TIL it’s the right of women of all ages to go topless wherever men can in the states of Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, Kansas and Oklahoma, including all their cities.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/topless-women-win-big-colorado-city-drops-ban-n1056701Open linkView original on lemmy.dbzer0.com1129
Comments281
In Washington state, you can just be nude. As long as you are not doing anything to be "obscene".
Oregon too, last I knew at least.
This is, in fact, what makes Portland's annual naked bike ride event possible.
Seattle's as well.
Naked siblings, through and through.
What are you doing, step-city?
Whipping out my Oregon
Yes, Portland had decriminalized public nudity if participating in a peaceful protest, while not engaging in sexual conduct, and away from certain restricted areas like parks and schools. The annual naked bike ride is an organized peaceful protest that chooses its route appropriately as to not encroach on any areas where public nudity would otherwise be prohibited.
Same goes for NY.
I know this because at the college I worked at, a city public safety officer walked up to a young man who was sunbathing on campus thinking it was a woman, and told him to put his shirt back on or be charged with indecency or something. The school was outraged and had a shirtless demonstration march around town.
Did a I mention it was an all girls school?
I found this map: https://gotopless.org/topless-laws The religion behind this site seems kind of strange.
Extraterrestrials Created All Life On Earth
Let's Build An Embassy To Welcome Them
Thats a more plausible explanation than what the big religions offer.
Just a different version of the same explanation
I like to think life crashed onto earth innitially from an astroid. Then life evolved from single cell organisms into.......this.
Coincidently enough, life crashing onto earth on an astroid is exactly what the black suit symbiot was in the spiderman comics. After Spiderman got rid of it, it bonded with Eddie Brock to form Venom!
Oh lol, it's the Raelians.
You guys stumbled upon Raëlism! A cult that originated in France. I have firsthand experience. I met a "Raelian Guide" at a convention and gave a presentation on his religion. They mention the topless stuff, and they're also anti-genital mutilation. But they also wish to reclaim the Swastika as a symbol of peace and love.
During this presentation, the guide, in talking about reclaiming the Swastika, "it was traditionally a symbol of peace and love, but you all wouldn't learn about that in our Jewish controlled education system. " (Word for word what he said in front of 100~ people)
They're, uhh, Nazis.
Im all for reclaiming the swastika, but you lost me at "the Jews control.."
I’ve used this site in the past but never noticed they were out of their damn minds
Maybe they LOST their mnds?
There is a gallery, for research purposes.
Praise be
Eh? I have definitely gone around topless in NY a couple times and wasn't bothered over it. To be fair, it was Pride. To be extra fair, it was almost 100 and everybody was dying. I do remember a couple times on the news where they would have to remind the police in NYS that it is legal on a couple roasting summers. I am definitely not the best at keeping the bits well covered in general. Still far better up here than when I used to live in Texas.
What's an all-girls school? Like what do they do when a man applies?
Might be starting to dox myself but they have a separate campus that is mixed.
Free the boobies
It's really just free the nipple, which highlights how ridiculous it is. Even more so when you see images where male nipples have been pasted over female nipples, which would theoretically make those images ok.
I'm getting flashbacks to Tumblr's "female-presenting nipples" censorship rules during the porn ban.
Also legal in Ontario, Canada. A woman was arrested for walking around topless in hot weather. She was finned by police but topless men in the area were not. Ontario courts eventually rulled this was discriminatory but the provincial government did not appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada so the ruling only applies in Ontario.
Yeah despite there being a law against discrimination, the cops are obviously going to use their subjective view of things like lewd behaviour to charge topless women where they wouldn't men.
That's literally the law Ontario courts rulled cannot apply to topless women as it is discrimination.
Yeah. Shit, isn't it?
ACAB
Oklahoma is very much not Ontario
Take Oklahoma off your list because in Tulsa they will still arrest any woman who does this. Apparently they refuse to follow that law that was passed.
I know because the city made big fucking stink about it when Tulsa women started to go topless when it was found to be legal. So they passed and ordinance making it illegal within city limits at public spaces so practically everywhere.
Have there been any lawsuits about that? Surely someone has done it so they could then sue the city right?
I bet they would charge them with "Creating a public disturbance."
That's what the cop who told me in Indiana, "Sure, you can wash your car at a public car wash while having a pistol in view; it's not illegal. But I'll arrest you and put you in jail for 'creating a public disturbance' in less than a heartbeat". And, no, he wasn't joking.
Yeah, this is effectively illegal in every conservative state.
It's because y'all qaeda hates women.
de facto vs de jure
It's also legal in British Columbia, Canada and it has been since 2000
Happy about this. A scant few hours ago I had an over the fence conversation with my neighbor and neither of us were wearing shirts. It's the ideal way to live.
We need to switch from our current American view that all nudity is sexual. If you see a someone naked doesn't automatically make it sexual!
I mean, sure. But also need to switch from our current US American view that sexuality is bad
People need to spend a little time at a nudist resort. They'd learn real quick that naked isn't sexual.
Idk, I feel like for some people it is and for some it isn't.
Like tbh I'd be worried about going to a nudist resort because (despite the trope that "only people you don't want to see go there") if I saw a woman I was attracted to I'd be worried that it would be...uh...evident, and that seems awkward and idk if it's like, allowed to become tumescent even if it is an uncontrollable biological response (never stopped anyone from being mad it happened before, so..)
Idk, if I saw a woman walking down the street tits akimbo, I'd definitely be more inclined to think "ayy hell yeah" in my head than not, even if it happened daily, I can't just stop being attracted to women, ya know?
Not that I think she shouldn't, it's her right and I wouldn't complain about seeing them, but I can't control my uncontrollable biological responses of "attraction" nor what happens naturally when "attracted," if you will (though outside of nudist resorts, it's hidable enough because clothes.)
Boiling it down to a purely biological process is oversimplified. Unless you are getting aroused whenever you see an attractive person, simply removing clothing isn't/shouldn't be a variable. You've been socially conditioned to think of all nudity as sexual. Spending time in a nudist area is somewhat about decoupling nudity and sex. (yes there are those that go for the sex, and it's kinda the leading reason.) I think the point of being human is all about control over ones self and environment. Hell humans have spent more time on this earth walking around naked than clothed. Our current views on nudity and sexuality is relatively new due to social, political, religious, and practical reasons. (you don't want someone nude preparing large amounts of food or people in hospitals being needlessly naked for obvious reasons.) Ultimately I'm saying if you are worried about being in a public nudity area and not being able to separate the other human from their body/attractiveness, it might be something you should explore. So you can be more open to others in general.
I mean, yeah, I see an attractive (especially scantily clad or nude) woman, and I do indeed think "damn hell yeah" every single time. Yes. Been this way my entire life and I don't see an end in sight. I mean it's not like I'm gonna knock her over the head and drag her into my hut but will I look? Yeah. Could I get a boner (that would likely go unnoticed unless we were at the aforementioned nudist resort)? Yeah absolutely, could happen. Sure, maybe it's been social conditioning since I was like 11 but at the same time it still "is," sometimes people don't think it be like it is, but it do, even if the reason for it "being" is 30+yr of social conditioning.
I think that the notion that we exist to control our environment is comforting, but hubris. We exist in our environment and absolutely do not have a control of most of it. Like in this example, I can control my reaction in that I don't become a sex crazed rapebeast every time "titty," but I cannot control "mmm hell yeah titty." Frankly, I'm not sure I want to. Hell yeah titty! What is wrong with me having a sexual nature as a human after all? I'm not sure liking boobs counts as a kink really (it certainly isn't paraphilia) but "don't kink shame me," really.
Sure, cavemen may have been naked and if I was raised as a caveman perhaps I'd like titty less. Buuuut it's 2024, and I've been raised in this world, where I do in fact like boobs.
Really it isn't an issue for me as far as I'm concerned, excepting my hesitancy to walk around naked myself at a nudist resort because I don't want to possibly have an embarrassing boner. It may be an issue for people who want to walk around tits akimbo and still not have them be seen or who have a problem with me liking seeing them, but they've chosen to be naked in public and so a certain amount of "being seen" has to be expected.
Sorry for the late reply. I've had a busy few days.
I'm not saying there's natural/biological part to seeing some who is naked outside of culture norm to do so. What I'm saying is that decoupling your sexual desires from non sexual situations is beneficial not only for you but also for society. I'm advocating for a higher understanding of what it means to be human and respecting those despite what they look like or what they are wearing. Yes all within reason. Of course no one is arguing that you would knock a women out to SA (sexual assault.) her, but there are those that don't have that level of control. And those people use our ridiculous cultural ideas about nudity and sexuality to do such atrocities. Your stance is just the lesser form of, "what was she wearing?" "why was she in that environment, she should have known SA was a possibility." Just because a women is walking around naked/topless does not mean she wants to be objectified. (because once you boil someone down to an object, harming them becomes much easier.) Ya have that moment of nice tits, but don't mentally linger on it, ogle at her, or voice your desires to others. And if you see others doing the opposite chastise them. If you want to get so excited about boobs go on the internet, go to a strip club or reputable brothal, or get in a healthy relationship with someone that'll show you their's in a sexual manner. I fucking love women's boobs and ass, and love smashing may face into them during consensual activities. But I can also see a naked woman and not have the first thought be sexual.
Honestly, I must respectfully disagree. Personally, I still respect someone even if I want to have sex with them (or enjoy seeing them topless, as it were), in fact if we started getting to know eachother and found out I did not respect them, I would no longer find them attractive.
I further disagree in that I think simply looking at someone and being attracted isn't (or at least isn't necessarily,) objectification. I think there has to be a whole lot more at play than just "oh this girl looked at my abs while my shirt was off in public, she's objectifying me." Even if she said "oh look at that guy's abs" to a friend, I don't think it's crossed a line. Attraction isn't necessarily a problem, what's a problem is not taking no for an answer. Even if the first thought is sexual, so? Sex is natural, attraction is natural, it is what it is, just don't harass people.
I'm gay. Personally, I've just never had trouble in situations with non-sexual nudity. I've been to nude beaches, about ten of my city's World Naked Bike Ride, and of course locker rooms. Plenty of hot guys around, it's hard not to notice, but never had the smallest issue with anything being evident. It feels like it's largely based on the setting.
Idk I feel like that is also highly dependant on your individual body. I know guys who never become engorged (without the help of modern medicine of course), and grown ass men that have never even fell out of that teenage "random boner" phase which we all surely have at least a passing familiarity with, and everywhere in between. I'd say I'm in between, the randos are gone, but they are easily triggered in certain circumstances.
You could bring a towel and casually hold it in front of the happy area. Maybe people will know what’s going on but they also know you’re trying. We’re all human.
Good to know, is that like, common etiquette in all of them? Not that I'm planning on going anytime soon anyway but I guess it's good to know just in case!
It’s not even mandatory to be nude, at least the ones I know in Germany. So you could get accustomed to it slowly. As long as you’re not staring, you’re fine.
In Sylt, a German Island, the nude and dog beaches are mixed.
Huh, good to know, I did indeed think those places were mandatory to be nude at like the resort type places. I know they specifically have "clothing optional beaches" (not in my country afaik, but still), and those I figured were optional as they say, but I may hold a misconception about the "nudist resorts" proper.
Glad the dogs can be nude on the beaches though! Lol :D
They have to be pretty big and saggy to do this.
It does sound like a mildly amusing female comedy troupe though.
True! My first thought is usually drugs without further context.
I agree. There's such shame and disgust around the work of art that is the human body that really needs to be worked on.
Some of y'all should be ashamed.
Projection much?
No u!!!!!!
Are you male or female? In this case, it matters.
You see, males (for the most part) ARE attracted to breasts! It's hard wired in our brains! Even gay friends have an obsession with boobs! We men LOVE boobs!!
If you want to go topless, I say: FUCK YEAH!!! But I feel like the disconnect comes from some people feeling violated if men stare. I'm sorry, but if there are boobs within eyeshot, I'm gonna be looking at them. I might try to hide my gaze (because I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable), but I'm gonna be checking them out. As frequently as possible. Because.....boobs!!
I'm sorry if this is not the kind of response you were looking for, but.....BOOBS!!
I'm a cis heterosexual male. I love all things about a women's body, but I'm mature enough to not pop a boner just because I see a naked attractive woman. Like is that honestly hard for some healthy adult men?! Like if that woman and I are making sexual advances towards each, game on! Otherwise, what's the big deal?
You are talking about culture not purely biological. Before clothing men weren't walking around with erections all day. Same thing goes for many other cultures. The obsession with seeing anything naked is because we treat all nudity equally when it's not. I see it as a personal control and character issue that is ingrained in western and Abrahamic religions areas.
I'm not saying I would be walking around with a boner. I'm saying I would want to look at naked breasts because I appreciate female bodies (in this case, specifically the chesticle region) no matter the shape. Are you shaming me for that?
Sure, if everyone walked around naked 24/7, it would probably be less of an issue. Do you believe that everyone walking around naked 24/7 is a viable option?
And also, you seriously believe that it is an issue ONLY with Western cultures and Abrahamic religions?! I'm starting to think you have never spoken to someone from China or Japan about their societal norms.
As long as you keep your inner monolog to yourself and are not ogling at the women I don't see it as problematic. But you should still try to decoupling your sexual desires from non sexual situations.
I disagree that it's "hardwired in our brains". It certainly has a strong cultural bias. Also, I kinda look at it like a gynologist: If you've seen 20 of them naked, it gets boring and you stop staring, I guess.
On the other hand, I'm gay and breasts just don't do anything for me. Now a guy with a decent set of pecs (but not ridiculously oversized), now we're talking.
What's your opinion on the Terry Crews style pec muscle jiggle?
It's a bit much.
Equal protection clause. Any law that imposes itself on women and not men should be unconstitutional.
Should, but laws outlawing toplessness are almost always upheld by the courts, unfortunately.
I chose my words.
Equal protection*
Dunno, an intentionalist would argue that by "people" they were only talking about rich white men.
Obviously they didn't think slaves were people. Why would you think the considered women as people?
It's the 14th amendment. Kind of an important one.
Isn't that the one that kept slavery legal?
There's a lot going on there.
And you're thinking of the 13th amendment.
You might want to spend more time studying our constitution if you're going to participate in discussions about it.
The Supreme Court did pretty much read out that 3rd section.
YES
END THE HYPOCRISY
👏 FORCE
👏 MEN
👏 TO
👏 WEAR
👏 SHIRTS!
^^^apologies, i should have appended an '/s'^^^
No way am I going swimming like JD Vance.
NGL, swimming with a shirt on is dope, no sunburn, im happy to admit im weird
Plus you can pull the neck of it up around your mouth, draw the neck hole tight enough to form a loose seal, and exhale into it to inflate it like a balloon :D and then your voice sounds neat and echoey in it! Wet fabric is not as permeable to air so it will actually stop it from escaping too fast.
Sunscreen is expensive
Of course he does
He's a nevernude.
Heck nah, free the tiddy. I'm transitioning and I wanna be able to show off what I've grown when I'm able haha
Also just like, can we all stop making everything sexual and let peoples bodies exist. Instead of hiding everything and making ourselves feel ashamed of our bodies
Free them tiddies!
On a serious note, while I've always believed that boobs aren't inherently sexual, years of bathing people has extended that to all nudity.
Once you get used to seeing people naked all the time, nudity by itself ceases to be sexual. There has to be intent to the nudity to matter.
And it isn't like I didn't bathe attractive boobs and vag (that being what I'm attracted to personally, I'm not into guys), I did. Plenty of them, surprisingly, what with accidents and illnesses being involved (you'd think that illness and injury would reduce the attractiveness overall, what with part of attractiveness being signs of health). Even in nursing homes, there were enough attractive bodies that most people would be surprised.
But it wasn't sexual at all. Well, not for me anyway, some of the patients had moments.
It's just skin.
The flip side of that is that after a while, I just got annoyed at people doing the usual "old people gross" bullshit. No, they aren't, they're just old. Age, disability, none of it makes someone's body unpleasant inherently. Tbh, there's beauty in all of it after I got past the initial dissonance with nudity in general. That "I'm not supposed to be seeing this" that we get drilled into us.
I always look at it this way.... being into feet is one of the most common paraphilias(other than breasts) that people can have.
If folks into feet can control themselves in summertime when barefeet and sandals are common, then people into boobs can control themselves when they see female nipples out.
I also agree that we need to desexualize the nude human body outside of sexual contexts. I went to a classical art school where we would draw from live nude models for 8 hours a day.
How quickly you get used to nude bodies is kind of impressive, and the men in class didn't turn into sex crazed animals when we had nude female models. The folks into penises didn't become possessed with lust over the nude male models. Everything went professionally as it should. So people can in fact handle nude bodies with maturity when they want to.
Its just most people dont want to... for some reason.
If a trans person lives somewhere they legally cannot change their gender, does that mean they can legally go topless in a state where its illegal to bare breasts, because the State still recognizes them as men?
You'd likely be labeled a fetishist and thus arrested for acting lewd in public.
I mean.....I have self body issues. I wear a hoodie in the summer when it's nearly 100F.
But I was thinking we go the other way on this. Ladies, just because I'M ashamed of my body, and cover up, doesn't mean YOU need to! Let the girls get some air!
Im sure some people are attention seeking to some degree but most people i know who go on neighborhood runs are just out doing their own thing and if anything are overly self conscious about showing off their bodies. I overheat incredibly quickly when I go for runs, and I frequently have to peel off my top layer and I'm still soaked. I can't imagine I'm the only one. And I absolutely hate having any attention drawn to myself. Judgment from other people when I'm just out trying to get in a nice run outdoors sucks.
Honestly this is a good idea in some settings. If there is a concern of harassment or anything like this just require shirts.
Legal in more states now. https://gotopless.org/topless-laws
See how Indiana is red there? I had friends in college in Indiana back in the 90s who stripped to help pay for their schooling and they had to put round band-aids over their nipples. They could bare their breasts, inside a building, but not their nipples.
You mean in a strip club or in public?
Inside the strip club. No nipples allowed.
Wtf
I can't explain it either.
Blue laws are hell to work around as a performer. Thankfully NYC is pretty lax.
That said, the silver lining is that nipple pasties are an absolute central part of burlesque now and you can find everything from cheap disposables to custom made works of art
It's so funny though. Like the nipple suddenly makes it horrible smut but it's okay with almost the nipple.
Blue laws are a joke. In many states you can't show underboob
Also, notice it's only fem presenting nipples
Man nipples = Go for it anywhere at any time. At the DMV? Show off those nipples!
Woman nipples = the worst thing you can possibly see in a strip club.
To be honest nipple pasties are HELLA sexy. Just makes it even better when they get taken off later on. But who knows, maybe the reason I think so is because of burlesque popularizing them.
Are they called that because they relate to blue balling?
Washington surprises me. AFAIK full nudity is legal in Seattle.
did not expect Nevada to ban tatas
Sadly, site doesnt load
Hooray!
Username checks out.
…for Boobies!
I was told (but didnt confirm this) that in Barcelona you can go full nude almost everywhere and there is a naked guy on a bike that is pretty famous there (didnt get to see him fortunately?)
Why is it not legal everywhere that it is for men? This is ass backwards lol. I just always assumed it was more of a women saying "not gonna do that cause pervs" type thing and how overly sexualized boobs are
It's a straw man / non issue.
In Germany are public places marked as FKK (Freikörper Kultur = Full Nudity in Public), which are literally normal areas without any special consideration in terms of visibility. Best case: There is a sign notifying the squeamish that there could be Nudity... normal Case: No one gives a fuck.
Heck, the best public baths are the sauna/thermal baths with are mandatory nude, age restriction 16+....
It has no sexual meaning .. you go there, everyone is naked after 10 seconds of slight awkwardness, you forget about it and enjoy the freedom of "no cold and wet swimwear" on the body.
It's great!
I doubt Americans are different in that perspective.
Edit: Perverts won't have fun there. The people are average and mostly old and the behavior is casual. It's like seeing your mom or dad naked. The few People who could get off on this have issues.
Lmao
That's all I came to say
exactly, we're so regressive here that some parents just never even talk to their children about sex or their bodies because they are too ashamed to bring up the topic. nudity in public would not go over well
Right. This dude doesn't realize that if women did this in America dudes would be just non stop staring or straight up grabbing a handful walking by and shit. It's disgusting but it's the truth or America.
Not every dude would do this obviously but there are a selection of scumbags who most certainly would.
But I thought they love "freedom" over everything?
You didn't experience freedom when you never took a thermal bath and grilled your balls in the sun... :)
"freedom" as in "free to economic growth" but not "free" as in "free to do what you want"
Hey I'm not saying you're wrong about that lol But America is full of hypocrisies.
The Article made it sound like hyped up "look at this thing and how unbelievable it is" while it is completely normal.
But I think I am ignorant regarding the issue in the US an I think I became a sex offender at least twice while visiting the US. ._.
Okay well I'm interpreting this as a joke lmao.
But if it's not then dude... You're a sex offender.
If there's one thing America gets right it's sex offender laws.
Well I always just change on the spot since I was little, maybe with a loose towel, but it literally just a fig leaf... when it drops, it drops.
But since I'm already a sex offender,... time to grab some pussy? (/s)
I wasn't saying you were a sex offender lol I meant if you did get charged legally it would be for good reason (99% of the time).
Wrongful charges do occur, of course, when a "victim" claims rape falsely and there isn't enough evidence to prove it didn't happen (which is the opposite of how it is supposed to be - innocent until proven guilty).
I have no oder how to know everything. There are so many laws for stuff I didn't even consider regulated, it's hard to know what's illegal and when.
Open container law, or that you can't exit the car and walk on the side of a highway... (the two things we actually got in trouble with, but the cops were chill to us 4 Germans, amused even when we told them we had no more fuel and didn't know what else to do / when a friend took his beer to the car to finish on the way home)
Next time we will do better
you can become a sex offender for peeing somewhere you shouldn't. i wouldn't hype up our sex offender laws that much.
I mean you shouldn't have your dick out in public so...
Well you're kinda right. I've lived in BC and the Yukon where it's fully legal for women to go topless and I know quite a few who have, for shorter events like naked bike ride etc. But most of them intelligently choose not to at public beaches and whatnot because of the ick factor.
I know one lady who did choose to go topless on a hot summer day in a fairly major downtown center and was accosted by cops whom she had to argue with (gladly, and loudly) for over an hour to explain to them that she was breaking no laws. They were trying to pressure her to re-robe because they were getting complaints, but again it's true that she was breaking no laws at all. They couldn't in the end do anything about it, and rightly so.
Honestly, boobs are not that exciting.
Have you ever been to a topless beach? The novelty wears out after about 10 seconds and then it becomes a boring norm.
I think boobs are super exciting. I love boobs.
If they're connected to the body of the girl I'm being intimate with that is.
Walked into Starbucks today to grab a food order and saw an attractive woman breastfeeding her child today, though, and not one sexual thought entered my mind.
Thats the part most men struggle with.
And some women, too, though not for the same reasons. "Oh that's not something thAt should be done in public!" Okay so I guess for the same reasons, just different thought processes to arrive there.
Just let women decide what they are ok with
AFAIK anyone can go fully nude in most public spaces in Germany. It's actually kind of weirder to not allow it and carve out arbitrary exceptions if you think about it.
I think its decriminalized, not legal. That way the cops can just arrest people they want to discriminate against and let the white Christians violate the laws.
I feel like the simple solution is that if you can't have topless kids because of pervs, then you can't have topless kids and gender isn't part of it
Comments like this are why I left reddit. This is a completely hinged and totally reasonable thought process that calls in a question, a lot of facets of the issue and ways them against each other appropriately. Maybe something more crazy would spark a bunch more replies but I totally like that Lemmy is a place that just lets people be normal.
This is a western society problem, in tribes where women don't cover their breasts the men are interested in other parts.
Remember when ankles were sexy
These fucking 304s walking around with their exposed ankles will never find a husband. How will they live without a husband to get a bank account for them? They’ll die miserable and destitute, and they’ll deserve it.
And I’m not an incel for saying so, because I have a kid! Checkmate, cucks!
To answer your question, it could be legal grey area because not all pictures depicting nudity are automatically considered pornographic, if you are speaking in terms of legal precedent regarding obscenity in the US.
To further muddy the issue, photographing other peoples kids is considered creepy by nearly everyone but it isn't expressly illegal unless certain localities have specific statutes against it. There is no reasonable expectation of privacy in public places, so you have the potential situation where people are doing a presumptively legal activity in a public area where photographing that activity could be illegal depending on... intent?
Further, the courts have ruled that getting naked in public in the act of protesting something is part of protected speech. Presumably that applies to people of all ages and sexes as well but I doubt it has ever been tested.
You are inventing a problem that does not exist. Go take a walk where it is allowed and see how many girls are walking topless in the street.
It's not necessarily because they don't want to. It's because in North American culture, it invites harassment. And then people like many of those posting in this thread will just say that they asked for it. So of fucking course women don't go topless in public.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/women-can-go-topless-in-ontario-but-they-don-t-want-to-fearing-harassment-1.3171257
I mean, it is because they don't want to ...
That's why they didn't want to.
There are many guys who are attracted to breasts. Hopefully they have some basic self control but to say that it isn't an issue what so ever is wrong.
The true problem is not a problem, it's the reality of human sexuality where most men and some women see female breasts as sexual most of time.
There are different situations where nudity of all kinds is not perceived sexually, that doesn't affect the general rule that I shouldn't run around the block all naked.
Saying it's not equal because men too have nipples and those are not perceived as sexual is kinda strange. Let's abolish pregnancy leaves then. Gender may be a social construct by now, sex is obviously not, and (most) humans are not hermaphrodites, so the rules can't be the same.
This is a nothing burger of a subject frankly, we already know that real world doesn't fit ideal ideas. If some ideal idea would describe the real world, then you'd only need that ideal idea to know it all and other information wouldn't matter. Some religious fanatics are actually trying, destroying all the knowledge and art not coming from their holy book.
This doesn't work, the real world is as complex as all the information in it. An action is good or bad only in a particular real situation.
Which is also why choosing a seemingly ideal enough principle and trying to fit it to everything, pretending that makes everyone equal, is a lie.
Women are allowed to walk around in sandals and no shoes at the beach despite foot fetishes being one of the most common paraphilias(behind breasts.)
You don't see women getting accosted by guys who like feet because they have their toes out and it's sexual to some guy nearby.
If dudes into feet can control themselves and be respectful then so can dudes into breasts when they are near a top less woman in public.
As far as I'm concerned walking totally naked should be legal, though for practical implications of varying ass-wiping culture and genitals saying things we don't put into words, I suppose, it would be "everything is optional except pants".
So you feel that women should be arrested and prosecutable if their nipples are exposed?
That's very misogynist. And no, you can't argue for the law to "save the women" from all those perverts. Because the whole point of this is to free women from the bullshit laws that allows society to prosecute them while pulling double duty by effectively shaming their bodies.
Most women are not going to run around topless voluntarily. But, even if they did - say a group of girls or women decided to go skinny dipping or whatever at a lake, do you really believe they should go to jail for that?
Don't mansplane and tell everyone these laws are for women's own good, because they aren't. Inventing this bizarre photographic scenario is just bizarre. It's a fiction of your imagination and is a straw man argument.
You are correct that the true problem is men, but not how you think it is.
Are you okay? OP's post was pretty well written, and the guy only explained his moral dilemma without being disrespectful and you come shouting down like a banshee.
His point is a totally valid one and should be discussed to alleviate any moral dilemma to be had.
Should be nationwide
Should be worldwide
I support this for all the reasons. All the right ones. And all the wrong ones.
I want to build a society where women can walk around wearing whatever they want, even nothing, because they feel safe from harassment for all the reasons you listed.
In America, here in France is a right nationwide ✊
I assume it's because France is a sane country.
All boobies, both genders!
Of all ages
It's legal where I live. Nobody does it
Where is that? I think women often don't walk around topless because men sexualize them or take photos, etc.
As a woman who’s done it: it’s mostly just awkward. I don’t go topless unless it’s an occasion warranting it or it’s way too damn hot to wear a shirt. The men don’t help for certain, but there’s just also the element of being the only shirtless woman around
Could be anywhere, it's legal in a lot of the US but nobody partakes because it draws unwanted attention.
Which is how it SHOULD be viewed! If you're going to be intentionally sexy in a public place, you should expect people to notice. I don't walk down the street with my balls hanging out of my pants......well, unless I'm single.
Being shirtless isn't being sexy is just being shirtless, not the same as balls, and thinking that your balls would help you not being single is...weird
You just admitted that balls are sexy. How WOULDN'T they help me not be single?
Fetticini
Linguini
Bikini
Martini
You're gonna love my nuts!
Yeah, it's kinda built in
And if you're not comfortable with people seeing you topless, just head further north, where there's no people anymore
I'm guessing toplessness gets rarer as it gets colder, long before you run out of people.
Or as we Brits (of any gender) might say: "I'm freezing me tits off"
I'm in a very far southern area in Canada, and I'm here to report, it's not something that happens here either.
So heading further north, let's see, more rare than "I have never witnessed nor heard from anyone who witnessed it".... Uhhh. I feel like this is like dividing by zero.
It just doesn't happen.
The fact is, it should be legal. It's sexist if it's not legal. Whether anyone chooses to exercise the right to do it, is an entirely different matter.
Totally agree, I was just reiterating what the previous commenter said - if someone doesnt like toplessness then they can just go where there's no people <or where it's cold>. Not really a serious comment. 😅
amendment the constitution. the right to bare tiddies
First Amendment absolutist
everything is speech including my nuts
New York too. Or is it just the city?
San Francisco as well
IIRC it's completely legal to walk around fully nude in San Francisco.
Edit: I was at work so I couldn't look this up to post it but yeah, there's a website dedicated to it.
http://www.nudeinsf.com/
It's certainly legal to be that one random dude sunbathing in Delores Park during the handful of days that are warm enough. The rest of San Francisco is rocking jeans and a light jacket / hoodie. That is the official Bay Area dress code.
Bring your own towel for the bus, please. I'm sick of sharing.
Yup legal in NY.
But we do have cabaret laws in NYC that say you can’t dance in an establishment without a license for dancing which is super dum dum.
Reminds me of something...I think it was Stormy Daniels or some similar figure talking about her first time working in a strip club, and a local law said that nude performers had to be on a "stage," but there were no technical specifications for said "stage" so they had small raised platforms not dissimilar to a cargo pallet for the girls to dance on near each table.
Legal in Ohio as well for women to go topless. I'm not sure if there are any age restrictions or anything.
Idk of age restrictions but it’s not an explicit right here, so most municipalities have laws against it. Columbus doesn’t though so you can free the tits there
Yeah, but......you have to see women from......Ohio.......
Tits are not sex organs.
Anything can be a sex organ if you're kinky enough.
But since its not a protected class I assume businesses can turn them away
Most businesses will turn away anyone shirtless, especially where health code violations come into play.
Yeah I’ve gone topless in cities where it’s legal before and you just need to bring a shirt if you plan on eating
Are tits really that unsanitary that you're going to infect a restaurant topless? I've got nipples, and I think they're cleaner than my hands because I didn't touch the door handle with my pecs.
How do YOU open doors???
I won't reveal this secret but I will tell you it's large and prehensile.
Not really, but it’s one of those things you need to be prepared to be asked to do. Many bars are cool with it though, even ones that are restaurants. I guess the whiskey disinfects the tits
Ah, got it.
Next time a restaurant gives me shit about being topless, I'll just dip a rag in some whiskey, rub my nipples with it, and say "there! Are you happy? And proceed to place my order"
It's something you wouldn't have a problem with until you sat down in a booth and suddenly your back is covered in some shirtless person's sweat.
If its so hot they're sweating, the shirt would be wet and so would the chair
Right. "No shoes. No shirt. No service."
Which is fair. There's a difference between walking down the street topless and being inside a resteraunt.
Why is it not healthy for me to eat without a shirt again??
It's not healthy for others for you to eat without a shirt
Why?
Because (in your case) it would be vomit inducing!
🤣 Just joshing you.
If they allow it for men they might have to allow it for everybody.
Sex/gender is a protected class.
Shirted/Shirtless isn't
The entire point is, where men are allowed to do so.
Yes, but the nuance of the situation is selective enforcement.
Luckily, many of these explicitly allowed areas are resultant of lawsuits so there is precedent for those discriminated against.
So this body freedom is ok.
All bodily freedoms, including that pesky bodily autonomy thing that some people seem to struggle to understand, should be freedoms granted by the constitution (or similar document in other countries).
We passed laws that have made things more equal here in Canada. The US should do the same.
I keep thinking about America's obsession with freedom, and from what I see, y'all aren't very free.
None of which have beaches like the one in the photo.
I have an "umm what about" regarding "of all ages."
Say a 15 year old girl decides to walk topless down main street. Is everyone on that street who has a security camera running going to be convicted of making child porn?
I don't trust the legislature to have been competent enough to edit the rest of the code to reflect that change nor do I trust the thin blue line punisher sticker crowd to pass up something they can portray as a crime.
To answer your question seriously, no. Having pictures or videos of a 15 year olds breast is not by default porn, it's only porn once it's in a sexual context.
You are sexualizing nudity. This is the bulk of the problem.
In some German cities public pools it's allowed, too. Source in German: https://www.hessenschau.de/panorama/frankfurt-erlaubt-oben-ohne-schwimmen--v4,frankfurt-schwimmbaeder-100.html
New York, too! And a few other states, I think.
Same in Ontario.
grrr muc opreson
And...
I'm like tonr between this like one side thinks who cares if men can do it women should have the right, but you get angry religious nutjobs. On the other side you get weirdos who will just be even bigger creeps.
I feel like they might have been wise to wait for a less fucked up SCOTUS before taking this before it.
It's not a bad idea, as it's something that needs doing but it's unlikely to be passed as a federal law, and they're kind of right that it is unconstitutional.
But this is bad timing.
Edit: It might not be clear that I was referring to the three women who are avoiding to the article taking freedom of toplessness to the supreme court, where I think they're unlikely to get support with the court's current constellation. Losing the case now might make it harder to get a similar case before a more favourable constellation of the SCOTUS in the future, so it's not very strategic in that sense.
Then it was rightfully pointed out that the article was old, and they had already lost the case before the SCOTUS (in it's current constellation). So indeed bad timing.
Maybe I wasn't clear. Or maybe there's an unpopular opinion in there. Dunno. Cheers.
The article is 5 years old.
Shoot - I just read the article and saw the related links, but it didn't occur to me that it's completely out of date.
Did they ever make it to the SCOTUS? I guess not?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-supreme-court-refuses-free-144949699.html
Unfortunately, though the problem has gotten much worse in recent years, the theocratic leanings of the Supreme Court has been an issue for decades now.
The argument that this is gender discrimination seems obviously true to me so it’s shocking to me that we’re still living in a society where this type of government violence is still widely accepted. I just have to hope that we’ll eventually evolve beyond this type of Puritanism.
Thanks, I had completely missed that ruling. Of course four years ago would not have been any better than today - it's the same SCOTUS.
Hopefully four years from now the situation will look different.
I still think this is a great possibility for the judiciary to step up, as I doubt federal legislators are going to touch this issue, and it seems pretty fundamental to me. Seems like it's not the most welcome discussion in this thread though!
Good point, I think of the change in court composition as a very recent thing but time flies. It has been a few years at this point.
I hope you’re right that the lower courts will make more similar rulings but I suspect the Supreme Court might overturn it if they went too far. We’re just lucky Fort Collins ran out of money here.
Unfortunately, the court’s composition could take decades to change. It’s a big problem with no easy solution.
Yeah, it's impossible to tell. But time flies - with four new years a lot could happen. :)
(Or it could be reformed. One could dream)
Unfortunately I don’t see any of the proposed reforms measurably improving things while the right has an equal or greater grip on power. Any reforms that are easily implemented are easily neutralized or turned against the left when republicans return to power. Which, in the current political system, is an inevitability.
More radical reforms could solve the problem but would require much greater political power. In my opinion this can only be achieved by forming a mass movement that completely overpowers the right’s institutional advantages. Whether this can or will happen remains to be seen but it won’t be easy.
They didn't lose their case in front of SCOTUS. SCOTUS just decided not to hear the case so the lower court's ruling stood in that lower jurisdiction.
It’s not what you said. You’re allowed to have preferences and you’re allowed to have your own beliefs about modesty, and to be with someone that shares in those beliefs. It’s the way you said it that reveals shitty attitude towards women. You imply that all women should act in accordance to your beliefs and that they are somehow lesser for not being up to your wifey material standards. The world doesn’t need conform to you. You’re weirdly judgy and you’ll probably get mad that others are judging you and your opinion but you can’t be shitty and not expect people to be shitty back.
We found an incel in the wild, holy fuck. Just as pathetic as we had been led to believe!
Incel with a family… please explain???
Calling women females is at best weird and insensitive for example.
I got big time Ferengi vibes from that comment.
Yeah ofc females is an issue. We have the word "women" which is more specific and less loaded.
And no, tits aren't sexual by essence. No body parts are and it's all social constructs.
Plus lil kids tend to already see lots of tits since they feed on them.
Yes I am weird but I'm also right 😉
They can't find partners because MEN ARE AWFUL. Men (especially young men) are swinging so hard into fascism. Meanwhile, women are swinging the other way; or maybe standing still while the Overton window is dragged away from them. If you are looking for a man under 30, and you are not also a man under 30, you are fucked.
You might have just as well pointed at all the young fascists who can't find tradwives because they are so fucking toxic. Blaming women is arbitrary.
By your own arguments, women don't actually behave like that -- going topless in public. And you know damn well that most women don't have OF accounts. And yet we can see a massive swing in young men's behaviour all over the world recently. Is it because they are men? Is it a coincidence that they are men and behaving badly? I don't fucking know, but it's a thing that is happening, and all you have in response is an attempt to deny reality.
and you wonder how we all know you're fragile and misogynistic.
Take a look at this data.
NDP is the leftist party. CPC is the right-wing party. PCP is the far-right racist party. Look at the difference between men under 30 and women under 30. This is a real thing that is really happening. It isn't because of OF. It isn't because of being topless. It's because of a profound difference of values. Deal with it.
https://www.ekospolitics.com/index.php/2024/08/conservative-party-experiences-largest-decline-since-pierre-poilievre-assumed-leadership/ Reverse image search exists, you know
PS: I date men and women. Where's your insight into dating men coming from? Sitcoms?
Calm down, take your pill 🤣
Ableism.
Incel detected
Just because you still live in Mommy and Daddy's basement, doesn't mean you have a family. More like, a family is still stuck with you!
My family meaning my wife and kid. How can I be an incel if some one can explain it to me. They say incel and dont know what it means lol
Incel has moved in English from "involutary celibate" to mysoginistic.
I'm not saying you are but you sure speak like one...
Only simps believe in the "friend zone"
It's a mythical place neckbeards such as yourself ficticiously place yourself in
My neckbeard grew instantly reading that post.
You should meet better men. Really fuckin bizarre take
They are all hard working family men. It don't get better than that! Their wives dont think showing her tits in public is a good thing either.
If a woman taking her breats out in public is enough for you guys to only reduce her to only "fun" is disgusting
Ohhh I forgot you are the only person’s opinion that matters. Got it!
Hmmm it's almost as if men's opinion on this matter shouldn't matter nearly as much as women's
Plenty of "304"s ARE married. Sorry to disappoint.
This is so funny to me, because single women are overall happier than married women, and for very good reasons.
This is far from being a pandemic. It's a liberation... from shitty men like you, who insist that they're the prize, simply because they are men. This has been a looooonnnggg time coming.
What is the "304" referring to?
Had to look it up as well, but apparently it is how you type "hoe" in a calculator upside down..
Wow. So mature
Maybe you're not familiar with many women, but they're definitely not single because of a lack of options
And still you are so scared you have to justify your fears. What an incel vibe.
Yeah this person is a serial troll. They will troll and argue about anything even if they are blatantly wrong and everyone knows they are wrong. They seem to have honestly nothing better to do, since almost all of their replies are trolling and hostility.
Shame the drama is so misogynistic from hes side :-/
But you're right, I tagged him and I'll leave it to downvotes :-) cheers!
"wIfE mAtErIaL"
Good luck even scraping the bottom of the barrel, but I guess the Karens and the crazy ones gotta have "a breadwinner" too right I mean when you get out of moms basement and get a job.
Im already married with kids and my wife doesn't go topless in public. Like I dont even need to tell her, she grew up with morals and all that good stuff missing in these 304!
I wonder what problems you have that you have to try to boast about your so isn't going topless outside?
Weird.
Wow this is copypasta material here.
You're doing it wrong then sir!
Lol
You've been added to my banlist.
Thanks