Your Windows 10 PC will soon be 'junk' - users told to resist Microsoft deadline
Your Windows 10 PC will soon be 'junk' - users told to resist Microsoft deadline::If you're still using Windows 10 and don't want to upgrade to Windows 11 any time soon you might want to sign a new online petition
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/1831239/microsoft-windows-10-end-support-petitionOpen linkView original on lemmy.world476
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Or just try linux. It's pretty great
I love Linux. I have it installed on 3 machines, have been using it for over 3 years, and would install it right away if I ever got a new computer.
A couple weeks ago, I was feeling pretty exhausted and just wanted to play a game thru Proton on my laptop. I got it running, but it was unplayable because it was using my integrated GPU instead of my discrete one. I spent the night switching compositors, cables, and drivers, but none of it fixed the issue.
The next day, feeling exhausted from fruitless debugging, I tried to launch another game via Proton that I knew had worked in the past, but it crashed on launch. I spent the whole day going thru the same steps I did the day before, but also consulting ProtonDB and trying software that would force usage of the dgpu.
The next day, I installed Windows 10 to an external hard drive and spent the day debloating it. Drivers got installed automatically, I downloaded both games on Steam, and they just worked. So I guess I now dual-boot Windows just for the games that don't work thru Proton. Loading game worlds and booting up take ~75% longer, but that's to be expected because it's running on a 4 year old HDD connected over a USB cable.
As mentioned earlier, I love Linux a lot, and if all games had native binaries or Proton worked 100% I'd format that god-forsaken hard drive. But when real life has got me down, I don't need Linux to get me down further. I don't like Windows, and I feel incredibly dirty whenever I press F7 on boot to get to Windows. But when my choices are "spend 8 hours on fruitless quest to get >2fps" and "press play button", I'm going to take the path of least resistance.
That's the thing. I love to use Linux for work, but when I don't want to tinker it sometimes sucks for gaming.
Yep. And then there’s gamepass. I vastly vastly prefer working and using Linux day to day, but games, man. Man’s gotta be able to game after a long day at work and I wasted literally a week of after work hours trying and failing to get Starfield to run on Proton.
iGPU+dGPU, esp with Nvidia is pretty bad on Linux. It's pretty flawless these days if you're using only one vendor and it isn't Nvidia.
I have an external monitor that runs at 144Hz, but a while ago I realized because it was connected over HDMI, it was limited to 60Hz (for some weird reason). So I bought a DisplayPort cable, and after plugging it in the screen was flickering/artifacting in some weird way that I haven't seen it do on X11 or Windows with the same cable. So as a result I've had to reluctantly switched back to i3 for daily use
I would probably rather get a gaming console for the TV to game.
Why not a steam deck?
I love my steam deck but there's enough games from my library that won't run at all or only run after some manual trickery in desktop mode.
Tbf that really depends on the kind of games you like playing.
What game was it?
The first game mentioned was Bille Bust Up. I liked the demo that was off of Steam (and it ran fine using the proton-call command), so I subscribed to the developer's Patreon (which gives a Steam key) and it wouldn't use my dgpu.
The second game was A Hat in Time.
Nvidia laptop by the sounds of it?
Anything with an AMD GPU is going to have a better time (or even just a dedicated Nvidia GPU in a desktop).
Thanks for sharing. I'm sorry to hear you had trouble. Both games are rated as gold on ProtonDB. So, I am surprised you had trouble with them.
My experience has been the opposite. Everything has worked surprisingly well. Do you by chance use an Nvidia gpu?
Yep, Nvidia gpu. At the time I bought it I wasn't aware of their reputation for Linux support, and I bought my laptop from System76 (with Pop!_OS, because Nvidia drivers are more "just works" on it). I've had a fairly good experience with all of it, but the next computer I buy will definitely have an AMD GPU.
I think this is the first time I've been fully unable to get the dgpu working. Every other time it's just worked or worked with tweaking
I work in a linux shop.
You couldn't pay me to use Windows for development, sysadmin, backend services, etc.
But on the desktop? Hell no. We maintain a modern debian desktop environment for our users, and it's a pain in the ass. Mediocre UX, mediocre integration of mixed-bag third-party apps, and too many workarounds and gotchas you need to Just Know About. I just don't have the energy.
I use windows at home, and for my underlying work environment - and I just SSH into linux boxes for the actual tappy-tappy stuff.
You're talking about my Windows 10 experience? The european, less spying/advertising version, mind you.
If only there was an OS with an excellent graphical user interface and a direct UNIX pedigree, where you can drop into a full zsh and POSIX user land directly after install at the touch of a button.
If there's one thing that both windows and Linux users agree on, it's how weird and annoying macs are.
I'd wager that's because "we know better what you want" in mac is even stronger than in windows. It's all good while you are an average Joe, but other than that you either pay, or get a lot of issues setting things up.
As a linux user, I SSH to a Linux box when I want to do things that aren't file/print/email/media/games - though honestly, Powershell is pretty fucking awesome as a scripting language.
Imagine if every command used JSON when piping to/from another command, so you aren't fucking around with cut and awk and sed all the time just to pull values out. It's nice. I don't have much application for it personally, but it honestly is pretty grown-up.
So… today?
I’m a Linux user. Been one for a long time.
When I’m doing dev-work, shelling into remote VMs and stuff yeah I have to get nitty-gritty with the command-line.
But on my regular daily-driver OS? I only use the terminal because I want to; or sometimes I think it’s more efficient. But I haven’t absolutely needed to for a long time now.
Linux GUI has really come a long way. It’s not at MacOS level (yet), but it’s very functional and aesthetic. Give it a try.
Yeah, I hear you. I still run an old MacbookPro with MacOS for personal computing stuff. I just don’t always want to tinker. It’s been a living meme: “the year of the Linux desktop” for years on years now and yet we still comprise like 0.3% of the desktop market.
But I really do see a tide shift now. Microsoft is doubling down on the enshittification of Windows. Apple’s hardware is still—as always—prohibitively priced. Steam OS on the Steam deck. The Indian government officially adopting it—and its FOSS office application offerings. Companies like Pop!_OS and Framework are making real headway for popular adoption. HP, Dell, Lenovo all offer Linux-default laptops now, that aren’t just “Pro-Dev” offerings.
Linux is not as polished as the for-profit offerings. Perhaps it never will be. Perhaps that’s also its appeal.
There are a few distributions out there that are genuinely trying to abstract the nitty-gritty away and bring a polished Linux to the masses. ElementaryOS, for one. Yet, it is still Linux at its core and all the poweruser functionality isn’t far away.
But to face a bit of harsh reality, the average computer user doesn’t want that. They resist change and learning something new, they want it to “just work” and “work for me the way [company] says it should” even if that means gross (often implicit) violations of privacy, control, agency. They just don’t care. Or maybe they don’t know. It’s amazing how hard it is to “degoogle” oneself, let alone “demicrosoft” or “deapple”. As I type this on an iPhone…
There will always be bleeding edge computation environments. I just hope that we users can force Big Tech’s hands to respect data privacy and agency. We had a big win with Google conceding web-DRM, but it won’t be the first nor last attempt and their patience is immense.
Tron: “I fight for the users.
Hundreds of commands is just not true with many distros. Everything is gui based these days. The command line is worth getting familiar with, but it’s not necessary.
If you haven't checked out linux in 5+ years, I recommend that you check out something user-friendly like Mint. No commands needed!
Sure ok, can you give us some examples from the hundreds of commands you need to memorise for basic use?
The time is now then!
I mean, it won't let me. Windows Update inists my PC doesn't meet the minimum spec, and I'm not inclined to argue with it.
#GleefulCompliance
You can use Rufus to install windows 11 and bypass the requirements. It does everything for you -- downloads the latest win 11 service pack, removes the blocking requirements, and you can even tell it to automatically disable all of the telemetry and phoning home. You'll still need a license key when you install, or run it on a machine that was running a valid win 10 install previously. But I'm running win 11 on an 8 year old PC with zero issues.
Here is a good guide that explains in detail.
True, or I could just not.
I would like to point out that this is exactly the same difficulty of just installing linux, without freeing you from microserfdom.
The problem for me is that I basically only use my PC for gaming and YouTube.
I know SOME games work, but I don't want to add to the list of games I can't play because they're console/windows only. :/
I have the exact same use case for my PC and have no issues gaming on Linux for the vast majority of games. The caveat, however, is that anti-cheat can be problematic, so if you exclusively play games with anti-cheat that could be a problem for you. The only titles I have issues with are competitive shooters.
We've long since transitioned into the "most" games work territory. Basically apart from anything with rootkit-like anti cheat, you shouldn't have any trouble playing games at all.
Comparing the level of effort to run windows vs Linux is a whole other thing I'm definitely not getting into. I use Linux for work and run it on two machines at home, but I also use my Windows box for games. You can use and enjoy both, it doesn't have to be a religious war.
I highly recommend you attempt to run your games on a Linux box, as the experience has improved vastly. I also keep a Windows install around for the odd game that doesn't work in Linux (basically just a couple competitive shooters that I enjoy), but the number of times I need to boot into my Windows partition are diminishing day by day. Definitely did not mean to be a zealot about it, but going through the effort outlined above just so you can get Windows updates from a company that clearly doesn't care if they trash your machine forcing your upgrade seems foolish to me.
Mine doesn't, either. Go go gadget 12 year old processor! Who knew being a cheapskate could be so beneficial?
But refusing to upgrade me to 11 is an anti-problem...
Is it the UEFI security thing?
TPM. Probably switched off in the BIOS or something.
Don't care, don't like what I've seen of 11, happy to wait until I'm forced to change.
Nah fuck you, I'm staying with 10 as long as I can, then I'm switching to linux
My PC doesn't hit the requirements for windows 11. Yet it kept asking me to update. Been running Ubuntu ever since
Same here, but I moved to Arch because I wanted the latest drivers, at the beggining with GNOME, but then moved to KDE to get the newest Wayland stuff related to Gaming.
How difficult would you say is getting in to arch?
No harder than any other distro, I came from Windows, distrohopped between 10 distros, and settled on Crystal Linux (arch based), after learning that KDE was better for gaming, I switched to Manjaro out of ignorance that Crystal already offered that DE.
Try it on an external drive. I did that a couple years ago just to fool around and see if I liked it, within a week it was my main OS and I've barely used Windows since.
Hahaha, no you're not
I just made this exact switch a few months ago, so, yeah, it happens.
And I did it 18 months ago!
(Spoiler: it turned out fine)
Almost a year here! Working great! (No, for real, modern desktop Linux experience is surprisingly refined, it's more stable and performant than Windows!)
And I never did. I just started with Linux Mint when I got my first laptop.
But I do see the perspective of Windows users, perhaps. I did briefly try using Windows, but it was frustrating. I don't know how to set anything in there. For some reason there's 2 setting apps (control panel and settings), each only being partially usable. My Wi-Fi kept dying, the only solution was replacing the Intel Wi-Fi card for one from Qualcomm. Bluetooth only worked randomly like every 20th restart. Drivers for my 20 year old printer didn't work in either 10 nor 11. Only up to Windows 7.
Painful experience.
Yeah, when they went from 7 to 10 (there's no 9 for horrible hacky reasons, and 8 was the mandatory half-baked test-run of the next proper version), they tried to redo the aesthetics of those systems to be more touch-input styled, but they only half-did it. If you want anything more advanced than the settings app gives you, you need to dig into the control panel. Then there's the deeper settings - device manager, computer management, startup services, firewall, the registry, and on and on, all of which are designed entirely differently and many of which haven't seen any update since windows 2000 at least. I wouldn't be surprised if some went back further. It all speaks to ancient legacy code nobody wants to touch and the unfathomable depths of technical debt that implies. I get the sense the settings app change is another in a long line of updates that became legacy and added yet another layer to this byzantine system.
Then there's the lovecraftian user permissions system that seems like it layers three levels of abstraction that you have to utterly master to get literally anything done and which I have given up trying to understand. If I need permissions, I run a third party batch file that assigns complete ownership of everything in a folder to me, and then I don't think about the consequences.
I really want to move to Linux, but I've gotten burnt out on attempting and not being able to do all of the many things I'm used to on Windows. I've been hearing good things about it lately and I may just have the energy to try again soon.
I wish you a good luck! And don't hesitate to ask - often times it's very simple, actually!
Wow, a real Linux native here! Wonderful to know.
Yes, I gotta say after running Linux for like a week I seriously couldn't think of coming back to Windows. I just began to understand how much of a trash Windows systems are.
Yeah but I use my pc to play games. And to read all the Linux coping strategies to run modern games with software bypasses or strategies... I don't need to jailbreak and run through 150 pages of forums and guides so I can play my steam games.
I have ~200 games in my steam library, all of which run by pressing "play" in steam. I may just accidentally like games that run on linux, but running through 150 pages of forums definitely isn't the norm nowadays
Well I was playing starfield when considering dabbling in running Linux and I got shy reading how to run it on Linux, let alone any of my other games.
Majority of games are launched as easy as pressing play in steam, or even just launching the .exe with regular Wine. Software bypasses are mostly a thing of the past. I'm saying this as a gamer.
Is Starfield one of them? I installed Ubuntu next to Windows 10, and like it just fine, but I've read that getting Starfield to run on Ubuntu is not possible yet? If not for Starfield, I'd be 100% Ubuntu now.
And I'm halfway there, laptop on mint, pc still on windox.
I've been using linux on my secondary machine for a couple of years now and I don't really feel the need to use Windows anymore.
all of my software just works and my workflow is cross-platform (I don't really care about which os I'm using, i can get things done regardless); but as a software developer I'd much rather use linux than spend my time managing like 6 virtual linux/unix-like environments on windows. (wsl, msys2, etc)
All of the games I care about actually work slightly better on linux than on windows. (and a single click away from installing and launching from steam); also Steam Big Picture mode and gamepad support (dualshock 4) is much better on linux than on Windows 10, on windows some features only work over Bluetooth.
i use arch btwI made the switch to Linux Host OS 5 years ago and haven't looked back. Plus the fact that Cyberpunk 2077 works with an RTX card and wireless game controller out of the box is enough to keep me interested for now.
Tf do you know about anybody, especially on a FOSS-leaning network?
i know that basically everyone on here is a pussy
First of all fuck you. Second of all I laughed my ass off at thst. I'm not sure why. Good job.
you're welcome steven
Especially you
Nutsack and CaptainVaqina calling each other pussy.
Yes I am
I made the switch to linux when Win7 died, cause Win10 is a giant PoS and I refused to ugrade to it, lol.
Hopped a few Distros before settling on Nobara, which has given me the best "It just works" gaming experience.
Fun fact: Linux is so customizable that you can run a modern GUI and software on 46mb of ram and a CPU from 1989. Don't let Microshit tell you to throw out your old PC, it's truly surprising what's possible.
Yeah but can it run signed drm in a way that the owner of the computer can't read the keys? Checkmate atheists.
I've switch my home computers to Linux. Unfortunately, at work, I have to maintain a Windows environment...
Did your job give you a work Laptop? If you personally own it then you could just run Windows in a VM.
I do IT support at my company. We are a small business, but we work on many government contracts. I'm personally not experienced enough on Linux to support it at a businesses level. Part of working on government contracts is that we have to be CMMC certified in the relatively near future, probably first or second quarter next year. I'd love to get off of Windows, but like I mentioned I don't have the knowledge to get us there, and we're pretty entrenched in Windows until at least after the audit. Maybe someday, but the Microsoft m365 business GCC High is built with that specific certification in mind. It would require changing everything about our business to switch, and I don't care enough about the company to go through that.
But can I be fucked waiting 5 minutes for a VM to boot every time I need to use a Windows-only tool?
Don't shutdown the VM. Instead, use shutdown -> save button in the virt-manager. Now your VM will launch in seconds next time you want to use it because it'll be resumed from the saved state.
Cries in HDD
Sounds like a great excuse for a bit of a hardware upgrade, SSDs have gotten pretty cheap. You can change your whole computing life for $30-50.
You could just use the earliest version of Windows that the software works (Windows 7 usually) and then keep the VM air gapped (aka no Internet connection)
Let me introduce you to Adobe. Single-handedly keeping Linux adoption in check.
So customizable that it can’t even be run on many devices.
Linux runs on way more devices than Windows, what are you talking about?
Well not the ones I tried. Maybe I had bad luck.
It’s been like 15 years so I don’t remember but I remember one wouldn’t work due to a proprietary driver. The other I just couldn’t figure out so it may be user error but it certainly wasn’t easy to set up.
I have been meaning to give it another go. You think it’s easier these days?
Probably something in the BIOS, like secure boot or something. Normally such issues are easy to troubleshoot.
Once was a proprietary driver. Obviously not the fault of Linux but still an obstacle for me. The other I forgot the issue. It may have been solvable but it was not easy for me.
Got you. Yes, drivers are still a mess sometimes.
Nah, fuck it, I'm switching to Linux.
Yep. Gaming is starting to work on Linux, so I will move to Linux once Microsoft cancels 10.
11 has nothing more than more telemetry and tracking going for it. Gaming is slower, so why would I upgrade for a worse experience.
I play old games still anyways. Linux is more secure than Windows 11 anyways. I won't upgrade to 11, and turned off TPM in BIOS so 11 won't automatically install.
Can't wait for anti cheat to work with Linux ☹️
This is my biggest hold up. Pretty much any triple A game has anti cheat these days.
Most anticheat software actually runs on Linux! Even the previously stubborn EasyAntiCheat got its Linux-compatible version.
I know it can run on it but games like destiny and fortnite still have to allow it unfortunately
Most modern games can work. But this is a dev issue, not a "wait until it works on linux" issue
EAC, and BattleEye both work on Linux, all the dev has to do is tick a "Proton Compatible" checkbox. Which many publishers/devs, namely Epic, don't do because they hate linux with a red hot passion for some unknown reason.
Are you living under a rock ? Gaming is working in linux now.
I haven't entirely switched in part due to Rainbow Six Siege not working on Linux. Something about Battleye supports it but Ubi hasn't done the few simple steps to allow it. So it's not entirely working yet
Edit: Apparently this is one of the best ways to let Ubisoft know that players want this fixed https://r6fix.ubi.com/projects/RAINBOW6-SIEGE-LIVE/issues/LIVE-49179
Oh yes, another "No, I refuse to check the box" devs/publishers. Literally the company that made BattleEye compatible with Proton won't enable the damn thing on their most popular game. There just needs to be a big enough outcry. Which as 10 hits EOL and the SteamDeck continues to sell, the Linux userbase will grow.
What I meant was that it is starting to get simple to play games using Linux now.
I'm not a teenager anymore who enjoys getting games to work by editing settings outside of games like during the Win 3.11 and MS-DOS days.
After decades working IT jobs I don't want to do work when I'm trying to relax. Linus will have a nearly seamless system when Win 10 reaches EOL.
Next computer of mine will definitely be running Linux. Only thing I'd ever need windows for is some oddly specific software that won't work on Linux because I'm too dumb to get working properly.
Lmao. This article is junk. Yew I'm sure millions of people are going to suddenly dump their PC's because they don't get security updates. Most people don't follow this at all and don't care.
And no, they're not going to magically jump to Linux as much as the Lemmy circlejerk loves to believe. If they know enough about security they probably already have looked into Linux and decided against it.
As I Linux user I can't wait for the flood of cheap perfectly good hardware from these idiots
There is no way they don’t offer extended support for Windows 10. Many PCs can’t get to windows 11. Imagine all the malware infected machines that will be out there.
I worked for a large computer company in the late 90s, early 2000s. When XP came out, they said there would be no site licensing. This meant we had to keep track of license keys for thousands upon thousands of systems, costing millions. This was before KMS or anything.
"Nothing we can do," Microsoft said. "We have no gate key."
Our server farms at the time were 40% Windows NT 4, 55% Sun systems, and 5% Linux. So we said, "okay," and called Red Hat. In a year, our back end was 60% Sun, 35% Linux, and 5% Windows NT. We were already in talks to start switching to Linux workstations for desktops.
"Oh, you mean this gate key," said Microsoft.
Asshats. They lost our server business, but let us use XP with a site license.
I assume eventually they'll drop the UEFI security requirement, which is why 90% of the "can't" cases occur.
Uefi isn't the push, the push is tpm 2.0, which I think is a much much larger percentage of "incompatibilities". tpm allows for drm that is much harder to bypass, since the random number generator operates securely in hardware. It's for their benefit not yours.
Precisely why I'm in no rush to "upgrade".
My Windows install is still in compatibility mode. It's the sole reason I can't upgrade to 11, not that I want to. I can't be bothered to reinstall Windows on UEFI when there's no point anyway. I'll happily stick to 10.
Dude what ad ridden hellscape is that site, ublock pinged 45 ads on that page just on load lol
🥇
Third-party scripts disabled and it loads instantly, no ads. Funny that.
yea it was overkill enough to make me look into if connect supports always opening links external so I can have my ad block lol
The day i had ads on my start page i immidiately uninstalled windows. I installed some linux distro its been like three years and ive finally settled on arch. it was hard but fuck ads on the start page and i feel smarter for it
Once ALVR becomes even remotly usable on Linux im wiping my windows partition and going full Linux (I'm already using it for everything exept VR)
The next Steam OS device is supposedly aimed at VR. I can't imagine it launching without ALVR.
It sounds like they have beta support for Linux, so it seems like it's getting there.
A bit clickbait'y. Windows 10 will still work just fine for another decade at least, even without support.
In the Enterprise we ran 10+ year old PC's with XP still on them because the CNC program only runs on XP. No issues but of course you wouldn't use the internet on that machine.
Does having support really make a massive difference, especially if you're running AV anyway? A good AV suite will still be updated for years to come.
The government sector like hospitals etc will pay for extended support so not to worry.
It's only Enterprise that might have an issue because they want patched systems but may not be able to afford Win 10 Enterprise. Especially small to medium business.
As for the home user, it's not a massive issue.
Personally I don't care because I run Linux exclusively. I only gave win 10 running in a VM for printing. Canon said on the box that the printer supports Linux, then after I bought it, officially stopped all Linux support on their site. The original Ubuntu driver only support black and white. So I'm forced to use Windows in a VM for printing. But it's not connected to the net so it will fulfill this role forever.
If you're a regular home user and don't use any special proprietary software like Photoshop, I highly recommend you try Linux Mint. It will also breathe new life into your machine
Not having security patches on a system you do things like go to your banking website on is actually a pretty big deal, and I don't think it should be dismissed lightly. Also AV is mostly snake oil, and is in no way an adequate substitute for a properly patched OS.
Hi, someone that worked on banking stuff in the past.
You are not safe, nothing is even half as secure as it should be and you are most likely just using a web based front end puppeteering a much much older system. The browser you are on is normally the second weak point after your own dumb self and I have not even heard of one case (not saying there are none) of a OS related vulnerability with online personal banking.
I'm with you there. It's all layer upon layer of vulnerability and false security, and then at the bottom of all of it lurks the Ken Thompson hack.
Still bad advice to tell people it's okay to use an explicitly vulnerable OS, I think.
But in that lies the rub, how is it explicitly vulnerable?
It's not as big a deal as you think because most banking hacks are done via browser vulnerabilities rather than OS vulnerabilities. The exception being if you've somehow managed to install a keylogger, in which case the issue is the user and a decent AV should detect and block the keylogger.
As long as you use a browser that gets the latest updates (Firefox, Vivaldi, Chrome), run a decent AV, and don't install dodgy software you downloaded from some dodgy site, you should be ok.
AV is definitely not snake oil. I worked in Enterprise IT and a robust AV alongside other security measures is a must and does catch alot. More than the built in Windows security catches. Plus the AV normally incorporates a virus/malware removal tool which tends to be better than Windows built in tool.
Would you advise your enterprise clients that running Windows unpatched is 'not a big deal as long as you have patched web browsers and AV'? Of course not. Because that's dangerous advice and could even open you up to legal liability.
So why would you advise otherwise to home users, who are often more vulnerable in the first place?
Because home users are not Enterprise users. They are not nearly as juicy a target.
If we are talking about malware and vulnerabilities, home users are a far bigger and easier target then corps.
Corporations have a custom firewall, proxy servers, VPN connections for all clients and double safeties for all important processes. While they are an interesting target for big organisations like terrorists and secret services, they have near to no value for the average Internet thiefe. Even if one could get in, there are no bank accounts lying around with money in them.
Home users have none of that, once you are on their PC you get everything. Sure their bank account will only net you a few thousand on average, but you get it easily.
What? Why would you get anything from a home user that you would not get from a corporate user? In fact I think you will find they get all the juice from the person (staff) and then extra from the business (and access to more victims).
You also have to factor in the sad fact that the age of viruses and malware has largely become the age of phishing and scams. People found out you don't need malware when you can just trick people into giving you access anyway. This endless fear of missing updates is now mostly just marketing.
Very well said 👍
The daily express isn't exactly known for it's accurate insightful reporting. The headline is mostly about scaring people, mostly elderly (their main readership) that their computer is about to stop working.
Last winter I ripped my DVD collection to my NAS. Problem: Neither my current daily driver laptop or desktop have optical drives. So I hauled out my father's OLD Dell XPS. This thing has a Core i7 with three digits in the part number, I think it was built in 2008 or so. Felt like absolute sluggish crap running Windows 10. It feels perfectly modern running Linux Mint. And I have the old box a pretty hot supper ripping and transcoding all those DVDs all winter, but it did it.
Computers don't slow down, Windows does.
I'm running windows 10 on a first Gen i7-930. I've upgraded my ram and video card over the years but still on a crappy hdd. Windows isnt lightning fast by any means. But it's not unbearable. Perhaps my mind will blow when I finally upgrade.
My pc isn't eligible for upgrade to eleven. Guess I'm sol then.
Great story 👍. Amazing
Have you tried installing CUPS ? And setting up your printer using the web UI ? Worked for me perfectly for every printer I threw at it.
I could not get CUPS working in a docker container for the life of me. So now I have a stupid little CUPS server.
It does work great, even though it feels like they finished dev in 2003 and never revisited it.
Why docker and not a normal package ?
Because my main server is running UnRAID and most things are ran in containers. I could probably do it in a VM, but it seemed like more of a hassle and it might have the same discovery issue the container had. Throwing it in an old dying server as a package is what I ended up doing, but I'm not happy about it. 😅
AV cannot fix it all, unfortunately. But Linux is the way.
My machine running Win10 LTSC is getting updates until 2029. I also have machines running Debian. There is no way I am installing the regular version of Win11. Its trash made to pander to greedy shareholders. If they take the garbage out for LTSC, I might run it.
As an individual, how do you get the LTSC version legally, and how much does it cost?
Can you ping me if they tell you? I would also like to know
I guess there is no legal option for individuals because Microsoft only provides LTSC option for orgs. Most guides I saw in the internet just tell you to download some iso from google drive link. You might be able to download it from Microsoft here but I haven't actually tested it because it asks you to register your info before proceeding. Then you'll activate it using activator scripts such as MAS or buy some grey market keys on some keys site.
You can't unless you form a small group like a non profit organization or a business. You can cheat the system legally going the NPO route as long as you find a way to fulfill legal requirements, but you need friends (it helps to know someone in law school too) and you have to do the legal paperwork and share all the cost. You could make a gamer NPO for example. The price to do this will vary depending on where you live. The price for the volume license can vary a lot depending on where you get it from. Where your group is located effects this. In my local it is about $200-400 USD per person.
Your other alternative is the grey market. Its grey because it is legally ambiguous.
Well, your best option is to switch to Linux
Just in case you don’t want to go to the tabloid hell that is the Express Petition Link pirg.org
It’s such an awful site, and always surprises me when I see it being used/shared. Surely when it comes to tech there are better resources than a tabloid for it.
In line with many folks' suggestions here, I'm ALL for switching to Linux full time after playing around with a few distros... BUT, I use dxo Photolab for photo editing which doesn't run on Linux, yes, even through wine etc.
Also yes, I know the are a bunch of great Foss alternatives. I've tried them all. Nothing touches the results from my current program unfortunately.
I would be stoked if anyone could enlighten me as to how I could get that working.
Have looked at dual boot before but it seemed like a ( admittedly fairly minor) pita. File sharing/ access across both systems is my main concern. Thanks for your response.
File access across systems is no problem.
It just has to be a separate partition either in the form of a whole SSD/HDD or as a partition on your main drive. Just make it NTFS (a file system that all those OSes know) it works with both windows and linux. I still have 3 NTFS partitions from my dual-boot days.
FWIW, I only needed to install one package to be able to read the drive that my Windows install is located on/a shared drive between my two installs. It has been very easy to access the Windows partition from my linux install, but I have not needed to access my linux partition from the Windows install yet, so can't speak to the ease of doing this.
Yeah, just make a drive/partition NTFS, and it will be usable by both systems. Please note that some Linux software doesn't work well with NTFS, for example Timeshift (backup utility) and Steam Proton, so it's best to have an ext4/btrfs drive for things you do exclusively on Linux and NTFS for common files of both systems (like documents, music, films, whatever)
Your best bet is virtualization. I use that for my CAD software, games that dont run under linux and Microsoft office
This allows me to only use Windows that 10% of the time I need my software and be using linux for all other stuff.
Only issue is that it requires some effort to get it going and some additional hardware if you want to run both at the same time.
Nice, i will take a look at this. With virtualization are both OS able to share files/ access the same files?
Kind of... You usually can mount a directory or similar from the Host machines (Linux in this case) on the Guest (windows in this case). It uses a virtual fs so it doesn't matter the filesystem used on the host or similar. That said due this is slower than direct use of files.
Alternative even if that wasn't a thing you could always do a network share in SMB or similar and as long as they have access to network it would work too.
Not by default, but can be set up without much PITA.
You have a W10 license, so just run up a VM, and install your software in that. Whilst it will be marginally slower, it will be 100% compatible and run on your host OS (this is not good for gaming in general, but if the VM software you use supports passthrough, mainly for GPU, then its pretty negligible).
Keep the Win10 VM off the WAN, and who cares how out of date it is and lacking in security updates.
Lots of people suggesting VM, but you can also consider dual boot.
I use Linux for everything except for the very few things were I can't (specific games for example). That way you have the best of both worlds.
I even have it set up in different drives and use the MOBO boot menu to choose, so no worries about Windows breaking stuff
Your PC will soon be be junk if you do not want to try out Linux.
I often play old games that have compatibility issues with windows 10. Most recently FEAR required a .dll from a site for a stable framerate.
People keep saying "gaming works" on Linux but are they talking about modern games? Do old games "just work?" I have very little free time to fart about with fixing too many issues with an old game. How well does this stuff work?
The real problem is when Steam drops support on W10...
Runs great in Linux Mint
The problems is the games under it. Most notably game with anti-cheat and Oculus Rift desktop games. Does the Oculus client, revive and games work under linux?
A surprising amount of games support linux anti-cheat now: https://areweanticheatyet.com
Oculus does not work, but that's expected for a Facebook product... Valve Index and HTC Vive work pretty good. I've personally played 5-10 VR games on linux with an Index I borrowed from a friend
Oh fuck Facebook. I haven't given them a cent. But there is no denying the amazing game studios they bought out for exclusives. Such as Ready at Dawn's Lone Echo. One of the best VR games period. I think I'll try to virtualize that specific use case and use linux for more gaming.
I will never buy a Quest. I am currently running first gen HTC Vive and my only savoir is the Valve Decard. Hang on gotta hit the copium.
That petition and a nickel is worth about 5 cents. Go get a better OS.
Which is almost anything else at this point.
That just means more cheap, used hardware available for us Linux users in a couple years.
...and then a complete absence of it a few years after that, once Microsoft finally finishes boiling the frog to cryptographically lock new hardware to run only Windows.
... until the EU and maybe even the US rolls around and slaps Microsoft with an antitrust lawsuit. Sounds like a best case scenario :D
Wait I have a Windows 8 computer which stills works fine?
Unfortunately most users will just keep using 10 even after security patches are no longer released. Eventually they'll just get new hardware. Eventually.
At this point I'm mainly still on Windows because it is the easiest thing to do - I know how to use it and it is already installed on all my PCs. At least 3 of my PCs are eligible to upgrade to Win11 (2 are not), but I have no plans to ever upgrade. So, when security updates stop, that will be my motivation to give Linux another try.
Give me back my custom taskbar location and then we'll talk.
Yeah there's so much missing in Win11 that they straight up haven't delivered yet, it's infuriating. Feels like a beta version. It's incomplete.
Does windows 11 still require secure boot?
well, I guess I am staying with windows 10
These people... "please, let me continue being a Microsoft slave!".
Free yourselves and install Linux.
I'm so sick of hearing this and I use Linux on a daily basis
Installing Linux for us nerds is just something we know how to do. Asking a computer "normie" (which is, basically everyone else) to change their operating system is just not happening.
I couldn't imagine trying to step my mum through installing Linux if I stood next to her, and I wouldn't class her as stupid.
I maintain that for Linux to obtain mass adoption it either needs to be preinstalled or make it no different to install than a regular Windows program (which is damn near impossible).
I'd consider myself a nerd but still prefer Windows.
Some years ago I was in a Vocational college for IT and I had to deal with Ubuntu, Debian and Opensuse. I hated every second of it. I also had to deal with iMacs but that's another story.
I'm a computer nerd. I do tech support for everyone in the family. I keep trying Linux intermittently and end up uninstalling it and find I can't use it as a daily driver. Although the day I will be able to use it is getting closer. The Steam Deck is helping with this. Also Chat GPT is great for finding solutions for things that either require trawling though tons of online forums or getting shamed for asking.
I use Linux frequently but mostly to run network services and automation- stuff that doesn’t require day to day interaction or has its own web gui.
As far as my desktop go to it’s windows because I can boot it up, install a bunch of shit I know will work out of the box, and start working. I could do that with Linux too but it would take quite a bit of effort to maintain.
I currently run Linux on a secondary computer that I mainly use for streaming media while I work from home. Anything in the web browser is great in Linux, especially because I don't feel the age of my several almost 10 year old computers on Linux the way I do on Windows.
For example, I've got an old laptop with a third gen mobile i5, back when 2 cores/4 threads was common on those. It was running Ubuntu for the longest time and it was pretty jarring how slow it was when I tossed windows on there because i thought the laptop was still fine performance-wise
I had this same issue and what helped was go for a dual boot with windows and slowly learn how to customize things so that I can be as productive as before.
Also, steam electron helped a lot with this transition, as I didn't have excuses to not change partitions between gaming and working/studying
My opinion on Linux is that it's (only) good for lightweight computing / mobile computing.
Such as Rasperry pis and Android devices.
Just follow the handy dandy Microsoft guide to installing Linux https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/linux/install
But seriously. Yes, it's true that installing a new OS is a level of effort the average person is unlikely to want to put in. But they're going to have to start because I believe the situation this Windows monopoly is causing is far worse than it appears on the surface.
It's estimated that around half of PCs in the world won't be able to run Windows 11 https://www.computerworld.com/article/3657628/more-than-half-of-pcs-cant-upgrade-to-windows-11-report.html
Sure, a good chunk of those machines probably can't even run Windows 10. They'll still be on earlier versions of Windows, even going back as far as XP in some cases.
Because of the "latest Windows" benchmark PCs depreciate only slightly slower than bananas. Part of the reason I got into Linux as a young and poor nerd was because it could run on much older and significantly cheaper hardware. But most people and organisations aren't going to bother trying to resell their computers for the measly sum they'd get when they bite the bullet and upgrade, adding millions of still perfectly usable machines to the ever building toxic soup of e-waste and using more resources than necessary when creating new Windows compatible devices.
On top of that those who are unable or unwilling to upgrade end up with an OS full of more holes than swiss cheese that diminishes cyber security for everyone.
At this point, not switching to Linux (which is really the only viable Windows alternative) and getting the longest lifespan possible out of your hardware in a safe way is frankly irresponsible.
I think this is ultimately Microsoft being irresponsible, because most people will either stick with the then insecure Windows 10, or just buy a new device that can take Windows 11. Most would rather do either of those than install Linux, if they even know about Linux at all.
It's just wild to me how BSD has basically entirely fallen off the map. Back when I first was farting around with Linux the server marketshare was pretty evenly distributed between Linux, BSD and Windows Server, then it was half Linux, and now Linux simply dominates the server space
Yea I haven't heard of companies using BSD at all these days and it isn't really suitable for desktop use. But I'm interested to see if Haiku progresses to be a good desktop Linux alternative https://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq/
I'm really excited to see where Serenity OS goes
https://serenityos.org/
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/not-a-linux-distro-review-serenityos-is-a-unix-y-love-letter-to-the-90s/
Fascinating stuff. Think I'd prefer using this over most of the "alternative" OS that are about. But after reading more about this and Haiku I'm starting to think things like a modern web browser and video/ audio editing tools are probably going to keep me off them both for a long time at least.
The installation has always been easy enough for me, but what I struggle with is updating drivers and installing new software. Granted, I'm not the brightest bulb in the box, so there's that. I did really like the insane variety of distros and all the needs they cater to. Like if there's something specific you need your OS to specialize in, there's probably a Linux distro for it.
Nah fam, mint's a gamechanger
I switched from Win 10 to Ubuntu this year. The Ubuntu installer was easy as hell. I'd argue easier than windows.
It got tricky when I needed the non-latest CUDA drivers for pytorch fun, but most folks won't be doing development.
Also, most folks don't install windows. They'll give it to their nerd nephew or their local Compu-Hut.
My biggest gripe is Snaps can make for confusing permission bullshit when saving files or using the clipboard, but this isnt a debate about snaps... the installer is great
Most people don't install windows or ask a family member or friend to do it for them, they buy a device that has windows already on it. The number of people who put windows on a device themselves is a miniscule fraction of windows users
You're right. Over the years, I've installed various kinds of Windows for relatives, and various Linux distros for myself and my wife. I've found, particularly in recent years, Linux is easier to install and more straightforward. Yeah, I'm an experienced user, so it's fairly easy for me and not intimidating, but I can't see a Linux installation as more difficult to install compared to Windows.
Most users, as you say, don't install an OS themselves, which applies to both Windows, Mac and Linux.
I disagree with this because for 20 years both the Ubuntu and Debian GUI installer ran like a practical joke from hell. Even Linus himself said he couldn't get it to work. Only Debian really improved while Ubuntu continues to somehow explode every time I try it
Every other distro besides hardcore ones like Gentoo and Arch have pretty basic installers that greatly outshine the crappy windows 8/10/11 setup screen.
Fedora has an auto installer tool so all you really need is a USB and not some magic funky thing called rufus.
There's even entire DE setups dedicated to looking and functioning exactly like windows to the point that the average person wouldn't even recognize nor care to know the difference.
Yes actually getting someone to replace an OS is hard no matter how easy you make it because it involves doing something unknown or new. But by the same token, we used to run DOS and install windows from floppy disks like it was no big deal back before windows owned the desktop market. Talk to anyone who was a college student in the 90s and they'll probably recognize the word UNIX, even in unrelated non CS fields.
Installing Linux has been painless for over a decade, its as easy as clicking next. You're telling me Windows users can handle all the stupid bullshit Microsoft throws at them, but a couple different icons and a different name is really gonna stop them from understanding the basic desktop metaphor that has been in use since the 90s?
They weren't talking about using linux, they meant installing it. They were referring to downloading a disk image, writing it to a flashdrive such that it's bootable, making sure your bios is set to let you boot from removable media, pressing the right key for your device to select the boot media, picking the flash drive, and then navigating the installation interface.
There are definitely places where I see folks getting stuck in that process if they're not a technical user and/or familiar with linux
I wish, but multiple Laptops with unavailable drivers, barely working trackpads, sleep issues and a few other annoyances tell me it isn't always as easy.
I haven't found many systems that Windows doesn't run
It's actually not a big lift for "normies", and I'm considering switching my parents to Linux after Win10 support ends. They don't really know how to use Windows, so I just have to pre-install a Linux that looks similar (probably Mint) and then put Firefox, Libre Office and VLC shortcuts in the same place they expect. As long as Firefox still can get them to youtube and facebook, it doesn't really matter what the rest of the OS can do. I'll have to find an alternative remote support solution though.
https://github.com/hakuna-m/wubiuefi
How is this going to help his mom install linux?
Did you open the page? It answers your question. And if it doesn't then this video will https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7CqDCw8mPQ
TL;DR (even if you'd get it in 3 minutes) it makes installing ubuntu as easy as installing an application on windows.
Do you really think someone's mom is going to go through this?
Look at this bro, you don't even have to configure anything. Just double click on the installer, click install, and follow instructions. Are you seriously saying installing microsoft office is easier to install than this? How did somebody's mom ever install software on windows if they can't use an installation wizard?
Also, if an installation wizard is too hard, how will you even understand the difference between windows 10 and windows 11? How would you even understand what the petition is about? Do you really think somebody with the capacity to be worried about windows 11 or 12 would not be able to click "install" and hit "next" a few times?
Always moving the goal posts. First it has to be easier to install, then when it's made literally the same process as any other program on windows it's "too hard".
My 11 year old son does his homework and research on Linux Mint. After that, he sometimes plays some Minecraft or Valheim with his friends or does some drawings on his graphics tablet and listens to music or audio drama on Deezer. What else does your mom, that she cannot use Linux Mint?
That's a shitty response.
It's not that simple for gamers.
What do you mean bro? Linux runs a shit ton of games and some even better than windows.
It depends on the type of games you play. If you're more like me and you enjoy playing single-player games, then yeah you're all set. If all you play is Valorant and Fortnite and PUBG and League of Legends, you're much more likely to have a hard time. Anticheats are a special kind of evil.
I thought not supporting Windows rootkits is a positive for Linux?
BTW, LoL is playable!
League is playable most of the time but the launcher frequently breaks and there tend to be issues in-game, I've randomly had sound just straight up not work, and it tends to require a custom build of wine. It's far from the most playable gaming experience. There are much better gaming experiences to be had on Linux.
The problem lies with the games that don't run well. I love Linux as much as the next guy and I hope to see better support in the future.
Are you stuck in 2015?
I check in every now and then. It is still not to the standards that I want.
My fiancée's games all run much better on Debian (with KDE) than on Windows.
That is great for your fiancée! Some of my games don't, unfortunately.
Not until game companies embrace Proton(-GE) and Steam Deck.
The only modern games I've ever had issues with were a few select DX12 games (and that's due to my GPU). Outside of that, some old games outside of Steam game me trouble, but that's usually just a matter of fiddling with some settings in Lutris. Even then, those are usually games that also have trouble on modern Windows versions, and they often require less tweaking on Linux to get them running.
Modern DX12 games and older games are my jam. Besides, Star Citizen...
Or anyone reliant on Office for their job
It's a cloud service now, so fully usable via the browser.
Mostly, last I tried Browser only about 6 months back it was still missing features that standard office apps had.
ok
K
thanks
bye
Dude I still have a windows 7 up and running.
Its gonna be exciting to see penguins outside windows.
Wait windows 10 was not junk before? Since when?
I think you're probably in the minority on this one. It was generally accepted that Win10 was pretty good.
It was regarded as good in the beginning, at least in comparison to Windows 8. In the beginning it ran leaner than Win7
Then update after update it got more and more bloated and unstable, more crammed with ads, etc. Windows 10 aged very poorly imo.
Windows 10 LTSC for the win
I know I'm the weird one but I liked 8 and Vista more than 7.
I still had plenty of frustrations with it. I ended up switching to Linux finally last year when it became clear Microsoft was going to force my pc to update to 11.
I mean, when you compare it to Windows 11...
I really wish I could just switch to Linux but certain programs I have for school don't have a Linux version, as well as my art program that I laid for the license.
VM/WINE?
I wish wine would work and as for running a vm it would be a pain on my shitty laptop. My best sollution would just be to get more torage but I a broke bch
if vanilla wine doesn't work, you might want to try adding it to steam as a non-steam game and running it with proton. it's no guarantee, but i've found that proton sometimes works better for some programs that don't work properly with wine.
God damn it, my dads computer is very old actually and he is running windows 10. There is one program which is not available for Linux which he uses to access his CCTV cameras so moving him to Linux might be difficult because of that.
(I’m EXTREMELY green with Linux)
Could it be run inside of a windows VM?
My dad lives in Germany and I do in Korea. The really good thing about Linux is that it's easy to remotely administrate it. The bad part is that we live in very different time zones so if something doesn't work it would take a lot of time before we both have time at the same time so I can show him how to do things.
Have you tried running the CCTV software in Wine? It doesn't sound like it's likely to be a particularly complicated bit of software, so hopefully Wine will have it running with a couple of clicks.
Why the fuck does that petition site even have a "Zip/Postal Code" box when it doesn't seem to allow postal codes?
I miss vista
I miss windows 2000 pro
With is default blank admin password, ahh these were the days.
But windows ME, that’s where it was at!! /s
I’m sure this will get a few people worked up, but the moment Mac OS X came out I switched everything to Mac. And no, Justin Long didn’t convince me ;) I was like, “*NIX like OS with a decent GUI?!” Count me in.
@tsonfeir @confusedwiseman I did something similar, when I gained the right to vote on what my computers would run. Then there came backward compatibility issues, purchased from AppStore programs stopped working, 3rd party programs like Safari (checks some notes..), make it in house programs, stopped working etc. I switched Mac Mini almost immediately to a Linux. Air unfortunately had HW incompatibilities like hinge and camera, so it stayed with Mac OS till it managed to bust charge controller.
You soon might want to install Linux and get a nice computer.
Why is that a "big worry"? Windows 10 was released in 2015. So 2025 would be over 10 years of support. That's a more than valid amount of time to support an OS.
Hell, I'm still running windows 7 on a machine. 10 is my newest and I just installed that a couplemonths ago.
I recently learned there are unpatched vulnerabilities in Paint 3D in versions of Windows 10. Christ knows what they’ve neglected to patch on Windows 7.
Have you tried a Linux desktop distribution on that windows 7 box? I can’t imagine you’re gaming on it.
Nope. Got too much it's used for to spend the days and days it would take me to rebuild it, then fight through the headache of setting up Linux, and finding replacements for everying it does.
This is the barrier Linux acolytes just can't understand. I have decades of experience, was working in IT before Linux existed. Had my Unix classes in college. And I can't be bothered, I've got other stuff to do. And I know the risks I'm dealing with.
Now let's ask a regular user. They see no advantage and lots of headache to switch.
For the love of god I hope that isn't connected to any network
It is. It's fine. Security isn't a single layer.
No it's not fine lmao
My music box is win7. Only reason it doesn't run on a Linux distro is the shitty lack of good audio under the hood of linux, and the annoyances of getting musicbee working right.
It's the only thing keeping anything of mine on windows. Wellllll, I did set up my laptop dual boot, and it came with 10 pro, but I haven't actually booted into that in ages.
And yes, for whoever is thinking "I hope that win 7 box is air gapped", it is. Transfers are from an external hdd.
Yeah, it's acceptable, but it still suffers in comparison to either the usual options on windows, or even the standard android audio. Can't touch a solid dedicated DAC, though not much can, in truth.
Most people will not stay with 10.
People still running insecure win7 shitboxes are the smallest minority i can imagine. Most people already upgraded to 11 as its free.
I'll just go back to Windows 7. Lack of security updates don't mean much if even the malicious stuff has moved on to 10/11.
I already installed Linux on my Surface.
reactOS. Go check it out and see whether it'll work for you NOW vs Linux later.
ReactOS is horribly unstable and glitchy on real hardware. Any linux distro with wine is a much better and reliable experience.
Also wasn't it backed by the russian government?