Google Allows Creditors to Brick Your Phone
I installed NetGuard about a month ago and blocked all internet to apps, unless they're on a whitelist. No notifications from this particular system app (that can't be disabled) until recently when it started making internet connection requests to google servers. Does anyone know when this became a thing?
Edit 2: I bought my Pixel 6 phone outright, directly from Google's Australian store. I have no creditors.
Were the courts not enough control for creditors? Since when are they allowed to lock you out of your purchased property without a court order?
I don't even live in the US, so what the actual fuck?
Edit 1: You can check it's installed (stock Pixel 6 android 14) Settings > Apps > All Apps > three dot menu, Show system > search "DeviceLockController".
I highly recommend getting NetGuard, you can enable pro features via their website if you have the APK for as low as 0.10€, but donate more, because it's amazing. You can also purchase via Google Play store.
In 2020 Google claimed it was supposed to be limited to a single region in partnership with a single carrier. And was never meant to be put up on Play Store.
Source: https://www.xda-developers.com/google-device-lock-controller-banks-payments/
Of course, it was a lie since it's still on Play Store an of today and in use.
It must be globally, I'm in Australia. What utter bullshit, since I would have never known if it weren't for my NetGuard firewall app.
Being Australian this is likely one to report to the ACCC, as Aussies at least have basic consumer protection, though that get murky with overseas tech entities.
Unfortunately the ACCC gives fewer fucks than you may expect. An airline once cancelled a flight on me and kept the cancellation fee, despite producing no evidence that any government had forced them to cancel the flight (this was during COVID).
ACCC did not care one bit
So while we do have some consumer protection (better than most) I would be surprised if they cared.
It's 5 minutes out of your life to try, as an aussie, please do, for charity if nothing else, who knows, you might benefit...
I am a serial complaint lodger, just that I'm much busier than I used to be. I may do it once I figure out what's going on with it on my phone.
Fair cop.
Thanks for you understanding friendo 🇦🇺
If it tickles your fancy, I once lodged a complaint with the national measurement institute to get a bar to stop selling American pints.
And they now sell it by the mL, beautiful
I mostly agree, but you gotta admit the EU has been sticking it to the tech giants lately.
Definitely report this to the accc
I'm in Australia, and when I search for Device Lock Controller in Play Store, it says "This app is not available in your region"
This happens on 2 separate devices from different manufacturers. Both devices were purchased in Australia and have Australian ROMs
Check your installed apps (I left an edit in th post where to check). Just because it's not listen in the Playstore for Australia, doesn't mean it's not installed.
Yeah, I checked installed apps (checked system apps), and I don't have it installed on either of my devices
What model do you have, out of curiosity?
I'm using CalyxOS and it's pre-installed as a system app, so this seems like something that's being built in at the AOSP level of development.
DivestOS here, it's not in my ROM.
Are you looking at system apps? It's installed as a system app on my phone using GrapheneOS
com.android.devicelockcontrollerLooks like it's an AOSP app
I see it on Graphene too, took away its network perms at least.
Yep, I checked a few places, in the end ClassyShark seemed to be the best place to see everything.
I don't doubt it's part of AOSP, but that doesn't mean it needs to be left in the ROM.
iodéOS here and I can't find it on my phone either (yes I looked at the system apps)
Can't find it in OxygenOS
Did you check your system apps? It's an AOSP app, so I would be surprised if this were the case. It could be under either
com.googleorcom.android.Yeah I did it's not there
I still would be very surprised if this were the case. Unfortunately it seems that OxygenOS does not have public repositories to actually check the source code (!), but there are apps that will actually show you all of your installed packages and I bet one of those would show that it's installed.
I've got it on OOS14, I've got an EU OP11
FWIW, I just searched it up and it's listed as unavailable in my region (USA) 🤷♂️ so at the very least, they scoped it down a little bit
So they region locked it from US, but it can still be pre-installed as a system app from AOSP. And it's available in EU, while was meant to be in Kenya only.
Just because it's not in the Playstore, doesn't mean it's not installed.
It's not listed in the Australian Playstore either, yet here we are with it making internet requests.
It's definitely installed.
I checked and don't see it. So either my phone is too old, or is exempt since I bought from Google Fi.
From reading the comments, I think it's on all newer Android phones (perhaps Android 13+?). My phone is probably just too old.
I see it on my pixel 5a on Android 14 as well. Guess that solidifies my decision to move to Apple once this phone dies
Checked my pixel 6 and it's on mine. Might not be in the store for everyone, but it's installed on my owned device.
I'm surprised it would be on the play store since presumably if you were a carrier or creditor of some kind you want this installed in a pretty clandestine way and wouldn't want to draw attention to it by having an app store listing.
Being on the play store means it can be updated and managed like a normal app and not stuck on whatever version shipped with the OS
I'd assume they want to be able to update it and that's why it needs a store listing.
This type of tech is already being put into vehicles as well. I used to get laughed at 20 years ago when I predicted this. Nobody is laughing anymore. If anything, they just accept it.
Sigh. Way too much freeze in fight, flight or freeze...
https://neuroclastic.com/the-6fs-of-trauma-responses/
Don't forget the 3 other Fs! Fawn(Friend), Flood, and Fatigue/Flop
Well, that was depressing (irony intended). Thanks for the thinking...
your self driving car will just drive itself back to the lot when your payment is late
shhhhh
That's cool. I was envisioning something even worse. Maybe in cahoots with the IRS they wait till you were also late on your taxes and did a double whammy
People laughed at Stallman, too. But I'm not comparing you to him. He's apparently a real POS.
Nah, he's difficult to work with for sure, and rather extremist, but unfortunately he is a lot of right on the money. I wouldn't call that a pos
most of this "he's a pos" comes from the misconceptions about him. he has a certain fixation to the vocabulary, and he often corrects others for it. then those people take the "attempt to correct" as "support" for the debate itself.
I think this is an extremely generous take. For anyone not in the loop, he gets called POS for famously weighing in on discussions of pedophelia by saying children 13+ aren't children so it's not pedophelia.
I think this goes beyond being bad at knowing when to correct semantics
Nah, I truly believe he is that awkward and tone-deaf.
I do too, but I think being that tone deaf after being called out says a lot, and I think it's pretty good reason to not make blanket endorsements for his statements/beliefs
he wasn't tone dead in that case you mentioned. he has since changed his thoughts about it.
Sure. The only "blanket" statements I'm willing to give are limited to his work on Free Software. His statements on pretty much everything else should probably just be ignored.
Not that it excuses his behavior but isn't he on the autism spectrum? People on the spectrum sometimes have no filter and are very literal. Like saying a 13 year old is more adolescent than child.
I think that even that is more bad phrasing on his end than him being a pedophile. Beyond weird opinions, there is no evidence at all that he is a pedo
But there is evidence that he defends it, and that he refused to back down after being called out. He is not a good person to look up to, and willfully makes harmful public statements, and willfully stabds by them. In other words, kinda a POS
Dropping ddevault's recent post about RMS here
That's an interesting read, and his views are more extreme than I thought. But I sort of agree that some unification of terminology and legislation would make situation better (maybe just not in a way he proposes). E.g. age of consent may differ by about 6 years in different places, that's quite awful.
link to the said discussion
swith his actual thoughts at the timeYet he still qualifies that statement:
link to his current site. scroll down to children
Requests the app made today.
This is my phone I own outright, by the way. I don't have any creditors.
Update for those curious:
adb shell pm uninstall --user 0 com.google.android.devicelockcontrollerIf you're using Shelter, then in addition to that command, replace
--user 0with--user 10You don't need root to do this. You can also uninstall other bloatware using this same method.
Hero, I just have to get around to doing it 😅 (I will, but grumble, grumble this is why most people don't bother battling for privacy)
I tried this on a Pixel 7 and am getting:
panther:/ $ pm uninstall --user 0 com.google.android.devicelockcontrollerFailure [DELETE_FAILED_INTERNAL_ERROR]I also tried disable and got:
Cannot disable a protected package: com.google.android.devicelockcontrollerAh. I guess you have to have root, then.
New to this depth of phone administration, where are you entering this command? Is there a developer CLI I should be looking for or is this done with a third party app or something?
Look up "adb" or "Android platform tools" on your favorite search engine. It's something you do on your PC with your phone plugged in.
Right on, thank you!
You could also give Shizuku a try! Connects to android's adb bridge over WiFi, right from your phone! From there you can use something like termux to shell straight into your phone!
I find it interesting that yours is
com.google.android.devicelockcontroller.I checked mine on GrapheneOS and it looks like it's the AOSP version of the package:
com.android.devicelockcontrollerWhat app are you using to see this traffic?
https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard
https://netguard.me
Thank you!
Mvp comment there. I checked mine and I am in the US, on a phone I originally bought on credit. I do not have that app installed. Go figure. 🤷♂️
Definitely worth checking out your app list to make sure. I wonder if it accidentally came downstream from AOSP into the alt ROMs, and that's why it's not in my stock, proprietary, US market, flagship Google pixel device.
I am at such a loss, because I can see it in NetGuard, and open it's app details from there, but it doesn't work even appear in system apps in Shelter.
Just following up that it is indeed in my apps list
Can you tell me what is this app? Edit, I found it, it's NetGuard
At least it's open-source: https://android.googlesource.com/platform/packages/modules/DeviceLock/+/refs/heads/main/DeviceLockController/
And that'd be why custom roms have it. It's part of the base Android system.
I was able to start some of its private activities with ActivityLauncher as root. Most of them just crash immediately, but the help page is available. And yikes, they got them covered against a possible bypass, no developer tools or sideloading.
Still disappointed this is shipped in LineageOS, but I suspect not for much longer with that publicity.
So, that looks like this is less insane than it sounded... This is for if you buy your phone on a payment plan? Not for creditors more generally to have a option to repossess/dispossess your phone?
This is what small claims court is for. To me there is no excuse for this.
Yeah, this is likely something that's configured on an OS level to talk to some server when being sold.
However, note that SIM cards can have a flag that might enable this app (given how much power sim cards have over phones)
Note: no source, just assumptions
Edit: second note: this app isn't present on my EU OnePlus Nord.
Usually a financed devicd is financed through the carrier, and therefore a carrier branded device, and therefore locked to the carrier (yes they have the unlock option but compatibility tends to be far more limited than on the manufacturer unlocked version of the model)
If you look at the bottom it says once the device is paid off they can no longer access/change settings
Assuming there are no additional backdoors...
Coz we all trust in that...
That is both Google's official version and what it looks like poking at it.
I haven't dug in the code, so I don't know if this is theoretically possible for a shady carrier to enable after the fact. But it very much looks like a dormant feature nobody uses.
I guess I could see that making sense in poorer countries where carriers might have issues of people signing up for phone plans and never paying. A carrier locked flip phone was pretty useless, but nowadays cutting your phone/data off is more of an inconvenience than a dealbreaker, you've still got WiFi and a nice phone.
On my lineage for micro G install it's not present (or at least I didn't spot it) maybe it's a regional thing? I'm not in the us
I'm using a fresh install of GrapheneOS, and this is installed too. Not sure what that suggests, except that it's possibly some core system level app.
Oh jesus, that's crazy that it's on GrapheneOS too.
Edit: I'm on a no-longer-supported GrapheneOS install on a Pixel 3a. I've checked and it's not there for me. I also don't live in the US (like OP). I wonder when it would've been added?
There's little to no info out there, but I did see some suggestions on a forum, that it may also be installed when setting up a Work profile. I use Shelter to create said isolated Work profile. I wonder if that's a possibile explanation.
This may be the case, as I also have a work profile set up via Shelter.
Weird that it's installed in GrapheneOS also though.
In any case, even if setting up a work profile, it should just not be installed.
A potential backdoor as a ransomware exploit for anyone who has a work profile on their phone, I would guess. Unless there are other apps bundled with android that also lock you out of your phone.
Seems unlikely if you outright own it, this is for bought on a plan type stuff, no ?
Edit: On further reading, apparently not. WTAF?
According to people from GrapheneOS these are two different things:
https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/11639-device-lock-controller/9
Using Lineage and I dont have it. Sucks for people using Google crap
Out of curiosity, you're specifically checking in the system apps?
Thats interesting, I am using lineage as well (oneplus 6t) and do have the app
com.android.devicelockcontroller. This could be some junk added when I enable the gapps magisk module which I generaly keep dissabled though.Yeah dont use gapps.
I've installed graphene on my phone a while ago (bought from a carrier in germany) and this app does not exist.
edit: nevermind, it's there
That's deeply disturbing, what else could be hiding next to it? I sort of hope it's somehow being installed by your phone company, as bad as that is, the alternative is worse!
I mean, I bought my Pixel 7a unlocked and paid in full, from Google. And my assumption has always been that when GrapheneOS is flashed, any previous stock bloat is wiped.
Righteous assumption. That it is not, requires investigation. That's some serious BS.
I also have it on the latest version of GrapheneOS
Remember when Google said don't be evil. Ha
I think it was "don't. Be evil."
"Don't be." -Evil
It was actually closer to: you don't have to be evil to make money
But they've definitely lost their way
Well yeah, you don't need to be evil to make money, but you can make more money by being evil.
So, don't be evil until you have a commanding market presence, and then be evil to make even more money.
Seems to be the MO of any large org.
'Dont be evil' was a warning to the users...cause google be watching you.
It was a command to the slaves using their services: “Don’t be evil.(We will know and judge)”
Their definition of evil was insubordination, their way of telling people to listen to them, while also trying to legitimize their message.
I know this is a privacy community, but I'm not sure I'm onboard with the outrage on this particular one. If you rent/lease or go on a payment plan for the device you're using, then it isn't yours, it belongs to the entity you borrowed it from.
If I don't make car payments, the bank can repossess my ride. If I dont pay my mortgage or rent, I can be evicted by my landlord or bank.
If I don't make my phone payment, the company should have recourse to prevent me from using their device.
This could open up the ability for bad actors to disable my device, and I agree that's a horrible prospect. But the idea of a legitimate creditor using this feature to reclaim their property is not something I find shocking.
All your points are sound. The issue that I have with this is that remote disable functionality is not necessary to achieve any of these aims. Before they were connected to the internet, people were still able to rent/lease autos and the world managed to survive just fine. There were other ways for lenders to get remunerated for breaking lease terms - they could issue an additional charge, get a court order for repossession, etc. Remote disable was never needed or warranted.
So let's start by considering the due process here. Before, there was some sort of process involved in the repossession act. With remote disable however, the lender can act as judge, jury and executioner so to speak - that party can unilaterally disable the device with no oversight. And if the lender is in the wrong, there is likely no recourse. Another potential issue here is that the lender can change the terms at any time - it can arbitrarily decide that it doesn't like what you're doing with the device, decide you're in breach, and hit that remote kill switch. A lot of these things could technically happen before too, but the barriers have been dramatically lowered now.
On top of this, there are great privacy concerns as well. What kinds of additional information does the lender have? What right do they have to things like our location, our habits, when we use it, and all of the other personal details that they can infer from programs like this?
There are probably lots of other issues here, but another part of the problem is that we can't even start to imagine what kinds of nefarious behaviors they can execute with this new information and power. We are well into the age where our devices are becoming our enemies instead of our advocates. I shudder to think what the world would look like 20 years from now if this kind of behavior isn't stopped.
Perfectly stated! The moralizing story kind of serves as cover, as a complete blank check to excuse practically any behavior of the lender, without any limiting principle.
Exactly. These types of changes grant corporations extrajudicial power.
Oh nono no, the world is much worse than that:
If you make all your car payments on time except one, the bank can still repossess your car.
If you pay your mortgage or rent on time every time except once, the bank can initiate the process of eviction.
Remember: the power triangle points down
I paid off a car without ever being late, and they reported my account as unpaid and in collections at the end. They had no reason to do so and to this day I still don't understand why they did it. I contested it and the best I was able to accomplish was getting the entire loan removed from my credit report. So 2 entire years of on-time payments and satisfactory completion of a loan resulted in no positive credit boost for me, and a big PITA, just because the company made a mistake. Companies are not responsible enough to wield the type of power that this app grants.
Yes? That's why loans with collateral charge a lower interest rate than unsecured loans.
My point being that if said bank screws up whilst dealing with your loan, and you make a fuss to hold them accountable, the worse thing that happens to them is that they issue an apology.
Not an unreasonable thought, but my question is what is the process to disable? In your examples, there are legal steps/requirements to repossess those assets.
In this case I can't imagine the process is longer than "press the brick button and extort money"
Is it extortion if it's contractually obliged?
¯_(ツ)_/¯ eye of the beholder I suppose
That’s not how it works, at least in Spain.
I agree completely, but it's an odd way to go about repossession.
And there's the rub. Sure, it's a financed phone. It doesn't follow that we have to suspend judgment on the means they resort to, to enforce their terms.
I find it funny how differently Lemmy reacts to something like this vs reddit. The Lemmy community is certainly very different than reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/jpdup2/google_app_lets_banks_lock_your_phone_if_you_dont/
What about for people like me?
I bought my device outright. No loans, no payment plans and no reason for that functionality to exist on my phone. Yet there it is, just waiting to be taken advantage of whether there is a valid reason or not.
This is the kind of apathy that leads to phrases like, "If only we had known" but we do ... and do nothing about it.
I can and will at least do my part for myself and encourage others to do the same.
When I saw this on a custom ROM, it was basically the same thing, but said that my financial institution or whoever had admin access to my phone, including seeing texts and everything else, until my phone was paid off. Still not sure why that was there in a custom ROM, but I ended up not using it.
For every single one of those scenarios, a set of legal processes need to be exhausted. This app gives the lender the ability to do whatever they want, whenever they want, without following a set of legal processes.
That's dystopian mentality at it's greatest.
-Cory Doctorow from his blog, unintentionally addressing you
Version 14 is installed on my Pixel 7 in the USA. I bought this phone outright, no credit, directly from the Google store.
Did you hit the three dots on the top right and select "show system"? It only shows after that.
I get this from the Google Play store:
So, cool?
I bought mine from Google Fi w/ cash and have never used it on a major carrier. I'm guessing it's a carrier thing, and not a stock Android thing.
No, it may not appear in the appstore (doesn't for me), but does appear in my apps (when you show system apps)
Mine doesn't appear in either for me, and I did show system apps. It must be a recent Android thing because my phone is almost 5 years old.
Good to hear! And thanks for providing this data point. I may get around to doing a survey, and trying to rope in some people who know their way around android development to see what's going on here.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.devicelock (via this comment 15 hours ago...)
Looks like I'm good.
That entire idea is terrifying.
anyone remember the time when google removed(!) their internal "don't be evil" rule? guess this is part of the outcome of that "be evil" that came along with removal of the opposite. Abuse of this mechanism is IMHO veery predictable ;-)
There are plenty of google-free cellphones, one could easily stick to better products of better companies. help yourself, google's not gonna do that for you within the next 5billion* years as they IMHO already stated they "want" to be evil now, always remember that ;-)
*) thats round about when our sun expands too much for earth, so i currently dislike doing any predictions beyond that point ;-) i do not predict google would last that long, only that they'll keep beeing evil until their end.
I remember when media falsely reported clickbait articles that they did and people bring that up to this day. They moved it from the introduction to the closing statement. Which you can argue makes it less prominent or whatever, but it was never removed.
Of course it makes no difference, it wasn't followed either way, and definitely isn't followed now. But no, it was never removed. You can see it yourself right here at the end: https://abc.xyz/investor/google-code-of-conduct/
The only reason this ever got any attention was to push an agenda.
effectively redundant statement
And yet it needs to be said because even 6 years after this didn't happen people are still convinced that it did. It's brought up way too often and I'm beyond tired of it at this point. Hate on Google for things they actually do, not because they moved 3 words to the bottom of a webpage.
my point was that the only reason anything ever receives attention in any way is due to an agenda
Context is key. It went from
Google Code of Conduct is one of the ways we put “Don’t be evil” into practice
to
And remember... don’t be evil, and if you see something that you think isn’t right – speak up!
So from a "we won't be evil" to telling others to not be evil.
So yes, the context in which the statement was applied, means its very basis was removed.
hm you have a point that it might not have been removed completely, but the problem with that point that i personally have is that this reached me too late to just believe it was really never removed. For some reasons i would not believe blindly in "evidences" that are in control of the one that is in question and could manipulate it later for such claims and also was experienced to not be trustworthy for what they say..
saying that, there are ways to check if something was there at a time or not. the one source i know that could help here only seems to store records from 29th jun 2023 18:44:33 onwards which is too late for this.
https://web.archive.org/web/20240000000000*/https://abc.xyz/investor/google-code-of-conduct/
you are right, it does not make a difference in if they can be trusted, but it makes a difference in why not and what to expect if you do so despite the red flags or -as a gov- just let things go on. A person who by accident was speeding should maybe be treated differenrly than a person who intentionally(!) does so while risking others lifes. and what would be more proof of intention than a written statement or removed canary? thus such a statement does make a difference in terms of they just cannot handle their stuff, don't care at all or maybe even have evil intentions.
examples:
some kids making a fire in the forest cause they don't know the risks
vs.
some young adults making a fire in the woods cause they just don't care despite knowing the risks
vs.
a company making fire in the woods because its cheaper to do stuff there and they lack the resouces to do it safe and someone else will pay the firefighters anyway.
vs.
a company stating to want to do so cause they like it despite they could afford doing it secure but just no one could or would sue them anyway.
while i don't want to say google is like no.4 here, to me these examples all make huge differences, no matter if the woods actually cought fire or not.
Devs still need to eat so we will need a better alternative to adsense. As long as we depend on these corporate services their stranglehold will only continue strengthen like this.
No one really depends on these corporate services. People are just too lazy and conformist to give up on the convenience that they bring.
I agree. Also addicted. There are a few silver linings but I'm increasingly of the opinion that most technology is more trouble than it's worth.
https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/82ule/will_code_html_for_food_pic/
not only devs 😜
Google-free phones? What are they? I know only Pinephone and Librem 5.
ok, i have to admit, that i was thinking of google-"services" free phones like the new ones from huawei. but sure android is made by google (but not "owned" by them). however i can try to "rescue" my argument by saying something like "just use a nokia 3310! they're still working and the batterie should still last a week if not more" ;-)
however projects like lineage os might be a good choice to have threeth (as in more than "both"), more security, less dependency from google, and also more influence on the actual software included in the build, if it's not even possible to just compile it yourself and have freedom of changing every line of code as you wish.
Huawei doesn't even provide possibility to unlock bootloader, so it's big NO. Currently I'm using Lineage OS on my primary phone and Linux on secondary phone. But the main problem is big amount of proprietary staff like modems, that can even work bypassing SOC and OS. I found only one phone with truly open-source hardware. It's Liberty phone from Purism. It costs 2000$ and has perfomance comparable to 50$ Android phone.
my idea currently is to finish some projects that have priority and afterwards then look for lineage os on raspberry pi, combined with gsm modem and maybe a gps module, all powered by a slim powerbank. might make up a huge bulky phone but i almost want to start building it now. On the other hand if i wait until my other projects are finished, the whole thing might be ready made available for self assembly...
I thought about it too, but I want to make a tablet based on RPI 5. I have a 3D printer, so I hope to be able to make an adequately sized case.
Google made the app.
They say it was made at the behest of a service provider in Kenya. Given that I can't find the app and it's not on my phone I'm inclined to believe them. It certainly sounds like something a service provider would request too.
EDIT: Someone else pointed out you have to toggle show system apps to see it and I see it after doing that.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.devicelock
There you go. Just so you know, you could've Googled this instead of making a pedantic ass of yourself.
lol, what? i did, in another comment, shortly before you posted this. here it is again: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.devicelock
you will own nothing and be happy
The fun aspect to this is that some banks have forced customers to use an Android for all their banking ops. So:
① You’re late paying a bill
② Creditor locks your phone
③ You cannot access your bank to make the payment because your phone is locked
Brilliant.
Yeah it's because they ship the same OS image for everyone, be it US on a carrier plan or otherwise. Google services has complete control over your device (more than just locking it down), and that's what you should be upset about. For you that app is just harmless bloat, what's actually spooky is google play services as a system app. Do yourself a favor and install grapheneOS.
That's just disgusting, but still so normal in the market religion. Google act as judge and executioner above all local laws. Never ever buy a phone that can't be rooted and reconfigured. ..oh, and never again deal with anything Google.. ..oh, or any other big US tech for that matter. ..fuckit, never deal with ANY Capitalist cheater/scumbag unless you have to.
Unfortunately GrapheneOS still only supports Google Pixels, otherwise I would use something else in a heartbeat
Use Lineage OS
I did before I used Graphene, and my experience was a lot worse to be honest. Has it improved over the last two years?
You are much better off using a Pixel with GrapheneOS as far as privacy and security are concerned. Believe it or not, Google Pixels are the best smartphones to use de-googled. Truly outstanding.
Look up why Graphene team only supports these phones, it's on their FAQ page.
What was wrong with it?
Lots of apps straight up didn't work, that was the main thing. The other thing was I had to use a VPN app to block app network access, something that is a built in feature of Graphene. Further, Graphene has much more built in security features including actually using secure boot.
Did you get your apps from F-droid? I run Lineage completely stock with F-droid. It might be good to make a distinction between regular Lineage OS and Google Lineage OS.
I'm not to the point where I can use 100% F-Droid apps, unfortunately.
Got a non-capitalist phone for me?
Sincerely as a hater...
Huawei is a employee owned and communist state backed company - not very capitalist, at least by comparison.
They're being hammered with export restrictions and sanctions and federal bans and executive orders to keep that from being a viable alternative in the US, but if you're outside that might be an option.
Lol as if. It is owned by the trade union who workers are required to be a part of, but have 0 say in.
The "union officials" are not chosen by the workers, but by management who are chosen by their management and so on until the Chinese head trade union officials which are party men who, just like in the old soviet Union, are essentially the chinese bourgeoisie. It is essentially a fascist oligarchy which is the exact same as under capitalism, just a different structure and cover story.
The workers get 0 say and there is no evidence that they share in the profit either, and huawei does not deny that structure either.
https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/22/why-its-so-hard-to-know-who-owns-huawei/?guccounter=1
And yet when Huawei was flush with cash (after being forced to sell off assets destroyed by US sanctions) it distributed those billions in profits back to the employees.
It's not a worker cooperative, there are problems with it like any employee owned company, but don't be so cynical.
I'm not sure how we went from Google to Capitalism but Ok
You don't see how a corporate entity like Google is related to capitalism? What exactly do you think capitalism means?
Have you tried Universal Android Debloat to disable it?
https://github.com/0x192/universal-android-debloater
Stuff like this is why I root or just flash my phones.
Oh this looks great, thanks!
Apparently this is the app. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.devicelock
Says it's not available in my country, but yet it is install and unremovable.
Have you tried using adb to uninstall, freeze, or otherwise disable it?
Just the firewall block at this stage (I'm Tech savvy, but not that tech savvy). I'll look into it
If it's unremoveable its probably been installed from the beginning.
Did you buy your phone from eBay or amazon? Could be a refurbished overseas model
Nope, directly from the google store.
Hm, weird
Mine isn't installed, but my phone is also out of support and doesn't work on newer Android. So it's probably a more recent thing.
Root the phone and remove insane garbage like that. Rip and tear until it is done.
How about you just wipe and install Lineage OS
It's in lineage too. Found it on pixel 7a with actual LOs 21
ah fuck. every day i just wana quit android more for a Brick phone.
Honestly I was in the same boat until I got a Fairphone...
And now I'm in the same boat again. Honestly cannot wait until GNU/Linux mobile devices are viable 🙏
I own a Pinephone64 allready but its still far from the baseline funktionality of a android device. It has hardware switches for the wireless modules tho...
I've thought about getting one, but it'll just be a novelty until it can support MMS properly (trying to get family to switch) and battery lasts a full day. I'll need a few more apps, but I'll figure out how to get it working through emulation or something if the above are fixed.
It shouldn't be unless you installed google apps
Is 3+ the age restriction?
Hilarious right?
I checked to see if this was on my pixel 6 pro. It wasn't but I found this.
Not something I installed and not something I would allow.
The uninstall did not appear to work UNTIL I disabled the app and cleared the data.
this is installed by default in case you want/need to enable it (company phone). it is a system app so it cannot be uninstalled, after disableing it (which probably does not do anything when it was not setup in the first place) you can uninstall the updates (so the 'old' version that's sitting in the system image is still there)
Interesting. The app isn't actually listed anymore after whatever I did.
Do you use your phone for work?
Never. Keep work and personal completely separate.
Weird, I have project fi and don't have this app. It could be contractually required by your service provider that the app be installed on all the phones that they sell. That's a thing that they do.
Who is the carrier?
Oh thank goodness
damn and no one at google saw this as dystopian?
I don't think courts are typically involved for civil repossession.
But it sounds like this is used when the device isn't your purchased property, but leased on contract.
I guess it makes sense for them to do this if people started leases, paid the first month to get the phone in their hand, then walked away with the nice new phone they paid like $35 for, to sell or just use off-network.
Well, I would say this is what small claims is for.
Should the bank should have keys to a mortgaged house? When you don't own the house outright yet? I'm gonna go with no.
And second, why is it installed by default on all phones? Really not cool.
Absolutely batshit.
Hmm, do they only not have keys because you can’t drive a house away?
So obviously poverty fuggin sux and we need universal basic income etc.
In today’s BS world:
If we ban car repossession, what happens to car prices and access to transportation?
Likewise - if digital repossession of phones is prohibited, will there at least be a couple impoverished people who have to use dumb phones even though they could’ve afforded a reposessable smartphone?
Maybe a few people have to go without those cheaper phones because allowing lenders to killswitch phones causes greater harm to the whole. Anybody wanna speculate?
I'll just point out that phone plans (to pay off a phone) and vehicle loans have been a thing and worked fine before this bullshit.
So yes, the level of access ought to remain the same I'd this were banned.
What's stopping someone from enabling debug mode, downloading adb tools and running pm uninstall --user0 then the package name? Surely with the app removed, the app can't brick your phone. Or running a custom rom like lineage or graphine os?
Fuck the entirety of this noise.
Apple does it to, but I've only ever seen it happen when you buy your phone on a payment plan as part of your service agreement through your service provider. Kind of like if you lease a car and stop making payments they can lock the engine from turning over.
I'm in the US and it's not on my phone and even though it's listed in the Play Store it says it's not available in my region
The Netherlands here: not installed on my S22 and not available in my region.
NL here too, but 1+8t on OxygenOS 14, and it is installed here. Did you check your system apps?
Another NL user here, not installed on my carrier-bought S23 Ultra, checked system apps as well in both my personal and work profile.
It says the same thing for me (not listed in the Australian Playstore), but it is installed.
Doesn't seem to be installed on mine. Maybe it's because I'm using a Motorola?
Same with my Motorola. Mine's rooted so I would have uninstalled it anyway.
Found it is present in my Moto g84, Android 14.
Same, I think my phone is too old to have it.
My phone's only about a year old maybe it's something that just started
Where did you buy your phone? What kind of phone is it?
Australia directly from the google store, Pixel 6.
In that case I would seriously contact Google, and either completely reflash either factory Android or one of the ALTs available.
Get Shizuka, get it running by following a guide somewhere, install canta, remove it... Bang bang.
Don't you mean shizuku
https://github.com/samolego/Canta
Yeah. Not sure why it autocorrected to that.
Did not know this was a thing. Thx!
Unfortunately I couldn't remove it with Shizuku + Canta. Can remove the devicelockcontrolleroverlay. But not the actual devicelock controller. Canta says it removes it, shows up in removed apps, but when I refresh canta, it's just installed regardless. Always stays visible in app list as well.
Pixel 7 Pro reporting in. There is no DeviceLockController on my phone. Just installed the latest monthly updates a couple of days ago.
i think they're just using the device administrator feature of android right? i know outlook does this if i connect to my work email
Use K-9 mail
So because I'm using a work profile, this gets installed?
I'm using shelter, also, hence have a work profile.
But even so, this shouldn't be installed.
If it's specific to a work profile, then it's likely to allow a user to prevent leaking sensitive work materials in case of a lost phone.
It's not specific, it's in both. And it being installed due to the work profile is speculation on my part.
Seen this comment several times and since you're OP and can get more eyes on you than my random comment: P6 paid for in full, installed GrapheneOS with no gApps and no Work Profile and I still have that app
Yikes. Well at least I feel vindicated that it's not somehow my "fault" for using Shelter. It's where I install all my questionable
Why in the world would this be bundled with AOSP? (Or is Graphene not built on stock AOSP, I have no concept of how that works)
No idea about why, and I'm pretty sure GrapheneOS is AOSP. I guess I'll have to bring this up in one of their official spaces
It's built into Android, but I suspect yes it needs to be granted device admin first so I doubt this can just enable out of nowhere.
Is that just a “feature” of recent AOS versions? AOS 5’s triple dot menu has nothing like “show system”.
Not on my Galaxy S23+ from Google Fi
It pings out to google constantly regardless of where you are. You should be able remove it with adb, or use an app like NetGuard to block it from acessing the internet.
NetGuard is how I discovered it even existed haha
So for me, it shows up in my settings but netguard does not show it. Did i do something wrong setting up netguard?
Also, does anyone know if my carrier will get mad if i remove it? I do technically owe money on my phone (they give me a credit each month so i dont have to pay it)
🤔
There's a setting to enable showing system apps in NetGuard.
Thanks! I missed the settings somehow.
Interesting. It's not available in the US.
I checked and this is not present on my device. It is an unlocked Google Pixel 6a purchased via contract with the mobile provider. That said, I factory reset the device when I got it, so it may have been removed at that time.
I checked my Pixel 6A direct from Google and I do have it. You have to tap "Show system apps" in the top right menu.
Ah, yup. There it is.
I have it on my contract free pixel 6 bought from Google store.
I checked my pixel 7a bought from Google directly and I also don't have this app
the phone world is fucked. Use a landline phone :)
Thanks for sharing this OP. I turned on the notifications for my browser, and when I went on FB (thru firefox, not app) one of the connection notifications was to a website I went on once a few weeks or even a month ago. I knew it was creepy but damn.
I do have ublock origin but obviously that's not enough. I wish i could get rid of FB but there's 2 things i haven't been able to replicate elsewhere.
I'm just flabbergasted but wanted to say thanks.
Are we certain it does what we think it does? Could it be something to do with the ability to lock your phone remotely if stolen, or just something to do with Lock Screen functionality?
Not what it says on the google Playstore listing, but yes it's possible. Considering the connection requests are seemingly for other google APIs. It's possible NetGuard is flagging the requests to this app incorrectly. (It can't distinguish being MS office apps either, so it lumps them together, for example)
Doesn't change the fact the app is installed though, on a phone I own outright, and it's purposes as claimed by google are gross (in my opinion).
That's an oxymoron. Creditors have the ability to lock you out of a device you haven't paid for yet. Standard terms and conditions in B2C and B2B; you don't own it until you've paid for it in full.
Also locking you out of a device you don't own yet is cheaper than taking you to court.
Asus Zenfone 8 purchased outright in Australia. App does not exist on my phone.
Try uninstalling with Universal Android Debloater or Canta
My Pixel5a from google store has it, but my other phone where I installed Murena e/OS (which is based on LineageOS) does not have it.
How do you go for banking apps on Murena e/OS? This is basically the only thing holding me back from changing my OS to GrapheneOS.
Dual boot is sadly not a thing according to Graphene (and I have idea about such things
I run /e/OS on my Fairphone 3. The only thing that doesn't work is login with fingerprints with my banking app. Everything else works, I did not have a problem and I am now running it for more than 3 years I believe (or 4?).
Banking is a hit or miss, GrapheneOS should pass all security checks and more, but none of them is Google certified and apps start to request that, which sucks
My banking App works fine on GrapheneOS. At all i didnt really had any app so far which isnt working on GOS with sandboxed Google Services
I will tell you my secret. I have two phones. Two identities. One that has a normal google phone with facebook messenger and instagram, to keep in contact with family, and to have bank apps. And one, where the Murena e/OS is totally de-googled. Where you will only find FOSS apps, from Lemmy to Mastodon and Pixelfed. That second identity is my real one.
The mistake people make when they write about "moving to Linux" (or similar), is that they try to fit themselves into a box where the modern life doesn't affords them to. The wiser option is to play on both sides. You have an unassuming, clean-cut identity on one computer and phone, and you have your real self on the other, where it's ultra-private and secured, and often IP-spoofed if required. And it's not some kind of closeting thing, or illegal thing or anything, it's just private. How I would like things to be by default in a Utopian system.
On top of that, I believe that Murena's e/OS has a modified g-services app so full fledged Android apps, including bank apps, get fooled so they run. But I don't personally run them on that phone. That phone is FOSS only.
With GrapheneOS, there's dual profile, a main without google, and a secondary profile with all the garbage you don't really need...
Reading the docs I don't believe this is the main reason security checks fail, even if you have GApps installed some apps will refuse to work
There oughta be a law
This is pre-installed on my 6a, also purchased outright, unlocked, directly from Google in the US.
I love how no governments completely shut down Google for violating constitutional rights or citizens
Mate we live in a 5 eyes country so whatever shit you see in the USl by default you'll see it here. Its sad but that's how it is and regular 9-5s can't do much about it
That "rated 3 and up" is killing me.
Finally a solution for those jobless deadbeat infants.
I live in the US and the Google play store says this app isn't available in my region.
I live in Indonesia, and I have the application installed, but I don't have a banking application, only e-money applications such as DANA, OVO, GOPAY, that's all.
It’s ok. You can just make some calls and settle your arrears.
Love the Chinese phones. None of this crap US stuff is enabled. It's baked into the system ROM so it is there. But on mine it has never transfered any data, not even ever been active. It's just dead code taking up a few megabytes.
I think I've seen you around here before, shilling these lower quality, closed source devices from China.
Lower quality? Lol.
I'll give you a chance to look up the Mix Fold 3. And then any other equivalent phone available in the US market.
Even excluding the folding aspect, the screen sizes and overall thickness means it looks and works exactly like a non foldy. 50W wireless, 120W wired charging. 1TB of storage, 16GB of RAM. Leica lenses.
On top of that, zero of my data goes to the US government at it does on carrier branded phones. I will give all my data to the ccp if they want it. I have no interest in what they do with it. I have very high interest in what a five eyes nation does with my data and information.
Wow! Rattling off stats like that is a great way to show you're not shilling.
Tell me, how is the display color quality and camera resolution?
Cameras are better than Samsung flagship and on par with iPhone. The newest 14 beats the iPhone 15 in side by side tests according to many media outlets.
The display is Samsung OLED. The exact same display technology.
Educate yourself to the world outside of the USA and you'll find far superior technology.
WeChat preinstalled?
But nah, the OnePlus 7 with a custom ROM was my jam. Shame the screen broke.
I mean, the preference for giving the data to CCP is something I've also considered. Like, why not get DeepSeek and just say fuck it? It doesn't suck nearly as bad as ChapGPT. I also am not sure I have any interest it what they do with my info, unless the sell it back to the US, or it ends up back here
Get replacement parts, get access to bootloaders, get control of your data. You can't? Lower quality, and you admit it proudly.
Funny how that's not needed when you don't break your phone and the thing works out of the box. No random reboots and resets like every US carrier branded phone where a custom ROM is a necessity.
Also if I need replacement parts all the mobile repair shops stock them in places I routinely visit.
Youre just too taken in by propaganda to admit the shit the US shoves down your throat isn't that great.
I need the ROMs to play with hardware in ways manufacturers and Google don't intend. I don't ask the manufacturer for permission, nor do I need to as source code and bootloaders are available.
I'm not willing to be a data point for profit, I don't give a fuck whether it's the shithead ccp or fuckbox google, my data stays on my phone unless I decide otherwise.
Can't do that? Again, proud of your weakest element. How strange. Enjoy your inferior phone.
Unlike Japan in the 80s, I wouldn't trust the CCP more than products made in Democratic nations.
That being said, I am now VERY glad I switched to Graphene OS the moment I got this phone. Fuck this kind of shit, I bought this phone.
It's not about trust. It's about what are they going to do with the data. I have been to China, it's cool. I also don't have any long term plans there. I do have long term plans in 5 eye countries. Therefore I want none of my data in government spy databases where I actually do things.