Discussing jury nullification is against the ToS of lemmy.world and will get you banned, according to worldnews mod
As per .world worldnews mod, no discussing naughty stuff like jury nullification.
While this post is blowing up, here's the book referenced by the shooter:
Delay Deny Defend - Why Insurance Companies Don't Pay Claims and What You Can Do About It
By request: Full, uncensored video of the shooting. (Fucking obviously NSFW)
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Nullification is your duty when the law is unjust. Also not illegal
Exactly.
Juries wouldn't work if it didn't exsist.
In practice, sort of. It's a symptom or side effect of two other really good ideas:
A jury cannot be in any way punished for any verdict they reach.
One cannot be tried for the same offense twice if it is acquitted. Technical term for this is "double jeopardy." A guilty verdict can be appealed but a not guilty verdict is absolutely final.
The shapes of these two principles are such that they cannot interlock in any way that does not leave room for jury nullification.
And saying those words in jury duty will get you tossed immediately from selection lol
I would love to make this into some viral tiktok craze or something. Because...
The powers that be don't want it to exist. Because we've got a whole system of legislatures and executives and judges to bicker about what the laws actually are but because the jury has to be the final say and we can't allow double jeopardy, it all comes down to twelve random citizens on a case by case basis.
Wouldn't it be fun to live in a world where every last person understands this and it's not a question they can disqualify on?
Man that would really upend case law lol
wtf
Jury nullification is legal.
Yep. Mods power hungry just like on reddit. Federated platforms exist to not have to deal with this BS.
You need to lie to the judge under oath to do it. There simply aren't consequences, but it is very much illegal.
Wrong. They try to filter out people who know about jury nullification, but the act itself is not illegal, as you do not have to have the knowledge to accidentally do it anyway.
That seems pretty unfair to filter out people who know about it, it's basically filtering knowledgeable people.
There's no basically, that's literally what it is
“They” being the state.
Just to be clear, one of the standard questions to ask a potential jury is "you must be able to render a verdict solely on the evidence presented at the trial and in the context of the law as I will give it to you in my instructions, disregarding any other ideas, notions, or beliefs about the law. Are you able to do this?"
If you know about jury nullification, with the intent of using it, then you need to lie under oath to get past this question.
The question was taken from the New Mexico US courts
Ahead of time, I could answer truthfully that I am able. I don't have to say "but when the time comes, I may choose not to for any reason"
I mean that may be "the truth", but it is purposely not "the whole truth". Which is a violation of the oath. The only way jury nullification is allowed is if a jury independently decides not to convict, because then jury is unbiased in deciding that the law is wrong or shouldn't apply.
Again, if you are selected for jury duty, and you already have decided you will ignore the law to avoid convicting the criminal, then there is no way you can make it past the selection without lying to the court.
I think then talks about jury nullification may be changed in such a way that no legal matter is discussed, but a jury is still inclined to act such that nullification happens, and that will be in accordance to the phrasing of the oath
Check the links in the main post. Your example question and many other variations of it are explicitly addressed there.
Afaik, in a court of law, the questions they ask matter. If it is a poorly worded question, it is the fault of the one interrogating. Don't answer your own version of their questions
Check the links in the main post. Your example question and many other variations of it are explicitly addressed there.
But in short, you answer truthfully, but stick to the letter of your answer and not what the judge thinks. There's nothing illegal about it.
Before being selected to be on the jury, the candidates are asked questions after being sworn in, that almost always include language that would disallow ideas of jury nullification.
I was a juror in two different trials and don't recall ever being asked about my beliefs on jury nullification. It's been many years though.
Edit: it seems like I was wrong. Supposedly, jury nullification is not legal in my US state.
Edit 2: perhaps it's still not completely settled in my state yet?
See links in top post. Jury nullification is legal, it is inherently part of how our justice system is structured. However, most judges and prosecutors would much rather prefer you didn't know your rights, and have outright lied in court about it.
Thanks. I hadn't read your link, but found articles giving conflicting case history in my state. It was a quick read of those articles though.
Why are people downvoting this? Jury nullification itself isn't illegal, but committing perjury definitely is, which is what Maalus is pointing out
Because Maalus keeps insisting on treating them as one and the same.
It's a TOS violation to discuss one of the very real and legitimate responsibilities you have as a juror?
Like, nullification is a thing because it's very much the absolute very very last defense against bullshit laws being used against people by a corrupt judicial system.
It's a moral imperative and something anyone sitting on a jury should understand and be willing to use.
What an absurd take, especially since it sounds like it's all the .world admins having it.
theres no faster way to get kicked out of the selection process than mentioning it.
if you want out of jury duty, mention jury nullification and you are out of there.
Unless the state has used all their strikes already.
... and in jail for contempt of court.
If all one had to do was utter 'JN' to get out of JD for free nobody even slightly inconvenienced would ever serve.
In reality, they dance around the fact. Ask you questions designed to get you to admit you have no 'valid' reason to nullify if you did, at which point you are either guilty of lying under oath or contempt of court.
You have to be firm in your convictions and hold your ground with a valid justification if you are going to try using nullification awareness to weasel out of jury duty because the judge will press, and press until they either think you're a true believer of a valid reason, or are just trying to shirk your duty.
Link me even one case of that happening.
If they think you even might support nullification, they don’t want you on the jury. They wouldn’t risk that you’re joking or trying to get out of serving.
Here's a particularly outrageous example. If you watch the entire video he goes on to describe a few more examples where the entire jury must be aware of what JN is but are still acting as jurors.
Those are cases of attempting to encourage specific juries to nullify. You’re not gonna be held in contempt for revealing you support jury nullification during selection.
Yes, you will. If you flat out say "I support Jury Nullification" during voir dire the judge will consider it flagrant contempt for the courts and deal with you accordingly.
What will actually happen is you will be asked a vague question that skirts the issue like "do you have any beliefs which would render you unable to convict or acquit based on the evidence alone?". If you answer in the affirmative an explanation will be demanded at which point what will your answer be? "I support jury nullification", same deal. If you have an actual belief that gets in the way like say you abhor the death penalty they will say things like 'case is regarding a traffic ticket, your concerns do not apply. any other reasons?'. Their goal being to show that any of your reasons either do not apply, or are insufficient in the judge's eyes for you not to do your duty. At that point you'd still be a juror and if you do nullify for whatever reason there's nothing they can do afaik.
You're dreaming if you think you wouldn't be punished for praising jury nullification in front of a judge and an entire slew of potential jurors during voir dire, when someone was handing out fliers outside the court building was convicted despite no court being in session, no actual juror receiving the pamphlet, and it held on appeals.
TBH you want evidence, the evidence is the court system still functioning because if what you said was true it would collapse in on itself.
Source? Cause this is some wild shit.
Jurors cannot be punished for an incorrect verdict in the USA (where a potential trial would be held if the guy is caught).
It's likely not actually a TOS violation, that person commenting is almost certainly talking out of their ass, likely to try and push their own agenda and make people comply.
Hey, only God may judge us!
Apparently.
Also crooked courts, ostensibly.
Only god can judge the rich, haven’t you heard?
Like the lives of those cut short by denying treatment so CEOs and shareholders can make more money?
Oh, fuck off. If God exists and actually cared, he/she/they would have "judged" the guy a long time ago for introducing needless suffering and cruelty.
Is a great argument for jury nullification. Because that will allow for god to decide the shooters verdict.
I mean, needless suffering and cruelty are kinda that god's bag...
That's why I added "and actually cared" :)
god is the most cruel entity in the entirety of the bible. kills the most people, causes the most suffering. how anyone can read that book and come away with a positive view of that beast is unfathomable.
I agree, but that wasn't quite the point I was trying to make.
The moderator was on a moral superiority high-horse by suggesting that "only God may judge" a guy who served as the judge for other's lives through complacent inaction and encouraging policies that put personal gain over humanity.
The only way that argument wouldn't have been hypocritical is if he agreed that God was a cruel bastard, and I don't think that was the case.
ahh yep, great points.
God judged and sent an assassin if we’re gonna play the whole believe in god game
If god is omnipotent, everything that happens is a result of his judgement.
Omnipotent, omnipresent, and benevolent, yes.
Benevolent is very debatable gestures widely at genocide and children dying of cancer
Indeed.
Note that I'm not claiming anything, just pointing out the traditional philosophical parameters of what-is-or-isn't-'god'.
Even going by their own books calling god benevolent is a stretch
Which - oh that god. Yes. That one is particularly, um, violent.
I’m referring to the abrahamic one…. I don’t know enough about Hinduism or other religions that have gods to have an opinion on them.
It is impossible for a being to be omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent given the amount of suffering in the world. They can only be two of the three at most:
Omnipotent + omniscient = Knows about evil, can stop it, but chooses not to.
Omnipotent + benevolent = Can do something about evil and wants to stop it, is too oblivious to on a large scale.
Omniscient + benevolent = Knows about evil and wants to stop it, is powerless to do anything significant about it.
Yeah, that's the way most people see it.
As it happens, people don't generally talk about it very much. For some reason.
If they're believers it's because god is "good" no matter what he does or allows to happen.
Only God may judge us? Which God exactly, you giant fucking DIPSHIT?
My inbox is quite a ride. I keep seeing insults in it and then realise it's not meant for me
Only god may judge us? Sure, which is why god sent a fucking assassin.
Don't forget the genocides. god enjoys a genocide
This comment chefs kiss
🚨🚩🚨🚩🚨🚩🚨
Cool, no need to go to court, since judges can't judge us.
Or mods. They can't do that, either.
Banning people for encouraging continued violence is one thing, but banning people for encouraging others not to imprison someone is actually ridiculous, regardless of their actual guilt.
"only God may judge us"
It's okay, as an atheist, I only recognize the moral authority of humankind, so judge away.
More seriously speaking, PTB. It would be one thing if the justification was "We REALLY do not want any legal trouble and we are just not equipped to take on any challenges, so we're playing it safe", but "i consider human life sacred"? They can fuck off.
Human life is sacred, which is why I'm celebrating this POS no longer being able to abuse the sick to make a few extra bucks.
Also, WTF does the mod think "jury nullification" is? Wouldn't he be against all jury trials? You'd think he'd support nullification if he really believes only God may judge us...
I know, I'm trying to make sense of the rantings of a True Believer.
And reading the shit they post, they're judgemental as all hell.
I wouldn't be surprised if this dust-up loses this fool their mod powers on LW.
Time to start working jury nullification into every comment I make no matter how unrelated it may be.
Remember to report your comments after posting them
Time for old forum signatures to come back.
Put it in your bio.
They keep claiming all these things against the TOS yet you can read that and none of it's in there. I don't know what it is about these mods but they sure seem to be trying to push their own agenda.
Remember how the ![email protected] mods kept pushing for months the propaganda bot from a pro-Zionist and very rightwing (so much so that their definition of a Rightwing news media was pretty much only the Far-Right ones) organisation trying to tell everybody which news to trust and which to not trust?
Also, curiously and back some months ago when I was making anti-Zionist posts in my Lemmy.world account, all of a sudden I started getting e-mails on the account I used to register on Lemmy.world from an Israeli organisation doing "Education about Israel" courses and they knew not just my e-mail but also the country I lived in (the e-mails were in my native language) even though I didn't share my email on any posts.
I blocked that bot ages ago, is it still doing its annoying as all fuck thing or did they give up on it?
After a mod insisted that the .world admins would demod them if they removed the bot and reinstate it anyway, someone pinged an admin who was like ‘what? no.’
After that a poll was held, and the kill it option won.
For people interested
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/29791336?scrollToComments=true
Funny to go through that post now that the bot was killed by popular vote and see commenters adamantly insisting that it was 1% of users who wanted it gone.
Oh, definitely
Honestly, it felt like a bunch of the pushback was someone just super proud of the bot they made lol. How could their perfect bot ever be bad??
Any idea where the poll is?
If you look for "poll" in that community you should be able to find it
Found some meta posts, but not the actual poll itself. Oh well, was just idle curiosity
Haha, this seems typical of the absolute clusterfuck that is .world.
They eventually gave up on it.
They gave up, took a while though
Around the time they elections were finally over.
Still love the mods of news banned a bunch of people that were raising criticism of the shitty bot, and then the admins just ignoring it when asked about it.
_we're looking into it _
I was questioning a certain mod why they banned someone for TOS violations but left up the offending comments and they were confused why anyone would question them about it.
Like if something is that bad you ban and remove it but they thought it was better to use as an example.
Simply put they just use it as their go to excuse.
Also, isn't lemmy.WORLD supposed to be a worldwide instance? I can discuss jury nullification as much as I want because I'll never be in the US jury. From my point of view, if I discussed jury nullification and got banned for it, I would treat that as a quite aggressive restriction of free speech.
From https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
so trying to prevent people knowing about is is more akin to trying to prevent people from knowing what rights they have?
Imagine describing the denial of medical care to thousands in the name of profits as a "mistake".
What a clown!
Hold the fuck up, now they have secret terms of service?
Based on past behaviour, the .world ToS generally gets modified to justify whatever actions they've taken AFTER they've already taken it.
The lemmy.world terms of service are not exactly a work of clear legal craftmanship. I don't always think it's a bad thing to change the TOS to match this situation that just came up, so that we'll have a consistent policy written down that everyone's had time to look over. But it's clearly been thrown together by a bunch of amateurs who are, for some reason, cosplaying as a mini-Facebook with all the mode of speaking and fake professionalism that entails.
That part sounds very lawyerly. Then the rest of the document is clearly a wiki that's been edited by a variety of volunteer admins as time goes on as different situations come up, with random pieces of general internet advice intermixed with what the rules of the site are, not clearly separated into which one is which.
Those are all good advice. Will I get banned for violating them? If I consistently downvote a user I don't like, or if I don't show the respect I desire to receive? Or if I'm trolling, and someone doesn't find it funny?
Do I just need to intuit that if I use multiple accounts to make fake downvotes, I'll be banned, but if I just consistently downvote another user when I see them, I won't be? The whole reason for having a TOS is so that users, and admins, won't need to intuit things like that.
Then there's this. Wait for the end, there's a punchline:
Well, that seems perfectly clear. Any graphic war footage is prohibited, except war footage. That's allowed.
It sounds lawyerly to a layman, but they’re defining lowercase words, which is not a thing (no offense intended). It looks like they tried to copy a legalistic style without understanding the point of writing in that style
Yeah. It's imitating the form of a legal document for reasons of pure pretense.
it sure as fuck ain't in it today, 5 dec 2024.
(A second secret ToS?)
First TOS is Star Trek. Second TOS is Terms Of Service.
Third TOS candidates, hmmm.
Any number of possibilities, really!
Yeah its called whatever the fuck a mod wants to make up whenever the fuck they want to make it up. See some of the main mods in politics and world news.
As of an hour or so ago, it's a bannable offense to misspell Palestinians.
Sounds like some corpo shit
Yes but they think that's a good thing
Yes but unfortunately they want to be the fediverse to people. Still waiting for their lemmy replacement sublinks to happen or get dumped
Ok, I wasn't really that surprised when a bunch of users who were calling for more murder were getting their comments deleted. That's a bit much and users need to know how to be more vague with their threats, especially with web crawls recording and indexing everything we say online...
But censoring the discussion of a real legal process is crazy. Well, I've made a few comments regarding jury nullification. I'll report if they get deleted.
edit: It's been about 20 hours and none of my Jury Nullification comments have remained. I have a feeling that the .world mods figured out that that discussion was fine or the deleted comments has other reasons to be deleted.
Fuuuuuck I have to change instances again...
Anybody got a recommendation?
Join us on dbz0! I just migrated yesterday and already love it here.
It's pretty dope to be part of a community that's pro piracy.
Just looked it over and immediately applied. Big fan of the vibe. Looking forward to adding my cultural and biological distinctness to your own.
Buddy you gotta at least take me to dinner first.
One of us! One of us!
Is there a way to quickly migrate communities you follow?
Yes, you can export your settings (including subscriptions) from your settings panel in the Web UI
That’s awesome!
Not that I can see.
Yes, you can export your settings (including subscriptions) from your settings panel in the Web UI
How do you migrate? So sick of the libs of .world
in your settings page is an export button, which lets you download your subscriptions and block list, which you can then import into a new Lemmy account on a new instance.
Thank you so much!
No prob, hope you find a good instance to call home :D
You just make an account on another instance. I think there is a way you can migrate sub/block lists and such but I didn't bother so I couldn't tell you how.
ShitJustWorks or dbZer0?
Thanks. I'm going to check them both out.
I had been thinking about moving to dbzero for a while. Might see if I can move my data tomorrow!
Commenting here to remind myself to possibly migrate
I came back on my new account to help remind you.
Can you migrate or gotta redo settings etc all over again?
Lemmy has an export / import function now
My friend. Between this and the book links above, you are dropping the hits out here lol. Thank you!
If you feel like going for a hat trick - happen to have a link to a straight forward and non-"newsy" copy of the video?
Your wish:
https://web.archive.org/web/20241205013152/https://streamable.com/2e8p4v
Fuck yeah. This is what the Internet is for, this stuff should be the easiest thing. Cheers!
That'll be pretty useless if most of their communities are lemmy.world communities, it's not a good idea to divorce an instance but still participate and be dependent on their communities, unless you're willing to obfuscate your activity with alts that aren't connected to you. Otherwise they'll just ban you from those communities anyway.
Also be warned, it doesn't take your post history, or even saved posts with you, if you want saved posts you have to bring them manually, and you can't take post history with you at all.
Probably not a big deal for the majority of people. Just link your old profile in your bio if you want to keep your "reputation"
Also a "reputation" on the internet is worth the paper it's printed on.
Which is to say no one prints these things.
Reputation can just be "recognized". I remember probably between 25 and 50 usernames here, most of them for good reasons, it's good to be able to recognize them even if they move instances
Saved posts will probably be a bigger deal since people saved them for a reason.
Also I did mention bringing history with you because spiteful admins can wash your history away when you can't bring it with you. If you could claim and reassigned ownership of the federated posts and comments they'd only be able to wash it away from the communities they moderate.
How many saved posts do people have on average?
I'm not sure, I know that on this account I have over 100. On Lemmy.world I probably have way more. I have 40 on pawb.social. I have a lot here though. Much less on the others since I use those accounts less but I still have a handful on all the others.
https://lemm.ee is generalist, second biggest instance, cool admins, federated with almost everyone
Lemmy.zip is a bit more techy, but very transparent: https://lemmy.zip/post/27236300 also federated with almost everyone
If you look for instance defederated from hexbear and lemmygrad, there is https://sopuli.xyz/ and https://discuss.online/
https://reddthat.com/ is nice too, but disables downvotes
Other than occasional downtime from expired certs been loving
sfd.orglemmy.sdf.orgOr ttrpg.network
Don't you mean https://lemmy.sdf.org/ ?
Yes thank you
Yeah its a great instance, would recommend!
and doesn't federate with lemmy.ml either, which is good considering that at this point it's basically lemmygrad lite and also has extreme power tripping.
Still managed by a single admin?
The number of users is one factor, but hosting a 3800 monthly active users like ![email protected] has other implications
![email protected] has quite a few threads with mods being upset that communities pages cannot be accessed for a month, and that instance has 2 active admins
Sir or Madam, how dare you!
I mean, fair point, but counterpoint: gesticulates wildly at 20 years of online presence :D
In addition to Dbzer0 (which is a superb instance), Slrpnk.net also welcomes anarchists :)
Discussing an actual legitimate part of the law is a no no on lemmy.world
That's insane lol. They also get mad when you stand outside the courthouse and hand out pamphlets about it, wonder if this fool works in the system.
lemmy.ml gonna ride this for a month lmao
It was pretty well known before this that .world are liberals.
The mods there were always on a power trip if you said the “wrong” thing.
lol like you need the ammo to talk about how your instance is garbo
Good news, guys! The lords of lemmy.world are looking out for you, deciding for you what you are and are not allowed to discuss. I'm happy we have them, keeping us safe.
I think I will probably defederate my little contributional section of Lemmy from LW. I want to take some time to think about it, but this seems so overtly hostile to the principles of what a good fediverse citizen should be doing that I think it's better to start to actively refuse to cooperate with them.
Bold move, I haven't considered it as quite a few communities I contribute to are only on LW, maybe I should ask to move them
Lemmy.world should compare its TOS to the law before being abandoned.
Realistically it's their right to not platform specific things (including jury nullification) if they want to. It's allowed to forbid talking about certain subjects on a website, though obviously whether the users stay is up to them.
Jury nullification isn't legal, it just has no consequences. You can't be punished for a "wrong" verdict and the person cannot be tried twice. But as a juror you are asked if you know what jury nullification is / if you are going to do it, so you basically have to lie under oath to be able to do it.
Anything that is not illegal is legal.
No consequences doesn't mean it is legal.
You don't seem to understand the legal system. Unless something is explicitly stated as a violation of the law, it is legal. Jury nullification is not listed as an illegal act, hence it is legal. There is no in between, as you seem to think there is.
You don't seem to understand what being under oath means. Breaking an oath is explicitly stated as a violation of the law. They just cannot tell if you knew or not. But they will remove you from a jury if you talk about nullification with the other jurors. Break an oath by lying about something provable and get it proven and see what happens then and how legal it is.
There is a difference between jury nullification and answering under oath. They are not the same act, you seem to have conflated the two. It is possible to engage in jury nullification without knowing the concept exists, and that would be perfectly legal.
https://fija.org/library-and-resources/library/jury-nullification-faq/is-jury-nullification-legal.html
So you established that lying under oath is illegal. So the knowledge of how jury nullification works and answering that you have no idea / intention to do it when you do is illegal. So now in the context of this thread - calling people to knowingly lie under oath and nullify the jury is illegal. You even called it "naughty stuff". So stop being a pedant and saying "oh but people might not know about it and do it" yeah, they can. Doesn't mean someone spreading the info on how to do it and encouraging it isn't calling for a crime to be committed.
I have been to jury duty multiple times AND I was never asked about it while under oath. It was discussed but explicitly not encouraged. Hell one time the judge made every one of us potential jurors in the room say removed under oath with the penalty of perjury if you refused. Being in a room full of people squirming over that is something I will never forget. It was a murder case and the defense was trying to prove that word had power over us and can make people emotional.
I love Lemmy dot world mods, every few weeks they have some weird drama and think they can patch it out with a change to the TOS
* admins, in this case.
Edit: Not admins, my bad.
*Not an admin, the user is a mod. Look at their account on their home instance and you'll see they aren't an admin.
::: spoiler Image of their account page
:::
Calling out bad behavior from mods is good but please don't spread misinformation, intentionally or not. As it hurts the credibility of the claims.
Yes, I've edited all my posts and comments once I realised my error
Ah that's good, glad the information has been corrected. I'd also recommend editing the post title to clarify that it's a mod talking out of their ass, as opposed to something officially true.
I would have said, it's a bit worse when it's the admins doing it, but you have a point.
Can we migrate instances or do we just start a new account elsewhere?
New account. There is a way to back up your subscriptions, somewhere, but you can't "move" an account.
You can export your info from your existing account and import it on your new one.
Account -> Settings -> Export to a JSON file, then in the new instance after creating your new account Import it. It will remember your community subscriptions and block lists, but if people send messages to your old account there is currently no way to forward them to the new. You could put a message in your old account (Bio area I guess?) to let people know.
@[email protected] has some nice lists of instances to move to, if you haven't made a decision yet. Like lemm.ee if you want access to everything on the Fediverse - including hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml that I don't recommend but you do you - and is the #3 Lemmy instance by size, or sh.itjust.works (#4 instance) seems quite nice. Conversely, Lemmy.cafe (UK) or quokk.au (Australia), or dubvee.org are the only ones defederated from the big three tankie instances including even lemmy.ml, if you want that. Lemmy.ca for Canada, feddit.org German + English, lemmy.dbzer0.com for anarchism, Discuss.Online for USA, and ofc there are themed ones as well.
Here is a really nice website tool to help show you info about each instance: https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list.
https://feddit.org/post/5411829/3500674 if that can help, but your comment covered it
Jury nullification has always been a hot topic on Reddit, so of course it’s going to continue as a hot topic on Lemmy. The percentage of American Reddit and Lemmy users who know about jury nullification is doubtless at a statistically significant higher rate than the whole of the American public.
That said, you guys must know that not all people are comfortable with murder, even when it involves an asshole. And that is a good thing. We need compassionate people in the world. Compassion is cool, we need a measure of it tempering everything else.
That’s it. Just a reminder that people are gonna people. And a complete lack of surprise at yet another discussion involving jury nullification within these past 10yrs of Reddit/Lemmy.
I want to find a new home instance, just randomly picked this one when I signed up moving from reddit.
Anybody got any suggestions or one's to avoid?
https://lemm.ee is generalist, second biggest instance, cool admins, federated with almost everyone
Lemmy.zip is a bit more techy, but very transparent: https://lemmy.zip/post/27236300 also federated with almost everyone
If you look for instance defederated from hexbear and lemmygrad, there is https://sopuli.xyz/ and https://discuss.online/
https://reddthat.com/ is nice too, but disables downvotes
Reading this from lemm.ee right now! I'm also a big fan of https://sh.itjust.works/.
On Lemmy, everything is a bit leftist at the moment.
If by leftist, do you mean actually leftist, or do you mean that you think the profits from imperialism should trickle down to white people in the imperial core?
The leftist instances are: lemmygrad.ml hexbear.net and to a lesser extent lemmy.ml but the latter is federated with more instances
Discuss.Online is currently federated with hexbear.net, but there is an active petition to defederate from it.
Huh?
And where have you been silenced om this topic? Or someone else if that's the case.
Could you screenshot stuff because this was just illegible.
Personally I'd recommend picking an instance that at least has Hexbear and Lemmygrad blocked, as that removes 95% of the toxicity you'd see on the platform. You can check what an instance blocks by scrolling to the bottom of their main page and clicking the instances link.
Sopuli.xyz is a really solid medium sized general instance, with good admins and an updated lemmy.
Lemmy.cafe is a nice small instance (not much local activity, so you'll need to rely on the All view and your subscriptions for that one).
If you have affinity with Anarchism (or environmentalism or sailing the high seas), Slrpnk.net and lemmy.dbzer0 are both excellent.
But if you'd like a more themed instance that appeals to a particular interest, by all means go for that instead. https://lemmyverse.net/ or the instance finder tool at https://join-lemmy.org/ are good places to find one. :)
also @[email protected]
Unfortunately an individual blocking an instance only stops posts from those instances from showing up, but you can still see comments and responses from the users of the blocked instance.
Your instance is
fullydefederated fromthemLemmygrad.No it isn't.
Ah, quite right! My mistake.
Tbh Hexbear and Lemmygrad users aren't very toxic unless you go into their communities and post liberal cringe
You're a tankie, of course you don't see an issue with their behaviour. You were never the target of it.
When I first joined Lemmy, I made the same mistake.
I'm now on lemm.ee, which is quite a tolerant instance with none of the bullshit... at least not yet. .sdf is also a good instance (I have that as a backup account).
I think the only things that matter are connectivity and defederation. As long as you have a continuous healthy connection to them (no lag, etc) and they don't defederate from the rest of the fediverse you should be ok.
hexbear is objectively the best instance once you learn how to not be a liberal on there. best community, best vibes, best memes
I notice you've gotten suggestions to steer away from them because of toxicity. They're toxic to transphobes and imperialists. People who consider themselves on the left get absolutely enraged at being criticized morally from the left. Look behind anyone complaining about them and you'll realize they said some wild shit and got rightfully scorned.
World News is ban-happy, screw em.
John Oliver did an episode about jury nullification, IIRC. And it's funny how when you're on jury duty, they're not allowed to tell you about jury nullification, but they can't stop you from discussing or doing it when you're making your deciding. IMO they should be required to tell you, but as usual, those in power fear anyone outside the system having power of their own.
I caught one of those bans. No explanation, no nothing, and I've said far more inflammatory things than just "Jury Nullification"
It’s also important to understand the jury selection process! If you say you believe in jury nullification they’re not going to keep you around.
what might happen in the jury room, stays in the jury room
Really unfortunate this dipshit runs a relatively popular instance.
The root of the issue is that being an admin is hard work, with consistent time commitment, and it falls to whoever has enough spare time and just feels like doing it. So there's no real "standard" like there would be at a job. If you annoy the other admins, you're probably going to be gone, but other than that, they need you to be there, because finding other volunteers to take over for you is going to be difficult.
Here's what I don't understand: The social side of LW administration is clearly off the rails. I'm not even trying to say they're "bad" or power tripping or whatever. They're just amateurs jumping into what is at the best of times a difficult and neverending balancing act of good judgements, and it makes sense that they'd get it wrong sometimes. But how is the back-end admin team killing it to such a degree? I cannot imagine that running a service like lemmy.world is easy. So... how did they manage to attract people who can succeed at the objectively hard challenge of keeping the whole thing humming along, pretty successfully, when the quality of people they can attract to the much less objective-qualification-needing side of leading the mod team and the social side of admin is so haphazard?
I never really thought about it before, but it's an interesting question now that I look at it.
Most people don't want to mod news and politics communities.
I'm totally with the post here condemning this but I wish some people in this comment section would act neutrally.
This is not a lemmy.world admin, who would actually speak on behalf of the whole instance (Not that those haven't done questionable shit either, but not to this level). It's a mod on community that happens to be hosted on lemmy.world, and they are citing the lemmy.world ToS in bad faith. Just like a corrupt cop will think of some bullshit law to arrest you if they wanted to abuse their power.
I for one do hope they get removed as a mod from the community by the admins, but strangely I see very little of that being discussed. Instead there's a bunch of prepossessed conclusions made about the users of lemmy.world, which shouldn't be a surprise that the largest instance, isn't a monolith, and people don't join it for political affiliation unlike some instances. The fact the mod is at times not even receiving a single upvote should be clear that everyone is disgusted by this.
Lemmy.world users need to see this thread and this corruption from a mod on our instance, so that we can pressure them into being removed. Since communities are there also for people outside of the instance, this is a net positive for the fediverse itself if they get kicked out.
But this kind of circle jerking over how much you dislike lemmy.world, you're drowing out the actually important information, and if the first thing someone sees when entering this thread is unfounded prejudice against them, they're going to ignore it and think less of you for it in return, creating a more hostile space for everyone that has to share it. I hope everyone here that does this is aware of that self-sabotage.
Welp, this here is one of the problems of having big, general instances. As any group gets too big you get decisions like this being made. Find your ideal neighborhood in the fediverse and don't make another monolith
You shouldn't talk about jury nullification because the first rule of jury nullification is you do not talk about jury nullification.
The last US presidential election was basically jury nullification.
Been planning on abandoned and setting up my own instance when I get settled. 2 weeks. Oh and BTW https://pdfupload.io/docs/0d380e9b
You can probably offer to help an existing nice instance like https://lemmy.cafe/ https://reddthat.com/ or https://discuss.online/
Nice link, I added to the OP
Flip the lever twice as the front wheels drive over the split. MULTI-TRACK DRIFTINGGG!!!
Plot twist:
Smiley guy is not you. The trolley is not moving at the start, but it'll start moving once smiley guy pulls the lever. What decides the path is a lazy arse AI saying 'left', 'right', 'put glue on pizza', etc.
And you know that the smiley guy will pull the lever. Because he did it over and over and over and over.
Look, fuck dotworld. Every fucking day there are posts on there crying about leftist instances, and urging everyone to defederate from .ml and hexbear. Meanwhile this is their moderation style: suppressing wildly popular opinion that threatens the liberal/capitalist status quo. They're already too big. Don't let them monopolize Lemmy like they want. Join almost any other instance.
This is dotML. Dotworld isn't great with their style of moderation, but ML is very much the same but for different boot they're licking.
Did I tell people to join .ml or hexbear?
No. It looks like you told people to "join almost any other instance." That's a strange reaction from Crabby. I guess they're just annoyed.
Lol yeah didn't notice the username.
Ya know, I feel the "every day" is a little overblown (hell maybe it isn't, I don't need receipts lol)...but yeah the way you phrased the rest of that is exactly what was itching in the back of my brain but that I couldn't put together quite yet and needed to hear. I'll get moved over somewhere else, thanks for the nudge.
Oh that's just another .world thing
Which post and which mod? I’m confused.
And there is your proof.
Lemmy.word is not your friend.
Is jury nullification instructions on how to build a bomb?
By far the most egregious authoritarian exposition of their evil.
The deep state needs social media influence to maintain disinformation monopoly. AI needs regulation for same purpose. The biggest politics, news and world news subs, need to be blocked, but they will just block real information soon enough anyway.
100% certainty there is a bot army patrolling new, and subscribed to https://lemmy.ca/c/endlesswar for instant downvoting. Lemmy has been group thinked harder than reddit has, because reddit has some free speech zones, even if zionism is sacred to admins.
Fuck the censors who think they can decide what others talk about!
Here's an animated explanation: CGP Grey's version - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqH_Y1TupoQ
Consider yourself judged, hypocrite!
People in the know know that behind the facade of Lemmy World the administration has acted either pretty abusively or pretty dismissive of the accusations against its abuse.
Looking for a new instance. Which ones do you guys recommend. And why?
My recommendations are sh.itjust.works or Dbzer0. There's plenty of other recs in the post though, feel free to browse
So uh.
If, say, hypothetically, a hypothetical shooter of a hypothetically monstrously terrible hypothetical person--let's say, hypothetically, a health care ceo--i would hypothetically be really considering my options in terms of what decision i would make about the case.
Give it a day or two for the LW admins to respond. Remember, they're not doing this as a full time job. This only happened today, and I would expect change on the instance to take more than one day.
Also most of the mods on LW only have one big community. Different communities will have different standards.
What are you talking about? The post is about a LW admin declaring that discussing jury nullification is grounds for banning. Did you mean to reply to something else?
Edit: Not admin, worldnews mod
They're not an admin, they're a community mod and they're talking out of their ass.
Right. I just realised that. So either they know something or they're making false claims and the admins need to remove him.
Willing to bet it's the ladder, this would be outlandish if true and would be kind of bad for lemmy.world.
(Not trying to be a dick just trying to help)
Latter*
Ladders are tall things you climb on.
That's a weird way to spell Palestinian
I believe that's a mod, not an admin.
https://fedihosting.foundation/lw-team/
Ah whoops. OK, mod making a declaration on behalf of the admin team, it looks like.
I'm not against jury nullification exactly, but for murder? I mean if he just kicked him in the nuts fine. But this guy was already getting sued by the DOJ, this kept us from learning what he knew (which, of course, may have been the actual point of the shooting).
i was asked to moderate anything that is illegal specifically mentioning "jury nullification" and "financially supporting" this has been changed now until a larger announcement is made
many admins and moderators at .world including myself are not american, i pray that the others who are angry at me and hope they consider there are more countries with laws that are different from them
you may disagree with my faith but i consider myself fair in my removal in this violation
when trump was shot i removed comments celebrating this violence when sinwar was killed i removed comments celebrating this violence so when this person is murdered i remove comments celebrating this violence
when users report these comments and those above me ask me to act on this topic i continue as i have for months in these communities
there was no good-faith and productive discussion to be had when you celebrate murder
how can you call others a tankie when you dance on graves as they do?
i have sympathy for the americans who are wronged by the man murdered but instead of violence maybe you consider reading a book to understand the world around you and be open to the power of faith to restore your love of humanity instead of parading violence
By who, pray tell? Because at the moment it seems like you're the only mod on the server doing so.
In which of these countries is it illegal to discuss jury nullification in the US?
Although you took actions that are based on a version of the rules that nobody else has access to?
Again, you're the only one acting on this topic. Who is asking you to do so? Right now it seems like you're being hung out to dry.
Weird, I'm seeing a ton of productive discussion in this thread
Because that's not the definition of tankie. Dancing on graves is not an aspect of any particular ideology.
Stop trying to push your fucking religion on everybody else. You're the mod of c/News, not c/Christianity.
an admin/community manager were involved in the discussion with me and other moderators
they will be making an announcement on the issue i don't know when i followed the direction from above to act on the reports and then to stop acting on them
the announcement will include the information
i do not know where the server is?
the version of the rules is the terms of service? https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
other mods removed posts and comments also the admins site banned people!
because you are discussing me? explain to me how can you have good-faith discussion of premeditated murder?
tankies kill without any respect for law and you are here encouraging this type of murder outside law and government how is it not the same?
you can read whatever book you want and what faith you desire
those that have no faith and do not read it is no surprise you become a murder cheering tankie
ask yourself why do the propaganda instances like .ml hexbear and lemmygrad support this and we are standing for civility?
Holy shit, you're still a mod?!? There's a difference between having faith and casting judgement on everyone else. Really fucking funny and ironic in this context.
You can have productive conversations on any topic. "Productive" here is an opinionated response, I've seen plenty of discussions involving the CEO roles/individuals and how harming the public might be viewed on a broader term since these companies have been documented doing just that. Interesting conversations diving into politics, class, morality, our justice system, etc etc on all these posts. It's unfortunate I have to enter into a meme community to have those though.
I thought only god could judge us you bloody hypocrite.
I was right, you're a fool. And you should not be a mod of any community. Especially when you're going on and fucking on about th TOS with contents that don't exist and oblivious to the content that is in there (like the server location).
From https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
Yes, and nothing in that ToS actually prohibits the behaviour you are complaining about. Do you know why ToS and similar documents exist? So everybody has the same expectations and guidelines, and we can clearly see when somebody has stepped over the line. You've now declared that the ToS is invalid, and we're being judged based on a new one that will be Coming Soon^TM^. That's where this entire situation crosses the line into abuse of power, because instead of being impartial and enforcing the rules, you're enforcing your personal likes and desires onto the rest of us. Ironic, for somebody who claims that only God can judge anybody.
What's so difficult to understand? We're having a discussion. The entire internet is having a discussion right now. Some of it is crap-tier, but that applies to any content online. Others are learning stuff, engaging and growing their minds. What exactly is bad-faith about this?
You keep using the term 'tankies'. Do you actually know what it means? None of the things you've ascribed to them thus far have any actual relevance to their ideology. And now I'm annoyed that you're making me defend them.
It is unrelated, as it has nothing to do with our ideologies and political beliefs.
Nice to know your opinion of atheists and agnostics. I'm fairly certain that that statement breaks some of the .world ToS. Also, when did you become this judgemental? Only god should judge, you know.
The entire bloody internet is supporting this right now. Even the major news outlets have had to change their tune and switch from focusing on the 'brutal horror' to discussing why everybody's cheering the executioner on. Why? Because this has transcended the bullshit political boundaries and made people realise it's class warfare. Fuck the culture wars. Want to make things better? Scare a billionaire tonight.
I’ve been searching around, not very in depth mind you, and I haven’t been able to find an instance of it being outright illegal in any western country. It ranges from being an accepted function of the jury, to being something that exists theoretically within the jury system but not being explicitly discussed, neither encouraged nor discouraged, in the the legal framework, to being not applicable at all because they don’t use juries at all.
Removing the US component to this situation and knowing that LW is hosted in the EU, I can’t find a single country that would impact the ability of people to discuss jury nullification on LW.
Again this is based on some cursory searches, so if I’m wrong and jury nullification is illegal in some EU country, please let me know.
Yeah...
I kind of want to know who the fuck said that, and how that person can be so uninformed that they think anyone ever mentioning a part of our legal system is always illegal...
Like, the only explanation is they read something years ago, never understood it, and are too over confident to spent 2 seconds to check.
That's not behavior you want in a mod and especially not an admin.
If one of the admins actually said that shit...
It probably really is time for a new instance.
And then Jesus came.
Don't be an ass and cherry pick when you have things like 2 Kings 2:23-25 to show you the grace and mercy of the lord's word.
"We are not American but we denounce all violence (except if it is done against American adversaries) and only allow posts from American favored media sources"
Did the CIA promise Lemmy.World admins green cards?
As a bribe or a punishment?
Bold to think they aren't already American citizens lolol
Glad it isn't my instance. A bullet for every CEO. Where's my ban? I'll go out as anything but a coward and I don't want anything to do with your cowardly instance.
You are a fool.
emoji display name always indicates that you are about to read some total shit