are willing to go through such social pain and stupidity to attack them. I mean, aside from racism. We should be working on smoothing the way to citizenship, or at a minimum, legality. That would help address the exploitation that takes place (as you mentioned in another post). On a tangent, we really need to do something about universal health care, housing, and the shitty, hateful state of wages in the country while we are at it.
We have a myriad of fundamental problems in this country, illegal immigrants are just a distraction that get the low-information voters fired up and ignoring the real problems.
I think that universal healthcare would be the key to ending undocumented immigration, and more importantly, wage evasion by employers. It is simple: documented immigrants get free healthcare, the same as any citizen. This would allow the state(s) to track the workplace activity of immigrants, and in turn be able to collect taxes, enforce fair wages, and hold businesses accountable.
This also has the effect of allowing citizens to have equal job opportunities when compared to migrants, because both are paid the same. Companies will naturally turn to hiring citizens, simply because they are closer to home. Everyone who isn't a ghoul wins.
because they arnt targeting "illegal immigrants" its random people, and also immigrants that are here legally, plus they are specifically only targeting non-republican areas because they know blue areas are less likely to fight back and are unarmed. oh and they wont target places like meat packing plants, FARMS, republican, gop will raise hell if they were raided in congress.