yeah... bombing kids in hospitals in Gaza and corporate tax breaks are aok... but god forbid a poor person gets affordable treatment for his cancer ?? communists !!!!!
Yeah my dumbass neighbor used to argue that he shouldn't have to pay for women's feminine care when he pays for his medical insurance. And I'm like, "Are you fucking kidding me? Do you have any idea how many male-centric diseases are covered by insurance?" Fucking stupid self-centered dipshits. And it was dumb because in every other way this guy was pretty intelligent.
I don't want my taxes to pay for someone else's healthcare. I want my post tax dollars to pay for wealthy CEOs' yachts, and my tax dollars to pay for some other person's healthcare but at ridiculous rates.
Particularly those people, you know? The ones I can't mention directly so I have plausible deniablity, but we all actually know who I'm talking about and it's not even a dogwhistle anymore.
I wouldn't want those people to receive qualitative care. I'd rather pay for some other person's new yacht than for these people's bare necessities.
Right, definitely one of those things I don’t understand. For most of those people, universal healthcare can only be better than what they currently have. Haven’t they seen the mess they’re in?
I do have better health insurance than most, so there is every chance it will be worse for me. That is so worth it! At least it would be cheaper and hopefully less paperwork
I hate to break it to everyone but she does not currently support single payer nor will her presidency push for it. (At least, that's the message they're putting out right now.)
Never forget that everything Trump says is a lie, even if it's one you want to believe.
That said, I think it would be easier to drag her into it than Biden.
If we get supermajorities in the House and Senate it might. Otherwise, you're probably right. When we have 50 dem senators and one of them is Joe Manchin, well...
Yeah, all the people bitching about Manchin never seem to get that the choice was always Manchin or a far right Republican, not Manchin or a west coast progressive.
You lost the ability to get anyone left of Manchin out of WV in 2000.
Guys, no, we just need to run a far left lefty candidate in WV. This R+40 state is absolutely clamoring to vote for socialism because reasons. The Dems won't do it, though (both sides bad). Also it has to be a Dem and not a grassroots movement because this R+40 state clamoring to vote for a real socialist needs a socialist with DNC backing before they'll stop voting for racism.
Interestingly enough, WV used to be a safe blue state for most of the state's history. Literally Gore ruined that.
Because they weren't blue due to progressive social policy, they were blue because of the unions. Gore went after the biggest union industries in the state, and no Dem since has thought how to fix it.
Of all people, Bernie did really well in the 2016 primary, but since Clinton got ~35% compared to Bernie's ~53% she of course got a majority of our state's delegates (by one).
If you wanted to get a Dem to poll well here, you'd have to drop the gun stuff almost entirely (a lot of rural folks and a lot of hunters, a lot of woods full of wild animals [and those woods are directly adjacent to most populated areas - the entire state is forested mountains], etc), not lead with the progressive social justice stuff (not denounce it, not ignore it, just not treat it as the top priority and focus of your message - it's there but it's not what you're selling yourself on), and then double down on working class concerns (this should be what you lead with and emphasize). Think something adjacent to social populism.
Yeah well if it's anything like the Democrats were in Arizona until recently the state party is basically defunct. You'll have professional politicians running against single issue school teachers. The DNC is not good with reaching out to help state parties. A large part of the reason the GOP hasn't died from going far right is the Democrats seem happy to let them have rural states without any fight. Which of course means the people there only get one political point of view too.
We have elected officials literally making up lies about teachers here to get them fired. Our sheriff got away with it because he is immune. They used our tax dollars to pay her off he wouldn't have to get embarrassed in court before re-election
~~Democrats ~~ Liberals don't want to push the envelope
Spineless liberals are losing ground in the party. Status quo and subservience to banks is no longer popular in our party. Progressives are slowly overcoming liberals.
Liberals want to throw money at problems, ignoring root causes
Progressives want to tackle the root causes
It's great when a quote is taken out of context, and then you look at the context, and it's even worse.
"She cosponsored legislation to abolish very popular private health insurance, which 150 [million] Americans rely on, dumping everyone onto inferior socialist government run health care systems with rationing and deadly wait times, while massively raising your taxes. She wants to take away your private health care."
As if 150M Americans have a real choice in private insurance, or that the bureaucracy of the system doesn't already result in rationing and deadly wait times.
As a side note, Project 2025 does something similar with cars. Something to the effect of "Americans overwhelmingly prefer cars" to justify ignoring bikes or public transit projects, again as if there was a real choice being offered.
I just don't think grandma should be in front of an Obama Death Panel.
The Death Panel should be guys trying to sacrifice her to the line, someone with zero knowledge of her care typing "no" in a spreadsheet, or, fuck it, let's get an AI with a 90% error rate (always errs towards denial). Those are the right arbiters to decide the value of someone's life.
"You could have this appendectomy and live 30 more years perfectly healthy, but we see that you are retired and not generating revenue for your betters. Denied. "
Hmm. By thinking about it at all, you thought about it for too long. I have concerns if you'll be able to deny enough people per hour. Well, we could have you do gig economy denials as a contractor until we can replace you with the LLM.
I hated that attack line so much. It was about an optional benefit that my representative wanted to add for Medicare recipients, a voluntary consultation on living wills. This had been requested by the AARP. Sarah Palin latched onto it, lied that it would press people into ending their lives, lied that it would be mandatory, lied, lied, lied, and lied some more. It really demonstrates how much Sarah Palin was a large part of the Republican Party's descent into Trumpism, though you could also trace that back to Reagan's lies about "welfare queens".
Says the guy who never came up with an alternative to Obama Care and said "who knew health insurance was so complicated?"
Get rid of private insurance! We pay a ton in premiums and they still get to decide what they want to cover. Private insurance is bullshit. I'll just laterally move that premium to socialized health care so everyone has it.
Not only do we pay a ton in premiums, when you do actually get sick, you still have to pay enough that most can't afford it. My wife was diagnosed with cancer in December 2022. I spent more than $15,000 the last two years on her treatment. I am fortunate that I could afford that (it was definitely a strain). Most cannot. I have pretty good insurance because I work for a huge company with over 100k employees. The amount of money the insurance paid would financially destroy all but the most extremely wealthy.
My dad's medical bills were over $100,000 in his first year of cancer alone. He had liver cancer which is generally hard to beat and by the time they found it, his liver was 1/3 cancer. It permeated throughout his liver and they couldn't cut it out. Chemo and radiation were the only options. He had so many drugs costing thousands of dollars each. He had a team of doctors, one for each organ system, including the oncologists. The last year or two, he spent more time in the hospital than out of it. That's no way anyone could afford that without obscene wealth.
There's a polling paradox. The majority of insured Americans rate their insurance as good or excellent, according to Kaiser Family Foundation polling. But if the cost, especially if they are paying full cost, polls much lower.
I think that he's trying to rile up wealthy workers and small business owners who view their (better, but more expensive) private insurance as a luxury good and fear it might be made worse or more expensive if a national Healthcare scheme were implemented. I think it's pretty clear he's also flailing and making mistakes because of it, but we shouldn't overlook that Trump does have a handle on what some slice of Americans interests are, and his stament there isn't totally insane. Shit, it might just be a reflection of his own personal fears, but there's absolutely a real constituency for it.
How messed up is the US that universal health care is fear-mongering?
But I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I used to have an American boss who felt like she needed to convince me to leave the hell-hole country I was living in. I live in Europe in one of the World's safest, most democratic, wealthiest countries. And this was during the W. Bush era. I bet she became a full MAGA trumpist.
I think that the primary reason that anyone not standing to directly profit from the current system opposes universal healthcare is selfishness; they’ve worked hard to earn their (probably shitty) health insurance, and giving free health access to those they deem ‘undeserving’ devalues their own efforts.
Never mind the positive economic impacts; they wont move the needle. It’s like that one MAGA supporter said when interviewed; “they’re not hurting the_ right_ people”
Yup. I'm curious what "official capacity" means here. Does that mean anything goes if he says the magic words "official capacity"? Or is it more complicated than that
It's slightly more complicated than that. You have to ask "are they a Republican or a Democrat?". If the answer is Republican, it's probably an official act. If the answer is Democrat, it is not an official act. If the answer is "It's Donald Trump", then they follow up with the question "how high?".
Wow, the law is so complicated, I tell you what. Thank goodness we have highly qualified, politically neutral judges to interpret it for us.
During a rambling press conference at his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey, Trump said of Harris, “She cosponsored legislation to abolish very popular private health insurance, which 150 [million] Americans rely on, dumping everyone onto inferior socialist government run health care systems with rationing and deadly wait times, while massively raising your taxes. She wants to take away your private health care.
“It’s the best health care in the world,” he continued, adding, “You’re all going to be thrown into a communist system … You’re going to be thrown into a system where everybody gets health care.”
She's going to give you the bad health care. The kind that the foreigners and the blah people get. You're not going to receive the special elite luxury care. You're going to get the same care as everyone else.
It was always a war cry for the elites. “You won’t be able to buy superior healthcare anymore. You’ll have to wait like the rest of the plebs”.
We already have ridiculous wait times. I got told by my doctor that I couldn’t reschedule my appointment because it was booked out 2 months. I had to reschedule because the office was closed for a week due to a fucking Hurricane.
The conservative theory is that Medicaid is shit and will kill your mum.
Medicare is gold, but it only works if we ration it for Boomers exclusively.
If you "steal" private health insurance to pay for Medicaid, you're basically murdering people. If you open the doors to Medicare, you'll use up all the good medicine and "swamp the boat" as it were, ruining it for everyone currently on the plan.
Its a lot better than the big bowl of fuckall nothing I got now
Obviously, you don't need health care. You just need better bootstraps and a stronger pull.
The stress of not knowing if you have enough change to pay for the hospital's parking is unbearable. Worse, can you imagine the danger of living a life without the financial stress of breaking a leg?
Not having to wait 45 business days to get your out-of-network claims reimbursed just for your insurance to tell you they never got the claim and please resubmit. Which I've done. At the end of September it will be another 45 business days. This is for a weekly therapy that I expect to be covered 80% because it's out of network but maybe it isn't because fuck me and I won't know until I've been going for at least 15 weeks.
Someone in my family has medicare and it is absolutely fantastic insurance. You automatically get the very best prices on everything, because all the profiteering charges are automatically removed. I live in a large city and every doctor I've ever dealt with takes it because there are no insurance hassles, either for the doctor or for you. I'm talking about real medicare and not medicare disadvantage.
Wendell Potter spent decades scaring Americans. About Canada. He worked for the health insurance industry, and he knew that if Americans understood Canadian-style health care, they might.... like it. So he helped deploy an industry playbook for protecting the health insurance agency.
As a Canadian, I'll be the first to say that our system isn't perfect. If you've got a chronic but not life-threatening condition, like a need for knee or hip surgery, you could spend a long time on a waiting list. There are certainly lots of affluent Canadians who opt to step out of that line to get treatment at private for-profit clinics, both domestically and abroad. There's always a shortage of something. Qualified doctors, nurses, family practitioners, CT or MRI machines, etc.
That being said, if you do have a life-threatening condition, the Canadian healthcare system can work pretty well. My step father had pneumonia Nov./Dec. last year, chest xray revealed something concerning beyond the pneumonia, by early January biopsies has been done, by February he'd started radiation, six or so weeks of that, then monitoring for a while and now he's in remission. Everything moved fast, because he had a time-critical condition. Total cost to my family: zero dollars (setting aside costs for gas, parking, snacks for stress-eating, etc.). I couldn't imagine a family going through the same situation in the US.
you've got a chronic but not life-threatening condition, like a need for knee or hip surgery, you could spend a long time on a waiting list.
This is going to sound crazy, but that's also the case in the US. Months to see a specialist. Referred to another specialist. Wait months for an opening. It took me over a year of sporadic appointments just to get an epidural for back pain. It was ridiculous. All using "efficient" for-profit organizations where you pay out the ass for premiums and then they extract the rest through your dickhole if you dare to seek care.
There's also the self-imposed delays. How many days of waiting are racked up by Americans saying "let's see what happens" because of the prohibitive cost of accessing care?
I wonder what it looks like if you start the clock not at "You need hip replacement" but rather "My hip is acting up".
My aunt in Canada has had 2 hip replacements. And while she did have to wait, which is worse: waiting and not being in crushing medical debt? Or waiting a bit and having almost no costs?
Same for my father in law. If he were a US citizen he'd probably be bankrupt right now, or more likely just still be in pain because he couldn't afford the surgery in the first place.
If you compared wait times in Canada versus wait times in the U.S., Canada would probably be shorter overall.
The U.S. system creates artificial shortages in many different areas. They seek optimal profitablity by staffing slightly below what the need requires. This shortage justifies charging higher prices.
You can also probably blame some of the long wait times in Canada for things on the U.S. Specialist in the U.S. make a lot more money.
Here is Texas it is not uncommon when you have a health issue and call your primary doctor, to be told that they don't have any open appts for weeks and be told to go see an urgent care clinic instead. For profit primary doctors tend to arrange things so that all their time is filled up with non urgent "routine followups" or "annual checkups" and stuff that they have no time for any urgent medicare problems.
It depends who you're comparing. For the average US or Canadian citizen, I'm sure you're correct. If you look at income levels I bet it's a different story. The poor and middle class (whatever's left of it) have to wait, the rich have the option of paying out of pocket. If I wanted to have a whole-body MRI scan done, I could get one next week for $3200. Wouldn't even need to be sick! Requires a referral, but you can "obtain one virtually from (their) physician partners" and you know their "physician partners," aren't going to turn away business.
You get told it's just pneumonia, but it keeps coming back for years.
Eventually someone figures it out and says you have mesothelioma. You travel the country for a few years, looking for treatment wherever you can. It costs everything you have.
Somewhere along the way, you have to put down $120,000 in cash for a surgery that gives you a few more years. But your last years are still mostly pain and exhaustion.
His point is just to find a way to scare his voters by calling her a communist. It's the most pathetic attack ever.
Trump said of Harris: “She cosponsored legislation to abolish very popular private health insurance, which 150 [million] Americans rely on, dumping everyone onto inferior socialist government run health care systems with rationing and deadly wait times, while massively raising your taxes. She wants to take away your private health care.”
“It’s the best health care in the world,” he continued, adding: “You’re all going to be thrown into a communist system … You’re going to be thrown into a system where everybody gets health care.”
This bullshit about rationing and deadly wait times can only work on the most ignorant people who don't realize healthcare is better and more affordable in many other countries.
There may be a bit of "she won't hurt the right people" in there too.
And yet people will fall for it. I swear they are beyond help. I listened to some of the boring travesty that is his latest press conference and - besides his notably low energy - it seems the lies are just getting bigger and more absurd. It boggles the mind that a huge chunk of the American people will listen to that drivel and nod and mutter "yeah sounds right".
All this just reinforces how much of a cult MAGA is. He could say some outrageous shit like he was going to sacrifice his followers first born when he gets in office and I swear 95% of them would be like “oh cool”.
The whole thing is wild. I grew up in a Christian family… which republicans claim to be. If I did a tenth of what this dickhead does I’d get disowned so fast. His whole base thinks his shit don’t stink.
It's more than just being about "stupid" people though. After all, who benefits from deliberately under-funding and attacking the integrity of educational institutions?
Yeah, I wait for weeks for a normal check-in with my doctor as it is now. I can't ever go to them when I'm actually sick, cause by the time I get an appointment, it's like 1-2 weeks out. I'm no longer sick. I have to end up in minor emergency clinics all the time for just basic shit.
I love my doctor and use her any and every time I can, but it's only for pre-planned checkups. God forbid I have to wait the same amount of time as now, and it BE FREE.
Thankfully my clinic has weekend walking for registered patients. That made a huge difference. I assume they did that because patients were going to other walk in clinics instead as they couldn’t get appointments. I think my clinic also has an “urgent care” option, for people not sick enough to need to go to emergency. You can call first thing in the morning for an appointment that evening.
Having said all that, they’re starting to charge for more and more things, and trying to get people to sign up for their “insurance” plan. Thanks Ford.
This is the thing that boggles my mind about the "wait times" argument. Like, it's better that people should die without healthcare than... for me to be inconvenienced with a potentially longer wait time for non-emergency care? Really? The selfishness of it is astonishing.
I once had to wait 15 months to see a neurologist. 15 months. We already have long wait times here in the US, but we like to spice it up with a little bankruptcy.
It's true that there can be long waits. But public healthcare in Canada and in the UK is getting worse for the same reason: Conservatives refusing to fund it because they want to drive everyone into private, for-profit healthcare. It's the same reason Conservatives try to break public education and other public services: they serve only the rich who will profit from privatization while everyone else suffers.
Conservatives govern almost all Canadian provinces, which is the level at which healthcare is run. The Conservatives who are about to take over federally have explicitly stated their goal of making Canadian healthcare more like the USA's. They undermine it for ideological reasons and for their own gain.
A properly funded public healthcare system remains the best system for ordinary people.
I despise conservatives for trying to move us to the US model, especially as they’re trying to reward themselves, their buddies and anyone who has funded them. Bribery at its finest.
It's a pretty simple job though right? Just identify a shooter that's like a 100 meters away and patiently wait for them to finish shooting before you jump on the President.
But seriously, the president that actually delivers on the next new deal might get term limits removed. It was popular the first time for a reason.
I pay my portion of my health coverage at a little under 20% of my paycheck for a family plan. That is technically half since my employer pays a portion as well. If taxes would be raised to that point or even less than what I am paying now I would not care in the slightest. Hell I would welcome it. If it is more I would be a little more upset but if I do t have to pay co pays or the other crap a medical bill generates like the portion my health coverage doesn't pay than in my eyes it again balances out.
Insurance companies are a leech on the economy with predatory practices to reject claims. Single payer healthcare would fix so much wrong with us healthcare its actually ridiculous we haven't done it yet. ACA slowed the bleeding but didn't address the problem thoroughly enough. I really don't care if my taxes go up by twice what I put into healthcare (there is no way they could, but still) I'd still endorse it knowing Americans could get regular and reliable healthcare again.
Nothing so clearly states that they want to withhold human decency from people. They want people to suffer financially and physically if they don’t conform to the Republican hierarchy. Even then, there are those that must suffer, because suffering is good, to reinforce the conservative mock-piety to their Supply Side Jesus.
How absolutely terrifying. I can't imagine getting my basic human rights without some rich asshole denying them while taking my money to buy another yacht.
The rationing healthcare we have in Canada is so terrible!
I'd totally rather have a healthcare system based on extorting the weak and sick as much as possible. Our healthcare right now is way too ineffective at making public corporations and private equity money. Our government should make it a super priority to group up with the oligarchs like grocery empire Loblaws, the big 6 banks, Irving Oil, and all our American billionaire friends to intentionally short-change our healthcare system then buy it on the cheap!
Shhh, the Ontario PC doesn't want you to outright come out and say it.
As an aside, still think it's kinda fucked that the two largest lab services companies here are now both owned by American interests (Lifelabs = Quest, Dynacare = LabCorp).
She does, she has discussed a number of methods of doing so, from expanding medicaid to all Americans, to doing a few other methods of basically using the government as payee, and negotiator, for insurance coverage that will be applied to every tax payer.
Remember too that the President doesn't write the laws, and pretty much every solution for a single payer healthcare solution involves legislation.
Blaming or crediting a President for something that only Congress can do is a long American tradition, and an exceptionally stupid one we need to get over.
Oh, by doing something, I don't mean I think she would just make this law. I mean seeing her doing all she can, within her power, to accomplish this goal. Many have promised such reforms, then did little, to nothing, with the position, to accomplish that task.
Problem with that is, he HAS to win. If he doesn't, he's fucked. He'll be going to jail and that half a billion in Russia backed loans isn't going to pay itself.
His message is for those who would rather suffer than have "those" people get help.
Ironically, most of those people are on social security and Medicaid.
She would probably complain about having to pay more. Make it make sense.
She could find a doctor who only accepts private insurance if she wants. Does she not know that?
Remember through, he loves "the uneducated"
I have a Trumper friend that works at the VA. He is anti-government.
Does... Does he know?
I have no idea. I keep telling him I'm a communist and he freaks out and hangs up. 😂
You're going to have so much healthcare you'll get sick of having healthcare!
Which is super convenient...because healthcare
He tried it before, but McCain was thumbs down.
Who is going to stand up for the bankruptcy attorneys?
Oh no! I'm devastated!
It's not just that. It's also the "I don't want my tax dollars paying for some other person's health care" crowd.
"I don't want to pay $30 in taxes. I'd rather be bankrupt the next time I need medical care"
yeah... bombing kids in hospitals in Gaza and corporate tax breaks are aok... but god forbid a poor person gets affordable treatment for his cancer ?? communists !!!!!
Yeah my dumbass neighbor used to argue that he shouldn't have to pay for women's feminine care when he pays for his medical insurance. And I'm like, "Are you fucking kidding me? Do you have any idea how many male-centric diseases are covered by insurance?" Fucking stupid self-centered dipshits. And it was dumb because in every other way this guy was pretty intelligent.
"Fellas, is it gay to subsidize gynecological healthcare?"
I don't want my taxes to pay for someone else's healthcare. I want my post tax dollars to pay for wealthy CEOs' yachts, and my tax dollars to pay for some other person's healthcare but at ridiculous rates.
Particularly those people, you know? The ones I can't mention directly so I have plausible deniablity, but we all actually know who I'm talking about and it's not even a dogwhistle anymore.
I wouldn't want those people to receive qualitative care. I'd rather pay for some other person's new yacht than for these people's bare necessities.
(Sarcasm)
90% of the T**** supporters I know are just straight up assholes. The rest are confused idiots, some of whom are salvageable.
You forgot to put "millionaire" in quotes.
Right, definitely one of those things I don’t understand. For most of those people, universal healthcare can only be better than what they currently have. Haven’t they seen the mess they’re in?
I do have better health insurance than most, so there is every chance it will be worse for me. That is so worth it! At least it would be cheaper and hopefully less paperwork
I hate to break it to everyone but she does not currently support single payer nor will her presidency push for it. (At least, that's the message they're putting out right now.)
Never forget that everything Trump says is a lie, even if it's one you want to believe.
That said, I think it would be easier to drag her into it than Biden.
https://kamalaharris.medium.com/my-plan-for-medicare-for-all-7730370dd421
In 2019 she was for it.
Democrats don't want to push the envelope though so it won't happen.
If we get supermajorities in the House and Senate it might. Otherwise, you're probably right. When we have 50 dem senators and one of them is Joe Manchin, well...
Good news is we don't have to worry about Manchin anymore. Bad news is that's pretty much a GOP seat now.
Yeah, all the people bitching about Manchin never seem to get that the choice was always Manchin or a far right Republican, not Manchin or a west coast progressive.
You lost the ability to get anyone left of Manchin out of WV in 2000.
Guys, no, we just need to run a far left lefty candidate in WV. This R+40 state is absolutely clamoring to vote for socialism because reasons. The Dems won't do it, though (both sides bad). Also it has to be a Dem and not a grassroots movement because this R+40 state clamoring to vote for a real socialist needs a socialist with DNC backing before they'll stop voting for racism.
Interestingly enough, WV used to be a safe blue state for most of the state's history. Literally Gore ruined that.
Because they weren't blue due to progressive social policy, they were blue because of the unions. Gore went after the biggest union industries in the state, and no Dem since has thought how to fix it.
Of all people, Bernie did really well in the 2016 primary, but since Clinton got ~35% compared to Bernie's ~53% she of course got a majority of our state's delegates (by one).
If you wanted to get a Dem to poll well here, you'd have to drop the gun stuff almost entirely (a lot of rural folks and a lot of hunters, a lot of woods full of wild animals [and those woods are directly adjacent to most populated areas - the entire state is forested mountains], etc), not lead with the progressive social justice stuff (not denounce it, not ignore it, just not treat it as the top priority and focus of your message - it's there but it's not what you're selling yourself on), and then double down on working class concerns (this should be what you lead with and emphasize). Think something adjacent to social populism.
hilarious a state filled with fentanyl addicted welfare-queens is against socialism lol
I live near the border. that place is a dystopian redneck hellhole
Yeah well if it's anything like the Democrats were in Arizona until recently the state party is basically defunct. You'll have professional politicians running against single issue school teachers. The DNC is not good with reaching out to help state parties. A large part of the reason the GOP hasn't died from going far right is the Democrats seem happy to let them have rural states without any fight. Which of course means the people there only get one political point of view too.
We have elected officials literally making up lies about teachers here to get them fired. Our sheriff got away with it because he is immune. They used our tax dollars to pay her off he wouldn't have to get embarrassed in court before re-election
He is a hardcore Trumper
~~Democrats ~~ Liberals don't want to push the envelope
Spineless liberals are losing ground in the party. Status quo and subservience to banks is no longer popular in our party. Progressives are slowly overcoming liberals.
Liberals want to throw money at problems, ignoring root causes Progressives want to tackle the root causes
That dream was gone when Bernie got screwed over. Won't happen for a long time anyways.
That dream was gone circa 1993 when Hilary Clinton started stumping for it and became the GOP's public enemy number one.
the article says she doesn't support it
Yes, she is a Democrat.
Don't threaten me with a good time.
It's great when a quote is taken out of context, and then you look at the context, and it's even worse.
As if 150M Americans have a real choice in private insurance, or that the bureaucracy of the system doesn't already result in rationing and deadly wait times.
As a side note, Project 2025 does something similar with cars. Something to the effect of "Americans overwhelmingly prefer cars" to justify ignoring bikes or public transit projects, again as if there was a real choice being offered.
I just don't think grandma should be in front of an Obama Death Panel.
The Death Panel should be guys trying to sacrifice her to the line, someone with zero knowledge of her care typing "no" in a spreadsheet, or, fuck it, let's get an AI with a 90% error rate (always errs towards denial). Those are the right arbiters to decide the value of someone's life.
Our current death panel is just "well, she can't afford it"... just as American Jesus wants.
Supply-Side Jesus
"Her husband should have made more money."
"You could have this appendectomy and live 30 more years perfectly healthy, but we see that you are retired and not generating revenue for your betters. Denied. "
That is a bleak take on why insurance is tied to employment in America. Sounds right.
Hmm. By thinking about it at all, you thought about it for too long. I have concerns if you'll be able to deny enough people per hour. Well, we could have you do gig economy denials as a contractor until we can replace you with the LLM.
I hated that attack line so much. It was about an optional benefit that my representative wanted to add for Medicare recipients, a voluntary consultation on living wills. This had been requested by the AARP. Sarah Palin latched onto it, lied that it would press people into ending their lives, lied that it would be mandatory, lied, lied, lied, and lied some more. It really demonstrates how much Sarah Palin was a large part of the Republican Party's descent into Trumpism, though you could also trace that back to Reagan's lies about "welfare queens".
Says the guy who never came up with an alternative to Obama Care and said "who knew health insurance was so complicated?"
Get rid of private insurance! We pay a ton in premiums and they still get to decide what they want to cover. Private insurance is bullshit. I'll just laterally move that premium to socialized health care so everyone has it.
Not only do we pay a ton in premiums, when you do actually get sick, you still have to pay enough that most can't afford it. My wife was diagnosed with cancer in December 2022. I spent more than $15,000 the last two years on her treatment. I am fortunate that I could afford that (it was definitely a strain). Most cannot. I have pretty good insurance because I work for a huge company with over 100k employees. The amount of money the insurance paid would financially destroy all but the most extremely wealthy.
My dad's medical bills were over $100,000 in his first year of cancer alone. He had liver cancer which is generally hard to beat and by the time they found it, his liver was 1/3 cancer. It permeated throughout his liver and they couldn't cut it out. Chemo and radiation were the only options. He had so many drugs costing thousands of dollars each. He had a team of doctors, one for each organ system, including the oncologists. The last year or two, he spent more time in the hospital than out of it. That's no way anyone could afford that without obscene wealth.
Bet even his base hate private health insurance companies, even myself as an actuarie hate them.
There's a polling paradox. The majority of insured Americans rate their insurance as good or excellent, according to Kaiser Family Foundation polling. But if the cost, especially if they are paying full cost, polls much lower.
I think that he's trying to rile up wealthy workers and small business owners who view their (better, but more expensive) private insurance as a luxury good and fear it might be made worse or more expensive if a national Healthcare scheme were implemented. I think it's pretty clear he's also flailing and making mistakes because of it, but we shouldn't overlook that Trump does have a handle on what some slice of Americans interests are, and his stament there isn't totally insane. Shit, it might just be a reflection of his own personal fears, but there's absolutely a real constituency for it.
I'm still waiting on the taco trucks. They've barely increased in number over the last four years.
The real reason Biden's popularity was in the toilet.
What a great username
Every. Corner.
I've only seen like one since 2016. I don't get out much but he promised them on every corner so I feel like that number should be higher.
Don’t threaten me with a good time.
Seriously though, no such bill would ever make it to her desk. So I don’t know what they’re crying about.
Never let the truth get in the way of a good ol’ fashioned fear-mongering!
How messed up is the US that universal health care is fear-mongering?
But I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I used to have an American boss who felt like she needed to convince me to leave the hell-hole country I was living in. I live in Europe in one of the World's safest, most democratic, wealthiest countries. And this was during the W. Bush era. I bet she became a full MAGA trumpist.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Healthcare is Threat.
I mean supposedly MAID gets suggested or even approved way too often in Canada according to some media, so yeah? Kinda? Maybe?
Tobe fair, MAID does reduce future medical costs per patient more than most other treatments, so there is that.
It’s so incredibly messed up.
I think that the primary reason that anyone not standing to directly profit from the current system opposes universal healthcare is selfishness; they’ve worked hard to earn their (probably shitty) health insurance, and giving free health access to those they deem ‘undeserving’ devalues their own efforts.
Never mind the positive economic impacts; they wont move the needle. It’s like that one MAGA supporter said when interviewed; “they’re not hurting the_ right_ people”
Easily the single best description of American politics.
If Repubs didn't lie about their opponents, how would they campaign?
A president can do ANYTHING in an official capacity now dontcha' know
like have Trump put down? Didn't the USSC rule that is A-OK?
She could have him drone-struck in Mar-a-lago and no one could do a damn thing about it
Yup. I'm curious what "official capacity" means here. Does that mean anything goes if he says the magic words "official capacity"? Or is it more complicated than that
It's slightly more complicated than that. You have to ask "are they a Republican or a Democrat?". If the answer is Republican, it's probably an official act. If the answer is Democrat, it is not an official act. If the answer is "It's Donald Trump", then they follow up with the question "how high?".
Wow, the law is so complicated, I tell you what. Thank goodness we have highly qualified, politically neutral judges to interpret it for us.
It's carte blanche.
A president could start a national drug cartel and it would be legal
Oh dear god, You mean I'd finally have coverage, like an actual first world nation, to get my hereditary issues looked at, and treated?
DEAR GOD, THE INHUMANITY OF IT ALL.
She's going to give you the bad health care. The kind that the foreigners and the blah people get. You're not going to receive the special elite luxury care. You're going to get the same care as everyone else.
It was always a war cry for the elites. “You won’t be able to buy superior healthcare anymore. You’ll have to wait like the rest of the plebs”.
We already have ridiculous wait times. I got told by my doctor that I couldn’t reschedule my appointment because it was booked out 2 months. I had to reschedule because the office was closed for a week due to a fucking Hurricane.
You mean like medicare/medicaid?
I know people on both, they get fantastic healthcare.
Its a lot better than the big bowl of fuckall nothing I got now.
The conservative theory is that Medicaid is shit and will kill your mum.
Medicare is gold, but it only works if we ration it for Boomers exclusively.
If you "steal" private health insurance to pay for Medicaid, you're basically murdering people. If you open the doors to Medicare, you'll use up all the good medicine and "swamp the boat" as it were, ruining it for everyone currently on the plan.
Obviously, you don't need health care. You just need better bootstraps and a stronger pull.
Could you imagine universal healthcare that’s probably cheaper than the insurance you pay now?
Not having to worry about who’s in and out of network?
The horror!
The stress of not knowing if you have enough change to pay for the hospital's parking is unbearable. Worse, can you imagine the danger of living a life without the financial stress of breaking a leg?
I could finally be brave enough to pursue my dream of acting!
Not having to wait 45 business days to get your out-of-network claims reimbursed just for your insurance to tell you they never got the claim and please resubmit. Which I've done. At the end of September it will be another 45 business days. This is for a weekly therapy that I expect to be covered 80% because it's out of network but maybe it isn't because fuck me and I won't know until I've been going for at least 15 weeks.
Someone in my family has medicare and it is absolutely fantastic insurance. You automatically get the very best prices on everything, because all the profiteering charges are automatically removed. I live in a large city and every doctor I've ever dealt with takes it because there are no insurance hassles, either for the doctor or for you. I'm talking about real medicare and not medicare disadvantage.
She’s a monster! A monster I tell you!
https://www.npr.org/2020/10/19/925354134/frame-canada
As a Canadian, I'll be the first to say that our system isn't perfect. If you've got a chronic but not life-threatening condition, like a need for knee or hip surgery, you could spend a long time on a waiting list. There are certainly lots of affluent Canadians who opt to step out of that line to get treatment at private for-profit clinics, both domestically and abroad. There's always a shortage of something. Qualified doctors, nurses, family practitioners, CT or MRI machines, etc.
That being said, if you do have a life-threatening condition, the Canadian healthcare system can work pretty well. My step father had pneumonia Nov./Dec. last year, chest xray revealed something concerning beyond the pneumonia, by early January biopsies has been done, by February he'd started radiation, six or so weeks of that, then monitoring for a while and now he's in remission. Everything moved fast, because he had a time-critical condition. Total cost to my family: zero dollars (setting aside costs for gas, parking, snacks for stress-eating, etc.). I couldn't imagine a family going through the same situation in the US.
This is going to sound crazy, but that's also the case in the US. Months to see a specialist. Referred to another specialist. Wait months for an opening. It took me over a year of sporadic appointments just to get an epidural for back pain. It was ridiculous. All using "efficient" for-profit organizations where you pay out the ass for premiums and then they extract the rest through your dickhole if you dare to seek care.
There's also the self-imposed delays. How many days of waiting are racked up by Americans saying "let's see what happens" because of the prohibitive cost of accessing care?
I wonder what it looks like if you start the clock not at "You need hip replacement" but rather "My hip is acting up".
My aunt in Canada has had 2 hip replacements. And while she did have to wait, which is worse: waiting and not being in crushing medical debt? Or waiting a bit and having almost no costs?
Same for my father in law. If he were a US citizen he'd probably be bankrupt right now, or more likely just still be in pain because he couldn't afford the surgery in the first place.
If you compared wait times in Canada versus wait times in the U.S., Canada would probably be shorter overall.
The U.S. system creates artificial shortages in many different areas. They seek optimal profitablity by staffing slightly below what the need requires. This shortage justifies charging higher prices.
You can also probably blame some of the long wait times in Canada for things on the U.S. Specialist in the U.S. make a lot more money.
Here is Texas it is not uncommon when you have a health issue and call your primary doctor, to be told that they don't have any open appts for weeks and be told to go see an urgent care clinic instead. For profit primary doctors tend to arrange things so that all their time is filled up with non urgent "routine followups" or "annual checkups" and stuff that they have no time for any urgent medicare problems.
It depends who you're comparing. For the average US or Canadian citizen, I'm sure you're correct. If you look at income levels I bet it's a different story. The poor and middle class (whatever's left of it) have to wait, the rich have the option of paying out of pocket. If I wanted to have a whole-body MRI scan done, I could get one next week for $3200. Wouldn't even need to be sick! Requires a referral, but you can "obtain one virtually from (their) physician partners" and you know their "physician partners," aren't going to turn away business.
You get told it's just pneumonia, but it keeps coming back for years.
Eventually someone figures it out and says you have mesothelioma. You travel the country for a few years, looking for treatment wherever you can. It costs everything you have.
Somewhere along the way, you have to put down $120,000 in cash for a surgery that gives you a few more years. But your last years are still mostly pain and exhaustion.
I wish my uncle hadn't died the way he did.
there isn't a Canadian system, there are a bunch of provincial systems.
Don't threaten us with a good time, orange man!
The reach around we've been waiting for!
Is he threatening us with a good time?
Oh the humanity
What in the bizarro world fuck is his point? That would be awesome!
His point is just to find a way to scare his voters by calling her a communist. It's the most pathetic attack ever.
This bullshit about rationing and deadly wait times can only work on the most ignorant people who don't realize healthcare is better and more affordable in many other countries.
There may be a bit of "she won't hurt the right people" in there too.
And yet people will fall for it. I swear they are beyond help. I listened to some of the boring travesty that is his latest press conference and - besides his notably low energy - it seems the lies are just getting bigger and more absurd. It boggles the mind that a huge chunk of the American people will listen to that drivel and nod and mutter "yeah sounds right".
All this just reinforces how much of a cult MAGA is. He could say some outrageous shit like he was going to sacrifice his followers first born when he gets in office and I swear 95% of them would be like “oh cool”.
The whole thing is wild. I grew up in a Christian family… which republicans claim to be. If I did a tenth of what this dickhead does I’d get disowned so fast. His whole base thinks his shit don’t stink.
They absolutely will. By the truckloads, no less. You just can’t change stupid people. It’s a plague.
It's more than just being about "stupid" people though. After all, who benefits from deliberately under-funding and attacking the integrity of educational institutions?
Ironically Taiwan has universal health care and Communist China has employer based health care.
He's not wrong about the wait times. It's very true here in Canada.
We already have wait times in the US too. That's a funding and organizational problem, not a universal care problem.
There's only one reason why this is a pipe dream: there's no political will to do it.
You know what has a longer wait time?
Not having medical coverage.
Depends, I have a Canadian friend who got same day brain surgery, because it actually was an emergency. Most medical problems can stand a wait.
That being said, yeah waiting sucks. And yeah, the US has months long waiting periods too.
Yeah, I wait for weeks for a normal check-in with my doctor as it is now. I can't ever go to them when I'm actually sick, cause by the time I get an appointment, it's like 1-2 weeks out. I'm no longer sick. I have to end up in minor emergency clinics all the time for just basic shit.
I love my doctor and use her any and every time I can, but it's only for pre-planned checkups. God forbid I have to wait the same amount of time as now, and it BE FREE.
Thankfully my clinic has weekend walking for registered patients. That made a huge difference. I assume they did that because patients were going to other walk in clinics instead as they couldn’t get appointments. I think my clinic also has an “urgent care” option, for people not sick enough to need to go to emergency. You can call first thing in the morning for an appointment that evening.
Having said all that, they’re starting to charge for more and more things, and trying to get people to sign up for their “insurance” plan. Thanks Ford.
Imagine how long people have to wait if they are poor in the U.S.
This is the thing that boggles my mind about the "wait times" argument. Like, it's better that people should die without healthcare than... for me to be inconvenienced with a potentially longer wait time for non-emergency care? Really? The selfishness of it is astonishing.
I once had to wait 15 months to see a neurologist. 15 months. We already have long wait times here in the US, but we like to spice it up with a little bankruptcy.
This isn't because healthcare is publicly funded.
It's true that there can be long waits. But public healthcare in Canada and in the UK is getting worse for the same reason: Conservatives refusing to fund it because they want to drive everyone into private, for-profit healthcare. It's the same reason Conservatives try to break public education and other public services: they serve only the rich who will profit from privatization while everyone else suffers.
Conservatives govern almost all Canadian provinces, which is the level at which healthcare is run. The Conservatives who are about to take over federally have explicitly stated their goal of making Canadian healthcare more like the USA's. They undermine it for ideological reasons and for their own gain.
A properly funded public healthcare system remains the best system for ordinary people.
I absolutely agree.
I despise conservatives for trying to move us to the US model, especially as they’re trying to reward themselves, their buddies and anyone who has funded them. Bribery at its finest.
FYI, in case you didn’t know, you can use the following syntax to inline your images:
eg,
Every American having access to decent healthcare will cause a true meltdown of the GOP.
Now that is an endorsement :)
If she did that I'd volunteer for her USSS detail. Can we be the Democrats the Republicans say we are?
I wouldn't - I want her to live.
It's a pretty simple job though right? Just identify a shooter that's like a 100 meters away and patiently wait for them to finish shooting before you jump on the President.
But seriously, the president that actually delivers on the next new deal might get term limits removed. It was popular the first time for a reason.
You forgot about grabbing the President's special lift shoes after he gets shot at.
I pay my portion of my health coverage at a little under 20% of my paycheck for a family plan. That is technically half since my employer pays a portion as well. If taxes would be raised to that point or even less than what I am paying now I would not care in the slightest. Hell I would welcome it. If it is more I would be a little more upset but if I do t have to pay co pays or the other crap a medical bill generates like the portion my health coverage doesn't pay than in my eyes it again balances out.
Insurance companies are a leech on the economy with predatory practices to reject claims. Single payer healthcare would fix so much wrong with us healthcare its actually ridiculous we haven't done it yet. ACA slowed the bleeding but didn't address the problem thoroughly enough. I really don't care if my taxes go up by twice what I put into healthcare (there is no way they could, but still) I'd still endorse it knowing Americans could get regular and reliable healthcare again.
It'd be nice, but it won't happen.
Promise?
you promise?
What a nightmare lol
Nothing so clearly states that they want to withhold human decency from people. They want people to suffer financially and physically if they don’t conform to the Republican hierarchy. Even then, there are those that must suffer, because suffering is good, to reinforce the conservative mock-piety to their Supply Side Jesus.
OOOOHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
How absolutely terrifying. I can't imagine getting my basic human rights without some rich asshole denying them while taking my money to buy another yacht.
Don't threaten me with a good time.
No. Please. Stop.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vn4nyfzETQ&t=71s&pp=2AFHkAIB
Well I would just be aghast, aghast I say!
Why does Trump threaten the us to be first class ? I thought he was about making it great or something
God, if only...
Another outrageous lie. He can't keep getting away with it.
The rationing healthcare we have in Canada is so terrible!
I'd totally rather have a healthcare system based on extorting the weak and sick as much as possible. Our healthcare right now is way too ineffective at making public corporations and private equity money. Our government should make it a super priority to group up with the oligarchs like grocery empire Loblaws, the big 6 banks, Irving Oil, and all our American billionaire friends to intentionally short-change our healthcare system then buy it on the cheap!
Shhh, the Ontario PC doesn't want you to outright come out and say it.
As an aside, still think it's kinda fucked that the two largest lab services companies here are now both owned by American interests (Lifelabs = Quest, Dynacare = LabCorp).
this is just an onion headline the onion didn't do because they would feel like they were glazing Harris without merit
Not the best comment from Trump.
Promise ʘ‿ʘ
Everybody but his sorry ass. Warnings are for bad things. He is a bad thing so be warned
Uh......and?
No no no. You are not understanding this. Everyone - like even poors.
Is this Don's way of getting with the winning team; by campaigning for her? What a way to turn off the youts, offer free health care. Brilliant!
Harris doesn't support single payer?
She does, she has discussed a number of methods of doing so, from expanding medicaid to all Americans, to doing a few other methods of basically using the government as payee, and negotiator, for insurance coverage that will be applied to every tax payer.
Will she really do anything? Yet to be seen.
Remember too that the President doesn't write the laws, and pretty much every solution for a single payer healthcare solution involves legislation.
Blaming or crediting a President for something that only Congress can do is a long American tradition, and an exceptionally stupid one we need to get over.
Oh, by doing something, I don't mean I think she would just make this law. I mean seeing her doing all she can, within her power, to accomplish this goal. Many have promised such reforms, then did little, to nothing, with the position, to accomplish that task.
Does he realize how much he is helping her? This just shows how far out of touch he is. Is it stupidity or dementia? Both?
I'm STILL waiting for a taco truck on every corner goddamnit
There should also be gambling odds for "legitimately doesn't want to be president, would rather throw delusional tantrum about a stolen election"
Problem with that is, he HAS to win. If he doesn't, he's fucked. He'll be going to jail and that half a billion in Russia backed loans isn't going to pay itself.
A vote for Bart is a vote for anarchy.
He meant to say socialism
Oh no! Don't do that! We would hate it!
/s in case it wasn't obvious
Terrifying.
https://archive.li/jyrfk
Referring to current private healthcare.
I want to find that pic of republican protesters with signs that say stuff like "Tax cuts for the rich", "we don't need healthcare" and such...
Oh no, whatever will you do with healthcare?!
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