I'm from the Y'all zone. Is it offensive to call trans people y'all?
If anyone can find more pixels for me i would appreciate it.
Thanks y'all.
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If anyone can find more pixels for me i would appreciate it.
Thanks y'all.
I would have thought that “y’all” is even more so gender neutral and therefore less offensive/more accepted. It’s a contraction of “you all” right?
Y'all has become my goto nowadays, up in the northeast
The y'all zone is all zones apparently.
Honestly it’s just so useful. It should be the default.
I picked it up when I lived in Houston, but when I was bartending and stuff after returning to my home state, I’d use it heavily.
Interestingly, though, it made people think I was from another country entirely? Because in absolutely no other way do I sound even remotely southern. (I do use various non-American slang, but not with strangers) Was always a blast to have someone ask where I was from, and try to get them to pinpoint why they didn’t think I was local, when I was born 15 minutes from where the conversation was taking place :p
Yeah, I’m in the “you guys” zone and I say y’all, it’s always better received.
"y'all" fills a legitimately useful gap the English language has. Other languages have a word like this.
Edit: also something cool I just found out, some languages have a way to disinguish "we" (you and I), and "we" (me and the rest of us, not you). It's called clusivity and is missing from European languages. Many indigenous languages of the Americas and Oceania have this, as well as Vietnamese and northern dialects of Mandarin.
Not a gap in every dialect! "Ye" is another plural second person used in Ireland
Hear y'all hear y'all, Reggie King from o'er the holler brought pawpaw moonshine for the weddin'
And youse in Dublin.
Every dialect has a word for it. There's no gap.
The worst is when a language formally has a disambiguating word but then speakers all just decide to not use it.
Any examples of an equivalent in other languages?
I speak a small amount of French but can't think of one
"Vous" is the first one that comes to mind in french. But since it is also a more formal (and/or "respectful") version of "tu/toi", it can both designate a group of people or a single person, depending on the context (just like "you" in English). Sometimes people will use "vous tous" (literally "you all") to make this clear.
It is a little better than the "you" situation in English since if you are speaking with someone that is not using the singular form of "vous" to speak about you (which is basically anyone you are familiar with unless they are your boss or In-laws and kind of oldschool), it is instantly clear what they mean at least.
Spanish has "Ustedes" (except in Spain, they use "Vosotros/Vosotras")
There is also “you lot”
I’m from Australia and I’ve started calling all groups of people yall because it’s gender neutral… very unaustralian term, and I love so much the irony of iconic southern terms being used to support trans activism
I'm German and I use y'all all the time when speaking English. it's funny, most of my English is from the internet so it's the most crazy mix of english
Why bother with importing y'all when we already have yous (or youse depending on how you want to spell it)? Or you could just treat 'you guys' as gender neutral, it effectively is these days with how people use it.
Youse is too damn bogan for my taste
absolutely this
youse and torlet
Fair enough, it does have associations there. Pretty sure I'd toss y'all in the same basket though if I heard anyone trying to make it a thing...
As an Australian, why bother importing "y'all" when everyone is already "mate"?
I was going to say something similar, but thinking everyone is "cunt".
Yes, it's gender neutral.
Too right, mate.
Do we have yous/youse? According to my understanding that's technically not a real word yet, it's slang.
2nd person singular used to be thou/thee back in the middle ages, but it all eventually melded into you.
I feel like y'all is the newer American version of 2nd person plural, while yous/youse/yinz are the non-American English counterparts.
I have always used you guys in a gender neutral manner historically, but people occasionally got offended by that. So I started using y'all several years ago and it's been going pretty good. Although I did initially spell it like ya'll until someone corrected me on reddit 😅
You forgot "Yinz"
Yinz goin aht n abaht in dahntahn Picksburgh to watch da Stillers game?
Yinz is definitely a Scots thing
That's actually "you'uns" and despite being from the deep south I barely ever heard it growing up. Guessing you are from the south too
Yinz is a Pittsburgh and Pennsyltucky thing
Genuine question. What is the "tucky" in pennsyltucky? Is it somehow tied to Kentucky?
Yeah, it's the area south of Pittsburgh near WV, why is it called Pennsyltucky instead of Pennsylvirginia? No idea.
But, it's more of a "here be hillbillies" thing, especially when compared to the rest of the state.
Not just the area south - basically all the area in between the two cities. And yeah, it's basically like saying "once you're out of the cities, you might as well be in Kentucky."
Kentucky = Hicks
I was editing an Irish comedy recently which used "yinz" and "yiz" a lot.
Wow, this is news to me. How does a new word get the s to change to a z like that??
People where I am from call everyone "you guys" - men, women, trans, doesn't matter, everyone is just "you guys" even when it's a woman addressing a group of women.
The literal meaning isn't gender neutral, but in actual practice, it 100% is.
As for "y'all" or "you all", I don't see how it could possibly be interpreted as offensive to any gender.
"You People" is the one to be avoided
"howdy fuckers" is the opposite as it sounds bad on paper but in practice it goes over well (except with middle aged moms)
"G'day cunts" goes over either extremely well or extremely poorly, with no in-between
Ah the classic way to say hello in Australian.
Yeah I don't see that one going over well anywhere
What do you mean "you people"?
Dude is also situationally gender neutral. Saying "Hey dude" to a trans woman is misgendering her but exclaiming "Yo dude check this out!" or "Duuuude no way" is perfectly acceptable.
I'm a dude, you're a dude...
I think "we don't take kindly to y'all" to a trans person would likely be offensive. Beyond that though, you're probably okay.
"yall" is obviously not the problematic part of that sentence
I might as well double down while I'm here, "we don't take kindly" was too aggressive wording.
I meant something more neutral like "I think y'all are weird".
That way, the y'all is the problematic part. That was my point.
Nope, "y'all" is still not the problematic part
Okay, I'll bite. How is y'all not the problematic part when it's specifically referring to trans people in that case?
That certainly seems problematic to me.
Literally the entire rest of the sentence is the problematic part. "We don't take kindly to you", it doesn't matter if they say "y'all", "you all", "you people", "your kind", take your pick, it's not the problem with the sentence
I mean ... Thats just an all out threat with y'all acting as an exclusionary statement.
All in all agree with your point tho.
Unless you can ask a straight man how many guys he's slept with, it isn't gender neutral, no matter how resistant to this fact you are.
I don't see the issue with using the term "guys" in the plural when referring to a group regardless of sex. That would align with the definition of the word. I'm pretty sure that's how they meant it.
E: the fact that neither of you give a shit about the people telling you the term isn't gender neutral, doesn't apply to us, and that we don't feel comfortable with you using it to speak to or about us says it all. No matter how much mental gymnastics you do to convince yourself otherwise you are the ones choosing to be the problem instead of actually listening to others and showing some basic respect. It's an easy fix, too - all you have to do is give a minimal fuck about others.
This actually is relevant, but wasn't part of your initial statement. If you don't like people using the term to refer to you then people should absolutely make an effort to not use that term when referencing you.
Saying there's some mental gymnastics on my part is a bit of stretch, it's how the word is defined in the dictionary. All I needed was to read. There's no disrespect here, if you don't like it then using the term to refer to you would be disrespectful, but I haven't done so.
That's how people use it, whether you like it or not. I did not invent the language, but that's how people use it.
Saying "guys" on its own is also not the same thing as "you guys" in regions that do this.
You can shoot the messenger all you like but it is what it is and I have no power over how people in a region use a language, I am merely informing you of that fact.
Yall is the genderless southern hospitality greeting.
No bullshit no hate. Only yall
I've used y'all intentionally as a gender neutral term for years in the south.
Lately I've even seen "y'all means all" used as a pride slogan in the south.
Awesome! Thanks comrade.
This needs a line going up the Appalachians for the "You-uns" belt.
And somewhere there's "yinz".
I was just about to point out that the map is missing a small "yinz" enclave around Pittsburgh/Johnstown
Ok three people have spelled it ,"yinz" here now, is that a thing?
Yep! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yinz
And people who use the term are yinzers
I mean, neither "you" nor "all" is a gendered term in any way
as a trans person, I'm not offended by y'all in the slightest
This statement has strong Bilbo " I like less than half of you as well as you deserve" energy
(No hate, it just struck me as funny)
I lowkey always found that to be a southern type of insult, I could hear Steve Spurrier saying it
Y'all is the opposite of offensive for trans people. I lived in the south for a while, and I now use y'all specifically to be inclusive. I wouldn't say "you guys" is offensive to trans women, but I would say for me and likely other trans women it briefly brings to mind being misgendered in the past, so I would call it a small kindness to ube as gender neutral as possible.
Yup, I specifically use y'all and recommend it to people (like my parents) to replace gendered phrases, and I'm not from the y'all zone.
Still up for debate, "dude" and "hun/hon".
*I'm a trans woman also
As a cis male, I've exclusively been called "Hun / Hon" by waitresses and gay men.
I've not been offended by any of them.
There's a hidden usage of "hon" from the history of the toxic trans communities message boards to mean "trans women who don't pass" and is used condescendingly. That usage is basically dead in the water and barely known outside of a pretty narrow sliver of the queer community but it can still get you a side eye in some places.
Oof, noted.
I'll keep that in my head as something to watch for
I feel like I have watched in real time as Y'all has gained usage up in the Canadian Queer community.
I am old enough to still regard "hon" as demi hostile but "dude" seems to be drifting more and more gender neutral. At heart we may all just be ninja turtles all the way down
Thanks comrade
I thought y'all was just a gender neutral term combining you and all.
How would it be wrong or offensive to refer to refer to trans person as "y'all"? Genuine question.
"Y'all not welcome in these parts"
You got me there.
I'm not from the south and use "y'all" all the time. Find it very useful for filling in a gap that English has and slightly faster than saying "you all". Its gender neutral in my opinion.
Never once thought of it as offensive.
Y'all is gender neutral,
doso I imagine it's fineEdit: typo lol
We're talking about Southern US pronunciation so much that I read your comment from "do I" onwards as if it was being spoken like a Southern Belle.
I'm from New Jersey and have never heard anyone unironically say "youse guys". Side note we also don't call it "Joisey".
I always thought youse guys was a new york city thing.
Youse guys wanna play stickball?
How you fuckers doing, eh?
GUUYS!!
I'm from "you guys" but I've lived in "y'all" and now I'm forever team "y'all," regardless of where I'm living.
It's the best export from the south, except maybe Texas brisket and pecan pie.
Y'all reminds me of the bible belt. I'm not transgender but I am queer and now and then it makes me uncomfortable.
Guess I'll have to ask the person I'm addressing in the future.
Thanks comrade.
Y’all actually has gained particular traction in the north through the queer community. Most trans people I know use y’all even if their geographic location doesn’t indicate they should
Yous in Scotland is great to wind up Proper English speakers. If they whinge they get a y'all
We are afraid to use common greetings now? How about we all refer to each other as "carbon units"?
The online rainbow police could get offended, you know.
I say "all of y'all" and make a point to really emphasize the "'".
You say "of?"
I thought it was basically all y'all
Or all'o'y'all
Why? I am not living in the us but it's a useful phrase.
Second person never has a gender in English. Saying "you" should also be fine, or "thee" if you feel like getting your quaker on.
Special requests notwithstanding - the platinum rule here is just to accommodate whatever you reasonably can.
Youse LOL, almost lost it when I heard it one time
All y'all never heard youse before?
Y'all = you all, which is gender neutral.
Also that map is missing the Chicagoland y'all exclave.
I'll throw in "folks" as another gender neutral option. I say "you folks" all the time, especially in professional contexts. I'm not from the South, but I have family there so y'all is a part of my vocabulary. I use it in more informal situations pretty commonly.
We need a better second person plural in English. Y'all works but its a big language gap
Hey...
Folks
Friends
Comrades
Everyone
People
Pals
You motley crew
Weirdos
Siblings
Fuckers
..how you doing, wanna go to the movies?
(this is by no means exhaustive list, the point is there are plenty of existing and perfectly acceptable alternatives, pick one, or more, and get comfortable with it)
I've heard people say "yous" before.
I know. I hate it. I don't know why
Can "y'all" be singular, since there is "all y'all" for plural?
When talking about a group but only one individual of the group is present you can still use y'all.
No, you is the singular; y'all is the plural.
All y'all works because you might say "All of you all", I suppose.
Having exported myself from the deep South to Yankee land, "Y'all have a good one!" never fails to brighten the day of someone working a cash register.
In general, folks up here really like southern politeness. They think sugar wouldn't melt in my mouth. I get stopped in stores to talk all the time. Pretty frequently, they just give me a discount. I thought Yankees were supposed to be rude, but they're actually really nice in public.
ITT: Yinzers
Am I the only one who actually looked for more pixels for this guy?
Anywho, here you go my guy:
Edit: hmmm, Lemmy seems to be compressing it. Here's a link.
Trust me there are many more areas that say y'all
There are pride buttons that say Y'all means all.
As a non-english speaker, I appreciate «Y'all» 'cause it always bug me the absence of a way to reference more than one individual in English.
What you mean «You» is used to reference both one person and a crowd? English is fuck up.
Maine I think loops back around to y’all territory…
As someone that grew up in y'all territory in Kansas, it's wildly easy to connect to people from Maine!
Fwiw, second person is fine as long as there's no misgendering... It's like calling someone by their name
Is guys really needed after youse?
The guys is needed where there's no 2.pl pronoun to distinguish from individual you, but youse fixes that
Only if you man in it a "you people" kind of way - like y'all need to stay with your own kind- or something like that.
I bought a shirt once in Pittsburgh that says, “Yinz is a gender-neutral p pronoun”
I’m on the border of y’all and you guys
Your comment gives me the urge to create other maps you can comment on so that I can triangulate your position.
I am open to the opportunity
Nah you just replace you with youse. Example:
Happy birthday to youse, happy birthday to youse. Happy birthday this fucking guuuuy! Happy birthday to youse!
Where does this put Scott the Woz?
I'm from Maryland and I said "howdy" in New York and I got roasted by the CVS clerk for 2 full minutes. And then I said "do y'all have Tylenol" in hopes that she could point me in the direction. Another minute of her roasting me...
Roast her back
It was too late. I was hung over as fuck anyways.
Should be fine 👍
I have a VERY southern friend. He once said "y'all all".
Where's my fellow "yo'd'll"s at
Your what now
Oh....you know 😏
If you live on the line, or move north/west, it's now "you all".
Y'all left y'uns out of the map
What?
Out here in the you guys zone making yall happen. 10 years and you guys will be nearly gone cause people get tired of having to ubsubltly tack on "and gals" or "gals and nonbinary pals".
It feels like a standard case of it's fine until it isn't. I wouldn't worry about it and only drop it from your vocabulary if you notice it causing harm.
I call everyone brah 🤙
I can't speak for anyone else, but you seem to be missing the biggest issue with this map: saying "you guys" excludes anyone but those identifying as male. You may not mean it that way, but I've had women be offended when I used that in the past, and I wouldn't like being referred to as a "gal" in a group of women. It's just not accurate.
Personally, for a gender-neutral way of addressing a group, I like "you folks".
☝️🤓 - HR sounding ass
Empathy and caring how others want to be referred to is HR?? Lol, wild...
Kamala lost. The idpol of kinder language is a trashfire and a failure because the assumption that "empathy" is a shared quality among humanity is wrong and "bloodlust" is actually far more common, while complete ignorance and anti-intellectualism and accusations of "overthinking" prevail over both as you can see in the programming.dev techbro below.
Talking about how language influences views of marginalized or minority groups is useless when most people can barely even read more than a paragraph without bitching because they never developed reading stamina.
As for those who make these conversations necessary in the first place - they will always use the meanest word they can and all this has done is fed fuel to reactionaries.
There are far more important real fights to fight, like access to HRT and surgeries for people suffering from gender dysphoria - a crippling disorder, before you metropolitan libs start going on about "trans-femmes" and "masculine gendered language"