GamersNexus responds to Linus Sebastian's WAN Show segment
Wow.
https://gamersnexus.net/gn-extras/our-response-linus-sebastianOpen linkView original on lemmy.ca299
Comments183https://gamersnexus.net/gn-extras/our-response-linus-sebastianOpen linkView original on lemmy.ca
You’d think Linus would know better than to ask GN for receipts.
I dunno. I haven't watched another episode since I heard that girl's story about sexual harassment and toxic culture while working there.
Those allegations were proven to be false by an independent third-party investigation
No, it found no evidence one way or the other. It also found that LMG didn’t ignore things and followed their policies, which seems to imply something was being reported. They certainly presented it as absolving them while threatening a lawsuit, but it didn’t prove anything.
Same! I stopped watching any of his company’s content
I blocked all their channels on YouTube after that too.
I’m team Suop. Linus is a cunt.
Yeah he seems like a real dick.
I stopped long before then because the content had turned into garbage. There's too many tech content creators out there to watch his company's click bait crap.
If I hadn't already, I would have stopped then though.
You are a drop in the bucket. LTT is at 16 million subs to GN's 2.5 million. That story was investigated by a third party with no wrong doing found. LTT isn't going anywhere.
I don't care.
Ok, thanks for letting me know?
Never heard this do you have a link or something?
I had read Madison Reeve's post somewhere but it was in Twitter I think. I can't access it anymore without an account it seems. So here's a couple it articles.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/linus-tech-tips-youtube-controversy-1.6940087
https://www.forbes.com/sites/conormurray/2024/05/23/youtube-channel-linus-tech-tips-says-sexual-harassment-allegations-not-substantiated-after-investigation/
Thanks I actually started searching myself too and found this https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1691693740254228741.html
Edit I also found this
https://www.dexerto.com/tech/linus-tech-tips-reveals-allegations-ex-employee-were-false-following-investigation-2737147/
Quote from Madison: I purposefully cut my leg open so badly I would have to go to the ER to get it stapled back together. It was genuinely the only way in my mind to take a day off without being harassed for a reason why.
I think I would leave a crappy job way earlier than even considering commiting self harm.
Thanks for providing these links.
I just checked out r/pcmasterrace and Linus might be right then. Most people over there seem to be parroting Linus excuses and down voting anyone who says otherwise.
How many times do we need to teach you this lesson, old man?!?
I responded elsewhere in this thread with more commentary and I'm also not done reading yet, but how is receipt 1 anything at all? It seems both parties closed that email chain satisfied with the resolution outlined by Linus. If GN was upset with the resolution, maybe they should have said something?
Edit after further reading: How is receipt 2 anything at all either? Steve literally says in the opening of his email that the information is intended to be useful for future attempts. If he wanted LMG to edit old videos or provide extra detailed information then maybe he should have asked?
Receipt 3 is rough for Linus though, he has to do better when it comes to communicating. Not only with the choice of language but when it comes to understanding the the intent and body of a message before responding himself (the latter not too surprising given his history of wan show live responses to misunderstood chat messages).
Well that’s pretty fucked up
Yeah for someone who is not close friends, making remarks like that is not a joke. That's fucked
I have a person online I used to consider a friend that made similar commentary once.
Hilarious too cause he has a physical disability. So you'd think he'd have compassion but nope!
I'm not sure these are the receipts GamersNexus believes them to be. They're all kinda stretching things into a gray area.
The plagiarism part is straight up incorrect. LMG did not say that their discussion was original reporting. The WAN show is explicitly a podcast reacting to news articles and events (WAN = Weekly Analysis and News). Plagerism needs a "passing off as your own" piece, while IANAL given react content typically ends up in the fair use category because of additional commentary and thoughts being added, the WAN show doesn't have to disclose sources. Usually on WAN show they mention where they heard of the story, and not mentioning GN is a dick move, but it's not plagiarism.
The history of not following up on issues was definitely better addressed in the original GN video. But at the same time, this just makes it seems like GN is trying to use the argument "Hey we warned you once that some of your methodologies aren't great and led to skewed results and you didn't really react, so now we're gonna release an hour long video on all of your previous fuck ups and not tell you, k thx bi*"
To Linus's original point on not getting a heads up, that's not industry standard behavior and also kind of a dick move.
The unprofessional communication part I can go either way with. Would I talk to my boss like that? No. Technical mentors and peers that I had a good relationship with? Absolutely and I have done it. By the book it's unprofessional it's hardly the damning statements Gamers Nexus is trying to sell them as.
Also for those of you who have not watched any LMG content since that original GN video, LMG has cleaned up their act quite a bit, so credit where credit is due. Linus also only asked for receipts since he was getting increasingly frustrated with several negative comments coming from GN whereas on the LMG side they've continued to praise and recommend GN content
Your understanding of what qualifies as plagiarism feels wrong. Just because an organization advertises itself as a "weekly analysis and news" doesn't disqualify them from citing sources. They still are required to give credit where credit is due.. Even mainstream news channels will let their audience know where they are acquiring their information whenever it isn't coming from their own investigations.
At the end of the day, if a primary source privately requests a citation, then a citation is definitely required, so this is where lmg really messed up. GN (as the primary source) felt wronged when lmg used information from their own investigative journalism and did not give them credit (when they apparently gave Jayz2cents credit). At that point in time, lmg was obligated to give GN credit and lmg admitted to this mistake; but then did little to nothing to rectify it.
And moreover, the question is from Linus about why they weren't given a right to reply to GN's first big piece. The plagiarism and subsequent lack of resolution is stated as a reason that GN felt uncomfortable. GN evaluated that situation and felt it met their own standard. I dont know if LMGs reporting on EVGA actually qualifies as plagarism, but GN is successfully providing the context for their decision.
Ultimately, Linus asked why? And GN said essentially because you did 'this' and it crossed our threshold for hostility, and we actually didn't give those other outlets right of reply either like your claiming we did so calm down.
Agreed. I think GN missed the point by not publishing the smoking gun receipts, but an avalanche of receipts for things LMG was guilty of and have admitted to. It kinda makes it look like GN wants it to look like they're "burying LMG with evidence", but in reality the smoking gun would only need to be a paragraph & some screenshots.
While I mostly agree with you, I do think there are problematic things in this article that make Linus come off as disingenuous at best, especially seeing that he played the "I have 0 idea what I did wrong, I want to sue you but i wont" card.
As for the reciepts for lack of citations, while I think it's obvious that Steve is asking for citations and he shouldn't have to ask, it's always best to make your request explicit. It breeds animosity to have expectations and not state or ask them clearly. I could absolutely see someone being naive in these exchanges and thinking that Steve was reaching out not to get a citation but to fix future mistakes.
The worst thing about this bullshit though is the lmg clips video title. It's a serious allegation that Linus allegedly wants to resolve, but they cover it in cringe memery. And I say this as someone who watches LTT and not GN.
I think if Linus had just called out Steve's beef and publicly requested some forum to speak privately or publicly and sort out differences, that'd be one thing. But with the lmg clip title and the "want to sue, but I won't" bs, it all just seems kinda gross. I know that Linus may not be personally responsible for that, but the company uses his name, and he started it.
I took Linus's statement to mean that he doesn't understand why he is continuing to get heat from GN since they have addressed the issues GN pointed out.
The could sue but won't part I think it's coming more from a context with the ongoing Honey lawsuit, since at least on WAN show its been brought up several times that people recommend LMG join the lawsuit and Linus repeatedly refusing because as he puts it, he's not a litigious person. Given the rest of the his plea in that segment for the viewers to not go after GN, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on it. I also personally give a lot of leeway to people and organizations who have admitted mistakes in the past and corrected them so that definitely feeds into me choosing not to interpret things the way you are, even though I can see why you view it that way.
And yeah the dedicated clips channel video was moronically named imho. Linus or someone else at LMG should have vetoed it, it's a serious topic and deserves to be taken as such. If they felt the need to make a joke, do it like the "channel this angry energy into powering RTX 5090s". A small quip at the end, not leading into things
I'm my experience "I could sue, but won't" is only ever used as a threat by narcissist assholes who got called out and don't have enough evidence to sue, because if they truly did, they would. His ego was hurt by his own shitty attitude, so he's using threats he can't back up to be a bully. He's basically saying "I have more money than you and can drain your resources with a frivolous lawsuit if I wanted to"
You can't publish an entire NYT news article verbatim and then claim, "I'm just reacting." The GN article is copyrighted.
Are we talking copyright or plagiarism here? GN is claiming plagiarism, not copyright infringement
Edit: spelling
Plagiarism is when you don't make legal claims on someone copying your work or where the work wasn't copyrighted.
GN was being nice about it by calling it plagiarism instead of invoking lawyers.
Edit: don't just downvote. Explain why plagiarism of copyrighted work isn't a copyright violation.
That is not what plagiarism means
Oxford English Dictionary
The action or practice of taking someone else's work, idea, etc., and passing it off as one's own
Merriam-Webster
to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source
Dictionary.com
an act or instance of using or closely imitating the language and thoughts of another author without authorization and the representation of that author's work as one's own, as by not crediting the original author
All three definitions clearly state that Plagiarism is taking some production of someone else's and claiming it as your own. That there is some kind of deception going on as to who created the original thought/work. Merriam-Webster's definition has that second component talking about the act of using without crediting the source, which LMG didn't do at first but later added a pinned comment. While not immediate and the barest amount of effort on LMGs part, but it still is credit.
Plagiarism has no legal component to its definition.
Copyright does have legal implications as it is someone's right to duplicate a work. In general a creator of a work has exclusive rights to reproduce it, but there are exceptions (everyone's favorite Fair Use laws). With LMG being Canadian the legal side is more complicated but in US courts it's been tested that one such exception is around additional commentary and that the usage of the work was limited as to what was relevant to being actively discussed (big case here being H3H3 a few years back). Even by GN's own admission the WAN show was taking phrases and repeating them verbatim, but just that, only phrases. Ones pertaining directly to the on hand topic of EVGAs ending partnership with Nvidia. They were not showing GNs video, reading his script word for word start to finish. Again, IANAL but I find it highly unlikely that a US or Canadian court would say that what LMG did on WAN Show meets the definition of a copyright violation
Edit:
And to answer your last point directly, Plagiarism and Copyright are orthogonal to each other. You could plagiarize by not giving public credit but still get copy permission from the copyright holder. Semantically kinda weird to think about
That's the point I was attempting to make. Linus used Gamers Nexus copyrighted work without permission or even attribution. It was both plagiarism and a copyright violation. Steve was being polite by only calling Linus out on the plagiarism.
Did you not understand anything I typed out?
LMG used GN material, yes.
LMG did not commit plagiarism
LMG did not violate copyright law
Words have meanings, and by the definitions of the words plagiarism and copyright LMG does not meet the criteria. You and I do not get to change the definitions to fit whatever narrative we have in our heads on who we want to be the good guys and who we want to be the bad guys
From the Gamers Nexus website:
"The script nearly identically matched the order, topics, and words."
I have not finished reading the article, but "Receipt 1" is just embarrassing to GN in my eyes. They claim LMG never addresses the plagierism and provides an email chain where Linus tell him what exactly LMG is going to do in response and GN responds indicating the solution is good. Where is the problem?
Specifically on publicly addressing it, Linus said they will pin a comment and Steve said that's OK. That's what happened. Is it truly unresolved? Just reading the emails provided makes it really look like an open and closed case.
I also dont get why they include the additional context in that part of their response. What does GN's recent criticism of LMG have to do with that interaction?
Sorry, on mobile and just had to type something out before I forgot, because this is a long read.
It’s wild how Linus hasn’t pivoted into acknowledging his videos are like junk food. They’re fun but you shouldn’t take them too seriously.
Instead he’s doubling down in all the worst ways while continuing to come off as another whiny tech ceo
He fell off after he moved out of the house.
When Nick van Berkel left it turned to shit. He probably left at the best time.
He has? Not to the degree you're taking it, but that's been a topic of conversation on the WAN show multiple times.
Yeah I'm a bit confused. He's said they are trying to provide a pretty base level of education... Just enough to get started, but aren't meant to be crazy deep dives. The labs content is a bit different, but I think it's pretty easy to tell the difference.
why is there 0 response on the honey and billet labs thing, which is part of that same wan show? what's with this half done response, why not show all the receipts? and also, why does he bring up a threat of legal action when there was no actual threat of legal action if you see that wan show?
this is such a disappointment, I'm apparently meant to watch as these two adults constantly miscommunicate, misunderstand and ignore half of what the other has said online, and stretch the back and forth even longer than it needs to. This will take like 5 wan shows and gn articles to conclude properly
Yeah I’ve come to the conclusion that anyone whose main job is creating “content” is a piece of shit.
But some have Jesusier hair than others, and as such my own allegiance has been destined without say.
Edit: FR the deciding factor was the 70 dollar screwdriver along with the "trust me bro" warranty. He's a scumbag. His "media group" primarily produces entertainment clips with no value. I get some informative content from GN in comparison.
Every warranty is a "trust me bro" warranty, that was his point from the start. Have you ever actually read warranty terms?
"Guys guys guys, you should totally know those legally binding warranty documents are just as bullshit as a guy on youtube saying just trust me bro. its all the same. Just trust me on it, bro "
They're all explicitly written in legalese to give the manufacturer final say as to whether to honour it. You should really read one someday.
And different countries have different terms. At some point it becomes good will by thr conpany to fulfill the promise.
Try that shit here in Brazil and your company is paying some fines you could not have dreamed of. And guess what, the customer would get their warranty regardless of your desire.
You're missing the point. Warranties as written by the company are not legally binding, plus they all claim the company has final say on it. So having that paper or not is meaningless, even if the country has good customer law you get those benefits regardless of the company giving you a paper. So even then at the end of the day any warranty is a "trust me bro", that being said a paper makes the trust be easier to place.
Again I ask you, have you ever read warranty terms?
Notice how I said brazilian law, yet you're pretending the logic in your country would apply.
A company could write any warranty terms they wanted - hell, they could write a clause claiming "I hate laws and I'm willingly subjecting myself to the terms of this manufacturer, no takesies-backsies" and guess what, I'd still be protected by the lawful warranty process.
A company can set their own terms for additional warranties they might want to offer as part of their marketing, with some restrictions still. But for the legal minimum? No warranty terms in the world could violate them.
If Brazilian law offers such good consumer protections by default, then that just further proves the point that a written policy isn't necessary
It's like none of them have seen Tommy Boy.
The legal action is, i think, because linus is basically dragging them through some deep mud by saying he is wrong and what he does are lies. Now i know gn kinda started it by mentioning them in the honey lawsuit video, and they shouldnt have, not like how they did ( but they were right that linus should have spoken up in 2017 because they knew what was going on ).
I also suspect there is no reaction on the honey and biletlabs thing because there is nothing new to add. We know linus knew but kept his mouth shut about it and why, and we know ltt's internal workings fucked up everything about the biletlabs prototype (the video, the mislabeling of item, the auction, ... ).
This whole thing is a shitfest and both parties need to calm the fuck down, which a threat at legal action might force them to do so.
My opinion is that linus (again) shouldve kept his mouth shut about how "his head wouldve rolled if he spoke about honey" because that was wrong of him. Gn shouldnt have made the low punch towards ltt after that which caused linus to (again) not shut up and make things worse.
Which was only mentioned because the original investigator, MegaLag, also mentioned LTT as part of the investigation into honey.
Funny how people are rather obessive over ignoring this crucial point, while trying to make Steve seem obsessed with Linus/LTT.
Oh i know, i saw megalag's video before it blew up and ltt was indeed already in some bad spot because of it. Doesnt mean they (gn) should have gone with a low blow of showing the wan show bit and responding to it as they did.
That said, i agree with the core of their problem though. Gn are doing the right thing in the end and linus shouldve done so too back then.
Wasnt LTT also informed by other peers? Don't remember much of any coverage by any other outlet.
And I think Linus even said that the information went around in the creator circles but didnt reach viewership.
Holy shit it has a table of contents
It's fun to watch them do dumb projects and drill too many holes in a wall
Because they're entertaining?
You don’t have to watch them? I just don’t watch stuff that I don’t like. Rather than arguing about how bad it is.
Unless it’s banter over a beer, that’s different.
It's less than before the first GN rant. IMO It's much more relaxed and thoroughly written now. IMO The ECC Squad effort is actually working. IMO It's still mostly dumb, bleeding edge, junk food content; but it's easier to watch now than before.
It's not your cup of tea, fine. Then don't watch.
It's a 150+ employee company, putting out all these videos is very reasonable imo
People don't get this. Steve's team has definitely less than 20, and I've seen weeks where GN pumbs out 7+ videos, there was a week recently where they did 4 case reviews the same week, and that was just case reviews, they had other videos. LTT has at least 5x the number of employees, of course he can pump out way more videos.
Some people like to watch a trainwreck.
I was one of them, for a while.
but he got to stupid and insufferable to even hate watch.
Hey, he had lots of fans until it was revealed that he was a jerk and his videos weren't really about giving good tech advice.
At least you had the self-respect to leave.
I mean, he was pretty obviously a cunt for a long time before the whole fiasco with stealing the prototype, then lying about having made it up to the company.
Emily was cool. But she hasn't shown up forever.
Emily is no longer with LMG as of sometime... Last year?
https://bsky.app/profile/eayoung.net
I would subscribe to Emily if she did Linux for noobs sort of tutorial
Everyone I really like at LMG ends up leaving sooner or later....
Shame, those videos were the best. As it felt like she actually knew what she was talking about
TIL
Sorry but, where does it say that in the link you added? Because "@linustech.bsky.social" is still listed at the top of her profile?
If only it also had words "former host/writer" before
Here you go
Thank you for the clarification.
I stopped watching when he cultivated a toxic work environment full of harassment.
I don't support that.
For people who love ads and being shilled to and watch infomercials in their free time.
Go to r/linustechtips....
Dont feel special, I hate everyone equally
Because their entertaining videos with cool rare/expensive tech are entertaining. I avoid reviews from them at this point (which is disappointing since Labs had potential), but the cool home server stuff or x Gamers 1 PC are just cool and there is not much like it elsewhere on YT.
After skimming the comments I can confidently say there are 4 types of people here: people who hate LTT, people who hate GN, people who don't know what plagiarism is and me. Best course of action is to just move on to the post. The second best is getting the popcorn ready before diving in, you'll feel like you're back on reddit.
Thank you for saving me from a potential headache. Maybe I'll come back later with a rum and coke.
Uh I'm sorry what the fuck
I checked out from all LMG videos after I found out about the treatment of Madison during the huge controversy. WTF is going on over there? I thought Linus and Steve were friends at one point, did Linus forget that Steve remembers everything?
From the article:
If they were, they emphatically AREN'T anymore.
I picked up on that one, I remember that they'd get pretty buddy-buddy for a while before it just stopped sometime around 2019. Apparently things have escalated a little.
I don't think Linus has the ability to pilot a company, even as a C-Suite with no actual responsibilities. I went from respecting them to seeing them as just another shitty corporation.
The only friends Steve needs are at Level1Techs and GN.
And derbau8er, and hardware unboxed, and jay and, ...
Ltt is a league on its own and lives on its own little island at this point (if that is a good or bad thing, i leave to you to decide)
I checked out from LMG when they did the video on the Velkase Velka 3, an uber-niche case in a niche segment, used bad parts, didn't use exhaust fans, used a poor cooler choice, and got a pc running near thermal throttle when my near-identical spec pc was running 15°C cooler and benchmarking better. It made me realize that they have poor methodology and poorer research standards, so I just stopped watching entirely
I noped out of LTT after the initial reporting. What happened about the allegations of harassment and particular allegations by a former woman employee?
Personally I’d wait for more people to complain. There are lots of women working at LMG, no one else has complained.
I’ve see disgruntled workers before lie about lots of stuff. If she’s telling the truth then others would also be saying something.
Makes sense. I guess it was a perfect storm back then that convinced me of something wrong. I used to watch WAN religiously and all the LMG channels, but with all these allegations it made sense to me to not give my viewership until everything is cleared, and it seems we are still far from it?
I mean, it’s hard to proof a negative.
You ought to follow your conscience, but I haven’t found her to be a reliable narrator personally. The results of the investigation were enough for me, at least without further evidence to the contrary.
Or more specifically the investigation found that:
Source
By memory the external firm they hired did not release documentation of the investigation but did release a statement saying LMG hadn't done the things that were claimed
Honestly though, with this many different claims from such separate entities, I get the feeling there's some evil lurking within at least some core (leader)ship that's probably linked to all this negative coverage?
More directly, Linus kinda acts like a bit of a shit pretty frequently - between a bit of overconfidence that comes off through his general demeanor, and directly calling Steve autistic (allegedly) and definitely using the word 'retarded' as a derogatory (present in the text thread Steve posted), I'd say its pretty clear where the problem lies.
LMG would be a whole lot better off without that L stuck on the front of their name
Well, so much for ditching the R-slur from his vocabulary. It's like everything Linus says is in bad faith. What a douchebag. And also texting while driving, class A shit-4-brains specimen.
Linus is dropping hard Rs again? 😜
Not defending and I don't have the full context of both in my memory but when was the text sent and when was the promise made to never use it again?
Yeah; I only ever see his content when the drama spills into other channels now.
I miss the days of small-time LTT doing silly projects like whole-room water cooling. :/
To me LLT is basically best when it is somewhat similar to old Top Gear, where they do silly projects (which increased in scope with the companies growth).
For actual reviews on the other hand I'd never really trust them and would always look to other sources like GN or Hardware Unboxed (who e.g. seem to do great monitor reviews) for example.
But I've also scaled back watching the channel to maybe looking at it once or twice in the last year.
Same. I feel like once Luke started taking more of a back seat content-wise and letting Linus get in front of the camera by himself more is when things started going downhill
I have a funny feeling Luke was the only one willing to talk at Linus behind the scenes to control some of Linus's worse impulses.. and once Luke was gone and having to focus on float plane..
Yo, why does the website play boss music in the background?
Like a boss
Like most internet beefs I'm guessing the truth lands somewhere in the middle.
Though as someone only sorta paying attention and I don't really care what happens I will say that Linus appears to be more upfront about his mistakes and continuing to own up to them as they come up. Not like he can own up for things that either never happened or he doesn't remember happening. He is still a human.
GN comes across more like the jealous angry kid that lashes out over text messages because they didnt get what they wanted. I can't shake the feeling that the "sudden" turn of GN against Linus has something to do with something else entirely that none of us even know about... Yet.
All that being said I have always liked Luke the most and I stopped watching LTT stuff quite a bit when Luke left. I still watch WAN because I find the information and entertainment combination the perfect background audio while I'm tinkering or whatever. I think both the GN and LTT videos generally both suck these days. GN just stands there with some paper in his hands and word vomits at the camera. Linus reminds me of the annoying orange at times.
Yep.
GN brings the receipts and can back up any claim they make.
Linus just bitches and moans while being called out on his legitimately bad behavior/thievery/etc,.. and hes used to being able to just lean into his cult, that laps up everything he says, and use them to pressure any smaller critic into silence.. Don't work with GN though, lol.
Man, idk about any of that. The only thing I can say is too far is the alleged autism comment, but there's no proof, just his word from 4.5 years ago
The WAN show is news commentary, that sometimes doesn't accurately attribute. That's reason not to watch, but not for claims of plagiarism or stealing.
And I rarely watch anything from LMG, except for specific videos that are exactly what I'm looking for. I'm not a follower of theirs, but just taking GN word as gospel seems just as dumb
Commentary is
"And heres a news article from Gamers Nexus insert brief summary of story, brief back and fort, comments and opinions about it. And if you want more info, follow up with the original article at the link below"
There are literally evidence supported facts, and the fact that you are trying to handwave it away as dumb and as fools taking random empty words as gospel, Kinda really reveals the actual hand you're trying to play here, and says a lot more about you than anything else.
Informing the subject of an investigation and requesting comment to the allegations is considered proper journalism. Otherwise it comes off more as an attack.
Wild to go, "That claim about our journalistic integrity is wrong! We're actually far MORE irresponsible than you thought!" And think it's a gotcha
What para social relationships do to a MF lol
What GN does is not proper journalism. It's sensationalist bullshit. Please stop demeaning actual journalists.
I was similar but stopped watching the wan show when every episode became a product showcase for their merch. Real shame, I feel Luke's a weight keeping Linus somewhat grounded.
Luke is a relatively sane normal person. Linus is like the tasmanian devil. If Luke and Linuses wife weren't around who knows how canceled he would already have been lol.
It's really funny how in Linus's worst WAN show moments Luke just silently sits there doing nothing, every once in a while making a small attempt to prevent the imminent train wreck then leaving Linus to crash the train when it becomes obvious he's intent on doing so. Honestly they should probably stop doing the WAN show given how many times it's been WAN show clips that got them in hot water
I mean nothing super serious had come of it. The "hard R" incident was the funniest fucking thing ever. Luke's face was one of pure panic as he thought everything was blowing up right in his face.
I'm 54 and I understand nothing about this 😂
Its a ride. Bit of backstory if you arent familiar. Linus media group (lmg) and gamers nexus(GN) are 2 content creators on youtube focusing on tech. Lmg focuses on 'the best' or 'the most' putting out videos like 'the craziest pc ever built' as a generic example. Theres a great team behind the videos and there are some pretty interesting one and the videos cover a wide variety of tech topics. GN on the other hand does mostly tech reviews and tech news and prides themselves on being accurate reporters.
The controversy revolves around a third party. Being content creators they have sponsors who help fund the show. One of those sponsors that LMG used is an app called Honey which is a browser add-on that claims to help find the best coupons when shopping online. They came under fire recently when it turned out they were colluding with certain websites/companies and somehow stealing money. Instead of saying anything about this when they discovered it, lmg just quietly dropped them from sponsorship a change from their usual trend of calling out the company (theyve done it before with other sponsors). In a recent video, GN announced they were filing a class-action lawsuit against Honey and at one point they made a remark about Linus not doing anything at the time and then the shitshow just went downhill from there
It also started before that when GN/Steve got tired of LMG's inaccurate reporting, so he posted a deep dive into LMG issues with inaccuracy. That really started the public demolition of their working relationship.
Yep and then Madison “Suop” dropped a bombshell about toxic work culture and verbal abuse
That was later found to be unsubstantiated by a third party lawfirm hired to investigate the matter…
All they found was no evidence one way or the other. It wasn’t disproven, nor proven.
More specifically, a fan posted a video during a tour and an (ex) LMG employee started talking about ways he felt like his department (labs) was doing things better than other channels like GamersNexus.
If by other sponsors you mean Eufy, which happened well after They dropped Honey, then yes that was handled differently. Their logic was that Eufy’s (still-ongoing) security issues directly affected consumers, whereas all LMG knew about was Honey hijacking affiliate revenue trackers.
Source on what LMG as a company knew:
https://linustechtips.com/topic/1415146-weekly-sponsorship-suggestioncomplaint-thread-feb-28-2022/
So this isn't even a story then. Got it.
Thank you for your actual reporting in the comment section below this bullshit that's getting called reporting.
Man, these people need to sit down and have a proper talk. It's embarassing that they've been fighting in public for so long. A lot of that sounds like simple communication breakdowns, even.
Every goddamn time there's a new step in these conflicts, my opinion of everyone involved tumbles.
Did you not read the entire page? They were in private communication. Linus stole a long GN article, Steve only asked for recognition instead of threatening lawsuits and Linus never responded.
I've read it.
Yes. Very unprofessional that the contacts in private ended up the way they did.
Also unprofessional that Linus thought Steve was ignoring him when he was just texting the wrong number.
But those sound a lot more like incompetence than malice to me. A lot of the story is things that could've been solved with better communication.
The "scale of blame" definitively sounds like it's tilted towards LMG. But I don't really care about that right now. What I care about is that I really hope they talk for real instead of trying and failing to understand each other by text/email and then involving the audience in their fight by taking it public.
I want them to talk like adults, and I want to stop feeling like I'm being made to watch a children's quarrel.
This! It's kinda turning (parts of) tech YT into the drama filled cesspool that is the rest of YT. Shit that could and should be a private conversation seems like it's getting blown up for attention and clicks. Frankly if I wanted that type of content, I'd be watching the channels that do it better and at a much larger scale.
If anyone wants to neatly summarize this drama in a few sentences, that would be much appreciated. I don't have time to read this essay or watch multiple 45 minute videos on GN.
This stupid drama is a turn off for me. I am going to unsubscribe from GN and LTT. Going to watch other creators instead.
The article outlines a dispute between two tech content creators. One party accuses the other of plagiarism, spreading misinformation, and being unprofessional, while the accused defends themselves by claiming miscommunication and unfair treatment. Both sides present evidence to back their claims, but it boils down to a messy argument over ethics, accuracy, and accountability in online tech media.
brother why
Duh, of course that abstract's AI-generated – reads like a robot trying to sound deep. You really think I'd waste energy on this low-effort drama nonsense? Already tired of seeing Captain Cartoon-Face's cringey avatar plastered everywhere. Now? Couldn't care less if it spontaneously combusted.
XD
LTT is a shitheel, repeatedly.
LTT gets called out for being a shitheel by different people.
LTT Cries about being a victim of the big mean critics, specifically targeting GN (despite other critics)
LTT fans get big mad at GN for criticizing dear leader, while completely ignoring every other critic (Just like LTT wanted)
LTT successfully, amongst his cultists, frame it as "GN Big Mean at LTT, y u no be fren?" in desperate attempt to make someone other than LTT look like the bad guy.. and fails.
Living up to your name... Could only be more accurate if you were TechJesusCultist. Everyone involved here are socially inept, self absorbed, wannabe journalists and not a single party here have a good track record for ethical journalism historically. Anyone here for journalistic integrity is barking up the wrong tree. They should both shut the fuck up and go back to making their money and getting free tech products for the reviews they put out and stop with this YouTube drama bullshit.
So big mad.
Just finished reading. In summary: everyone loses here.
Linus made some silly but understandable mistakes, had some very poor word choices in private communications, and got Steve on the defensive by publicly mentioning he didn't want to sue but implied he could. LMG is also (in the youtube world) a large company and is likely always working on process improvements, and the improvement Steve seems to want to happen that they are definitely lacking in, is to update old content with corrections or omissions.
Steve poorly or never communicated what he thought were satisfactory resolutions to past comments or incidents and is upset that those resolutions didn't happen, and is only escalating the situation further by softly threatening legal action, while also hinting that they have way more evidence they are just conveniently leaving out despite their current evidence being mostly empty (specifically receipts 1 and 2).
They both run very different channels with different focuses and staff sizes and production values, and each has made mistakes. None of this spat should have been public, but it seems both parties are just bad at communicating with one another and it has only escalated due to LMG actually publicly responding to public allegations by GN.
If I had to declare a winner so far, Steve is looking worse for wear to me given the poor examples provided as receipts and the continued threat of legal escalation, but again - everyone loses here. Everyone looks worse and this should have been handled privately. Maybe LMG should appoint someone other than Linus to handle fellow media contacts, because it doesn't seem like he's the best for that job.
Steve very clearly says he would be happy with being attributed in a pinned comment on the video in question. Linus agreed to do that, then... didn't do that. Steve is justified in being upset with the lack of action here, he isn't Linus's dad, he shouldn't have to ask more than once for such a simple request.
If someone with as much money as LMG threatens legal action against you, it's prudent to lawyer up and prepare a case/countersuit.
Because when you're preparing a legal case, it's generally a good idea to not give your opponents all the materials you're building your case with.
How are those examples empty? They may not be very extreme examples, but they clearly illustrate the type of behavior GN is claiming LMG engages in.
I can agree with you there.
Lol you lost me again
Motherfucker pulled me right back in lmao
At least to respond to the first segment here, the pinned comment on the VOD does attribute their GN's reporting for the segment. It does exactly what Linus said he would do in communication with Steve.
Does the pinned comment do a great job? Absolutely not, but it does what Steve agreed to, and he should have spoken up sooner if he didn't like it.
They didn't attribute on the clips channel cut, and I wouldn't be surprised if this is the result of poor internal communication at LMG (likely by Linus since he likely handled the request on the VOD) to remember to include that attribution in that upload. Again, it would have been good if Steve let them know about it and asked for them to be more careful in the future. Its hard for a large group of people to be organized in that way and reminders are helpful. To bring it up years later in a legal threat is poor form, even if he is technically in the right.
To add onto my last comment though, I like watching the content from both of these creators and will continue to do so. My interpretation is neither is evil nor bad, but that there has been a series of poor communication and differing standards and expectations between them.
LTT needs to treat Linus like SpaceX treats Musk.
built a wall of yesmen around him to agree to everything he says, and executes none of it.
After reading that article I can say that Linus is even bigger POS than I thought he was.
This whole writeup reads like an angsty high-schooler. It's all about personality conflicts and petty BS, even the plagiarism email shows that GN appeared to be happy with the response, but now they're acting like they never were.
Gaslighting all around.
LTT never made any corrections or proper attributions, like they said in the email (which is what GN was happy about - that LTT agreed they were due credit and said they'd give it to them). LTT never followed through so it's pretty justifiable that GN's initial feelings would sour.
Honestly I'd have liked to see a very short response where they took the high road. By Internet attention spans it's just mudslinging that drags them both into the mud. There's some really damning nuggets buried in that long response but the shear fact that it's such a long text response hurts optics significantly
Call me when GN explains how having an engineer sent by an incumbent monopoly holder provide exclusive content right before a massive launch is not a massive conflict of interest.
I too would ditch low input advertisers like NZXT for clout if I was making the same money GN makes from NVIDIA alone.
From its inception, GN has been covering for EVGA and for NVIDIA. He's the origin of the story "it's user error" when it's obvious for anyone to see it was a design fault (including the consortia that published the specs and revised the 12V-2x6 connector because it was a shit connector).
It's easy to be strong vs small companies when one has the backing of one of the wealthiest companies on earth. Let Steve publish the contract he has with NVIDIA if he's so keen on ethics and transparency.
Till then, it's just a competitor throw shade at another competitor for the sake of clout and audience. They're both the same marketing arms of technology companies. Note that Linus is one the bigger YT advertisers for AMD and both companies are just releasing a new gen...
I would not want to be butting heads with Steve. The guys a powerhouse and meticulous. Linus is entertainment and little more.
Man we need new tech reviewers that don't make drama by talking past each other in pedantic ways to no ones benefit and go back to talking to the audience and in simple terms so that new people can find an in to join the community.
This is pathetic. I'm so tired of both massive corporate Linus and Gamer's Nexus.
How is gamers Nexus corporate? Genuinely asking because I find their coverage refreshingly pro-consumer
Corporate was meant to be solely attached to Linus not Gamer's Nexus. I just find their coverage to be not approachable and not consumer friendly. They often over pedantic into the weeds and don't even properly talk about the massive tables they casually throw up on the screen.
I'm sorry if my adjective was misattributed to GN
Weird, I'm a complete idiot and I have no problem getting enough from their review videos to understand basics and make informed decisions.
You can learn addition from reading an algebra textbook too. Doesn't make it efficient or welcoming to most.
What happened there?
GamerNexus seeks out this kind of drama and it’s non-stop. Really an insufferable channel
Ah yes, a lovely little trap.
First its all "GamersNexus should just stop acknowledging LTT! So insufferable!"
Then if that happens, it quickly becomes "What, so GamersNexus cant even report on LTT? PFft, so much for integrity and advocacy!"
More like trying to make their name off of the backs of LTT, ankle biting and the like
Sure it is buddy.
Cause Dear Leader can do no wrong.
Just a great big mean ol conspiracy.
Ok lol I don’t care about Linus, I find Steve’s constant drama bait annoying. Literally just trying to take advantage of other people’s investigative journalism and ride the wave. It’s not just LTT, it’s something new every week.
"Im TOOOOOTALLY not a follower of dear leader. I'm a super independent thinker who is just coincidentally pushing the same narrative and spewing baseless hate for the guy Dear Leader wants attacked.*
Linus is saying this too? lol I didn’t even realize I assumed Linus was all “we’re humble and also did nothing wrong”. If he’s straight up just pointing out how low rent the tactic is then yeah I guess we’re coincidently aligned
Edit - For the record I’m sure Steve is right about his claims, I’m just saying it’s a pattern that he tears people down every week in an effort to look like a “journalist” and I find that part tacky. I enjoy good reviews
Before reading: knowing Linus and GamersNexus, I think Mr. Nexus is in the wrong here, but won't admit it
...just a bunch more insinuations, some avoidance and irrelevant stuff. I'm not going to bother further
I know gamersnexus isn't the more thorough guy, and it appears like that hasn't changed much
Lol. Is this a /s post. I think it's very clear to any human being with eyes that can read. GN is much more thorough in literally all ways.
Why do people like gamersnexus? All I ever see is them stirring up shit for views.
Do they even make real content that isn't just "I called out entity x for reason y and now everyone should be angry"?
Literally none of their "stirring up shit" videos (like the ones for msi, gigabyte, newegg, etc) have been neither unwarranted nor discredited. They've also all led to positive outcomes for consumers.
If you don't find it entertaining, don't watch it. I personally think that it's great to have people like them looking out for consumers.
Dude makes money calling people out. He's not here looking out for consumers, he's here for the paycheck. Don't be deceived. Ragebait makes money and they know it.
They make money because people watch their videos and/or contribute directly to them by buying their products. I honestly see absolutely nothing wrong people supporting a channel that they like. Especially when they're not only producing content but also potentially burning down bridges with brands/sponsors when they need to call them out. If you look at Linus, on the other hand, he deliberately chose not to call out the issues with Honey over fear or repercussions. To this day I still don't understand why he would think that informing their viewers that they were being scammed would have any negative impact at all. Except, maybe, he wasn't thinking about his viewers...
It's really weird that you'd accuse GN of going after profits when Linus has repeatedly said, and shown, that that's precisely all he cares about.
Wasn't the issue with honey that the creators were being scammed? They were replacing the codes being used with their own, so that honey was getting the affiliate money and not the creators themselves?
To the end user, the issue would be moot. The users themselves weren't even being impacted, unless they were trying to specifically use the affiliate code to support their favorite creator.
If they realized it was an issue and cut off their sponsorship because it was negatively impacting their own business and not the viewers, they have no reason to tell the viewers about it. On the same note, had they stated their reason publically for discontinuing the partnership and made an erroneous claim which, if you believe GN, they are very likely to do, it could open them up to a lawsuit with honey, and ultimately PayPal, who has a lot more money than a relatively large YouTube entertainment company.
As you said, Linus had claimed that their primary goal is making money. They're a business with over 100 employees, you have a responsibility as a business owner to ensure you can keep paying those people. He also has said that their primary channel creates edutainment and pure entertainment content because it's the only thing that can maintain their viewership at a level high enough to support LMG.
I can't see GN as anything but the annoying, self righteous redditor type who stands on his soapbox claiming everyone else is doing wrong and getting a sense of superiority out of it. Their content isn't anything particularly special, so they have to drum up the view count by creating drama. It's okay to like it, but at least hold them to the same scrutiny you would the channels they call out.
I think you haven't watched MegaLag's video (at least not all of it) or other channels that covered this properly. As you can see in this section of MegaLag's video, Honey also hurt consumers because it claimed that there either weren't any coupons available when there were or it gave you a coupon that wasn't the one with the highest discount.
Exactly. This also "hurts" consumers because, if I use an affiliate link, I want the channel I got it from to get that kickback so they can keep making content.
They do because the issue impacted both parties. Also, this is very cliché but also true, "if you see something, say something".
If you watch MegaLag's video, you'll also see that LTT then partnered with "Karma" (kinda ironic) which also does at least some of the same shady stuff Honey does. Here's the timestamped video.. They also ignored/refused to answer many of the questions MegaLag had.
GN, a smaller channel, is taking Honey to court so I don't see why a lawsuit would've scared them. They're also not alone, other creators and lawyers are doing the same thing. Honey will lose because there's undeniable proof that they've been stealing sales and offering coupon's that weren't actually the best to their consumers (if they offered any at all).
While that's true, it's also true that the end doesn't always justify the means. Ethics are very important. Not only for yourself as the owner of the company but also to your employees and the audience.
Again, you say this upsets you but can you point at a single case where they called out a company/product and were wrong? I really don't understand why you'd be upset about someone literally fighting and looking out for you.
Please name other channels that review hw as well as they do. GN and Hardware Unboxed are the only ones that I know of that are actually decent. I don't see how you could consider them "not special". Considering not only their reviews but also all of their methodology videos, technical deep dives with industry workers and/or experts and factory tours.
I do, not sure why you'd say I don't. Is there anything specific you're referring to? Afaik, they have literally no problems with other youtubers and no one (that I know of) has generated any content denouncing them. The only thing I could criticize is that Steve seems to be a bit of a workaholic but, at least according to him, that's not something he demands of his coworkers.
Truthfully, I'm not that invested in the stoty and I was under the impression that the honey issue was solely on the creator side, so knowing otherwise does change my perspective some.
That said, I don't think we know if LTT knew the entire story at the time. If they did, I also believe they should have said something. AFAIK they haven't come out to say they knew of the whole story at the time of dropping the sponsorship, just that they knew of some of the issues. Without doing a deep dive like other creators have, I still think they would rather avoid the publicity for fear of retaliation, like they stated.
Ultimately, to each their own on whether you like GN or LTT. I still think GN goes out of their way to stir drama, whether it's called for or not, and it sure seems like he just has an issue with Linus overall.
This is also discussed in MegaLag's video. They did know at least about this issue affecting them, financially. So, they brought it up with Honey, who refused to make any changes. After that, they ended their sponsorship. If they didn't figure out the full extent of the issue, it's because they didn't want to. I doubt you seriously think they didn't have the resources to investigate further.
From who? Honey? If so, that's a very mistaken mentality. They basically decided to stay quiet about something that was demonstrably hurting creators and consumers out of sheer selfishness. Coming from linus, who seems to be rather narcissistic, that doesn't surprise me. It does suprise me that this excuse would be accepted by their viewers, who were negatively impacted by this decision. Again, if you see something, say something.
Once again. Has there been an instance where it wasn't called for? I think they just have a very strict moral compass and they respect that regardless of any financial hit or extra work it might cause them. That's something I respect, a lot.
Did you read their post? Wouldn't you have a personal issue with someone who says you're autistic, quotes your work without actually quoting you, reaches out to your personal phone over random tweets because they think they're about them and also misrepresent you publicly?
For example, after the GN video, Linus said he reached out to Steve and was ignored. What actually happened was that linus sent a message to Steve's old phone, which they hadn't used for over 2 years. If you want more examples and details, you can read GN's post.
Honeys issues are two fold:
Honey steals/replaces affiliate links/cookies meaning 100% of the commission earned by creators goes to Honey instead.
Several small creators have come out to say this has essentially bankrupt their channels as the entirety of their affiliate revenue just disappears overnight, then their sponsors pullout because it appears they are generating no traffic.
Honey also collude directly with retailers to control exactly what coupons are made available to you, explicitly preventing you from getting a better deal; while telling you they've gotten the best deal possible and convincing you to not even bother with other coupons or other sources. They even have a mechanism to 'submit' coupons they hadn't applied to be distributed to other customers, to convince you you're helping others get a good deal; but those submissions NEVER go to customers.
This happens on every transaction within a browser that has Honey installed; even in cases where Honey knows before trying, that they don't have coupons to offer. It will still popup, tell you they don't have anything to offer, then replace the affiliate connection with their own.
Through this they are stealing both from the customer and from any creators/affiliates that sent that customer to the store.
I briefly fact checked myself before my comment but the first few articles I saw didn't mention the issues beyond creators. Good information and definitely changes my perspective of the overall problem. Thank you!
I know this barely means anything but it really is refreshing to have an interaction with someone who not only treats others respectfully but who is also able to admit they didn't know a part of the story.
It's obviously totally fine if you still don't agree with what I said or have other reasons to dislike GN or prefer LTT, but this type of attitude is precisely one of the things Reddit lost a long time ago.
That's all. Thank you <3
Yes they do, and its good content too.
Youll be happy to know theyve split up the 2 content too.
Gamers nexus will be tech reviews and news while their investigations moves to another channel because they noticed people like yourself dont like the content while others (like me) do. This way we both get what we want.