It definitely does not need to be one or the other. Oftentimes therapy could help in the relationship department considerably. Deep hurt is hard to get through alone, yet I hope more and more people understand there is help out there.
If relationships are a two way street, and one person is hurting enough to affect their role within it all there should be no shame in reaching out in that way. It could help a lot. It's a shame there's still so much stigma around therapy.
I dont think that stigma is going to get any better any time soon (at least in the US). The past year has given me significantly less trust that anything medical remains private; i have no trust that things said in confidence will not be weaponized against me by the current government. There have already been cases of states demanding medical records for pregnancy, abortion, and transgender records, and texas actually got their hands on some records IIRC.
My therapist says she takes a bare minimum of notes because she understands the fear people have of private info getting leaked. Maybe someone worried about that could ask about their notes process during the therapist-finding stage.
So, uh, if this is what men need at the end of the day, what does this guy think women need at the end of their day? Or is it only men "fighting battles" in their day-to-day lives? Because this surely implies that either men are needlessly making things harder for themselves if women somehow manage to avoid daily battles, or that women don't need comfort after their daily battles... and wouldn't that make men, who do need that help, the weaker sex?
It's true. As soon as I'm out of sight of my husband I dock like a Roomba and wait until he returns so I can wipe away his tears and give him a foot rub.
All women have to do is iron his shirt and make sure there's food on the table when he gets in. He's out in the real world doing manly things to bring home the bacon.
Every woman I've ever dated has expected me to do what they call "being there for them" in what I can only assume to be situations similar to whatever he's hyperbolically referring to as "battles," and I was happy to, and they did the same for me which I appreciated. But maybe since it's just taken for granted that men do that for women (people itt seem not to realize being supportive is a bare minimum expectation for any partner), and according to the post it is mommy issues when a man wants it in return, it sounds to me like women are the weaker one.
Did I do the gender war right? Do we really have to "men bad women bad" wanting supportive partners ffs? This is why I don't talk to people anymore, cats are better.
Yeah, in touch with your feelings != dumping your feelings out of a firehose at a partner who's expected to just soak them all up once a week, then pretending they don't exist the rest of the time.
It's a gradient, but this particular case is distasteful because the man is expecting his partner to do literally free therapy, rather than work with a professional. It's more akin to treating your partner as an emotional dumping ground than opening up.
If this is happening in the context of a more equitable relationship, where they both take turns supporting each other, then it's totally different, though.
It doesn't even sound like he wants free therapy. He wants a woman to kiss him on the head and tell him what a good boy he is and how hard he worked, while ignoring any problems he might have. I don't see a therapist's role as "nurturing and restoring" unless you're dating them.
Sorry, not sorry. If he begins this with "Men do not need a therapist." (And many men do) And then declare that the women men need be soft and caring while verbally presenting the man as a hero who fights his daily battles... that's just toxic bullshit as fuck.
I'm okay with somebody accepting and wanting traditional gender roles, everyone's got their own taste in potential partners and need to find the person right for them.
But declaring what "men" need and then demanding not only traditional but toxically overblown gender roles for everyone is just... BAH! And the disapproval for therapy, or telling "men" that they don't need therapy, only a mommy, when many of us do indeed need therapy... that's just indicative of the most bullshit incel-alpha-baby-needs-a-mommy mindset.
If you're a guy and in touch with your feelings (like me, for example), yes, lean on your partner if you need to and they are okay with it. If you are an emotional person, be emotional. But don't demand or expect to just be able to vomit your shit on your partner and they being okay with it and then cleaning the corner of your mouth with a tissue... Your partner is not free therapy, do not treat them like somebody providing a service.
I think a modern dysfunction of intergender relationship is an increase in transactional intimacy. Whether it's dating, sex, or emotional, I think a lot of men are paying for their intimacy.
There is a disconnect between people noticing that love is not unconditional, and thinking love is completely transactional.
Of course if love is never useful for one of the participating parties involved, then this/their love will fade. But people interpret this fact in the way that love should always be exactly as useful for all parties involved all the time.
But in reality, it should be fine if sometimes maybe one side is more selfish, less giving, sometimes the other side. Sometimes one side gives more emotional support, but the other side is more physically caring. And so on. Love doesn't need to be perfectly equal, it just needs to make all parties involved better than if they were without the love.
But when you're very competitive and selfish, and it's hard to quantify each person's usefulness to each other, it's easy to always think that what you give is more than what someone else gives. Constantly having arguments about how you think things should be.
It can easily be a case of personal perception of a relationship, at least my generation was constantly told their only value in life is utilitarian, when that's your mind set you're going to assume that's the only value you have in relationships as well. Again, therapy would help a lot so men can see that their partners do value them outside of their assigned value culture.
I agree with what you and @Azzu @[email protected] are saying, in the vein that traditional gender roles have done more harm than good.
I think the culture is shifting but there's also a weird backlash to the change, like the toxic Masculinity of Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson, or the Trad Wife movement, or the rise of Only Fans and other pay-to-play parasitic economies.
I think a certain subgroup of men are willing to give money in exchange for intimacy as a way to exercise power in that dynamic, as if it lessens their vulnerability.
Relationships should of course be mutually beneficial, and therefore are inherently transactional. But I also find it ironic that whether men paying for online dating apps to meet women, paying for drinks, paying for sex, or paying for therapy, it's all hitting their wallets.
You gotta remember that the traditional gender roles come from somewhere. There are many that detest them so much that they can't even imagine that there must be something in the human psyche that came up with them.
There are plenty of people that know about the traditional gender roles doing more harm than good, yet still choosing to mostly follow them, in a non-toxic way, because they are what actually feels best for them.
I think the radical feminist push of trying to achieve perfect outcome equality in all areas is as misguided as the rigid, inflexible attempt to keep traditional gender roles completely intact.
Naturally, if people notice a shift too far in a certain direction, they try to work against it, and most of the time this working against it is too far in the wrong direction as well.
I'm not positive you mean this, but you're implying men shouldn't pay for their intimacy? You think it should be free? Everyone pays, but in healthy relationship the "payment" is emotional intimacy, acts of service, words of affection etc. No one is walking up to a stranger and banging them without giving anything. Heck even in sex alone there's "transactions." During foreplay, I get you a little turned on, you get me a little turned on, I escalate, you escalate.
Why do you consider such relationships inherently exploitative? Healthy relationships include women caring about men, and vice versa, in various ways.
Besides, cultural norms and stereotypes commonly prevent men from seeking emotional support and being vulnerable around other men. While it can be said that some men have built this system to begin with, those are not necessarily the same men who struggle from it, and this conflict is hard to resolve. Also, romantic relationships commonly offer the highest level of openness about someone's feelings, and most couples are hetero, hence, women interacting with men.
I think the point being made is that often women are called upon to do emotional labour by men who are often only acquaintances who look at them as resources that should be on the cultural hook to dispense emotional intimacy. A lot of women are fed up with the gendered nature of that expectation because you have a lot of men taking of that resource but not seeing it as being something they should actively be doing too and that their lack of reciprocation and participation in that space is a problem.
The fact that cultural norms prevent men from seeking solace from other men is a problem not just because it's root lies in a lot of homophobia but because it creates both a category of gendered work for women and isolates men from their peers. Women are often pressured into that role which means if they don't want to perform that function for any reason they can meet resistance as that emotional intimacy can be treated or assumed as being mandatory.
Nor is it a good idea to lay all your problems at the feet of an intimate partner regardless of gender. They have a lot of investment in you generally and it is easier to talk with them but they are generally ill equipped to shoulder all of your problems because they lack emotional distance to set you right if you are going astray. They often have other investments in you as well which means they cannot always tell it to you straight because if you disagree or react poorly they might lose you or jeopardize life goals and plans.
Being approachable and available to provide support should be a genderless issue with neither automatic expectation of providing or expected coldness laid at the feet of anyone.
Sure, here I strongly agree, and I have no idea who could downvote such a statement.
It's just that this conversation took quite a weird tangent (as in "men exploit women, why don't you fuck off"), and I felt I should set it straight with my last comment.
Supporting your partner should absolutely be a genderless thing, and it's not right to just leave it out to women. Women need and deserve just as much gentle care and support as men; failing to recognize that will not lead to any good.
I was mostly speaking out against the original response on the screenshot, but the original post from that same screenshot isn't right or fair to anyone, either. Women should not be forced into the psychological support role.
Obviously the man is better than the bear - all he wants from the woman in the woods is for her to live a life of servitude to him as his psuedo mommy, wife, child producer and lover, because he has epic Viking battles he has to deal with…. of taking the trash to the curb, and waiting in traffic to get to work, because therapy is too expensive, or feminine?
That part got me too. All the battles? Your fucking tps reports are battles? The person at dunkin got your order wrong, is that another battle for the day?
This is that meme where the shriveled up dude says "Stop giving me your toughest battles" and Jesus just replies with something like "you literally just have to put the shopping cart back when you're done"
Nor do I, that's why I prefer sexless silence with my partners, just sit there and listen to the forks clink on the plate. I don't need to hear about her stupid day and it's not my job to make her cum goddammit!
(/s ffs. Do you people want romantic partners or roommates?)
As a guy, when I was younger, I jumped from relationship to relationship looking for that exact thing. You know what I got for my trouble? Nothing.
So, during my college years, I spent time by myself, learning how to get by and be okay with surviving without relying on anyone else. It was a farce of course because I was in school, not going to work, but it was close enough.
I got into the workforce and all of the things I forced myself to learn to be independent from literally everyone, was the pivot point where I was able to stabilize my life and start dating.
After a while I knew I didn't want someone who needed me. I wanted someone who 100% could do everything that they needed to do on their own, but wanted me around anyways.
I found what I was looking for.
I put a ring on it.
I don't worry when she goes out in her vehicle that she bought with her own money for her own purposes, that she's going to go find someone "better" because neither of us care about what's "better" than whatever else. I don't have to worry that she'll call and say she needs money because x, y, or z. She has her own money she made, that she can spend however she wants.
We split household costs, we enjoy eachother company and we value that we aren't relied on by the other for everything. It goes both ways.
As things have gone, the line between "mine" and "hers" has blurred to the point that, unless it's a high dollar value item, it's just ours. Because bothering to remember who paid for what is a waste of time and effort. Cars, yes, anything else? Probably not.
I generally agree with the caveat that having each other as a safety net of sorts has allowed my partner and I to be much more aggressive in our professional careers than we would have otherwise. While we don’t need each other we certainly enable each other because should the need arise we both know that we wouldn’t be left out to dry alone.
Agreed. Both me and my partner had need for medical leave from work, while that includes some income from the government, it's about half of the usual amount we would earn if we were working. So, when I was out, she stepped up, when she was out, I stepped up.
That's just what you do when things go sideways. 90% of the time or more, we're completely independent. The time we spend together is because we want to spend that time together.
As I take it, you'll never find someone who perfectly makes you whole, so you have to become whole on your own before you go and find someone to partner with for life.
Grab the book from the library and read it. Even as an adult, it's an important message. Don't even need to check it out. Takes five minutes cover to cover.
It's like, maybe you think you are the missing piece for someone else. You're a pie-shaped triangle. You can't roll on your own. So you're looking for a circle that is missing a slice. Some you'll be too big and won't fit, or too small and you'll fall out. Some will break. Some will break you. Some will neglect you. Others will put you on a pedestal.
But it you start trying to roll on your own as a triangle, and you can will yourself to just flop over one time, and then again, and then again, eventually your corners will wear down and you will become a full circle, and be able to roll all on your own.
We all need a caring person to nurture and restore our energy. This is a fundamental part of loving someone. Your parents do it when you're young but that does not mean you stop needing it.
Both of these posters are toxic in different ways.
If you dont want to both provide and receive caring, nurturing, and intimacy, as needed in a relationship, stay single.
That is the entire point. "to have and to hold" isn't a nearly universal marriage vow for nothing, even if it's a lie when said by many of either sex.
Sadly, as with virtually everything in society, relationships and marriage after a lovely but brief enlightened period are regressing back to a transactional business arrangement and not something based in mutual love, warts and all. Sucks to suck.
Eh…. Of all the people I know in relationships, none of them are transactional like you’re saying and they all want to be supported. So, unless my area of the world is different, this may just be a vocal minority that you’re running into online.
I'm married myself, but have noticed a fairly recent "reality" dating television proclivity rotting my significant other's brain with regards to this.
I'm concerned for her because she never used to be into such drivel and it is changing her opinions on the dynamics of marital life. Those shows are the gospel of making relationships about material gain and tit for tat.
I might be lucky in that the worst reality show my wife watches is “The Challenge” which left most of its real drama behind and is now more like 30 or 40 year olds doing physical challenges.
Sadly, as with virtually everything in society, relationships and marriage after a lovely but brief enlightened period are regressing back to a transactional business arrangement and not something based in mutual love, warts and all. Sucks to suck.
There definitely seems to be this feeling online that everyone has that everything is now terrible and everything was wonderful and roses in the past. But that simply is not true. It isn't worse now than it was 20 years ago, and it's a lot better now than it was 50 years ago. I really do not understand why people seem to go around believing everything is falling apart.
people think they need stuff, we are programmed to think we need x things, which people describe as "the grass is greener on the other side". if you think a girlfreind will help you, maybe it will, but i seen more people more people dissapointed in a realthship then worth it (not saying they are unhappy).
Varried by region culture and era but yeah at the bare minimum it was true for the upper classes and merchants. Farmers, Craftsmen, and Mariners seem to have generally married for social reason be it friendship or love.
There are men (and entire cultures) that think having psychical problems is a weakness, makes you a weak man and most fear being weak, what ironically makes them weak.
Women, on the other hand, are seen as the weak gender by default, so there it's less of a problem.
What about only reading the last part of the description instead of the whole thing to make a snap judgment? Is that toxic masculinity? Or is it just reframing it for your own ends, which is gender neutral?
So what was that because you just went off on someone who made a valid point.
Why don't we all have a bit of nuance here? Wanting to be in a loving relationship doesn't mean you need therapy. Obviously.
Some people don't need to be in therapy and some people do need to be in therapy and the people who do need to be in therapy should be in therapy regardless of their gender. Making overly broad statements like pretty much both of these two are doing is entirely unhelpful.
Firstly, a disclaimer...while I shouldn't really have to say this given the language I've used, I will anyway: I am by no means talking about ALL men.
The problem is that this is not an unfounded stereotype, made evident by the fact that the discrepancy between how household and childcare tasks are divided between partners (heterosexual, at least) is still a significant and prevalent issue.
Subconsciously or otherwise, this sadly rings true with a lot of men, who, at least in part, want—and sometimes expect—a woman who will adopt every role a mother would take. That is, taking care of most of the chores/household management/childcare duties, and without protest. Even when, say, both of them work full-time jobs.
Too many of these men either 1. do not know how to do simple household tasks (and are not unlikely to have adopted learned helplessness as a result), 2. deliberately delay or fuck up chores to get their partner to get frustrated and give up on asking for help altogether, or 3. simply don't notice how much more work their partner is doing than they are.
I acknowledge that a lot of boys aren't taught how to cook do chores as much as girls are, and those who haven't been were failed by the adults in their life in that regard. It's not a valid excuse once you're an adult, though.
I wonder if there's a market for male-centric therapy. As in "I've got a loada wood that needs chopping. Come chop wood with me and we'll talk about stuff". You know, give 'em something to do with their hands while they talk. Obviously you probably couldn't do that with someone who's known for being aggressive and has a criminal record, but someone who has trouble talking about their feelings and doesn't feel comfortable just sitting in a room or on a Teams call and would rather feel like they're accomplishing something.
This seems like a remarkably good idea but I still wouldn't gender it. Say it's "hands on therapy for physically oriented people" or something. I'm sure there are plenty of non-male humans who would benefit.
Hell, it might even work for my girlfriend who will go to insane lengths to avoid sitting down and having a conversation about anything personal. If it works, I owe you an upvote or something.
It definitely works. Get into some hard work with another person - sweat, scream, and get bloody together. They'll start talking deep shit soon enough (and so will you).
I'm a non-human who would absolutely love to be building shit while talking during therapy instead of using a fidget toy while avoiding eye contact because looking at someone looking at me and being vulnerable at the same time is NOT IT for me (yet).
Occupational therapy is a thing, but it is a very different thing. Occupational therapy is part of rehab that helps patients regain or retain activities of daily living like dressing, bathing, and feeding themselves, etc.
I just go out drinking with my buds and we vent about shit. There's rarely any solutions but that's because the shit we're venting about is the world falling apart, not anything we can fix. But it does help a little to get it out of our system.
I don't want to imagine what the insurance would be on a service like this. Customers chopping their own wood. That's an OSHA violation waiting to happen.
“All the battles he fought that day” sir your target audience mostly works in air conditioned offices with a coffee machine five feet from their desks, calm down.
Oh absolutely, it’s not that I have a problem with. It’s more the need that these losers have to lionise everything they do to the point of parody. Everything is framed in these grand terms of war and civilisation. They can’t just be having a rough day at work, they’re warriors fighting battles. They can’t just go to the gym to keep fit and improve themselves, they’re alpha males holding up the ideals of Western civilisation. They can’t just settle down and raise a family, they’re continuing the proud legacy of their forefathers and upholding family values. You get the picture.
It’s such a naked attempt to avoid anything that might be in the slightest bit emasculating and it’s honestly pathetic. They’re terrified of being perceived as anything other than a tough macho man that can only communicate through violence and threats. They think it makes then look like strong men when it actually does the opposite. Strong-willed people don’t talk like this.
Are you saying this because you are aware of that guy worldview (maybe you looked into him) or did you manage to infer all this from a single tweet?
Like, I agree about the substance if we are talking about the manosphere. But it seems a bit quick to assume this guy is part of "them" just from this, no?
I don't think therapy is a particularly good substitute for having loved ones you can be intimate with. Nor is relationships necessarily tools for learning to deal with every dysfunction that one could have.
It's the exact inverse; therapy is a tool for learning how to deal with your deficiencies, while relationships are there for having loved ones you can be intimate with
Yeah this is something I’ve been trying to walk the talk about.
I joined an adults sports league and have a few friends I call almost daily on rotation (whether they want it or not lol) and I’ve started feeling a lot more fulfilled and less anxious.
Most of those friends expect my calls now, and I get questioned if I can’t make it to a practice or game. It feels good to have your presence desired, whether it’s in a romantic or platonic relationship. There’s an epidemic of men who think that that void can only be filled with a lover.
tbh in the world we live in i think we all need a bit of therapy. But relying on your partner exclusively for that is a bad idea in the long run. They can offer their support but at the end of the day they can't fix you and they definitely don't have the skills to guide you.
That's true, but the response is just as bad. Couples are supposed to support each other. Hell, friends are supposed to support each other. This is a basic part of humanity.
Yeah this interaction is really weird. I don't agree with the second guys statement at all. Wanting to be in a relationship is a perfectly normal thing to want and isn't mummy issues.
Where does the woman go when she needs to be nurtured and have her batteries restored? Men aren't the only ones fighting battles out there. In a healthy relationship, you're supporting each other.
Also, not everybody is looking for a woman who is "soft" or "feminine". Maybe I want somebody who's a rough-and-tumble badass. I have a feeling that kind of a person would be a better support for my personality.
It's also worth noting...you shouldn't be using your partner as your therapist. If you're constantly trauma-dumping on somebody, it isn't fair to them, and it isn't fair to you, because they aren't trained in how to help you like a therapist is. Sure, cry on their shoulder when life is hard and all that, but if you're having mental health problems, go see somebody who's board-certified.
Tbh nothing was said about "men" not reciprocating that same function.
We are all discussing based on assumptions, but I think it's totally fair to have someone with whom you can discuss the daily hardships of life, vent and share the burdens, while feeling loved. Obviously, you also have to be that person for your partner.
I also wouldn't categorize the above as "trauma dumping", just a regular relationship where you share the bad in addition of the good.
No idea what OP meant exactly (not that I care), but a lot of the answers here assume the worst and go on a tangent IMHO.
OP started with "men do not need a therapist", and then implied that their wife or girlfriend should be their therapist instead. This is, in fact, an unhealthy dynamic, and that is why people called it out as such.
The way I read it, it implied that they should have a place to open up and have intimacy. I read it more like "the lack of that is what creates the necessity to go to therapy".
Sure, having an caring and empathetic partner might help me cope with my intrusive thoughts, anxiety, and ADHD, but I still need a therapist. My therapist understands how my brain works and gives me strategies for dealing with maladaptive behaviors. My partner likely wouldn't have that kind of education, and even if she did, that's not her job.
Additionally, there's already a lot of stigma around mental illness, especially for men, and that causes them to not seek professional help, because they see that as admitting to a character flaw. Messages like this aren't helping.
The post didn't mention it has to be one-sided. A helpful and healthy answer for those concerned of reciprocity could be along the lines of "it's cool, but I'd like to add women need support no less than men. Also, preferences may differ, so overgeneralizing on what men want isn't right".
I think both parties are wrong here. Mothers do not need to be feminine or soft either. What the fuck does that even mean. FeMiNiNe sOFt women!!! It's just coded language for submissive, self-sacrificing domestic slave.
I should be more precise for you "gotcha!" pedants: I will not change a single thing about myself or feel a single ounce of shame or influence based on the above statement. I only care in that I vociferously oppose its misogynistic premise and believe it is worth it to call out when I see it. Happy? God I hate people like you.
Or, y know, both? Most people need intimacy, but also if you have a problem, resolving it in therapy is a responsible and good option and we should stop the mental health stigma.
it's insane how jreg (youtuber) gave me the most solid understanding of relationships that was so obvious that I couldn't believe we didn't understand already, it's a mixture of them all, it's not a partner or a good friend group or parents, it's to be able to have them all, a therapist can be a guiding figure a mentor and another node to release stress learn from mistakes and overall a decent person to be in contact with even if your thoughts were in control and you were in a good state of mind.
What a pleasant surprise among the defensive takes. Thank you for sharing it.
The most problematic situation seems to be when not having access to all of them and trying to push your partner into fulfilling all of these roles. To be your partner, parent and a friend(sometimes a therapist even). Sure it's nice of them if they can, but it shouldn't be their daily responsibility.
Someone who would lay down in bed with me and hold me while I cry would be a tremendous help to my mental health, but a therapist would be real nice, too. Too bad it's a five-month wait to get in to see one around here.
Honestly therapy isn’t for everyone. There’s lots of shitty therapists out there that do more damage than good, and far more often than not it’s expensive. I agree with the sentiment here but people on the internet really need to stop suggesting it to everyone all the time.
Everyone should see a therapist. Not every day or even every year but it's one of the best preventative measures you can have. People bring it up because a lot of folks who struggle with basic emotional health problems don't see one or feel a stigma around it.
If your therapist sucks or just isnt a good fit for you, you find a new one. Like you would a mechanic, or doctor, or barista.
Sometimes I do. We have great healthcare. Can send a couple pics of a scrape like that and they note it incase anything happens which pretty much is never. And we can count the topical we buy or have delivered against the deductible.
It helps get the system down pat and shows our kid how to use it incase they have bigger questions for their doctor later or need to take care of a more serious problem without us.
The first therapist I saw told me "Some people just don't enjoy life, maybe you're one of those people" which was a strange thing to hear from a "mental health professional" and set off alarm bells.
The ironic thing is a lot of the “everybody needs therapy” crowd have never been to therapy. One therapist told my friend his addiction to prescribed drugs was a moral failing on his part. This lead him to attempt suicide by cop. This would not have happened if he had not gone to a therapist.
Especially when your partner is a vengeful mother figure that physically, emotionally, and spiritually destroys you over several years until you finally leave it all behind and recognize how empty your life has been and how much self blame was gaslit and manipulated out of you.
I would say that, conditional to the man having a partner, intimacy is a hell of a lot more accessible than therapy. Provided that intimacy is not rationed or made conditional, this could provide more lasting and more timely healing than therapy as well.
With that said, we really need to normalize men seeking therapy. There are far too many men where the conditions above are not met, and so could and would benefit more from therapy than intimacy.
I get that the original was a bit sensationalist but I don’t see a problem with the overall message. Yes it was needlessly gendered but again that doesn’t change the message.
People need people that care about them and will listen. That’s it.
offer free therapy from people passionate about helping others, instead of charging them an arm and a leg for an hour of one persons narrow minded view of the world. i think more people would get therapy if that were the case.
until then, its okay to get it if you can afford it, or rely on friends, and family when you need to.
however on a personal note, nothing in my life has removed the burden of existence and replaced it with univeral connection, joy, and love for others and all living things like magic mushrooms have.
and on another personal note, therapy cannot change the external world, just how you choose to react to it. and especially these days, introspection and pills cannot save you from fascism, climate change, WW3, and poverty. among other things. it may just change your perspective on it.
throwing therapy into someones face as the only answer is a small minded view of reality. its not the answer for everyone. but it does have value in certain specific situations, for certain, specific people.
Depending on the point of view, each one of us is a certain specific person, in a specific situation.
Edit: i hear you on the magic mushrooms. Actually a silly name, for such peace of mind bringing mushrooms. It is also not just a "high" feeling. The things you think about, under the influence, stay with you after the experience.
And, for me at least, i came out of every experience, with lasting sane decisions. It made me a calmer person, but also much more active physically, by embracing exercises.
Is difficult to explain and since it's a mushroom, not a human produced drug with the intention to get you high, who knows what real benefits it brings with it?
I read somewhere, that every mushroom experience actually rewires some of your neurons.
To all those saying, "but why shouldn't men want to be cared for?"
This meme plays into a narrative the makes women subservient.
It suggests that only men "battle", and that being a man and "battling" entities them to care by women.
No where in this is acknowledgement that women have burdens too, and that all people benefit from care.
No where in this is any hint of reciprocity. If anything, it implies that the "joy" of taking care of "her man" should be enough.
No. Walk the fuck on. Having a penis doesn't entitle you to one-sided care.
The other thing implied by this - that women should 'naturally' be able to fix 'her man'. But if a woman in broken? Oof - 'she has Daddy issues' and better fix herself, right?
And what if a woman tries to fix 'her man' and fails? Oh look - isnt that convenient - society just took all his faults and made them her failures. Wow! Who wouldn't want to sign up for that??
And just look at that success rate. You can count up the number of women killed by intimate partners and see how great this plan is.
Society really needs to get past this childish narrative that tells men they should expect to find a manic pixie dream girl who lives only to make him happy. Men make fun of girls for believing in Prince Charming, but this is truly the more destructive fairy tale.
Men can't have a desire for comfort and intimacy that isn't criticized and characterised as maternal? Same shit as calling male friendships gay. This is the left wing bully. Better with emotions yet use that as a weapon of coercion, no different than a fist. Both sides are filled with assholes.
That's because we don't really understand how brains work. Psychology is just barely coming out of the dark ages. You're going to run into a lot of psychologists who'll want to do the mental equivalent of balancing your humors or sticking leeches on you.
It’s a shame that in some cultures simple friendships men, women, mixed are not accompanied by physical touch too, like a hug. And also being able to talk openly about the struggles, like us women do with our friends. You get a lot from a friend’s hug or them listening to you.
That's not on testosterone. At most it plays a part in it, but this behavior is the result of a patriarchal society. (Solely) blaming testosterone defends shitheels like this one, and diminishes people with testosterone-dominated bodies that are different
I am struggling to deal with j suicidal thoughts about how awful i must be because I am a man. Like I sometimes think there needs to be a brutal cleansing.
You don't owe anyone anything. You did not choose to be born, you were thrust into existence and it is unfair to you to feel like you ought to "get out of everyone's way" via suicide. The world put you here, not you. Even if you earnestly think you are awful because you are a man.
Further you almost certainly aren't awful, because you feel empathy for the rest of the world because you want to avoid being a burden to them. Awful people don't give a shit if they hurt other people or the world.
A side note, if you really think because you are a man specifically that you are awful: You might unironically just want to transition into a woman.
Thank you. But I never really felt like a woman either to be honest. And frankly I don't think it will help, it will just make me a target and frankly there are a lot of liberal I think are only performative in the stance on trans rights.
There are plenty of examples of wonderful men, go find one and make friends with him. Unless you mistreated women constantly, why would you think, by default, that your are awful?
It's just easier. Like, the left can recruit a lot of these young men if they tried and came up up with strategies beside preaching again and again and telling them their problems aren't real? But they are written off before the can even speak and the dialog regarding tjis issues is so limited thats hard to talk about And if you advocate for them suddenly you are an incel, so what's the point of even trying? For fucks sake one of the most up voted comments on here is someone with the name misandry so how can it be argued that you have no real place in among the left? So I just keep my head down and agre with what is said about us because it's easier then to keep banging my head against the wall.
And my interests often limit my ability to find good people to be friends with. Though I will admit igot some good friends among them who don't suck.
I don’t understand how you make this a political thing. Do you by chance live in the US? There is a lot of polarisation there.
As a woman myself, I think some people understand feminism differently than others. I don’t agree with women that just spit hate on men simply because they are men. Feminism is about empowering women to be whatever they like and be equal to men in society, relationships, family, work. I had my fair share of discrimination in my life based on my gender, and I constantly fight against it, but that does not make me just hate men by default. I know a lot of men that are on the same page with me about how we should be as a society. And a society where we are all getting along is so much better than a polarised one.
I am lucky to have found a husband that is secure with his masculinity(whatever that means to him), that he does not feel threatened about me having, for example, hobbies like woodworking, or having some muscles on my body. That does not mean I don’t find him masculine, because I do.
We are all shades of masculinity and femininity, and blocking one of these sides from us is just stupid. We are what we are and we can get along just fine with each other with a bit of effort. We don’t have to hate on the ones that are not like us.
And my interests often limit my ability to find good people to be friends with. Though I will admit igot some good friends among them who don't suck.
To this I say, try new hobbies and activities. Volunteer somewhere, that will make you find nice people. You need to find friends that are awesome for you, not just that don’t suck. Some great friendships can be very healing for the soul.
Yeah, I am American so everything is political and there is no middle ground. Either you are a fascist or not and that is it.
As for my hobby I am kind of underselling it. It's hard to get into, but it's the only thing I genuinely love after years of picking up and droppingl a lot of other interests over the years. plus i am at a point where i do make some money, not something i can live on by any means but ist something i am proud of. And like I said I did meet some genuinely good friends I probably would never have met otherwise.
I really don't want to mention it because the community around it jn my area is small and while doubt anyone I know uses lemmy it wouldn't be hard to figure out who in am if they looked into it and I have said some dark shit here that would fuck it all up for me. I know it's unrealistic, but I like what I do well enough to not want to that risk.
Almost all people have some need (depending on the definition) for physical intimacy. Not just men.
That said, people saying men need a therapist aren't saying a therapist would help men and a therapist would authentically be in their best self interest (unless you are extremely patronizing). They're saying a therapist would fix them, because men need fixing. Its not out of some genuine desire to make men happier.
What we really need to say is men need re-education. Because it is primarily men that are fucking up the world.
Maybe liberals need to take a pro suicide stance on men? Starting in school ideally to make it easy. Because of we are inherently bad what other choice is there when you are not welcome in any liberal group?
This is kind of sarcasm. But I really am out of ideas. When rhe left won't see you as any different then musknor tate regardless of their views then there is no hope.
I'm not a liberal. I'm also a man myself. I know you were just being a bit of an antagonistic shitposter, but I would not advocate for suicide obviously. But I've already proposed a fairly radical solution of just having fewer male babies in the first place, though as a solution to a different problem: men are romantically lonely, women are not romantically lonely.
I wouldn't recommend therapy unless you suffer from a debilitating mental disorder that is responsible for you not being able to participate in life in a meaningful way. Just my opinion.
I think everyone would benefit from a tool box / wellness discovery session that individual research or time spent with a therapist can offer. Essentially build out a mental health “first aid kit” for yourself in times of emergency. Many don’t - and so their first serious crisis (especially with men) ends violently.
Even if there’s 0 wrong in your life - knowing what things make you well and how to leverage them when you eventually lose someone you care about or have to cope with severe and debilitating grief is important.
Saying you don’t need to buy a med kit unless you have a severed artery sort of means you will be behind the coping and recovery process. This can be accomplished in 1 or 2 sessions with support or individual research.
Just my counter point as someone who did psych screening services - coached people with 0 psych / mental health issues prior out of self harm scenarios and got them in my car or an ambo to go to the hospital. But also never went to or believed in therapy for myself (and had my first session a decade after that job at the age of 35). I should have gone earlier. But I was fine and successful without it. Married / promoted / succeeding in life - So didn’t.
Whoa, hold the fuck on. Are you seriously suggesting that expensive, paid mental health care be used to treat serious mental health problems, rather than as a way of dismissing half the planets emotions?
That is true, but a "debilitating mental disorder" means completely different things to every person. So, you should go to therapy if you feel you need it, which means that trying to decide for someone makes no sense at all.
I completely agree with you. I dunno who this alexnroberto guy is but based on a 2 second search, he comes off as one of those manosphere dudes so I guess we can assume that his comment isn't based on mutual support, but only the woman supporting the man. I disagree with that world view, but if the message stood alone, I don't see the issue in partners leaning on one another instead of going to therapy for every little thing that's wrong in their lives.
Be like going to the dentist to have him brush and floss your teeth for you.
There is also this one uncomfortable truth that the therapy crowd doesn't really want to acknowledge and that is that therapy is a luxury for the rich. Telling someone to go to therapy is actually pretty rude because not everyone can afford to throw thousands at therapy no matter how much or how little they need it.
I speak from experience. Therapy, if you are poor, can do more harm than good.
Not disagreeing, just see this association with expensive therapy and the USA a lot. Mental health care, as well as dental, is out of pocket or has a large co pay in a lot of countries that otherwise have a good healthcare system.
I don't live in the US either. I actually live in Denmark and while we have free healthcare, it doesn't cover everything. I think they changed it in recent years so that youths would be able to get free therapy, but when I was young, there wasn't any of that. You could get 10 sessions with a therapist and pay less thanks to insurance, but after those ten sessions it was full price if you wanted to keep the same therapist and I couldn't afford that at the time. I ended up having to change therapists every ten sessions and by the end I was worse off mentally than before I started. Hence why i say that therapy is a luxury for the rich. It still is today if you are over a certain age. I could probably afford therapy if I really needed it, but it would still be expensive and with how things are going in the world, I would probably not spend money on a therapist anytime soon unless it was a life or death situation.
I'm glad therapy is free in your country though. Where do you live?
I'm sick of the division. Feminism and incel are trash created only to divide and distract lower classes problems meanwhile billionaires making more and more.
Yes it is. Your fight is sectorized and the only goal is to create a men apartheid. I have a lot of examples to give. Metro in some countries have women only wagons, with the excuse that some idiots were annoying women. OK so for a few idiot morons all men have to pay. And yes it affects, sometimes the only empty wagon is the exclusive. Apartheid.
Yeah totally my imagination when feminists graffiti houses and statues with messages like "kill your father". I am a crazy person who is watching visions. FEMINAZIS.
Everyone can benefit from a therapist and everyone can benefit from a loving, caring partner.
Who knew?
It definitely does not need to be one or the other. Oftentimes therapy could help in the relationship department considerably. Deep hurt is hard to get through alone, yet I hope more and more people understand there is help out there.
If relationships are a two way street, and one person is hurting enough to affect their role within it all there should be no shame in reaching out in that way. It could help a lot. It's a shame there's still so much stigma around therapy.
I dont think that stigma is going to get any better any time soon (at least in the US). The past year has given me significantly less trust that anything medical remains private; i have no trust that things said in confidence will not be weaponized against me by the current government. There have already been cases of states demanding medical records for pregnancy, abortion, and transgender records, and texas actually got their hands on some records IIRC.
My therapist says she takes a bare minimum of notes because she understands the fear people have of private info getting leaked. Maybe someone worried about that could ask about their notes process during the therapist-finding stage.
I was implying that both are beneficials.
Oh yeah me too. I agree with everything you said, was just adding on my bit :)
I can't comprehend what I read today. Sorry
No no, could've been how I worded it haha. It's all gravy.
Wait wait wait... You're telling me people need love? Pfft I don't believe it.
I can guarantee there are at least a few people out there who don't actually need love in adulthood to live happy and fulfilling lives.
How do you figure that?
Because there are always exceptions.
Always.
There is a well-known study about this: All You Need Is Love (Martin et al., 1967)
I don't think the OP in the screenshot is describing a loving partnership though - the emotional support described is very much one sided.
There is no reason to assume that
I choose a loving, varying therapist.
Not when they see relationships as transactional
I’m a man and I just need a big hairy and muscular chest to lay my head on the end of a very tough day.
I have no idea what this guy Alex is on about.
He said a hairy and muscular chest! That chest is smooth!
So a pitbull?
He wants to wake up with his face still on
Life’s hard when your husband has a smooth chest 😔
So, uh, if this is what men need at the end of the day, what does this guy think women need at the end of their day? Or is it only men "fighting battles" in their day-to-day lives? Because this surely implies that either men are needlessly making things harder for themselves if women somehow manage to avoid daily battles, or that women don't need comfort after their daily battles... and wouldn't that make men, who do need that help, the weaker sex?
See, youre actually missing one key component here. They dont think of women as people. Just baby machines made to please men.
It's true. As soon as I'm out of sight of my husband I dock like a Roomba and wait until he returns so I can wipe away his tears and give him a foot rub.
/s
Roomba
All women have to do is iron his shirt and make sure there's food on the table when he gets in. He's out in the real world doing manly things to bring home the bacon.
Every woman I've ever dated has expected me to do what they call "being there for them" in what I can only assume to be situations similar to whatever he's hyperbolically referring to as "battles," and I was happy to, and they did the same for me which I appreciated. But maybe since it's just taken for granted that men do that for women (people itt seem not to realize being supportive is a bare minimum expectation for any partner), and according to the post it is mommy issues when a man wants it in return, it sounds to me like women are the weaker one.
Did I do the gender war right? Do we really have to "men bad women bad" wanting supportive partners ffs? This is why I don't talk to people anymore, cats are better.
A whole lot of people in this thread don't understand that a therapist does.
I know right! It’s all “but men bruh” but who takes care of women?
I know themselves do, because no one will. But somehow that’s accepted, and men taking care of themselves and stop exploiting women isn’t?
Women: "I want a guy in touch with his feelings."
Men: "I want a woman I can share my feelings with."
Internet people: "Women aren't your mommy, go see a therapist with your dumb feelings."
Me, too moron to interact with human: "Hello kitty, wanna watch King Of the Hill again? Me too, I'll get the blanket."
The guy in the screenshot is not in touch with his feelings.
Yeah, in touch with your feelings != dumping your feelings out of a firehose at a partner who's expected to just soak them all up once a week, then pretending they don't exist the rest of the time.
I also suspect that by intimacy in this case the first guy means bangmaid
It's a gradient, but this particular case is distasteful because the man is expecting his partner to do literally free therapy, rather than work with a professional. It's more akin to treating your partner as an emotional dumping ground than opening up.
If this is happening in the context of a more equitable relationship, where they both take turns supporting each other, then it's totally different, though.
It doesn't even sound like he wants free therapy. He wants a woman to kiss him on the head and tell him what a good boy he is and how hard he worked, while ignoring any problems he might have. I don't see a therapist's role as "nurturing and restoring" unless you're dating them.
Maybe he literally has no problems besides no gf?
Sorry, not sorry. If he begins this with "Men do not need a therapist." (And many men do) And then declare that the women men need be soft and caring while verbally presenting the man as a hero who fights his daily battles... that's just toxic bullshit as fuck.
I'm okay with somebody accepting and wanting traditional gender roles, everyone's got their own taste in potential partners and need to find the person right for them.
But declaring what "men" need and then demanding not only traditional but toxically overblown gender roles for everyone is just... BAH! And the disapproval for therapy, or telling "men" that they don't need therapy, only a mommy, when many of us do indeed need therapy... that's just indicative of the most bullshit incel-alpha-baby-needs-a-mommy mindset.
If you're a guy and in touch with your feelings (like me, for example), yes, lean on your partner if you need to and they are okay with it. If you are an emotional person, be emotional. But don't demand or expect to just be able to vomit your shit on your partner and they being okay with it and then cleaning the corner of your mouth with a tissue... Your partner is not free therapy, do not treat them like somebody providing a service.
Also I guess gay men don't exist. But would not be surprised someone with such a bad take also has bad ideas about queerness
You are correct. People with these attitudes would prefer gay men to not exist.
I think a modern dysfunction of intergender relationship is an increase in transactional intimacy. Whether it's dating, sex, or emotional, I think a lot of men are paying for their intimacy.
There is a disconnect between people noticing that love is not unconditional, and thinking love is completely transactional.
Of course if love is never useful for one of the participating parties involved, then this/their love will fade. But people interpret this fact in the way that love should always be exactly as useful for all parties involved all the time.
But in reality, it should be fine if sometimes maybe one side is more selfish, less giving, sometimes the other side. Sometimes one side gives more emotional support, but the other side is more physically caring. And so on. Love doesn't need to be perfectly equal, it just needs to make all parties involved better than if they were without the love.
But when you're very competitive and selfish, and it's hard to quantify each person's usefulness to each other, it's easy to always think that what you give is more than what someone else gives. Constantly having arguments about how you think things should be.
It can easily be a case of personal perception of a relationship, at least my generation was constantly told their only value in life is utilitarian, when that's your mind set you're going to assume that's the only value you have in relationships as well. Again, therapy would help a lot so men can see that their partners do value them outside of their assigned value culture.
I agree with what you and @Azzu @[email protected] are saying, in the vein that traditional gender roles have done more harm than good.
I think the culture is shifting but there's also a weird backlash to the change, like the toxic Masculinity of Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson, or the Trad Wife movement, or the rise of Only Fans and other pay-to-play parasitic economies.
I think a certain subgroup of men are willing to give money in exchange for intimacy as a way to exercise power in that dynamic, as if it lessens their vulnerability.
Relationships should of course be mutually beneficial, and therefore are inherently transactional. But I also find it ironic that whether men paying for online dating apps to meet women, paying for drinks, paying for sex, or paying for therapy, it's all hitting their wallets.
You gotta remember that the traditional gender roles come from somewhere. There are many that detest them so much that they can't even imagine that there must be something in the human psyche that came up with them.
There are plenty of people that know about the traditional gender roles doing more harm than good, yet still choosing to mostly follow them, in a non-toxic way, because they are what actually feels best for them.
I think the radical feminist push of trying to achieve perfect outcome equality in all areas is as misguided as the rigid, inflexible attempt to keep traditional gender roles completely intact.
Naturally, if people notice a shift too far in a certain direction, they try to work against it, and most of the time this working against it is too far in the wrong direction as well.
I'm not positive you mean this, but you're implying men shouldn't pay for their intimacy? You think it should be free? Everyone pays, but in healthy relationship the "payment" is emotional intimacy, acts of service, words of affection etc. No one is walking up to a stranger and banging them without giving anything. Heck even in sex alone there's "transactions." During foreplay, I get you a little turned on, you get me a little turned on, I escalate, you escalate.
I mean literal payment, with money.
Uhm, having someone care for you is not a "pathological mother figure".
People need this. Men need this. Asking for care is the most normal thing a person can do.
And then if something is actually wrong, there is a therapist.
Why don’t they go ask for care from other men and stop exploiting women for it?
Why do you consider such relationships inherently exploitative? Healthy relationships include women caring about men, and vice versa, in various ways.
Besides, cultural norms and stereotypes commonly prevent men from seeking emotional support and being vulnerable around other men. While it can be said that some men have built this system to begin with, those are not necessarily the same men who struggle from it, and this conflict is hard to resolve. Also, romantic relationships commonly offer the highest level of openness about someone's feelings, and most couples are hetero, hence, women interacting with men.
I think the point being made is that often women are called upon to do emotional labour by men who are often only acquaintances who look at them as resources that should be on the cultural hook to dispense emotional intimacy. A lot of women are fed up with the gendered nature of that expectation because you have a lot of men taking of that resource but not seeing it as being something they should actively be doing too and that their lack of reciprocation and participation in that space is a problem.
The fact that cultural norms prevent men from seeking solace from other men is a problem not just because it's root lies in a lot of homophobia but because it creates both a category of gendered work for women and isolates men from their peers. Women are often pressured into that role which means if they don't want to perform that function for any reason they can meet resistance as that emotional intimacy can be treated or assumed as being mandatory.
Nor is it a good idea to lay all your problems at the feet of an intimate partner regardless of gender. They have a lot of investment in you generally and it is easier to talk with them but they are generally ill equipped to shoulder all of your problems because they lack emotional distance to set you right if you are going astray. They often have other investments in you as well which means they cannot always tell it to you straight because if you disagree or react poorly they might lose you or jeopardize life goals and plans.
Being approachable and available to provide support should be a genderless issue with neither automatic expectation of providing or expected coldness laid at the feet of anyone.
Sure, here I strongly agree, and I have no idea who could downvote such a statement.
It's just that this conversation took quite a weird tangent (as in "men exploit women, why don't you fuck off"), and I felt I should set it straight with my last comment.
Supporting your partner should absolutely be a genderless thing, and it's not right to just leave it out to women. Women need and deserve just as much gentle care and support as men; failing to recognize that will not lead to any good.
I was mostly speaking out against the original response on the screenshot, but the original post from that same screenshot isn't right or fair to anyone, either. Women should not be forced into the psychological support role.
"all the battles he fought that day"
jesus, stop romanticizing having to deal with life dude. guess what, everyone does.
what are the odds that this guy lost his shit at the man vs bear question.
Obviously the man is better than the bear - all he wants from the woman in the woods is for her to live a life of servitude to him as his psuedo mommy, wife, child producer and lover, because he has epic Viking battles he has to deal with…. of taking the trash to the curb, and waiting in traffic to get to work, because therapy is too expensive, or feminine?
Lmao
That part got me too. All the battles? Your fucking tps reports are battles? The person at dunkin got your order wrong, is that another battle for the day?
This is that meme where the shriveled up dude says "Stop giving me your toughest battles" and Jesus just replies with something like "you literally just have to put the shopping cart back when you're done"
Women aren't paid enough to be both your bangmaid and your therapist.
How about if you're their bangmaid and therapist right back? Sounds like a good deal to me
Women only want one thing and it's fucking disgusting.
Its a peg or be pegged world.
Por que no los dos?
But why XOR not OR?
Nor do I, that's why I prefer sexless silence with my partners, just sit there and listen to the forks clink on the plate. I don't need to hear about her stupid day and it's not my job to make her cum goddammit!
(/s ffs. Do you people want romantic partners or roommates?)
Between Two Ferns: Dating Edition
As a guy, when I was younger, I jumped from relationship to relationship looking for that exact thing. You know what I got for my trouble? Nothing.
So, during my college years, I spent time by myself, learning how to get by and be okay with surviving without relying on anyone else. It was a farce of course because I was in school, not going to work, but it was close enough.
I got into the workforce and all of the things I forced myself to learn to be independent from literally everyone, was the pivot point where I was able to stabilize my life and start dating.
After a while I knew I didn't want someone who needed me. I wanted someone who 100% could do everything that they needed to do on their own, but wanted me around anyways.
I found what I was looking for. I put a ring on it.
I don't worry when she goes out in her vehicle that she bought with her own money for her own purposes, that she's going to go find someone "better" because neither of us care about what's "better" than whatever else. I don't have to worry that she'll call and say she needs money because x, y, or z. She has her own money she made, that she can spend however she wants.
We split household costs, we enjoy eachother company and we value that we aren't relied on by the other for everything. It goes both ways.
As things have gone, the line between "mine" and "hers" has blurred to the point that, unless it's a high dollar value item, it's just ours. Because bothering to remember who paid for what is a waste of time and effort. Cars, yes, anything else? Probably not.
I generally agree with the caveat that having each other as a safety net of sorts has allowed my partner and I to be much more aggressive in our professional careers than we would have otherwise. While we don’t need each other we certainly enable each other because should the need arise we both know that we wouldn’t be left out to dry alone.
Agreed. Both me and my partner had need for medical leave from work, while that includes some income from the government, it's about half of the usual amount we would earn if we were working. So, when I was out, she stepped up, when she was out, I stepped up.
That's just what you do when things go sideways. 90% of the time or more, we're completely independent. The time we spend together is because we want to spend that time together.
Reminds me of the book, The Missing Piece by Shel Silverstein.
No piece is going to fill you just right. Have to learn to roll on your own before you can roll with someone else.
Interesting concept from what you've described.
As I take it, you'll never find someone who perfectly makes you whole, so you have to become whole on your own before you go and find someone to partner with for life.
Grab the book from the library and read it. Even as an adult, it's an important message. Don't even need to check it out. Takes five minutes cover to cover.
It's like, maybe you think you are the missing piece for someone else. You're a pie-shaped triangle. You can't roll on your own. So you're looking for a circle that is missing a slice. Some you'll be too big and won't fit, or too small and you'll fall out. Some will break. Some will break you. Some will neglect you. Others will put you on a pedestal.
But it you start trying to roll on your own as a triangle, and you can will yourself to just flop over one time, and then again, and then again, eventually your corners will wear down and you will become a full circle, and be able to roll all on your own.
We read this to our kid for years. Hopefully the message stuck
Because the use of one takes away an unhealthy need for the other.
All the battles you fought that day? Unless you are on the front line in Ukraine you should be able to find a more chill lifestyle.
Twitter is where discourse goes to die
We all need a caring person to nurture and restore our energy. This is a fundamental part of loving someone. Your parents do it when you're young but that does not mean you stop needing it.
Both of these posters are toxic in different ways.
If you dont want to both provide and receive caring, nurturing, and intimacy, as needed in a relationship, stay single.
That is the entire point. "to have and to hold" isn't a nearly universal marriage vow for nothing, even if it's a lie when said by many of either sex.
Sadly, as with virtually everything in society, relationships and marriage after a lovely but brief enlightened period are regressing back to a transactional business arrangement and not something based in mutual love, warts and all. Sucks to suck.
Eh…. Of all the people I know in relationships, none of them are transactional like you’re saying and they all want to be supported. So, unless my area of the world is different, this may just be a vocal minority that you’re running into online.
I'm married myself, but have noticed a fairly recent "reality" dating television proclivity rotting my significant other's brain with regards to this.
I'm concerned for her because she never used to be into such drivel and it is changing her opinions on the dynamics of marital life. Those shows are the gospel of making relationships about material gain and tit for tat.
I might be lucky in that the worst reality show my wife watches is “The Challenge” which left most of its real drama behind and is now more like 30 or 40 year olds doing physical challenges.
If anything that kind of transactional relationship is less likely now then in the past since divorce is now more socially acceptable.
There definitely seems to be this feeling online that everyone has that everything is now terrible and everything was wonderful and roses in the past. But that simply is not true. It isn't worse now than it was 20 years ago, and it's a lot better now than it was 50 years ago. I really do not understand why people seem to go around believing everything is falling apart.
people think they need stuff, we are programmed to think we need x things, which people describe as "the grass is greener on the other side". if you think a girlfreind will help you, maybe it will, but i seen more people more people dissapointed in a realthship then worth it (not saying they are unhappy).
Hasn’t marriage been a business affair for much of history?
Varried by region culture and era but yeah at the bare minimum it was true for the upper classes and merchants. Farmers, Craftsmen, and Mariners seem to have generally married for social reason be it friendship or love.
I literally said it's regressing back to that after an enlightened period.
Why is he genderizing therapy? Do men not have brains?
I'm a man. I don't need therapy because I don't want to. That's different. I need therapy, I just don't want to.
There are men (and entire cultures) that think having psychical problems is a weakness, makes you a weak man and most fear being weak, what ironically makes them weak.
Women, on the other hand, are seen as the weak gender by default, so there it's less of a problem.
Exactly. It's funny like calling my hotrod engine weak for needing oil changes.
Freud would have a field day with this dude.
Freud: *points* "See? SEE!?" *Slaps lap* "THAT IS WHAT I MEAN!"
ZAT ISCH VAT IM TALKING ABOUT
Indeed, from "nurture energy" to "mother figure" is a leap that warrants analysis. "Muse" would be a much closer semantic association.
Going from "men need intimacy" to "manchild wants a mommy" is toxic masculinity on the second guy's part.
The first poster isn't describing two way intimacy though. They are describing a mommy.
They don't say anything about it being one-sided though. Could be worded better, but let's not assume the worst.
What about only reading the last part of the description instead of the whole thing to make a snap judgment? Is that toxic masculinity? Or is it just reframing it for your own ends, which is gender neutral?
So what was that because you just went off on someone who made a valid point.
Why don't we all have a bit of nuance here? Wanting to be in a loving relationship doesn't mean you need therapy. Obviously.
Some people don't need to be in therapy and some people do need to be in therapy and the people who do need to be in therapy should be in therapy regardless of their gender. Making overly broad statements like pretty much both of these two are doing is entirely unhelpful.
What is also unhelpful is being rude and snarky.
Firstly, a disclaimer...while I shouldn't really have to say this given the language I've used, I will anyway: I am by no means talking about ALL men.
The problem is that this is not an unfounded stereotype, made evident by the fact that the discrepancy between how household and childcare tasks are divided between partners (heterosexual, at least) is still a significant and prevalent issue.
Subconsciously or otherwise, this sadly rings true with a lot of men, who, at least in part, want—and sometimes expect—a woman who will adopt every role a mother would take. That is, taking care of most of the chores/household management/childcare duties, and without protest. Even when, say, both of them work full-time jobs.
Too many of these men either 1. do not know how to do simple household tasks (and are not unlikely to have adopted learned helplessness as a result), 2. deliberately delay or fuck up chores to get their partner to get frustrated and give up on asking for help altogether, or 3. simply don't notice how much more work their partner is doing than they are.
I acknowledge that a lot of boys aren't taught how to cook do chores as much as girls are, and those who haven't been were failed by the adults in their life in that regard. It's not a valid excuse once you're an adult, though.
Ooo that's kind of a good point too.
It was definitely dunking for internet points.
"I dont need therapy, I just need to have a woman that reminds me of my mother and will fuck me"
Ok? So what's your point?
I wonder if there's a market for male-centric therapy. As in "I've got a loada wood that needs chopping. Come chop wood with me and we'll talk about stuff". You know, give 'em something to do with their hands while they talk. Obviously you probably couldn't do that with someone who's known for being aggressive and has a criminal record, but someone who has trouble talking about their feelings and doesn't feel comfortable just sitting in a room or on a Teams call and would rather feel like they're accomplishing something.
This seems like a remarkably good idea but I still wouldn't gender it. Say it's "hands on therapy for physically oriented people" or something. I'm sure there are plenty of non-male humans who would benefit.
Hell, it might even work for my girlfriend who will go to insane lengths to avoid sitting down and having a conversation about anything personal. If it works, I owe you an upvote or something.
It definitely works. Get into some hard work with another person - sweat, scream, and get bloody together. They'll start talking deep shit soon enough (and so will you).
I'm a non-human who would absolutely love to be building shit while talking during therapy instead of using a fidget toy while avoiding eye contact because looking at someone looking at me and being vulnerable at the same time is NOT IT for me (yet).
And it already exists, called occupational therapy or ergotherapy.
Occupational therapy is a thing, but it is a very different thing. Occupational therapy is part of rehab that helps patients regain or retain activities of daily living like dressing, bathing, and feeding themselves, etc.
And it can mean building something with them and then talking about how they are. I work closely together with OTs who do exactly that.
I just go out drinking with my buds and we vent about shit. There's rarely any solutions but that's because the shit we're venting about is the world falling apart, not anything we can fix. But it does help a little to get it out of our system.
I don't want to imagine what the insurance would be on a service like this. Customers chopping their own wood. That's an OSHA violation waiting to happen.
Does OSHA even still exist?
Well it's a federal agency right so I assume everyone's been fired.
Safety is so woke.
Probably no worse than the bars where you can throw axes.
Yeah, it does exist. Usually in group settings. But not usually with sharp objects.
That's called triangulation! Focusing on a different task makes it easier to have vulnerable conversations.
Like the boy scouts for adults?
I don't like legitimizing Freud cause like all his ideas that permeated popular culture are total bull but holy shit, paging Dr Freud.
He's next tweet... "Use my promo code to join Andrew Tates Hustlers Academy."
“All the battles he fought that day” sir your target audience mostly works in air conditioned offices with a coffee machine five feet from their desks, calm down.
Honey, can you come nurture and restore my energy? I've been sending emails all day.
That may be true, but office work definitely has challenges of its own.
Oh absolutely, it’s not that I have a problem with. It’s more the need that these losers have to lionise everything they do to the point of parody. Everything is framed in these grand terms of war and civilisation. They can’t just be having a rough day at work, they’re warriors fighting battles. They can’t just go to the gym to keep fit and improve themselves, they’re alpha males holding up the ideals of Western civilisation. They can’t just settle down and raise a family, they’re continuing the proud legacy of their forefathers and upholding family values. You get the picture.
It’s such a naked attempt to avoid anything that might be in the slightest bit emasculating and it’s honestly pathetic. They’re terrified of being perceived as anything other than a tough macho man that can only communicate through violence and threats. They think it makes then look like strong men when it actually does the opposite. Strong-willed people don’t talk like this.
Yeah, that is definitely quite silly.
Are you saying this because you are aware of that guy worldview (maybe you looked into him) or did you manage to infer all this from a single tweet?
Like, I agree about the substance if we are talking about the manosphere. But it seems a bit quick to assume this guy is part of "them" just from this, no?
I’m pretty familiar with this guy. This is what he’s like pretty much all the time. He’s very much part of the manosphere.
OK, fair enough. I had never heard of him.
My dude has a point. Dudes need to figure out how to talk about their issues rather than expecting whatever woman is nearest to be their mom.
Yeah. It's good to see men's support groups form here and there off the internet. Some real support that isn't baiting men into radical views.
I don't think therapy is a particularly good substitute for having loved ones you can be intimate with. Nor is relationships necessarily tools for learning to deal with every dysfunction that one could have.
It's the exact inverse; therapy is a tool for learning how to deal with your deficiencies, while relationships are there for having loved ones you can be intimate with
Men can always care for each other and stop expecting women to do all the work.
Yeah this is something I’ve been trying to walk the talk about.
I joined an adults sports league and have a few friends I call almost daily on rotation (whether they want it or not lol) and I’ve started feeling a lot more fulfilled and less anxious.
Most of those friends expect my calls now, and I get questioned if I can’t make it to a practice or game. It feels good to have your presence desired, whether it’s in a romantic or platonic relationship. There’s an epidemic of men who think that that void can only be filled with a lover.
I wish everyone would follow your example
Or we can just produce fewer of them.
"Stop expecting women to do all the work." All the work?
So men should be expected to do the (actual) work and the emotional work?
So what good are women? Baby ovens?
You incels are so weird.
Lol. If you only knew.
I could explain you, but your wouldn’t understand
Ok let me go, men, stop fighting battles no one asked you to, your lame ass warrior complex undermines your potential for kindness.
but i’m fighting in the name of kindness, i’m so confused right now
I hearby ask you to fight whatever battles you want, as long as you're not a dick to anyone about it. Hopefully this frees up any confusion.
i shall carry the fight in your name
you gotta do loving in the name of fightness....? I think
wait
naming in the love of fights?
War Love, Not Fight!
i truly hope you and i are gonna confuse the fuck out of some AI bot scraping this conversation.
The goal is ~75% of the time give helpful advice, and the other ~25% of the time be a weirdo just to throw em off.
At least that is how I justify my behavior anyways.
we are digital warriors, my dear internet friend
Now go fight in awar or go to prison while your sister gets to choose to stay home.
i got it, and i honestly think it works!
kind naming in the fight for love
Who needs therapy when you can foist off all of your emotional needs on one person?
tbh in the world we live in i think we all need a bit of therapy. But relying on your partner exclusively for that is a bad idea in the long run. They can offer their support but at the end of the day they can't fix you and they definitely don't have the skills to guide you.
Well it depends entirely on why you need therapy doesn't it.
One of the biggest problems and causes of depression is loneliness, if that was the case being in a relationship would actually help with that.
That's true, but the response is just as bad. Couples are supposed to support each other. Hell, friends are supposed to support each other. This is a basic part of humanity.
I need therapy. I also need intimacy. Since I cannot find intimacy, I am trying to make do with therapy.
Yeah this interaction is really weird. I don't agree with the second guys statement at all. Wanting to be in a relationship is a perfectly normal thing to want and isn't mummy issues.
Where does the woman go when she needs to be nurtured and have her batteries restored? Men aren't the only ones fighting battles out there. In a healthy relationship, you're supporting each other.
Also, not everybody is looking for a woman who is "soft" or "feminine". Maybe I want somebody who's a rough-and-tumble badass. I have a feeling that kind of a person would be a better support for my personality.
It's also worth noting...you shouldn't be using your partner as your therapist. If you're constantly trauma-dumping on somebody, it isn't fair to them, and it isn't fair to you, because they aren't trained in how to help you like a therapist is. Sure, cry on their shoulder when life is hard and all that, but if you're having mental health problems, go see somebody who's board-certified.
Tbh nothing was said about "men" not reciprocating that same function. We are all discussing based on assumptions, but I think it's totally fair to have someone with whom you can discuss the daily hardships of life, vent and share the burdens, while feeling loved. Obviously, you also have to be that person for your partner. I also wouldn't categorize the above as "trauma dumping", just a regular relationship where you share the bad in addition of the good.
No idea what OP meant exactly (not that I care), but a lot of the answers here assume the worst and go on a tangent IMHO.
OP started with "men do not need a therapist", and then implied that their wife or girlfriend should be their therapist instead. This is, in fact, an unhealthy dynamic, and that is why people called it out as such.
The way I read it, it implied that they should have a place to open up and have intimacy. I read it more like "the lack of that is what creates the necessity to go to therapy".
Sure, having an caring and empathetic partner might help me cope with my intrusive thoughts, anxiety, and ADHD, but I still need a therapist. My therapist understands how my brain works and gives me strategies for dealing with maladaptive behaviors. My partner likely wouldn't have that kind of education, and even if she did, that's not her job.
Additionally, there's already a lot of stigma around mental illness, especially for men, and that causes them to not seek professional help, because they see that as admitting to a character flaw. Messages like this aren't helping.
The post didn't mention it has to be one-sided. A helpful and healthy answer for those concerned of reciprocity could be along the lines of "it's cool, but I'd like to add women need support no less than men. Also, preferences may differ, so overgeneralizing on what men want isn't right".
Let's also add "Sometimes, men do need a therapist".
Sure, absolutely! Neither one of the original posters is fully right.
I think both parties are wrong here. Mothers do not need to be feminine or soft either. What the fuck does that even mean. FeMiNiNe sOFt women!!! It's just coded language for submissive, self-sacrificing domestic slave.
Ya missing the point. The dude said "men need". I do not give a flying fuck what men like this think they "need" from women.
Obviously you do though.
I should be more precise for you "gotcha!" pedants: I will not change a single thing about myself or feel a single ounce of shame or influence based on the above statement. I only care in that I vociferously oppose its misogynistic premise and believe it is worth it to call out when I see it. Happy? God I hate people like you.
That's nice, I actually "don't give a flying fuck" though, I've been hated by better I promise.
edit: language
Or, y know, both? Most people need intimacy, but also if you have a problem, resolving it in therapy is a responsible and good option and we should stop the mental health stigma.
it's insane how jreg (youtuber) gave me the most solid understanding of relationships that was so obvious that I couldn't believe we didn't understand already, it's a mixture of them all, it's not a partner or a good friend group or parents, it's to be able to have them all, a therapist can be a guiding figure a mentor and another node to release stress learn from mistakes and overall a decent person to be in contact with even if your thoughts were in control and you were in a good state of mind.
What a pleasant surprise among the defensive takes. Thank you for sharing it.
The most problematic situation seems to be when not having access to all of them and trying to push your partner into fulfilling all of these roles. To be your partner, parent and a friend(sometimes a therapist even). Sure it's nice of them if they can, but it shouldn't be their daily responsibility.
This is the best description of the issue I've seen.
Heh, how bout those alphas, amirite?
¿Por qué no los dos?
Someone who would lay down in bed with me and hold me while I cry would be a tremendous help to my mental health, but a therapist would be real nice, too. Too bad it's a five-month wait to get in to see one around here.
men dont need therapy when they have meth, coke and fent
*want
Men need friends, not bros.
If you thought women growing up with uncaring fathers was bad, wait till you meet men who grew up with uncaring mothers.
Honestly therapy isn’t for everyone. There’s lots of shitty therapists out there that do more damage than good, and far more often than not it’s expensive. I agree with the sentiment here but people on the internet really need to stop suggesting it to everyone all the time.
Everyone should see a therapist. Not every day or even every year but it's one of the best preventative measures you can have. People bring it up because a lot of folks who struggle with basic emotional health problems don't see one or feel a stigma around it.
If your therapist sucks or just isnt a good fit for you, you find a new one. Like you would a mechanic, or doctor, or barista.
Do you tell kids who scraped their knee to go see a doctor?
Sometimes I do. We have great healthcare. Can send a couple pics of a scrape like that and they note it incase anything happens which pretty much is never. And we can count the topical we buy or have delivered against the deductible.
It helps get the system down pat and shows our kid how to use it incase they have bigger questions for their doctor later or need to take care of a more serious problem without us.
You're correct. Therapy isn't for everyone. It's for people with mental health problems.
Therapists are just like any other professional. There are good ones and bad ones. If you're seeing a bad one, keep looking until you find a good one.
Yes, exactly. But there are people even in the replies here trying to say everyone needs a therapist.
Circumstances being less than ideal doesn't mean that "therapy isn't for everyone". Therapy is therapy.
Therapy is based entirely on therapists, which are also human, and is just a job. And lots of people suck at their jobs.
The first therapist I saw told me "Some people just don't enjoy life, maybe you're one of those people" which was a strange thing to hear from a "mental health professional" and set off alarm bells.
You're probably just supposed to feel shitty all the time. That will be $500 please.
The ironic thing is a lot of the “everybody needs therapy” crowd have never been to therapy. One therapist told my friend his addiction to prescribed drugs was a moral failing on his part. This lead him to attempt suicide by cop. This would not have happened if he had not gone to a therapist.
Okay but those therapists aren't doing their job. They're not giving therapy. That doesn't mean not everyone can benefit from therapy.
Now you’re creating a logical fallacy. I’m not interested in engaging with that.
🥺
I mean he described therapy
Especially when your partner is a vengeful mother figure that physically, emotionally, and spiritually destroys you over several years until you finally leave it all behind and recognize how empty your life has been and how much self blame was gaslit and manipulated out of you.
A therapeutic mommy!
reminds me of this scene from Bojack Horseman
Men need a loving relationship and therapy.
meh, I just need my cat.
Look at the user name, it's a truthful joke.
I would say that, conditional to the man having a partner, intimacy is a hell of a lot more accessible than therapy. Provided that intimacy is not rationed or made conditional, this could provide more lasting and more timely healing than therapy as well.
With that said, we really need to normalize men seeking therapy. There are far too many men where the conditions above are not met, and so could and would benefit more from therapy than intimacy.
I can't afford therapy. And I desperately need it.
There should be options - crisis numbers and volunteer work around it. For free.
You can find some help over using a search engine 💪
I get that the original was a bit sensationalist but I don’t see a problem with the overall message. Yes it was needlessly gendered but again that doesn’t change the message.
People need people that care about them and will listen. That’s it.
offer free therapy from people passionate about helping others, instead of charging them an arm and a leg for an hour of one persons narrow minded view of the world. i think more people would get therapy if that were the case.
until then, its okay to get it if you can afford it, or rely on friends, and family when you need to.
however on a personal note, nothing in my life has removed the burden of existence and replaced it with univeral connection, joy, and love for others and all living things like magic mushrooms have.
and on another personal note, therapy cannot change the external world, just how you choose to react to it. and especially these days, introspection and pills cannot save you from fascism, climate change, WW3, and poverty. among other things. it may just change your perspective on it.
throwing therapy into someones face as the only answer is a small minded view of reality. its not the answer for everyone. but it does have value in certain specific situations, for certain, specific people.
Depending on the point of view, each one of us is a certain specific person, in a specific situation.
Edit: i hear you on the magic mushrooms. Actually a silly name, for such peace of mind bringing mushrooms. It is also not just a "high" feeling. The things you think about, under the influence, stay with you after the experience.
And, for me at least, i came out of every experience, with lasting sane decisions. It made me a calmer person, but also much more active physically, by embracing exercises.
Is difficult to explain and since it's a mushroom, not a human produced drug with the intention to get you high, who knows what real benefits it brings with it?
I read somewhere, that every mushroom experience actually rewires some of your neurons.
To all those saying, "but why shouldn't men want to be cared for?"
This meme plays into a narrative the makes women subservient.
It suggests that only men "battle", and that being a man and "battling" entities them to care by women.
No where in this is acknowledgement that women have burdens too, and that all people benefit from care.
No where in this is any hint of reciprocity. If anything, it implies that the "joy" of taking care of "her man" should be enough.
No. Walk the fuck on. Having a penis doesn't entitle you to one-sided care.
The other thing implied by this - that women should 'naturally' be able to fix 'her man'. But if a woman in broken? Oof - 'she has Daddy issues' and better fix herself, right?
And what if a woman tries to fix 'her man' and fails? Oh look - isnt that convenient - society just took all his faults and made them her failures. Wow! Who wouldn't want to sign up for that??
And just look at that success rate. You can count up the number of women killed by intimate partners and see how great this plan is.
Society really needs to get past this childish narrative that tells men they should expect to find a manic pixie dream girl who lives only to make him happy. Men make fun of girls for believing in Prince Charming, but this is truly the more destructive fairy tale.
Yeah my fucking battle of testing software and doing deep dives on bugs.
vomit
Men can't have a desire for comfort and intimacy that isn't criticized and characterised as maternal? Same shit as calling male friendships gay. This is the left wing bully. Better with emotions yet use that as a weapon of coercion, no different than a fist. Both sides are filled with assholes.
Men need intimacy, but that isn't a substitute for a therapist.
Comfort & intimacy ≠ therapy.
Trauma therapy helped me a lot, speak for yourself. CBT is still over applied in my opinion, though, when other therapies are appropriate.
And don't ask for CBT from a hooker unless you know what your getting into.
"Wait no, I meant cbD! Ahhhhhhh, my balls! 😩"
CBT is often used to get you to gaslight yourself, which is more effective than getting others to do it for you.
Kinda snarky, kinda serious on this comment
That's because we don't really understand how brains work. Psychology is just barely coming out of the dark ages. You're going to run into a lot of psychologists who'll want to do the mental equivalent of balancing your humors or sticking leeches on you.
It’s a shame that in some cultures simple friendships men, women, mixed are not accompanied by physical touch too, like a hug. And also being able to talk openly about the struggles, like us women do with our friends. You get a lot from a friend’s hug or them listening to you.
Endorphins from sex are absolutely not a long term mental health treatment. It might improve your mood at that moment, but not your health.
Ideally both, yes
Maybe these men should stop seeing women as objects and relationships and transactions
testosterone is the world's most dangerous chemical.
Why?
That's not on testosterone. At most it plays a part in it, but this behavior is the result of a patriarchal society. (Solely) blaming testosterone defends shitheels like this one, and diminishes people with testosterone-dominated bodies that are different
I am struggling to deal with j suicidal thoughts about how awful i must be because I am a man. Like I sometimes think there needs to be a brutal cleansing.
You don't owe anyone anything. You did not choose to be born, you were thrust into existence and it is unfair to you to feel like you ought to "get out of everyone's way" via suicide. The world put you here, not you. Even if you earnestly think you are awful because you are a man.
Further you almost certainly aren't awful, because you feel empathy for the rest of the world because you want to avoid being a burden to them. Awful people don't give a shit if they hurt other people or the world.
A side note, if you really think because you are a man specifically that you are awful: You might unironically just want to transition into a woman.
Thank you. But I never really felt like a woman either to be honest. And frankly I don't think it will help, it will just make me a target and frankly there are a lot of liberal I think are only performative in the stance on trans rights.
There are plenty of examples of wonderful men, go find one and make friends with him. Unless you mistreated women constantly, why would you think, by default, that your are awful?
It's just easier. Like, the left can recruit a lot of these young men if they tried and came up up with strategies beside preaching again and again and telling them their problems aren't real? But they are written off before the can even speak and the dialog regarding tjis issues is so limited thats hard to talk about And if you advocate for them suddenly you are an incel, so what's the point of even trying? For fucks sake one of the most up voted comments on here is someone with the name misandry so how can it be argued that you have no real place in among the left? So I just keep my head down and agre with what is said about us because it's easier then to keep banging my head against the wall.
And my interests often limit my ability to find good people to be friends with. Though I will admit igot some good friends among them who don't suck.
I don’t understand how you make this a political thing. Do you by chance live in the US? There is a lot of polarisation there.
As a woman myself, I think some people understand feminism differently than others. I don’t agree with women that just spit hate on men simply because they are men. Feminism is about empowering women to be whatever they like and be equal to men in society, relationships, family, work. I had my fair share of discrimination in my life based on my gender, and I constantly fight against it, but that does not make me just hate men by default. I know a lot of men that are on the same page with me about how we should be as a society. And a society where we are all getting along is so much better than a polarised one.
I am lucky to have found a husband that is secure with his masculinity(whatever that means to him), that he does not feel threatened about me having, for example, hobbies like woodworking, or having some muscles on my body. That does not mean I don’t find him masculine, because I do.
We are all shades of masculinity and femininity, and blocking one of these sides from us is just stupid. We are what we are and we can get along just fine with each other with a bit of effort. We don’t have to hate on the ones that are not like us.
To this I say, try new hobbies and activities. Volunteer somewhere, that will make you find nice people. You need to find friends that are awesome for you, not just that don’t suck. Some great friendships can be very healing for the soul.
Yeah, I am American so everything is political and there is no middle ground. Either you are a fascist or not and that is it.
As for my hobby I am kind of underselling it. It's hard to get into, but it's the only thing I genuinely love after years of picking up and droppingl a lot of other interests over the years. plus i am at a point where i do make some money, not something i can live on by any means but ist something i am proud of. And like I said I did meet some genuinely good friends I probably would never have met otherwise.
I really don't want to mention it because the community around it jn my area is small and while doubt anyone I know uses lemmy it wouldn't be hard to figure out who in am if they looked into it and I have said some dark shit here that would fuck it all up for me. I know it's unrealistic, but I like what I do well enough to not want to that risk.
It is literally the devil.
I hate it. Thanks for making the first reaction anger cunt chemical.
We use to jokingly say if my mom had had testosterone the world would have been in trouble lmao
Almost all people have some need (depending on the definition) for physical intimacy. Not just men.
That said, people saying men need a therapist aren't saying a therapist would help men and a therapist would authentically be in their best self interest (unless you are extremely patronizing). They're saying a therapist would fix them, because men need fixing. Its not out of some genuine desire to make men happier.
What we really need to say is men need re-education. Because it is primarily men that are fucking up the world.
Maybe liberals need to take a pro suicide stance on men? Starting in school ideally to make it easy. Because of we are inherently bad what other choice is there when you are not welcome in any liberal group? This is kind of sarcasm. But I really am out of ideas. When rhe left won't see you as any different then musknor tate regardless of their views then there is no hope.
I'm not a liberal. I'm also a man myself. I know you were just being a bit of an antagonistic shitposter, but I would not advocate for suicide obviously. But I've already proposed a fairly radical solution of just having fewer male babies in the first place, though as a solution to a different problem: men are romantically lonely, women are not romantically lonely.
Suicide solves the problem sooner.
I wouldn't recommend therapy unless you suffer from a debilitating mental disorder that is responsible for you not being able to participate in life in a meaningful way. Just my opinion.
I think everyone would benefit from a tool box / wellness discovery session that individual research or time spent with a therapist can offer. Essentially build out a mental health “first aid kit” for yourself in times of emergency. Many don’t - and so their first serious crisis (especially with men) ends violently.
Even if there’s 0 wrong in your life - knowing what things make you well and how to leverage them when you eventually lose someone you care about or have to cope with severe and debilitating grief is important.
Saying you don’t need to buy a med kit unless you have a severed artery sort of means you will be behind the coping and recovery process. This can be accomplished in 1 or 2 sessions with support or individual research.
Just my counter point as someone who did psych screening services - coached people with 0 psych / mental health issues prior out of self harm scenarios and got them in my car or an ambo to go to the hospital. But also never went to or believed in therapy for myself (and had my first session a decade after that job at the age of 35). I should have gone earlier. But I was fine and successful without it. Married / promoted / succeeding in life - So didn’t.
Whoa, hold the fuck on. Are you seriously suggesting that expensive, paid mental health care be used to treat serious mental health problems, rather than as a way of dismissing half the planets emotions?
That is true, but a "debilitating mental disorder" means completely different things to every person. So, you should go to therapy if you feel you need it, which means that trying to decide for someone makes no sense at all.
I didnt decide anything for anyone other than myself, which makes it an opinion. That is how opinions work.
I completely agree with you. I dunno who this alexnroberto guy is but based on a 2 second search, he comes off as one of those manosphere dudes so I guess we can assume that his comment isn't based on mutual support, but only the woman supporting the man. I disagree with that world view, but if the message stood alone, I don't see the issue in partners leaning on one another instead of going to therapy for every little thing that's wrong in their lives.
Be like going to the dentist to have him brush and floss your teeth for you.
There is also this one uncomfortable truth that the therapy crowd doesn't really want to acknowledge and that is that therapy is a luxury for the rich. Telling someone to go to therapy is actually pretty rude because not everyone can afford to throw thousands at therapy no matter how much or how little they need it.
I speak from experience. Therapy, if you are poor, can do more harm than good.
Not everyone lives in th USA. We have therapy covered by public health for free in my country.
Not disagreeing, just see this association with expensive therapy and the USA a lot. Mental health care, as well as dental, is out of pocket or has a large co pay in a lot of countries that otherwise have a good healthcare system.
So? Not everyone lives in your country either.
OP is right, many poor people don't have therapy covered and that's a calculus they have to deal with.
You rubbing in your free therapy doesn't help anyone in countries that aren't yours.
I don't live in the US either. I actually live in Denmark and while we have free healthcare, it doesn't cover everything. I think they changed it in recent years so that youths would be able to get free therapy, but when I was young, there wasn't any of that. You could get 10 sessions with a therapist and pay less thanks to insurance, but after those ten sessions it was full price if you wanted to keep the same therapist and I couldn't afford that at the time. I ended up having to change therapists every ten sessions and by the end I was worse off mentally than before I started. Hence why i say that therapy is a luxury for the rich. It still is today if you are over a certain age. I could probably afford therapy if I really needed it, but it would still be expensive and with how things are going in the world, I would probably not spend money on a therapist anytime soon unless it was a life or death situation.
I'm glad therapy is free in your country though. Where do you live?
I'm sick of the division. Feminism and incel are trash created only to divide and distract lower classes problems meanwhile billionaires making more and more.
Yes it is. Your fight is sectorized and the only goal is to create a men apartheid. I have a lot of examples to give. Metro in some countries have women only wagons, with the excuse that some idiots were annoying women. OK so for a few idiot morons all men have to pay. And yes it affects, sometimes the only empty wagon is the exclusive. Apartheid.
Seriously?
This guy would be one of the people pushing women and children out of his way to get to the lifeboats on the Titanic.
Exactly how is this related?
I'm not surprised that you don't understand what I mean after saying that there's a 'man apartheid'.
You're a fucking moron.
Yeah totally my imagination when feminists graffiti houses and statues with messages like "kill your father". I am a crazy person who is watching visions. FEMINAZIS.
So, are you willing to donate your sit if you were on the Titanic? lol...
0 arguments. Your posture is there are some men that are violent so all of them should be banned. Not the person.
Aaa! brainn... huurt! Must .. reach.... safety valve...
whew i thought i was a goner y'all
This has gotta be written with ai.