Reagan started the 3 billion in military aid to Israel and the other two you mentioned continued it. And this is the very thing Biden is criticized for.

You say they ended wars with phone calls, without specifically saying what you're referring to. But I can guess the following two things are true of Reagan, Bush, and Clinton: 1) they weren't dealing with Netanyahu, and 2) they weren't dealing with Hamas. Netanyahu was clearly not interested in ending the war until his buddy Trump was president, so there never was an option to bring "peace with a phone call". Biden held back weapons to Israel, taking flak from how own party to do so - did any of his predecessors?

I'm not here to say Biden did enough, but you guys and the pro Israel side have something in common - you have a particular hate for Biden.

Seriously? The admin there refuses to answer when asked if they support Russia. And check the modlogs. They hand out vague “rule 1” violations that are critical of communism sometimes several times a day.

.ml isn’t just a safe haven for leftist trolls.

Brutal. Savage. Reckt.

Yup, more diversion. No one wants to engage with your bad faith arguments.

What are you talking about?

nice anecdote, it decisively proves the argument

This is like choosing to do nothing in the trolley problem because you disagree with the notion of taking part in something that will kill people.

Nah, it's rejecting the entire scenario as being made up. Why not fucking stop the trolley?!?!? Its our foot on the throttle making it run people over!!

They offered nothing because they thought they had an easy win.

Remember, nothing was...

A woman's bodily autonomy. A Trans person's right to comfort in their body. The separation between church and state. A birthright citizens right to live in their country. An employee's right to a safe job.

And so much more... And it's only been 7 days. Fuck anyone who said the Dems brought nothing to the table. You ignored what they were fighting to keep a hold of in order to parrot some bullshit Russian disinfo false equivalency about a genocide being committed by a different fucking leader in a different fucking country.

they didnt offer nothing but it was ridiculous to parade around with Liz Cheney - possibly the least popular politician in the US. I can only think they were trying to get Trump elected

She was the only viable option other than trump, as pro-genocide centrists were so fond of gloating. I voted for her. You gonna gloat that I voted for your genocide now?

No, I'm dismissing anyone who doesn't give enough of a shit about Palestinians to bother talking to them.

How often have you done it?

Of course it mattered to me 30 days ago. It mattered to me when this genocide started which is why I have been doing everything in my very limited powers to stop it. What have you done?

And there it is: fuck Palestinians. They don't matter.

Which is what I was saying about all of this arguing over American politics.

Biden is irrelevant now. But people would rather talk about him than talk about what Palestinians need today.

Fuck Biden, fuck Trump. Let's talk about their needs. No one here seems interested in that.

I'm sorry you lost me there mate. Let's take them in order

I'm not and have never been a political candidate.

The performative outrage of which I speak is people encouraging that the Democrats be punished despite the explicitly stated desire and highly probable outcome of the Republicans enabling greater atrocities, whilst disregarding the harder and more useful work of pushing individuals to oppose the genocide within the existing system of reality

What is this even meant to mean? This is precisely the performative outrage of which I speak, and it doesn't even carry semantic weight. It's just useless pseudo-accusatory sentiment

I've done something extremely general.

It only takes that much time and cost in the West, because we killed nuclear with regulations.

Look how many reactors China is building.

I refuse to take anyone seriously that spouts this level of ignorance on technological matters.

Perhaps read an introductory article on carbon storage, or ask ChatGPT:

Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS): This involves capturing CO₂ emissions from industrial sources, transporting it, and storing it underground in geological formations.

Direct Air Capture (DAC): This technology captures CO₂ directly from the air and stores it underground or uses it in industrial processes

It's a sad state of affairs that a fellow human being is more insufferable to talk to than an AI.

ROFL! Hexbear.

What does Hexbear have to do with anything?

I'm glad you feel good about yourself. Your inaction is part of the problem.

There were no actual leftists on the ballot in every state that campaigned beyond the election year. Kamala was the realistic option. It’s perfectly reasonable to be conflicted about voting for someone because they’re the lesser of two evils, but there’s nothing rational thinking a leftist or faux leftist candidate that only shows up during election years had a realistic chance of winning.

Mainly spreading awareness of what's going and exposing the flawed logic and lies in pro-Israeli propaganda since the very start and pointing out the hypocrisy of those who empower the Genociders by supporting politicians who knowingly and actively give them military support. (To the point that I've actually received e-mails in my native language from a Tel Aviv based organisation inviting me to a "learn about Israel" web course, which is funny 'cause I've never published my e-mail address here)

I'm also a member of a small party in the country I live in which is very loudly against the Israeli Occupation and the Israeli Genocide.

I keep on hammering against the whitewashing of the Democrat Genociders because their actions help normalized the support of Genocide and extreme racism in the US - they're supposed to be an alternative to the likes of Trump, the opposite not the "almost the same but a tiny bit less bad".

Democrats are supposed to walk towards Less Evil, thus opening up a political gap in the middle that also pulls the Republicans over towards Less Evil, but instead Democrats are walking towards More Evil, effectively making the baseline of American politics be Quite A Lot Of Evil and worsening, and supporting the normalization and even increasing extremism of the Evil in the Republican Party.

This isn't about the Present, because that war is lost and all that people have left is Resistance (and me not being in US means I can't be part of that), this is about the Future - if the Democrat leadership comes around to accept that their only chance is to actually be the opposite of Trump in actions, fighting for actual Principles, rather than merely be the slightly dissenting performative voice, then there is hope for improvement otherwise (as indicated by Trumps reelection after what he did last time in office) America is condemned to a cycle of presidents like Trump and worse.

People whitewashing Genocide-support as long as it's done by Democrats ain't gona push the Democrat leadership to start moving towards Less Evil.

Okay thanks for clarifying I'm in a couple threads having similar arguments and got my wires crossed.

My comment was really directed at many of the other commenters who are defending dems and pointing the blame.

I'm glad you're working through the problems and it shows a commitment to truth that is lost in most political discourse so thanks for bringing something nicely and distinctly human to the discourse.

If the point you are trying to make is that our spectacular political theatre of divisiveness and trump is actually moving the discourse away from where it should be grounded, that is the fight for the liberation of Palestinians from genocide and decades of oppression, from the actual suffering and struggles, then we agree. Not sure how I would have gotten that from your first comment, but I'm happy to accept that's what you meant, or whatever your actual intent happened to be.

A system that restrict democracy to checking a box every 4 years while silencing peaceful opposition calling for peace, is not a democracy it is tyranny. You won't be able to sell tyranny to me as democracy. And every cycle that the deep political corruption at the heart of the Democrats exposes itself for what it is, more and more people see it for what it is.

They didn't create these contradictions, neither did you and neither did I. But many people are responsible and benefit directly from the carnage. And your plan to oppose them is to stay dumb and stand in line every 4 years.

I said it elsewhere, but it just shows the divide in the Democrats between the progressives and the establishment. The fact that you've resigned to a single unconscionable viewpoint doesn't mean that other people are stupid for going the opposite way. The Palestinian people have been the victims of liberal pragmatism for 75 years. I know you want to collapse all morality and ethics into a single moment when a ballot is cast, but seriously don't you think that view is somewhat convenient for the establishment? Is this the society you want to take part in and participate in?

No its not, you dread to do it but once every 2-4 years as a matter of duty. But people who don't subscribe to your sense of moral duty, no different than the enemy right? Cant you see how self defeating it all is?

My question is answered by your question: did you and the democrats stand with the Palestinians or did you stand with Israel?

The organization you are defending with your bad faith questioning is one where it is impossible to stand with ones own principles against genocide. Democrats could not convincingly demonstrate that they would stand by Palestinians and end this genocide, even after the UN and an avalanche of international bodies, legally and scientifically proved that it was indeed a genocide that was occurring. Even then, there was just an uncomfortable shifting of feet as democrats who had been receiving campaign contributions on the order of millions of dollars over decades, were forced to either stand against that money or genocide.

They chose money, and the people who stood against the fascist oppression of the Palestinians, chose to stay home.

Because you know what didn't work? Standing with Israel when the time came to support Palestine, and then expecting people to be guilt tripped into turning out to vote for Democrats. To be clear, i never once advocated for staying home on election day, but at least I was able to surmise it by looking at the situation.

You act like I'm putting on an air of intellectual superiority, but my standards for consciousness of the situation are actually quite low. I would ask that someone would learn about and think about the situation leading up to a particular event, which you seem to want to ignore; and I ask that you have a measure of empathy. Your inability to demonstrate either should not be read as my judgement of you, but your own guilty judgement of your own fucked up reasoning that you want to put on to me. Save it for your therapist.

How on earth does refusing to listen to voters equal losing an election without also admitting that you are responsible for the outcome of an election if this was your reason to protest vote/stay home?

Because I don't blame individual voters, for the decisions of the candidate running?

You either had an effect on the election that caused trump to win via your act of protest, or you didn’t/ and therefore don’t get to say “we told you this would happen.”

So, no fault goes to the candidates? At all?

It is YOUR fault you are hungry, not all the other people eating their dinners.

Isn't it the fault of the person who only provided the food, and only giving the choice between shit sandwich and diarrhea soup?

If voters protest voting had an effect, doesn't that mean the blame lies with the candidate who wholly ignored the voters? Because they ignored the voters during the election, its fair to say they would be ignored after the election.

Seriously…. Even children should be able make this distinction. But I guess that’s what happens when arrogance meets shame-

Yes, even a child should be able to make the distinction of genocide being evil, regardless of the purported justification.

And, here's a spoiler: I voted for Harris! Yes, it was a very selfish decision on my part, because I have direct interactions daily with, well, most of all the groups that were being impacted under Biden, and now under Trump. At best, I was hoping for 4 more years of radicalizing people.

But guess what? I still am working to radicalize people.