Georgia Senator Vows to Protect Girl, But Then Runs Away After Learning She Is Trans
During a visit to lobby legislators on transgender issues, Senator Carden Summers (R) knelt down and told a child he would protect her. When he learned she was trans, he backed away.
On Feb. 6, a group of families met to lobby senators on issues affecting the local transgender community in Georgia. One mother, Lena Kotler, decided to take her two children with her to give the topic a human face. While waiting to meet with Democratic Sen. Kim Jackson, who they had heard was a big supporter of LGBTQ+ rights, another senator passed by — Republican Sen. Carden Summers, the primary sponsor of the state’s bathroom ban bill. Little did he know that one of the children he would be interacting with, Aleix, 8 years old, was a transgender child.
According to Kotler and other families who were present, the senator stopped to say hello. That’s when Kotler spoke to Senator Summers about how she was there with her kids to “talk to legislators about keeping her kids safe.” Although she did not mention that one of her children was trans, they were present with LGBTQ+ signage - something the Senator apparently missed when he knelt down in front of Aleix and said, according to Kotler, “Well you know, we’re working on that and I’m going to protect kids like you.”
Kotler then replied, “Yeah - Alex is trans, and she wants to be safe at school, she wants to go to the bathroom and be safe.”
That is when, according to multiple witnesses, Sen. Summers stood up and fumbled his words, repeating, "I mean, yeah, I'm going to make sure she's safe by going to the right bathroom," continuing to use the correct pronouns for Aleix. When asked if he would make her go to a boy's bathroom, he then allegedly backed away, saying, "You're attacking me," turned around, and walked off quickly.
https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/georgia-senator-vows-to-protect-girl?publication_id=994764&post_id=141716994Open linkView original on lemmy.zip
Oh no, better run to the bathroom to cry. Attacked by an eight year old, that poor soul.
“You’re attacking me by asking if I’m going to legislate against your needs”
Exactly. "My opinion is different from your life experience, and by showing me that fact first hand, you have made me uncomfortable."
And as we all know, being uncomfortable because of another person is an attack. Irony of ironies, imagine how uncomfortable people must make that kid all the time, including this specific interaction.
And this is why we need a national safe storage laws.
You really shouldn’t be storing guns in the bathroom!
(/s. What a fucking coward.)
He wasnt claiming to be attacked by the child but by the mother.
Edit: It is an important distinction because it exemplifies that it is not the trans-nature of the child that he is claiming to be attacked by but by the mother pressing him to abide by his own claims of protecting children.
Seems like he was being attacked by his own conscience.
And hurt himself in confusion.
Who gives a shit what he meant, he's a fucking coward and hypocrite. He made it clear that he never for a moment cared about "protecting children".
Blocked for being an aggressive asshole for no reason.
Sorry I guess I'm the only one that cares about accuracy
The distinction is meaningless in this situation and fucking irrelevant.
I'm not understanding what's making you so upset here.
It is an important distinction because it exemplifies that it is not the trans-nature of the child that he is claiming to be attacked by but by the mother pressing him to abide by his own claims of protecting children.
LMAO
Is he a moron, or is that a strategy? Lol
He's a coward, just like everyone else in his party. Afraid of a fucking child. His ancestors would be ashamed of him, and his descendants will disown him.
This is what facism looks like imo. Through and through.
"Will your bill do what it says?"
"HOW DARE YOU!"
And this is a legislator.
Brave Ser Summers ran away, Bravely ran away, away. When a child with questions to him was led, He bravely turned his tail and fled.
Please no one go to his Facebook page and find his number then leave him a voicemail singing that song
https://m.facebook.com/CardenHSummers4Senate
Yeah, nobody should go out of their way to buy a prepaid phone and harrass him like that. /s
Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Summers
Run away. I want you to be famous for those exact words. I want people to call you Senator Run Away. I want children laughing outside your door, because they've found the house of Senator Run Away. And, when people come to you, and ask if trying to get to me through the people I love is in any way a good idea, I want you to tell them your name.
I mean, maybe we should just yell that at conservatives?
Maybe it takes something so blunt for them to get it as hearing "you're attacking me".
And if it doesn't, I'm pretty sure that's all you need to say to use stand your ground laws in red states.
"yOu'Re AaTtAcKiNg mEeee!!!!"
What a dipshit.
It's very easy to attack people like that, usually been within about 50 miles of them is enough. Everything you do is offensive to them including breathing. People that sensitive need to be in therapy.
It's never not projection with these doofs.
In response to an 8 year old existing.
Given his fragility, cowardice, lack of self-assurance and failure to defend himself - all feminine traits (to these ghouls anyway) are we sure the good senator isn't trans himself? He's certainly not the picture of brave, confident masculinity.
DeSantis wears high heels - I'm pretty sure Trump does too (though smaller) - projection indeed.
Remember those pics of Goebbels, one before learning the photographer was Jewish, and one after?
Thats exactly what popped into my brain while reading this.
attached for reference.
Here's a before pic
What a fucking snowflake.
Literally a word causes him to throw away his cause. Going to bet this dude would absolutely abandon his own children. Party of family values my ass.
Kid: “I’m trans.”
Senator Carden Summers: “What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.”
Was definitely not expecting to see this copy pasta here.
You're attacking me, my ass. See how easily they project? It's not even a thought they have, they just exhale bullshit
Imagine having to be that kid, someone saying they'll protect you and then accusing you of attacking them for part of yourself that you have no control over
They were there waiting to meet a Democratic supporter of LGBTQ+ rights, and did not seem to be seeking confrontation. Even the way the mother spoke to the Republican senator was about as non-confrontational as you could get, so I don't see any evidence the mother is putting the kid in any situation she can't handle. I'm sure the kid is glad to show up in support of her rights, and very much doubt she will regret doing so later.
Save your cynicism for when it's appropriate.
The article states that they went to the legislative building to lobby politicians. While they were waiting to meet a democratic senator, this interaction took place. It doesn't say anywhere in the article that they went with the express intent to only interact with said democrat. But whether you're meeting allies or opponents, it's the same shit. You're using children as tools.
If those children are representative of the oppressed group, shouldn't they also have a voice and a face?
Emmet Till's mother was just using his death as a tool by your logic.
Fair criticism, but ultimately this needs to be fought. The simple hypocrisy that was shown just by the child's presence needs to be highlighted.
It isn't, and everyone that read the beginning of the article knows they were there to meet someone else.
The goose-stepping goon made a completely unforced error to try and turn them into props.
Then fucking comes back with more bs. I wish these twats would actually just say the quiet part out loud instead of pussyfooting around trying and failing to be clever with their agenda pushing.
Christianity really messes people up.
Organized religion is one of fascism's most important tools.
I agree with you that they are not interchangeable. A large swath of Christians are appalled by fascism.
But, they have historically used each other for their own means, and that can be difficult to ignore. I think once again people are seeing the two get back together, and we all know how that relationship turns out.
The Bible is very clear. Christianity is fundamentally anti-LGBT. Stop following it if you want to be a good person.
I'm not going to argue the point that homosexuality and at least the modern interpretation of the Christian faith are adversarial at best but the Bible is anything but clear on anything let alone LGBTQ. You quoted one of dozens of different English translations let alone any other language. Hell in one of the most popular translations, the King James Bible, the man had the word "tyrant" removed from it so the peasants wouldn't get ideas
Completely disagree. The Bible is clear on almost nothing except the LGBT. All the games of translations won't change the repeated commandments of the OT against the LGBT, the endorsement of the rules of Moses by Jesus, the repeated and clear statements by Paul, the +20 centuries of understanding of the meaning of those OT passages, or how Christianity has traditionally understood them.
Yeah I quoted KJV. So what? Here is as many translations as you want
https://biblehub.com/romans/1-26.htm
Stop apologizing for the text, you know what it says. You know why Sodom was destroyed, you know why Jonathan's "friend" was described as such, you know what Elijiah said about the destruction of Sodom, you know what Leviticus says twice about consensual LGBT relationships, you know what Deuteronomy says about the trans and what Leviticus says, you know what Paul said twice, you know what famous commentary writers like Philo said, and you know that Jesus consistently supported the sexual norms of his culture and argued they didn't go far enough.
I did the same thing you did when I was finding my way out of religion. "It wasn't really slavery", "it wasn't really genocide", "it wasn't really anti-gay",.... I didn't want to believe what was right on the page. The Abrahamic religions have been clear and are still clear to this day about what their texts say. They are irredeemably hateful.
You misunderstand. I think the Bible in any form we can understand it in today is utterly meaningless and is impossible to apply practically to any situation regardless of context. It can't be used by bigots to justify their hatred of any given minority and it can't be used to globally define the Christian ethos.
But it is used. This is not on me. They are the ones dragging this book into our time. All I am doing is pointing out what the book actually says.
Sure you can make the argument that the Bible is a product of Christianity and not a blueprint for it. Hence the text does not have to be followed and you can still be a Christian. Now who is making that argument? I certainly have never heard anyone who identified as a Christian make it. The very closest are the Catholics who at least are willing to admit the text isn't perfect which is really not in the same ballpark.
Live by the sword die by the sword right? Ok well they have made their religion about their book. I didn't tell them to do that, they choose that. So turns out the book is shit. What does that make their religion?
What is the field or area of inquiry that focuses on in inconsistencies like that? What is him removing the word tyrant reprrsentative of in terms of a field that exists to root out that kinda bullshit?
Like biblical scholasticism or like what focuses on examining the original language primary text and comparing the authenticity/integrity of the translated comparison target?
Textual analysis is the blanket term. There isn't really primary text, there are a bunch of slightly different ones that get combined together. What's more the process seems to have started way in the beginning. The first gospel shows signs of being multiple texts/traditions that were combined.
I don't think the Bible was even written down or at least there aren't any surviving copies from that time. This seems to be the oldest copy of the Bible, it's in Greek and from the fourth century. So it's already been translated and it's from at least 300 years after Jesus died. So we'll never really know what "the original Bible" said.
Yeah I'm always reminded of this piece https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CPjWd4MUXs .
One of my favorite fantasy shows 🙂
Sounds to me that the passage is saying "God made people gay".
Well I don't see that but it really doesn't matter. "and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error."
Paul wasn't a top thinker. Even when it seems to occur to him that if God is the architect of all things no one can be punished for doing the wrong thing he just invokes the devilish forces (that God allows to operate) to step in. His conception of free will and judgement are not complicated they just aren't thought out very well.
Christ never knew you.
Given that he never existed I am positive of that. At most he could only "know" me in the sense the Easter Bunny could. You know, not at all.
Now instead of talking about me why don't you address what I said? Might be more fruitful
I think I responded to the wrong poster. I meant to say that to the person saying (falsely) that the Bible condemns queerness.
Have they never heard of David and Johnathan? Does Jesus taking twelve men and washing their feet mean nothing? Was John not the Beloved disciple?
I am a queer Catholic, and it deeply angers me when people believe that the two are mutually exclusive. The current wave of LGBT hatred (in the USA, at least) started with the Evangelical church in the 1940's. It is not some ancient and infallible dogma.
Forgive me for causing you anger, I spoke only to gently admonish and correct the sinner.
The Bible does condemn being LGBT.
Sure and why doesn't the Bible say explicitly what their relationship was?
Means nothing. Clearly a call back to the references in the OT of the same act.
And?
The Catholic Church had literal torture devices specifically for male homosexuals.
I think if you scroll up you will see a decent breakdown of all the references to homosexuality in the Bible, but if you want you can just look at what Paul said twice.
No worries. Save you some time I have been an open atheist since 2018.
Hatred begets hatred.
I spoke to inform both the believer and the non-believer.
There are Christians in this world who have taken Christ's words to heart and strive to live in His image daily. This way of living inevitably leads to compassion.
There is the Church of Peter, and the Church of John.
The Church of Peter is the Earthly institution that instructs the faithful and leads to a life filled with Love.
The Church of John is the Church of the Beloved disciple who put his head on Christ's chest and listened to the heartbeat of the One who Created Love.
These two Churches are present in all people, at all times, throughout history. They shall never fail, as long as there is suffering in the world. This is why the faithful call them eternal.
When these two Churches are in harmony in the soul of the individual, and in the soul of the World, there is harmony. When they are in disharmony in the soul of the individual and the soul of the world, there is chaos.
Christ has Illuminated the soul of this individual, and there is only harmony.
This harmony is available to all, whether Jew or Greek, male or female, believer or non-believer.
Forgive me for being unclear in my communication, and I pray your soul knows this peace.
Theyre pretty fuckin interchangable
Ah yes, I'm sure Kim Jong Un attends his local Baptist Church every Sunday like a good fascist.
All of you misuse words.
Sounds like two neurons in his brain actually met for once and he felt empathy for someone he knew he was too young to understand why she's getting fucked over by her government.
It doesn't sound like that at all, at any point in the story?
Sounds like he he thought he could score a quick lil' political win with the group of families, before realising she was the target his hate, and expressing his bigotry to the child before fucking off.
"You're attacking me!" complains attacker.
Well I meant to say but forgot. That the empathy he felt turned into confusion and then anger and then he rubber banded back to his bigotry where he feels safe
I disagree. He saw the danger of him standing there when someone could take a pic. That is why he bravely screamed out at the 8 year old girl to stop attacking him.
He felt empathy for the first time, and it was an unfamiliar sensation that he recoiled from in his cowardice.
Nah, it wasn't empathy, it was a photo-op. He could be seen "caring" about the plight of kids who feel unsafe in school (his assumption was almost certainly school shooting). So he was there to vaguely promise to make schools safer, presumably by having fewer doors, since that is what causes school shootings evidently.
I think it's the opposite. I think he saw her as a girl whom he was protecting from trans girls using "her" bathroom.
Thats the thing about these people. I have a trans coworker and they wont dare use the wrong pronoun for her while it can reach HR's ears. Go ahead, say what you want to say don't hide it now. They hide behind legislation and screens.
Aleix is trans, but Summers is a pussy...does that mean that he's transitioning, as well?
He is no pussy, they take a pounding while providing pleasure to all involved.
Summers is a scrotum, thin skinned, can't take even a light strike without assuming an attack, and he shriveled away when he realized the temperature was a bit cold to him.
Some people do enjoy some CBT though. He's scum.
I'm going to have to remember this.
Jesus christ that headline is the most satirical sounding headline ive ever seen period. It spunds more satirical than actual TheOnion h eadlines
There's always someone...
If Summers was really serious about "protecting" trans children, he should have said he was going to place the child into state custody. If there was an actual threat against the child, that's what he should do, but there is not and Summers knows it.
How can an 8 year old know if they are trans? That seems awfully young.
It's a gender thing, not a sex thing. You don't have to hit puberty to know.
What about you -- did you know you were cis* by the time you were 8? Are you sure?
If you could be that sure, why would a trans person be any different?
(* making a statistically-likely assumption)
I am not personally on board with the the "pick a gender to define your identity", but there are several traits I embraced that would have been "trans"-y when I came into my own self. When I was 8 I rolled with others perception and assumed everyone around me was right and I should like aspire to be a man and reject anything not manly. This has reinforced cisgender identity in most people, but there's one kid of a couple I knew who, as soon as they wanted to explore the question of gender identity, the parents went into full "I support my trans kid" and pushed their kid hard trans. They meant well, but kids are kids and shouldn't be held too hard to their stated choices. Putting the kid on parade in a very visible political display limits their ability to "back out" if they choose.
In short, I don't think people should be told they "know" their gender status before they grow into themselves a bit more.
This sounds very much like your own perception and has nothing to do with the kid. It's the adults in the room politicizing things that should be complete non-issues: how the kid identifies, how certain they are, and whether either aspect changes over time.
Did you not know your gender in 3rd grade? Some trans kids do too, especially now that there’s more awareness.
8 years old is also an extremely low stakes age to be trans, because it’s literally just clothes, name/pronouns, and haircut differences at that age.
My ex's kid came out as trans to usat 11 or so, and like..... Yeah. This is exactly the time to play with your sense of self when it doesn't fuckin matter. We've been doing for generations, but all of a sudden feeling and wanting to present more masculine just gives everybody a fucking aneurysm.
Never mind the people who have nothing better to do than go to war with children grew up with David Bowie and Eurythmics and shit. 🙄
It's so funny to me this new posturing of denial that kids can know their gender at a young age, when derogatory terms for this exact thing like "tomboy" and "sissy" have been around for generations. We have always known that some kids don't act like their gender assigned at birth.
The only thing that's changed is that we now know that this is actually normal and healthy, not some pathological problem that can be "solved" through abuse and shaming.
I understand, but I also thinnk things swing differently bad. If you imply a "tomboy" must be a man, because they like traditionally manly stuff, and a "sissy" should be a girl because they aren't violent, well, that seems rough too.
Also, people evolve. Fluidity should be the emphasis at that age.
Heck, I'm not particularly on board that you should pick one and align your whole identity with your choice, whether that's being cisgender as aggressively squishing down unfitting choices, or going trans and feeling compelled to leave all the traits of your physiological gender behind.
I don't think it can be rigidly defined for everyone, nor should it be. Some people are fluid in that sense, some people aren't.
Wow, what a concept! People could have a gender identity that doesn't match traditional conceptions of 'man' or 'women'! We could call it something like....'non-binary'.
/s
Your concern trolling completely ignores points the LGBTQ+ community have already thought of and explictly accepted. Nothing you have to say points to any meaningful problem whatsoever. You've been posting this drivel all over the thread. Go elsewhere.
You can also be cisgender and like things the other gender likes, you know. It’s not like every man who does ballet is trans or nonbinary.
Unfortunately, America runs on abuse and shaming - not Dunkin, as previously theorized.
I often think how wild it is that there was not a single (out) gay or trans kid in all my years in primary and secondary school (graduated in '94). I wonder now how many were and either didn't understand it enough to know it or were (justifiably) afraid to be who they were.
You've got a few years on me but this is very close to my thoughts whenever I hear someone decry the increase in youth who identify as LGBT+. Could it simply be more teens are more comfortable identifying because there is more acceptance?
There is still a long way to go, but it is better than it was.
I still know people my age who are hiding who they are sexually, in unhealthy or unsatisfying relationships, and that's just those I know about.
First thing I think of is the sharp increase in left-handedness that happened once it was no longer stigmatized by society.
My youngest knew they weren't a girl at age seven. They are 15 now and been very happy for the last four years using they/them pronouns and a chosen name.
It was always possible that one day they'd have changed their mind...hell, their cousin is non-binary as well and used he/they pronouns and a male name for six years before reverting back to the name and gender she was assigned at birth (she's 16 now).
The important thing is to listen to your kids (and anyone who is trans, really) and trust that they know themselves infinitely better than you ever could. Let people tell you who they are, and believe them. They may refine their understanding of who they are at a later time, and you should believe them then, too. When someone decides to change their major, you don't tell them "C'mon now...you're a psychology major...you've always been a psychology major." It's not entirely dissimilar.
I knew I was a boy and that I liked girls when I was 8 years old. I just project that same sense of identity I felt onto others and it becomes very easy to understand why others just know who and what they are and who and what they like. The world really needs a touch more empathy.
I'm a trans woman and I started to express my self femininely when I was just a toddler. I grew up in a rural area where I was always told that I am a boy and that I will grow up into a man who will have a wife and many children. I genuinely had never heard of queer people until I was tween, when my peers started using gay as an insult. If I had been taught about queer people when I was a kid, I definitely would have realized that I am trans then, and I wish I had been because being raised as a boy when you are a girl is extremely traumatic.
People can be born with all sorts of strange and terrible conditions, but somehow there are people who think babies can't be born with a brain that is a different sex than their body. Either that or they think the body should take precedence over the brain which is insane considering only one of those is sapient.
Just out of curiosity, how does a toddler express either femininely or masculinely?
Toddlers model behavior of the adults in their life. It can be as simple as whether they echo the behavioral quirks of the women more than the men, or vise versa.
Please be careful with this line of thinking, and don't push children into one direction or the other.
I spent more time in my early years with my mother due to my father traveling for work, so I naturally echoed her behavioral quirks more than his. I also showed a ton of interest in traditionally feminine toys and playsets. I had a baby doll and I'd play pretend parenting. I outright demanded a little play kitchen, back when all of them were clearly decorated/colored/coded "for girls". I wanted and they got me a barbie doll, and I played a shit ton of dress up. Never was one for rough and tumble play, sports, climbing trees, etc. More in touch with my emotions than my peers and not afraid to show them.
All that said, I've never had any issues with my own gender identity as a cis male. One of my earliest "writings" was "I'm going to be a dad" with a very scribbly drawing of a family.
There's another comment on this post about a mtf telling their parents that they were a butterfly and going to be a girl, at an early enough age that the commenter didn't remember saying it.
So kids can absolutely know, but we should be careful to never assume. If gender is a social construct, then we should also be working ourselves away from the idea that certain behaviors are masc or fem, not doubling down by saying they have any indication of a person's gender/potential to be trans.
Masculine and feminine are useful concepts with long roots in every culture on earth. The problem is when people impose a positive or negative connotation to them. It should be considered normal and healthy for someone who identifies on the male side of the spectrum to exhibit feminine traits, and so on.
It's just a conceptual framework that simplifies understanding. Our problems arise when we oversimplify, and forget that it is just an artificial construct we made up to explain our world.
I have a few memories from when I was somewhere between 2 and 4. One is of my sister getting some makeup (I think it was eyeshadow) for Christmas and I remember being very interested in it and trying to put it on.
Another is that I always loved hanging out in my sister's room and I remember liking to watch her put on nail polish and I would always ask her a million questions about it while she was doing it. I also liked playing with my sisters old toys more than some of my own. My parents got me toy cars, dinosaurs, and that type of stuff, which I did play with occasionally, but my most played with toys were my sister's old dolls.
Growing up with an older sister, I did much of the same stuff. I don't think those activities are limited to those that grow up to identify as "female". I think it's perfectly fine if an adult carries that over without having to declare themselves trans. Why shouldn't a "guy" get to like makeup and a bit more interesting clothes and like tallking to girls about stuff that "guys" don't talk about? If they think life is easier to go wholly into transgender once they tally up the totality of their existence, cool. But early life should be about flexibility and choices being open and not having to "pick a side".
I mean, be who you want. You can totally be AMAB and feminine and not be trans. I'm not telling people to "pick a side" or anything, just because we share similar experiences and I'm trans and you're not (I assume), that doesn't invalidate your existence or anyone else's.
Idk I think if someone kept telling me one thing and my experience was different I think I could tell something is up.
Some people just know at a young age. It's a spectrum, so some people don't experience dysphoria until puberty, some know when they're very young, some don't experience dysphoria and instead solely experience gender euphoria (in this context, euphoria from presenting as a gender other than their assigned gender at birth (AGAB)). It's complicated and not well understood.
The puberty situation was my general experience... But I also didn't really know trans people existed when I was young and my parents really didn't enforce any kind of gender stereotype upon me at all. I also just didn't care about clothes because my options were just hand me downs from my cousins. Aside from just feeling like my friends were somehow operating from a different playbook I had no clue.
Then puberty hit. It registered as a mild body horror because I basically still passed but I couldn't do the hand me downs anymore and I did some pretty unhealthy things like develop something of an eating disorder to avoid developing... I also started getting anxiety symptoms including heartburn so bad I thought I was literally dying. Life was generally so shit I didn't where to try improving so I just clung on with my fingernails because I knew my death would destroy my family.
I am glad that being trans is on the parental radar these days. It took me til I was 21 to figure out what was happening basically in a near complete vacuum of information pmuch less to figure out what to do. I often wonder where my experiences would have differed if I actually knew transness was a thing and at what age that realization would have happened.
8 is old enough to know a lot of things about yourself. Personally I knew I hated the idea of "being a man" at that age, i just wish i had realized sooner that growing into something else was a option. My mental health would certainly be about 1000x better if I had been able to transition then instead of as a overwhelmed, forsaken and misunderstood 19 year old...
Most people know their gender about 2.5 years old. It is pretty impressive when you are parent and see that lightbulb click. One day they have no opinions at all about clothing or toys and the next day they do.
Well, in some sense they know what they are supposed to be correlated with their physiology, but "gender identity" is a bit much, and it would be a mistake for someone to close the door on that question so early in life. Now I understand "but we use gendeered pronouns on 5 year olds, so obviously it's not open ended", and it's not ideal that there is a default, but ultimately, that kid is way too young to commit to that position. There's a whole lot of mental and physical development coming their way and they should be encouraged to keep an open mind, either way.
Once again, I will point out that people only have these concerns when somebody is trans, not when they're cis.
Also, do you think that a parent who is accepting of their kid being trans is going to be intolerant if the kid changes their mind? Of course not. No one is locking this kid into their gender identity; that's the entire frickin' point of the trans movement.
Your 'concerns' are either extremely misguided or a shield for transphobia, so you should probably knock it off.
But aren't some people concerned about folks oppressively pushing cisgender on their kids? Rightfully so, too.
I don't think the parents would be intolerant, I'm saying an eight year old may not have the maturity to recoginze, particularly if the parents made a huge production it of backing their coming out. For the same reason an 8 year old might be uncomfortable admitting they are trans, they may be uncomfortable after declaring trans to walk that back. Hell, I knew people who only felt comfortable admitting that wasn't their life after all choice until college, because they were afraid of losing the social dynamic they constructed by walking back such a huge thing. I also knew people who clinged hard to "normal" until later, so it cuts both ways. My goal as a parent has been to make it clear that I will be supportive, but either choice should be "boring" and subject to change. Saying that to a currently cisgender child can change their mind and declare trans is likely considered progressive, but to make it clear that a trans person can change their mind would be transphobic.
There's no easy answer, I think so much of the world is pointlessly gendered (interests and activities that are arbitrarily divided by apparent happenstance of genitals). I wish it wasn't the core of identity, that something as stupidly fundamental as pronouns didn't have to be decided based on acceptance or rejection of your default physiology.
Now... I am trans so this is my supposition and based on my discussions to cis people about the cis experience but I think there's somethings that we actually assume about cis people.
While some cis people seem to have a very solid gender identity that is in line with the tran experience of gender euphoria that seems actually kind of rare. I think a majority of cisness is actually defined by a lack of strong feelings about their body and their experience of gender. Their assumption of gender is simply the path of least resistance. Their experimentation when they have it is out of curiosity but it doesn't really resonate.
Do you think you would be upset at a foundational level if you woke up tomorrow in the body of the opposite sex and everyone had always known you as that way? Aside from maybe an uncomfortable adjustment of role and some interest in experiencing something different would you think that you would be terribly bothered? These sentiments can sometimes be construed as being a non-binary sort of thing - but the more I discuss the topic intimately with cis people to try and understand their experience the more that feels like the difference and particular advantage being cis represents. If you do not experience the pull and certainty of euphoria or dysphoria informing your cultural and biological needs that could be because what defines the majority of cis people is a fluidity and adaptability because of a near complete lack of preference rather than a preference that specifically matches a sex phenotype. Meanwhile transness can almost be defined as a surplus and rigidity of preference so we find ourselves trying to explain something like why we can't easily force ourselves to choke down food we detest to someone who maybe doesn't even experience taste.
A trans gender identity isn't exactly always subtly experienced. A correct gendering when you don't expect it might literally make your week. Disgust at your own body can make you run past the bathroom mirror so you don't have to look. It's not so much an "keep an open mind" kind of deal. You get a pack of stimuli like something entirely independent has a shock and reward system hardwired into your brain and you don't really control how you feel about it. When you talk about worrying about fluidity I think you are kind of concerned from the cis standpoint where being nebulous in gender is quite natural. From a trans community perspective we know we are on a journey where we are essentially learning the nature of the internal reward system. Our genders are reflections of that and we generally want to ditch whatever isn't working and update our coping mechanisms to account for changes or if we realize we didn't actually fully understand the exact nature of the trigger that was setting us off and can change our tactics accordingly to maximize functionality and happiness.
To further the parable a kid might after years of hating olives so much they spit them out whenever they eat them decide to try them again to see if their tastes have changed.. but it's not on parents to keep putting olives on the kids plate for them to "keep options open" when the kid can basically decide at any point to just reach across a the table and get their own olives if they want them. Maybe the kid knows they don't like olives because whenever they accidentally eat one it still tastes bad.
If someone keeps trying to hand you something you know you don't like and you keep having to passively or actively reject it... it can be really annoying and you generally stop wanting to be around that person.
I mean, when I was a kid some girls toys looked fun. Like easy bake ovens, who wouldn't want to eat food‽
Sure. Turns out not all humans fall into neat little boxes perfectly all the time.
Society drills gender roles into your head from birth. The more yours don't match, the easier it is to tell at an early age.
Gender identity is very dependent on external influence, such as society and language, but is usually well established by age five. I wish I had sources for you, but there was a study done on how gender use in native language influences awareness of gender. The more gendered words are present, such as in romance languages, the earlier gender identity is established.
Eight year olds don't need to know the definition of trans to know if they're a girl or a boy (gender).
I understand that it is difficult to grasp when you have been indoctrinated to believe one thing that has turned out to not be true. Most people go through life never truly knowing the interior life of another person. But parents know their children.
Good question, I'll link my comment to someone else asking the same thing: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/6550308
idk i didn't find out until i was a grown ass adult who was sexually mature so i don't understand how a kid could possibly know these things for sure
I imagine it is a contrast issue is why you don't understand. Which is fine.
No one ever told me I am a fire squid wearing a human suit. Not once. If someone had decided to tell me at say 8 years old I am pretty confident I wouldn't have been convinced. If you also asked 8 year old me if I was human I am pretty confident he would have said yes. If the world is telling you what agrees with your understanding of the world then you don't even note it. It is a grass is green type statement. If however the world is telling you what you know to be false you will remember how strange this experience was.
Makes sense now?
Gotta love that he doesn't even realize he's saying Aleix is a girl and girls should be using the girls' bathroom.
Edit: I really want to know if the people downvoting me are anti-trans bigots or don't understand that an anti-trans bigot accidentally took her side even after realizing she's trans?
Worth noting he's a senator in the state legislature, not one of Georgia's federal senators who are both broadly pro LGBT+
At 8 years old... Does she actually know if she's trans or did the mother tell her she was?
full disclosure: I'm trans - my story at the end.
It doesn't really work that way... if she was told "you're trans" and wasn't, she would experience the opposite type of gender dysphoria over time and would want to express masculine/boy identity in line with her birth gender and physical traits.
She's young enough that it's not infeasible she might change her mind. Ideally she has been to a licensed therapist and/or psychologist who verified she met the latest DSM diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria (the only successful treatment for which involves transition), and they are helping the parent manage this process. They'll be in no hurry for medical intervention since puberty would be 4-5 years away most likely.
That being said, if you meet enough trans people, it's not uncommon to hear stories about "knowing since I was 4". Oftentimes it's accompanied by a regret that their feelings were suppressed and they had to go through the torments of puberty "in the wrong body" as it were.
My own story is different. I didn't "know" until my thirties, even if I can see signs going back to childhood in retrospect. Apparently at three years old I told my mom "I'm a butterfly and I'm going to be a girl". She never told me that, I found out after she died last year, looking through her old notes. She assumed I meant reincarnation. Ironic considering I have adopted a butterfly metaphor to express my transition to a woman.
Anyway, yes, an eight year old can absolutely tell adults they are a different gender than they were assigned at birth. Whether they literally say "I'm trans" is kinda beside the point.
Thank you for explaining things without jumping down my neck right off the bat; it's very appreciated (and hard to come by nowadays).
I guess because I personally never thought of those things as a kid that I can't picture an 8, (or 4) year old, that would worry (or even think) about that issue at such a young age.
It's why people argue too much over religion, and personal experiences; just because it didn't happen to you, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Oh hey, I have also met many cisgender folks like yourself. And yes, you have literally no reason to think about gender, because it aligns with your body, your hormones, and your life experience. It "just fits". If you can imagine, that sensation is exactly how it feels for me to be transitioning now -- a welcome change from despair :)
That's great to hear; I'm glad you finally feel like you belong in your own body and can live a happier life :)
Thanks for the candid response. I appreciate the honest discussion.
I think the mistake parents might make is take this super seriously and start hovering on the issue (either validating or opposing), instead of letting the children grow naturally.
Well, it doesn't take long before a child needs to use a multi-occupant bathroom... so which do you suggest the child in the story to use? Or they participate in some other gender-segregated activity, like sports. A choice has to be made.
Little Bobby says he is a boy, but the school won't let him in the boy's bathroom. Little Alice says she's a girl, but she isn't allowed to join the girl's soccer team.
You see it's not really possible to grow naturally when half of US states try to dictate which bathroom a child uses based on psuedoscience and definitions that erase gender completely.
But yes, of course, unrelated to the story there are many mistakes a parent could make. Honestly though if I have a child, and the state decides to bully my child for political-religious agendas, yeah that's a hill I'm going to die on
This reads as transphobic, but I'm going to leave it up for two reasons:
I'm not trans myself, but my son is, and he explains how he felt something like this...
Imagine you're a pretty average boy, and interested in stereotypical boy things. You like boy clothes, you want to hang out with your friends who are boys, you look forward to growing muscles and a mustache when you're old enough, etc.
Now imagine that at the same time, all your clothes are girl clothes, your name is girly, and everyone around you thinks you're a girl.
That wouldn't match up, would it. It would feel incongruous and wrong.
If you're cisgender, you can absolutely prove you're a boy to everyone's satisfaction, and you're unlikely to get dressed in the wrong clothes or given a mismatched name in the first place. So you probably don't ever have to think about your gender and whether it's being expressed by your body incorrectly.
But for trans people, it's not uncommon for them to become acutely aware of gender when they're young in ways that their cisgender counterparts don't, precisely because of the mismatch.
That's how it was for my son. He didn't figure out he was trans until he was around thirteen, but he knew something wasn't right long before then.
How are children mature enough to realize they are trans?
Seems like children are too impressionable to be able to make decisions like that.
That's why children have parents and medical professionals to ultimately investigate and make important decisions for them
Yeah, because neither group has ever been manipulated into making the wrong decisions for other people.
You're right, we should instead trust the well-known-as-100%-infallible politicians to unilaterally make those decisions for us instead
Those are your words, not mine.
Well what are you proposing? In my mind we either trust parents to be able to ultimately make decisions like this for their children, or we don't and we make it illegal?
Every time I see someone bring up "why are we trusting kids to decide that they're trans", I remind them that they're not making decisions by themselves, they have parents and counselors/doctors/professionals making decisions for them, which either is not engaged with (most common response) or is met with "We can't trust parents and doctors either".
Frankly, if we can't broadly trust parents and childcare professionals to have their children's best interests in mind, we're already fucked, so we might as well do nothing and hopefully at least let the actual trans kids live their life in peace anyway.
Sounds like he was taking her daughter to the Democratic senator in support of him and the other senator happened to come by. Def not a cudgel
Nice choice of the word/idiom cudgel, since a cudgel is a small (child?) version of a weapon.
It's a good word, isn't it. I'm not saying the politician is in the right here, I just don't like parents using their children in this kind of way. I feel the same about child actors, really.
Are you 100% devoted to the mentality that she's being used or is there evidence you'd accept to demonstrate she wants and deserves to be involved? I'm personally on the fence given limited information, but I lean toward trusting and respecting the parents, as I had political opinions that went against my parents at that age and had no one to help advocate for me.
No, I'm not really that devoted to anything.
The kid's future is at stake with the legislation these GOP phonies are constantly pushing to exclude and shame her. I don't think it's at all unreasonable to loop her into the process of protesting and fighting back at a young age.
What's disgusting is when politicians use children in the abstract as fuel for their own campaigns, as the entire GOP is doing all the time. They prey on the ignorance of their base, and use anonymous people who can't defend themselves as cudgels; that's very different from what this parent is doing.
Didn't read the article but I agree. A kid thst age shouldn't have a defined gender or sexuality.
My niece seemed to be lesbian for some years, and we were ok with it. She recently said she actually likes boys.
Nobody pushed her to do anything or say anything, or represent any political group or social cause. She chose by herself 100% of the time. Nobody guided her or said anything to her. Her mother just listened and said "whatever makes you happy".
I can't believe this woman is involving her child in politics like this.
The difference here is that children often lack a concept of sexuality, because they don't feel sexual attraction yet. That liking someone or being attracted to someone is two different things, is something children usually learn in puberty.
But children very well understand, the social constructs we create for boys and girls, and can express whether they feel that fitting them or not.
Finally you said:
This is exactly what the issue is about. Let the children use the bathroom they feel most comfortable with and not impose a gender and sexuality on them.
Whether or not you fit the social construct doesn't determine whether you're male or female. You're putting the cart so far in front of the horse it's about to lap it.
But the bathrooms are not "male bathrooms" and "female bathrooms". They're "Men's" and "Women's" washrooms. Which are determined by the social construct.
Toilet Wars
Those "politics" this woman is "involving her child" in are actively seeking to harm her child. The child is fully involved already even if she was left at home, because the GOP can't keep themselves out of children's pants.
Just because you're using the same word (involve) it doesn't mean it has the same semantics.
She is exposing and labeling her children herself. She's probably telling her kids what to feel and what they are. At that age a kid isn't like "Mother I have become transexual, we need to fight the Republicans, bring me to the nearest politician".
Don't get your kid involved in politics, don't tell your kids they are transgender, don't you dare giving them surgery for their gender....... let them grow and figure it out themselves. Just be supportive and loving. You can fight for them, but don't get them involved in something that isn't necessarily permanent to them.
That's a lot of assumptions you've just made about this random mother and child you know nothing about.
It's a kid. Do you think a kid knows what transexual means without an adult telling them? Or what a politician or laws mean? Or that the politician was going to be there? Did the kid tell the mother what to say?
Please explain to me how this could have happened, a likely scenario, in which the mother didn't push this on the child.
You wouldn't know what transexual means if you hadn't been told or read or heard about it somewhere. That is as true of adults as it is of children. What you seem to be implying is that a child could not possibly understand the concept, and that is where we clearly disagree.
You don't give children enough credit. Children are capable of understanding how they are different from others, even if they don't have the words to describe it. They can understand that there are people with authority who make the rules, even if they don't know the details. They are able to recognize when things are unfair and feel indignant about it, even if they're unsure of why or how.
The mother can give her child the words to describe how they feel, the details of the world we live in, explain the whys and hows of it, and the child is capable of comparing that to what they know and thinking for themselves. Children are impressionable because of their lack of prior knowledge with which to make that comparison, but that does not mean they lack agency.
It is certainly possible that this mother manipulated her child, put words in her mouth, shielded her from information that could provide a basis for comparison, but that is an assumption for which you have no evidence except that you can't imagine the alternative.
The alternative being that this mother raised her child lovingly, taught them all they could, trusted them with information from other sources, trusted them to make their own judgements with their guidance, and supported them when they came to their own conclusions.
So, the kid read the newspaper and asked to go there?
Kids know what they are.
I'm glad you feel comfortable with agreeing with no information. That shows real courage that does.
An anecdote of any specific individual is really not particularly helpful. Some kids very solidly identify and some do not. Externally it's sometimes ambiguous but also sometimes it can be incredibly obvious you aren't dealing with just a temporary exploration.
A lot of trans parents of those who are very solidly trans generally have their proof in certain ways. If trying a different gender presentation suddenly stops a child from being painfully shy, fidgeting and having emotion regulation problems... Often that's your clue that it's a need not a want.
I can also understand the parent's desire to put a human face on the issue. Very often trans issues are talked about in the abstract or treated like a political token to be traded. The human cost is hidden from veiw. It can be overall a very dehumanizing experience. I have reached out to transphobes who just never met one of us before and while some of them have settled on a very misguided "Well you're just one of the good ones... Not the bad evil slutty bad ones" you can tell that at least there's at least a crack in their armor through which the idea of human empathy can reach.
But it is helpful, as sometimes the pressure on someone who has "come out" is immense the other way. That if they back away from the controversial identity they declared, then they rose a fuss over nothing. It should be emphasized that people can be flexible with core pieces of their identity. Also, in my opinion, that they don't need to pick just one or the other because of some select preferences they have that are incongruous with one choice or the other.
It's definitely a case inside the trans community that we recognize there is a lot of external pressure from the general atmosphere of doubt regarding trans peoples convictions that incentivizes people to stick to their guns.
But that pressure ultimately doesn't come from inside, that is a force exerted from outside. "Being bad for the movement" internal policing is a fear reaction born out of being under someone else's heel and trying to do what you can to stop the boot coming down. Cis hegemony is lining up to use the case of detransitioners to limit everyone else's medical and social options. Yes, there are some not particularly great trans people who look at detransitioners as essentially a threat to us all... but the general concensus of the community is that if our ethics become shit because outsider pressure destroys our culture by forcing us to eat our own then we have already failed.
The end goal inside the trans community of folks is always comfort and happiness even if that means someone walks back out the door having come to the conclusion they aren't trans. If we have a goal it is in part we want to lower the social cost of experimentation so that identity can be freely explored regardless of what identity you find. There isn't a lot of harm in taking a year to understand yourself a bit better. Ideally there shouldn't be any harm in taking a gender rumspringa and figuring out if maybe you're a little bit non-binary or something. That is real freedom. It's all the bloody idiots who don't get the basics who make it about there being massive stakes and a bullet dodged because they only think in terms of medical transition.
To our eyes it's everybody else who wants to make doing that somehow "political". It can't just be about what makes us feel like we're actually living at 100 percent because we have to fight tooth and nail just to exist.
Yeha, but how do you know if it is something permanent or not for the kid? You don't know, at that age they are fluid in these regards. So why frame them as "transexual" if they like having long hair or play with "girly" toys.
When I was a kid I thought I was a girl, I would always refer to myself with femenine terminology until I was like 7. If my parents pushed the idea of being transexual instead of letting me figure out that I was actually a boy who likes girls, I'd probably be very fucked up today.
I'm really against telling a kid what they are or allowing them to change their bodies permanently. Once they turn 18, they'll be able to make these choices with a better understanding and perspective. A 10yo kid doesn't know shit, they barely understand the world (in general), that's why they can't make choices like having sex with adults, getting pregnant, having tattoos, consuming drugs or alcohol, gambling... the list goes on. They aren't mentally prepared for these decisions.
I understand that it is important to preach love to others, but don't solidify these ideas in your kids just to make a political point. They may feel later that they can't change because they became the face of this issue.
Don't tell a kid what they are, just tell them they can be whatever they want to be, but permanent choices only at 18, once they have more perspective and understanding. That's it.
First off nomenclature "Trans sexual" is pretty outdated terminology that no longer is used in the DSM for kind of good reasons.
Also generally speaking gender presentation is independent of actual gender. It's a common mistake made but what toys kids play with and how they like to dress has very little to do with identity and is only at best tangentially related. The idea that "Little Timmy likes Barbies get him to a gender clinic" is going to actually render anything other than a "some kids like Barbies" response is just anti trans hysteria.
Gender questioning is a known phase of development that may or may not stick particularly at a young age like seven. Heck gender questioning is something anyone can go through at any point in one's life and you may come out of it realizing that nope, you are actually cis. Inside the trans community we advocate for adults a good experimental phase by degrees and not to look at medical transition as the first potential solution until you feel solid in knowing yourself better.
For a kid a regular questioning period is around a few months to a year long. If they basically are consistent by the end of that year the evidence is that there's roughly a 95% chance that will be consistent over the next 5 years... With a little wobbling between binary and non-binary trans identities to be accounted forhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9936352/#:~:text=Five%20years%20after%20an%20initial,back%20to%20binary%20trans%20identities. With trans people in general there's usually something seemingly unrelated that gets fixed by a successful social transition. Anxiety and depression can sometimes have physical symptoms. In trans accepting environments Social transition can target the root causes of stress so usually you can physically recognize the difference in someone suddenly flourishing...
Also 10 year olds do not make permanent body changes. If you are taking puberty blockers at age 10 the chances are better that you are doing so because you are experiencing precocious puberty. In Canada where I am treatment options for trans kids are limited to blockers so they can basically watch the kid. If you have a child who has a consistent identity over a span of years then they might recommend horomone treatments at age 16 to go through a puberty. This is done only with parental consent but requires a team including a social worker, psychiatrist/psychologist and endocrinologist and a pediatrician who basically have monitored the kid for several years. The first surgeries aren't available until legal adulthood at 18. There are no "children of 10 making unilateral decisions to change their bodies"- its a child of 16 and a panel of about 6 adults (assuming two legal guardians) doing a risk assessment and long term life planning that can be vetoed by any participant at any time.
Even when the door is open for medical help for trans kids it's still stacked against trans kids transitioning. Kids in the system have to stick to their guns against a lot of forces that look at them as a legal risk for suing the system for any permanent damages. It's less risky for institutions generally to just not intervene in natural puberty so they set a very high burden of proof to be absolutely sure beyond all reasonable shadow of a doubt that the kid is gunna be fine. If you hear anyone talking about it being as easy as just scheduling an appointment quite frankly they are full of shit.
For me the problem is that parents can sabotage their questioning period by steering them. Just let them be. For me, this mother taking her kids to something political like this is steering and not letting the kid figure things out themselves.
I mean... Is it though? The kid and others like her regardless of how she might identify in the future is going to be impacted from kindergarten onwards by the laws being voted on. She may have just been there to speak with someone representing her and her parents fight with words of encouragement. It sounds from the article like Republican representive just approached these two just sort of assuming she was a cis kid being brought in as part of the "parental rights" crowd and he initiated the encounter blindly not finding the presense of a cis child in chambers particularly unusual.
I actually tend to see a lot of youngsters given anti trans signs to shake that they are probably too young to understand and probably enforce a lot more restrictions on how free that child feels to be themselves than any politically active trans parent fighting to not have to pick up their lives and retreat like a refugee to a non-hostile state where they have to build their support networks again from scratch.
There are very real stakes in this fight for families.
Stakes are real, but still, don't use children for politics.
People understand what a kid is without having to expose them to the world as trans at such a young age.
Did they really change this politician's mind?
If you didn't read the article your comment is worthless and contributes nothing.
I didn't have to read the article to see that this mother told her kids what to do and how to feel.
And that's why your opinion is merit less.
So her kids read the news and said "mother, we need to act, take me there so we can teach this politician a lesson"?
i mean, it's cool that your family supported your niece by giving her time and avoiding assumptions, but that doesn't mean that children never have a sense of their gender or preferences, never have political opinions, or aren't affected by politics.
look at Greta Thunberg.
if your niece had wanted to advocate for herself in a political way, how do you imagine your family would have responded? would you have been supportive?
If she has the initiative, sure. In this case it was the mother who chose to take her kids there to say to everyone "Hey look, my kids are Trans, look at them".
Just let them grow and label themselves. At that age these things are not written in stone.
fair enough. i appreciate your response! i think i had misunderstood your meaning.
Using your 8 year old in any argument is awful, but here it is also stupid. The mother realizes that the child might still change her mind on this, right? Like it is not a for life decision she made at 8 years old.
Doing what the mother is doing and making her into an activist might back her into a corner of being a girl if she might not want to in the future.
How tf. is it making a child into an activist?
"You have an issue you feel uncomfortable about, and feel your safety is threatened? let's talk with a democratic representative, so they better understand you." Is not "activism". It is normal political process in a democracy and it should be endorsed, especially for children. They have rights too and they have opinions too and since they cannot voice their opinion in elections it is all the more important that they can be heard by politicians. And there the bar is also different. A child cannot be expected to form a conscise political argument, leave alone lobby for it, what would be activism. But children have legitimate concerns that need to be heard nonetheless.
By this definition raising any issue with any politician is "activism". Also who the fuck would deny a child to change its mind as it grows up?
Look at it differently.
Your child is trans.
Two competing politicians have differing policies. One is against trans people, one supports trans people. Which politician would you be inclined to support?
Would you discuss these issues with your child? If so, would you bring your child to meet the politician who is "fighting for her"?
8 year olds have an IQ around 20. There's zero chance an 8 year old comprehends being trans. The mother is a narcissist.
That's not how IQ works
Have you actually met trans people? Have you talked to them about their childhoods?
Yes and yes.
Someone here has an IQ of 20, but it’s not that kid.
I don't know the full story of the kid's family, but some people already realise their sexuality at early age.
You do not need a high IQ to experience gender dysphoria. There are huge piles of evidence showing that children that young can, in fact, have a gender identity. Actually, significantly younger than 8. You are woefully ignorant of the fundamentals of the topic being discussed.
The lowest diagnosed IQ is 40.
Your statement is incorrect.
Saying that 8 year old has an IQ of 20 displays a misunderstanding of IQ and intelligence, but otherwise it's indeed very probable that the girl(?) is very confused.
I thought this article describes the still ongoing problem pretty well: https://www.npr.org/2008/05/07/90247842/two-families-grapple-with-sons-gender-preferences
The article was from 2008. Recent data shows that he was right on the money.
Recent data shows a sharp rise (at least double the amount since 2017) in children identifying as trans. But I believe it's still controversial as to why this happened.
Yep. I think it's fascinating how this can be a generational phenomenon when I believe the understanding is that you get your sexual and gender identities more or less at birth. I mean if the liberalization of attitudes is the reason why more people identify as LGBT, shouldn't that affect the older generations as well?
I think the truth and sort of a non-answer is that the brain is a very complicated organ and everything affects it.
I'm 40, I have know I'm trans my whole life. I have been to afraid to cone out and face that because of people with your false beliefs. I have struggled immensely in life for 35 years because I didn't feel it was safe to talk about or explore. I've decided it's finally time to take my life back.
You do not know what you are talking about, at all. Stop assuming you do, and start learning.
Please explain what in my comments in this thread is a false belief that would make you be afraid to come out.
I suggest you stop assuming things about people you don't know as well. It only generates ill will and really nothing positive. Besides upvotes in this place, I guess.
That "previous understanding" is still correct, despite new desires to feel special.
Sexual orientation is defined up to the first two months after birth, and homosexual population in humans is around 5-10%.
The same reason there was data showing more people identifying as left-handed once it stopped being taboo and "something to get corrected".
But I guess left-handed people brainwashed our youth as well.
Yes, I know that that is one of the possible explanations of this controversy. But just because you have one explanation, and you think strongly that it's the correct one, doesn't mean it's not controversial.
"But I guess you think" never ends up in a happy place.
Yeah, sorry, that's why I edited my original comment. Was very unfair of me to put words in your mouth (or I guess "fingers" in this case).
Most likely just a gut reaction from all the people I see trying to argue a variation on the "we didn't have so many trans people before this, so something must be turning people trans" idea. Since most people just argue in bad faith, and are not actually looking for an answer.
(Actually I edited 3 times because of grammar, my brain was just not cooperating when it comes to typing).