I assume years of collectively crying about it online has made something as simple and natural like dating seem like this unachievable task.
Not sure if it’s just me, but I feel like young people are less capable than ever to socialise. I thought I was a social pariah, but I don’t have shit on some people out there.
I think so too. Online dating is just too convenient. It’s easier to arrange a date while playing video games than going into a club or other places you don’t like to begin with. I won’t lament those places dying out. Fuck them, never felt comfortable there.
But online dating should have made things easier not worse. Then again those sites aren’t free of blame too.
The problem with online dating sites is that they have the wrong incentive. They want to make money, not bring people together into lasting relationships.
The difference is that pubs and nightclubs are not exclusively for people who are looking to meet other people. People go there with friends, to have a good time. Not so much with online dating sites.
Because there is a very real sentiment called "Don't shit where you eat." I learned it the hard way in two different workplaces. In the first one, we broke up and it ruined the work environment. In the second, the 'no' was expanded to HR complaints and lawsuits, again ruining the work environment. Knowing someone has (or had) romantic interest in you can be a pain, and it can definitely blow up a working relationship.
Because it's a social environment. You don't go purely on appearance usually, you see someone interesting, start chatting, maybe you flirt a bit and if the vibes are right you move forward. If anything it's far less appearance focused than the apps where it's a picture and a bio and not interaction.
As for why not coworkers and classmates and such, it's fine if flirtation is happening. But to a certain degree it's shitting where you eat. People have professional and to a lesser degree academic personas that are less who they really are than their social personas.
And then there are people like me, who don't have the biggest friend group and it's predominantly male. And my workplace is also highly male dominated. So I don't have any women that I know that I could ask out.
pubs and nightclubs have limited tools for deciding who can interact with who, in comparison. No idea if that makes them work any better for matchmaking though.
I was a complete social reject in middle and high school so I don't even know how to people but I just assumed that was just me and my miserable circumstances apparently a lot of people have the same problem?
From what I've seen/heard, it's not specifically the 'crying.' It's a general effect from online life. Online activities are much, much easier than in person. Want to feel a connection to someone? Here's vloggers, talking straight at you in painfully earnest tones about everything in their life. Want someone to entertain you? Here's half a dozen companies fighting to be the one you turn to. Hungry? Forget cooking. Here's delivery options from everywhere. Horny? Porn! It's all a click away and you don't even need to put on pants. If getting a need met enough to get you to tomorrow takes no effort, many people aren't going to put in the work to get, not even a guarantee, but only a chance at something better.
Just be funny and not a piece of shit. My wife is so gorgeous, people immediately know I have a good sense of humor and I’m supportive. I’m certainly not rich.
Granted, this is not a good approach for the apps. You need to be able to sell yourself in person. Best dating strategy in this case is making many friends, and some of them will be charmed into attraction. If I were dating, speed dating would probably be workable for this approach.
Step 3. Ask our the people you're genuinely interested in, and feel you have some kind of connection with, respectfully, knowing rejection is okay
Repeat until you get a date.
Being attractive helps a lot. Obviously. But you can put effort into your appearance. More than anything your personality is the thing that will get you a date.
Having tried Tinder 12 years ago, once, around the time I became an adult, why you'd choose it over asking people out in real life is beyond me. Especially if you're not very attractive.
If there is one thing the internet has overwhelmingly seceded at it's convincing people that looks are absolutely everything. A lot of people I know tend to take their dating app experience as solid evidence of their romantic inaptitude. Even when it's all too well known they are scams designed to keep you on their platform for as long as possible.
I know that preaching about stepping up to women may feel like the same way as saying: "Just be attractive, bro." And if it does, to that I say: Do it and practise it for the sake of it. "That looks like a nice person, let's find out what they're about, for no damn reason at all."
Anyway, my two cents. And if it helps whenever you're scared of striking up a conversation just keep in mind: "The alternative is dating apps."
Your inability to understand nuance might be part of the problem. Having to explain every single exception spelled out literally takes too long to get the guy acting creepy away from them.
Yeah, because you're drowning in self-pity instead of understanding that men are the problem in the vast majority of cases. You're bitching around instead, that's typical incel behavior.
You can go up to a woman and flirt with her - just don't be an asshole and accept a "no" without crying or further harassing her ;) It's really not hard. Most appreciate it.
Cry me a river. I've never heard a women say "don't approach me", but I've heard many say "don't be a douche" and "stop thinking you're a fucking victim".
Apparently you already forgot their reasoning behind it. A bear is a known quantity. Humans can lie to gain your trust, then turn on you. They weren't saying all men are bad, they were saying that meeting a stand man alone in the woods - you have no idea how this person will act.
Geez you incels are stupid. Between victims like you and wannabe "alpha males" who wanna jerk one another, I agree mens are now a bunch of losers who wont ever get laid.
The bear metaphor was obviously thinly veiled racism/xenophobia from the start. Lots of conservative/moderate women who are terrified of anyone who isn't white or who is "illegal"
Source: I've actually listened to women, in person, describe their reasoning, instead of making up my own justification for something like the incel community decided to do.
I keep saying this cause it's a take a lot of people gloss over. I haven't dated in a while because I'm too broke to add anything else to my budget, dive bars included. Dating takes time and money, and if I get more of either, I'm using it to better my situation before thinking about dating.
In a time where real wealth is dwindling for most young men, I can imagine I'm not alone on this.
Going through the same problem, I was in uni during COVID, when it hit many things in my life changed or left so I shut down and unfortunately couldn't complete my degree in the end. Now I'm just job hunting and rebuilding and while I do feel pretty lonely at times, I realise I can't even consider talking to a girl romantically until I can rebuild myself (my own choice). Luckily I have this close female friend who i can talk to makes me feel a little less alone
Life advice from an old'ish dude: find a girl when you are broke. She will always love you, not the money. She will also love you in hardship and she won't care if you go for a walk or watch Netflix because it's cheaper. :)
Every time I see an article like this I think who fucking cares? Like what's going on with men? Its a generational and cultural thing its not men's fault. Dating sucks, people get rejected in ultra harsh ways, sometimes being filmed and then posted on social media for trying to ask someone out. If I was in the age range to be dating I wouldn't bother.
Might be a good time to downplay the importance of a relationship for a happy life then instead of trying to push the message that your life sucks if you don't have one.
My point was that making people feel worse about their situation likely won't improve the outcome. People either would be happy without a partner or they won't and those who won't don't need an external push to try to find a partner and both groups might feel worse if they are publicly branded a failure for not having a partner.
Then perhaps we should expect changes/shifts in women's behavior to bridge the gap?
I don't think that cultural evolution is happening - look at Bumble, which had its premise/differentiation with women making the "first move." They eventually had to nix the feature, because...women didn't want to make the first move; they wanted to be pursued. Meanwhile, apps in general are just a minefield of emotional rejection, while Corporate ownership drags men through the muck as long as possible to get those $$$. So most men simply stop using apps and simply wait for some kind of IRL meet-cute. And that sparingly happens in a society that has very, very few places for non-commercial social overlap.
people get rejected in ultra harsh ways, sometimes being filmed and then posted on social media for trying to ask someone out.
Are you sure this isn't exaggerating it a little? This may be anecdotal but I have never dealt with any such harsh rejection within my social circles (neither have my associates). What I'm trying to get at is that there may be a vocal minority that gets a lot of online attention.
Then again if thousands upon thousands of people see such a post (like on say r/Tinder) and take it as a common phenomenon it would still have the same effect.
Really the fear of it happening is enough. All you have to do is have it happen once, or know someone that it happened to, or see a video of it for that to scare you off of even trying.
Honestly, I get it's a green text, but this is pretty easily explained. First off: dating is fucking expensive, and unfortunately standard gender roles means the dude foots the bill most of the time. Yes times are changing, but that's still pretty standard. Pair that with the fact that dudes usually have to make the first move (again, old gender standards) and the fact that social media adds another layer of risk of being ridiculed or making someone viral because they were 'crimge' or 'gave the girl the ick' and it's a pretty stacked deck. Hell, point one is such a strong weigh in that it's enough to explain all of it. People are more broke than ever, and if dating by default involves going out, well guess that date isn't going to happen.
I recently ended a 6 year relationship. I'm not going to settle down with anyone again unless they have their own stuff going on like a career and goals. I think a lot of women expect men to manage all the finances, set goals, plan vacations and provide stability but they don't want to do the traditional gender role stuff like cooking and cleaning or making a home. So what's the point? Why make someone else's life easier if they don't do the same for you? had a son young(I was 19 when I had him) and he's 11 now, so it's not like I'm dreaming of starting a family. Most women bring nothing to the table. And if you're lucky enough like me to have a good income, house, car, etc... you realize a lot of things are easier living alone.
Women want the princess treatment but don't know how to act like a princess. Beyond that, sex isn't all it's hyped up to be. I know I sound like a redpill incel but dating shouldn't be a priority for anyone. What's the rush? Don't fall for the first thing you see, make sure they're worth it first.
If you decide to date again, you should consider dating liberal women. The only women I have known who are like you describe are conservative(and I have met one or two who expect the princess treatment and then don't deliver on the prince treatment!). I know conservative men who expect traditional roles, and I know conservative men who expect to split the bills and say they'll split the housework but then the woman ends up doing all the housework anyway. The women in that situation end up feeling like you: if I'm doing the housework AND working, this is easier on my own!
In my liberal circles things seem to be a bit more evenly split, and both partners are often more independent.
It seems like you're happy on your own though, so you're doing the right thing by removing yourself from the dating pool! Maybe you'll find someone independent who will be a good match naturally, but I can't imagine a woman would want to work and split the housework with someone who has your attitude ("most women are bad and not worth having around") so you might need to change that if you do decide to get back into dating. I can't connect on what you mean on sex not being the best thing in the world and the literal purpose of life, but I do know my husband felt like you on that front before he met me. He thought people were just exaggerating on how good it is. Maybe, like him, you just haven't met the right match there either? It's not like I'm even that good in bed, if anything I'm a bit of a selfish lover. It's just that we're a good fit together. Good luck, man. I hope you find the right fit and realize men and women are equally selfish and equally selfless.
Oh my God! Someone else that enjoys being put under! I wouldn't say it is quite pleasurable, but definitely a fun experience. It's like time travel. You remember them telling you to count down from ten, you get to 7-6 and then BAM, you are waking up after the operation is done. I've had 3 surgeries and they have all been pretty fun experiences, but to be fair, I've never had complications and non of them were life threatening.
I get there's a bit of biterness here, but speaking as an older millennial this was my experience as well. Feminism created a weird gap of women becoming strong and independent, but with some meant 'im not going to do traditional fem, but expect you to do traditional man' with no compromise. I ended up finding a wonderful woman and we both split everything, but it took me 20 years.
Good sex is honestly a toss up, I've had great sex in horrible relationships and bad sex in great relationships. I understand being in love with someone enhances it but love is a feeling which is impossible to sustain permanently
Have you actually tried taking unrepentant time off, where you have no work or social obligations, and grabbing unhealthy snacks and drinks, curling up with a good game, and zoning out of reality for hours or days at a time?
Sex is nice and all, and we're hard wired to like it more than most activities, but it does not hold a single candle to unrepentant free time when you're not used to said free time.
Have you actually tried taking unrepentant time off, where you have no work or social obligations, and grabbing unhealthy snacks and drinks, curling up with a good game, and zoning out of reality for hours or days at a time?
Cosplaying as a free human? Yeah I would love to pretend for a little while and forget the shit planet I was forced to exist on.
I've not found loving someone to help with the quality of the sex all that much. Maybe they just didn't love me back or something. The crazy one was always great and was the only one who wanted it as often as I did but the rest of that relationship was a mess.
Agreed. Cost of living and wealth inequality are getting so bad it's breaking society. We see it everywhere and it's weird to prioritize non economic explanations.
Although hetero dating is just total bs, speaking as a queer gal. All that old cruft is rotten and it's gotta go
I went out on a first date with this woman recently and we just split the bill 50/50. It was a refreshing change of scenery. I think that should be standard so that nobody has any expectations on either side. As time goes on you can figure out how to allocate cash flow but first dates should never be 100% on one gender, unless one of them are rich (in my opinion at least.)
45% of men 18 to 25 have never asked out a woman in person
I can't speak for the whole 45% but some of us have heard stories from women about how that other 55% can behave. I think I'd rather wait for a lady to (never) ask me out then put someone in the position of thinking "Oh, is he gonna take it bad if I say no?"
It's a complicated issue with a lot of layers. Like a depressing onion.
Men were told to stop approaching women for any reason in any situation. So we did.
Dating apps and websites have overinflated women's egos and absolutely obliterated most mens egos. The average looking guy with a job and some normal hobbies is going to get very few matches where as most women get hundreds a day regardless of their level of employment or having hobbies. This leads to women believing they can find the millionaire bachelor if they just hold out for longer when in reality they are not the women that the millionaire bachelor is going to pick.
Most women still expect men to be chivalrous and pay on the first date, but they have no actual intention of pursuing a relationship with that guy. Unfortunately some women have learned they can get a free meal and entertainment for an evening at no cost if they just say yes to dates they have no interest in. Most guys have been burned by that as some point.
A lot of women are still playing games. Saying no because they want the man to "chase" them or "fight" for them. Most guys have stopped entertaining that behavior whatsoever but I still see so many women doing it. As men we can't tell if that's what you want or if you actually mean it when you say no so the majority of us will immediately stop pursuing you if you decline us. I'm 33 and women are STILL doing this. I thought it would taper off as I got farther from high school aged girls but from my experience it has not gone down in any significant way.
There are a million other reasons and nuanced details but I am tired of typing.
Myself and most men I know around my age who all did very well in the dating scene when we were younger have just completely given up on dating now. We have zero interest in putting in the time, energy and money into something that yeilds nothing in return these days.
Like most things I think this will reach a breaking point and things will shift but I'm not sure when that will be or what will push things over the edge.
We're going to see the long term effects of people in that micro generation losing much of what the high school social scene represented, that low stakes junior league of forming new relationships, where meeting is easy, with lots of natural opportunities for free interaction, and making new connections is normal. Learning to flirt in that environment is a stepping stone towards being able to navigate the adult world, where people don't have your schedule planned out for you, and you won't naturally see the same people 100+ days out of the year, and have 50+ chances to shoot your shot when you're ready.
And yes, sure, the loss of third places and changing social dynamics and gender roles and the economy play a role, too, for pretty much everyone under 40. But it's worth pointing out that this specific age cohort has special challenges on top of the issues that everyone else is living, too.
reading this thread I'm glad I'm a removed in a relationship. my spouse is the best. i got so fucking lucky.
there's a massive epidemic of loneliness out there. the loss of the free/cheap third spaces, lockdowns, and social media have made a fucking shitstorm. I'm scared for the generations below me just starting to enter the workforce. so many kids just unable to function properly.
i can't solve it. but I've been putting my devices down more and (trying) to get out more. get more sunlight and fresh air, even if i just sit outside and watch the ducks. it's hard out there. give yourself a break, okay? eat a snack and take a walk.
Social changes have caused chaos. A lot of the "traditional" dating methods existed to give structure to finding a partner. Unfortunately, those structures got trashed by the general update to gender roles. While these changes are great in many ways, it left young people in limbo. It was eventually replaced with online dating, for many. Unfortunately, that, in turn has been trashed by corporate takeover.
You've also got the outlier problem. The problematic men and women make up a small proportion of the population, but do a disproportionate amount of dating. A lot of the complaints are aimed at the problematic groups. Unfortunately, they don't care. It's mostly the non-problematic people who get the wrong message.
I think the effect of other societal changes not immediately associated with relationships might be underestimated here too, such as the commercialization of any and all free time activities where one might casually meet people of the preferred gender on a regular basis combined with the limited disposable income. Or (in the US at least) the elimination of sidewalks and other public places where one might encounter people from your own neighborhood outside of a car. More customized media consumption leading to fewer guaranteed shared topics to discuss compared to the time when generally everyone watched the same things on TV and read the same news at a similar time. I could probably come up with other examples but the point is that a lot of things changed that make just meeting people to consider to ask out much more difficult than it used to be a few decades ago.
I fully agree. A lot of entertainment options have moved from self organising to a fire hose model. It used to be you just gave youngsters a place to go, and let them work out what to do with it. Now it's hyper-commercialised. Everyone sits/stands there and absorbs entertainment from a central source.
It's also not just young adults and teenagers. Pre teens and early teens have nowhere to really interact organically. Without that solid foundation of peer socialising, they are trying to build on soft sand.
It doesn't help that society is actively hostile to groups of kids and teens. Malls increasingly ban unaccompanied minors, "get off my lawn" attitudes lead to closing down of public parks and rec type facilities, violent paramilitary police are a threat to their safety, etc.
I agree that throwing young people together in the same place doesn't automatically just work and there needs to.be some sort of support system for people who fall through the cracks
For me personally, it's a combination of factors. A non zero number of my exes lost interest after a while and it damaged my ego pretty badly. Dating Apps are a string of getting ghosted with the occasional date that leads to me paying for drinks and dinner, only to get ghosted. I've always been a shy person and I can only handle so much failure before I don't want to play anymore. I missed out on the high school and college dating scenes and it shows. There is one common denominator in all of my dating failures and it's me.
I'm married to a tinder girl now so say what you want about that but for me, it was fear of further social ostracization. I always struggled to fit in, in grade school because I was asian in a sea of white kids. Some kids were literally afraid to touch the "chinese boy" (i was korean but try telling that to rabid white elementary and middle school kids looking for any reason to other anyone). I became a huge people pleaser and tried not to stick out for any reason. I had also seen how the "popular" kids treated any of the geeks who tried to shoot their shot and I didn't want to fuck up any of the social capital I thought I had. It obviously got better in late high school as kids grew up but the damage was done. I had a few girlfriends in high school and college but they mostly came after me or we kind of just found ourselves getting close so there wasn't any formal "asking out" type of stuff. Either way I probably blew a lot of romantic opportunities but it is what it is.
I got a boy due in June so hopefully I can instill the confidence in him that I didn't have.
Unless the person you respond to is trans the fact that they describe themselves as being referred to as a "chinese boy" would suggest that they are likely not a girl.
Theres definitely a truth to it, younger people are drinking less and less every generation, which takes its toll on bars and to some extent clubs too.
Isn’t it also because going out nowadays is expensive as hell especially if you live in a big city. Young people working part time aren’t going to waste one month’s salary on one night out. And just hanging outside in public sharing a beer will make a nosy boomer call the cops on you for loitering. So the younger generations have learned how to have fun at home without booze.
There's never been a point in my life where going out drinking all night has made financial sense. A meal and a beer at a pub, sure, but bars are expensive. And loud. And cramped.
You just have to live in the right city with sufficiently high rates of alcoholism! In Fargo, ND you could get a tall 200 lb+ man proper sloshed over an evening downtown across 5-8 bars for $50 or less as recently as 2019. Not as cheap as drinking at home, but enough that most folks without kids working full-time could do it every other weekend.
See, but that's the rub! Who the fuck wants to spend $50 and go to that many bars? I could get a new AAA game for that much that I'll play for hundreds of hours. Or 10 indie games that I'll play for longer!
$50 fro 6pm-2am is cheaper per hour than a movie ticket or dinner at a restaurant, and hitting that many bars is easy when they’re all on the same 2-3 block stretch!
$50 or less in 2019? I live in a more urban area of the US than this and if you pregame and go with friends, you can get the equivalent of 5 drinks at 3 bars for well under $20. In 2025.
$200 for 1 night out is crazy. Can't you just pregame a bit (courtesy of public transit), then go to some bars and get some cheap drinks for $5 or less each?
Fuck, and I was just reading Homelessness Is A Housing Problem, and they were talking all about stats and to not buy into intuitive narratives, and low and behold, I have bought into this without looking it up. Guess I should get onto that now.
(And by reading the book, I mean I use a GlaDOS voice pack from Hugginface using SherpaTTS. What a vibe.)
So many comments echoing "women told us to stop approaching us, so we did!"
I mean no offense, truly, but you missed the point if that's the message you took. It wasn't "Do not, under any circumstances, speak to a woman" it was, "if you shoot your shot and she's not interested, move on and don't make it weird. If she is at work, be very careful as customer service does not equal flirting." Yes, there are some grey areas (not sure even the best gentleman could slide up to a woman alone in a parking lot and not freak her out), but some of you are kicking up the board without even moving a piece. Stop pushing the narrative that only attractive men can speak to women. Not only are you assuming you're not attractive by saying that (which cannot be good for your confidence) , you're reducing women's feelings and concerns as being blindly shallow and unwarranted.
The world is not full of only beautiful people, yet people still live and love. Not to dismiss the difficulties (as an uggo myself, I get it), but you can get out there, I know you can.
A lot of people in this thread are talking about how much women suck because of X, Y, Z. But like... have you tried not dating shitty women? Or at least not getting so hung up on a woman who treats you poorly? Yeah, it sucks to be treated badly, but consider that you just dodged a bullet. You don’t need women like that in your life. Find a woman you actually connect with, someone you share interests with, not just someone you want to sleep with.
Two hard truths a lot of single men need to reckon with:
1: Most people are kind of shitty, and therefore, most women are kind of shitty. I could go on about how consumer culture and social media encourage toxic traits, but the fact of the matter is you should focus on not being a shitty person yourself, and you shouldn’t settle for shitty people either.
2: With number one in mind, you need to broaden your horizons regarding what kind of woman you’re attracted to. Porn and social media have rotted our brains when it comes to attraction. Maybe I’m just pervy, but honestly, I can find something attractive in just about everyone. 90% of people are at least a 7/10 if they put in some effort, and a 7/10 who you truly vibe with is better than a 10/10 who treats you like shit. And trust me, when you form a true romantic connection with someone, they become even more attractive in your eyes.
There are good, beautiful women out there, I know because I’m marrying one. We met online, and she’s one of the kindest and smartest people I’ve ever met, and I find her more beautiful than anyone else in the world. And I’m a fat, impoverished, autist. If I can do it, so can you.
People in this thread are fucking wild... In college, and before I met my wife, I'd just get fucking trashed at house parties and then try to hit on anything with a pulse. Now, I'm not some "lady's man," and I didn't pull them all, but it definitely worked well enough to get me laid when I wasn't dating someone.
Shocker - never maced or reported for sexual assault?
I don't know what the problem is there but I can say Im stretched too thin. I once went on Prozac and it completely changed my energy levels for a time. Unfortunately, the effects wore off within a year and everything was a slog again. It just sucks to know what it feels like to have excess energy and all the dopamine that comes with it only to go back to critically low levels.
The end of the day the amount of time I would need to sort all my shit out is just not afforded to me. So I go with incremental improvements and the way things are, the world is getting shittier faster than I'm getting better.
Also bullying is an informal form of social control they don't have to do themselves nor take responsibly for unless it involves serious physical violence.
Nobody ever laughed in my face or told all their friends or spread rumors about me, they just said no thank you and I moved on.
I was in college by the time you were in high school, and I totally had friends who had that happen. I don't know if kids are more cruel now or if you had an exceptionally kind group of peers.
Okay, they were laughed at. Then what? Did the guy blow it off and try with someone else, or never try again? It's not how many times you get knocked down...
Nobody ever laughed in my face or told all their friends or spread rumors about me, they just said no thank you and I moved on.
Lucky you, I asked a girl out once in HS, got denied, afterwards she and her friends would often look at me and giggle during classes or breaks and avoid any contact with me. Later, through a friend, I learned they came up with the nickname "priest" for me (as in catholic priest, who has to vow for celibacy), as that was the "obvious career choice" for me
I was in High School in '93-'96. I graduated a year early. The kids were, if anything, worse back then. Y'all are much more empathetic over all, than the kids I went to HS and University with.
I think young people are a lot more cruel now than they were then.
Its more of a human thing actually. I always find anti bullying measures kind of a waste of time. Adults will bully you way more. It just isn't a swirly.
it's making you fill out an application on a job prospects website even though the info is on the resume.
It's every month when we pay rent.
It's every paycheck we receive that doesn't include our surplus labor value.
It's a overdraft fee from your bank.
It's ComcastXfinity purchasing your local government and ensuring you have no alternatives for an ISP.
It's the "unprecedented call volume" you wait through that happens because the customer service phone line is purposely understaffed.
It's your health insurance denying your claim.
It's everywhere. Just because we hide it behind a curtain of the economic system doesn't mean it changes the nature of these interactions.
Besides, don't you want your kid to be successful? Bullies are successful as fuck. Every parent should be teaching their child to be the biggest asshole douchebag bully ever.
That statistic applies to all marriages and not to first marriages, also iirc it was only for a few years. Divorce rates have been on a generally downward trajectory for quite a while
That makes sense. A lot of bad marriages were only held together by divorce being illegal and they all flew apart at once. Then things have slowed to a more natural base rate
There's also a lot less pressure to marry early or at all. Like, I'm married because I love my wife and wanted to marry her. Had I been pressured to marry younger I probably wouldn't've met her and may have resented being pressured in before I was ready.
all marriages would include first marraiges, what you're trying to say is that people who divorce, are more likely to divorce more than once, several times even. Which disproportionately pushes up the divorce rate.
Now would be a good time to pull stats for first marriage divorce if there are any good ones.
I have a ton of women friends (more than men ATM) and have solid evidence that I am a significantly attractive man. I'm also bi so my options are a tad more broad than average.
Even with this I can say that dating is unpleasant and I have never asked for one and barely do them (women are rarely bold enough to be the initiator). It feels like a socially awkward job interview where I have to spend money I don't have and I fucking hate job interviews.
Admittedly, I also am autistic, socially anxious, and sexually repressed (American sex culture sucks).
I just got divorced at 30 after 7 years and I'm probably not going to get involved with a woman again. I'm not interested in having kids because the world is ending so it's essentially a no win situation unless someone can change my mind on this.
Had a crush on one of my friends for years and she wasn't interested even when I got divorced. Till I bought my house and now she wants in on my life.
I'm not saying all women are bad but I just don't see the risk being worth it. My ex wife ruined my life after many years of happiness.
There are a lot of positives being in a relationship but way more negatives. I'm just happier alone.
After my long relationship (7+), i started dating again. Unfortunately i discovered that no one is looking for a meaningful connection or a serious conversation. Everyone wants to catered and be heard, no one wants to listen for just a second. I actively stopped myself from flirting/dating anymore, it’s just a complete waste of time 🤷♂️im sorry to say many many many girls are VERY VERY superficial people.
I've tried and I'm still trying. As someone who is a bit shorter than average and is socially awkward, it's tough. Recently I've been able to get dates with 3 girls from dating apps (due to me being better at flirting and getting a few more matches than before), but they all went nowhere.
1 girl didn't seem to want any touching or flirty things on the first date and the conversation wasn't smooth, so I friendzoned her.
The other 2 girls immediately started with a flirty text conversation.
I hit it off with first one over text, we were having long phone calls and sending raunchy stuff over text. I had one short date with and was planning a spicier 2nd date with but she cancelled because I asked her to be my Valentine on Valentine's Day.
The 2nd one wanted to take things slower, and friendzoned me after 2 longer dates. She also wasn't that into touching.
I never kissed any of these girls. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, especially with the first flirty girl.
For me at this point in my life trying to find someone to date just isn't worth the effort. I have limited time, money, and mental energy and there are better ways to spend it than on women who for the most part won't be interested in me anyway. Unless the relationship turns out great and we're amazingly compatible it's going to add more stress than it's worth. I still go out with my friend (about 30% of whom are women) and we do various activities that I enjoy. I have hobbies that interest me and basically all my free time is occupied between stuff I want to do and chores. If some woman I know I get along with likes me enough to pursue something romantic I might give it a shot but otherwise I'm comfortable with things as they are and I don't want to risk fucking that up by adding someone else into the mix.
Let me offer a scenario; two drunk people who wouldn't normally go near each other spend a night together. The morning comes, regret is in the air for both parties, which of these two people is most at risk?
The correct answer is: "the one who doesn't accuse the other on social media".
Just remember, no-one gave any indication of gender there. It's not really about gender at this point - it's the fact we've constructed a world where a casual encounter has the potential to become the prisoner's dilemma if it is regretted afterwards.
That's not a world where people take risks on a date, especially if physical intimacy is on the cards. To much risk!
Women have been told they only need to exist to be desired and are not putting any effort at the beginning of the relationship and men are getting tired of doing all the lift without any reciprocation.
That has been my experience, anyway, and I'm getting tired of meeting women that show no effort to make things work.
My kid is almost 27, and he hasn't been on a date since he was six. The little girl down the street, with very strange parents, asked him over for a play date.
(No, I don't say anything to him about it. It's none of my business.)
Maybe you should check in with him, make sure he isn't feeling lonely or depressed. As long as he's okay with it, great, but if there's support he needs, don't assume he can handle it all alone.
Isn't it, though? I'm in my 40's and still rely on my family for advice, and to continue to grow and develop as a person. I have a lot to learn, and I think other people's thoughts and experiences are helpful for getting through things.
Part of an attempt to further isolate people and blame men for Capitalism killing relationships
100% agree with this. One of the reasons my ex gave when we broke up was that I'm a workaholic. At the time I worked at a newspaper and sometimes finished 20 - 30 minutes after my regular time when a big story came in late.
Maybe because they are getting advice from other men how to trick a girl into giving them sex, this why alot look to pickup artist, it involves manipulation and tricks. They got so used to it, they don't even ask people
So... Over the phone doesn't count? Texting doesn't count? Email? Those don't count? I would think that in this day and age texting would be the normal way to ask a girl out for a first date.
You know it's REALLY hard for someone not super social to ask a girl out in person. I'm 50 and i think I've never asked a girl out for a first date in person.... But then again, I am an introverted nerd so that's probably to be expected. Hell, I asked the girl I ended up marrying out over email....
Yeah bars are not empty in places that encourage going to places without a car. If you need to be sober to go to and from a bar, then nobody will go to a bar.
The correct number of bars is equal to, one per every 20 people in the town and they should be at the corner of residential streets and not in the town proper. They all need to be called things like "The Slug and Cabbage"
For what reason would men randomly approach women? Women online have made it clear that doing so results in being made fun of, that women hate the features of testosterone-having men, and they've made it clear there is a long list of "icks" that you can't have.
The only dating i do is within the circles of friends.
Currently working on an absolute package, btw. Funny, fun, beautiful, sheeeeeesh.
The heart flutters at the thought.
I moved from Rio de Janeiro to São Paulo a couple years ago, and while I miss living 15 minutes walking for the beach, the club scene here is in another level. I even starting doing that years ago I tough was crazy that is going to a club for a couple of hours, getting out going to another club after.
Number stats. Also the song is not really related, it is about bush being reelected in 2004 because only 17% of young voters voted. The song is pretty much a tweet in the form of a song.
The difference is that primarily one of these parties will possibly suffer the consequences of both social perception and legal action while the other will not. If all possible attempts to advance or approach carry disproportionate amounts of risk, then it is foolish to knowingly progress without an obvious opportunity.
No that's totally different. You can approach women just don't be a douche/creep and respect the rejections and otherwise when it works you're in.
Your point holds under circumstances that make them uncomfortable like during night or when they're feeling unsafe because a few bad apples do invoke trauma.
If you're not a bad apple you have nothing to worry about. Except femcels, those ones are misandrists and theres no hope like for incels. Leave them to correct themselves or stay alone forever.
If you're not a bad apple you have nothing to worry about. Except femcels, those ones are misandrists and theres no hope like for incels.
It's not always immediately obvious who those are. So every interaction is a dice roll to see if you get a date, get rejected politely, or screamed at and publicly dragged through the mud. Remember the Instagram gym girls yelling at gym bros glancing in their general direction? For a lot of younger men, the consequences of the risk, however small, outweigh the reward.
And women run the gamble of getting murdered because some little man couldn't handle rejection, gonna be honest here bud, I think that's a little bit worse than being posted on someone's cringe compilation.
I think that speaking out loud about malicious activities towards women is important and yes, harassment is real, but it really feels like society became almost too sensitive when it comes to approaching women. Some years ago there were video campaigns where they would literally show how one men stops another from talking to stranger female, before he was given a change to be either creepy or nice and respectful with like assumption that this is bad anyway. And also who's to judge where's the boundary between being creep or not anyway, this can be very subjective.
And it's not my POV, I just speak about what I see in internet/media. Being gay introvert I couldn't care less about talking to strangers...
Dating is a social activity. I’m not sure how you do it without being able to perform socially, but there’s probably resources out there to learn from.
This comment said "newsflash not every animal gets to reproduce," which equates autistic people with less than favorable social skills to animals who deserve to die without experiencing love.
Mmmmhmm. Howbout you go fuck yourself Mr. "Deleted."
(Also side note, username checks out, but dating != reproducing necessarily and the person who posted that is a clinical moron.)
Given how a lot of women are, don't be creepy does mean "don't approach them at all. Unless I'm interested in you, which I won't tell you because men have to make the first move".
That wasn’t my experience at all when dating. Just treat them like a person. Be friends. If you get on ok, then make your move. They often beat me to it.
If the cold open approach isn’t working, change strategies.
I don't really see a good time in dating strangers, so bars and speed dating are unappealing. Same for dating apps. I'd rather have an outing with someone who I am familiar with and already jive with as a friend.
I don't think that these stats really matter that much because I already know that I'm not represented in these stats. That's obviously a biased view, but I don't think it's necessarily a incorrect for being biased.
The men who are successful with dating are already dating or active in places where they are finding better success than clubs and arranged dating events.
The men who are unsuccessful at dating are confused and wary about women, who are no longer the compliant trad-wife wannabes that these men were lead to expect exist in numbers by the likes of “manospherian” influencers like Peterson, Tate, et al.
Anon is probably in the US: social media, smartphones, and 3rd wave feminism in a deeply religious, traditional, and divided society would explain their problems.
"My programming tells me I have to disagree. I don't know why so I'll throw out the term I was taught to use"
ha! incel!
You sound like those right-wingers who think communism and socialism are evil terms that should be misconstrued as insults. "Guys, I called them a liberal! Where are my internet points?"
I assume years of collectively crying about it online has made something as simple and natural like dating seem like this unachievable task.
Not sure if it’s just me, but I feel like young people are less capable than ever to socialise. I thought I was a social pariah, but I don’t have shit on some people out there.
I think a big part of it is online dating is just how it's done these days.
But yes, we've done a great job of over-complicating something as simple as human interaction.
I think so too. Online dating is just too convenient. It’s easier to arrange a date while playing video games than going into a club or other places you don’t like to begin with. I won’t lament those places dying out. Fuck them, never felt comfortable there.
But online dating should have made things easier not worse. Then again those sites aren’t free of blame too.
The problem with online dating sites is that they have the wrong incentive. They want to make money, not bring people together into lasting relationships.
In stark contrast to pubs and nightclubs
Pubs make just as much money if you're in a relationship or not. The motivation is to sell you alcohol they don't care about your relationship status.
Fair point.
Also, I agree the profit incentive is a huge problem.
The difference is that pubs and nightclubs are not exclusively for people who are looking to meet other people. People go there with friends, to have a good time. Not so much with online dating sites.
Because there is a very real sentiment called "Don't shit where you eat." I learned it the hard way in two different workplaces. In the first one, we broke up and it ruined the work environment. In the second, the 'no' was expanded to HR complaints and lawsuits, again ruining the work environment. Knowing someone has (or had) romantic interest in you can be a pain, and it can definitely blow up a working relationship.
Because it's a social environment. You don't go purely on appearance usually, you see someone interesting, start chatting, maybe you flirt a bit and if the vibes are right you move forward. If anything it's far less appearance focused than the apps where it's a picture and a bio and not interaction.
As for why not coworkers and classmates and such, it's fine if flirtation is happening. But to a certain degree it's shitting where you eat. People have professional and to a lesser degree academic personas that are less who they really are than their social personas.
Expanding your pool of potential mates increases the chance of finding a mate.
And then there are people like me, who don't have the biggest friend group and it's predominantly male. And my workplace is also highly male dominated. So I don't have any women that I know that I could ask out.
pubs and nightclubs have limited tools for deciding who can interact with who, in comparison. No idea if that makes them work any better for matchmaking though.
I'm actually surprised no one has made an open source solution. Probably because of all of the complexity of moderating a system like that.
There's one, Alovoa.
I was a complete social reject in middle and high school so I don't even know how to people but I just assumed that was just me and my miserable circumstances apparently a lot of people have the same problem?
Same, I struggle with people. I think it's just that our kind of people are more active online.
There's no third places where you can just loiter.
From what I've seen/heard, it's not specifically the 'crying.' It's a general effect from online life. Online activities are much, much easier than in person. Want to feel a connection to someone? Here's vloggers, talking straight at you in painfully earnest tones about everything in their life. Want someone to entertain you? Here's half a dozen companies fighting to be the one you turn to. Hungry? Forget cooking. Here's delivery options from everywhere. Horny? Porn! It's all a click away and you don't even need to put on pants. If getting a need met enough to get you to tomorrow takes no effort, many people aren't going to put in the work to get, not even a guarantee, but only a chance at something better.
Well when men keep hearing “don’t approach us”, we shouldn’t be shocked when men don’t approach people.
Step 1- be attractive.
Step 2 - don't be unattractive.
I'm at 0/2 so far are there any more steps?
Get a dog or cat or both.
Step 3 - Repeat Step 1.
Be rich
Just be funny and not a piece of shit. My wife is so gorgeous, people immediately know I have a good sense of humor and I’m supportive. I’m certainly not rich.
Granted, this is not a good approach for the apps. You need to be able to sell yourself in person. Best dating strategy in this case is making many friends, and some of them will be charmed into attraction. If I were dating, speed dating would probably be workable for this approach.
Repeat until you get a date.
Being attractive helps a lot. Obviously. But you can put effort into your appearance. More than anything your personality is the thing that will get you a date.
Having tried Tinder 12 years ago, once, around the time I became an adult, why you'd choose it over asking people out in real life is beyond me. Especially if you're not very attractive.
The meta is all off haha
If there is one thing the internet has overwhelmingly seceded at it's convincing people that looks are absolutely everything. A lot of people I know tend to take their dating app experience as solid evidence of their romantic inaptitude. Even when it's all too well known they are scams designed to keep you on their platform for as long as possible.
I know that preaching about stepping up to women may feel like the same way as saying: "Just be attractive, bro." And if it does, to that I say: Do it and practise it for the sake of it. "That looks like a nice person, let's find out what they're about, for no damn reason at all."
Anyway, my two cents. And if it helps whenever you're scared of striking up a conversation just keep in mind: "The alternative is dating apps."
At the same time, lots of men are really shitty when they "approach" women.
"Don't approach us" is a response to men's behaviour, not the other way around.
So yeah don't approach women, got it.
Very incel-y, but sure.
Or, you could take it as a statement with the subtext that it clearly has, which is "dont approach us if youre going to be an asshole."
If you would rather stew in bitterness than adjust to the above, the first option is likely better for everyone.
I think if women meant that they would say it instead of "never approach women"
Blaming men for listening to women is some new level of crazy
Your inability to understand nuance might be part of the problem. Having to explain every single exception spelled out literally takes too long to get the guy acting creepy away from them.
You haven't explained anything, you just keep shitting out the same response hoping you'll shame me into going away.
Yeah, because you're drowning in self-pity instead of understanding that men are the problem in the vast majority of cases. You're bitching around instead, that's typical incel behavior.
You can go up to a woman and flirt with her - just don't be an asshole and accept a "no" without crying or further harassing her ;) It's really not hard. Most appreciate it.
So option 1 I guess.
Way to be mad at 4 billion people because you dont want to be a decent human being.
Cry me a river. I've never heard a women say "don't approach me", but I've heard many say "don't be a douche" and "stop thinking you're a fucking victim".
You already forgot the bear in the woods?
Apparently you already forgot their reasoning behind it. A bear is a known quantity. Humans can lie to gain your trust, then turn on you. They weren't saying all men are bad, they were saying that meeting a stand man alone in the woods - you have no idea how this person will act.
IDK women are not scared of me. Maybe the problem is you? Maybe you're not the victim you think you are and you're just an ass?
These guys are forgetting that you were the only man that they would prefer over the bear.
Congratulations
Geez you incels are stupid. Between victims like you and wannabe "alpha males" who wanna jerk one another, I agree mens are now a bunch of losers who wont ever get laid.
Get ratiod incel
I thought about it and you're right, you're a victim. Women are bad, just don't approach them and find other dudes likes you to hang out. Good luck.
So you're a pathetically tiny and weak man let, or you're just unaware of the feelings of women?
You're not a man, you're a victim lol. Get use to porn.
The fact that yall are still this mad about this just proves that the entire point behind the thought experiment is right.
The bear metaphor was obviously thinly veiled racism/xenophobia from the start. Lots of conservative/moderate women who are terrified of anyone who isn't white or who is "illegal"
That's...just no. Wtf? No.
Source: I've actually listened to women, in person, describe their reasoning, instead of making up my own justification for something like the incel community decided to do.
The goal was to increase fear of the "other" - which is a classic right wing tactic.
The bear meme was a conservative astroturfed campaign to push people right - which is why it appeared shortly before the 2024 US elections
This is very tinfoil hatty
That's like 10 whole new levels of not getting it
The goal was to increase fear of the "other" - which is a classic right wing tactic.
The bear meme was a conservative astroturfed campaign to push people right - which is why it appeared shortly before the 2024 US elections
I keep saying this cause it's a take a lot of people gloss over. I haven't dated in a while because I'm too broke to add anything else to my budget, dive bars included. Dating takes time and money, and if I get more of either, I'm using it to better my situation before thinking about dating.
In a time where real wealth is dwindling for most young men, I can imagine I'm not alone on this.
Going through the same problem, I was in uni during COVID, when it hit many things in my life changed or left so I shut down and unfortunately couldn't complete my degree in the end. Now I'm just job hunting and rebuilding and while I do feel pretty lonely at times, I realise I can't even consider talking to a girl romantically until I can rebuild myself (my own choice). Luckily I have this close female friend who i can talk to makes me feel a little less alone
Life advice from an old'ish dude: find a girl when you are broke. She will always love you, not the money. She will also love you in hardship and she won't care if you go for a walk or watch Netflix because it's cheaper. :)
Men don’t want to be branded ‘creepy’ and women have constantly stated they want to be left alone. Men listened.
Every time I see an article like this I think who fucking cares? Like what's going on with men? Its a generational and cultural thing its not men's fault. Dating sucks, people get rejected in ultra harsh ways, sometimes being filmed and then posted on social media for trying to ask someone out. If I was in the age range to be dating I wouldn't bother.
Might be a good time to downplay the importance of a relationship for a happy life then instead of trying to push the message that your life sucks if you don't have one.
My point was that making people feel worse about their situation likely won't improve the outcome. People either would be happy without a partner or they won't and those who won't don't need an external push to try to find a partner and both groups might feel worse if they are publicly branded a failure for not having a partner.
Yup and it’s a problem that only becomes worse over time
The first rule of…
Dude, you're not supposed to talk about Fight Club.
Talk about what now?
how do you know they are disaffected. Maybe they are single and just fine with it.
We all know that isn't true
"Influence" numbers of Andrew Tate & Musk says otherwise. I'm also assuming a large following of those two are unhappy single men.
Women might care?
Then perhaps we should expect changes/shifts in women's behavior to bridge the gap?
I don't think that cultural evolution is happening - look at Bumble, which had its premise/differentiation with women making the "first move." They eventually had to nix the feature, because...women didn't want to make the first move; they wanted to be pursued. Meanwhile, apps in general are just a minefield of emotional rejection, while Corporate ownership drags men through the muck as long as possible to get those $$$. So most men simply stop using apps and simply wait for some kind of IRL meet-cute. And that sparingly happens in a society that has very, very few places for non-commercial social overlap.
Commercial dating apps are a failed idea. We need something better
4chan funded their own dating app. It was alright.
Likeapproachingwomen?well then they should step up and start asking people out instead of waiting for guys to do it.
Then they get to step up and approach men for a change.
Are you sure this isn't exaggerating it a little? This may be anecdotal but I have never dealt with any such harsh rejection within my social circles (neither have my associates). What I'm trying to get at is that there may be a vocal minority that gets a lot of online attention.
Then again if thousands upon thousands of people see such a post (like on say r/Tinder) and take it as a common phenomenon it would still have the same effect.
Really the fear of it happening is enough. All you have to do is have it happen once, or know someone that it happened to, or see a video of it for that to scare you off of even trying.
That sounds like an irrational fear if you ask me. Like with fear of flying.
Honestly, I get it's a green text, but this is pretty easily explained. First off: dating is fucking expensive, and unfortunately standard gender roles means the dude foots the bill most of the time. Yes times are changing, but that's still pretty standard. Pair that with the fact that dudes usually have to make the first move (again, old gender standards) and the fact that social media adds another layer of risk of being ridiculed or making someone viral because they were 'crimge' or 'gave the girl the ick' and it's a pretty stacked deck. Hell, point one is such a strong weigh in that it's enough to explain all of it. People are more broke than ever, and if dating by default involves going out, well guess that date isn't going to happen.
I recently ended a 6 year relationship. I'm not going to settle down with anyone again unless they have their own stuff going on like a career and goals. I think a lot of women expect men to manage all the finances, set goals, plan vacations and provide stability but they don't want to do the traditional gender role stuff like cooking and cleaning or making a home. So what's the point? Why make someone else's life easier if they don't do the same for you? had a son young(I was 19 when I had him) and he's 11 now, so it's not like I'm dreaming of starting a family. Most women bring nothing to the table. And if you're lucky enough like me to have a good income, house, car, etc... you realize a lot of things are easier living alone.
Women want the princess treatment but don't know how to act like a princess. Beyond that, sex isn't all it's hyped up to be. I know I sound like a redpill incel but dating shouldn't be a priority for anyone. What's the rush? Don't fall for the first thing you see, make sure they're worth it first.
If you decide to date again, you should consider dating liberal women. The only women I have known who are like you describe are conservative(and I have met one or two who expect the princess treatment and then don't deliver on the prince treatment!). I know conservative men who expect traditional roles, and I know conservative men who expect to split the bills and say they'll split the housework but then the woman ends up doing all the housework anyway. The women in that situation end up feeling like you: if I'm doing the housework AND working, this is easier on my own!
In my liberal circles things seem to be a bit more evenly split, and both partners are often more independent.
It seems like you're happy on your own though, so you're doing the right thing by removing yourself from the dating pool! Maybe you'll find someone independent who will be a good match naturally, but I can't imagine a woman would want to work and split the housework with someone who has your attitude ("most women are bad and not worth having around") so you might need to change that if you do decide to get back into dating. I can't connect on what you mean on sex not being the best thing in the world and the literal purpose of life, but I do know my husband felt like you on that front before he met me. He thought people were just exaggerating on how good it is. Maybe, like him, you just haven't met the right match there either? It's not like I'm even that good in bed, if anything I'm a bit of a selfish lover. It's just that we're a good fit together. Good luck, man. I hope you find the right fit and realize men and women are equally selfish and equally selfless.
Controversial opinion, but I believe anesthesia is even better than sex. If you're ever been put under for surgery, you know what I'm talking about.
And they say that DMT can top even that. Only problem is that you have to take a trip outside the US to get it.
Oh my God! Someone else that enjoys being put under! I wouldn't say it is quite pleasurable, but definitely a fun experience. It's like time travel. You remember them telling you to count down from ten, you get to 7-6 and then BAM, you are waking up after the operation is done. I've had 3 surgeries and they have all been pretty fun experiences, but to be fair, I've never had complications and non of them were life threatening.
Kanye would agree
I get there's a bit of biterness here, but speaking as an older millennial this was my experience as well. Feminism created a weird gap of women becoming strong and independent, but with some meant 'im not going to do traditional fem, but expect you to do traditional man' with no compromise. I ended up finding a wonderful woman and we both split everything, but it took me 20 years.
I would guess the rush is that you would have someone to split your crippling living expenses with.
Re: “sex isn’t all it’s hyped up to be.” Sex with someone you love is the best thing.
Good sex is honestly a toss up, I've had great sex in horrible relationships and bad sex in great relationships. I understand being in love with someone enhances it but love is a feeling which is impossible to sustain permanently
Have you actually tried taking unrepentant time off, where you have no work or social obligations, and grabbing unhealthy snacks and drinks, curling up with a good game, and zoning out of reality for hours or days at a time?
Sex is nice and all, and we're hard wired to like it more than most activities, but it does not hold a single candle to unrepentant free time when you're not used to said free time.
Cosplaying as a free human? Yeah I would love to pretend for a little while and forget the shit planet I was forced to exist on.
I've not found loving someone to help with the quality of the sex all that much. Maybe they just didn't love me back or something. The crazy one was always great and was the only one who wanted it as often as I did but the rest of that relationship was a mess.
Agreed. Cost of living and wealth inequality are getting so bad it's breaking society. We see it everywhere and it's weird to prioritize non economic explanations.
Although hetero dating is just total bs, speaking as a queer gal. All that old cruft is rotten and it's gotta go
I went out on a first date with this woman recently and we just split the bill 50/50. It was a refreshing change of scenery. I think that should be standard so that nobody has any expectations on either side. As time goes on you can figure out how to allocate cash flow but first dates should never be 100% on one gender, unless one of them are rich (in my opinion at least.)
I can't speak for the whole 45% but some of us have heard stories from women about how that other 55% can behave. I think I'd rather wait for a lady to (never) ask me out then put someone in the position of thinking "Oh, is he gonna take it bad if I say no?"
It's a complicated issue with a lot of layers. Like a depressing onion.
Men were told to stop approaching women for any reason in any situation. So we did.
Dating apps and websites have overinflated women's egos and absolutely obliterated most mens egos. The average looking guy with a job and some normal hobbies is going to get very few matches where as most women get hundreds a day regardless of their level of employment or having hobbies. This leads to women believing they can find the millionaire bachelor if they just hold out for longer when in reality they are not the women that the millionaire bachelor is going to pick.
Most women still expect men to be chivalrous and pay on the first date, but they have no actual intention of pursuing a relationship with that guy. Unfortunately some women have learned they can get a free meal and entertainment for an evening at no cost if they just say yes to dates they have no interest in. Most guys have been burned by that as some point.
A lot of women are still playing games. Saying no because they want the man to "chase" them or "fight" for them. Most guys have stopped entertaining that behavior whatsoever but I still see so many women doing it. As men we can't tell if that's what you want or if you actually mean it when you say no so the majority of us will immediately stop pursuing you if you decline us. I'm 33 and women are STILL doing this. I thought it would taper off as I got farther from high school aged girls but from my experience it has not gone down in any significant way.
There are a million other reasons and nuanced details but I am tired of typing.
Myself and most men I know around my age who all did very well in the dating scene when we were younger have just completely given up on dating now. We have zero interest in putting in the time, energy and money into something that yeilds nothing in return these days.
Like most things I think this will reach a breaking point and things will shift but I'm not sure when that will be or what will push things over the edge.
18-25 in 2025 means 13-20 when COVID happened.
We're going to see the long term effects of people in that micro generation losing much of what the high school social scene represented, that low stakes junior league of forming new relationships, where meeting is easy, with lots of natural opportunities for free interaction, and making new connections is normal. Learning to flirt in that environment is a stepping stone towards being able to navigate the adult world, where people don't have your schedule planned out for you, and you won't naturally see the same people 100+ days out of the year, and have 50+ chances to shoot your shot when you're ready.
And yes, sure, the loss of third places and changing social dynamics and gender roles and the economy play a role, too, for pretty much everyone under 40. But it's worth pointing out that this specific age cohort has special challenges on top of the issues that everyone else is living, too.
reading this thread I'm glad I'm a removed in a relationship. my spouse is the best. i got so fucking lucky.
there's a massive epidemic of loneliness out there. the loss of the free/cheap third spaces, lockdowns, and social media have made a fucking shitstorm. I'm scared for the generations below me just starting to enter the workforce. so many kids just unable to function properly.
i can't solve it. but I've been putting my devices down more and (trying) to get out more. get more sunlight and fresh air, even if i just sit outside and watch the ducks. it's hard out there. give yourself a break, okay? eat a snack and take a walk.
Social changes have caused chaos. A lot of the "traditional" dating methods existed to give structure to finding a partner. Unfortunately, those structures got trashed by the general update to gender roles. While these changes are great in many ways, it left young people in limbo. It was eventually replaced with online dating, for many. Unfortunately, that, in turn has been trashed by corporate takeover.
You've also got the outlier problem. The problematic men and women make up a small proportion of the population, but do a disproportionate amount of dating. A lot of the complaints are aimed at the problematic groups. Unfortunately, they don't care. It's mostly the non-problematic people who get the wrong message.
I think the effect of other societal changes not immediately associated with relationships might be underestimated here too, such as the commercialization of any and all free time activities where one might casually meet people of the preferred gender on a regular basis combined with the limited disposable income. Or (in the US at least) the elimination of sidewalks and other public places where one might encounter people from your own neighborhood outside of a car. More customized media consumption leading to fewer guaranteed shared topics to discuss compared to the time when generally everyone watched the same things on TV and read the same news at a similar time. I could probably come up with other examples but the point is that a lot of things changed that make just meeting people to consider to ask out much more difficult than it used to be a few decades ago.
I fully agree. A lot of entertainment options have moved from self organising to a fire hose model. It used to be you just gave youngsters a place to go, and let them work out what to do with it. Now it's hyper-commercialised. Everyone sits/stands there and absorbs entertainment from a central source.
It's also not just young adults and teenagers. Pre teens and early teens have nowhere to really interact organically. Without that solid foundation of peer socialising, they are trying to build on soft sand.
It doesn't help that society is actively hostile to groups of kids and teens. Malls increasingly ban unaccompanied minors, "get off my lawn" attitudes lead to closing down of public parks and rec type facilities, violent paramilitary police are a threat to their safety, etc.
I agree that throwing young people together in the same place doesn't automatically just work and there needs to.be some sort of support system for people who fall through the cracks
Change is not chaos. Tone it down. It’s just an adjustment to changing status quo.
For me personally, it's a combination of factors. A non zero number of my exes lost interest after a while and it damaged my ego pretty badly. Dating Apps are a string of getting ghosted with the occasional date that leads to me paying for drinks and dinner, only to get ghosted. I've always been a shy person and I can only handle so much failure before I don't want to play anymore. I missed out on the high school and college dating scenes and it shows. There is one common denominator in all of my dating failures and it's me.
Women don't want to be approached in public.
Men learn this quickly.
Also that speed dating stat is totally a lie, every dating event is a sausage fest.
I'm married to a tinder girl now so say what you want about that but for me, it was fear of further social ostracization. I always struggled to fit in, in grade school because I was asian in a sea of white kids. Some kids were literally afraid to touch the "chinese boy" (i was korean but try telling that to rabid white elementary and middle school kids looking for any reason to other anyone). I became a huge people pleaser and tried not to stick out for any reason. I had also seen how the "popular" kids treated any of the geeks who tried to shoot their shot and I didn't want to fuck up any of the social capital I thought I had. It obviously got better in late high school as kids grew up but the damage was done. I had a few girlfriends in high school and college but they mostly came after me or we kind of just found ourselves getting close so there wasn't any formal "asking out" type of stuff. Either way I probably blew a lot of romantic opportunities but it is what it is.
I got a boy due in June so hopefully I can instill the confidence in him that I didn't have.
You mean you met her on tinder. What makes her a tinder girl and not you a tinder girl?
Edit meant boy
Obviously he means she is dry and flammable, thus is great for starting fires.
My wife is also a wooden mannequin.
Ah okay, he must be in the green text
His cock
Thanks for clearing that up
Less that and more he likes his masculinity
Not exactly a disqualifying characteristic for a woman, all things considered
sure. My cock
We are commonly referred to as tinder folk
Unless the person you respond to is trans the fact that they describe themselves as being referred to as a "chinese boy" would suggest that they are likely not a girl.
Thanks! That’s helps!
Is Anon talking out their ass with those stats, or is this actually true?
Theres definitely a truth to it, younger people are drinking less and less every generation, which takes its toll on bars and to some extent clubs too.
Isn’t it also because going out nowadays is expensive as hell especially if you live in a big city. Young people working part time aren’t going to waste one month’s salary on one night out. And just hanging outside in public sharing a beer will make a nosy boomer call the cops on you for loitering. So the younger generations have learned how to have fun at home without booze.
There's never been a point in my life where going out drinking all night has made financial sense. A meal and a beer at a pub, sure, but bars are expensive. And loud. And cramped.
The kids are on to something.
You just have to live in the right city with sufficiently high rates of alcoholism! In Fargo, ND you could get a tall 200 lb+ man proper sloshed over an evening downtown across 5-8 bars for $50 or less as recently as 2019. Not as cheap as drinking at home, but enough that most folks without kids working full-time could do it every other weekend.
See, but that's the rub! Who the fuck wants to spend $50 and go to that many bars? I could get a new AAA game for that much that I'll play for hundreds of hours. Or 10 indie games that I'll play for longer!
$50 fro 6pm-2am is cheaper per hour than a movie ticket or dinner at a restaurant, and hitting that many bars is easy when they’re all on the same 2-3 block stretch!
Well there's your problem, North Dakota doesn't exist.
If you heard the horror stories I heard from friends that went there to work the oil fields, this would be a very very good thing.
$50 or less in 2019? I live in a more urban area of the US than this and if you pregame and go with friends, you can get the equivalent of 5 drinks at 3 bars for well under $20. In 2025.
Having fun does not need to make financial sense.
And yet finances are what enable some kinds of fun. $10 dollar indie game you play for a month or one night out for $200. Guess which men are picking.
Hell, $29 and the factory continues to grow for years of entertainment. That's not even a full meal with drink and tip at most bars.
$200 for 1 night out is crazy. Can't you just pregame a bit (courtesy of public transit), then go to some bars and get some cheap drinks for $5 or less each?
It does if you're poor.
Drinking less is probably good. I doubt that automatically leads to less dating.
we need cannabis lounges
Fuck, and I was just reading Homelessness Is A Housing Problem, and they were talking all about stats and to not buy into intuitive narratives, and low and behold, I have bought into this without looking it up. Guess I should get onto that now.
(And by reading the book, I mean I use a GlaDOS voice pack from Hugginface using SherpaTTS. What a vibe.)
wait what, you can get a GlaDOS voice pack for TTS engines? damn. i guess there goes my afternoon. thanks for the hint 😁
does it try to murder you?
No, but it does try to destroy my self-esteem. One could say that is a type of murder.
Here's the study https://datepsychology.com/risk-aversion-and-dating/
Well, that's depressing. Although I understand why, if you're not socially confident, approaching a woman romantically can feel terrifying.
I do find it interesting that most young women do want to be approached more, I wasn't expecting that.
I also note the study is silent on how many women have approached a man, and I don't think they even asked the question.
Depressing? Why? One could choose to live in certain way.
This thread is an example of why men aren’t dating.
“I’ve had painful lived experiences and faced unbalanced and unfair expectations, so I’ve decided dating isn’t worth my time right now”
“You’re an incel”
It doesn’t really matter what you say, it’s the fact that you said it as a man that will garner disrespect from some regardless.
So many comments echoing "women told us to stop approaching us, so we did!"
I mean no offense, truly, but you missed the point if that's the message you took. It wasn't "Do not, under any circumstances, speak to a woman" it was, "if you shoot your shot and she's not interested, move on and don't make it weird. If she is at work, be very careful as customer service does not equal flirting." Yes, there are some grey areas (not sure even the best gentleman could slide up to a woman alone in a parking lot and not freak her out), but some of you are kicking up the board without even moving a piece. Stop pushing the narrative that only attractive men can speak to women. Not only are you assuming you're not attractive by saying that (which cannot be good for your confidence) , you're reducing women's feelings and concerns as being blindly shallow and unwarranted.
The world is not full of only beautiful people, yet people still live and love. Not to dismiss the difficulties (as an uggo myself, I get it), but you can get out there, I know you can.
Third places
And the lack thereof.
Yes that’s indeed one of the big problems.
Fourth kinds
A lot of people in this thread are talking about how much women suck because of X, Y, Z. But like... have you tried not dating shitty women? Or at least not getting so hung up on a woman who treats you poorly? Yeah, it sucks to be treated badly, but consider that you just dodged a bullet. You don’t need women like that in your life. Find a woman you actually connect with, someone you share interests with, not just someone you want to sleep with.
Two hard truths a lot of single men need to reckon with:
1: Most people are kind of shitty, and therefore, most women are kind of shitty. I could go on about how consumer culture and social media encourage toxic traits, but the fact of the matter is you should focus on not being a shitty person yourself, and you shouldn’t settle for shitty people either.
2: With number one in mind, you need to broaden your horizons regarding what kind of woman you’re attracted to. Porn and social media have rotted our brains when it comes to attraction. Maybe I’m just pervy, but honestly, I can find something attractive in just about everyone. 90% of people are at least a 7/10 if they put in some effort, and a 7/10 who you truly vibe with is better than a 10/10 who treats you like shit. And trust me, when you form a true romantic connection with someone, they become even more attractive in your eyes.
There are good, beautiful women out there, I know because I’m marrying one. We met online, and she’s one of the kindest and smartest people I’ve ever met, and I find her more beautiful than anyone else in the world. And I’m a fat, impoverished, autist. If I can do it, so can you.
I think a lot of men are just satisfied staying home playing their video game of choice while wanking it or using online apps for hookups.
Dating is a lot of work.
People in this thread are fucking wild... In college, and before I met my wife, I'd just get fucking trashed at house parties and then try to hit on anything with a pulse. Now, I'm not some "lady's man," and I didn't pull them all, but it definitely worked well enough to get me laid when I wasn't dating someone.
Shocker - never maced or reported for sexual assault?
I don't know what the problem is there but I can say Im stretched too thin. I once went on Prozac and it completely changed my energy levels for a time. Unfortunately, the effects wore off within a year and everything was a slog again. It just sucks to know what it feels like to have excess energy and all the dopamine that comes with it only to go back to critically low levels.
The end of the day the amount of time I would need to sort all my shit out is just not afforded to me. So I go with incremental improvements and the way things are, the world is getting shittier faster than I'm getting better.
That feeling of not being able to keep up is very real.
Ah, work/life balance
fr, i miss just having time to be bored. Fuck, it just feels like being a perpetual hamster on a wheel.
Young people were every fucking bit as cruel back then. Source: same age bracket as you and was bullied nearly to suicide
+1. In addition, schools frequently side with the bully because it is easier to deal with a victim's parents than a bully's parents.
Also bullying is an informal form of social control they don't have to do themselves nor take responsibly for unless it involves serious physical violence.
Trash social media has connected the worst sort of people and given them a platform to share their toxic traits.
So cruel, but uncreative people now have wider options to be shitty.
People say kids these days are somewhat nicer than generations past.
I was in college by the time you were in high school, and I totally had friends who had that happen. I don't know if kids are more cruel now or if you had an exceptionally kind group of peers.
It's because n=1 in either case doesn't speak for the average or general picture of what happens. Both your posts are just anecdotes.
I'm their age and I've seen it observed that that time block was about the nicest high schoolers have ever been.
Okay, they were laughed at. Then what? Did the guy blow it off and try with someone else, or never try again? It's not how many times you get knocked down...
Get knocked down 10+ times and you just don’t get back up again.
Lucky you, I asked a girl out once in HS, got denied, afterwards she and her friends would often look at me and giggle during classes or breaks and avoid any contact with me. Later, through a friend, I learned they came up with the nickname "priest" for me (as in catholic priest, who has to vow for celibacy), as that was the "obvious career choice" for me
I was in High School in '93-'96. I graduated a year early. The kids were, if anything, worse back then. Y'all are much more empathetic over all, than the kids I went to HS and University with.
Because we were raised by Boomers, the least empathetic generation in modern history.
The inertia of fucking Boomers is an unwelcome gift that won't go away for years to come.
It's the 1% vs the working class, not generation vs generation.
Its more of a human thing actually. I always find anti bullying measures kind of a waste of time. Adults will bully you way more. It just isn't a swirly.
it's making you fill out an application on a job prospects website even though the info is on the resume.
It's every month when we pay rent.
It's every paycheck we receive that doesn't include our surplus labor value.
It's a overdraft fee from your bank.
It's ComcastXfinity purchasing your local government and ensuring you have no alternatives for an ISP.
It's the "unprecedented call volume" you wait through that happens because the customer service phone line is purposely understaffed.
It's your health insurance denying your claim.
It's everywhere. Just because we hide it behind a curtain of the economic system doesn't mean it changes the nature of these interactions.
Besides, don't you want your kid to be successful? Bullies are successful as fuck. Every parent should be teaching their child to be the biggest asshole douchebag bully ever.
Hopefully you have the same luck after your first divorce.
First two times are just luck!
Not a wish, just statistics. You have a higher chance of getting divorced than staying together.
That statistic applies to all marriages and not to first marriages, also iirc it was only for a few years. Divorce rates have been on a generally downward trajectory for quite a while
That makes sense. A lot of bad marriages were only held together by divorce being illegal and they all flew apart at once. Then things have slowed to a more natural base rate
There's also a lot less pressure to marry early or at all. Like, I'm married because I love my wife and wanted to marry her. Had I been pressured to marry younger I probably wouldn't've met her and may have resented being pressured in before I was ready.
Lots of people married right put of high school so they could bang and now they're stuck together. Still happens in really religious communities
all marriages would include first marraiges, what you're trying to say is that people who divorce, are more likely to divorce more than once, several times even. Which disproportionately pushes up the divorce rate.
Now would be a good time to pull stats for first marriage divorce if there are any good ones.
VR porn and furry conventions
If I had the money to go to a furry convention...
Well, statistically I'd blow it all on a fursona pic, but hey, who knows?
Disclaimer: I'm not 18-25.
I have a ton of women friends (more than men ATM) and have solid evidence that I am a significantly attractive man. I'm also bi so my options are a tad more broad than average.
Even with this I can say that dating is unpleasant and I have never asked for one and barely do them (women are rarely bold enough to be the initiator). It feels like a socially awkward job interview where I have to spend money I don't have and I fucking hate job interviews.
Admittedly, I also am autistic, socially anxious, and sexually repressed (American sex culture sucks).
Who are these "women" they mention? Some new human-like species?
They are a post-war invention by the CIA
Where can I find one? My country's tech is kinda backward.
Start anything that idiots would call "communism" and the CIA will send a coup to your country in 1 week or your money back, guarantee!
Damn, I thought I was the only basement dweller
We are to broke to spend $10 on a beer and $10 on Frenchfries at a bar.
It's free to post a dick Pic on grindr and have a guy deliver himself to your basement to give you the most enthusiastic blow job of your life.
I just got divorced at 30 after 7 years and I'm probably not going to get involved with a woman again. I'm not interested in having kids because the world is ending so it's essentially a no win situation unless someone can change my mind on this.
Had a crush on one of my friends for years and she wasn't interested even when I got divorced. Till I bought my house and now she wants in on my life.
I'm not saying all women are bad but I just don't see the risk being worth it. My ex wife ruined my life after many years of happiness.
There are a lot of positives being in a relationship but way more negatives. I'm just happier alone.
Tbh playing Magic the Gathering or Warhammer 40k with random dudes at a hobby store is cheaper and more fun than most traditional dates I've been on.
Well, there was a time when women were THE thing making men happy. In modern age, we have computers.
It's not quite the same.
My computer is always in the mood for whatever activity I wanna do. My wife is usually too busy with her computer.
You vs the Computer she tells you not to worry about
Are you taking the time away from the computer to participate in her interests?
Yes?
You're right, computers are way better
Don't date robots
After my long relationship (7+), i started dating again. Unfortunately i discovered that no one is looking for a meaningful connection or a serious conversation. Everyone wants to catered and be heard, no one wants to listen for just a second. I actively stopped myself from flirting/dating anymore, it’s just a complete waste of time 🤷♂️im sorry to say many many many girls are VERY VERY superficial people.
I've tried and I'm still trying. As someone who is a bit shorter than average and is socially awkward, it's tough. Recently I've been able to get dates with 3 girls from dating apps (due to me being better at flirting and getting a few more matches than before), but they all went nowhere.
1 girl didn't seem to want any touching or flirty things on the first date and the conversation wasn't smooth, so I friendzoned her.
The other 2 girls immediately started with a flirty text conversation.
I hit it off with first one over text, we were having long phone calls and sending raunchy stuff over text. I had one short date with and was planning a spicier 2nd date with but she cancelled because I asked her to be my Valentine on Valentine's Day.
The 2nd one wanted to take things slower, and friendzoned me after 2 longer dates. She also wasn't that into touching.
I never kissed any of these girls. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, especially with the first flirty girl.
These types of posts always get so spicy, and not in a fun way.
For me at this point in my life trying to find someone to date just isn't worth the effort. I have limited time, money, and mental energy and there are better ways to spend it than on women who for the most part won't be interested in me anyway. Unless the relationship turns out great and we're amazingly compatible it's going to add more stress than it's worth. I still go out with my friend (about 30% of whom are women) and we do various activities that I enjoy. I have hobbies that interest me and basically all my free time is occupied between stuff I want to do and chores. If some woman I know I get along with likes me enough to pursue something romantic I might give it a shot but otherwise I'm comfortable with things as they are and I don't want to risk fucking that up by adding someone else into the mix.
Let me offer a scenario; two drunk people who wouldn't normally go near each other spend a night together. The morning comes, regret is in the air for both parties, which of these two people is most at risk?
The correct answer is: "the one who doesn't accuse the other on social media".
Just remember, no-one gave any indication of gender there. It's not really about gender at this point - it's the fact we've constructed a world where a casual encounter has the potential to become the prisoner's dilemma if it is regretted afterwards.
That's not a world where people take risks on a date, especially if physical intimacy is on the cards. To much risk!
Women have been told they only need to exist to be desired and are not putting any effort at the beginning of the relationship and men are getting tired of doing all the lift without any reciprocation.
That has been my experience, anyway, and I'm getting tired of meeting women that show no effort to make things work.
My kid is almost 27, and he hasn't been on a date since he was six. The little girl down the street, with very strange parents, asked him over for a play date.
(No, I don't say anything to him about it. It's none of my business.)
Maybe you should check in with him, make sure he isn't feeling lonely or depressed. As long as he's okay with it, great, but if there's support he needs, don't assume he can handle it all alone.
Isn't it, though? I'm in my 40's and still rely on my family for advice, and to continue to grow and develop as a person. I have a lot to learn, and I think other people's thoughts and experiences are helpful for getting through things.
Tbh I would probably try speed dating if I was looking for someone these days. I don't think I would have at 18-25 though.
Too busy playing WoW. Ain't nobody got time for that...
It's giving
April – 1805.
Napoleon is master of Europe.
Only the British fleet stands before him.
Oceans are now battlefields.
All the homies are improvising on the violin with their very close male friends.
In the grim darkness of the 18th Century there is only Sharpe.
Now that's soldierin'
It's a lie.
Part of an attempt to further isolate people and blame men for Capitalism killing relationships
100% agree with this. One of the reasons my ex gave when we broke up was that I'm a workaholic. At the time I worked at a newspaper and sometimes finished 20 - 30 minutes after my regular time when a big story came in late.
Maybe because they are getting advice from other men how to trick a girl into giving them sex, this why alot look to pickup artist, it involves manipulation and tricks. They got so used to it, they don't even ask people
So... Over the phone doesn't count? Texting doesn't count? Email? Those don't count? I would think that in this day and age texting would be the normal way to ask a girl out for a first date.
You know it's REALLY hard for someone not super social to ask a girl out in person. I'm 50 and i think I've never asked a girl out for a first date in person.... But then again, I am an introverted nerd so that's probably to be expected. Hell, I asked the girl I ended up marrying out over email....
Do people ask each other out or do they just hang out?
Speed dating is dumb anyway
Tell that to the woman you’re not speed dating rn
Men are finally leaving women alone? I never thought I would see this day!
if bars are empty that's because you live in a weird suburb
Yeah bars are not empty in places that encourage going to places without a car. If you need to be sober to go to and from a bar, then nobody will go to a bar.
Americans need to adopt the UK system for bars.
The correct number of bars is equal to, one per every 20 people in the town and they should be at the corner of residential streets and not in the town proper. They all need to be called things like "The Slug and Cabbage"
in my experience every single person in a suburban american bar is drinking and then driving home
One more reason to consider suburbia a dystopian hellscape.
It is
Which through natural selection results in reduced amounts of bar goers.
Alcohol is damned expensive at bars, and the number of people who drink is going down over time.
For what reason would men randomly approach women? Women online have made it clear that doing so results in being made fun of, that women hate the features of testosterone-having men, and they've made it clear there is a long list of "icks" that you can't have.
The only dating i do is within the circles of friends.
Currently working on an absolute package, btw. Funny, fun, beautiful, sheeeeeesh.
The heart flutters at the thought.
I usually get people asking for my number or socials when they're interested, asking out tends to happen over electronic communication after that.
My process is basically
I also get told I'm very attractive in various verbage near daily so 🤷♀️
Idk, just be respectful and don't be pushy if they're trying to let you down (and pay attention for if they're trying to do it gently)
I moved from Rio de Janeiro to São Paulo a couple years ago, and while I miss living 15 minutes walking for the beach, the club scene here is in another level. I even starting doing that years ago I tough was crazy that is going to a club for a couple of hours, getting out going to another club after.
The beginning of the tweet reminds me of this song:
Song link: https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=GUN3q2p-k3I
What's the reference?
Number stats. Also the song is not really related, it is about bush being reelected in 2004 because only 17% of young voters voted. The song is pretty much a tweet in the form of a song.
Oh.
Lol good to know that we've always punched down at the young disenfranchised people for not magically saving the rest of the human race.
Just like the "protest voters" making Trump win
The difference is that primarily one of these parties will possibly suffer the consequences of both social perception and legal action while the other will not. If all possible attempts to advance or approach carry disproportionate amounts of risk, then it is foolish to knowingly progress without an obvious opportunity.
is the joke here that this thread is fake and gay?
Did i do a 4chan correctly?
EDIT: this comment section is filled with children apparently, not sure they knew lemmy existed, but i guess that answers that question huh.
Too busy conforming to some Podcasters idea of masculinity
Didn't they explicitly ask via #metoo movement and what not for men to NOT approach them directly ever or else they screem that this is harassment?
No that's totally different. You can approach women just don't be a douche/creep and respect the rejections and otherwise when it works you're in.
Your point holds under circumstances that make them uncomfortable like during night or when they're feeling unsafe because a few bad apples do invoke trauma.
If you're not a bad apple you have nothing to worry about. Except femcels, those ones are misandrists and theres no hope like for incels. Leave them to correct themselves or stay alone forever.
It's not always immediately obvious who those are. So every interaction is a dice roll to see if you get a date, get rejected politely, or screamed at and publicly dragged through the mud. Remember the Instagram gym girls yelling at gym bros glancing in their general direction? For a lot of younger men, the consequences of the risk, however small, outweigh the reward.
And women run the gamble of getting murdered because some little man couldn't handle rejection, gonna be honest here bud, I think that's a little bit worse than being posted on someone's cringe compilation.
It's not a competition.
They're explaining why men might not approach. Jfc.
I think that speaking out loud about malicious activities towards women is important and yes, harassment is real, but it really feels like society became almost too sensitive when it comes to approaching women. Some years ago there were video campaigns where they would literally show how one men stops another from talking to stranger female, before he was given a change to be either creepy or nice and respectful with like assumption that this is bad anyway. And also who's to judge where's the boundary between being creep or not anyway, this can be very subjective.
And it's not my POV, I just speak about what I see in internet/media. Being gay introvert I couldn't care less about talking to strangers...
Not all men. You. They don't want YOU to approach them.
*you all
If you mistook ‘don’t be creepy’ for ‘don’t approach women at all,’ then yeah. You’re probably in a mental place where you shouldn’t approach.
No dating for the autists who aren't good with social cues, got it.
Dating is a social activity. I’m not sure how you do it without being able to perform socially, but there’s probably resources out there to learn from.
This comment said "newsflash not every animal gets to reproduce," which equates autistic people with less than favorable social skills to animals who deserve to die without experiencing love.
Mmmmhmm. Howbout you go fuck yourself Mr. "Deleted."
(Also side note, username checks out, but dating != reproducing necessarily and the person who posted that is a clinical moron.)
Given how a lot of women are, don't be creepy does mean "don't approach them at all. Unless I'm interested in you, which I won't tell you because men have to make the first move".
That wasn’t my experience at all when dating. Just treat them like a person. Be friends. If you get on ok, then make your move. They often beat me to it.
If the cold open approach isn’t working, change strategies.
Well, we need referrals from friends to know men are safe. Even then i take it with a grain of salt
I just don't think people want men around.
I don't really see a good time in dating strangers, so bars and speed dating are unappealing. Same for dating apps. I'd rather have an outing with someone who I am familiar with and already jive with as a friend.
I don't think that these stats really matter that much because I already know that I'm not represented in these stats. That's obviously a biased view, but I don't think it's necessarily a incorrect for being biased.
Are the non-ace okay?
The men who are successful with dating are already dating or active in places where they are finding better success than clubs and arranged dating events.
The men who are unsuccessful at dating are confused and wary about women, who are no longer the compliant trad-wife wannabes that these men were lead to expect exist in numbers by the likes of “manospherian” influencers like Peterson, Tate, et al.
Anon is probably in the US: social media, smartphones, and 3rd wave feminism in a deeply religious, traditional, and divided society would explain their problems.
Lol. That's some incel shit thinking.
You sound like those right-wingers who think communism and socialism are evil terms that should be misconstrued as insults. "Guys, I called them a liberal! Where are my internet points?"
Bro you literally used the term '3rd wave feminism'. Have some self-awareness.
What are you arguing? 3rd wave feminism doesn't exist?
and you sound like an incel, sorry...
If you repeat it often enough, I becomes the truth in your head.
What? The fact that you use incel rhetoric because you can't assume that you're a loser and need to blame it on feminism?
Third wave feminism is the "kill all men" wave
It's the ideology taken to the extreme, it's not really condusive for living together
You know what? You're right! Women's rights and freedoms are the reason I can't get my dick wet.
Way to ignore all context and focus on the one thing triggering you. "This tree in particular, sir!"
Most of the men in these comments have never tried speaking to a women.
bad take
Maybe they're just chronically online complaining that there's no place for men in this world?
Well I think it’s still part of the problem if 60% of men are addicted to a thing
Maybe growing a spine and doing something of their life would help. Everyone as access to social media, not just men.
Can you point to another time in history where everyone who was doing something wrong magically self reflected and changed their ways?
incels always got an excuse.
refuses to wipe, wonders why women don't like me
I guess I triggered non-wipers
This is a western world problem. In other countries this isn't as much of a problem.
This thread is just incels outing themselves
They'd rather complain about being single and resent women than become vulnerable enough to make a real human connection.
Chasing women used to be presented as the reason for art and accomplishment.
Are the kids alright? (I fear it is more than a vocal minority with jobs writing that are having issues.)
This generation of men should be called the V generation cause they identify as victims.