SHOCK POLL: AOC a Close Second Place Behind Kamala Harris in 2028 Democratic Primary
https://www.mediaite.com/news/shock-poll-aoc-a-close-second-place-behind-kamala-harris-in-2028-democratic-primary/Open linkView original on lemmy.world1100
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If Harris was a leader she would be out there touring like AOC. Shes not a leader. She had her shot to prove otherwise and didn't.
I mean, if I were her I’d feel drained and devastated. Everything that happened during the election and people still picked Trump over her…
I have a hard time feeling sorry for her after leaving the left hanging and going after conservative votes. She made an incredibly poor strategic choice and it cost all of us.
Obviously she's not the only one to blame here, conservatives deserving the majority of blame followed by people that stayed home, but she doesn't deserve pity.
… not to mention she didn’t ask for a recount. That one was a red flag for me.
A recount requires a vote to be close, it wasn’t. Trump won every swing state. And with the margins he won by, every recount in the world would not overcome the 86 EVs she trailed by.
The election results were very close - and it was a big election, some ballots were rejected, there were bomb threats and there were also statistical anomalies. She should have asked for a recount.
Pity maybe not, but understanding definitely. If that were me ya'll picked Trump over I'd tell all ya'll to fuck right off while I prep a boat to Europe. Then all the people saying I should stay out of it would be bitching that I'm not participating anymore.
Exactly. If I were her, I'd fuck off to Europe and send a big fat middle finger to everyone asking for help.
Is that in the best interests of the American people? No. Is it an entirely understandable reaction? Yes.
Sending a big fat middle finger to everyone asking for help was basically her campaign.
Europe would be the worst pick for Harris. Maybe the Philippines or other thinly disguised police state.
So just half of Europe?
Yeah. I have a lot of problems with Kamala The Cop. But she lost what might be the final election in American History. That takes a lot out of you
Not as much as it’s taking out of the rest of us, not even close.
If I were her, I would have had a plan B knowing what the right wingers were up to, and it should have looked a lot like what Bernie and AOC are doing. Instead she showed up then fucked off to somewhere else after hanging out with Dick Cheney for a few months.
Drained and devastated but willing to lose again? Spray this turd down the drain of your empathy and out of a leadership roll.
You feel sorry for that god awful campaign?
Exactly why she's not a leader. A leader understand that you don't have time to lick you wounds when the enemy is at your door. She should be fighting harder now, not sulking.
So she should be all recovered by '28 then? /s
If she's still drained and devastated months after losing, she's not emotionally mature enough to be president. What's going to happen the first time a soldier gets killed in combat? At least Hillary has some cajones, Harris never gave me that impression.
Hillary had years of experience on the federal level. Senator and then Head of State. She was used to making choices that had a big impact.
I will always remember Harris for her DNC nomination debate performance. She personally called out Biden's racist policies and how it impacted her. Showing that out of touch white men have lasting impacts on generations children. It was her highest moment. If you check articles they'll say that was one of the highlights of the event.
And then became Biden's VP. Just willing to ignore how he personally wrote a racist bill that harmed you because it's a position of power? Alright. That's sure a message about your morals.
And when asked about why by Steven Colbert: "It was a debate!"
They cheated, and we ALL know it. If she's upset about anything, it's that she was cheated out of her historic legacy, and the spineless Democratic party backed HitlerPig over her.
If she were out there touring people would tell her to shut up and sit down. She had her shot, twice, nobody wants what she's selling.
Is she even considering running at all?
Completely agree. It would have demonstrated that she would have been a good president and it would have sealed the deal for her (if there are legit elections). She didn’t step up. AOC did. Says a lot about each of them.
Like when she was up there giving her chatgpt, "make me sound inspirational" concession speech rather than just being mad as hell like the rest of us. She's plays leader but she will sit in the manager cubical while the rest of us eat the company provided cold turkey in the break room the day before Thanksgiving.
I can't imagine thinking about "serving people" when majority of them turned out to be hateful idiots that frankly deserve getting their faces eaten by a leopard. Let her catch a break maybe?
The Dipshit didn't even get the majority of people who did vote, let alone the country as a whole
Nah, I'm not giving her a break. She handed the elction to Trump on a silver platter. It should have been a slam dunk election, but she chose genocide, money, and the Cheney's over winning.
Ah the good ol american responsibility deflection strategy
How is accurately describing what happened "deflection"?
a bad carpenter blames their tools.
Usual: If you voted 3rd party or didn't vote, you signed off on our current reality.
But you're not wrong, and I have plenty to disagree with AOC about, but they're all conversations for a better time; done and done.
Nope. I voted 3rd party because I didn't want Trump, and I also didn't want Harris. Maybe if Harris had tried campaining on what Americans wanted, rather than trying to win over people who were obviously not going to vote for her, we wouldn't be here.
But she chose genocide, money, and the Cheneys over winning an election against one of the least popular presidents we've ever had.
Nah, 3rd party voters at least voted. This solely lies on the folks who didn't vote.
No.
If you voted 3rd party in a FPTP election, you are functionally indistinguishable from a non-voter. You can talk about your principles all you want, but by the mechanics of the electoral system you are exactly equivalent to a non-voter.
Yeah fuck people who help dems win local elections and ballot measures! Those things aren’t real! Everyone knows the house and senate don’t matter! And neither do state legislatures! Fuck those stupid things that don’t affect anyone, it’s all about voting for the guy you think is going to win, not the one you want! Or, idk whatever you dems go on about.
Let’s keep attacking progressive voter base like the DNC wants! Let’s keep alienating them more! It will be a good idea THIS time! It worked so well that’s why 2016 was our best year! Way better than 2008 when we didn’t actively attack them! If we don’t ensure politics is voting against the one you hate most how will we keep all those non-voters at home, keep money in politics, and keep those oligarchs happy!
A histrionic straw man.
Exactly the opposite of reality. FPTP does not preclude third parties from winning, hence the existence of the republican party. It does mean you have to vote your principles and not strategically vote. If everyone voted for the party that most closely aligned with their principles, neither the Dems or repubs would ever wing the presidency and would never hold a majority in any Congress at any level.
Incorrect. I can justify any number of results with such a monumental "if". Any strategy based on such a large number of people suddenly changing their voting tendency in such a way is unworkable. As one party splinters, the other is heavily incentivized to stay together and easily win. It's a game of chicken; the first party to break ranks is doomed. People understand this on an intuitive, tribalistic level. Fracturing the less monolithic party will only strengthen the more monolithic one. That is reality.
Without organization sufficient to convince at least a third of the country that a specific party is viable, you cannot beat a strategic party with principles alone.
Hard disagree, as again, the republican party exists. It was a third party.
Practically no one votes strategically. The vast majority of voters vote the same as their parents and/or peers. The extreme minority of voters that care about issues vote for whatever party of the two that suits them best at the time.
But bigger than all these groups are the eligible voters that think nothing will change because people like you tell them they only have two options, so they don't vote.
Because neither option is good. There is Nazi, and there is the group that appoints nazis. Both exist solely for their own power and wealth. Neither help people until the riots get too violent. So why vote. Why care?
So either we introduce a third party or more, and maybe give some hope, or we let the uniparty continue to win and we all have to survive a balkanized US when it collapses.
You're talking to someone who was vehemently campaigning for her during the general. She didn't fail any purity test. She failed at having a good strategy, and it was pretty obvious at the time she was making a big gamble. And I articulated this during the election, while telling all the 3rd party voters on lemmy that they were fucking morons.
imagine being so dumb to think it's bait.
Kamala is trash, simple as. She failed horrendously.
Only a shock to folks who still think Democrat centerists are what's gonna win the votes
"We want to maintain the status quo that led to the election of Trump twice!"
Exactly! It's just... why?
Because no matter who is in office they're still part of the enrichment scheme that is our government. They don't really care who wins or loses because it doesn't really affect them.
That's why it's important to be represented by the marginalized so that the decisions actually matter to the people making them.
I read it as "it's a shock that she came in second" lol
I will vote for AOC with pride. But I'm leery about running another woman right now. Neither Hillary nor Kamala could win against Trump.
That said, I can't think of anyone I'd be happier to vote for. I dream of her being President. I don't know if swing states will have it, but I would fight to make it so.
Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. There's no statistical difference in the chances of victory between men and women when running for political office. Lots of Republican politicians are women. I don't see it as a big deal.
Also, lots of open racists voted for Obama. If you look at the polling and the interviews, it was much more about running conservative Democrats trying to get the votes of people who wanted to shake things up. That's what Obama promised, that's why Sanders would've won, by some measures, and it seems AOC is out there generating the same buzz.
It's only a deal because the democratic party is willing to hold back all women just to prevent the success of one progressive woman.
Hillary and Kamala were awful candidates - they wouldn't have won if they were men or if it were the first coming of Christ. (I'm skeptical he ever arrived at all). The DNC is the blame for their failure. Hillary was out of touch. Kamala had too many issues to list.
All that aside, they would have presidented circles around Trump.
Maybe because Hillary and Kamala were terrible candidates? Are you kidding me?
...that we're talking about a progressive woman.
Exactly zero people who voted for trump last election will vote for a non-white woman.
Country is fucked.
I'm a huge AOC supporter, but she should wait a 2 or 3 cycles (if there are any cycles anymore). I'd rather see her take Schumer's senate seat, and serve there for a term or two first, and succeed Bernie as the Senate's progressive leader.
A Democratic centrist literally polled at #1. It's in the headline.
Needs a little Asterisk* next to centrist and a footnote
*still way further left than any Republican
AOC is a progressive. Harris was too, prior to her role as VP.
She ran with Progressive planks, but she was a DA. She's a cop. Cops aren't progressive.
Yea harris is far from a progressive. She kept people in jail for bullshit marijuana charges.
And as we all know....
Repeat after me kids
All Cops Are Bastards
Attorneys aren't cops. Can we stop with the right wing smear campaign?
District Attorneys work for cops and for the interest of the government. They're worse than cops... They empower, protect, and exonerate cops.
This isn't a right wing smear, it's a reality check for libs still clutching their pearls over their shitty candidate.
And yet, the cops hated her...
Cops are not progressive, they protect the interests of the state, not it's people
She ran on exactly the same thing as Biden and backtracked on everything progressive she said in previous campaigns.
I'm shocked that Harris is in first place...
The fact that Kamala is even going to try to run again shows how fucked that party is.
Why is Harris even mentioned? She should disappear like Hillary.
Nobody wants this person to run again.
Anyone doing a poll would be negligent not to include the previous nominee and former vice president. That's not to imply she's a good choice, only that she's an obvious choice.
Good point 👍
Anecdotally, my sister does. I was baffled when she said it and had to try my best to respond politely, because she's the only other person in my family who isn't a Republican.
From my perspective, she bombed out of 2020 despite being a media darling cast as the frontrunner, and then was just handed the nomination in 2024 without a real primary and still lost, both of which demonstrate she has terrible political instincts and isn't popular enough to win. From her perspective, the fact that she dropped out in 2020 before any votes were casts means she was never given a fair chance, and the fact that she was handed the nomination meant she didn't have enough time to make her case and the unusual circumstances are what caused her to lose, and if she just had another chance she'd nail it.
I'm pretty sure she's an outlier though and most people are just saying Kamala because of name recognition.
I'm fine with her running in a Primary.
This bro lives in a bubble with steel plating.
Nah, thats you.
A lot more people show up to listen to people like AOC. Harris is MIA.
Get out of your bubble
A crowd of 30,000 in a metropolitan area of 3 Million people. We don't need our best to draw the biggest crowds we need them to get the most votes.
Harris polls in 1st place
Lemmy Leftists: "no one wants Harris!"
Y'all are in a bubble.
Harvard poll: 72% of Dem voters prefer more left-leaning candidates like Sanders and AOC over moderates like Harris.
Lemmy Leftists: Yes.
Cryophilia: Y'all are in a bubble.
Unfortunately that poll had some very loaded wording in it that doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion it's trying to present
From page 20:
72% of Democratic voters answered "yes".
Go ahead and point out this alleged "loaded wording".
You don't see it?
You're assuming that because they want more candidates to obstruct the current administration, that they would also prefer those candidates and throw actual policies in every other situation.
Because they mixed progressive and opposing the admin together in one question, you can't tell which part is really what they're agreeing with.
Using this specific question to claim they want more progressive candidates is futile. This is basic polling literacy stuff...
The problem is that you think people are too stupid to understand the question, and only you are smart enough to figure it out.
It's a basic question asking if people prefer Dems like AOC and Sanders, who have a more aggressive stance against Trump, over moderate Dems who will compromise with Trump. It's very straightforward.
Nowhere did I imply I was the only one who could understand it. What i did say was that the was this was worded could not be taken to mean the same as the stripped down version you presented.
Half of Americans read at or below a 6th grade level. This is NOT a straightforward question in the way you're claiming. In case you haven't been paying attention, this country is full of absolute morons who continue to vote against their own interests because of some memes on the Internet...
Harris is guaranteed to lose 2028 if she is somehow the dem nominee instead of the republican nominee. There aren't enough right wingers willing to abandon the name republican to vote for her.
She just hasn't moved to the right enough yet! How many more cheneys are there? Any more minorities to break solidarity with?
We'll see how your fucking bubble turns out when the time comes. Harris couldnt even beat fucking Trump and you think she will win a primary? Batshit.
These are democratic primaries we're talking about.
One she already lost once. And was given the role without a vote the second time.
Exactly. As long as the nominee isn't progressive, they'll move heaven and earth to make sure our options are fascism and second worst to fascism. Regardless of who wins. The party prefers hereditary dictatorship headed by the trump family over a progressive in any seat for any length of time.
She has never won a Democratic primary in her life.
The same ones shes literally already lost before? Insane.
It's literally in the title. First place.
So she'll win a primary this time, right?
If the vote were right now, then according to this poll, yes
You delusional fucks are literally denying reality
This is why Kamala Harris famously won the 2020 nomination and went on to become president, because she was polling in first place before the campaign process started.
Famously was a strong contender across all of 2020 and won her home state easily!
Wait she fucking flopped in a sea of other milquetoast candidates, which is why they all dropped out before Super Tuesday to help Biden.
It's in the title, dude. First place.
The democratic party is cooked if it runs Kamala again. There is no way Kamala is running this high in the polls.
Why on earth would you run kamala again? The democrats can't afford to learn anymore lessons. School is out. Time to start producing.
Second place to Harris??? Holy fuck we deserve our fate.
Edit: upon reading the article (I know...) AOC has the best net favorability. So a little more hopium there.
Jfc here we fuckin go again. Lemme guess DNC, this will totally be an open primary right? Anyone can win?
Fucking morons never learn.
Oh they learn, the wrong lessons.
Welcome to American politics, when the 2028 election begins in 2024 and the 2028 primary began in 2020.
I'm so tired.
Who the fuck is thinking about 2028?!? I'm just trying to get out of 2024 alive.
No deets on methodology. “Of Democrats”. How many? Where? Registered Dems? Likely voters? 2024 voters?
It matters greatly. In the primaries, Obama was invisible to pollsters that were only looking at prior Dem voters. His support came mostly from first-timers and independents.
I'd vote for AOC over Kamala, 100%.
I mean, I still voted for Kamala, but I wasn't excited about it.
I hope we actually get a 2028 election
You guys still think there will be free elections in 2028?
Fuck Harris, we have no more time for right wing "liberals." She needs to get the fuck out of the way and progressives need to take charge
Why does the Democratic party have a hard on for running failed politicians? Kamala lost, let others step up. AOC would do great in the Dem Primaries
If only your drmocrat handlers let you vote for who you want and not for who they choose.
I will be shocked if the Dem establishment doesn't run Newsom and do their damndest to ratfuck AOC like they did with Bernie.
Sure, there's a lot of time between now and a theoretical 2028 presidential cycle...
But I have learned to set expectations pessimistically and be surprised in the optimism direction, not the other way around.
Newsom is demonstrating his willingness to sprint to the right.
The DNC will 100% try some ratfuckery to screw the left. Its the only consistent thing they ever do. They're doing it right now, even.
I would vote for Newsom...as President of the breakaway Republic of California
Hillary 2028!!
At this early stage when there isn't an obvious choice (like an incumbent or VP), this is really a measure of name recognition more than anything.
I don't know what the field is going to look like when the primaries roll around, but I highly doubt that Kamala will make it anywhere near the nomination again. She had her chance, she's extremely unlikely to get another one. The last time a Democrat got the nomination a second time after a loss was Adlai Stevenson in 1956, and he only got it because most of the other possible candidates stayed out of the race because they expected Eisenhower to win in a landslide.
Cory Booker talked all that time for nothing
I’ll take it over the other folks on Capitol Hill that are doing absolutely nothing. People need to make noise.
It was impressive, and not only because fuck Strom Thurmond, but I figured he’d get kind of a bump from it.
I mean, Trumps polls are going down, more people are showing up to protest, more institutions are resisting.
Every act of public resistance emboldens more people to fight back. I’ll take it.
Cory is probably aiming for Schumer’s position.
AOC + Booker?
No way a Senator would run under a Representative.
That actually sounds totally normal for Americans. We are fucking awful.
By the time a VP is being chosen, she wouldn't be "a rep", she'd be the Democratic nominee for president a.k.a. the most important Democratic politician in the country.
Or it can be the other way around.
That's be an interesting ticket. I would like to see AOC primary against Schumer though.
yeah, zero interest in supporting kamala "keep arming isreal" fucking harris again.
We're 2.5-3 years away from the primary race even starting, and 3+ years away from the convention. This poll means absolutely nothing at this point.
Yeah okay pack it in boys, we're screwed lol.
Why even bother to run a primary at this point? Just let the DNC select their candidate so we can skip out on the 6 months of sham and shilling.
::: spoiler spoiler Also told all yall we need progressives to split from DNC and form a fresh 3rd party bruh. :::
Ok look I voted for Kamala but if a candidate fails can we please run someone one else? You don't run the same person over again because the same people who felt like she was forced down their throats are still going feel like she's being forced down their throats.
And the same bs that was used against her will be used again. But people eat yhay shit up which is why it works.
And her tactics of bring out appealing to Republicans again is probably whay she'll do again and that's going to lose more dem voters.
The corporate Dems need to go away.
Screw Harris.
Stop with this shit. It's 2025. This is stupid.
Women can't be president in America. We have a shitty culture that prevents that from happening. We keep trying, we keep failing. If you want to win, find another candidate with a dick. That's a requirement in America. Not saying I like it. Just saying that's reality.
LOL. still not moving? chuck schumer and nancy still doing their thing? that is not a real democracy.
Where the fuck has Harris been this whole time? How has she remained relevant? WTF is wrong with the DNC (gestures wildly at all their dumb shit)?
so people think that AOC or Harris is going to win in this very racist/sexist country we are in? Guess it will be Trump again.
What??? Why is Kamala still in the running AT ALL?!?! jesus fucking christ.
As others have said, if Harris was out there doing what Bernie and AOC have been doing, then maybe there would be room for discussion. As it stands now? Nah, step aside sis.
Is there even going to be another election?
The shock to me is that Kamala Harris is in the poll at all. What rallies is she hosting? Is she even making any media appearances? I wouldn't be surprised though if the DNC pull out the super delegates to say AOC has lost day 1 if there is even going to be a 2028 election at all.
I would suggest Harris to look for a spot in the Supreme Court
Defeatists ignoring the number of people attending her rallies recently.
Ayyy. This shouldn't be a shock. I think AOC should be seen as a favourite to emerge as the Democratic nominee in 2028... if we get an election then.
I'm GLAD that Democrats LEARNED from their Past Elections and are running a KNOWN LOSER WHO COULDNT BEAT A LITERAL FASCIST who Ran on the Platform of Ruining Our Lives! It pairs VERY WELL with Chuck Schumer's Policy of doing NOTHING while American Citizens are Deported to El Salvadorian DEATH CAMPS!
You probably need to take a break from the internet, for your own health and safety.
IDK, these days people disappear when they go out to touch grass...
Oof...
Imagine losing to a carnival barker 2 times and not learning a thing from it. They will run their 2016 and 2024 playbook again in 2018 and wonder how they lost, again.
The Poll isn't by the DNC it's by Yale University. Dufus.
There was a poll showing that Trump won voters who don't follow politics at all by 14 points. There seems to be a substantial proportion of the population who just picks who they vote for based on how well things have been going for them for the last 4 or 8 years.
With inflation, the pendulum swung towards Trump. After 4 years of tariffs, declining dollar value and Trump being unable to run again, I think that pendulum will swing fairly hard to the left. So conventional wisdom on not picking a candidate who will scare off centrists could be out the window. In which case, you might as well nominate AOC or someone similar.
Of course, president AOC won't be able to accomplish all the things she wants to without a supportive congress and getting that to happen is a much bigger challenge than winning the presidency.
Trump is doing everything from threatening the media for failing to parrot regime propaganda to trying to render citizens to concentration camps after only a few months in power, and you think the US will still have free and fair elections in four years?!
The US has never had free nor fair elections.
Quit trying to support fascism by minimizing the damage it's done. This is not normal.
I'm doing the opposite. The fascist us has always excluded voters and its vote collecting and counting system is inherently insecure. Hell poll intimidation has been such a huge issue historically there are laws against it that are plainly ignored in red states.
The US, by no possible definition, does not have free nor fair elections. It has always been the worst implementation of democracy, oligarchy.
Kamala Harris is a two-time loser. Who would vote for her?
The DNC. It's a tried and true strategy to screw over the progressives.
Think what kind of clapping seal would believe she's gonna fix things
Its a good point. Despite all the loss and carnage, and the disassembly of our government, at least the dems accomplished screwing the progressives, and continue to do so. They are not sitting on their hands doing nothing.
AOC would receive my vote.
Is this that shocking? Ocasio-Cortez seems to be the only politician left of tired milquetoast liberalism with both the public profile to sustain a campaign and demographic profile amicable to the position.
Wait why is Harris even running again? I don't think she's that bad but I can't vote in US elections - the electorate rejected her.
Great, they are clearly running the campaign for JD Vance then.
See ya in 2028 with JD as president
Bold of them to assume there is going to be an election 2028
We're not voting our way out of this.
If the Dems were smart, they’d make the runner-up in the primary their vice presidential candidate. I don’t know why they never seem to do this. I’m not a “Bernie bro”, but Clinton probably would’ve won if Bernie had been her VP.
Because there is a perception that the VP should "balance" the ticket in some ways for the general. Its why Obama had Biden, why Biden had Harris, and why Harris had Walz (idr Clinton's). They try to calculate about what demographics are missing from the presidential candidate and get someone who fits enough of them that the racism/sexism/ageism and therefore lack of votes towards a candidate for those reasons isn't the reason they lose. It's why Obama had Biden, McCain had Palin, etc. The facist cult doesn't have to bother because their voters don't care.
What could possibly go wrong with pairing the extremely old Biden with the even older Bernie in 2020?
Heck even Hillary in 2016 with Bernie isn't great. She was 71 he was 77.
It feels like everyone is desperate to loose, if someone came up with a contest where winning cost you a lot of money and was nothing but pain and suffering then the race would look exactly the same as it does between dema and reps.
She's an amazing candidate. I'd vote for her. I dunno about the rest of the country tho. They seem to really appreciate white men when it comes time to vote. All other issues be damned.
nothing shocking there.
finally 35, she can run for president, she should win. if I trust any politician to pull the States out of a nosedive, it's sanders or AOC, and I do like that she's half a century younger.
geeez, I wish it was 2028 already! I hope we still have elections in 2028. I usually don't like to be doomer, but nobody is really stopping trump's dictatorship right now. 😬
Midterms are next year. If we can make it that far.
There are elections this year if we make it to November. The "muzzle velocity" they got going isn't giving me hope but the protests and town halls do a little.
Anyone focused on who to run in a 2028 election is delusional. There's absolutely no reason to think the regime will allow a 2026 election, let alone 2028.
We are not even three months in and ice is already arresting citizens. Who knows what things will look like in another three months, let alone 18 months.
None of this matters until the Starlink in swing states fiasco is addressed
Somewhere, a Russian with a gulag allergy is crafting a fresh AOC-focused smear campaign for the 2028 third-party distraction effort.
They don't need to. centrists will do it all by themselves. Like they did with Obama.
I'm sure they'll help. Don't have to set the thing in motion, just give it a little push now and then to keep the conversation moving in the direction you want it to go.
The year is 2028
AOC wins the Democratic nomination
Lemmy immediately ridicules AOC as a shitlib centrist and says that to save democracy, we must protest vote for [insert name here].
I want to get off of Mr. Putin's Wild Ride.
I would like both Bernie and AOC to run for president, each with the other as their VP. Either winning would improve America.
Ideally, we get Bernie-AOC for 2028 and 2032, then AOC + ??? for 2036 and 2040. This nation is in dire need of dedicated progressive leadership, considering how far right the ship has tilted.
lol imagine thinking there's going to be another presidential election
Don't give into the doom that Trump & Musk want us to have. They want us thinking we've already lost so we don't try to stop them, but the fight ain't over till it's over. We the people have power if we're willing to use it
Join on the streets, take a part in boycotts, join strikes, etc.
I agree, but those things aren't voting.
Voting is over. It's time to do something else.
This is only "doom and gloom" if you've given up and resigned yourself to inaction.
IMO, the worst possible response is ignoring reality and entertaining the fantasy that an election 3.5 years away could overthrow a fascist dictatorship that is doing everything you would do if you never planned on facing accountability, justice, or (fair) elections ever again.
IMO, the worst possible response is believing elections or bi-monthly protests are the only plausible way to remove a fascist dictatorship. There are many options, and Americans are already at the point that warrants a permanent general-strike. The corruption, authoritarianism, and treason to their constitutional oath is on full display for all to see. There should be a million people camped around capitol hill and every single Republican politicians home and office — every single SC justice — right now, PEACEFULLY demanding their immediate resignation/abdication, and new elections.
... and if the above fails, and the fascists resort to violence and terrorism to crush the protestors, that's when the gloves should come off and the protestors should be prepared to forcefully remove the fascists, by any means necessary. That is literally the entire reason the 2nd amendment exists at all.
Every tyrant in history has proven that they're either paper tigers who collapse (usually by fleeing) under the weight of opposition (often internal)... or choose violence, and should be met with violence.
If we give up, you are right, there won't be any.
But we also can't just wait and think everything will be fine by next election.
The current administration wants us to be a dictatorship. When they talk about third term, they wants us to hey used to the fact that he will stay in power until his death.
Elections are far too useful as a form of control for the state to dispense with them. Virtually every country on earth has elections, even if they're just sham elections for show. If you're a dictator or aspiring dictator, you're generally much better off having some pretence of democratic legitimacy than just coming out and announcing yourself as president for life.
So far the regime has done a ton of things that hurt its own legitimacy for basically no reason, from defunding USAid to dismantling DEI programs to destroying the administrative state for a the sake of pennies in savings. Those are all extremely useful to the government, just like elections, but they're evil-liberal-deep-state-woke whatever and so they have to be stopped.
itt: we are completely fucked and this might be the end of america… but i ain’t voting for her! she better personally bless every toilet as transgender compatible and become a member of hamas before i vote for her!
I'm trans and I didn't vote for her and I never will.
Inshallah
Obvious bait is obvious.
Wow you're so cool and edgy
it's unfortunate that you hate yourself and everyone else so much.
edit - congratulations, you're the first and only person i've used the downvote button for. i hope you find love.
Is this wise? As an outside observer I had the impression that Harris lost in part because of systematic, subtle and overt racism and sexism. All this applies to AOC, too. Do the Democrats want to lose? Don't they have some sort of JFK look-alike, people actually want to vote? It's not as if appearance wasn't way more important in the US than things like the actual political agenda.
honest question: I am out of the loop. Why the sudden hate against kamala harris? I come from a country without a two party system, so we criticize everybody all the time.
As much as I really really like AOC, I wonder if the rest of America isn’t ready to elect a woman. We’ve had two female candidates and both times we got Trump. Granted the first time was Hillary and I held my nose to vote for her (now I’d vote for a fresh dog turd before I’d vote Trump, but something about the whole Hillary thing just rubbed me the wrong way, especially with what happened to Bernie), and the second time they really screwed up at the last minute with Joe. I guess I’m just skittish at this point.
I really hope I’m wrong, because AOC is just a hair behind Bernie in my opinion and I love Bernie. I think she’d be a really intelligent take no shit leader and I am so desperate for that right now.
Both candidates ran as conservatives that attacked the left side of the Democratic party more than they did Trump's policies. It's not because they were women, it's the policies they stood for.
I absolutely think that’s a large part of it.
I personally believe that a woman could make a great president. I also believe that America is much more sexist and racist than many of us would like to admit.
Yep. There's a chunk of people that won't vote for a woman. Then there's ones that won't vote for anyone not white. That's the sad thing
Outside of AOC or Sanders, I will write in for a chimpanzee.
The shocking part is that Harris isn't polling lower.
Name recognition.
I have a feeling that AOC is going to run for Schumer's seat and Booker is going to be the nominee.
She should definitely primary Schumer.
I'll be so happy voting for AOC to primary that genocidal spineless shitheel.
I'm less certain about Booker. Unless the DNC has learned anything(doubtful) I'd bet on Newsom or even Hochul being pushed... :(
Newsom is already the nominee.
Yes, the same polls that said Kamala would win.
Are they? I remember the polls saying it was about 51-49 in favor of Trump
AOC is #1
If you think in terms of "lanes" AOC is the only left wing potential candidate on there, 21% support is actually not persuasive in her odds to actually be the candidate.
I feel very good about her chances to run the Bernie playbook and end with a top 3 amount of delegates but in an actual primary the lanes would clear up as people drop out and it is hard to see her consolidating support from like, Gavin Newsome.
It's Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. And she's one of the last persons still right in the head in that circus. 2028 elections may not even happen, and she is the one that is needed to be behind the wheel not then but right fucking now.
"SHOCK POLL"
There are no true Scotsmen in this thread.
Can we turn this into an interactive debate? Like a fantasy football dashboard meets lemmy?
Not shocking to anyone paying attention
In the last failed election, when asked what Harris would change of Bidens policies, she answered, "couldnt think of anything she'd have done differently". Those policies polled extremely low at the time, even amongst her own party. If Harris has a different view now, immediately would be the time to voice how she's any different, otherwise polling on those issues says she is another losing candidate to a fascist clown trying for an illegal 3rd term. Its long past put up or shut up time, Harris's work needs to speak for itself or she needs to get the hell out of the way.
Wheres the effin new policy positions, Kamala. Get off your arse and do the work.
If Kamala couldn't beat Trump, and AOC is behind her... does that mean she'd win?
Let's be honest, we'd vote for a shit sammich right now over the orange cancer and his clown parade...
that was the option THIS time. and way WAY too many people voted for this clown parade. why do you think a 2028 election will be different?
I don't know what is the needs to be doubtful of polls now, after all, polls told us all over the internet that Kamala would DEFINITELY win the election, and she won it. right?
Right?
So yeah this polling must also be saying the truth
Let's fucking goooooooooo
So the Democrats are not interested in public opinion and is hellbent on always making every election about identity politics. I’m saying this as someone who has always (regrettably) voted democrat in every election since 1992. Inclusivity is important, but why is it always…always the only talking point coming from the left. The message that everyone should be able to get behind is the insane wealth disparity that exists, most especially in America. I remember when everyone on the left was sooo happy, so thrilled when Kirsten Sinema was elected as Senator for Arizona because she was bisexual, as if that’s somehow a qualification, and how she took a huge dump on working class Americans. Has anyone given thought to the Astronaut? You know, the guy whose wife was affected by political violence? The guy who seems reasonable and well spoken ? Middle America might actually vote for someone like Mark Kelly who flew combat missions during the gulf war. Why is the Democratic Party so obsessed with AOC? She’s not a bad person, the right obviously hates her, and that’s shitty, but it doesn’t mean she should automatically be the darling of the Democratic Party, the obsession confuses me honestly, her personality is a bit grating tbh. Democrats are hellbent on either choosing and ineffective milquetoast man or a disingenuous woman.
Why do democrats keep voting for losers?
Either of them will lose to Vance in 2028
Is that shocking because she is as high as second or not higher?
TBH that sounds completely expected to me. Bernie Sanders never won the DNC primary, idk why anybody would think AOC would unless a major upset happened.
I would have voted if she was running last November.
As much as I love her, this country has shown time and time again it is unwilling to elect a woman president. It sucks, and I don't like it, but the Dems need to run a dude.
Edit: good job hivemind, proving you're still alive and strong considering there's a top comment saying the exact same thing.
Yeah, we’re not gonna get another election. We blew it as a country. Shit’s over.
Don't play into the doom that Trump & Musk want us to all have. The fight ain't over till it's over
I hope so.
Don't just hope, join the fight back! April 19th is the next day of nationwide protests
I was at the last one, and I’ll be at the next one.
Also hey person who downvoted me, I really hope you’re right. Another election would be good. It’s just there’s all this doom in the air.
I think there will be another election but you know that Trump is going to try something like refuse to leave office or challenge the validation of the election. Hopefully the midterms are a land slide for the Dems and we can get some sanity back
As a trans woman, this term has been suuuper rough on me and it’s barely a twelfth over.
🫂
Defeat, doom, and giving up just makes it a done deal and accomplishes nothing.
I mean the Democrats can keep running women candidates, but it's really not working at all. It's mind boggling that people chose Trump over a woman again, but here we are. America has a severe daddy complex going on.
And this is what's wrong with the party. You need to win red districts. Neither of these women will.
If those are our two front runners we are fucked.
AOC would be great.
But would the majority of American voters vote for her?
Because if not then it doesn’t matter how great she would be.
AOC might be a better House speaker.
If she doesn't move to the Senate, yeah.
Of all the US presidents, only Obama, Harding, and FDR won the presidency from the Senate. I dont see that being in the Senate or not being in the Senate has any bearing at all beyond a bump for name recognition, and AOC doesnt need that bump. Especially so with the voters extreme low polling for approval of dems in congress.
I didn't mean as a step towards POTUS. I think we need more people like her in Congressional leadership roles more than we need her as POTUS. Unless we're talking about the next Roosevelt, I want a boring POTUS.
She's hit and miss for me. When she's calling people out on their bullshit regardless of party affiliation I am a fan. When she's marching along with the ancient Democrats and being performative I can't stand that shit.
I do not think she would do significantly better than Harris did. I think she would be an improvement, but idk if that's gonna be enough.
Then who would you suggest, if not AOC?
Truthfully I don't know if the Democrats have anyone that can win back the American people. Newsome is hated by half his own state and all the other states. Buttigieg maybe? Idk.
We really need another Obama or Bill Clinton. Someone charasmatic and well spoken. We just don't have anyone young or charasmatic in that way that I can think of.
Hopefully when Harris wins the primary Ocasio-Cortez’s fans don’t have a nine year temper tantrum.
Harris lost to trump. She is a loser. In what reality do you live where the best candidate to run is before mentioned loser who failed to beat a clown faced grifter reality game show host? Are you as daft as the people who think trump is the savior?
On the bright side they won't be as toxic as KHIVE has always been
Are you talking about Harris or Beyoncé?
AOC supporters won't be as toxic and vile as Harris supporters have been.
You didn’t answer the question just jumped up on your soapbox to say how we aren’t left enough for you.
My comment doesn't imply anything like that. KHIVE has been the most vile toxic group of sycophants to come out of the DNC in years.
Are you kidding? The only chance Harris has to win the primary is if the party pulls another Debbie Wasserman Schultz and destroys their chances in the general again.
So her chances are high, then.
That's a valid point, but I wouldn't put money on it.
"vote blue no matter who" and the dems pivoting from issue driven campaigns to personality driven ones so they can take donations from bad actors is what got the party into the mess its in.
The core reason for the loss in 2024 still exists, and polls show that patience for DNC shenanigans has run out amongst voters.
Complaining is fine and encouraged.
It’s the Bernie-or-bust mindset or the whole voting third party instead of Harris campaigns that I take issue with.
We wouldn't have to be this way if the Democrats hadn't shown their whole ass to put us here:
https://people.com/celebrity/debbie-wasserman-schultz-resigns-following-bernie-sanders-comments/
That’s exactly what I’m talking about.
Right?
You'd think the party would have learned its lesson after the disaster in 2016 but then 2024 comes around and they do it again, appealing to "centrists" like the mythical moderate Republican and pushing their own voters out of the conversation so they could keep the AIPAC cash flowing.
Isn’t going against Israel political suicide whether you like them or not?
There’s a reason every president has been pro-Israel since it was created.
Seems to me that their being pro-genocide hurt them more than it helped.
It's political suicide according to people who love everything they do.
Ask Ilhan Omar. She's just a little representative and they wanted her gone. AIPAC can be a big fish in a small pond against a small number of targeted representatives who are already on shaky ground. They don't mean shit at the presidential level.