Dems Reportedly Angry That Progressives Are Pushing Them to Act Like an Opposition Party.
House Democratic lawmakers reportedly used a closed-door meeting earlier this week to vent their frustrations with progressive advocacy groups that have been driving constituent calls and pressuring the party to act like a genuine opposition force in the face of the Trump administration's authoritarian assault on federal agencies and key programs.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/democrats-progressive-groupsOpen linkView original on ponder.cat1101
Comments356
"Forcing recorded votes is possible. Frequent quorum calls are possible. A wide variety of dilatory motions are possible. In short, harassing the majority is possible. If they think it's a bad idea, say so. If they say it's not possible, they're lying."
I like how politicians voting is considered a time out. It's their job, jfc.
"But if our votes are recorded, our
voterscorporate donors will know we voted against them!"Right? This is about providing political cover to centrists who take money from the same oligarchs as conservatives. They just want to pretend they are on our side.
Hay man, they're on our side! When it hardly matters.
Remember all the times people said "Push for bills so when Republicans vote no it's on the record for election season?".
As if Republicans can see anything but the Republican next to the first person's name in a ballot.
They actually can't force votes though, so we'd be getting the same votes and we already knew whenever Republicans stepped out from the ranks such as the Hegseth confirmation where 3 of them abstained but he got appointed anyways. Recorded Votes doesn't stop the Trump admin. The Dems are effectively powerless without 13 Ind + Gop to impeach and remove him or his cabinet members or corrupt federal judges.
Dems have plenty of options available even as a minority party, they just aren't doing so.
Leeja is cool but her opinion was that they're running their tiktok accounts wrong and they were born in the wrong year.
What specifically would YOU do to stop what the Trump admin is doing?
Lmao, I can't believe that's what you got from the video. That was not remotely her point. Her entire point is that the Democrats should be using everything within their polical power to obstruct and delay everything the Trump Admin is trying to do. She gave multiple examples of exactly how they can do that. That's the bare minimum the Democratic Party should be doing. I already participate in local community organizations.
What is it YOU think is in their political power? Specifically.
People didn't vote dems into power and that is why we are in the situation we have now.
Here's an entire comprehensive list. Which was, again, discussed in Leeja Miller's video...
https://indivisible.org/resource/explainer-how-senate-democrats-can-delay-defy-trumps-agenda-procedural-hardball
The Democrats are responsible for losing this election to an unpopular fascist by failing to represent the demands that the majority of their constituents were demanding. Start demanding more from your representatives.
You have incredible patience.
So you want them to do the things they're already doing to delay votes that will happen in short matter regardless of what they do?
Reminder that only simple majority of 51 breaks filibuster for cabinet and judge confirmation hearings since 2013 and 2017 respectively. The DNC stalled for 30 hours because they were allowed to by the GOP, and the hearing still went through as planned. Nothing can stop this.
It sure is neat how powerless the minority has suddenly become.
Democrats have had less than 50 for over a decade, nothing sudden about it.
Simultaneously,
They just want money and plausible deniability. Any one of these Dems can just be bought like a repub
Wow I can't believe those fake congresspersons on that parody news site would say that. Thank you for bringing this into real political discussions. /s
Vote a little harder next time it'll save us
It would have saved us, yeah.
I feel bad for if you truly believe that. At best we'd get democrats kicking the can for 4 years, making 0 progress, then trump or another ghoul gets elected in 2028 and all this still happens
My idea of voting harder is more than 50 Dems, which hasn't happened in many years, then they could consider taking the Filibuster off for a while.
Ideally 60 Dems, enough to pass all of their platform without being filibustered and without giving Republicans a chance to fight back.
We haven't even tried that but everybody in here is so ready to blame Dems for not being in charge.
"we've tried nothing and we're all out ideas"
Progressives need to start their own party. The establishment DNC is so entrenched with big donors and lobbyists that it is unable to serve the people. Their balancing act of appeasing both the right and the left is just serving to alienate everyone because the final policies get so diluted. They have become too stuck in the quagmire of their own doing. I don’t see the DNC being able to change any time soon and through their inaction, will only enable more devastation of the country.
The new Progressive party should align with the DNC as the opposition during this administration but simultaneously run more like minded candidates in the next elections with their own separate fundraising campaigns. That’s the only hope I have for meaningful change to happen.
There's a free app called 5 calls. It helps you to call your representative with a script. Progressives need to get on this. I'm aware it's a pain, but the script makes it a lot easier especially when you get an answering machine instead of a person.
It's rather naive to think that phone calls will change anyone's mind in office. Money speaks, not phone calls.
It's rather naive to throw out centuries of political theory because you can't be bothered to write / call / show up.
https://act.represent.us/sign/does-calling-congress-really-work
In fact the only thing they pay attention to more than calls is people physically showing to their offices.
Do you have any data that calls, emails, letters have any consistent effectiveness? I think a lot of us feel like we are handed these mechanisms as a way for us to feel catharsis (AKA shut us up) and an illusion of participation while our inputs are promptly tossed into the trash.
Its an unpaid intern receiving these messages in whatever way they are sent, right. And how do I compete with a check being sent from a corporation or AIPAC? Lobbying is bribing. We're sending emails and making phone calls.
Following centuries of political theory have led us to this point.
Not really. The only thing they pay attention to is the amount on the check.
If calling really changed things, I'd be getting emails from TheDemocrats asking people to jump on a phone bank. All they are asking from me is "More Money to fight Donald Trump!"
Do you not get those texts? I would understand if you blocked them but they are definitely being sent.
Not anymore.... I blocked them after the 15th begging for "$50 dollars is all we need to defeat Trump!" on November 10th...
The problem is you get the NDP/Liberal vs. Conservative effect when you do this. If you have 30% of the population vote for your Leftie, and 30% vote for the other Leftie, in a given congressional district, the Republican can win with 31%, despite 60% voting against the Republican. We need RCV before we can do this, and people need to understand that they MUST put the other party as choice 2 or we are back to ending up with a Republican.
This is why a new party needs to be built from the ground up, starting with local races that are uncontested or use ranked choice voting already.
If Democrats are so scared of splitting the vote, they don't need to run a candidate. It's not like they're particularly interested in winning anyway.
That is indeed a problem that needs to be resolved, and likely through ranked choice voting. But as a country, we tend to focus too much on the presidential election. Change will have to start in the congressional elections - both at federal and state levels. The issue of votes splitting will be a lesser issue in these elections except in a few large districts. That will also be where smaller fundraising campaigns would go further.
Change starts at the dog catcher. That's how the maga morons did it. They ran for every single down ballot race, all the way to the bottom.
Hell, in my city, the local Dem committee helped the MAGA morons, by running against their own primary winner (A socialist). They were even dual dropping lit for the Chosen One they had in mind, plus the sheriff who is a MAGA nutter.
Jesus tapdancing Christ. I swear it's like the Dems as an organization want to lose. I'm only on their side to pull left. The second we can pull left to neoliberalism instead of maga nutters I swear I'm going to do everything in my power to volunteer to get them fucking tossed for the further left and less authoritarian.
The thing you're missing is that you'll tap into a whole new category of voters that have never had anyone to vote for before.
Ding. Both major parties have abandoned the working class, and a whole lot of people have given up on the system as a whole. Give a real choice that has a chance and people will turn up. But that means the politics-as-sports folks need to hang up their team colors, and that's only going to happen by spreading class consciousness. No war but class war.
I fail to see your point. That sounds like you have a 61 majority for the Republicans. The "Liberals" are aiding the Republicans getting power, as the article points out.
Also the Democrats are a pink washed far right party, by standards outsidr the US.
They just need to put the Trump party last (or whatever the shittiest party is at the time)... They can put anyone they want 2nd
100% agreed, it’s time for a new party. Republican-lite is killing our nation.
Tell this to Bernie and other progressives. Seriously, if we call and email them, they might decide they even enough support to do such a thing.
The Democratic party is dead.
The Democratic party has just officially morphed into the Republican party of 30 years ago. They trotted out the Cheney's ffs.
Not like it matters. We're not voting our way out of this situation, the fascists won't let anyone take power back now that they have it. It's revolution or a technofeudal hellscape.
The Dems will do it again too. They'll find an older grandfatherly type in the model of Reagan to run as a candidate, and he'll talk about compromise, not progressive causes. They'll toss in some vague progressive light stuff that they will promptly shitcan once they win.
The DNC leadership are elected by people who are elected by us. Almost no one votes in those elections... Probably no one even knows they exist. But a well timed strategy of getting like 50 progressives to show up to each election and vote for progressive leadership is all it would take to replace every liberal in the party leadership with progressives... No reason to leave 2 conservative parties intact
"In 2025, the DNC Chair election will be held on February 1. The chair will be elected by the 448 active National Committee members, consisting of 200 elected members from state parties, as well as elected officials, constituency representatives, and at-large members."
https://indivisible.org/resource/dnc-chair-race-explained
so a 200 person minority of the voters are people elected .. somehow.... (how do pick which state people get a votes) presumably in a way that forwards the publics wishes, not that they ever do that-- and the other 248 are dnc insiders. I dont see how progressives can maneuver to a win with those constraints.
Yeah... It would take some serious organizing... Probably need a serious org to take it on
So like, how do we do that? How do I help organize that?
I'd start by looking up your local Dems party. Most towns and counties have their own Dem party who's job it is to get Dems elected locally. They themselves are elected by (registered) Dems in that town or county. They'll know who runs your state party (also elected by Dems in your state), and who from your state gets to vote for DNC (national) leadership. They'll also probably know how many people show up for these elections (it's usually like 10 people!) Then it's just a matter of organizing enough progressives to take over these local party positions and then take over the DNC... but, the good news is, progressives just took over the party leadership! At least the new Chair is relatively progressive, and was supported by Our Revolution.
On the one hand, it's super annoying that a small group of people makes all the decisions, but on the other hand, they are the people who show up month after month. You'll probably need to show up too, get to know who is progressive and who's a shill. Then make moves to replace the shills with progressives.
In Nashua, NH (the second biggest "city" in NH) we were able to completely replace the city Dems leadership with only 50 progressives showing up to vote
What we really need is a national org like Our Revolution or Move On or whoever, to make a concerted effort to plan out the takeover of every town/county/state Dems in every state. Each state should have a paid director plus staff who can map out all the leadership of all the smaller Dems parties in that state, rally progressive voters, and take the state party for progressives, town by town and then the state party all together.
Can you clarify, who are you talking about?
The DNC Chair, vice chair, treasurer, etc
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_National_Committee#Current_leadership
Aren't there already other progressive parties? Look how they're doing.
Anecdotal, but our chapter of the DSA (not radical enough for me, but it's what I've got around me) is growing rapidly. New member orientation has been standing-room-only since the election.
You should check out the Axios article they cite before you write them all off. The supposed "gripefest" is just Dems talking about how they're recieving hundreds if not thousands of phone calls a day.
The US needs a left-wing Party.
This has been half a century of Fascists vs neoliberals, center-right "free to be LGBTQ as you die of poverty in the gutter" vs so far right we're building Concentration camps.
Unfortunately our people have been poorly educated by design as well as brainwashed into believing profit comes before humanity. " Herp derp Anything less is socialism and therefore evil!"
This is only "freedom" for the rich to trample the poor. Freedom without social responsibility is a rampage. We need revolution, revolution that does far more to Wall Street than merely occupy it , or we need to accept living in hell until the capitalists destroy the climate enough to destroy civilization all together.
Don't worry, just a few more decades of the same at most for nature to do what we're failing to. This will end within a human lifespan, the choice is if it will be with or without a habitable planet for Humans.
This isnt the usual ebbs and flows of history, There is a very literal deadline of humanity's own greedy making.
Support psl
Let’s start a new party called the Modern Future party.
Yeah I have completely lost faith in the Democratic Party. Seems like they don’t mind Trump because he benefits their wallet.
Democrats biggest donors are wealthy Republicans.
Hakeem Jeffries is one of the biggest sellouts. Him climbing the DNC ladder is a sign that Democrats will do yet another 2016 in 2028.
AIPAC as well if trump supporting Israel publicly they will never replace. And if both party turn out to be "end of life" lunatic who want kingdom of Israel then they will never change or push against a President who is pushing for the same goal even though he clearly doesn't believe in anything.
That's why its important to introduce Israel as a political liability for the Democrats.
Demonstrate that they lose elections because of their support for Israel.
Jeffries is the main backer for Eric Adams who just got a pardon from Trump under the request that he aids in the mass deportations and likely he will.
Oh Democrats. Only annoyed they ever had to pretend to care about people.
So the Republicans can act like an opposition party but they can't? Have they had their heads buried since the beginning of Obama's term? Or is this their snide way of confirming complicity?
The rich want to end democracy. They dont want to stop Muskler.
And almost everyone in Congress and the Senate is rich.
I'm definitely using Muskler from now on. That's good
I said this in /r/law and was told that my level of cynicism is unrealistic and I'm arguing in bad faith
Welcome to Lemmy where, in theory, you have much more control over who censors your opinions!
The democrats were this ineffective during the GWB era as well. Then after America gets sick of Republicans because their policy is terrible and predictably causes calamities of varying magnitudes, only the people who didn't go along for the ride with the Republicans thrive politically afterwards.
For instance, one of Obama's main draws in the 2008 primaries was the dude wasn't drawn into being pro-Iraq invasion.
The feeble wimps will all be seen as such if this era ever ends, and the public will turn to whomever consistently opposed the petard throwing before it hoists the one who threw it.
This should be the eye opener to the left that the DNC is right wing. They let the republicans do whatever they want because they want the same thing. They only pretend not to so they can scam for donations.
Democrats are officially a dead party.
That's all the careers care about.
If only the fought as hard as they spam & grift
It really pisses me off that the ONLY outreach I saw were requests for money. Hundreds of them (many may have been scams, not sure).
The Democratic Party doesn't get paid to win elections.
It gets paid to run campaigns.
The Republicans have decided that that is unreliable and have simply gone with open corruption.
100% this.
Louder for the folks in the back, please.
They have to raise money so they can spend money to raise money. Then they've raised twice as much money even though they only have half of it.
The headline almost reads like an Onion article.
Most of them do nowadays.
There was an onion headline recently that read 'the democrats will oppose the republicans the moment it is politically convenient to do so'. That was an actual onion headline...
Better get fucking used to it bluedogs.
you need electoral reform so you can fuck the democrats right off
They will never let that happen, only state initiatives/props would work, and my state's governor vetoed a bill to enable cities and countries non-FPTP voting
The tea party, however, turned out to be an entirely artificial astroturfed "movement" that got its funding from the Koch brothers. They only came to exist because they were deemed a potentially profitable investment to the one percent. Same goes for Kerry getting "swiftboated". It was always about money.
People forget that the "tea" in "tea party" stands for Taxed Enough Already
some were! The rest were useful idiots--just totally unwitting dupes who had no idea who they were REALLY working for. The groups that handled transportation and logistics took "donations" as "non-profit" organizations but the Koch brothers absolutely did appoint individuals to set it up on their behalf AND provided basically all of the funding. The organizers themselves or the people feeding instructions to them were either class traitors if they knew the resources were coming from one source OR they weren't even legitimate members of the working class in the first place but only pretended to be so as to blend in with their marks.
I dont think we want to brand off anything related to tea. Lets call it the people's party.
Nah that name gives off Democratic People's Republic of Korea/People's Republic of China vibes.
ok, how about the anti-fascist party. We'll call it antifi.
you wish
The left won't big-tent: if you aren't perfect and addressing their issue du jour, well, good luck. I don't know how you make a progressive party if there is no ability to prioritize.
And by the way I get it, if I wasn't allowed to exist, I would sure as shit want my issue at the front of the line too.
The left will happily big-tent to a point, but we're not about to include people who directly attack the party platform, and we need to throw out those shits when we find them-- the liebermans, bidens, sinemas, and fettermans. We need to get back to having a party platform, which the current democratic party doesnt really. We also cant belly up to AIPACs udder like the other parties did or we'll be right back where we started.
I had such high hopes for Fetterman. He seemed like the closest thing to putting myself in the Senate. Every article I've seen about him since then just makes me a little more wrong. Still one hundred times better than Dr. OZ though, so no regrets, just disappointment.
I like to think Fetterman's stroke had something to do with neutering him. Whether or not that's the reason for his collaboration.
lol
Yeah I don't think that's as true as you'd like to think. It's not even about accepting outsiders, it's purely about agreeing what issue to tackle first. Seeems to me there's a really strong vibe of "I'm in if it's my issue" and protesting "what about my issue?!" when it's not. No concept of eating one bite at a time even though that's how the work gets done.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I feel like slow iteration has never worked. We've been stuck in the same politics for maybe 30 years. And the DNC dems seem like they arent interested in making anything better, just in winning. They barely bother to make a platform anymore. Its like an afterthought.
The only platform is "we follow the rules and the procedures" and that's all we got. I would love to see a full progressive agenda, but the first step is, in my opinion, getting money out of politics or it will take a long time to break Republican control and an even longer time to push out the neoliberal old guard on the left. Then you have to fight this fractionation problem. With no ranked choice, the same old neoliberal is probably going to win the primary between the women's rights advocate, the gay rights activist, the pro Palestine anti war ambassador, and so on. I'm also against slow iteration, and this is why it isn't working. You can't just say the equivalent opposite of "guns, Jesus, and trump!" (whatever that is) and win a progressive left race.
This might hold water if Democrats would quit working in the wrong direction on those issues while they're tackling one thing at a time.
Democrats supported genocide. Democrats ran anti-trans hate in their own ads. Democrats adopted Republican border policy.
Also, what one thing were they working on during this time?
They didn't. As I'm sure you know. The only unifying thing was "not trump" and "punish trump for doing loudly what others had done quietly".
But. What are D voters asking for? Is it any wonder the reps aren't unified if we aren't either? Of for and by the people doesn't really work if we all spend our days asking Lemmy how to avoid politics and watching ASMR videos. Or LETTING TRUMP GET INTO OFFICE because of protest no votes against genocide thinking you're some kind of fucking hero.
Everybody that allowed trump for any reason deserves to get a little bit fucked by the admin. We gotta do better, and this should make it clear to everyone that there. are. consequences.
And they either expected that to work or didn't care if it did.
They have made that clear. They want the Democrats to quit being useless. They want the Democrats to stop selling us all out under the pretext of being polite to people that want us dead in camps.
Luckily, if the world survives Trump the Democrats won't matter anymore because America won't matter. The rest of the world was pretty pissed off at the USA before, but still allowed America to keep its leverage because challenging it would be too much effort. Trump, however, is actively destroying that leverage through his trade wars and his cancelling of foreign aid at the same time that he's stripping his own government of its ability to function through his purges.
The only pillar of American influence that Trump isn't destroying directly is the country's media exports, and they were already in the process of collapsing before Trump was re-elected.
You got your high position in the world in the first place due to the fact that you were the only major power left standing after the world wars. Those circumstances won't happen again (well, world wars might, but not ones that leave the USA unscathed.)
I don't think Trump nor President Musk understand how much power the US weilds, just purely on foreign aid. By gutting all of it, we removed a large portion of the US's foreign power (Which, IMO, is a pretty good result).
The US has been going all-in on hard power while soft power declines. There's a lot of rich individuals who benefit from military contracts but don't care as much about actually maintaining the empire. The big risk is that Americans are going to recognize this disparity and start WWIII in an effort to leverage the one area that the US has an advantage to retain hegemony.
A big military is an expensive military, and if the American economy collapses it'll be hard to maintain that military.
Sure, but it can still cause a lot of destruction in the meantime if it decides to go out with a bang.
Same foreign policy, same bullying strategy, but now they are: 1) public about it, 2) Targeting countries that help them being who they are for the last 70 years.
That's great for the rest of the world, be we still have to deal with this mess somehow.
Or... Just act at all....
The party is functionally dead. If they don’t come out with absolute opposition we will be stuck with a single party for the rest of our lives.
This is sadly the truth.
When they win elections, they refuse to use power to help people, but instead blame Repub obstruction. When they lose they wag fingers, but mostly just go along with Repubs (ie, confirmations) and they FUNDRAISE. Then they use that funding to defeat left dems in primaries.
Primary every democrat.
If they even run primaries....
Primary every republican.
Other Republicans already did that over the last 20 years, that's how we got here.
If you want the Democratic party to shift left primarying weak moderates is how you do it.
The party actively protects moderate incumbents from any challenger to their left.
Just another thing the Republican base is better at than the Dem base I guess, oh well.
The difference here is that the Tea Party had funding, and picked up more funding from some previous GOP donors who wanted a more extreme party. There's no funding for leftism in the U.S., and any current DNC donors aren't likely to ever switch to funding it.
I agreed with all of that. If only we had our own shadowy groups of billionaires to fund us like the GOP constantly claims the left does.
This.
Any of the ones who are upset about Progressives pushing them to act like an opposition party needs to be primaried and kicked out, if they can't be convinced. We need more primary challengers to actually change the party, like the republicans have and continue to do.
They will get rid of primaries. They already did it last year
Last year they didn't really have presidential primaries because of an Incumbent, something both parties do all the time. But there were still Congressional primaries. And local primaries. Saying they'll get rid of primaries when there was a reason to not have a presidential one, even if you disagree with that reason, is very much misunderstanding how primaries work.
I mean, they threw it out and nominated whoever they wanted. There WAS a primary-- Harris wasn't in it. RFK was making Super Bowl ads for it
With all the anger over the Gaza situation, they waited until the last possible moment and foisted her on us so that there'd be no time force debate
Yes and that was shit and they should have figured out a way to do some kind of primary. But that doesn't mean there won't be a real primary in 2028 or that there won't be congressional primaries in 2026, which the congressional ones was what I was talking about. The only thing that would guarantee not having primaries is an official Dictatorship being created and the dissolution of congress and Trump being declared King or saying there will be no more elections.
They will do it again. One of the few things democrats actually do is make excuses.
They can do that for the president because of how that's set up in the constitution. The states control how congress is elected, though.
Now I'm not saying that the Republican Party is a blatantly fascistic organization designed to re-concentrate all wealth and power into the hands of an aging white billionaire elite afraid of losing their power and want to "scorch the Earth" in revenge for the fact that they and their very specific view of "how things should be" can not last forever
And that the Democrats are not only complacent, but are actively in on the plan and intentionally aiding this grift by pretending to be an alternative choice of leadership that seeks to prevent this from happening, and doing the bare minimum to keep up that illusion to prevent real opposition from showing up.
Part of that plan is to get people to join up with the Democratic Party to resist the Republicans and steer them away from or at least discourage them from doing anything that would actually stop the Great Ominous Plan....
The reason this is so effective is because due to the way America's Electoral System is, anything outside of the R's or D's is entirely unelectable no matter how many people vote.
Though this also means that if the Democrats ever lost control of their party to people who actually want to do something, it would threaten to destroy the Republican Party, and prevent anything like it from rearing its ugly head again. As it would become as demonized as the Nazi Party is in Germany.
But let's just say that that was exactly the case....
What would the D's and R's be doing differently?
This is where I sit. Either the Dems are controlled opposition, or they're actually this incompetent. Does it matter? Do you even need to get conspiratorial? No, they're unqualified and should be replaced.
You're about to find out.
So they are silently just watching when Murica burns to the ground.
They did rally themselves last month to push hard for tougher laws going against illegal video streaming websites. Netflix or someone in the entertainment industry cut them a check, I imagine.
"We could push for laws to make Nazi shit more illegal... Stop Musk... Maybe try to catch Trump... Nah, piracy is the most pressing issue right now! The camps need more workers for Trump!"
Holding the only buckets that could hold water and go "I've done all I could, I'm gonna keep pushing for more buckets!" while the buckets that can be used are filled with gasoline by Republicans.
Constituent pressure? How frustrating!
They didn't seem all that frustrated in the Axios article which is the source of all of the information in this article, although I'm sure thousands of phone calls a day would get old fast.
mutes the line
“There are a lot of good billionaires out there that have been with Democrats, who share our values, and we will take their money. But we’re not taking money from those bad billionaires.” - New DNC head
It's a good thing we can all agree on what the definition of good and bad is, and how its applied in our society right?
Let me stop you right there pal. There is no such thing.
No, no, a good billionaire is a dead billionaire.
But then they're not a billionaire anymore.
They might even have been a multi billionaire with multiple heirs so now you've just more billionaires!
Nah.
Seize their means and make them work a minimum wage job.
The time for civilized resolution to this problem has come and gone. Billionaires decided they want to live in a "might makes right" world. Fine by me. We'll just have to show them what that looks like when the teams are split 120,000 to 1.
It's an oxymoron like Jumbo Shrimp. If you were "good", you wouldn't BE a billionaire.
I'm telling you. The DNC is a sunk cost. You'll keep contributing to it thinking is valuable but when it's time to cash in they've already cashed out. At least the RNC spends it's political capital, mostly on shitty culture war shit, but they don't let it disintegrate into nothing.
If I could teach the DNC two words to use against the opposition it would be, "so what?" I mean, they use it on their constitutes all the time so it should be nothing new.
Majority of dems are literally just there for a pay check, and now they have to work for it?! Oh no.. Anyway..
Hey! They're not just there for a pay check! It's also the legal insider trading and other benefits
This tracks.
If they're so pissed about it, the progressives should just pack up and form a new party or join the WFP
Yeah it's a clever lie that's perpetuated that says progressives have no where to go if they try to break from the Democrats. But secretly a more progressive platform would actually draw over a lot of disaffected libertarians and lite conservatives who only vote conservative because they've been convinced that they should only vote in opposition to Democrats instead of in favor of anything.
from my experience with some libertarian 2a people I'd agree with this. I was surprised how indifferent (good) they were about minorities and trans people considering how they vote. honestly having a pro-drug, pro-gun* platform would win a huge chunk of them. and both of those would also be good for oppressed minorities (imo).
actually sitting here thinking about it do we have any figures on how much tax money gets pumped into prison systems that rely on drug enforcement to fill? not to mention the military industrial complex. cuz I know leftists like to riff on libertarians about "I don't understand how taxes work" but there's a lot of tax money going to things I don't agree with either.
*more like "sex positive" in the sense of education and safety and not shaming people who partake. not whatever the NRA is doing.
I mean, lots of "libertarians" are frothing at the mouth to defund our military but agree that the government should at least subsidize healthcare and education with some of those funds. The terms we have are loosey-goosey and most people are incoherent policy to policy. We've just been sorted into groups by a century of two-party propaganda.
I've always said if Democrats just shut the fuck up about guns or God forbid even walk back a teensy but, they would have no problem winning. Plenty of single issue voters vote red because of successful propaganda. How the hell anybody thinks anyone is coming for their buns is beyond me, I always ask for an explanation of who and how their guns will be taken from them. Never a coherent answer.
My fiance said she's coming for my buns tonight
Nice. Happy Valentine's Day!
Lucky guy!
Gun nuts won't buy it. The base will. Moving to the right has hit a wall and anyone who suggests it just likes moving to the right.
Laying off the gun issue doesn't have to be a move to the right, plenty of leftists own guns. I'm just saying they should clearly state that they aren't coming for anyone's guns
But it will be.
You expect gun nuts to buy that?
Why do you have to jump right to the extreme? If you're looking for useful discourse, immediately shutting down what you seem to agree would be a good idea isn't helpful. I know plenty of gun nuts that would absolutely drop the hate of the Republicans if they knew their hobby was secured. It's easy to do simply because NOBODY IS ACTUALLY GOING TO COME FOR ANYBODY'S GUNS. Who's going to do it, cops? The guys that love guns? The military? It's just a lack of critical thinking and a little bit of reassurance might go a long way.
It's not a lie when one party is fascist. Trying to split just ensures Nazi rule like IT JUST FICKING DID
one party is more fascist
Democrats suck the fattest corporate dick, lovingly, and laugh at the poor fighting amongst themselves, but it's not good to dilute such a serious label as fascist with something you don't like.
Nothing is 'diluted' about that term. Being complicit in genocide, extreme violence and prosecution simply for protesting it. Putting kids in cages, imperialism, regime change, warmongering, and plenty more. They are fascist, they're just too full of themselves to admit it. It's not good to negate these serious facts just because you don't like it.
Your final little retort there mocking me is the most childish thing I've read on the internet in a little bit. You can compare a mountain to a molehill if you like but I think we have bigger problems to worry about.
What solution do you propose to not working with the Democrats right now? Splitting the party and forming a progressive party hoping for scraps from the right that just want guns AND weed and don't care about trans folks? What's your plan besides being angry at Corporate Democrats? Have you donated to any of our more progressive Representatives?
Nobody needs to split anything or work with them. 3rd parties already exist, even if they get scammed and sabotaged by your beloved party. "donated to any of our more progressive Representatives" LOL let me know who these 'progressives' are. BTW I'm European, not from your uniparty pseudo democracy and therefore can think outside the box. Your county's politics are ridiculous and embarrassing. I'm really happy you got Trump. Him destroying your country is the best thing that could happen for the world.
There is only one party and its fascist. They're not the same because they're just as bad. They're the same because they're on the same team.
haven't you heard?
everyone and everything that isn't the democrats is russian psy ops...
If you want the Democrats to fight more effectively against Trump, by running on a better platform and listening to the active voter base, so the country is safe for at least 4 more years and maybe arrest Trump, you are actually:
It's mentally draining that I am on the side of the Democrats winning, because I know I would have prefered Harris to Trump every single day. Despite her record of trans rights and gaza, because she could have been pushed forward by learning from mistakes and not having her brains be mush like Trump and Biden.
And because I wanted her to win by publicly expressing the things documented in her campaign's website? I'm somehow wanting Trump to win despite being a disabled queer.
I just don't get how so many liberals will see me go "Harris should advocate for this thing that would be good, she said she wants it in the past" and then read that as "I hate her because she's a Democrat woman, I also love to eat shit of out Trump's asshole and claim it's owning the libs."
Never once have I ever praised Trump unironically, I can could count on two fingers things I am neutral towards, (Backing out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership and getting rid of the Penny) and that's it, everything else he has made my life worse on the Federal level, and helped some of my friends die from COVID.
I just got to wonder if the people who constantly think this are just angry that Trump got a loyal unquestioning fanbase, and want a piece of the media-manipulated voter base for themselves.
Yes, because they think that's how he won since they ignore everything Trump and downtrodden people say on the premise that they are dumb and valid to be ignored.
There isn't a recognition of changing to meet people suffering to show empathy but a thought that if they just had enough power first they could fix whatever is really wrong cause it must be something other than what people are complaining about.
They want the power without purpose which isn't a winning strategy compared to explaining what you intend to do with power for people who feel powerless.
That's why they've earned the name Blue MAGA. They're just as hateful, just as interested in Yes Men and making sure people submit to their authority unquestioningly. They want Fascism-Lite, they just want it to be "their guy" in charge.
It blows my mind that people criticize the GOP for being so tribalistic, not realizing a majority of the DNC is exactly the same.
And then they get mad when we call them that, and say we actually hate America like MAGA dipshits.
No no, it's the Chinese this week. +10 sosjal credits Xi bucks for your comment commmie!
Everyone and everything to the left of Netanyahu's wing of the Democratic Party.
what progressives would want to be in a disgusting right wing party?
Working Families Party isn't right wing.
Don't know much about them but from things like this: https://medium.com/@bradlander/vote-for-harris-walz-on-the-working-families-party-line-2cad53ac4643 Looks like controled opposition to steal votes from real left parties. Much like AOC and other fake 'progressives'. When they still endorse the genocider and billionaires parties they can go to hell. There are genuine 3rd parties with awesome socialist cplatforms not this garbage.
I am only donating to AOC until she and her fellow progressives gain a larger voice in the direction of the party. I've unsubbed from a lot of Democratic lists, too.
I advise all to do the same (as she can allocate these money to elsewhere if she wishes), while also contacting the DNC at https://democrats.org/
Here's a thought instead of blowing your money supporting candidates that already have access to massive amounts of cash, donate it to the Trevor project, planned parenthood or literally any nonprofit.
OR here's a thought — now hear me out — you don't because those charitable donations are a treatment of a symptomatic issue reflective of failed government policy to begin with. So if you really want to address the root cause and actually reshape the party from a top-down approach, then I encourage you follow my strategy.
Or you know, you can donate to both.
This is a pretty good observation. If you want to help the party, give money to people like AOC and tell her to give it to the party.
Great point, I agree with you.
The party leadership needs to step down.
If certain Dems aren't going to do anything constructive, then they need to get out of the damn way and put people like AOC in charge.
Can we all collectively elect AOC to represent all elected democrats in the House? She'd get, like, 215 votes on every bill.
I know a person can hold only one position at a time; it was just a funny thought.
AOC is a clown. A preferable clown, but a clown non the less. Why don't we elect some intelligent, qualified and competent.
Can you elaborate? She had made some inflammatory comments in the past but in the past few months she seems to be the poster child of maturity and determination.
One might call them a bad faith actor.
Everyone who disagrees with you is a shill. Lol. Go back to Reddit.
Ironic
I disagree with calling her a clown, but I do worry that it would be hard to get the american populace behind her as that is not an uncommon opinion. A large part of it is likely based on her gender and age, if she was a 60-year old white man with the same ideas, we likely wouldn't have this problem.
"Kamala lost because she's a woman of color!" was always a pretext for shutting out AOC.
Kamala didn't lose because she's a woman of color. She lost because she's a terrible candidate. Dems threw the election by putting her forward.
There might be some advantage in electability advantage for old white guys but the outcome doesn't really seem worth the effort.
AOC would certainly have a bunch of biases to overcome but from everything I can see, she would be a great leader. She seems to have a solid understanding of many spheres including economics, international relations, people, politics, marketing and more. She also seems to prioritize the good of the people over her own power or pocketbook.
She might be harder to get in but it's absurd to dismiss her as a clown.
Is that what maturity looks like? Lol.
She's been wildly ineffective, but I'm sure the Dem circle jerk here will tell me to get with the party line. She exists so Republicans can say, "See! They have a lunatic like MTG, too!". She exists so they can have sound bites for Fox news. She lacks an understanding of how to gain and wield power and that's a non negotiable part of her job. She would rather put on a hysterical display than do what would make her effective at her job. She is an influencer more than she is a politician and that's why she resonates with the TikTok generation.
Keep sending Dems money if you want. I'm done after they couldn't even close Kamala. No real primaries is over a decade and I was still trying to help them. I'm done. The Dems are complicit. They're not the same because they're just as bad, they're the same because they're on the same team. Democrats have been nothing but controlled opposition for a long time.
Like who?
The people pressuring Schumer andJeffries are:
Our Revolution tries too
https://ourrevolution.com/
Let me fix your headline "Sitting incumbents too comfortable to do their jobs annoyed that they are being pushed to do their jobs."
Can Chuck Schumer go jump down a well please? Fuck the DNC's "centrist" republicrat agenda. Return to progressivism you archaic troglodytes.
Honestly fuck these moderate assholes.
They're not moderate. They are conservative.
Pictured: two of the most useless government employees in history, one of whose net worth grew tenfold after being appointed the successor to the queen of insider trading, and the other one of which is so deep in the pocket of fossil fuel interests that he needs a 12 foot snorkel to breathe.
I'm sure they've already ran the numbers and realized getting power to exploit the people from winning is far less likely than getting it from switching sides.
I could swear this shit is like the plot from The Producers. They've monetized their incompetence and realized that they can make more money from losing elections than from winning. They collect billions in donations from desperate people and then launder it, squandering it on ineffectual "vote blue" spam while awarding lucrative no bid consultancy contracts with friendly party aristocracy insiders for massive kick backs and "speaking fees".
Kamala "I'm Speaking" Harris never intended to do anything OTHER than speaking. Seems the democrat establishment doesn't want any of us remembering that TALK IS CHEAP.
LOL it does seem eerily similar to the plot of the producers.
And even then, they refused to have anyone but the old guard speak. Palestinians to help bridge the people who are unhappy with both parties supporting murder? Nah, why do that?
Democrats think words speak louder than actions. A strongly worded tweet stops trump and musk from taking over the government. A donational pledge stops transphobia and racism.
Identity politics is the chief weakness of Dems. Dems do that way too much rather than not enough.
Her "talk" wasn't very effective. She should have called Trump a fascist and traitor and rapist and corrupt and incompetent every single day. Her rhetoric was shit.
It's amazing how inept they really are at being the opposition.
They're not inept. They're in on it
They aren't stupid, they do it on purpose to get money and voters who have "no other option" but to vote for Democrats.
I don't have any democratic representatives to call. At any level. Anywhere. Do I call Jeffries and Schumer directly?
Still call your Republican representatives and ask what the fuck they are thinking by surrendering their power to an executive branch. That's not how our Republic supposed to work.
Edit: they supposed to represent you, you actually are in state where your representatives are responsible for the current situation and you are wondering how to contact representatives from the minority party that has a very little power to do anything right now.
It doesn't matter that you think they won't listen, if you and others won't complain, they definitively won't do anything.
I mean if they need a quick temperature check I know this song that goes MOVE BITCH GET OUT THE WAY BITCH GET OUT THE WAY.
Say it with me, the Democratic Party is not a real political party.
Things really need to start now on establishing a party and running candidates from local on up to combat things in the next major elections. If the democrats refuse to properly do their jobs, then elect those who will.
We should call it the Workers with Guns Party
Sign me up comrade. Let's make some campaign slogans. How are these:
"Free doctor visits for me or free morgue visits for thee"
"Ammo is cheaper than healthcare"
"They said 'the pen is mightier than the sword' before the masses had AR-15s"
"AI can keep the jobs but we will be paid in cash or blood"
Or the classic with a twist:
"Death to fascists and billionaires"
They could use some refining but I think the sentiment shines through at least.
Some of these ain't bad!
"The tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of your boss."
"Arm the poor."
"I work, therefore I am."
"Bring Your Gun to Work Day"
"Do you know where your CEO lives?"
I like those as well. I think we're on to something here.
I think it's of utmost importance to co-opt guns and 2A enthusiasm. We don't say "You can keep your guns", we say "You can use your guns! Shoot that way!"
We also need to co-opt anti-liberal rhetoric. It's important to maintain shared contempt toward common enemies: Basically, men in suits
"Oh, you don't like unions? Neither does your boss."
"Middle managers are human shields to protect your CEO from looking you in the eye."
Moreover, co-opt family values rhetoric: "Defend your family from parasitic health insurers."
"Defend your family from wage theft."
"Defend your family from your landlord."
"Protect your children from health insurance."
"Protect your children from predatory bank loans."
"Protect your children from your boss."
"Protect your children from for-profit education"
We also have to co-opt their hatred of racist accusations
"You're not racist! Your CEO is."
You basically just described my politics lol. I've been saying forever that the left needs to adopt guns as part of their platform. It's not exactly prophetic at this point to say that authoritarianism almost always comes from the right. The 2A is arguably more important for the left to take seriously. You gotta be able to defend yourself from fascism and anything else they try to pull.
It kinda broke the usual "THEY WANT TO TAKE OUR GUNS" crap when the Democratic candidates on the ticket are both gun owners (and Walz and avid hunter)
Hey Democrats, why don't you form another couple of committees and release some weak statements condemning the other side while doing fuck-all. Clearly, it's gotten you this far, so why not just keep treading that same old road? It's frustrating to see the Democrats get beaten over the head again and again and learning the wrong lesson. FUCKING DO SOMETHING.
The Democrats in question would likely say they're upset progressives are getting mad at Democrats as if they have the power to pass bills or do much of anything. Yelling "do something" isn't helping when your party doesn't have any power.
Ironically the most power Democrats have is thanks to the filibuster, which Progressives campaigned against for years.
When the R’s are in a minority they seem to block everything just fine though…
Maybe if they can't do anything, these useless fucks should all resign and retire. Clearly, it wouldn't make one difference.
And have new people with new ideas? Never! That's why Clinton and Harris won, old ideas work in new times!
Progressives have even less power. You want them to all resign and retire?
Less than zero?
Do nothing even though the conservatives and rich tech companies are taking over the federal government!
They have millions, they can do many things to make conservatives work harder every single time, they can run protest, they can amplifiy their voices behind one leader, they can do alot of things....
Vichy-Democrats.
it didnt help when the dems had power either. Theres zero correlation between what voters want and what our politicians do, even in our own party.
As to your second point:
All it takes to remove the fillibuster is a simple majority vote in the senate. Its not the shield you think it is. Its used to enable a minority party to block legislation, and the majority to let them do it while pretending to be stymied. It was used to block so many good pieces of legislation that had majority support. You think the republicans will keep that going? I doubt it.
Fuck me, weak-ass, lame-ass dems essentially fucking work for the fascists. Remove the slack-jawed shitweeds and replace with actual fighters, ffs
Fucking shit heads. I hope they [redacted].
Forgive the ad that may play. As for political relevance… just enjoy the lyrics and show some imagination.
Don't forget this one
I start the fire - that’s the idea
Most of us know they are just one side of the political coin. Easy to flip, hard to call
bro dems just can't stop bending over and gaping themselves for the conservatives, as if anyone wants them to do that lmao ANYTHING to avoid left wing populism. instead of dominating politics for decades with left wing populism let's just gape ourselves publicly instead
All of the info in this article comes directly from the AXIOS Article which imo is a much better read and less biased against the Dems.
I'm going to write my congressmen again
“The progressives” is not a party
But it should be.
It should be
I voted 3rd party in the election in a swing state and would do it again today.
The Democrats need to internalize the political cost of supporting Israel. If they want to win, they have to drop Israel.
I don’t think that is a lesson to take away here
A party with more support for Israel won so if that was the issue then it seems they didn’t support Israel enough
Seeing as centrists dems cant win without the left I dont think your point matters. The left isnt about to make any deals that include genocide, period. Not hard genocide, not diet-genocide. Harris could have won by breaking from Biden and calling Bidens actions genocide, but she refused to and she lost the voters. And if the next dem does the same they will lose the same. Its really that simple. And yes, the people that left their ballot blank or voted third party will do the exact same thing again, even as Trump burns the country down.
If we have to burn a country to the ground with murderous war crime enabling policies, our system does not deserve to exist either.
America’s far left are centrists
Your point of burning the system to the ground i can get behind but your proposal of doing that by letting fascists decide how to rebuild it instead of using violence (if you’re a terrorist) or public protests (if you’re a pacifist) is not something I would suggest
I'm not exactly in favor of burning it down either if I am allowed that choice, but my actions are limited to: vote Dem, vote republicans, not vote, or vote third party. And I dont see how I get to no genocide plus please dont burn my world down from those choices.
By taking a tougher line on Israel than Biden? Possibly yes.
No, that could have completely sunk her campaign. Because "genocide" is hyperbole. Just because people here rarely bother to point out that "genocide" is obvious hyperbole, does not mean that the vast majority of voters do not know that using the word "genocide" is obvious hyperbole.
(1) Biden didn't have any "actions" in Gaza. That was Hamas and Israel
(2) War crimes are not the same thing as "genocide". Genocide means trying to exterminate an entire population.
(3) A war is not the same as war crimes. There has to be intentional killings of civilians.
The Palestinian Genocide is a genocide.
This is not up for debate.
Hyperbole is hyperbole. It is precisely because 99% of people know that it is hyperbole, and they know that 99% of people know it is hyperbole, that nobody bothers to point out the obvious to you.
Genocide denier.
Yep. I always avoid bullshit. If it wasn't bullshit you would have tried to refute my 3 points. But we both know you can't. Did you really think that 99% of people didn't know this was hyperbole just because nobody thought this hypobole was important enough to issue a reality check before?
Genocide denier.
Dumb idiot.
Can always count on democrats to interpret any sensory input as confirmation that they aren't far enough to the right.
The takeaway of a better person would be that that wasn’t the deciding issue
Are you happy with the current administration's Israel policy though?
The voted third party so I imagine not.
Except unless they had been lobotomized, they knew damn well that their vote was being thrown away and that Trump would be the likely winner.
Which is tact approval of Trump and everything that came with it.
You're rephrasing the post as though you're making a "gotcha!" statement, when it's just the thing they said. Their argument is that the Dems needed to lose for any chance of party reform to occur, and they voted in a way that would encourage that outcome.
It's an argument that I find compelling, especially given the fact that the Democrat leadership seems to be actively trying to learn all the wrong lessons from their humiliation, where they are trying to learn anything at all. This indicates to me that, to some degree, OP is correct and there wasn't even a snowball's chance in hell that party leadership would have done anything significant had they coasted to victory based solely on being not-Nazis.
To seat his logic in another context, where the Trump of it all is not a factor, it's the same argument I've heard lefties trot out in a discussion about legal vs illegal protest tactics. Which is to say, effective protest is protest which forces people to engage with the issue being discussed, and legal protest is ineffective because, by design, it is easily ignored by both the public and the powers that be.
All that being said, the argument is not so compelling as to convince me that any pain caused to the Dems in service of organizing an actual progressive wing is worth the pain Trump's election is causing people, the environment, or the world in general. I don't know anything about OP, so I don't want to state this as fact, but, to me, it smacks of the privilege that comes with figuring they will make it through this period okay (if not particularly great). Therefore, it's worth it to them to endure this inconvenience, in the hopes that it effects change in the Dems. Attack their argument on that front all you like, but you're not contributing anything by saying "you helped elect Trump!" when that's what they said they did and they'd do it again.
Are we pretending the dems werent the ones who leveled gaza and committed genocide so far? They did that shit and they promised to do more of it.
And we dont know who to credit with the ceasefire.
Am I wrong? seems like those are just facts.
No, we're not pretending that at all. Is the current administrations policy better?
I dont think thats a forward looking question. Lets try: "Was that a good policy choice and does that represent who Dems say we are going forward?" and "should we trust centrists in leadership any longer because they sure have been out of touch screwing the pooch for a long time" and "do we want more of this right-wing-lite fascist war support BS?"
I'm tired of losing through DNC immorality and incompetence. Arent you? Its way past time to clean house.
I'd prefer you answer my question. Are you happy with the current administration's policy?
Sticking to the canned messaging only eh. I sure do understand why you'd take that approach.
You don't seem to understand anything. It's a yes or no question.
Is the current administration's Israel policy preferable to you?
You're not answering because only a psychopath would say yes. But saying no, if you voted 3rd party, is admitting you fucked up. That's why you avoid it. You can't admit you're wrong.
And we still have swathes of Lemmy screaming that we need to call the Democrats and that they aren't useless as a party and that calls and emails are a valid and productive method of getting favorable action done.
And then the DNC have a private meeting to tell all the leaders of the leftist holding pens to get a better leash.
If the calling and emailing is pissing them off why would you stop??
Cause annoyance is the tactic that we have used for the last 2 decades and it's got us here.
So we should move on to appeasement or contentment? No. Give them all nine circles of Hell.
Sure just don't expect it to do anything or than annoy them and have private meetings like this to try and figure how to shut us up.
Them being annoyed is already an improvement over them ignoring us.
People who didn't vote ask the democrats to do something to fix it.
You just say that everyone to your left is a nonvoter as a pretext for ignoring them.
Eighty million people chose not to vote.
Now they're surprised that Trump is doing exactly what he said he would and they're all asking someone to fix it for them.
And you assume anyone that contacts their legislators is one of them.
It's neat watching "Voting isn't enough! You need to get involved!" become "Not like that!" when people start holding democrats accountable for their complicity.
You’re right if enough people get involved maybe they can do something… in two years.
Until then, they're going to register their disapproval. I hope they only get louder forever.
You want them to shut up.
I wish they spoke up when it mattered.
BULLSHIT.
You wanted them to shut up during the election too. You don't care what happens as long as anyone to your left and only your left shuts up.
More like representatives upset their constituents want them to do something
Or you're saying they don't need to listen to the people in their districts?
Fuck off, I voted and I'm fucking rowdy.
Good I wish there were more people like you.
I voted, fuck you.
I mean, people who did vote for them are also demanding the Dems do anything in their power to slow or stop this, which is exactly what the Reps have done when the situation is reversed and Dems just throw up their hands like there's nothing they can do in both scenarios
Maybe we're getting sick of them trying to play act the "good guys" doing things "by the rules" while watching the Reps do whatever the fuck they want and getting away with it again and again