Why do Americans want to know the month first and the day second?
I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense TO ME. Based on what I was taught, regardless of the month, I think what matters first is to know what day of the month you are in, if at the beginning, in the middle or at the end of said month. After you know that, you can find out the month to know where you are in the year.
What is the benefit of doing it the other way around?
EDIT: To avoid misunderstandings:
- I am NOT making fun OF ANYONE.
- I am NOT negatively judging ANYTHING.
- I am totally open to being corrected and LEARN.
- This post is out of pure and honest CURIOSITY.
So PLEASE, don't take it the wrong way.
106
Comments121
Historically, I don't know, but personally, I prefer YYYY-MM-DD style dates since they sort naturally in basically all computer software without having to think about it.
ISO 8601 rules!
RFC 3339 is where it's at
Free sorting is always the way to go.
Anyone who doesn't use ISO 8601 is wrong.
FACTS
No. RFC 2822 (short format) is also great. “20 Mar 2025”
Until you try to sort your log files alphabetically.
This is for display, not data processing.
Also guess what, journalctl formats date like "May 21 00:48:56" (probably according to system locale). Why would you sort your log files alphabetically? They should already be in chronological order.
no letters! Go away letters!
Wrong
this is terrible
There are plenty of other scenarios with a similar pattern of starting at the larger scale and then the specific.
TV shows: Season 2 Episode 9
Theatre: Act one, scene 3
Biblical: Book of John 3:16
Other books: Chapter 9, page 125.
Address: 123 Main St, Apt #2
Phone numbers: country code (area code) locality-individual
I'm not saying either is right or wrong, but there are precedents for either way.
Perhaps the most relevant of all: time of day. 9:30. Hours first, then minutes. I'm not from a location that does month-day ordering, but I think largest to smallest works excellently for time measurement, hence ISO 8601.
I'm surprised I didn't even think of that. It's so obvious!
Which I would say as "Half past nine".
9:30 and 21:30, please
2-123 Main St, City, Province, Country
I'm guessing, but it's likely because the spoken form for a date is normally, 'May 31st, 2025" vs "The 31st of May, 2025", hence 05/31/25 v 31/05/25.
I once did some research on this exact topic, and my findings pretty much mirror your guess.
Not for me, e.g. "remember, remember the fifth of November" is how we remember the date of Guy Fawkes Night in the UK. "Fourth of July", "14th of February", "First of April", etc.
I guess you mean in the States, but perhaps they say it that way because they write their dates M-D-Y.
So, by the time someone in the UK has finished saying the day and "of," an American has said the month and day.
The US is finally more efficient!
Except other languages beat English.
Germans just say the numbers. For example, today is the 31st 5th. Who needs the month name anyways?
There go the Germans trying to beat everyone again.
That's only useful for the current date, or dates within your current month. Otherwise this is worthless information haha.
"When was Archduke Franz Ferdinand assassinated?"
"The 28th."
I'm a fan of ISO-8601 which is YYYY-MM-DD. When context is known, dropping the year on something is fine (i.e. if I post a schedule saying 'summer 2025 schedule', I don't need to start every date on it with 2025). Japanese does this as well (and I think Chinese and Korean, but someone is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong there).
If the year and month are already known, just using the day is fine as well (a calendar doesn't write the full date in every square). Having it in that order makes sense to me.
MM-DD-YYYY is right out, though, so I only agree with the 'muricans on the MM-DD part.
Same. Keeps my reports nice and organized.
Whoo. ISO-8601 fan club. Its so much easier for computers to sort dates in that format. I insist on using it for documents at work and Excel even handles it better with less formatting issues. I do wish they covered it in schools earlier, its neat, logical and works best when everyone is on the same page.
Canada's government has this standard, YYYY-MM-DD, but even they are inconsistent.
The rest of Canada often follows America's MM-DD-YYYY.
It's the inconsistency that's ridiculous.
Be the change you want to see. I use month names or ISO 8601 in anything written, have been for a year to the point where using month names is more accidental than anything else. If anyone asks, I mention it's government standard. Hopefully, the ambiguous date forms die out faster than the Imperial system.
I'm sure the history is that, for most daily purposes, it was useful to know both. Knowing the larger element (the month) first sets the context for the smaller detail. For instance, saying I met someone for dinner on December 12 gives you the broader context (e.g. the season, possible relevant events) before the smaller detail of the day.
I think of it as, if you got shot halfway through telling me the date of something, "December" on its own is more useful information than "12". Technically, "12" narrows it down to fewer possible dates, but it could be at any time of year, while December only happens once a year, in March or whatever.
That explains it, getting shot halfway through a sentence is far less likely outside America.
I does make more sense if you put it that way.
Every digital clock displays hours:minutes:seconds. Largest to smallest. I see no reason not to follow the same pattern with the date year/month/day.
This is also how my phone time stamps a photo - year/month/day/hours/minutes/seconds.
This seems very logical to me.
Everybody says this, but I keep seeing mm/dd/yyyy from north American sources, and dd/mm/yyyy from pretty much everywhere else.
Why are we stupid
In hungary we use yy/mm/dd
And AFAIK estonia, china, japan and mongolia too
We read left to right.
Hour left makes sense as hour is very important to know, many times for important than the minutes.
With dates year is usually not that important to know, and day/month became much more important to know in a daily basis. So they get a preference.
For instance, a doctor gives you an appointment on 2025-07-25. The first thing you read is 2025, which os not very important as the day and month, as you could already assume the day. A date on 25-07-2025 gives you important information sooner.
I agree but my appointment is three months from now, so knowing that it isn't this month is more important than knowing the day of the month first.
Is it honestly more common to have something in another month than the current one?
yes.
my last 5 dr appts have been at least 2 months out, sometimes up to 8 months.
I can live with getting that important information a half second later.
Spoken language is already inefficient, which is why we use so many shortcuts in it. If I'm texting someone about an upcoming event, I might also just use the day of the month or the weekday (wings on Fri?). But if I'm writing an email, signing a document, or doing something else that might be referenced weeks, months, or years in the future, ISO 8601 is the way to go.
In normal conversation, it's more common (at least here) to say "May 31st" than "the 31st of May." I think the order of the numerical only dating system is just reflecting that.
Then why "fourth of July"?
Because English isn't allowed to be consistent.
Probably specifically to stress that it is A Special Day and not just july fourth
I suspect that when the holiday was getting going, it was spread by music, and "July 4th" doesn't carry the lyric .... Utility of "fourth of July"
The phrase "Born on, the fourth of, July!" Is buried in my consciousness but I can't name the song or any other lines to go with it.
Then again, you also write $5 but say it five dollars. The way something is said can be different from how it is written.
Sure, but the $ is signifying the following numbers refer to money. And people can write it differently than they say it. I will say "June 1st" much, much more often than "the 1st of June", but I will also almost always write it "01 June ".
But the reason it is much more common in the USA to write dates as "June 1, " is because that is how it is often spoken here. That doesn't need to be consistent across other speech and writing patterns, it's just how it developed. Probably goes back to the printing press like a lot of the other oddities in writing here...
The French, at least in Canada, put the currency symbol after the number.
I personally prefer yyyy-mm-dd, as the Japanese do, which also puts month before day. I think it's because they tend to prioritize history, so that makes sense. Year gives a historical context, month gives the season, while day is kind of arbitrary when talking about historical events. Day will matter most if I'm making short term plans, though, so I certainly see the appeal for day to day life.
Depending on what you're doing, one will matter more. Precision matters more the more fine tuned the situation.
Think of it like hours vs minutes vs seconds. If I'm just thinking vaguely about the time of day, hour gives me most of the context. If I'm meeting someone or baking cookies, minutes matter a lot more but seconds is a bit too specific. If I'm defusing a bomb? Seconds matter.
You can also sort files named using this format alphabetically and they'll still be chronologically correct.
That's the ISO-8601 format, Japan uses "/" or alternatively yyyy年mm月dd日
Yeah I know it by the latter but didn't try to type it out on this phone, lol
Because the month tells me more about how far in the future something is. If I have an appointment on the 12th of July, there's not much information in knowing it's on the 12th. 12th of what? But it's in July, so between 1 and 2 months in the future. If I need more info, then I'll pay attention to the day. So in order of information given.
Historical dates are similar, except I really just need (roughly) the year, and then a month if that's relevant. Knowing the exact date of a historical event is just showing off. But if you know the month, you know what season it was, what the weather was probably like. Was it planting/growing/harvest time? You can guess at a lot of things with just the month.
Perhaps because where I live there are no seasons in the same way as in the United States, knowing the month doesn't matter to us unless we work in the fields, here there are only months of sun and months of rain.
Yeah that makes sense then. I live in Minnesota and the seasons definitely matter here. Every 3 months will be a completely different drastic changes to temperature, weather, etc. So for planning, the month definitely matters and I think it makes more sense for us to say it first.
Not that it really matters that much haha.
Sure, but if I tell you the month, you still know what part of the year it is. If it's sunny, or if it's rainy must mean something to you.
Mmm not so much. I prefer to know on the first day so, for example, how close I am to payday, which is every two weeks. I don't care that much about months other than December since I finished college.
It's more efficient to say June 1st. I suppose you could say 1st June though. Not sure if anyone does that.
It's inherited from a historic convention from the UK. Historically the rationale was that the month was more important than the year, so they put it first, although this has no useful consistency or order to it.
Unfortunately, kind of dumb decisions from the past tend to stick and keep existing for an unnecessary long time because people get used to them and then never change them. Popularity or habit can beat reason, objectivity etc...
I wish that myth would die. If that was the case then E and R would be furthER away from each othER because being right next to each othER would make it likely for the two lettERs to bump into each othER.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY
Interesting. Thanks! I genuinely believed that myth was true.
Thanks, didn't know. It's indeed a well-established myth then. Corrected my post.
The QWERTY keyboard was designed to speed typing up, not slow it down
sauce?
Here's just one, and there are many. What you cited above doesn't contradict what I said either...my point is it wasn't created to intentionally slow typing down
that just says there's no evidence for the apocryphal theory of it slowing typing down, not what you said about speeding it up. plus "slows it down" is a corruption of the original apocryphal idea that it speeds up typewriting by preventing jams due to neighboring keys being pressed
Damn you're right. In many respects, habit overcomes reason.
That's an apocryphal explanation for QWERTY's design. I personally doubt it since "a" and "s" are placed right next to each other. Additionally, placing keys further apart doesn't mean they're slower to type. (In fact, anecdotally, it can be the opposite. In piano, incorrect fingering disproportionately affects playing keys that are right next to each other.)
That seems to suggest that the American style is a preservation of the older English format, much like we kept spelling of some words like the original English at colonization while the UK gradually changed with other influences around them.
Because fuck you, that’s why
Why do you use 60 seconds in a minute and not an even 100? Why use randomly sized calendar months? Why do you say doce instead of diecidos?
Because 60 evenly divides into halves, thirds, fifths, sixths, etc, and because it's impossible to divide 365.2425 days into 12 months of equal length.
I'm a fan of 12 months of 30 with a 5 day new years in between
Ooh ooh I know whe calander one. 2 or 3 roman empowers were so up their own arse they added there names to the calander. Augustus being the only one I remember off the top of my head. In order to make them fit they shortened other months.
Isn't this also why September is not the 7th month, and October is not the 8th month?
Yeh. They stuffed em in random places each time I'm sure it made sense at the time
They renamed mens quintembris and mens sextembris to July and August. Originally, The Roman year started on the spring equinox at 1 March, and September–December were indeed the 7^th—10^th month of their year. Spring equinox shifted over the centuries due to an incorrectly calculated length of the year. I forgot why they shifted New Year to 1 January and who did this.
The first two are true that they don't make any sense, but the "Diecidos" is because it sounds horrible.
In any case, you understand why conventions exist and persist despite imperfection
Legacy reasons
That's it
As an American I'm not really a fan of it mainly because it's different from the World standard. We are the only country that insists on doing it different. It would not be hard to change either. I would love for it to change but it's not something I'm putting a lot of time or thought into right now.
When you speak it, do you say July 3rd or 3rd of July? Both are fine.
In America we only say July third or FOURTH OF JULY
Perfect:
7/2/'25
7/3/'25
4/7/'25
7/5/'25
7/6/'25
I find that just to be because we are emphasizing the day over the month there. It isn't independence month, it's independence day.
It just comes from the UK like most of our shit does. The papers that were coming from there in the 1700s when we gained our independence said month, day, year. We stuck with it. The Units came from there as well and we only modified them to keep a standard. Then we tried to go full metric, and Ronald Reagan killed it.
That said if people are talking nonsense at a table at the bar or lunch and someone asks when you were born, they are usually expecting you to say "September" or "1949". If they ask how old are you, they are expecting "47.". Everything usually has context. Because usually someone only asks those questions if one they are talking about Astrological signs, or they are thinking that one age is better than another. To old to young nonsense.
My reply was only silly nonsense kicked off when I said Third of July in my head.
I speak speak Spanish, so we just say "Primero de Julio" (1st of July)" an then "Dos/tres/quince de Julio" (Two/three/fifteen of July). An of course, all are perfectly fine.
3rd of July, as I'm used to by the german 'dritter Juli'
They say it "June 1st", as opposed to "1st of June", so it makes sense to write it that way. That, mate, was a hard lesson to learn for me lol.
I was taught DD/MM/YY and that's what I use in typed form, but I prefer MM/DD/YYYY, at least in speech e.g. 'June 13th 2025'. It feels cleaner to narrow by month, then day, otherwise you're mentally having to wait for context, working backwards. The year is almost irrelevant as it changes so infrequently, about once a year.
ISO 8601 for organising on a computer, as sorting by largest to smallest is the most logical.
I completely agree with you.
I wondered whether maybe the us americans had continued using the old style and it was Britain that changed, but no: Britain appears to have been using the day-month-year order since medieval times. This latin letter from William Wallace from 1297 has that order: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Lubeck_Letter
*Given at Haddington in Scotland on the eleventh day of October in the Year of Grace one thousand two hundred and ninety seven. *
The latin line with the date starts with "datum".
I think it was a 18th century British fad that spread to America - for example, look at the date on this London newspaper from 1734:
- in the text it does also use the other format about "last month", however.
It didn't make it into legal documents / laws, which still used the more traditional format like: "That from and after the Tenth Day of April, One thousand seven hundred and ten ...". However, the American Revolution effectively froze many British fashions from that point-in-time in place (as another example, see speaking English without the trap/bath split, which was a subsequent trend in the commonwealth).
The fad eventually died out and most of the world went back to the more traditional format, but it persisted in the USA.
Great find.
I checked a few other historic front pages on Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_oldest_newspapers The Oxford Gazette from 1665 used the same month-day format. The first edition from The Guardian from 1821 also used it. Some British news papers like The Times never stopped using it, while The Guardian is now using day-month. So it was the British after all.
The US is the only one to do many stupid things, like imperial units
Linguistics
In UK English, it's considered proper to write "the 6th of March" as "6 March" and sometimes read as "6th March" which can be jarring to Americans as their shorthand is "March 6th" and when "6(th) March" is encountered in written form, it's expanded to the full "6th of March" when spoken
That doesn't mean this won't be yet another feature American English absorbs from UK English but right now flipping them in speech requires a few extra syllables and people are lazy
Kinda relatable ngl 😅
and also location names in Chinese are like "United States, D.C., Pennsylvania Avenue NW, № 1600" or "87104, United States, New Mexico, Albuquerque, Negra Arroyo Lane, № 308"
I mean that also makes sense, year-month-day. The other way of course is day-month-year, also logical, those two are in ascending or descending order.
And then there is the American month-day-year.
🫠
Many computer systems store dates starting with the year. Isn't that interesting?
We don't want or care about it. Its just the way its always been over here. Same with fahrenheit and the imperial system. I know this is a little exaggerated but imagine asking a Japanese person why they dont just speak english because its the worlds most spoken language. Its one of those things other countries like to pick on us for that I think is a little stupid. Instead you should be dunking on us for putting an orange party clown in the whitehouse. Again. But then again there are some exploitative processes that helped make that happen like gerrymandering. My point is that our shit healthcare and the majority of the things that we are laughed at for is out of our hands. Even the fat jokes can be somewhat blamed on the fact that the availabilty of cheap unhealthy food with a large portion size is greater than pricier organic options and lots of the poor tend to take that route. I'm not saying our majority is completely blameless but these are factors to consider.
Edit: following your Edit: thank you for the clarification
I... I wasn't dunking of anyone, I'm just curious...
Its all good if you weren't others would no doubt show up and begin the dunking so this is more for them than you
All display of time should follow this format:
I much prefer:
I don't think there's any real logic behind it other than the founders of our nation post the war of independence did not want to have any real similarities between America and Britain.
It would make sense if they were going YYYY/MM/DD. But they literally do MM/DD/YYYY
WTF
What's your birthday? When saying it, do you start with the year?
I am pro-ISO 8601 but I see how MMDDYYYY could be tempting to Murca
The Chinese do.
What gets me with this date format, is I'm just a random person on the internet and I could be anywhere and I tell you the date is 03/04/2025.
DD/MM/YYYY format exists too, so is it April third or is it March fourth?
I say June 2nd of 2025
I type 2025-06-02
Handwritten it's 2-June-2025
I'm from before 2000 and the turn to years being so small broke me, it used to be so clear which number was the year with just 2 digits, and day, month, year is sorting from smallest unit to biggest, it has logic. But then for awhile you could have a 04, an 05, and an 06 and I was working with other countries, it wasn't at all clear which was year month or day, so I started sandwiching the month in the middle as a word when handwriting dates and using 4 digit year, and year month day sorts like a dream for filenames.
Context clues.
Why do you care? There are so many other cultural differences to highlight, history and music and art that only exist overseas, hundreds of millions of people with the same dreams and ambitions you have. Why on earth would you focus on something so trivial?
... Curiosity? Some interesting things are hidden in the most trivial information.
The month first is best because consider what happens if a message gets cut off. You might get: "You'll be flying to New York on the first of ..." or "You'll be flying to New York on June..."
The first message doesn't tell you anything useful. Do you need to buy shorts or a parka? Do you have months to prepare or are you leaving in a few hours? Could this be an april fools joke? It's a 1/12 chance. Totally useless.
Second message, sure the details are unclear but at least you know what to pack and that you need to hurry about getting the rest of the message.
For no other reason than to be different and contrary. Metric system anyone?
Are you saying we Americans do things in objectively worse ways, just to remind everyone what we have the freedom to be confidently wrong?
Because I can confidently tell you there's no examples of us doing that. (This is sarcasm, intended to amuse you.)