Something something Biden bad
Please start your comments with the following question answered at the top:
"Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?" [Y/N]
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Please start your comments with the following question answered at the top:
"Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?" [Y/N]
One side is working to dismantle democracy. The other side is not. If you don't vote blue you are enabling Republicans to enact Project 2025. You would enable Republicans to take away rights from LGBT people in America. You would enable abortion bans and enable even more of the genocide in Gaza. You would enable Republicans to do all the types of stuff listed in the meme, and they will try.
I am convinced some of the far left that won't vote for Biden because of the war in Gaza are being influenced by Republicans. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those people are Republicans trying to get people not to vote for Biden. It may not be an ideal situation, but if you don't vote for Biden because you think he is handling the war in Gaza horribly, you are doing exactly what the Republicans want you to do. Maybe someday we'll be able to vote for someone better than him. But for now, you have to understand the reality of our two party system, and deal with it. At the very least, don't do what the Republicans would want you to do: staying home rather than going out and voting for Biden
For all their many flaws: Democrats leave office without attempting coups when they lose.
Republicans now know they can elect a functional fascist if he has a little popular support. Democratic institutions may not be lucky enough to hold again.
They support candidates in the other party that do attempts coups, just so voters are forced to vote for them instead of the other party. Hilary's support for Trump in the primaries, should be seen as threat of violence towards the voters and seen as fascism. All the problems with Trump are problems that Democrates are to blame. They are not responsible for other Republicans maybe, but they are responsible for Trump. Trump is a Democrate candidate in the Republican party.
In 2020, 80 million didn't vote. How do you fix that?
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/15/945031391/poll-despite-record-turnout-80-million-americans-didnt-vote-heres-why
Bullshit. Democrats have made their disdain for democracy absolutely clear by preventing other candidates from even getting on the ballot in the primaries. I'm not defending Trump, but if Biden loses, he has only himself and the other ghouls in the Democratic party to blame. You can't run on protecting democracy while simultaneously sabotaging it.
It's not on the voters to hold their noses and vote for someone who should probably be in a nursing home and very likely won't live long enough to finish his second term. It's on the Democratic party to allow candidates people want to vote for to participate. All this blaming of voters for wanting to sit this one out or vote third party is just so much bootlicking of the establishment.
WHAT DEMOCRACY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? The one that enables your country to fund a genocide across the globe DESPITE the outrage of it's citizens and the... WHOLE WORLD?
How you can enable MORE genocide? People are finite, you either commit genocide, or you don't. Or you think with your tiny fucking libbrain that SMALL GENOCIDE is totally okay?
Yeah, sure, do not try to change anything, just deal with our shitty system because there's no other option. Jesus fucking Christ...
The electoral Congress decides who's president, though. Why shouldn't I as a far-leftist vote third party to express my discontentment with a democratic party that only wants to appeal to the right? I'm tired of people telling me Biden is good enough when we had a actual progressive who had a shot just a few years ago. The climate can't wait, and the Palestinian people certainly can't. A placid, centrist left in the face of fascism looks useless to me I'm not sorry. Read a fucking history book.
People often say that voting third party is throwing away your vote, but using your vote as a protest like you describe is perfectly valid. Politicians from the major parties do care about how they can appeal to swingable voters, and third parties getting more votes does makes them more influential for future policy. You give up having influence between the two people who actually have a chance in the current election, but realistically you didn't in the first place if you don't live in a battleground state.
It's your vote. Don't let other people chide you for not spending it on what they think you should. Just use it for a cause that's worthwhile to you. It's the people who don't vote at all that get ignored.
Fuck I needed to hear that, thanks. I just believe a lot of Biden voters are relentlessly optimistic and more than a little naive- there's a lot of propaganda afoot lately but I think it's important to talk about my choice too. Obviously we need things like ranked-choice voting for third party votes in this country to make a real difference ASAP but IIRC if a party's candidate gets even 5% of the vote in a election they qualify for some federal funding. I don't think it's impossible to fight for better representation and win in the long run that way.
If you live in a state that’s not contested, sure vote third party if that makes you feel better. But the reality is that not voting blue in any purple state does benefit the party you are less aligned with. So in the case of a leftist it would benefit republicans. I also would love an alternative to a two party system but in THIS election a vote that benefits republicans is a vote for a 1 party system.
It will continue to be that way in every election as long as people resign themselves to voting for either party that has no intention of ever giving you a "fix" to the two party system. Why would a Democrat or a Republican want to get a third party elected? Makes 0 sense. Let's say you vote for a Democrat... How does that then incentivize them to do anything differently than how they're already doing it? Your voting for them is tacit approval of their current agenda and party machinations. If they don't lose or get challenged by something further to the left, they will never move left. They will continue to pander towards centerist voters. Since our Overton window is already right of center with the Democrats basically being center-right and the Republicans being further right, they will only move rightwards with this strategy. They only pander towards centrists because the centrist vote isn't guaranteed. So in order for them to move leftward, they need to see that the left voter is not a guaranteed vote. The only way to do that at the ballot box is by voting for someone further to the left than the Democratic party. Yes that might mean that Democrats start to lose, but if they do it's their own damn fault for not appealing to the leftist voter.
You had an actual progressive years ago...yes. You don't have one this year.
You say the climate can't wait...so which path is better: 1 - push for net-zero carbon emissions by 2050, invest $2T in green tech and infrastructure, OR 2 - boost oil and gas production, roll back environmental regulations
Palestine can't wait...which path is better: 1 - publicly support Israel while pressuring them to limit civilian casualties, work towards a cease fire OR 2 - sending ICE to break up pro-Palestinian protests in the US to remove any protesters here illegally, implement ideological screening as part of the immigration process, stoke anti-muslim sentiment here and abroad.
Read a fucking history book? The Repub is using the same power-consolidation strategy as Hitler, there's Nazis chilling at cpac, LGBTQ folks are being targeted by Republicans across the country, burning books, politicians changing the contents of history curriculum...they say history doesn't repeat itself but it sure does rhyme. Well, this is straight-up plagiarism.
Yes because there are two paths, only two. Revolution is never a option and we should eat ALLLLL the shit they feed us, thankful for scraps as the fires burn more and more intense. 2050? Do you hear yourself? The damage is already irreparable, that's far too late. We need action now and a president who hasn't sold their soul to oil, if such a thing could ever possibly exist. I AM lgbt (trans) and IMHO this is a problem because he's looking out for conservative billionaires instead. I tell you to look at the history because I agree, the Republicans are Nazis... And a centrist left conceded power to them or had it stolen then too.
Show the viable candidate.
I'm not calling for a violent revolution because I've been to a war zone before, and I don't want that here. That's the only 3rd path I see for this election cycle. My daughter is also LGBTQIA so it's personal for me too.
Does there have to be one for joe biden to be bad? I'm sure there's a least a million individual people who could do the job better. At the end of the day I just don't see any reason to defend the guy, he seemingly has no real passion or empathy and is leaving a lot in this country undone or worse for the wear whilst letting the right fearmonger incessantly
I mean, there has to be a President...and it's nearly a statistical guarantee that it will be Trump or Biden unless one of them dies before November. So no, there doesn't have to be a good candidate for Biden to be a bad one...but he's the best option we have this time around. Like, if I had 2 options for a house for my kids to live in and 1 is rundown shithole and has lead paint and a busted up foundation and the other a cardboard box under an overpass I'll take the lead paint while I work for something better...every time.
Well there has to come a point when the second option's just not worth settling for. That analogy is so spot on it hurts that you can't see my point.
This is precisely why you should vote for Democrats. The Nazi rise to power is a cautionary tale of what happens when both liberals and leftists don't take the fascist threat seriously. They'll play off the fascists to try and get one over the other -- you've pointed this out with the centrist left already, and how they gave him power. But it's also important to recognize that the leftists weren't terribly concerned either. "After Hitler, us!". They foolishly thought the fascists would let there be an "after" and resigned themselves.
There is only one path forward, and I like to explain it in terms of LotR. The dwarves and elves may dislike each other and sometimes be on the verge of war, but as soon as the orcs appear, they work together as one. The fascists warrant our full attention and scorn. We can never make the same mistake of the Germans to let animosity among those left of center take priority over stomping out fascists.
You're wasting your time, I already laid out why. Biden is Saruman, dude, that's my take. I hope I'm wrong, but I think you'll all feel real foolish for defending this guy someday. I hate fascists and that's why I can't settle for Biden; IMHO he's not anti-fascist or progressive enough to put up a good fight. Especially as a individual, thank gods he has some good people on staff but I still look at Biden and think the dude couldn't manage a pretend waffle house, let alone a country. And his track record as senator constantly gets swept under the rug, too. He voted for segragation ffs
Voting for a third party with no chance of winning takes away a vote from the candidate from the 2 major parties who more closely represents you.
You're not just doing a protest. If you believe in left values, you're making it one vote harder for the left to win and one vote easier for the right.
Would you rather the opposition win and we lose democracy or more rights so you can prove your point?
It's downright selfish imho.
democrats, especially joe biden, are not on the left
They're realistically though the closest thing we have. They absolutely do less damage when in office. If you actually want things to get better. We have to stop doing damage or at least slow down the damage first. It's basic logic.
he wrote the usa patriot act and the crime bill. he stopped student debt from being discharged in bankruptcy. bill clinton pushed "welfare reform". obama destroyed habeas corpus, murdering a us citizen without trial. kids-in-cages is an obama era policy. obama signed taarp.
i don't believe they do less damage at all.
I believe that you believe that. But I also know that your belief in that doesn't make it true. Whether or not one approves of Obama's actions with drones overseas. Which for the record I don't. He didn't end habeas corpus. You are being hyperbolic and disingenuous. Despite my disproval of it. It was a one-time thing with some fairly decent justification behind it. That hasn't led to any actual policy changes that could be pointed out.
The Patriot Act per Wikipedia
Completely unsurprising. You're lying again. To be fair Biden did claim credit. Stupid liberal doin stupid liberal things.
As far as TARP was concerned. Was there anything they could have realistically done that you would have approved of? No? Then why should we care what you think. Yes, tarp was a bit of a crock of shit. But unfortunately it was the best we were going to get and it was a good thing that we did get it ultimately.
As far as blocking student loan debt from being expunged with bankruptcy. Yes, stupid liberal doing stupid liberal things. However, Biden is also been one of the most active pushing for forgiveness of student loan debt. Could you be any more fake or disingenuous?
everything they said was right. your accusation of disengenuity is itself bad faith. just because you don't believe somebody could be to the left of Joe Biden and Barack Obama and Bill Clinton doesn't make you right.
what's Joe Biden lying too?
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4876107/user-clip-joe-biden-wrote-patriot-act
I've about given up. It seems as though most of lemmy is more than happy to smugly let the perfect destroy the good.
I'm sure the additional dead kids in Palestine and Ukraine and very likely most of the middle east and Europe or Russia (depending on how NATO fares after the US leaves) will thank them for voting for RFK Jr or Jill Stein or Mickey Mouse. I don't think my daughter will thank them when she gets sent to federally mandated "don't be gay" camp or has to hide who she is for the rest of her life but hey, at least we made a point. Just like vaccines, sometimes I guess we have to suffer as a species to remember things.
Man, I'm jaded today.
You have to remember a lot of the people posting that bs likely aren't Americans and either have an anti western agenda or are being paid to post divisive shit. It's annoying because Lemmy is such a small community that these accounts appear wayyyyy more than they really should, so it gives the impression that there's loads of them, but really they are a minority. Chances are they also have a bunch of smurf accounts so it could literally just be one room of guys posting mountains of bullshit every day.
Arguably they're more left than the right is left.
Far lefter than anything the repugnicunts are fronting these decades.
no it doesn't. the vote belongs to the voter, and they can give it to any candidate they like. the votes are not owned by the 2 major parties.
i think they'd rather some other candidate win. that's probably why they're voting for some other candidate
they're not calling it a protest, either. they're calling it a vote.
Liberals aren't left. I like this take by Phil Ochs
"In every American community, you have varying shades of political opinion. One of the shadiest of these is the liberals. An outspoken group on many subjects. Ten degrees to the left of center in good times, ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally.
I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
Tears ran down my spine
And I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy
As though I'd lost a father of mine
But Malcolm X got what was coming
He got what he asked for this time
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
Get it?"
Nearing on sixty years, and this song never gets old. 🖤
Make it make sense
the democrats are fundamentally closer to republicans in status and solidarity than they are to most working class americans that they claim to represent.
True, but irrelevant. You haven't explained how they're worse for failing to prevent the republicans from doing stuff
you are interpreting what i said as democrats are worse than republicans. i don't really see much of a difference in them at this point
Are you blind? How can you not see a difference?
considering AIPAC buys democrats and blackmails up and coming progressives I'd say that the democrats are pretty fascist themselves because AIPAC is a zionist organization furthering the zionist colonial project. our choices are fascism or sugar coated fascism. im not choosing either, thanks.
It’s questionable whether or not IVF is possible in Alabama right now.
You have to be trolling.
I cant even afford IVF so its not possible for me at all. Make sure test tube babies are ok but babies already born in gaza dying can be sacrificed. Gotchu
its not irrelevant. no war but class war. the people that fight and die in war are not the aristocrats and politicians that start them. biden is our enemy as much as trump is
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA
...no
I think Ukrainians and Palestinians would disagree with the notion that "there is no war but class war". A good salary, food security, and affordable healthcare do not cure racism and fascism.
the difference between ukraine and palestine is that the US and the west have a vested capital interest in ukraine. there is no capital investment in palestine. there is in israel. new yorks state employee pension along with texas's is secured in israeli bonds. follow the money.
palestinians don't even have any sort of internationally recognized statehood. they have no sovereignty over themselves. this is about class. i personally don't have a vested interest in ukraine. but the capitalist ruling class here does. the ukrainian people are victims as much as the palestinians are victims of fascism and racism just as much as the palestinians are but the main difference is that one has the united states backing it along with the entire capitalist class corporate infrastructure. the palestinians don't have that. and who fights the wars? the rich? nope. the poor, who have nothing to offer as means except their bodies, labor and life. there is solidarity at the top, even amongst geopolitics. i mean they all gather in the same room together and act polite and do pleasantries while we have to grit and bear it in the virtual and physical hellscapes they create.
So why are only red states scrambling to destroy worker protections?
he also did fuck all about east palestine and let norfolk southern run the show
When he said he's the most pro-union president ever, he was right. But he's still a capitalist so it doesn't mean shit. A pro-union capitalist will still let corporations get away with negligent homicide.
?
They had to pay for all the remediation, which is not just a slap on the wrist.
the residents of east palestine are all sick and have been getting worse since the event and the subsequent controlled burn off of the chemicals. there are still checmicals in the water but the EPA says its fine. norfolk southern says its fine. the east palestinians are getting sicker and sicker by the day and not getting nearly enough attention.
Looks like I'll need to look into this more, thanks for the heads up.
I don't disagree with the intended meaning of any of this
However, it would be more effective with increased clarity if the text were revised to state that he "Didn't expand the Supreme Court beyond nine, and did not appoint those additional new justices" or even simply "Did not increase the size of the Supreme Court" or something like that. Because he did appoint Kentanji Brown Jackson to SCOTUS, and people will point that out under your current writing of it which will derail discussion of the actual points. Revising the text will foreclose the possibility of that derailment
Looks like a little edgy eddie forgot all about violent insurrection ending in several deaths to overthrow a legal election.
Ooopsie
4 of these are just, 'he failed to do more to undo the Republican's party's efforts'.
How is it that republicans are so much more effective than democrats? Before you use the tired excuse of "it's easier to break things than to make things" tell me why biden can't break this support of genocide.
What makes you think they are more effective?
Eight years of Obama plus four years of Biden resulted in mediocrity at best, whereas only four years of Trump resulted in teetering on the edge of full-blown fascism.
That's because Democrats are pathetic cowards, not suited for the current political climate.
as far as the border goes, theres no excuse for continuing trump era immigration policy that was, oh shit, already in place before even trump took office. dems don't care about the migrants affected by climate change that US actions have caused. kamala literally got on a microphone telling migrants to "not come to america" I mean this is the party saying they are gonna save us from fascism but we gotta make sure we vote. democrats like to say that they are everything the republicans aren't. maybe they aren't certain things but they are still classist as fuck and would let us die before their colleagues in DC do. maybe they want to keep trumps border policy cause of the growing republican latinx community which is in part due to inaction from the democrats fumbling over themselves and failing to make any meaningful change
Both "sides" don't give a fuck about people or democracy, both the red and blue party support dictatorships around the world, genocide and unjust wars. If you vote red or blue you are giving your vote to corrupted criminal murderers with blood on their hands. If i don't support Stalin in WWII it does not mean that i'm supporting Hitler, the choice is yours! Not voting for red or blue does NOT mean voting for the other color.
Wait... You were against the allies in World War II? Are you one of those Charles Lindbergh leftists I keep hearing about?
Are you pro russia?
You can be against Hitler and Stalin at the same time they were both awful dictatiors. Life it's not a football match you don't have to pick a side
Okay, Lindbergh Leftist. Yes, I would have been pro Soviet Union during World War II because Nazis are not just worse, but far worse.
You can be against Hitler and Stalin at the same time, is this to hard to gasp for you?
Yeah, like Charles Lindbergh who was against participating on either side.
I wonder what his political beliefs were.
If my choices are veiled fascism or open fascism I'd rather have it out in the open so we can fight it.
Well good thing those aren't your choices.
If we're willing to condone genocide by an ally then we're willing to condone one here. And the reason it's called veiled is because they have the same goals, they're just shy about saying it out loud.
You realize that if Biden were legitimately committing genocide in Palestine, America would officially be at war with Palestine… right?
Please tell us that you understand this. It’s important that we all know you understand this.
You do realize how responsibility works? Because down your illogical rabbit hole lies this future statement, "If Biden isn't personally shooting them is he really responsible for the genocide?"
The answer to your question lies in the madness of de facto versus de jure. De Facto, we are and this is why the Houthis are going after our ships. Just like the Germans did in both world wars. De Jure, there is no war in Ba Sing Se.
So… we’re resorting to made up future statements now?
Pathetic.
He's not committing genocide, he's only sending billions in support of genocide. I understand completely.
I've got news for you, aiding and abaiting genocide is also a crime. And in fact member states of the UN have an obligation to pursue the enforcement of the prohibition of genocide. The mere vetos of the US on UN resolutions for cease fire should be enough. We won't even talk about the weapons trade.
I’ve got news for you- he’s not doing that either. Try looking into it. Many people here and in other communities have explained this to you people. Mods have even gotten involved providing proof to dispute the claims.
I’m not going to argue about it. You’re wrong.
Cause that worked so well in Germany.
Voting for the guys that gave Hitler a position of power for temporary political gain sure as hell didn't work.
The far left isn't voting because electoral politics are a distraction from actual revolutionary action. While y'all are too busy choosing the lesser evil that will eventually "compromise" with the worse evil because "we need a strong republican party" the far left is taking more direct approaches.
What a load of self righteous nonsense. Even if anyone believed you, it takes a couple hours out of a day to vote at absolute maximum. I think the revolution can spare that, no?
Yeah voting is something that happens, at most, twice a year - with primaries and the general. So a total of 2 hours a year is really a immaterial use of time and effort
Every few months if you participate in local elections. WHICH YOU SHOULD. Revolution should always be the last resort. But so many long for revolution but can't be bothered to actually participate in local and national elections.
You don't understand, I'm doing my part by posting "1 like = 1 bullet for the revolution" every week on my socialist Facebook groups, what about you, liberal scum???
You don't consider canceling primaries for a state that habitual votes against party favorite to be dismantling democracy?
Not even a couple cycles after the dnc's lawyer told a judge primary votes don't matter and they can appoint anyone and the judge agreed?
They're not equally bad, but at this point it's hard to call either democratic
Which will depress turnout, even if the people trying to earn you still vote for Biden
I'm not going to stay home. I'm going to go to the polling place and leave that part empty on the ballot.
Here's the bottom line: I cannot bring myself to officially support someone who I admit is an active supporter of genocide. Listen to yourselves. You are literally saying that I should feel bad because I won't support someone who is actively supporting genocide. They are carpet bombing children, intentionally starving them, denying them medical care, all because of their ethnicity. He is expediting military aid to make sure they can.
I wouldn't vote for Hitler just because I believed his opponent was worse. The reason I wouldn't vote for Hitler is because of the genocide. I have to draw a line somewhere. If anything, I should probably have drawn it somewhere before genocide.
BTW, I'm not saying you're a bad person if you do vote for Biden, or even that I'm somehow better for not. I get it. I just can't bring myself to do it.
[Edit: Americans, if you're thinking of replying to me, consider instead or additionally going to Ceasefire Now and writing to your representatives. Maybe if there's an end to the genocide before November I'll be willing to vote for Biden.]
You are a bad person if you don't vote against Trump, who is the actual comparison to Hitler.
I'm voting against Trump and Biden. biden spent 50 years in power making trump possible.
So you are voting for Trump.
no, I'm probably voting for Jill Stein again, but I haven't stopped donating to cornel west yet
So Trump supporter, got it. Please don't fucking be registered in Wisconsin.
Be useless somewhere else, thanks. - America
neither of them are trump. I think you have problems with reading comprehension.
and Im not registered in Wisconsin but I am in a swing state that went Obama Obama Trump Biden.
This guy thinks Navalny was a Nazi. He's just a Russian asset.
this is just ad hominem
It's more of an argument that your opinion is utter garbage based on your shit judgement.
it's not an argument at all. they are just attacks on my person rather than my position.
I hope you gain the knowledge to see the bigger picture before November. Allowing Trump to win guarantees that the genocide continues and even grows. Biden, at least, is reasonable and not bloodthirsty. Work with the system so that you can change it. Because the alternative is to burn us all down for your own hubris and lack of awareness.
Allowing Biden to win guarantees that the genocide continues and even grows.
"Reasonable and not bloodthirsty": expediting military aid to help the slaughter of children.
Nothing I am doing is outside the system, and voting for Biden won't help change the system.
Hubris is thinking that because other people disagree with you they must be ignorant and lack awareness. Hubris is thinking that if other people act differently from you, we will all burn down.
Just a heads up that site picked the wrong district for me. The actual house site understands my zip is split between two districts (based on county lines) but this site picked the wrong one.
so, out of curiosity, what has biden accomplished (or any one, really,) done to stop any of that?
so far, the only thing he's successfully achieved is... increasing the DoJ's focus on domestic terrorism. which, is something, I guess.
After three years of this shit getting worse; why should we believe Biden is able to actually stop it and protect our democracy? it took him two and half, or so, years for him to get the DoJ to assign Jack Smith to investigate trump for Jan 6, and documents, and stuff.
Under Biden we have student load forgiveness, we have a better ftc that actually investigates shit, we had an actual climate deal, and we have support for Ukraine, and have an investigation on trump. With trump we have none of that. We get total facism.
Also voting and protest/revolt are not mutually exclusive. At least under Biden we might not have to become a full on fascist state in the next year.
Most of the Climate deals are corporate subsidies for things they were going to do anyhow... eventually.
As good as the student debt forgiveness is... all of those loans that are being forgiven are loans that should have been forgiven ages ago. There's zero fraud investigation on that. just a "oops. we let you get scammed for years." (sometimes even decades.). Not exactly a brilliant dipslay of ... governance.
Right now we don't even have support for ukraine. so much for that much-vaunted bipartisanship that was one of his key sales pitches.
you do realize that prevailing rhetoric right now is "Don't protest Biden now.... let him win the election first!", right? which is why I'm being down voted when I call Gaza Genocide.
I don't think Biden can protect american democracy. I don't think he has that ability.
"so much for that much-vaunted bipartisanship"
whose fault is that?
If Biden can take credit for the infrastructure act getting passed, he can take credit for everything the house does. Or doesn’t do.
(Joking, mostly. But remember his campaign? A major selling point is working across the aisle to get shit done. Seems to have been a niave argument.)
https://www.factcheck.org/2024/01/bidens-numbers-january-2024-update/
So, he's done nothing to actually protect american democracy. The argument being made by the OC is that he's protecting American democracy. Where's that?
your source is mostly about stuff that Biden has fuck all to do with (crime is state and local; Economics, fed and treasury;) and the stuff he does... he's not done all that much (immigration?) or has gone the wrong way (oil)
bOtH sIdEs
Man I just want to vote for a better candidate not strategically vote so the worst one doesn't get elected. Why tf isn't Trump in jail yet
Trump will for sure encourage a true genocode of palestine. remember the kurds he abandoned to Syria/Putin? remember the muslim ban?
Don't forget getting rid of Medicare, raising taxes on people making under $90,000 a year, dismantling the IRS, and just full on fascism.
"Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?" Yes
Maybe I'm just getting old, but I have no problem seeing the vast difference between the two choices we're going to be given in November.
No matter how much the children in the room piss and moan, there are realistically only two choices - 3rd party candidates only exist to spoil it for whomever they're ideologically closer to of the two "real" candidates. Furthermore, Biden has turned out better than I expected - and I'm a Bernie Sanders kinda guy!
"Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?"
Primary? No. General? If he makes it.
The current electoral phase is the primary, which is what those voting 'Uncommitted' are involved in. You have to understand this the first, last, and only phase in the presidential election cycle where voters have ANY say, even the possibility of it, on influencing executive policy for their party.
Anyone thinking criticism of Biden in a primary is the same as supporting Trump in the general is delusional and demonstrably doesn't understand the electoral process for president.
Are people like OP really concerned about Dean Philips or Marianne Williamson becoming the democratic party candidate? Because that is the phase we are in: internal party primary elections. People are trying to shape the Democratic Party platform through a democratic process and there is all this blowback that amounts only to "B-but Trump!"
That perspective relies on a misunderstanding, willful or not, of American Presidential election cycles.
Though I still am hedging my bets that at least one of the general election candidates keels over in the next 6 months.
Aaron Bushnell was a moron. He should have waited to self-immolate after the election, that way he could still vote for Biden.
Obvious /s.
Y
Don't worry, a bunch of fucking idiots think not voting is the solution, turning what could just be 4 more years of "definitely not good" into a toss up with "holy fucking shit I didn't know it could be this bad".
The vapid motherfuckers doing everything based on principles without taking reality into account is how the left always seems to get so little done.
Nice try, FBI
"Do you condemn Hamas?"
I remember signing up for army back in the day. One of the questions were:
"Are you a terrorist?"
Yes ___
No ___
I wish. Heared they pay good money.
Maybe Trump should have a word with them, since he has has some issues in that department recently...
And here I am, doing this shit for free :D
I know, just joking
Fair enough.
Hard to tell with people here sometimes.
You're definitely correct, my bad for not including a /s
Y
given all Biden is doing for women with abortion and ivf, he’s getting kids breakfast and lunch money, he’s helping reduce college loan disasters, Medicare is going after pharmas that price gouge, he’s the first president ever to join union members on the picket line, I could go on and on.
Trump supports the Isreali genocide and also wants to do the same thing at home with immigrants.
no amount of genocide is acceptable
Other than giving more genocide a free pass, what are your plans to reduce genocide?
I'm not giving genocide a free pass.
Voting for anyone other than Biden will in effect be like voting for Trump, who will make the Israel/Palestine crisis even more kinetic in Israel's favor.
this is election misinformation: they can't count my vote for trump or Biden unless that who I vote for.
Enjoy the straw man
Do you even know what that term means?
No I just use it blindly because I'm a moron who votes third party
it's not a strawman
It is if both sides are supporting genocide. They cancel out. You have to start looking at other things to criticize Biden for.
Are you seriously arguing that criticisms of Democrats don't count if the Republicans hold the same position? Wanna think about that one again?
why? One thing is enough if the thing is genocide. I'm just going to vote for somebody else.
And yet your vote will help trump regardless of whether you shove your head in the sand or not. Reality exists outside your head.
Trump supports the genocide more. And locally, he wants to throw migrants into camps. See the bigger picture
Biden is doing that right now...
So did Obama...
And trump does not support Israel genocide more than Biden. trump would want something out of it. Biden needs nothing in return
This is the danger of running Biden. As bad as trump is, Biden is also shitty.
We could have locked in a dem.win by running a halfway decent candidate that isn't two decades past retirement age.
bOtH sIdEs
You're delusional. Get some help and start searching for a way back to reality.
What?
Do you need a source for Biden saying he's a Zionist and has unconditional support for Israel no matter what happens in the future?
Or did you mean you want a source for trump supporting anything that privately enriches himself or makes him feel good about himself?
Biden and trump supporters are too similar these days it's hard to tell who I pissed off.
Do you need a source for Trump being a Hitler worshipping piece of shit who wants to kill everyone that isn't white?
Well at least I know you're a Biden supporter now instead of a trump supporter.
Have a nice life, hope it gets better.
If you meant that, you wouldn't be trying to help Trump win.
You legit just said “Trump supports the genocide more", and then probably felt like you had moral superiority in the argument. Do you understand how insane it is that you’re arguing over who is more genocidy?
It doesn’t really matter who you vote for, because if the US is at the point where they’re voting based on who is going to kill less people, then the country is already a fascist state and all hope of turning that around is lost. You’re all just fighting over what flavor of fascism you get.
Do you know how braindead it is to treat things as equal which are vastly, vastly different, in consequential ways that will end in large amounts of human suffering?
It matters more than ever in history who you vote for. You are the exact type of turd that inspired this post.
I’m not the sort of person that inspired this post. The type that inspired this post is the type that thinks democrats are as bad as republicans. I don’t think that goes far enough. I’m the sort who thinks the US government is a profoundly evil institution, the continuation of which is the sole cause of untold suffering elsewhere in the world. I’m hoping Trump wins, because it will destabilize the entire nation and hopefully be the push we need to lose our position as the global superpower. If Americans need to suffer for that to happen, then perhaps it will be a learning experience on what it’s been like living in Latin America and the Middle East for the past several decades while the US government toys with weaker nations for profit.
So don’t confuse me with those sorts of people. They just want democrats to lose. I want America to burn. We are not the same.
Noooooo, gus fring accelerationists are not allowed as part of my libtard political worldview! Nooooo! America can still be saved! Think of the children! Think of the people who are suffering in already pretty bad circumstances that can't get much worse! Noooo! My middle class purview and perspective is making me think that this is all still salvageable as everyone around me dies and suffers and I can't see it! Noooo!
You are far worse than the shitbags I lumped you in with. My bad.
"I'm not a mental sloth, I'm actually a passive terrorist"
Listen, nothing you could possibly say to me is going to offend me, because I don’t know you and I don’t care what you think. You’re just getting yourself worked up, so why don’t you do yourself a favor and just stop replying to me.
Speaking of being a “passive terrorist”, if anyone else needs help setting up encrypted anonymous comms for supporting their direct action, hit me up. I’d be more than happy to teach anyone ways to avoid government surveillance.
All of you society destroyers think responses are about you. They are about passersby who need to understand what you are.
This observation is neither prudent nor profound.
It didn't stop people from voting for Obama. It didn't stop people from voting for Clinton. What makes you think Biden will be treated any differently?
"voters are stupid, don't blame them for that."
Y
Fuck Biden, and fuck the DNC, may they rot in hell, but Trump would be worse for people I love and care for.
My only hope is that the GOP implodes due to infighting, and the DNC splits into a leftist and establishment group of parties, so that we can choose between a leftist and a liberal, not a liberal and a fascist.
"Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?" Yes
For anybody saying no, I would like to know what radical action we were all supposed to have taken in 2021 to the present that would have fixed America, or how revolution will be easier under a Trump presidency, or what specific plan the vast majority of leftists and progressives wants to enact
To clarify: fuck Trump 75%, and fuck Biden 25%. Does that work for everyone?
Weird how that makes it seem like the people trying to make things better are the ones responsible for making things worse. It's almost like the whole system was set up to give us two horrible choices and make us think the lesser evil is actually good. That way we won't try to really fix anything ourselves and just get angry at the people who do for "wasting their votes". No hate to anyone who thinks this way just sharing another perspective.
I'd rather have Biden than Trump. But I'd rather have Dr. Cornell West or Claudia de la Cruz more than either of them by a lot. Hell I'm probably going to vote for one of them. I live in Maryland, a blue state that'll go to Biden anyway. If anybody has a problem with that, I don't care 🤷
I'm going to vote so hard, that'll teach 'em
Y
I don't begrudge the people who don't want to vote for him. For those who see their vote as support and complicity, I understand the reluctance. If Biden suddenly said fuck gay and trans people tomorrow, I would not be a happy camper. I would not be happy voting for a politician who hates gay people and deny them their rights.
But I would still do it. And I hope everyone who doesn't want to vote for him still comes around in November to reluctantly do so.
I am not a man of any faith, but prayers for a timely stroke have crossed my mind.
Y
And let’s not forget the right-wing trolls that shill the propaganda that feed the leftists rhetoric.
Let's vote against someone meh for not being left enough, there will surely be no negative consequences to voting against someone for not being left enough
"Being meh" is my new favorite definition of "enabling genocide"
Milosovich was meh.
Adolf Hitler was pretty meh
"But voting doesnt matter! Billions of dollars are spent and countless bills are passed to disenfranchise voters, but my opinion is def not bought and paid for by the very same to help enact their bullshit!"
Genocide is not meh. If we don't turn around on this then we aren't the US anymore. I'm not going to play shades of moral blackness. I was willing to play with grey shades because there was a possibility of moving this back to actually helping people instead of exploiting them. But now we're exploiting the lives of poor starving people for donor money.
refusing to vote is not giving trump anything. y'all keep misrepresenting the sentiment. the vote does not matter. when you vocalize that you intend to not vote for anyone in the ruling class, whether they are blue or red that really gets everyone talking and saying that you are handing the presidency to the opponent. as if the electoral college didn't do that when trump lost the popular vote to hillary. yes please tell me how i, one person on federated decentralized platform with no corporate sponsorship, am undermining democracy when we don't really have one that gives us real opportunity to control the government.
You're undermining democracy by NOT VOTING LMAO
It's literally that simple. The electoral college isn't a conspiracy theory, it just weights votes slightly unequally. Your vote is still counted and if more than like 55% of the country votes for someone they're getting in. I don't get what's so hard to understand about this. We're not North Korea, use your damn votes people!
You mean if you live in a battleground state. Everyone else lives in a state that would require a massive change.
Oh look we're supporting a genocide. I wonder if that's enough to do it?
you're right that its not a conspiracy theory, it is simply a conspiracy.
Not all idiots support Trump. Honestly, this is a good reminder. Apathy is still going strong and in lieu of truly understanding a system some folks would rather listen to an obviously broken gps and hard left straight down a boat ramp and into a lake.
This is so tiring constantly arguing with people like you. It's always either "Trump is the worst! I'm not voting for Biden!" or some conviction that they cannot enact change where their only attempts to create change is yelling loudly about how unfair things are with absolutely zero action. I'll give Republicans this much: As often as they disagree and argue with one another, come voting time they sure as hell put aside those differences and agree to support one person. Meanwhile the rest of us continue to argue about things like "Oh man, Biden has kept like two dozen promises and is working on keeping even more but oh geez he broke a handful. Just the worst person ever. I'm gonna abstain from voting!" and then have the gall to say they're making the right choice.
Like...fuck. Maybe it's time we stopped being so nice. Literal fascism is knocking and people's lives are at stake here in the U.S.; people are dying here too. Our apathy and willingness to turn a blind eye through patience and understanding has gotten us to this position. How much more before it finally runs out.
Sorry, I'm just so damned concerned. This is a pivotal time. We can have a chance to fix things, we just need to come together for once. Fuck.
Ok and this prevents you from voting how?
It doesn't. That's not the only reason I'm not voting. I'm not voting because it concerns democrats that I am not voting for them. Maybe instead of being concerned with someone that is using their constitutionally protected right to choose not to vote, you should listen to the criticisms and take a stand. Maybe if democrats fulfilled their promises, there wouldn't be growing discontent with them.
Wouldn't calling your representatives and notifying them of your dislike of their policies be even more effective?
If you have to defend your actions by saying "uhhh ok but it's not illegal to do that" then your reasoning is bad and your actions are likely bad too
Kind of hard to do when we're only half of the government. I'll let you know next time we have a supermajority (admittedly we could have done more last time we had one).
What makes you think i havent? All you get is an answering machine anyway
y'all are acting like im committing a cardinal sin by not participating in complying with a genocide
and how many more times will they lead us on. if they know that they cant fulfill it, why say it?? they constantly say we will do this, and this and that and then we get nothing but excuses citing conditions or factors that were well in play before they got the vote. intentional false advertising
Western democracy originated in ancient Greece. This political system granted democratic citizenship to free men, while excluding slaves, foreigners and women from political participation. In virtually all democratic governments throughout ancient and modern history, this was what democracy meant. An elite class of free men made all the decisions for everyone. Before Athens adopted democracy, aristocrats ruled society, so "rule by the people", or the idea of a government controlled (in theory) by all its (free) male citizens instead of a few wealthy families seemed like a good deal. But really it was just a new iteration of Aristocracy rule rather than the revolution it's painted as. The rich still rule society by feeding voters carefully constructed propaganda and keeping everyone poor, overworked and desperate to be granted basic needs by the state.
In democracies today, only legal citizens of a country are granted democracy. In a lot of countries, people who have been convicted of a "crime" are denied the right to vote, regardless of how long ago they served their sentence. In the US, this is used to deny voting rights to minority groups, who make up a large proportion of the prison population.
In some societies only a small minority group are allowed to participate in the democracy. In Apartheid South Africa, the minority group (European settlers) granted themselves democracy and excluded the native majority, using democracy to deprive the native population of the rights granted to European settlers. Anarchy, of course, is an absence of government; of rulers. Democracy aims for the individual to be governed, ruled, controlled by others.
Democracy has forever been synonymous with class based societies. It has split entire countries into two barely-distinctive political parties (conservative and "progressive") that are nevertheless permanently at each other's throats. Even in its most libertarian-friendly forms, it has constantly failed to avert hierarchy, coercion and the authoritarian machinations of majority-groups.
It’s crazy how you can comment something this logical and well thought out, and the next comment will be; “but if you don’t vote for Biden, Trump will be worse.”
Hey, I think this is the first time a meme of mine has been reposted! Look at me, mom, I made it!
No, I made this. [insert meme]
FUCK YOU I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!
"Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?"
Yes
David Sedaris
If you deny people their right to expect their politicians to deliver what they want, then you will lose them. Yes Trump is a serious risk, but Biden could easily listen to the people, and deliver what they want. There are so many things he could do. There are things he is doing, but people are allowed to expect more.
Politicians need to meet the needs of the people. Why is it always expected that people meet the needs of the politicians in order to prevent catastrophe, without getting what they need.
So the deluge of Biden admins who have resigned because of the genocide in Palestine: are they all Trump supporters now since they are withholding their support for Biden?
Good lord, it is horrifying to think about what kind of horrific monstrosities the dems will support in coming decades in the name of "harm reduction" instead of asking hard questions about the viability of their political system, which is bought and paid for by special interests. I give it 5 more presidential cycles before the democratic tagline evolves into "vote for our candidate who only wants to do 5 genocides as opposed to the one who wants to do 6 genocides!". Y'all have been anchor biased hard as fuck. Liberals will continue to prop up genocide such that they don't have to question capitalism, or contemplating what kind of steps would need to be taken to dismantle it.
The history is there folks, read it before you start taking shots to the left as you flail - trying and failing to understand how your country is backsliding into genocidal fascism.
Y
Biden is doing a fine job. The world is on fire, we need a steady hand right now.
No, I'm English. We've got our own horrible cunts to vote out.
Absolutely. There's no other reasonable option. There are other options. None of them are reasonable.
Instead of making these two idiots our only options, why don't we vote for other people instead?
I live in a blue state, so unless the poles are even slightly worrying I might vote 3rd party. But regardless I'll probably vote Biden.
I vote for Pedro
This election is easy. Vote blue because the only other viable party is straight up fascist and don't even want another election (because they'd keep losing). So I'll vote for a blue rock if it's a vote against the people saying they wanna take us back to the stone ages with a touch of Nazi Germany with a sprinkle of Italian fascism on top, and don't forget the good old American fascism. Comes in 5 great new flavors!
It is on Biden to course correct and be serious about trying to win here. It seems that is not in the plans. The message of fear is not going to be enough when Trump was already President before.
Neolibs after voting for 5 steps towards fascism instead of 10:
"We did it Patrick! We saved democracy!"
Y
However if the next election ends up being something similar to the current one where it becomes another a vote not for X means a vote for Y, I'm going to vote Z regardless of the potential outcome it's the only way to actually make change in our system it just requires people actually going through with the threat of not voting X or Y
It honestly depends how it goes
If the democratic party keeps going against everything that would create a better world, and constantly just runs as the "less worse" party, then no. I'm not willing to vote for him again. Sometimes you need to lose freedom to see how much it really matters
Trump is a fucking awful choice. And choosing him will cause the downfall of America.
But it's been a very long time since America was the beacon of progress and freedom and progress. Im more worried about how we take care of the planet and deal with the impending climate crisis. This shouldn't be a country thing, it should be a human thing.
Y
For all that Biden has done and is doing wrong, he has still done more good for people here at home. People here choosing not to vote for Biden simply because of his support for Israel would damn this entire country, their country, to help people who don't even know them terrify me.
https://lemmy.world/post/11141507 duuuupe
I will likely vote for Biden because I don't consume MSM junk news or Putin's psyops propaganda that permeates social media. Few people understand the Israel/Palestine situation
People who refuse to vote for Biden because he's a criminal are not going to vote for another criminal either. Propaganda makes you believe you must pick a side between red and blue, you can vote for a third party or don't give your support to the government at all
No.
You cannot hold us hostage and blame us if Trump wins. Biden can stop supporting a genocide. The DNC could drop him as a candidate.
This is a choice the Democratic elite are making. And if there are no consequences here then there's no hope to get off this pro corporate train into fascism either. They'll just keep following the GOP to the right until in 2028 it's, "we have to support Harris Youth because DeSantis would dissolve Congress."
I've watched the Democrats dive to the right every single election in my life, except one. And I've held my nose every single time they did it.
I'm just gonna abstain to vote for president but vote down the ballot blue everywhere else.
Because I have been told time and time again that Biden doesn't need to court Progressives because the important thing is courting the centrists who will get him elected. So if I won't make an impact then, why does it matter if I don't vote for him?
It can't be both that my vote is the most important and not necessary. And I get the argument of, "well he needs to court the centrists who are morons and you just need to vote because you know better." but I know better and I won't just be a reliable vote just because they expect it they are owed it for not being worse.
I want a government that takes it's job seriously. Not expects to keep it because what other choice do I have. And my only power is voice and vote which is practically worthless as working class.
So either Biden will win because everyone is right. No left party in the US and they don't need us or they are gonna change tactics. But I'm tired.
Y
Joe Biden is complicit in genocide and we should be honest about that.
He's also likely a rapist.
biden doesn't speak for me
"Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?"
Primary: No General: No. Voting third party.
I'm in California.
This system is completely broken and no longer democracy.
Bigger problem is sort of generally just that people have like, no agency to exercise any political will really outside of basically fundamentally rigged and undemocratic system that only comes around every 4 years. Also partially talking about local and state elections too, there. If you're lucky enough to be part of a union, the union is probably also shit because this is america.
On the other hand, I find it really epic and cool that people are now having political discussions through prearranged talking points via spongebob memes. That's really epic, and very cool, and we all love that. If we've kinda reached the point where we're able to just simulate entire discussions through spongebob image macros, you think we would've arrived at a kind of ultimate truth, here, at some point. Even just for a given goal, or set of constraints, or given set of information.
I will also say, most of these spongebob memes are just meant for the in-group. None of these are convincing anyone to change their mind, they're written exclusively from the perspective of someone who's just reaffirming their worldview. The OP's one literally just like, mocks the opposition, there. I don't think you're gonna convince anyone with that, but I've also never seen a convincing one just generally. You'd be better off just formatting a well-sourced writeup, and then copy-pasting that in many places, so people can actually interact with the different links, instead of just looking at the macro and being convinced solely on the basis of rhetoric therein. I've seen better image macros propagated on 4chan for blatantly conspiratorial garbage, because those at least had the pretense of being well-sourced, even if they were just blatantly bullshit if you pushed back and looked up the sources even a little. The misinformation, basically, was trying much harder than this.
I'm all for not voting for Biden, but how about people at least wait until the alternative isn't Trump?
edit: So curious about all the amount of downvotes, I can't imagine they are coming from Trump fans. Is that a testament to the amount of people that would still vote Biden even if there were actually decent competition? Or maybe it's a testament to the US love for a one party state or your vote goes to the devil sort of party politics it has devolved to..
Something something, the whole system is fucked, we're all fucked, we all think we're free to turn where we want, but none of us paved the roads.
Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election? N.
First thing is I am going to vote against Biden in the primary. Second thing I am going to do is vote 3rd party for president and blue down the rest of the ballot.
I live in a state that the president election is decided (Delaware). I will vote blue since there is issues in Delaware like absentee and early voting that is on the docket. I live in the south of Delaware. Fun fact democrats don't even run someone for state senate in my district. In ice cream millionaires son wins my district
I'm pretty sure most people are on board with this logic. All of the noise in comments about Genocide Joe or voting 3rd party are 100% right wing agitators and/or bots.
“Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?” N
Of course I'd still be more upset if Trump win than Biden, but it doesn't matter who I vote for in my state. If my state is even close in the election, then Biden won by the biggest landslide since like 88 even if my 1 vote was enough to change the outcome from Trump to Biden somehow. So why would I give my votes for genocide when I could vote for people who are against genocide when it doesn't even matter in terms of the 2024 election outcomes? Why not demonstrate to local candidates that there are votes to be had for actual leftwing candidates instead?
False. Biden is risking all that to support a genocidal aggressor.
Here's an idea: fix the problem by not supporting Israel!
HOORAY! WE DID IT!
Not American, but it would be Y.
Of course not voting/voting Trump will not save Palestine, I can't imagine anyone really thinks that. But imagine, if you can, that you do want to save Palestine, like actually do something to change the approach of your government. What would you suggest? Biden sometimes says the right things but does NOTHING practical. Aside from selling them weapons and voting down cease fire resolutions. I think it's honestly pathetic to complain about people having a problem with that just because it's an election year. Best time to genocide Palestinians I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
N. A vote for hindenburg is a vote for hitler.
I am not voting for the guy sending the bombs used to carry out a genocide, who maintained and is campaigning on Trump's policies (such as shutting down the border and building the wall).
If the dems want my vote, give me a candidate that a. Is not doing genocide, and b. Offers a more meaningful difference in my life than a day's missed pay.
N...yet. Despite some of the claims, we, Russians, don't participate in foreign elections.
That said, the existence of the state of Israel is entirely because of the US support. One could say, it's a US-orchestrated proxy war against the Arab league. The ongoing genocide is on you guys (yes, you too can throw bricks at me for the Ukraine war). But, on the other hand, without the US support, Israel is likely going to fail, and Arabs are definitely going to return the favor, causing even bigger genocide, and disdain from millions of Jews, most of which are in the US. It's a lose-lose situation. I don't see any reason why Trump, being the racist that he is, would drop the US's base of operations within middle east either.
So, vote Biden, I guess, he's a two faced fuck but at least he's not actively malicious or trying to turn the US into an authoritarian state (trust me, that'd suck).
I'll answer your question if you answer mine.
Will I vote for Biden in 2024? Yeah.
Now, my question: why are you so quick to lick the sweaty taint of a slightly less evil, but still evil, party?
Today? No. I cannot in good conscience vote for Biden. But I don’t fault others who will vote for him.
In 8 months? Maybe. It depends on how Gaza is handled, and how much Trump scares me.
Something something we have to support genocide because trump bad.
"If we get rid of Palestine entirely by election-time, everyone will have to vote for me" -Joe Biden (probably)
[N] I will be voting for RFK Jr.
This is all a bunch of hyperbolic nonsense. Yes trumps an idiot, yes hes an ignorant assbackwards loon.
Yes biden is also a blithering idiot and his party is literally as corrupt as an eastern bloc republic. Yes his administration is blatantly incompetent at basic governance, and lies to the public routinely.
This entire clown show is fucking ridiculous. The united states is an overglorified corrupt corporate oligarchy with nuclear weapons.
The corporate 2 party system and the military industrial complex oligarchy needs to be brought down. This entire trump vs biden bullshit is a legit circus distraction.
Honestly NATO should be disbanded. If there is no Soviet Union, there should be no NATO. Most of the wars in the World right know are fought by NATO countries. You can vote for whoever you want, but I really think the focused should be on getting Biden and Trump not to be candidates anymore, then focusing on the fight between the two. They have a lot more similarities with each other, then between us and them.
Red Trump Blue Trump Money pump money dump
I keep getting texts and emails asking for me to donate to Bidens campaign. Not only does he want my vote, he wants my money too? I don't see anything sacred about our elections. When you have 20 people running for president (all collecting donations too) when we all knew who the nominees would be, its clear to see that this is just a reality TV show and the governing process is not something we really get to participate in.
Imagine how cool it would be if the choice was not between Donald Trump and Joe Biden but instead between Gavin Newsom and Nikki Haley.
Do you have a better option?
Does anyone honestly think that a right wing president would be doing anything differently on these issues?
Look, I won't tell you who to vote for, but don't judge me by who I vote for. This is a lot like deciding if you want to get waterboarded or spend time on the rack.
No matter what you choose, you get to suffer. Trading out one bad option for a worse option because you don't like what the first guy did, is insane, because you're definitely not going to like what the second guy does.
I voted uncommitted, I will not be voting for 99% hitler or 99% hitler (blue)
stop enabling Israels genocide you sick freaks
You can replace the entire top text with
And it would be just as if not more true.
I don't think it will be that bad
When your main candidate has spent his entire life in DC playing the "save the issue as an election wedge" game, we can expect nothing positive.
“Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?” No.
If all Biden has to do to earn your vote is not be Trump, then you aren’t getting much else. People should vote for who earned their vote, not for who commits a genocide knowing he won’t lose a vote.
let it all burn coz this system is definitely not working for people like me and we are being subjugated, painted as terrorists and killed either way.. i’d rather a real fascist than a halfway crook..
none of your fucking business. and before you accuse me of fascism, remember it's the fascists and authoritarians who demand blind loyalty and vote checks.
I can of course recognize trump is worse than biden. I can also recognize that Biden is still bad, and call that bullshit out. Perhaps Biden should maybe recognize; like any human with a fucking soul that genocide is fucking bad and maybe do what he can to stop it. So far; all we have is vague promises and platitudes while sending increasing amounts of money and arms to the genocidal dickfucks.
congratulations, you provoked me. troll.
I dont need your hate. But Democracy needs your vote.
Torch him for Palestine all you want, AFTER Trump is in the ground and the GOP crumbles.
If you cant swallow your pride, then you deserve MAGAmerica.
Facts
Don't negotiate till you have zero leverage!
Neoliberals sure are something else, you all should really help Americans and open car dealerships with those negotiating skills.
How does one negotiate with the incumbent president?
Make him primary to see what the American populace actually cares about again instead of him just guessing and only doing Diner sit downs.
If your idea of negotiation is the equivalent of drilling holes in the boat while we are all at sea, you are a terrible negotiator.
The primary is the only time to drag Biden left, and even then it's likely he ignores his campaign promises if elected.
Telling people they can't even do that, is just going to make them give up and become disengaged.
Biden isn't a strong enough candidate to do that, he barely beat trump last election. He had plenty of popular votes extra, but because the electoral college is a thing, if trump got like 30k more votes in 3 states, Trump would have won again. Biden needs every vote he can get.
Pretending everything will be fine so we don't have to do anything doesn't work for climate change and it doesn't work for elections.
No one is pretending everything is fine, we are just in triage mode for democracy and are trying to save the patient first because the alternative is massively worse.
By slapping the patient and saying they need to lose weight before they treat their bullet wounds.
Everything is mismatched responses and no one listens to anything but themselves and their echo chamber anymore.
It's not bad advice to vote for the obviously not fascist wannabe but it's not gonna be the best advice when we can see his polling numbers are fucking atrocious, and the beatings aren't getting those numbers back up. No one is just talking to the American people and asking what their symptoms are and building a plan from it. It's all just assumed but no one seems to be actually on the same page.
The difference is I'm talking about how to save American democracy...
And you're talking about how to trick people into voting for the oldest person to ever run for US President.
Biden only has to be the candidate because the DNC says so. They're not good at picking candidates if you haven't noticed. Because they care more about donors and fancy fundraisers than getting votes.
By making sure the one candidate that has the support of the most anti democratic forces is elected.
Bold strategy, Cotton…
I love how your ilk just wipes away minor details like "discouraging voters from voting by lying and saying Biden and trump are similar is not only not destructive, it actually is good"
There is no primary. He's the candidate.
Please stop trying to make the democratic party as undemocratic as the republican party.
It's kind of our last option, and every election would be a slam dunk if we just ran an average candidate
Dunno, if I were on a boat with someone trying to sink it I'd probably be willing to give them some concessions. I might even be willing to try to stop a genocide that I have the power to stop, despite how crazy that sounds.
To be honest maybe America does deserve Trump. Biden is no where near as bad as Trump but maybe when your countries leadership boils down to choosing one keeping the status quo while genociding or the other being a fascists while genociding you don't really deserve anything good.
I'm sorry, are you saying that millions of people, including children, all deserve to suffer because their establishment sucks?
Precisely what they said, yes. People are such trash...
We elect our establishment. We don't live in a dictatorship. You can't argue that we collectively aren't somewhat responsible for who we put in office.
We are, to a point. US election system is particularly bad in representation, what with gerrymandering and voters disenfranchising, but even if it wasn't it's callous to say people deserve to suffer because they don't understand what they're voting for.
You're speaking from a position of privilege.
How? Will live in age were information is more freely available than in any other part of history. It's your responsibility to be an informed voter. Ignorance isn't an excuse to give your vote away.
As Americans we all are. We don't live in a monarchy or a military dictatorship. Everyone is screaming about how important this election is for democracy but democracy is how we got here. Every person who instituted policies that encouraged voter disenfranchising and gerrymandering was voted in. Those who decided not to challenge these policies and kept the status quo were voted in. Facism doesn't happen overnight. In a lot of cases the populace genuinely asks for it
Nice take, you should tell it to the women who could die if there was a nationwide abortion ban, or maybe someone in the LGBT community that Trump wants to put in camps. I'm sure they'll love to hear that they deserve it.
Gee I wonder why such a trash fire of an opinion would get downvoted.
Do you have a prom date yet
I'm voting for Trump. Liberals have shown me how unhinged they are with their support for Hamas.
No. Me and my dead relatives are going to vote for Trump. The only way to get this country out of the drain.
Even if there was another candidate, I 100% guarantee you that they would still support Israel. It's not a candidate issue, it's an American policy issue, one that can only really change by getting new blood in politics. And let's face it, it's not exactly like new blood is lining up to get into politics.
So... Fuck your single-voter minded argument and look at the bigger picture.
things biden has done fuck all on:
Things he's not done enough on:
I mean, are there really any issues he's actually peformed to expectations on?
I agree you have it bad there. Unfortunately in politics we have to vote for the least bad option. On all the issue listed though, a lot is due to congress, mainly because people decided that republicans and their idea of not governing is preferable to democrats. Personally, I know the options are very bad, but I the sliver of democracy is still worth it to try to preserve in order to have the option to influence the next time around.
Things in either list Biden has the ability to directly influence policy on:
And yet, all that… he promised.
And yet I'm sure you would happily throw tons of those up as a reason Trump must stay out of office. Which is it?
It's almost as if structural flaws in our government mean Trump would have a more cooperative congress and the willingness to outright ignore the rule of law to accomplish his goals...
It's almost as if the Democrats want to accomplish nothing while claiming they're doing everything they can.
And let's not act like the presidential candidate has no effect on the races themselves. Biden being a milquetoast neoliberal head of the party was not what we needed to retake Congress. And it's not going to help in 2024 either. God, Democratic apologists are the worst hypocrites.
"You have to vote for Biden or Trump will do all of these things!"
"Biden is bad on those issues too."
"Something something it doesn't count for him."
Interesting Points. However:
Will you vote for Biden then?
[Y/N]
I just want to say this "litmus test" bullshit you've presented is close to the grossest thing I've seen on here. People have fought and died for the right to have private votes, your "However" shows prejudice and the dangers of political identities corrupting normal conversations.
A right you will loose, if you dont vote Biden this time and let Trump win.
Political Identities corrupting a conversation? There is an open fascist running for president, and some people STILL wont stand in the way of that.
There is no normal conversation anymore!
You do realize the irony in saying I will lose a right if I don't give up the right to my vote? I wish everyone would just be honest about this conversation, if you presented it as continued Oligarchy vs Fascism you might actually persuade some people instead of pretending it's still a democracy.
But regardless, you asking people to present their voting preference for how you conduct a conversation is just insulting and dangerous. This is when extreme ideologies look identical and I can't tell which side people are presenting.
Oh the "present your voting choice" is an effective-filter for trolls who want to both-sides-bad the argument presented. And to trigger some guys who REALLY dont understand that voting is often, sadly, a strategic choice that does not benefit from high-minded morals in the face of Fascism.
You can go around on other comment section and ask them if they will vote for Biden or not. And see how people choke on their pride, begging to be the smuggest guy on the train...
It also cuts straight to the point: You either vote for the bad choice, Biden in this case, to delay fascism and give Democracy more time to live. Or the GOP more to crumble.
Or you dont. And loose it all.
Call it informed-simplicity if you will, because sometimes the world is just that in the end. Simple.
You vote for the lesser evil at the ballot. Always.
And after that duty is done, you do the REAL political work by organising. Always.
No change will be made at the ballot. That is just to buy us more time to unionise, educate comming generations and build communities.
Do you want the better guy or the worse guy? Seriously, it's an easy choice, and at least for me, it's not the worse guy. He's worse. Why would you want the worse guy?
It's even simpler than that, they're being selfish. They want to be able to pat themselves on the back for being Ultra Pure™ by not voting for anyone. They're Above It All™
I shouldn't have assumed your specific position, but in general that language comes from someone who behaves as I mentioned. We don't have a choice right now, we don't have that luxury. I do agree that we should have an option, but in general parties don't run opposition to the incumbent because they know the incumbent won once, people generally are accepting of the individual as they reflect on their performance (as long as it isn't abhorrent) and so tossing in a "new" candidate comes with too many risks. Maybe the primary challenger wins within the party, but then the moderates or nevertrumpers can't stomach the new choice and sit it out or worse go back to Trump (or whoever). That's pretty much why we generally don't see primary challenges between terms of a president.
You should know: Comments like this push more people further from your cause.
I've been yelling Blue no Matter Who since 2020 (The GOP is domestically compromised, if you don't see, you're either not paying attention or wearing rose colored glasses) and this hateful "fuck you coward" shit is even making me consider noping out. I won't, but you guys are not helping at all.
NO ONE is going to come away from an interaction like this and go "Wow... Ya know I was on the fence, but I guess I am being a bit of a pussy cuck. I'll vote for Joe Biden to save democracy"
If your aim is to get people on board, you have to start talking to them as intelligent adults.
...said the person enabling genocide
All those justifications for genocide and your seething anger that anyone would dare to question you make you sound exactly like a trump voter. You're not helping. It doesn't look like you're even trying to.
"Here's why an ongoing genocide is actually good" isn't pragmatism. I don't have a word for what it is, but it's bad. Very bad. Genocidally bad. No metaphors or scenarios or math equations are going to make it good. Your argument is shit and if it's all you've got then the best thing you can do for Biden is shut the fuck up and vote for him, because you're not helping.
Peak murrican geopolitica analysis
Based