Voting is changing the Oil to keep the engine running
While Education and Organizing is building the parts for a new engine the rest of the year.
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Comments510View original on lemmy.ml
While Education and Organizing is building the parts for a new engine the rest of the year.
Reminder that someone online arguing that you shouldn't vote for Biden because of whatever pet grievance is either a Russian agent or an idiot playing into their hands
If people think an "evangelical" is going to handle the conflict in Gaza on the side of the Palestinians better than Joe Brandon they are sorely mistaken and/or misguided. 45 wanted a straight up Muslim ban ffs.
Yeah, I'd rather deal with someone who enables Israel's bad behavior instead of someone who not only cheers it on but offers to help make it worse. There's at least a snowball's chance of convincing the enabler to stop enabling.
Evangelicals want this conflict, because in order for Jesus to come back and rapture them, the mosque on the Temple Mount must be destroyed so the temple can be rebuilt, which is step one of their prophecy. That’s the real reason they pretend to care about the Jews.
They truly believe this is their end times, and worse, a few years ago their perfect red cow they’ve been waiting for these thousands of years was certified; if that cow dies before they get the chance to sacrifice it to rebuild their temple, they may have to wait another thousand years.
It’s a death cult and they’ll kill us all.
And how quick all these Hamas and Houthi cheerleaders forgot Ukraine too. A country that would not exist anymore if Trump had won 2020.
"Forgot"?
No, they think Ukraine is a fake Nazi state run by a Jewish drug addict puppeted by the globalhomo Western imperialists.
In other words, insanity.
And soon those farms are going to be powered by ChatGPT. When you hear that Russian line it's going to have ten replies all agreeing and giving supporting arguments.
I wonder if we'll be able to spot hallucinations in such a simple task.
bots congratulating each other on right thoughts.
Reminder that not everyone who disagrees with your guilt tripping self righteous nonsense is a Russian bot. Some of us actually use critical thinking and can see a pattern that must be broken.
I've been called a Trumper/Russian bot/Chinese bot since 2016 (on Reddit, same username) because I'm critical of ALL politicians. I got banned from /r/politics for listing reasons why Hillary would lose and what she needed to change in order to beat Trump. Welp...
Did you think people in the Hilary campaign would be trawling through r/politics, looking for your comment and changing their platform to what you wanted?
Or were you just encouraging voters not to participate in the election?
Correct The Record, David Brock...
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-clinton-digital-trolling-20160506-snap-htmlstory.html
look, I can understand the argument that you must vote for the most effective way to contain an evil. It's a good solid argument.
However it starts taking damage almost immediately when:
The plan to fight the evil is using the most disliked president in recent history to win a popularity contest.
They pre-emptively destroy any and all opportunities to find a better candidate to win the popularity contest against the evil.
They refuse to debate anybody just like the evil they want to defeat. Making it impossible to verify they're the one for the job.
They forcibly re-schedule the primary schedule to delay any signs that this plan might be a terrible idea.
Their age is seriously in question, their mental acuity is in question, and they also decide to dodge being in a completely unscripted environment for two hours while standing.
Certainly with all this you can at least understand why someone would rather vote third party, because this Biden option is not making me feel any safer.
At what point can we stop pointing the finger at the voters and start pointing at the guy they're "supposed to vote for"? Is there a point we can ever point that finger at Biden? Or is it like Trump,where we need to vote for him "even if he were to shoot someone in the street"?
It works better when you have an idea of what the President actually does and what direct action would mean.
Almost everything we would want to do is at the local or regional level. Want higher density housing? Your mayor and city council control that with no say from the President. Better public transportation? Same, though the President can try convincing Congress to pass grant funding for it. More and better bike lanes? Same thing. Get rid of anti-homeless architecture? All city level stuff.
School lunch programs? State government can stop it if the wrong people are there. Expand Medicare? Same. Better rail networks? Same. Ban gay conversion therapy? All state government.
Foreign policy is the one thing where the President does have a lot of control. That's actually the exception. I like Biden's approach on Ukraine--getting most of Europe to go along with sanctions at all, especially after Trump destroyed our soft diplomatic power, was amazing. His approach on the Gaza conflict is far less amazing, to put it mildly. Other than foreign policy, the position is mostly advocacy and horse trading around funding priorities with Congress. Soft power for the most part.
A bad President, especially combined with a bad Congress, sure as hell can stop the local agenda items, though. Pull the grants for cities to implement public transit. Pull Medicare expansion entirely. Don't provide school lunch program funding at all. Put judges in power who rule arbitrarily in favor of conservatives with no care for precedent.
What voting for Biden is for is to make sure the federal government doesn't overrule things built locally and regionally. That's it. The rest needs direct action on the part of all of us at different levels of government.
finally somebody gets it dude hoo lee I feel like I've been wearing the nightmare vision goggles and taking the crazy pills or something
Point fingers all you want as long as you vote to keep the rapist, insurrectionist, self-admitted wannabe dictator out of power.
Yeah Biden is only the first one so 1-3 = 2 so he's good candidate
Yeah? Like our devotion to repeatedly voting in neolibs like Carter, Clinton, Obama, and Biden has had nothing to do with tilting the political spectrum to the far right?
I’ll probably pull the lever for Biden, but I don’t blame anyone who doesn’t. Based on the results of recent decades of leftists holding their noses to vote for the neolib, even if Biden wins something much worse than Trump will arrive just in time for the 2028 cycle.
What if I think people should still vote but they should be ready to be unhappy with the outcome either way and that it won't actually provide meaningful change?
I will be very different levels of unhappy with a too moderate democrat than a wannabe dictator.
So long as we have "too moderate democrats", the wannabe dictators are gonna look great for actually believing in something. Fuck Biden for appeasing and therefore empowering the right, shifting goalposts back decades- I hope he suffers excruiating back pain today and forever if not ruinous guilt. He makes the democrats look SO bad. Especially on a international scale.
Is abortion being nationally illegal "meaningful change"? Explain how that's not meaningful for us stupid people.
Under Biden it is still illegal put someone better in
Sorry, I should have been more specific. Meaningful positive change. Our government is great at fucking shit up.
Ah i see, so positive change is worth pushing for, but avoiding calamity isn't and you through throw away your vote instead. Insightful political philosophy.
Did you miss the part where I said people should still vote? They should just drastically lower their expectations.
I literally said this:
[patriotic music swells]
Then I'd understand and mourn your cynicism, but not think of you as a bad citizen.
Damn. I don't particularly like being a citizen of anywhere, let alone a good one.
Citizenship is responsibility - participation in the civic life of a polity. That's what being a citizen, and not simply a subject, means - to have the right to a share in the direction of the polity. Like it or not, if you're active in exercising your influence to affect politics instead of abrogating that power to the elite, you're a good citizen of wherever you live.
There, there. It'll be alright...
Okay but what if I only vote as a joke?
In that case, you can be a bad citizen.
Good. I don't want people thinking I approve of nation-states or anything like that.
You don't have to if you live in a state that will vote overwhelmingly democrat. Maryland, California, New York, Massachusetts, Hawaii, and DC Biden won by over 20% margin I have wiggle room to vote 3rd party.
How many other people are thinking that same thing?
There is NO wiggle room this election. Not even in blue af California.
Save your principles for the local elections if you want future elections.
In Maryland there is like 33% wiggle room I am ok. If I was in Pennsylvania it would be a different story.
Hillary and Biden both beat Trump by huge numbers in Maryland I can vote for 3rd party no issues. People are just scared that people from Pennsylvania have the same idea which it would actually cause harm.
Haha every election is THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION EVER NO WIGGLE ROOM.
This election is equally important, or equally unimportant as any other election.
Bruh. Before 2022 I had bodily autonomy and Trans people could receive their medications with a semblance of reliability. Immigrants weren't being bussed around the country against their will.
We have gone way more right, way faster, than I think anyone could have foreseen.
If you're referring to the lack of roe v wade, that was the supreme court, not the president, and I'm not aware of any current justices planning to retiring in the next four years. It's now a states rights issue. Support the state level candidate who is inline with your views.
With few exceptions, "trans" adults can do whatever they want. Assuming they're an American citizen, they have the exact same rights as you and I.
You're right. They were piling up in border states and no one gave a shit until they started getting bussed around.
These issues are far more complicated than you would pretend.
Who do you think stacked the Courts in the favor of Republicans? And if you think Trump won't press it further by expanding the Courts and putting more Conservatives in, you're high. Additionally, if you don't think a Republican will push for a nationwide abortion ban, you're even more high.
Well, you're worse than high. You're likely a Russian troll.
Yep, I'm high, and a Russian troll. Ya got me :/
Fucking online fear mongering. Honestly, I wouldn't have it any other way. Feels like home.
Maryland:
Hillary beat Trump 60 - 33%
Biden beat Trump 65 - 33%
I would argue that the folks who voted 3rd party in 2016 decided we needed to do more than just not vote for Trump in 2020. The folks who voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020 are gonna vote for him again in 2024.
I’d say equally this year it is worthwhile to do more than just “not vote for Trump” but vote for Biden (especially if you intended to vote 3rd party … but by all means vote your conscience first!) to further cement the statement that we did not choose Trump.
The stats show he lost no ground, the issue will be how much ground Biden has lost because of the attacks about their age and pushing folks to vote 3rd party or whatever as an act of protest.
Vote your conscience first, but don’t protest by a third party vote. If you have no good option CHOOSE HARM REDUCTION ALWAYS
I say this as a Bernie 2016 / 2020 voter. It still hurts. I’m choosing to reduce the harm regardless.
Hillary and Biden both beat Trump by huge numbers in Maryland I can vote for 3rd party no issues. People are just scared that people from Pennsylvania have the same idea which it would actually cause harm.
You can vote for whoever you please and should.
Vote your conscience every time.
I’m simply arguing that it is a good idea to not rest on your laurels and when we are faced with what feels like a crazy threat to democracy maybe then its especially good to vote in your best interests instead.
Only you can choose what your best interests are, but anyone who argues that you SHOULD protest vote probably has an agenda which is likely to get you to not vote for Biden or Trump.
voting is not harm reduction.
I’d love for you to tell me how it isn’t.
https://www.indigenousaction.org/voting-is-not-harm-reduction-an-indigenous-perspective/
harm reduction is when you know a bad thing is going to happen, and you give the people it's happening to resources to mitigate the harm from it. needle exchanges are the best example: people are going to use drugs. that's bad enough with the stigma and risks of impurities etc. giving them clean needles eliminates one of the dangers, though.
voting doesn't give the effected people any resources to deal with the problems created by our government.
edit:
harm reduction would be sending medical supplies to gaza. setting up abortion care resources in the states. distributing HRT resources. voting is just that: voting.
It is harm reduction.
no, it's not. harm reduction is the things you do regardless of whether democrats or republicans win.
"Pet grievance" is one of my new favorite euphemisms for genocide.
Voting does nothing other than reform the capitalist regime. It doesn't matter whether this cycle's presidential figurehead is blue or red. Give it a few decades and you'll see how the US will still be sowing death and destruction across the world, as it always has. The presidential race that liberals get so rabid about is nothing more than kabuki theater.
Ah yes, the bearer of truth right here, fellas. So your plan is do nothing, but bitch about everything. Gotcha.
Read some Marx and you'll understand that political action doesn't start, and end, at the ballot box.
Marx? The guy that advocates for waiting until society collapses and then waiting for a better society to be built from its ashes?
Literally not what he says, though.
Yes Marx, the guy who made a system of government that totally works guys, it just hasn't been really truly tried yet ok
I already have toilet paper. Thanks though.
"progressive"
"thinks you should wipe your ass with the entire works of Karl Marx"
Pick a lane buddy
Lol way to show you know nothing about your own ideology, buddy.
Progressivism: Progressive liberalism is a response to marxism, (radical) socialism, and communism. It was a recognition that the problems marxists, (radical) socialists, and communists were bringing to the forefront were proper problems, but it contests that marxists, socialists, and communists have the correct solutions. For that matter, progressive liberalism is anti-marxist, anti-socialist, and anti-communist.
Progressive liberals hope to “save capitalism from itself” not abolish it unlike genuine marxists, socialists, and communists wish to do.
Sorry, what is my ideology?
Didn't she win the popular vote?
This is just shit libs blaming the left instead of taking responsibility for running a shit candidate with so much baggage that she lost while "winning"
If you want to be mad at anyone, blame the dnc.
Bernie would have whooped trump in 2016. Shame the dnc decided to change the rules the day of to avoid a split ticket or God forbid, supporting the actually viable candidate.
DNC/DCCC isn't exactly in the business of winning elections. If it comes between winning an election and BAU (they'd rather have a republican they can 'work' with), they pick BAU. They'll happily (and have) fund Republicans over Progressives.
Sanders, God love him, was not going to be electable. Had they run him, Trump would have picked up the whole of the big fat moderate lump in the middle of the bell curve.
Exactly like Boris Johnson did when he ran against Jeremy Corbyn. The capitalists simply won't allow socialists to win in this environment.
This is simply false, and the same consistent misunderstanding of real politic that keeps the DNC on the struggle bus.
By the same logic Trump would not have been considered viable. See how that played out.
Literally every single poll says otherwise. We'll never know for certain, but there's much more evidence to support a Sanders victory than a Sanders loss, and claiming that Trump would have picked up enough moderates to win is baseless speculation.
Lol, no.
Bernie is the Ron Paul of the left; he has a small group of very loud supporters online who by constantly shouting at each other on the internet have convinced themselves that he's actually some sort of populist god. I mean seriously, he couldn't even win the popular vote in the Democratic Primary in 2016, losing to Hillery by over three million votes, where were all the extra voters to "whoop" Trump supposed to come from?
Leaked Emails Suggest DNC Was Conspiring Against Bernie Sanders
"Pro-Trump Russian asset Wikileaks reveals that DNC said mean things about our Lord and Savior Bernie Sanders"
Seriously, have you actually looked at the Wikileak emails rather than the hype? It's the weakest shit imaginable.
You sound like someone who thinks Russiagate and rachel maddow were legit. WikiLeaks used to be trumpeted by liberals as a bastion of truth untill Assange came out with the corrupt dnc stuff. Which you can still all read, yes they conspired with Hillary. MSNBC and CNN gave her easy questions while grilling Bernie. "Weakest shit indeed".
If the establishment doesn't like the candidate they won't get airtime. Same shit with Dean Philips and Marianne Williamson. The Biden team places some phone calls and bam your campaign is dead and no airtime/coverage. Are they viable candidates, who knows?
Should they at least get airtime and be heard in a democratic process?? Yes.....
Yeah, you might want to scroll down to "Secret correspondence between WikiLeaks and Donald Trump Jr." on the Wikipedia article.
I swear to God if any fucking idiot is here to relitigate the 2016 election they can suck a fucking egg. It was toxic then and it is toxic now. Please do us all a favor and go the way of the_donald and drop off the face of the earth.
wikileaks is not pro trump. wikileaks is not a russian asset
The emails were never even denied, and they are damning as hell. That is precisely why the entire response, to this day, has been to ignore what was revealed and go after the people who revealed it. Yes, it was shit people revealing shit about other shit people.
dont underestimate how much people hate women
I mean, I will always be mad at the DNC for not running Sanders.
Doesn't mean I'm not gonna vote Biden in Nov 2024 though.
Then you aren't mad at the DNC you support their decision to keep the status quo in check
Bruh I participated in the 2020 Nevada caucuses when I lived there, and I stood for Bernie (which he won btw, Biden took second). Idk what else you want me to do when he didn't make the final cut.
I will always vote for the Dem in the General, and do my best to make changes in the primary/local elections where I vote Progressive.
Otherwise, you risk a Republican winning the General, and that will mean FURTHER devastation for American society at a quicker pace.
Make no mistake - that's what these people want.
Bernie himself is stanning for the Democrats after they screwed him over. He even still refuses to call the genocide in Gaza a genocide. He didn't even call for a ceasefire for a long time. Many Bernie staffers are very disappointed with him that's a lot closer than you shaking his hand
Bernie is not the second coming of jesus. He bent the knee. Just passing motions like a human rights report is the most weak sauce left wing thing America has left.
So we're gonna act like winning the popular vote and losing isn't a problem in and of itself?
Of course it's a problem. But people point to this and say "the system's broken [of course it is], so why vote!" Which is what the most fascist, anti-freedom politicians want. Functionality, it's the same as voting for the 'R' in every election.
Systems fucked, but I always vote. Getting blamed while supporting a candidate I despise certainly is icing on the shit cake
Right?
Apoligists. Apologists all the way down.
1000x over this.
Neat. I'm over being chastised while voting for a piece of shit that was "the lesser evil"
Don't you see the contradiction in "she won the popular vote" and "she was a shit candidate"?
It's kinda like the contradiction that Bernie could win the general election, but 12% of his voters defecting to Trump wasn't enough to make a difference.
Leftists are going to be shouting "the DNC is corrupt" on the gallows after Trump wins.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanders%E2%80%93Trump_voters
No, because the popular vote isn't how US elections are won. She needed to appeal to the people in the 5 or so states that actually matter and failed to do so.
"Leftists are going to be shouting “the DNC is corrupt” on the gallows after Trump wins."
This is the stupid shit is see all over lemmy that makes me so mad.... Yes the DNC SUCKS but guess what? They're the status quo right now, and the alternative is literally a fucking dictatorship that has vindictive actions as their highest priority.
There aren't even dog whistles anymore, he's using the word dictator... But yeah BomberBiden... Mr.Genocide... I get it... So that means let Trump win? Seriously?
Yeah, and I'll still likely vote for Mr genocide all while being blamed for his loss. So why's it matter?
Both of these things can be true. If "did not vote" had been a candidate in 2016, it would have won in a landslide. Just 8 states + DC had enough voters turn out such that any candidate won more votes than there were eligible voters that didn't bother. As a percentage of eligible voters, Clinton received 28.43% of eligible voters, with Trump trailing at 27.2% of eligible voters. While Trump outperformed Romney (2012) by 2M votes, Clinton underperformed Obama in 2012.
As a percentage of the entire US population (including those too young or other ineligible to vote) Clinton got votes from 20.30% of the population and Trump got votes from 19.41% of people.
They both sucked so badly that just over a quarter of eligible voters/less than a fifth of everybody was all it took to elect Trump
(source https://brilliantmaps.com/did-not-vote/)
No that just shows she was more popular out of the 2 shit choices
TF do you think our vote was? I can't vote any harder or some shit.
The hilarious bit was all the shit libs backing comey during russiagate. It's literally his fault she lost.
Yeah but in their eyes it couldn't be anything wrong with her as it was her turn so couldn't have been his handling of anything
Or blame both.
There’s more than one way to solve most problems, and more than one cause as well. Would a stronger candidate have succeeded? Perhaps. But that was a solution for earlier in the process. A solution for late in the process was voters turning up.
We literally had that candidate and he got fucked over by super deligates or some nonsense.
I'm sick of being blamed when I voted for someone as vile as hrc. Dems lost the vote, not me.
Maybe if hrc actually showed up to purple states and appealed to actual voters it would have went differently.
I don't want to be mad, I want to change things and improve people's lives. So I vote for the lesser of 2 evils until we can abolish this "first past the post" nonsense.
This
But people did vote for Hillary, IIRC, she won the popular vote by like 3 million votes.
So it wasnt a lack of voting that gave trump the presidency and repealed abortion rights. It was the mecanisms and institutions that are part of your electoral process and that only seem to exist in order to dilute your democracy (e. voting districts, electoral college) that gave trump the win.
Perhaps people would be more willing to vote if their voices were actually heard.
NaPoVo InterCo FTW
Hexagons are bestagons
Okay this one went over my head. What's happening here?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact
Thanks lol
Kinda irrelevant but frustrating that someone down voted you for being genuinely curious about something that could have a huge impact on the future of our country -_-
Seems like Lemmy has a lot in common with Reddit
Similarly, if the DNC hadn't absolutely SCREWED my boy Bernie, we also wouldn't be in this complete shit-hole.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/14/16640082/donna-brazile-warren-bernie-sanders-democratic-primary-rigged
A socialist will never be elected. When anyone gets close, the entire capitalist world immediately forget their differences and unite to make sure it doesn’t happen.
Happened to Sanders.
If you want read a more heinous example, it’s Jeremy Corbyn. A genuinely good man .
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/23/unprecedented-leak-exposes-inner-workings-of-uk-labour-party
Demsocs (really, socdems) still believe in capitalism. They're not quite Debs levels of socialist.
It's probably more accurate to state that they believe capitalism and markets to be two separate things, for example a market economy where every business is a multi-stakeholder worker-consumer coop and workers and "consumers" alike can consent to what happens at work, would be at odds with private ownership given that everyone is an owner with decision making power (collective/socialized ownership). This is pretty much what Corbyn and the Labour party a few years back were aiming for - they were going to experiment with cooperatives by having the government encourage and fund them.
Yeah, the Richard wolf revolution. Would be nice.
Not yet
Christ, they've been calling every democrat a socialist for 20 years now and it's chased half of the democrats rightward so far that it's a problem for a lot of democrats to keep voting for that
Uhhhh no. He didn't pull any votes because he wasn't even on the ticket during the general election and he endorsed Hillary. Also, considering how unpopular Hillary was she should have picked Bernie as her VP. Picking anti union, milked toste Tim Kain was a joke.
What kind of pretzel knot do you have to tie your brain into to think that?
If Hilary hadn't been a pile of shit doing private speaking engagements for billionaires that were so hush hush that they set up massive white noise generating speaker systems, people would have voted for her.
if Hilary had set a fucking foot in some of the states she lost, people would have voted for her.
if Hilary didnt make stupid fucking comments, people would have voted for her.
Maybe if you stopped blaming voters, and blamed the shitty fucking candidates, someone less awful would have run, and won.
You've got to at least try to appeal your base. And no, "vote for me or you'll get the other guy" is not an inspiring rally cry. It didn't work in 2016 and the fact that the message seems to be similar in 2024 has me really worried.
I voted for the greater good in 2016 - in the Democratic primaries.
I voted for the lesser evil in the general election, then took a long hot shower.
Things would have certainly worked out better with a Hillary victory instead of the Trumpster fire we got.
This does not excuse the horseshit shenanigans that were going on within the DNC.
Our "lesser evil" option keeps moving further and further to the right each cycle.
Because America isnt voting for change. They're just moving towards fascism, either slow or fast.
If you tell anyone to change course and vote third party they get really mad at you here on Lemmy.
Hence educating and organizing the other 364 days of the year.
I think a better strategy is to run for office rather than vote. Because voting doesn't do much if the available candidates are turncoats or shills. It should be educate, organize, and run. Otherwise we get more Scinemas running for raising minimum wage and not at all voting for it when it counts most.
Ah a slogan. Truly helpful.
Slogans are helpful yes.
Thoughts and prayers to you then.
More of an action and policy removed
I'd say the people who voted third party are the ones who fucked around in 2016, and ALL of us found out because of it.
Dictatorship it is then. 3rd parties don't stand a snowballs chance in hell right now.
Canvassing and outreach happen first, then you can vote for that party. Right now you're literally handing Republicans the win if you vote 3rd party this election.
Which is a problem that needs to be addressed.
This voting the lesser of two evils won't stop the republicans from getting further to the right, and the democrats to do the same to try and capture more moderate right wing votes.
How many elections will be "don't vote 3rd party vote us or else the other guys will win"? How many problems will be addressed that way? How bad are you going to let these systemic issues plague the US before realizing that "hey maybe this is damaging our democracy and leading down a path towards autocracy"?
Cause the main way for autocrats to rule is for people to stop engaging in politics as they don't feel represented, and that's something you're seeing happening in the US due, also, to a lack of 3rd parties. This creates apathy which autocrats thrive on. And you'll be whining about people not voting your lesser evil all the way to fascism because you were too shortsighted in winning X election to see the issue at large.
Because of you and other useful idiots spreading RNC/DNC propaganda.
Duverger's law is RNC/DNC propaganda?
No. Duverger's law describes the outcome of you accepting and spreading DNC/RNC propaganda
On today's episode of "leftists are simultaneously both stupid babies who exist solely for us to mock AND single handedly responsible for every Republican win."
If democrats ran Bernie who won the primary, instead of telling him to eat a dick then going to court to tell their voters to eat a dick - THEN all those things in op.
2016 we watched that, in 2024 we're watching Biden sidestep congress to fund genocide. Democrats aren't any less fascist, they just put a little rainbow pin on their cap and you call them the good guys.
Yeah! Sending minorities to concentration camps will really show those Dems!
Leftists did vote for Hillary in 2016.
What a bad take. If regular normie DEMOCRATS had voted for her, she'd have won. She failed on so many levels.
Edit: or if she hadn't rigged the primary, we would have had Bernie, and abortion would also have been legal. Reforming the DNC is harm reduction.
Copying and pasting my own comment from another thread:
If you want leftists to vote for dems, despite dems pissing on leftists at every possible chance and yelling at leftists to fall in line, I'll show you how.
Point out that voting will never, ever, ever move the democrat party to the left. You cannot vote the party harder to the left.
Point out that Republicans are going to remain fascists.
Point out that voting third party is a spoiler vote and will result in fascists winning.
Point out that the actual way to move to the left is to unionize and organize at the grassroots level, to apply bottom-up pressure on the top.
The answer is not to pretend that Biden is anything other than a Neoliberal Capitalist. Leftists will correctly point out that Biden is still a lukewarm neoliberal maintaining the status quo, and feel further alienated by being told they should love him anyways. That just encourages voter apathy.
Additionally, this meme is wrong. Leftists voted, it was the centrists and moderates that didn't. Hillary wasn't appealing in any way, so only the people who really cared voted. Hillary still won the popular vote, she just lost the electoral college, and Trump succeeded in riling up the fascist base. Do not blame Leftists for not falling in line for an extremely unlikable candidate, they did regardless. Blame Hillary for doing jack-shit to energize the base.
More like of rbg hadn't been so stubborn and had actually stepped down when Obama was in office, we wouldn't have a republican majority on the supreme Court.
Because neoliberalism and republicanism are both terrible, and because the DNC is crooked as fuck
Yeah, she totally should've stepped down so Obama could appoint... checks notes... Merrick Garland. Oh fuck, never mind I see her point
Did anyone ever pay attention to most of the people Obama appointed to his cabinet? They were like hand-picked by Wall Street lobbyists.
Yeah and Hillary would've been better? What about Amy Coney Barrett?
Obviously not. Wtf? You think someone who criticizes Obama for being a weak politician would support Clinton, a much tougher politician even more committed to neoliberalism? I see no reason to think she wouldn't have wanted to appoint someone like Garland as well.
Well I mean that is literally the point of the meme we are all commenting under right now, so yes that is what I thought you were saying....
Didn't the Republicans stonewall approving a supreme Court justice for 18 months so that their guy, Trump, could appoint one. Then when rgb died they just ignored everything they did and said because they were in charge.
No.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/25/us/politics/rbg-retirement-obama.html
Soon of a bitch, that could have kept is at a 5-4 conservative court.
You aint wrong
If Obama had fought for his seat, Roe would still be the law. Dems never ever fight. They cry about how they can't do anything. Even when they have the house, senate, and white house, they couldn't do anything. Watch the excuses that follow this comment.
Neither capitalist party will ever help because they're both avowed capitalists.
Vote dem, move right slowly. Vote GOP move right fast AF, with added racism, hatred, and Christo-fascist oppression as well.
But ultimately, NO capitalist party will ever fix anything in this shit two party system. Both parties get all their campaign donations from the same billionaires., and companies.
It comes down to that the DNC/ DCCC and their voters are fundamentally not aligned in terms of incentives and priorities, and most discussant in places like this simply do not appreciate that. Whereas, the GOP and their voter base,are at least aligned, on their priorities and at least dubiously on incentives. This is demonstrated by their ability to provide for their voters once in office. You can and should hate what the priorities of the GOP are, however, you shouldn't deny that they deliver for their voters when it comes time to do so. They make their voters priorities a priority once elected, and work their asses off to get these shitty, inhumane policies into place.
The DNC/DCCC have historically treated their voters as an inconvenience, in a very technocratic, "we're the experts, we know better" fashion. Its a kind of anti-populism that was best expressed in the Hillary campaign, but also in how Obama ran his administration. To the DNC/DCCC, their voters are an inconvenience at best. Frankly, they'd probably prefer having a rightwing base, because they would better align with their actual prioritize. The result is that when elected, DCCC candidates don't work or fight for the things they campaigned on, because they truly don't think those things are priorities. This trickles down into a lack of results to their base, causing them to struggle because they consistently fail to deliver for the people that vote for them.
Edit because I wanted to highlight some things..
Observe the difference:
Hillary on the trail, 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN6iwqthZrU
Hillary takes the position of "knowing better", that the protesters need to basically sit down and shut up.
Bernie on the trail, 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjt56Tdhhqk
Bernie gives them the mic and the time to get their message across.
In my lifetime, a dem only ever once gave me something to vote FOR, and I actively campaigned for him-Obama. And the first thing he did was give up on universal care and then even on public option. But he's making millions by leveraging his presidency, so he's a good little capitalist.
And the banks still appreciate him vailing them out while ficking us all and all our municipalities, etc.
Yeah, the corrupt as fuck supreme court made sure that billionaires would run the country.
And they have helped over and over to disable democracy and reduce the ability of citizens to affect change over monied interests who buy Thomas his motor home and other "gifts" (spelled bribes). And Scalia, and the others...
This…
This is just another version of vote blue no matter who. It's just as dumb as people who only vote Republican. Trump didn't win that election, Hillary lost it.
So, this really isn't true in any meaningful way. People like to make a big deal out of the 12% of Bernie voters who went for Trump, but the majority of them identified as conservatives or centrists, while only 18% identified as liberal or left-leaning. Likewise, a lack of turnout doesn't seem to be the issue; black voter turnout dropped, but not by an unexpected margin, and young voters (who tend to be more left-leaning) had very strong turnout. Finally, you could try to blame leftists who voted third-party, but analysis shows that even if every single Jill Stien voter had gone to Clinton, she still would have needed to win over 50% of Gary Johnson's voters (who were obviously unlikely to consider themselves leftists).
You might be able to get the numbers to work if you say that if every leftist who stayed home OR voted third-party OR went to Trump voted for Clinton she'd have won, but that's incredibly hard to prove and probably relies on some specious assumptions (for example, that every Green Party voter was a disgruntled Democrat). At that point, you're pulling so many different groups together under a single banner that it's basically meaningless. You might as well say if women had voted for Hillary abortion would be legal.
Isn’t the entire job of campaigning politicians to convince people to vote for them?
So there is no winning, there's just lesser losing
If democrats didn't shove through hillary as the nominee, we wouldn't have had trump. Democrats don't actually care about harm reduction, they'd rather let fascists win than let progress through.
You aint wrong, thats why i specifically mentioned educating and Organizing throughout the year.
Not just that, but all four years too. All these fucking Bernie Bros just showed up at the eleventh hour and expected to get their way.
I was one of the few people in my local party office that was for Bernie. I consider myself to the left of him. When they started to show up I thought "great, finally some more people on my side." Then they started flooding the meetings, yelling and screaming, at people that have been putting in hard work for years. They expected everyone to do what they want just because they showed up to a few meetings just before the primary.
Not a-fucking-one of them phone banked, canvassed, or anything else. Just red faced yelling at people that had donated their time for years. People I disagreed with, but knew and respected for years. They might have been on my side but I sure as hell wasn't on theirs. It almost turned me off of Bernie even though I know it wasn't his fault. I went from being firmly for him to considering Hillary because fuck those guys (not really, but I was pissed).
If you want the party to change, show up every meeting, not a few weeks every four years. I'll be there waiting, I could really use your help pulling this place to the left and getting more progressive candidates the support I think they deserve.
How many of them were turned off by getting the treatment leftists get by democrats in any other public space of being blamed for every Republican win then being ridiculed when they point out dems don't give a fuck about their opinions either?
As long as dems play this Schrodingers Leftist bullshit, leftists aren't going to give a shit. If we're so fucking critical to dems winning they should probably stop telling us to suck a dick, shouldn't they? 🤷
I don't give a fuck what they think when they only show up two or three times every four years. And then when they do show up, instead of helping, they just denigrate good people who actually show up consistently.
If they show up consistently and have my back, I'll have theirs. If we have the numbers and some bullshit is pulled to keep us down, I'll raise hell with them.
Until then those lazy dilettantes can eat my entire ass.
Gee I can't possibly tell why somebody would be turned off by the idea of volunteering with you. 🙄
Couldn't possibly be the 20 minute rant they get for
disagreeing with you"denigrating good (read 'my') people"I’m in the same camp as Roscoe here. There are a bunch of people I disagree with on plenty of topics within democratic and left-leaning spaces who otherwise are doing the lion’s share in all varieties of GOTV, local or federal organizing and elections support activities like being a poll judge. I will have their back all day every day.
Disagreement ain’t an issue, coming in at the 11th hour and expecting me to bend over backwards for their pet thing 100% is.
Do I REALLY need to tell you it's not a surprise you don't make long term volunteers out of new people by treating them the way Y'all do? Go reread those comments and tell me you'd hang around after being treated that way.
Democrats are just equally fascist and yall think "not trump" is all you need to win elections. See ya after the downfall boys!
Not my people, quite the opposite, although I respect them.
They're just the people who are actually putting in the work. Unlike your people who's idea of effort is wiping the Cheeto dust off their fingers before they post.
But don't worry, just keep screaming impotently into the void. I'm sure progressive candidates with strong organizations will start magically appearing any day now if you just keep posting hard enough on Lemmy. No need to get off your couch.
Yeah I'm definitely going to lend my manpower to people who shriek about anybody left of Biden eating cheetos and upholding the dnc as the saviors of "democracy" after telling the nominee to eat shit then telling their voters to eat shit and watching Biden sidestep congress to fund genocide.
Whatevs bro, enjoy your righteousness and we'll just see ya after the downfall. 🤷
Same. I generally really like Bernie and his politics, I strongly dislike his most fervent supporters and the bare minimum he does to rein them and his surrogates in has left a sour taste in my mouth though. (Also, David Sirota and Briahna Joy Gray can eat a bag of dicks)
US: "Vote for the lesser evil."
Europe: "Vote for the party you want and have them still be represented either as a coalition majority or during crucial votes where every party matters."
Bernie would've won.
If the democratic party had put forth the best candidate, more people would have come out and voted. Maybe instead of pushing for voting for the less bad candidate, you put advocate voting for someone you actually like? The problem isn't left leaning people not voting for hillary. The problem is the systemic issues in the US voting system which only really allows a 2 party system and which can completely disregard the will of the populace by instead going through the electoral college system.
Hillary Clinton is better at motivating conservatives to vote against her than she is at motivating anyone else to vote for her.
I voted for her despite my distaste for her, after primarying for and making calls for Sanders against her. I cast my ballot like I was attending a funeral. But I did it. Out of least worst, water pumps on the Titanic time buying harm reduction. Polling place was a ghost town.
What was your excuse?
Better yet, you hate her so much, where were you during the primary? There was a significantly better option.
voting isn't harm reduction.
Voting for the lesser of 2 bad options is.
Which is why I'm voting Biden out of harm reduction. His neoliberal, market capitalist ass will hurt the country less than the fascist.
No positive options, only degrees of bad.
neoliberalism is fascism.
what's bad about cornel west or jill stein?
Voting third party is masturbation.
dismissing candidates because they are a so-called "third party" is undemocratic.
Then the framework of the United States is undemocratic.
say it again for the people in the back.
that's not what harm reduction is.
Leftists were absolutely not the problem unless Hilary lost most states. Independents, people in the middle, are usually the ones that are the important voters to win over. The rest of the info is correct. Don't shoot yourself in the foot that 1 important day, because the candidate isn't perfect.
If the Dems are serious about beating Trump, they still have time to pick a different candidate in their primaries. Joe Biden is clearly very unpopular - the last election was way too close, and this one is at real risk of Trump winning.
Sure, blame us for Trump and not the Dems for propping up an absolute turd of a candidate. Give people a reason to vote and they will.
Does this mean that your two party system is actually just a one party system?
OP, you HAD to know that wasn’t going to go over well here.
Your vote matters.
If 100% of voters voted liberal in the upcoming election, the one after that would have way more left leaning candidates.
Your vote directly matters.
I don't honestly see why that would be the case. If they've already won, why bother changing?
If the right never wins, they move further left to collect more centrist votes. If the right moves more left, the left moves more left to differentiate themselves and appeal to the more progressive crowd that might otherwise vote green party or some other third party.
This has actually been happening for the last few decades but in the other direction. Left leaning voters not turning out for elections, partially because Dems have a history of suppressing exciting progressive candidates meant that Dems sought more centrists to compete with the right. Particularly after 5 of the 6 presidential elections went to Republicans between the late 60s and late 80s So they moved further right as a result. Both Clinton's, Obama and Biden are not progressive, they're barely left of center. The Democrat Party actively discourages progressivism, particularly in presidential candidates, to make them feel "safe" and "reasonable" to centrists. That shift to the right meant that the right has had to appeal more to the relative eccentrics on the right like anarcho-capitalist libertarians, the Christian nationalists, and the white nationalists. And not just at a presidential level but on every level even down to school boards. Thus our current status quo.
Not that Nixon, Reagan, or the Bushes were at all good people, but at the very least they didn't feel comfortable publically and openly appealing to bigotry and the dismantling of the federal government as a campaign tactic. That is no longer the case with the modern GOP.
That would be the theory, but it doesn’t seem to actually play out in practice. Look at the UK, where worsening performance in recent elections and drastically worse polling at present is leading to their right wing doubling down and being upset that their leader’s policies aren’t right-wing enough.
Or Australia, where at the last election our right-wing had its moderates absolutely wiped out by even more moderate independents (and in some cases, by proper progressives). There are no prominent moderates left in their parliamentary party. As a result, the people who are left are the right wing of the party, and they have selected as their leader a rabid tough-line conservative.
Also not all politicians are just vote chasers
To move the Overton window.
As we see with the Republicans eating themselves, there will always be opportunists looking to take down their own and fill the Gap. But we can use that to our advantage to get the legislation we actually want. But we kind of have to take care of the crazies before we can 100% focus on fixing our house.
That didn't exactly answer the question. If Democrats consistently get all the power, why would they bother changing? Don't they already have what they want?
Maybe we can ask that when they actually do get all the power, because they've consistently lacked the majority needed to do any worthwhile changes.
Speaking for myself, voting for down ballot candidates is the first step towards changing a party. My home city secured a progressive majority in 2022, and previous elected progressives are now running for higher offices. It's always a process, and when done right provides better changes for the years to come.
Democrats aren't a monolithic entity that wants to gorge itself on power and then sit around fat and happy. It's a bunch of competing politicians who are constantly at risk of losing their seat - if not to Republicans, then, as in Cali, to fellow Democrats who propose a different line.
Dems haven't bothered changing even when they lose power. Part of the reason we are in this mess. They most go left or wither on the blue dog vine.
Question on more left leaning candidates - do you think there's a possibility a progressive party can actually gain traction?
I like the thought of revamping the Green Party as it's goals seem more relevant than ever, though they have to shed the kooky perception they've gained.
No, a third party will never make traction with our current voting system in place. The solution is the push the Democratic party left like Republicans have sprinted to the right (but obviously to not go crazy like they did).
Who said anything about a third party? I, for one, am hoping that the Republicans self-destruct thoroughly enough that the Democratic Party becomes the more right-wing of the two major parties.
Wouldn't that be lovely.
Ok same question if Ranked Choice Voting was in place?
I can speak firsthand here and say that the answer is yes. Australia uses Instant Runoff Voting for our House of Representatives, and Single Transferable Vote for our Senate. I’ll concentrate on the Reps here because it’s by far the more politically powerful of the two, though it’s worth noting that STV being a somewhat-proportional system makes it even better for minor parties.
The Australian political climate was, for most of my youth, not too different from America’s. Our conservative "liberal national coaltion" is not quite as awful as the Republicans, and Labor is a bit left of the Democrats, but it was very much a two-party system in practice. In 2010, after years of slowly doing better and better, the Greens won their first seat. They came second on first preferences, at 36.17% to Labor’s 38.09%. But the Greens received preferences from minor parties like the Sex Party, and even from the LNP in their attempt to destabilise Labor, and ended up winning the seat 56.04–43.96
Now, this is the innermost city electorate of Australia’s most progressive city, and you’ll note that even in FPTP, Labor would have won, which wouldn’t be a disastrous outcome. But the Greens saw an over 13 point swing toward them in that election alone, which is only possible in a situation where voters aren’t afraid of the spoiler effect leading to the LNP winning.
They’ve kept that seat ever since, and at the last election in 2022, the Greens almost won that seat entirely on first preferences, with 49.6% of the vote, and 60.2% after preferences were distributed.
Even more excitingly, in 2022 the Greens won their second ever seat. And their third and fourth. These all in a much less typically progressive area, the inner Brisbane seats of Brisbane, Griffith, and Ryan. Brisbane and Ryan previously belonged to the LNP, and Griffith was previously Labor. In Brisbane and Ryan, the LNP lead on first preferences, but the Greens lead in Griffith. If it were only down to these three parties, Labor would have won Brisbane, since the Greens came third by just 11 votes. The Greens would have won Ryan and Griffith. But thanks to preferences coming in from the smaller candidates (most smaller candidates are further right than the LNP, but most notably the Animal Justice Party pulled in a couple of per cent), the Greens finished ahead of Labor, leading to Labor being eliminated and most of their votes going to the Greens candidate. As a result, right now, I am living in an area represented federally by a Greens member. I also have a Greens state representative, and I’m hoping that something similar will play out so that in just under 2 months, I’ll also have a Greens councillor.
The rise of the Greens party in Australia has been incredible over the last couple of decades. It’s still slow progress and there’s a long way to go. Sadly IRV is not a proportional system, so despite polling about 10% nationally they still only have 2.7% of seats—if you’re going to switch systems, try to switch to a proportional one if you can!—but it is a system that allows for this kind of growth to play out in a way that it simply can’t when voters are forced to vote strategically for the least-worst of two main options, lest you get 2000’s Ralph Nader play out in Florida.
If they aren't even winning in state elections, aren't even winning in house elections, aren't even winning in senate elections
They don't have the voting base for president.
except when I'm the minority in my area and my vote gets thrown in the trash
It still matters. It pushes candidates towards you ever so slightly.
The two party system isn’t good, but it works fine as long as people fucking vote.
🙄
This is SUCH a pointless thing to harp on. Take it up with the Republicans instead of the miniscule fraction of a percentage of leftist who didn't vote. Finger pointing at people who agree with you produces nothing.
"If Poliece voted for Hillary in 2016..."
Hillary Clinton is/was not obliged to anyones vote and should have run a better campaign to attract leftest by doing bare minimun actions like supporting trans people or election/education reform. She also could have chosen a different candidate for running mate rather then the complete personality void that she ended up with as a sop to some imaginary "moderate conservitive" that was simpathetic to humanity over their net worth.
But she didnt. I wish she ran a better campaign as well, we may have been better off with her in office in 2016, but the issues that trump brought into focus in our society were not caused by him. They have been here the whole time.
The whole "you didn't vote for Hillary so Trump is your fault" is a typical liberal statement. Just like how their solution to plastic pollution wasn't to regulate the producers, but to get everyone to recycle things. And then if an individual didn't recycle that person was bad, but they ignore what the massive industry is doing.
Same with health care. Their solution wasn't universal coverage, it was making sure every individual had to buy health insurance, and then fining the individuals who didn't. No action against the massive, inefficient industry causing most of America's health care problems. Nope, it was passing the buck off to individuals yet again.
The Clinton campaign sucked. It was so dull the news shows would rather show an empty Trump podium than a speech by her. I thought the reason Clinton won the primary was because people wanted adults in charge who knew what they were doing, but clearly they didn't because she lost to a reality TV show con man.
And I think she won because she worked out a deal with the super delegates from 2008 when Obama "stole" the nomination from her.
While that might be the case, the line from the Clinton campaign on why they won was because they were the grownups who could actually beat Trump, not a bunch of petulant Bernie Bros.
Hunter S. Thompson, 1972.
50 years.
Counter point: If centrists had forced RBG to retire OR had they codified Roe into law in 2008 when Obama held the WH and the Democrats had the House and Senate... abortion would still be legal coast to coast.
I've held my disgusting leftist nose to "vote for the lesser of two evil" for two decades now. Shaming voters for having serious qualms with the Democratic Party's inaction on important issues isn't a good look for... the Democratic Party.
Finn here. You guys can't let Trump win. Gaza will be even more fucked than now. Ukraine will be fucked, which will lead to all of Europe being fucked. Your own country will also be more fucked than now. I hate Biden too, but Trump will be a total nightmare.
I have seen some bad takes, but this one makes me want to power vomit.
maybe instead of demanding the votes of the left you should earn them. Of course, this only really applies in systems where 2 parties dominate while other parties aren't really a credible option for most people, like the US, which in itself is a systemic flaw that should be addressed if you want a healthy democracy.
You don't get to blame people for not voting your candidate because "it was less bad than the other", if your whole point is being less bad than the other, rather than actually being good, then you're already losing and you should start looking at how to fix this issue before it gets worse. When turnout is lower than usual, like in 2016 in the US but also other elections like Italy in 2022, it means that democracy isn't healthy and there's a systemic problem which is leading to voters getting disillusioned, disengaged and disenfranchised from politics, which is extremely bad and should signal to you that "There's an issue! We need to fix it!" not that "Voters are so lazy/dumb/scum for not getting off their couch and voting [for me]".
Finally, I'd like to reiterate that if you keep asking leftists to vote for you at every election (to beat the other bad guys), yet every time you move further away from the left and/or disappoint leftists, eventually leftists will stop believing your bullshit and not vote you anymore, and you deserve that.
This is a fine attitude when you have to choose between eating the shit sandwich and the shards of glass. It's not so good during the primary, when you're deciding whether the first option will be a shit sandwich.
This is also not a good thing when it's weaponized to make sure that no genuinely progressive candidate can be realistic.
If leftists in Florida voted for Gore instead of Nader, we would have started a comprehensive program to address climate change in 2001. And the Iraq War would not have happened.
It would also still be legal if the Democrats had pursued any of the early obvious corruption, especially the Mueller report, instead of waiting for an election to replace an obviously corrupt man.
Eventually voting against corruption is not a sufficient check on corrupt power.
Actually, the general elections are on leap year, so you can educate and organize 365 days a year!
"whine ineffectually about it the rest of the time, but throw your unquestioning support behind our shitfuckery when we need it, no matter how bad we get"
If Democrats had ever done anything to fight fascism instead of just enabling it literally for generations, we wouldn't need to defend abortion.
Edit: also, of course a liberal uses a car analogy. How much more accurate could you get than to relate the democratic party to a thing most Americans are forced to use against their will, that kills their children and destroys their future... With an incredibly racist history and only slightly less racist present.
I get the sentiment, but I don't owe anyone a vote. Voting for the lesser of two evils is one thing when it's someone useless like Obama, but the "good" option is balls deep in a genocide and destabilizing the world in his allegiance to another country. Not voting for the senile genocide guy is the least I can do.
I'll be the first to say it sucks. Despite busting the railway unions his NLRB was doing good shit. It really really sucks.
Vote local, vote often, and try to help people be able to do the same. We'll get better candidates if and when we start voting them into smaller positions first. Republicans are generally more likely to vote locally, and this allows them to gerrymander the voting districts and control stuff from the local level up. Change your town and state officials to be more progressive, and they'll support more progressive policies and politicians at higher levels of government.
Anyone I like enough to vote for would be someone I like too much to subject them to what being in government is like.
Voting the lesser of two evils has arrived us at our current situation. It is not a solution.
Voting the lesser of two evils gets you less evil. The problem is the system that offers you two evils to vote for. 364 days a year to work on that.
Voting the lesser of two evils shows just those running that being evil does not bar them from getting votes. Sure it might get you less evil comparatively, but you are still increasing the amount of evil in office.
I'm sorry, it just seems a bit immature to see two options, one clearly worse than the other, and to refuse to choose the less bad one just because you'd have preferred different options.
Throwing away the pencil doesn't affect the outcome. All that you prove is that left wing people don't vote.
I am fine with being thought of as immature for refusing to vote for a man who is actively funding and supporting a genocide. Sure, Biden is "less bad" than Trump, that goes without saying, but are we really settling on "less bad than Trump" as our only qualification to be eligible for the President of the United States? Especially in the case of, again, ACTIVELY FUNDING AND SUPPORTING A GENOCIDE? So go ahead and think of me as immature, but I won't be the one with the blood of the Palestinians on my hands, that will be all those who decide that "less bad" is good enough for them.
Also, who said anything about not voting? I will be proudly be voting for Claudia De la Cruz, an actual leftist candidate who coincidentally is actively campaigning against the ongoing genocide. If the Democrats want to have leftists vote for them, maybe they should stop running right wing (which Biden and the Democrats actually are thanks to our outrageously shifted Overton Window) candidates and platforms.
There isn't only 2 options. There are 3rd parties to support. If the dems or Republicans lose enough elections, they will shift policy in the direction the votes are going if they ever care to win another election.
And if I had wheels I'd be a wagon.
Expecting either party to solve the problems they cause is foolish. Ranked choice voting will never get pushed by them. I live in GA, the state reps are about to outlaw ranked choice. What solutions do you think can be provided to people living here 364 days a year? Move to the middle of nowhere and try to build a grassroots movement with a bunch of inbred Maga kool-aid chugging fools?
My private and professional perspective as a trans woman and political scientist if there is low voter turnout this next election:
You realize that Hillary won the popular vote and Trump won the Electoral College?? You're argument is void.
If liberals had voted for Bernie in 2016, the same would be true.
Depends on where in the process we’re talking about. OP is(to me) clearly talking about the general election. If Bernie had won the primaries, then yeah, that would be true, considering where his base mostly is.
When corporate lobbyists completely control the only two viable parties, then voting is rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.
Reminder, you get to choose from the 2 canida8that were chosen for you.
Inspiring.
If you wanted to win an election, maybe you shouldn't have run with the example of the absolute worst that a democrat can be. The Clintons and Hillary in particular are garbage people who need to go the fuck away, they are toxic. They need to shut the fuck up and leave.
Do you think hyping up elections with a free democracy dog (a hotdog on election day) would make voting sexy enough that people would show up to the polls? Like Australia.
It’s Bernie’s fault!
Bruh hilliary was funded by anti abortion lobbyists. Funny how no one remembers that
Electoral College ensures my vote for president doesn't matter.
Lol screw off. Hilary was as indecisive as Biden on pop issues, only benefit she would have brought would have been the SCOTUS appointment and it still would have been given to some corporate shill judges who happen to be very slightly "progressive" just like the current bum chief justice who deleted like half of citizen's rights for no reason.
This is also the same person who was very publicly exposed along with the DNC proving that primary voting is a complete scam in the USA.
Most leftists did vote for Hillary, even after Bernie got screwed over. She lost because none of the centrists voted at all and republicans voted slightly more.
Seeing as the biggest problem facing the world right now is that there are too many internal combustion engines, you should probably come up with a better metaphor.
Not the user I was expecting to see post this. Good look.
Hopefully more people are waking to the very obvious fact that there are a ton of right wing trolls on here pretending to be leftists. The most obvious one is all over this thread.
Note: this year has 366 days
They did...
Unfortunately, its the Torment Engine from the Sci Fi classic novel "Don't Build The Torment Engine", and its slowly crawling across the country sucking people up into its maw and eviscerating them.
But hey, someone's got to change the oil on this thing, and it keeps you from being on the business end (most of the time). Better keep our national Roko's Basilisk running smoothly, lest it turn its gaze upon thee.
I refuse to accept the premise of lesser evil. It's a false choice.
Here's an idea, actually have candidates that support the people, not their donors. Until then, I won't vote for any of them.
Oh, they did vote for her. So much so that everyone thought she won until the final count.
But she decided to call everyone not voting for her a terrible human being by default and they voted to spite her.
The lesson to take away is pretty obvious.
Honestly at this point there's no convincing his cult that anything else matters.
You just have to hope that are more democrats in the right places, and that they vote.
I'd say the average person who needs to be told to vote would require a little bit more punctuation in this meme to actually understand what it's saying without tuning out halfway through!
How do you move the Overton window? By voting in the most left candidate possible and not letting the far right win elections.
*People hella mad about basic things like this.
When the most left leaning candidate is right leaning I moves the overton window right
If the right wing candidate is a far right fascist, you prevent it moving to far right fascist. Shut that down and then next time they won't run a far right fascist and guess what the Overton window moves left.
Case in point: they are running a far right fascist again because they think he can win. If he was shut down the first time, the Overton window would have moved left.
I've been doing this for 24 years. When should I expect it to start working?
Just think about how much worse it would be.
Just when I thought I couldn't have less hope for humanity
If you don't vote defensively, you are part of the problem. This is true whether you are in a multiparty system or the 'American one'.
It's not a lesser evil. It's the same evil wearing a different dress.
Tell your handlers that for this farce to continue you must concede us a win occasionally. Practice what you preach. Incremental progress. Min wage increase here, universal healthcare there.
As it stands now all you fuckers do is lie. Lie and wag your fingers at people who know how the system works better than you do.
Thats the compromise. We accept your lukewarm, limpwristed, milquetoast bullshit in exchange for incremental progress. But you've offered no progress. When challenged even slightly you sprint for votes from the right which only leads to you losing elections and further alienating those to the left of fucking Reagan.
Those Republicans you're courting despise you and will never support you in meaningful numbers. They're comfortable and only care about 2 things. Property Values and Taxes.
You aren't voting to change the world, you're buying time so that there's a world left for you to change.
You can't have a woman for president, after a person of color or the assholes will think you're too woke.
I did vote for Hillary and it did nothing. Move on honey.
Nice try Liberals/Democrats. Not getting my vote for free anymore.
i live in indiana. my vote for the presidency literally does not matter
that's not what harm reduction is.
How sad is the person who made this meme? This was made by somebody who’s given up. It was made by a coward, and a bootlicker. This person has made a slave of themselves, in the hopes their master will save killing them for last.
Pathetic, and beneath all my consideration beyond contempt.
What a loser post. I've voted for the lesser evil before and Duterte won anyway. Then I voted on principle and Marcos won anyway. Votes for Leody de Guzman did not have a spoiler effect on the lesser evil candidate Leni Robredo.
Abortion is still legal in the United States? Several states have enacted state laws restricting it.
I would rather have a candidate everyone knows is bad than continue to slip into a worse and worse state
It's already been said, but if there had been a Left candidate, I wouldn't have staid home. There was no real Left option. Trump wasn't my fault. It was Hilary's.
if Democrats had voted for Jill Stein, she would have won. the margin of victory was less than the votes stolen by Democrats splitting the left.
But the radio is on the wrong station!! I can’t participate to keep the motor running unless changing the station is top priority.
If only the Democrats with Obama encoded abortion rights like everyone screamed at them to do when they had full control of everything.
But it was too good a carrot to make people scared for the Repooblicans and force them to vote Democrat.
Also Genocide Joe wanted to get rid of abortion rights in the past. He's probably glad it's gone even though he's acting like he's sad about it:
"I do not view abortion as a choice and a right. I think it's always a tragedy, and I think that it should be rare and safe, and I think we should be focusing on how to limit the number of abortions. And there ought to be able to have a common ground and consensus as to do that," Biden, who was a Democratic senator for Delaware at the time, said in the video.
Lol what a meme. Abortion is illegal in the states eh? And making it legal is harm reduction? Hilarious
Screw Hillary. She's a rotten cunt. If she noticed you drowning at a hotel pool during a fundraiser, she'd use her foot to push you under instead of giving a hand to pull you out.
Trump, would just walk past and ignore you.
Spain voting out their fascist Prime Minister, 1973:
Be the change that you want to see in the world. /s