People are getting caught up on semantics vs. ethics in this thread. Is it vandalism? Yes, textbook. Is it okay? Also yes, fuck these people for bankrolling his coup.
In the trolley problem, is it "wrong" to divert the train from many to one? Given the immediate effect that killing has had, I don't think it is unreasonable think that taking that one life has (stochastically) saved at least a two digit number of other lives.
Well, you do have the consider the owner's safety; when they peel it off, the whole damn thing might explode into a ball of fire. Still on the whole, this seems morally positive only providing a small dangers to non-tesla cars around it.
How can something made of mica be claimed to be biodegradable? It's not really harmful for the environment because mica is in plenty of soils and it's food safe but it's not biodegradable.
Sometimes petty revenge can be cathartic. And maybe, just maybe, it might make some MAGA rube think about the president's role in government enough to snap them out of whatever spell Trump has these people under.
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Morality is subjective. But it's an interesting question. It sounds like the obvious answer should be yes, but who decides what is moral?
Even if we go by what the majority thinks, does that automatically make it moral? There was a time when the moral thing was to burn witches at the stake. We'd call that immoral today.
Where can i buy this? Exactly what I'm looking for, but its hard to search for lol
Edit: on second thought this would probably cause more harm than good, to folks who might see the flag and feel unsafe. I'll have to come up with something better
IANAL. So to answer the question "Is this vandalism" it depends. If it's a sticker that takes considerable effort to remove then yes. But static cling or magnets are not. Hope this helps
I hope that removing it is next to impossible because it breaks down into tiny little wispy shreds, I also hope the adhesive strips the stainless clear coat.
I really hope that everybody who bought one of those cars has the worst possible experience someone can have with the vehicle. It seems designed to give them that and I for one look forward to it. I hope the price on them drops so low that they're barely worth the price of a battery... I wouldn't mind owning one of them to repurpose as a power wall.
That's a fair thing to want. But one thing you probably know about cyberfuck owners is that they're petty little shit birds. So be prepared for the small claims.
And Tesla's have cameras. On an unrelated note, be sure to wear a mask when you go out in public. Covid is still a thing. Don't wanna slip up n catch the vid.
According to the cop who stopped to talk to me after I stuck a couple post-it notes in front of a speed camera lens, even if it can be easily removed, it's still vandalism.
Would you like to explain to the dealership that gave me a shitty old loaner Tesla why you decided to vandalize
Surely you realize that analogy is flawed? That's not an old loaner—even if it is shitty—it's an eighty-thousand dollar and higher, highly controversial, highly marketed, nearly experimental vehicle. No reasonable person is chasing after poor sods with old loaners to vandalize.
Don’t vandalize other people’s shit. You don’t know what their situation is. Golden rule, motherfucker.
Since we're being nice about it, how about don't support nazis. Golden rule, dipshit.
...I don't think you're a dipshit, but I do think "vandalism or not" is irrelevant, here. Property isn't sacred, and even if it were, vandalizing nazi symbols would be far from the worst sin to commit.
Are we talking about the same thing, here? The post says cybertruck. I reference the cybertruck. You bring up an old loaner, again. Is your old loaner an eighty-thousand dollar shitbox or not?
No reasonable person is chasing after poor sods with old loaners to vandalize.
I got harassed today for my loaner
I'm sorry you got harassed, but I must ask: did your car get vandalized?
If you are this inconvenienced by driving a Tesla that puts me off from buying or renting one, since I wouldn't want to go through that. Makes me want to stay away from Tesla with what a hassle it is. I'd ask for another loaner personally, but more power to you for wanting to keep sticking with it.
Yeah plan to. It seems like a very scary car to be associated with in the current public climate. Brand has become radioactive and too ideological tied to political figures. Seems like anger is just slowly increasing over the past several weeks too.
Would you like to explain to the dealership that gave me a shitty old loaner Tesla why you decided to vandalize their property and make me have to deal with it through my insurance?
I think the reason most people vandalize secretly is so that they wont have to explain themselves at all. Generally speaking, they hope the vandalism speaks for them and don't particularly give a fuck if it dings some jerk's insurance. As for the golden rule, I think you've got that confused too: Most people who vandalize in this way are hoping to inspire others to do the same, so golden rule very much in play.
The difference is I would never even get in a Tesla. So yeah I'm treating others how I would like to be treated, if I was stupid enough to be driving a cybertruck.
America is dead because truly awful people spent 100 thousand dollars on these junk vehicles to help finance its demise, and are still proudly driving it for all to see while feeling superior to everyone else. It is not vandalism, it is free speech.
I know someone that buys a swasticar is still poor compared to the centibillionaires, but I can't help but think that if you can afford to burn more than 100k on a luxury vehicle, you're not exactly "with" the working class.
This is not far off from the logic of acting like a cop is part of the working class. This isn't "working class attacking each other". This is literally a sticker with the richest dude on the world on it. This is shaming what is most likely some petty bourgeoisie. Or someone that thinks their class interest align with them.
Yes, brain surgeons are working class. They earn a lot because they actually produce a lot of value. If you suffer from a brain disease, getting surgery to fix it is probably one of the most valuable things you can get (depending on the severity, it will be the most valuable thing). Additionally, it requires a lot of skill.
Yes, what the hell do you think the word "working" is doing there?
If you're work for a living, you're working class. Even if you get paid a big salary, you're still a person who works a job for it.
A brain surgeon makes money by working on brains and therefore is in the working class; the person that owns the hospital makes money by extracting rents from the brain surgeon and therefore is in the capitalist class.
Upper class and middle class don't necessarily correspond directly with those terms.
I see. That's not what I would have thought the term applied to. I would have figured more people who are hourly or perhaps low salary, maybe a manager at a fast food restaurant. At the rate quoted above, the payment is only a little less than my mortgage. I would not have put someone with that kind of disposable income into the working class.
You can label different sections of the working class but on the scale of history and societies the only real divisions in society is between the class people who trade their labor for money and the class of people who earn money simply by virtue of having money.
The poorest Walmart employee and the richest doctor have more in common than the doctor and a person of inherited wealth. You'll interact with doctors and engineers many times a year in your community. While you'll probably never be in the same room as a wealthy person.
Laws that protect labor, provide social safety nets, provide for education, security, etc all benefit the Walmart worker and doctor. But they're completely worthless to the people who own their own security, pay for their own education and never have to worry about starving to death if they're unable to work.
We're seeing the wealthy taking control and deciding that they can save money by simply choosing to not support working people. After all, what are we going to do? Stop working for them?
Yes I understand the concept. Not sure I agree with it. I am retired. By that definition, I am in the latter and I can tell you, I'm not flying around on private jets or forcing lower wages on people. I do feel rich because I have discarded the yoke of the people I worked to make richer, but that doesn't really mean I've joined them.
Others pointed this out but I wanted to put numbers on it for fun. Working class means you work for a living, doing some form of labor rather than being able to live and earn just off of your capital. However, someone could then try and argue that Musk for example "works" as CEO, so we need numbers.
The average cost of living in the US is apparently $61334.
The average return of investment in the stock market is roughly 10%.
That makes this part easy: you need roughly $613,340 in investments to no longer be working class in my book.
It's very frustrating to me. I bought a used Model 3 back in 2019 for like 35k. I'm not rich.
I know a guy who bought a Cybertruck. He makes around $140k a year which is better than most but still nowhere near what I would call "rich." Was it a stupid decision? Yeah. Does he support Trump or Musk personally? No. He saw the launch announcement, put in a reservation years ago, and went ahead with it when he got his chance because he was hyped about it for his own personal aesthetic reasons. That people think he's somehow to blame for Musk is stupid. That someone might damage his car, costing repairs he can't really afford because he spent it all on a stupid large car loan, but forcing him to pay Musk even more to get it repaired is so amazingly dumb that I can't actually comprehend the thought process.
Some people with Cybertrucks are probably a part of the problem. Some are just people who got hyped. But in this thread are people who unironically claim that buying a Cybertruck is supporting a Nazi while they themselves pay for Amazon Prime, use Gmail, own an Oculus, eat Nestle products, and buy gas at Exxon.
It just feels weird that this car is the line people draw. I guess because it's expensive, but when you look at how much some of those big luxury trucks cost you've almost certainly seen more expensive ones on the road more frequently than you've seen Cybertrucks.
It just feels weird that this car is the line people draw.
To me the problem is that it's an expensive, oversized, poorly made vehicle designed by a Nazi who even at the time of announcement was expressing some pretty distasteful views.
Other older Tesla's I can give the benefit of the doubt to as they're some of the cheapest and at times most ubiquitous electric vehicles available, but the cyber truck is not cheap and it doesn't predate Elon's obvious slide into being a nazi
Thank you for having an actually good take on this, I'm blocking most of the people in this thread for their stupidity. My experience with Lemmy seems to improve the more people I block lol
What's wrong about vandalism? No, I am serious, people use vandalism as a proxy to name every action they do not like. Fuck this. Vandalism for me is equal as destruction of property.
Is sticker a destruction? No.
Is paint on sculpture of long dead bastard a vandalism? Still no.
No me it's the effort required to return something to its original state so i disagree with you on the paint on a statue.
Also a sticker could be vandalism if it's one of those fuckers they use for cheap price tags that Never really come off. If it peels off easily in one go than no I wouldn't call it vandalism.
That sticker probably leaves a permanent mark since there's no clearcoat on the steel.
Stickers in general are a scourge on earth, slapping them on other people's property is vandalism.
Okay but we don't make such distinctions based on whether we are personally bothered. What the fuck. I know you people have the capacity for rational thought, but you are intentionally not using that capacity. Does it feel good? What are you getting out of it? Cuz it looks like you're grooming yourself.
In my mind, whether or not this person deserves it depends on when they bought the truck. If they ordered it long before Elmo began showing us how insane he really was, then they're just a bit of a douche. If they bought it since the salute, they deserve more than a sticker.
by the time the cybertruck was announced he was very publicly insane already.
also regardless of musk, this is a death trap that shouldn't be (and in normal countries isn't) allowed on the road at all. Just because the US law allows billionaires to kill children doesn't mean we should as well. a sticker is getting off easy.
From what I remember, putting this on a painted surface is vandalism because it can ruin the paint topcoat. Putting it on glass is NOT vandalism because it can be removed without damage.
I'm not sure about stainless steel, because I thought the whole point was that it could be cleaned, so I guess it depends on if they want to admit it's a bad finishing material or not.
cybertruck was announced 2019. presumably pre-orders opened then too. for a long time, you where legally not allowed to sell that thing (maybe still today - can't be bothered looking up tesla news). so there are for sure a lot of cybertruck owners, who bought it before he was a part of trump admin.
and even if you where allowed to sell it now - who would buy that pile of sheet metal?
I'm agreeing with you as well. I'm saying if they didn't cancel when the truck dropped, that's on them. Anyone seen driving one can catch birds all day.
Liberals trying to not defend Nazis challenge impossible.
Like, do you think the insulting part of this is the cock sucking? Elon has a cock (presumably) and anyone (man, women, enby) is sucking it by owning a Cyber truck.
This is anti Nazi. Holy shit liberals need to get their priorities straight.
They are right in that it is homophobic, just like how it is ableist to call people retarded.
Would you call someone holding a female Nazi as a role model a Nazi pussy licker or is it specifically the cock sucking that is seen as the hurtful part?
When's the last time you explicitly called a woman a cocksucker? It's used as a homophobic jab like 99% of the time.
Y'all attacking Nazis by implying they suck cock, with the implication that that's shameful (and not just because the cock is attached to a Nazi, give me a break).
Honestly though, the most insulting part of your comment is calling me a fucking liberal. Ew
I'm calling you a liberal as in a radlib sjw type liberal. I thought that was really obvious because it's how you're acting. I'm not calling you a capital L Liberal. Yes, words can more than one meaning and can also be offensive or not offensive given the context. But I guess it's obvious you don't understand the meaning of words or any nuance to how they are used. I mean that's kind of how this whole conversation started.
At the end of the day you're criticizing something that is meant to insult a Nazi. If you can understand the difference between a homophobic person puting a "I suck cock" sticker on a car and (let's say) a gay man putting a "Nazi Cocksucker" sticker on someone's car. You can also understand the nuance of any type of person puting the OPs sticker on someone's car. There is nuance and context that you are trying to remove to (1) criticize a sticker meant to insult a Nazi and (2) the use of cocksucker as an insult.
You're removing any of that context to hyper focus on something and pretend that nuance and context doesn't exist. Which is very very radlib of you.
The only person that you're defending in this situation that should actually be offended is a female or gay Nazi. So you're literally just defending the feelings of a Nazi. Unless you want to remove all context and nuance. Which is what you tried to do.
Despite the piece of shit Musk is, this is still someone's car. I don't know them personally or how they feel about the situation. Embarrassed, hopefully. I'd rather offer them the "bought this before I knew he was crazy" sticker. The antifascist energy should be directed somewhere other than someone's private vehicle. But where...
I bought a Tesla (not a cybertruck, gross) awhile back when fElon was in his "crazy but not obviously supporting Trump or a Nazi" phase. Now we're leaving the US because of his and Trump's bullshit, but we still need a car in the meantime. Moving is going to be so fucking expensive that we can't justify selling it, buying another car, then selling that car, so I'm just driving it in shame and dreading being harassed over it.
may I kindly suggest just putting a piece of electrical tape over the T insignia or perhaps an easily removable vinyl sticker indicating you don't support Nazis?
it's not your fault your car was made by a company owned by a Nazi... but people are understandably pretty fucking upset to have a Nazi running the country. caveat emptor.
may I kindly suggest just putting a piece of electrical tape over the T insignia or perhaps an easily removable vinyl sticker indicating you don't support Nazis?
Of course you may, but it's already done! I have the infamous "I bought this before we knew Elon was crazy" sticker. The car just feels tainted now.
The Nazi salute took things to another level, I wouldn't assume the owner is on board with that. I'd say he was just a typical billionaire CEO level of crazy when the cybertruck came out
Buying a CyberTruck is the equivalent of digging up John DeLorean, filling his corpse with bags of cocaine, strapping him to the front of a DeLorean that's been modified to shoot sparks into the gas tank when a moisture sensor is triggered, and then drive said cocaine death-trap into schools and other public services.
This might be a slight exaggeration, but it's pretty much literally exactly that.
He was clearly a douchebag from the start. He didn't even try to hide it. He didn't even actually do anything but buy existing companies and pay smart people to make things with the wealth his parents accrued through basically slavery. He surrounded himself with enough yes men that he started to feel like a god which led to our current situation.
He was always a piece of shit. It's not retroactive.
You're saying that the individual who is arguably most likened to Hitler in the entire planet accidentally threw a Nazi salute... twice? Get the fuck outta here.
So you went from "Nobody could possibly misinterpret it when you see the context!" to "He did it in the spur of the moment and that's why it looked awkward.".
So how long before we reach "Even if it was an intentional Nazi salute, I don't care anyway."?
You've got no balls, by the way. If you aren't willing to repeat EXACTLY what he did, then you are admitting that what he did is socially problematic and subject to misinterpretation. They key takeaway here is that despite the blowback he's still getting from it, Musk does not see anything problematic with it. That should tell you everything about who that gesture was meant for.
It's amazing a dude can do back to back Nazi salutes and people on the Internet will still defend it because "he said something afterwards that lets me deny what I saw with my lying eyes"
What's next? The dude goes around waving a Nazi flag but later on Twitter he proclaims he's now a Hindu. So I guess you'd still believe him? Come on mate. You can do this.
It's a duck mate. You can believe your eyes. It's ok. You've been lied to for a really long time and it's hard to undo all that because it defines a lot of who you are as a person. I've been there mate. The first step can be from this though. He did a Nazi salute. You don't have to unravel the rest of your beliefs yet. Just start with admitting what we all saw with our eyes. He did it twice just to make sure you knew.
Tell me. What is the difference between the swastika or the salute? I'm gonna guess the main difference is you haven't read 100 reply guys trying to come up with any reason to deny he's a Nazi. Do you know who does that? Nazis. Nazis know that it's still not expectable to be a Nazi. So they will always try to get you to "not believe your lying eyes". While always doing dog whistles to signal to other Nazis. But this salute wasn't a dog whistle. It was a fucking mega phone.
Dude, that was a (neo)nazi salute without a single doubt. I'm from Germany. We learned about this shit a lot. History class is like 90% related to ww2. We can spot a fucking nazi salute from miles away. You disgusting nazi apologist, fascist pick.
Why would I? He keeps doing that shit! He's actively supporting the far right extremist AfD in germany and he's doing the same many other European countries. He's a fucking nazi prick. And people who downplay this are nazi apologists. Fuck off.
Because you played something down the way certain people won't acknowledge the holocaust. It's disgusting and extremely hurtful to people who grew up learning about the awful shit the Nazis did. Elon is a fucking Neonazi and he's the richest fucking man on the world. That's extremely dangerous. We're just lucky he's dumb as a fucking rock.
Yet he's perfectly fine with people believing that it was? Only one type of person that wouldn't be tripping over themselves to make sure others didn't mistakenly think they were a Nazi... Take a wild guess who.
Funny to see you bending over backwards to defend some asshole who wouldn't even take the time piss on you if you burst into flames riding in one of his pyrotechnic monstrosities
Bruh, it was a nazi salute. Get over it. He knew what he was doing and he accomplished exactly that. He made a gesture that people perceived as a nazi salute, because it was 99% the same as a nazi salute and mirrored exactly what these far-right psychos were already doing, and then he gave just enough plausible deniability to keep people guessing who were on the fence, like you. Take a stand and hold him accountable, because this is some nazi-Orwellian doublespeak you've fallen victim to.
yeah the sticker's value is ruined now that the back is covered in shit
Yeah, they are.
Pathetic for owning a dumpster that pretends to be a truck.
Yeah, those cybertruck drivers are pretty lame.
People are getting caught up on semantics vs. ethics in this thread. Is it vandalism? Yes, textbook. Is it okay? Also yes, fuck these people for bankrolling his coup.
So basically... Wrong:Yes, Justified: Also yes
See Luigi
In the trolley problem, is it "wrong" to divert the train from many to one? Given the immediate effect that killing has had, I don't think it is unreasonable think that taking that one life has (stochastically) saved at least a two digit number of other lives.
If Musk is the one, I'd reverse the trolley and run him over again, just to make sure.
No it's:
Illegal: yes; wrong: no
Just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's wrong, for example feeding people experiencing homelessness in certain counties in the US.
Wrong: Technically yes, Morally no
Something, something, Brian Thompson...
"The other track was empty."
"I know. Help me put this in reverse."
A mango-american once said:
The Fanta Fascist
The Fantastic Fart
So, if Thomas Crooks had actually hit the target, he wouldn't have violated any law. Gotcha
Why bother. Theyll just catch on fire on their own.
some lack the courage to self-immolate, so by assisting the creature to reach its peak state, you are making the entire world better. a real twofer!
This is morally okay and ethical thing to do.
Well, you do have the consider the owner's safety; when they peel it off, the whole damn thing might explode into a ball of fire. Still on the whole, this seems morally positive only providing a small dangers to non-tesla cars around it.
Yes but only because that piece of shit truck is so badly designed a sticker will ruin the finish
The truck is ruining the sticker, you mean.
“Truck” being applied rather liberally to what basically amounts to a portable biohazard dump.
Yes, of the two the sticker is far worse off for being stuck to something so dumb
Naw I'm sure the door would fall off if you tried to take it off or something
Finish? I think you mean the layer of oxidized skin over the "stainless" steel?
It will make the
rustpatina come in unevenlyThe finish is already ruined because it's part of a Swasticar.
Remember: If you see someone vandalizing a Swasticar... No you didn't.
This is 2025’s “I did that” and I’m here for it
To be honest, Musk does indeed suck nazi cock.
Is he really that flexible?
Never said he did a good job. Cue the Benny hill tune...
And to be fair, the tweet is 100% accurate: only pathetic losers buy a Swasticar.
Nope, just a safety label.
Is throwing glitter on a turd vandalism?
Turd is biodegradable but glitter is not so no
Food glitter is biodegradable
Damn, didn't know that existed.
My future pasta is going to look fabulous!
Never been to a glitter strip club?
How can something made of mica be claimed to be biodegradable? It's not really harmful for the environment because mica is in plenty of soils and it's food safe but it's not biodegradable.
It's only vandalism if they used superglue to permanently glue the sticker on there. Not trying to give anyone ideas or anything.
Damn, where do I get some of those? I also want those obnoxious “Trump did that!” stickers for the gas pumps and eggs, like they did with Biden
Those stickers never made sense but if you find out where to get some let me know. I want to stick them.
Sometimes petty revenge can be cathartic. And maybe, just maybe, it might make some MAGA rube think about the president's role in government enough to snap them out of whatever spell Trump has these people under.
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Would be vandalism if it wasn't true
Yeah this person is just labelling things accurately, nothing to see here
Where can I get that sticker? I need to cover some Biden ones at the gas station
no
Yes, and it's cool
Yeah, the guy who drives it
Legality and morality are distinctly independent concepts.
Should laws follow morality?
Ideally, yes.
In capitalism…not even in the same universe
Morality is subjective. But it's an interesting question. It sounds like the obvious answer should be yes, but who decides what is moral?
Even if we go by what the majority thinks, does that automatically make it moral? There was a time when the moral thing was to burn witches at the stake. We'd call that immoral today.
This feels like a can of worms.
Oh look, Matt Wallace is a little shitstirring sycophant what a surprise
Here's one that grows when you touch it...
Hahaha
Yes, it's vandalism, but it's hilarious at the same time.
Where can i buy this? Exactly what I'm looking for, but its hard to search for lol
Edit: on second thought this would probably cause more harm than good, to folks who might see the flag and feel unsafe. I'll have to come up with something better
that's the swasticar sold by Elmo at your local Tesla dealership
Water balloons filled with bleach maybe if you are feeling hardcore. Bleach will stain stainless steel
it's not vandalism. it's a free upgrade 😂
Where might one procure such an adornment?
Imagine the shipping label, or the billing line.
"Nazi cock sticker"
IANAL. So to answer the question "Is this vandalism" it depends. If it's a sticker that takes considerable effort to remove then yes. But static cling or magnets are not. Hope this helps
I hope that removing it is next to impossible because it breaks down into tiny little wispy shreds, I also hope the adhesive strips the stainless clear coat.
I really hope that everybody who bought one of those cars has the worst possible experience someone can have with the vehicle. It seems designed to give them that and I for one look forward to it. I hope the price on them drops so low that they're barely worth the price of a battery... I wouldn't mind owning one of them to repurpose as a power wall.
You are looking for "eggshell" stickers...purposefully made for vandalism
I wouldn't even trust it for that tbh
Are there stickers that have hydrochloric acid in the adhesive?
Asking for a friend
That's a fair thing to want. But one thing you probably know about cyberfuck owners is that they're petty little shit birds. So be prepared for the small claims.
And Tesla's have cameras. On an unrelated note, be sure to wear a mask when you go out in public. Covid is still a thing. Don't wanna slip up n catch the vid.
According to the cop who stopped to talk to me after I stuck a couple post-it notes in front of a speed camera lens, even if it can be easily removed, it's still vandalism.
Just cause a cop says it doesn't make it true.
Hell, if a cop says it I generally assume the opposite is true until I verify for myself.
Maybe it's a factory optional extra someone chose.
Guerrilla brand reinforcement.
Vandalism or resistance?
Depends on the point of view.
Surely you realize that analogy is flawed? That's not an old loaner—even if it is shitty—it's an eighty-thousand dollar and higher, highly controversial, highly marketed, nearly experimental vehicle. No reasonable person is chasing after poor sods with old loaners to vandalize.
Since we're being nice about it, how about don't support nazis. Golden rule, dipshit.
...I don't think you're a dipshit, but I do think "vandalism or not" is irrelevant, here. Property isn't sacred, and even if it were, vandalizing nazi symbols would be far from the worst sin to commit.
Are we talking about the same thing, here? The post says cybertruck. I reference the cybertruck. You bring up an old loaner, again. Is your old loaner an eighty-thousand dollar shitbox or not?
I'm sorry you got harassed, but I must ask: did your car get vandalized?
If you are this inconvenienced by driving a Tesla that puts me off from buying or renting one, since I wouldn't want to go through that. Makes me want to stay away from Tesla with what a hassle it is. I'd ask for another loaner personally, but more power to you for wanting to keep sticking with it.
Yeah plan to. It seems like a very scary car to be associated with in the current public climate. Brand has become radioactive and too ideological tied to political figures. Seems like anger is just slowly increasing over the past several weeks too.
How about not borrowing a Swasticar?
I think the reason most people vandalize secretly is so that they wont have to explain themselves at all. Generally speaking, they hope the vandalism speaks for them and don't particularly give a fuck if it dings some jerk's insurance. As for the golden rule, I think you've got that confused too: Most people who vandalize in this way are hoping to inspire others to do the same, so golden rule very much in play.
The difference is I would never even get in a Tesla. So yeah I'm treating others how I would like to be treated, if I was stupid enough to be driving a cybertruck.
If I would buy nazi shit I would love if someone shows my wrongdoing by devaluing it
I would just assume the owner did it, which is a pretty safe bet, so that's not vandalism.
Maybe it's a self acknowledgement like every other bumper sticker.
Driver just wants some Nazi cock
It's implied if you drive a Tesla, but some people don't have time for subtlety.
did it for the likes and karma!
That is an accurate form of journalism.
Absolutely! I mean look at that sad sack of shit on the sticker in the photo!
with "pathetic" he probably means the driver and the dude on the sticker, right?
I have a 6 year old Tesla. I wouldn't be mad if that was done to me.
Yes, but vandalism is awesome.
America is dead because truly awful people spent 100 thousand dollars on these junk vehicles to help finance its demise, and are still proudly driving it for all to see while feeling superior to everyone else. It is not vandalism, it is free speech.
They started selling the cybertruck in 2019. Things were an order of magnitude less crazy in the US back then.
Where did you get that???
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Cybertruck
First model year is 2024
Preorders/reservations started in 2019. Source is the same wiki page you linked..
And? Thats multiple years before they hit the streets, plenty of time to realize the mistake.
A Canadian example is people started putting pride flags next to “fuck trudeau” stickers
Carve it into the bumper next time like Aldo from Inglorious Bastards
The rich have yet again convinced the working class to attack each other
I know someone that buys a swasticar is still poor compared to the centibillionaires, but I can't help but think that if you can afford to burn more than 100k on a luxury vehicle, you're not exactly "with" the working class.
I draw a distinction between "rich" working professionals and such that can afford a 85K car, and giga rich.
Perhaps I diverge with Lemmy on this, but its OK to get rich. Being Elon Musk rich is not okay.
Nobody working class is driving a Cybertruck.
I met a guy that rented one for his birthday 🤭
This is not far off from the logic of acting like a cop is part of the working class. This isn't "working class attacking each other". This is literally a sticker with the richest dude on the world on it. This is shaming what is most likely some petty bourgeoisie. Or someone that thinks their class interest align with them.
I get your point but is someone who owns a $100k+ truck really in the working class?
A 100k auto loan with 20k down financed for 84 months is $1,1167/mo.
It isn't an intelligent purchase, but it is very much in the budget for a professional working class person.
Guess we would need to agree on what "working class" means.
People who earn their living primarily from working and earning a paycheck.
As opposed to the capital class, who earn their living primarily from interest on their invested capital.
So brain surgeons are working class, not upper class? Because they make half a million on salary?
Yes, brain surgeons are working class. They earn a lot because they actually produce a lot of value. If you suffer from a brain disease, getting surgery to fix it is probably one of the most valuable things you can get (depending on the severity, it will be the most valuable thing). Additionally, it requires a lot of skill.
They're upper class, which is part of the working class because they earn their money by their labor, aka working.
If they earn their money for simply owning things and collecting interest then they're not working class.
Yes, what the hell do you think the word "working" is doing there?
If you're work for a living, you're working class. Even if you get paid a big salary, you're still a person who works a job for it.
A brain surgeon makes money by working on brains and therefore is in the working class; the person that owns the hospital makes money by extracting rents from the brain surgeon and therefore is in the capitalist class.
Upper class and middle class don't necessarily correspond directly with those terms.
I see. That's not what I would have thought the term applied to. I would have figured more people who are hourly or perhaps low salary, maybe a manager at a fast food restaurant. At the rate quoted above, the payment is only a little less than my mortgage. I would not have put someone with that kind of disposable income into the working class.
You can label different sections of the working class but on the scale of history and societies the only real divisions in society is between the class people who trade their labor for money and the class of people who earn money simply by virtue of having money.
The poorest Walmart employee and the richest doctor have more in common than the doctor and a person of inherited wealth. You'll interact with doctors and engineers many times a year in your community. While you'll probably never be in the same room as a wealthy person.
Laws that protect labor, provide social safety nets, provide for education, security, etc all benefit the Walmart worker and doctor. But they're completely worthless to the people who own their own security, pay for their own education and never have to worry about starving to death if they're unable to work.
We're seeing the wealthy taking control and deciding that they can save money by simply choosing to not support working people. After all, what are we going to do? Stop working for them?
Yes I understand the concept. Not sure I agree with it. I am retired. By that definition, I am in the latter and I can tell you, I'm not flying around on private jets or forcing lower wages on people. I do feel rich because I have discarded the yoke of the people I worked to make richer, but that doesn't really mean I've joined them.
Others pointed this out but I wanted to put numbers on it for fun. Working class means you work for a living, doing some form of labor rather than being able to live and earn just off of your capital. However, someone could then try and argue that Musk for example "works" as CEO, so we need numbers.
The average cost of living in the US is apparently $61334.
The average return of investment in the stock market is roughly 10%.
That makes this part easy: you need roughly $613,340 in investments to no longer be working class in my book.
It's very frustrating to me. I bought a used Model 3 back in 2019 for like 35k. I'm not rich.
I know a guy who bought a Cybertruck. He makes around $140k a year which is better than most but still nowhere near what I would call "rich." Was it a stupid decision? Yeah. Does he support Trump or Musk personally? No. He saw the launch announcement, put in a reservation years ago, and went ahead with it when he got his chance because he was hyped about it for his own personal aesthetic reasons. That people think he's somehow to blame for Musk is stupid. That someone might damage his car, costing repairs he can't really afford because he spent it all on a stupid large car loan, but forcing him to pay Musk even more to get it repaired is so amazingly dumb that I can't actually comprehend the thought process.
Some people with Cybertrucks are probably a part of the problem. Some are just people who got hyped. But in this thread are people who unironically claim that buying a Cybertruck is supporting a Nazi while they themselves pay for Amazon Prime, use Gmail, own an Oculus, eat Nestle products, and buy gas at Exxon.
It just feels weird that this car is the line people draw. I guess because it's expensive, but when you look at how much some of those big luxury trucks cost you've almost certainly seen more expensive ones on the road more frequently than you've seen Cybertrucks.
To me the problem is that it's an expensive, oversized, poorly made vehicle designed by a Nazi who even at the time of announcement was expressing some pretty distasteful views.
Other older Tesla's I can give the benefit of the doubt to as they're some of the cheapest and at times most ubiquitous electric vehicles available, but the cyber truck is not cheap and it doesn't predate Elon's obvious slide into being a nazi
Thank you for having an actually good take on this, I'm blocking most of the people in this thread for their stupidity. My experience with Lemmy seems to improve the more people I block lol
What's wrong about vandalism? No, I am serious, people use vandalism as a proxy to name every action they do not like. Fuck this. Vandalism for me is equal as destruction of property. Is sticker a destruction? No. Is paint on sculpture of long dead bastard a vandalism? Still no.
No me it's the effort required to return something to its original state so i disagree with you on the paint on a statue.
Also a sticker could be vandalism if it's one of those fuckers they use for cheap price tags that Never really come off. If it peels off easily in one go than no I wouldn't call it vandalism.
So the police vandalize every single car that's broken down on the side of the highway?
This, except yes. Very obviously yes. Your feelings are making you stupid.
Responsible advertising I'd say
Yes, it's the best sort of vandalism.
It's funny either way
People are cool
That sticker probably leaves a permanent mark since there's no clearcoat on the steel. Stickers in general are a scourge on earth, slapping them on other people's property is vandalism.
well, that's all i needed to know. Time to vandalize some nazimobiles.
Swastikars
Yes. It is a cybertruck. Damaging something cheaply made and very expensive with the most tiny, mundane shit is kind of the point.
The keyword here is "people". Is someone who chooses to be or support a Nazi still entitled to be considered a "person"?
I vote NO.
Okay but we don't make such distinctions based on whether we are personally bothered. What the fuck. I know you people have the capacity for rational thought, but you are intentionally not using that capacity. Does it feel good? What are you getting out of it? Cuz it looks like you're grooming yourself.
Why do you care so much if a Nazi supporter/apologist is called such? Do you drive one of these or something?
Nah.
That's called reporting the news because the mainstream media won't.
Technically, yes.
In my mind, whether or not this person deserves it depends on when they bought the truck. If they ordered it long before Elmo began showing us how insane he really was, then they're just a bit of a douche. If they bought it since the salute, they deserve more than a sticker.
by the time the cybertruck was announced he was very publicly insane already.
also regardless of musk, this is a death trap that shouldn't be (and in normal countries isn't) allowed on the road at all. Just because the US law allows billionaires to kill children doesn't mean we should as well. a sticker is getting off easy.
no excuse for owning a cybertruck.
No, it’s a fucking sticker. Grow up.
That's entering sticker-bombing territory, which might be terrorism, it's got "bombing" in the name.
From what I remember, putting this on a painted surface is vandalism because it can ruin the paint topcoat. Putting it on glass is NOT vandalism because it can be removed without damage.
I'm not sure about stainless steel, because I thought the whole point was that it could be cleaned, so I guess it depends on if they want to admit it's a bad finishing material or not.
Not as political, but how about something like these?
Yes and I hope the owner does bother to remove the sticker.
I hadn't realised before that it's an anagram of "ELON MUSK TESLA".
You're only missing two I's, three C's, one Z, one K and have two L's, two E's, one T, one M, and one S left over.
I don't agree with blaming tesla owners, many of them bought their vehicle before Musk was very publicly a neo nazi.
Not the cybertruck tho.
cybertruck was announced 2019. presumably pre-orders opened then too. for a long time, you where legally not allowed to sell that thing (maybe still today - can't be bothered looking up tesla news). so there are for sure a lot of cybertruck owners, who bought it before he was a part of trump admin.
and even if you where allowed to sell it now - who would buy that pile of sheet metal?
Pre-orders were $1000 payment that was refundable. They absolutely could have cancelled and gotten their money back.
And lots did refuse to place their orders.
He was already full blown Nazi when the release happened. Anyone who bought one is complicit
All I'm saying is that lots of the people with reservations did not end up purchasing one. Just expanding on your assertion.
I'm agreeing with you as well. I'm saying if they didn't cancel when the truck dropped, that's on them. Anyone seen driving one can catch birds all day.
I wouldn't be mad.
Musk was publicly an asshole more than a decade ago, so this argument can go straight to hell
How was El'nazy ever not an absolutely super transparent pos I will never understand. At least since PayPal days.
Dunking on fascist-made car owners with homophobic bumper stickers... Stay classy
Liberals trying to not defend Nazis challenge impossible.
Like, do you think the insulting part of this is the cock sucking? Elon has a cock (presumably) and anyone (man, women, enby) is sucking it by owning a Cyber truck.
This is anti Nazi. Holy shit liberals need to get their priorities straight.
They are right in that it is homophobic, just like how it is ableist to call people retarded.
Would you call someone holding a female Nazi as a role model a Nazi pussy licker or is it specifically the cock sucking that is seen as the hurtful part?
When's the last time you explicitly called a woman a cocksucker? It's used as a homophobic jab like 99% of the time.
Y'all attacking Nazis by implying they suck cock, with the implication that that's shameful (and not just because the cock is attached to a Nazi, give me a break).
Honestly though, the most insulting part of your comment is calling me a fucking liberal. Ew
Maybe they aren't a liberal or a socialist but a secret third option
Socialism is when you checks notes call Nazis gay as a gotcha. Nah that seems like #resist lib slop, same tier as drumpfposting
Nazis can fuck off, and so can people who adopt their framing when tossing petty insults. They do enough evil you can point to directly
How am I acting like a liberal? You shouldn't use words you don't understand the meaning of
I'm calling you a liberal as in a radlib sjw type liberal. I thought that was really obvious because it's how you're acting. I'm not calling you a capital L Liberal. Yes, words can more than one meaning and can also be offensive or not offensive given the context. But I guess it's obvious you don't understand the meaning of words or any nuance to how they are used. I mean that's kind of how this whole conversation started.
All I'm saying is that if the Nazi part is the insulting part, just say that directly
... Unless you'd be cool with a bumper sticker on your car that just says "I suck cock", since as you've already established it isn't an insult
edit: conciseness in terminology
At the end of the day you're criticizing something that is meant to insult a Nazi. If you can understand the difference between a homophobic person puting a "I suck cock" sticker on a car and (let's say) a gay man putting a "Nazi Cocksucker" sticker on someone's car. You can also understand the nuance of any type of person puting the OPs sticker on someone's car. There is nuance and context that you are trying to remove to (1) criticize a sticker meant to insult a Nazi and (2) the use of cocksucker as an insult.
You're removing any of that context to hyper focus on something and pretend that nuance and context doesn't exist. Which is very very radlib of you.
The only person that you're defending in this situation that should actually be offended is a female or gay Nazi. So you're literally just defending the feelings of a Nazi. Unless you want to remove all context and nuance. Which is what you tried to do.
Despite the piece of shit Musk is, this is still someone's car. I don't know them personally or how they feel about the situation. Embarrassed, hopefully. I'd rather offer them the "bought this before I knew he was crazy" sticker. The antifascist energy should be directed somewhere other than someone's private vehicle. But where...
I bought a Tesla (not a cybertruck, gross) awhile back when fElon was in his "crazy but not obviously supporting Trump or a Nazi" phase. Now we're leaving the US because of his and Trump's bullshit, but we still need a car in the meantime. Moving is going to be so fucking expensive that we can't justify selling it, buying another car, then selling that car, so I'm just driving it in shame and dreading being harassed over it.
may I kindly suggest just putting a piece of electrical tape over the T insignia or perhaps an easily removable vinyl sticker indicating you don't support Nazis?
it's not your fault your car was made by a company owned by a Nazi... but people are understandably pretty fucking upset to have a Nazi running the country. caveat emptor.
Of course you may, but it's already done! I have the infamous "I bought this before we knew Elon was crazy" sticker. The car just feels tainted now.
You were free to refuse the Tesla and take a car that does not generate profit for a Nazi.
Liberals vandalizing and defacing property? And encouraging it?
Say it ain't so!
"Mostly peaceful protests"
Least I aint a nazi
Lol
Putting stickers on Nazi shit is the peaceful part. Wait for what happens next.
That part of the vehicle is now less likely to rust than the rest of it, so it's actually an upgrade?
This is dumb... if tomorrow I heard John Toyota was a child molester I wouldn't make it top priority to sell my car
The Cybertruck was released after Musk went crazy.
The Nazi salute took things to another level, I wouldn't assume the owner is on board with that. I'd say he was just a typical billionaire CEO level of crazy when the cybertruck came out
Typical billionaires don't call recuse workers pedophiles.
Buying a CyberTruck is the equivalent of digging up John DeLorean, filling his corpse with bags of cocaine, strapping him to the front of a DeLorean that's been modified to shoot sparks into the gas tank when a moisture sensor is triggered, and then drive said cocaine death-trap into schools and other public services.
This might be a slight exaggeration, but it's pretty much literally exactly that.
While your point might seem fair, you simply cannot buy that car as 'simply a car as any other' if you have at least half an eyeball
Sure, but having bad taste doesn't make one a Nazi either.
I feel like funding a Nazi is just as bad.
I feel the same way with people who use Amazon. You can't complain about what Bezos does with his money when you're actively supplying him with it.
You can't complain about what muskrat does with his money if you're buying his products.
That makes you part of the problem.
You're judging people retroactively by one purchase they made, likely before the Nazi business. I'd say you're part of the problem
Except I'm not the one funding the Nazi?
He was clearly a douchebag from the start. He didn't even try to hide it. He didn't even actually do anything but buy existing companies and pay smart people to make things with the wealth his parents accrued through basically slavery. He surrounded himself with enough yes men that he started to feel like a god which led to our current situation.
He was always a piece of shit. It's not retroactive.
Henry Ford was a piece of shit, but I still have a Fiesta. 🤷🏻♂️
Henry Ford has been dead for over half a century.
Elon is showing up at Alternative für Deutschland events and doing nazi salutes.
And also people did protest Ford's love of Hitler especially given that we were dumping war contracts on his lap.
Yup, and I have a '73 bug, but my buying it didn't support fascism like buying a cyber truck does/did.
Akio Toyoda
(Toyota is actually a name change, 80s yotas mix and match).
With his arbitrary firings, I’d hazard a guess that his actions have killed at least a kid or two.
Umm cobalt mines??
You’ll have to go slower. Would they know about cobalt? Or mining? Or anything that conservative media has never mentioned?
You don't need that many words to tell people you're a Nazi too.
Well, you're already a proven liar, ipso facto, shut the fuck up, Nazi.
So, how does Nazi cock taste?
If it wasn't a Nazi salute, then you should have no problem repeating it in front of other people, yeah?
Do it. Go do that exact same gesture at work tomorrow in front of your coworkers.
They did and got promoted to sergeant.
You're saying that the individual who is arguably most likened to Hitler in the entire planet accidentally threw a Nazi salute... twice? Get the fuck outta here.
Edit: liked into > likened to
So you went from "Nobody could possibly misinterpret it when you see the context!" to "He did it in the spur of the moment and that's why it looked awkward.".
So how long before we reach "Even if it was an intentional Nazi salute, I don't care anyway."?
You've got no balls, by the way. If you aren't willing to repeat EXACTLY what he did, then you are admitting that what he did is socially problematic and subject to misinterpretation. They key takeaway here is that despite the blowback he's still getting from it, Musk does not see anything problematic with it. That should tell you everything about who that gesture was meant for.
https://www.youtube.com/live/0BN-62AQT4Q?t=29801s
Still think it's an accident, dumbass?
Are you a Russian bot
Why did you write Тщ
It's amazing a dude can do back to back Nazi salutes and people on the Internet will still defend it because "he said something afterwards that lets me deny what I saw with my lying eyes"
What's next? The dude goes around waving a Nazi flag but later on Twitter he proclaims he's now a Hindu. So I guess you'd still believe him? Come on mate. You can do this.
It's a duck mate. You can believe your eyes. It's ok. You've been lied to for a really long time and it's hard to undo all that because it defines a lot of who you are as a person. I've been there mate. The first step can be from this though. He did a Nazi salute. You don't have to unravel the rest of your beliefs yet. Just start with admitting what we all saw with our eyes. He did it twice just to make sure you knew.
Tell me. What is the difference between the swastika or the salute? I'm gonna guess the main difference is you haven't read 100 reply guys trying to come up with any reason to deny he's a Nazi. Do you know who does that? Nazis. Nazis know that it's still not expectable to be a Nazi. So they will always try to get you to "not believe your lying eyes". While always doing dog whistles to signal to other Nazis. But this salute wasn't a dog whistle. It was a fucking mega phone.
Dude, that was a (neo)nazi salute without a single doubt. I'm from Germany. We learned about this shit a lot. History class is like 90% related to ww2. We can spot a fucking nazi salute from miles away. You disgusting nazi apologist, fascist pick.
Why would I? He keeps doing that shit! He's actively supporting the far right extremist AfD in germany and he's doing the same many other European countries. He's a fucking nazi prick. And people who downplay this are nazi apologists. Fuck off.
Because you played something down the way certain people won't acknowledge the holocaust. It's disgusting and extremely hurtful to people who grew up learning about the awful shit the Nazis did. Elon is a fucking Neonazi and he's the richest fucking man on the world. That's extremely dangerous. We're just lucky he's dumb as a fucking rock.
100% nazi
Yes. It absolutely is. If only there wasn't a video of this dude doing a salute back to back
https://youtu.be/joV-9FFoA3Q
On top of that "the future of civilization" is a dog whistle to the 14 words of the Nazis
You just sound like a Nazi apologist at this point.
Yet he's perfectly fine with people believing that it was? Only one type of person that wouldn't be tripping over themselves to make sure others didn't mistakenly think they were a Nazi... Take a wild guess who.
Then you're fucking stupid or arguing in bad faith.
Funny to see you bending over backwards to defend some asshole who wouldn't even take the time piss on you if you burst into flames riding in one of his pyrotechnic monstrosities
Bruh, it was a nazi salute. Get over it. He knew what he was doing and he accomplished exactly that. He made a gesture that people perceived as a nazi salute, because it was 99% the same as a nazi salute and mirrored exactly what these far-right psychos were already doing, and then he gave just enough plausible deniability to keep people guessing who were on the fence, like you. Take a stand and hold him accountable, because this is some nazi-Orwellian doublespeak you've fallen victim to.