Evidence that lemmy.ml weaponizes rule 1 to censor criticism of russia and china
The administration of lemmy.ml routinely abuses its rule 1 anti-bigotry policy to conduct political censorship, deleting documented facts regarding the ukraine invasion, holodomor, and xinjiang abuses under false pretexts of imperialist propaganda, misinformation, and nazism while leaving pro-Kremlin talking points untouched.
Verifiable public moderation logs prove this systemic shielding of state propaganda, down to moderators inverting standard geopolitical context, such as noting that fringe extremist units do not make an entire democratic nation fascist, to ban dissenters under the explicit excuse of being a Nazi.
https://lemmy.ml/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=25800386 and https://lemmy.world/modlog/446?page=1&actionType=All&userId=20355358.
The Europe community moderator (https://lemmy.world/u/[email protected]), who focuses exclusively on criticizing the West and never Russia or China, banned me as a Nazi.
I decided to block the lemmy.ml instance entirely to avoid any further interaction.
I see that there are dozens of relevant posts; you can find the relevant report posts here
- https://lemmy.world/post/16211417
- https://lemmy.world/post/5697017
- https://lemmy.world/post/50302822
- https://lemmy.world/post/13238608
- https://lemmy.world/post/43978041
Log screenshots
360 replies
The comments in this post are turning nasty and I’ve already banned two users for their behavior. Locked.
You must be new around here. This is old news and a reason a lot of places block ml
It's important to document their behavior anyway, because not al places block ml.
I knew that lemmy.ml is tankies, but removing comments/posts that don't serve their agenda is new to me.
In large part that is what the word "tankie" means - denial of reality, instead substituting their own, which can only be done inside of a controlled echo chamber. Tankie is no way is synonymous with Communist.
Think MAGA but on the left - it's otherwise identical in terms of behaviors, merely different talking points.
You may find this illustrative:
It's pro-authoritarian. That means this control is not really a contradiction. They say they're leftist, but I think it'd be hard to actually justify that based on the groups they support. Russia isn't leftist. The USSR may have been, but it's long gone. Russia is anti-LGBT+ and doesn't protect workers. It's an oligarchy.
There are only two consistent things they follow. They're pro-authoritarian and anti-west.
404 not found
Here let me help
Images barely working, ascii art, threaded structure, federation...
close enough, welcome back usenet.
Thanks. I still have no idea what I'm looking at though. A left-right scale of some kind - is it just randomly drawn lines in the classic political compass?
It is labeled “stethoscope theory” and the image is just regular horseshoe theory, but with “far left” replaced by Tankies and moved to its own special branch that continues off to the left instead of circling back around.
Thank you! That at least gave me enough context to find this image (let's see if it works)
They are not really leftist. They call themselves that, but they support the authoritarian oligarchy of Russia. That's not what a leftist would do. They are anti-western and pro-authoritarian, and that's about it.
Tankeis are not leftists.
I never paid attention to the word until I came to Kbin and subsequently Lemmy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie says:
Practically speaking, tankies are pro-fascist and pro-genocide, plus individual (literal) murders, so long as it is done by their favored in-groups (e.g. Russian aggression vs. Ukraine portrayed instead as poor whittle russia forced to defend itself, whoopsie), and opposed to anything (even outright socialism) when done by their opposed out-groups - chiefly Western Civilization.
So their cries of "Death to the USA" are meant literally, and also inclusive of other NATO states.
Source: go visit Lemmy.ml, which unlike most other instances by default without being logged in shows only Local rather than Global content, and see for yourself, it should only take a couple of minutes to find such evidence. Or possibly better yet lemmygrad.ml, except that most instances actually defederate from that one whereas almost none defederate from Lemmy.ml.
One of my first experiences in the Fediverse was mentioning the Uyghur genocide and having my comment promptly removed by the .ml admins. They've been doing this all the time.
imagine you mentioned the tianamin massacre, it would get thier panties in a wad.
When I first got on here I waded into a thread praising north korea and got so many downvotes for not knowing how awesome the Kim regime is. Fucking tankies man
It's a rite of passage here 😁
A lot of instances are curated, they're the supreme mods after all. Some delay your posts until they can curate them, and some just remove them. It's the way it be.
This isn't said and understood enough. Instances on the Fediverse aren't free-for-all, apolitical places without ideology. Some try to be (with varying success) but being active in the Fediverse and especially running an instance is in itself a fairly ideological and political act. So chances are instances reflect their owners' ideology. And that is great because one has places to be if an instance doesn't suit them, unlike corpo platdorms where one ideology drives most of them.
The only thing that bugs me about it is that the largest instances can control what most people see.
True. It's definitely not a perfect, problem-solved thing. Merely an (significant?) improvement from the corporate status quo.
The great thing about lemmy's design is that that's not really true. I'm seeing this criticism of .ml despite being on .ml, because most of the posts that I see on lemmy are not on my home instance. At least half the time, I'm having discussions outside of my "home turf."
When you have a space that agrees on certain base assumptions, it becomes easier to have more in depth and thoughtful discussions, because you don't have to focus on just proving or advocating for those basic assumptions over and over again, and watching every word you say to make sure it can't be twisted or misinterpreted to paint you in a negative light. By contrast, sharing a space with ideological opponents often means people tend to dig in and just make snipes at each other, everybody's just grandstanding and trying to get owns in, and the level of discussion is brought down to name-calling and accusations.
At the same time, yes, echo chambers are a concern. If you're never exposed to opposing viewpoints, obviously that's not great either. We can see that happen on any number of subreddits. And if we were on different subreddits instead of on different instances, I wouldn't be seeing this criticism, and you wouldn't be seeing my response to it.
The way the fediverse is designed inherently addresses both of those concerns. You can have a space where the discussions assume a shared ideology allowing for in depth discussions, but then you're also federated with other spaces with different shared assumptions. The "tankie" creators of lemmy designed it this way on purpose, for that reason. To allow minority views (including but not limited to their own) to have spaces for discussion, without becoming isolated. To allow for higher level discussions with shared assumptions while also allowing for interactions between groups with different assumptions.
This is why all this hand-wringing over .ml's censorship is kind of silly. Because people on .ml are constantly seeing content from other instances with completely different policies, and that is not in spite of what the .ml's admins want, they literally designed it that way on purpose.
The only censorship that really matters on the fediverse is defederation.
and those other instances can also moderate and delete comments and posts for all other instances unless archived or crossposted. If a lemmy.world mod deletes a comment in a lemmy.world post, I won't be able to see it from over here in db0
Tbf this is true for all instances - it is simply how the ActivityPub Protocol works. The home instance "owns" the content, so if e.g. a Lemmy.world user submits a post to a community on Lemmy.ml, then other LW users won't be able to see it if it gets removed, but the same is true vice versa if a ML user submits a post to a community located on LW.
Why are you writing tankie in quotes?
Because I disagree with the term. The admins are not "tankies," they are Marxist-Leninists.
What makes someone a "tankie" is that they "defend" certain states. In practice, "defending" often includes just refuting misinformation, for example, if I refute that "everyone in North Korea gets the same haircut" then I'm "defending" it and therefore a "tankie." It can also mean acknowledging accomplishments, saying any good thing about any socialist state, like, "Cuba had a very successful literacy program," which is just an objective historical fact. "Tankie" is supposed to mean someone who blindly supports everything a socialist state has ever done, in practice, it means someone who supports anything a socialist state has ever done.
Before it was "tankie" it was "pinko," and before that "red." That kind of red scare bullshit has allowed blatant misinformation to run rampant, because even rational people avoid pushing back on it for fear of being labelled a "tankie." As stories about how all communists eat babies or whatnot run rampant, it has in turn hurt the reputation of both leftists and liberals, because it literally doesn't matter how hard you try to distance yourself from the far-left, you'll still get associated with it. Joe Biden got called a communist for Christ's sake. To put it another way:
That is why I put "tankie" in quotes.
Literally nobody has ever claimed that users on Lemmy.ml are not allowed to see content on other instances - this is not merely a strawman argument but an absolutely ridiculous one.
Please don't bother to reply to this if this is the level of content that your messages will contain.
For anyone else that is curious, the complaint is about the lack of transparency in describing what content is vs. is not allowed - a community of people discussing FOSS comes nowhere close to mentioning that you are not allowed to come close to criticizing Russia, China, or North Korea - e.g. it is not allowed to state that Ukraine is not the aggressor and that rather Russia is, or to state that Uyghurs are being killed by China.
I really really really really really really really really wish that Lemmy would implement a true instance block so that I did not have to spend time reading such comments as this. But for some reason that option is denied to me. Go figure.
It's not really a strawman in that I never claimed anyone said it. It's just that people talk about "censorship" and "echo chambers" and "they have to remove things to keep their users brainwashed" or whatever nonsense, ignoring the fact that the structure of the fediverse, as designed by the .ml admins, makes that more or less impossible.
OK, fair enough, they could afford to clarify the rules somewhat. But I don't really consider that a huge deal. I've been banned from communities on .world for things that aren't enumerated in the rules too. I don't see why rules have to cover every possible thing.
This. Just imagine if all of Lemmy was like one instance or another. The whole point of the fediverse is that there can be multiple instances, and you can just gravitate towards the ones that align with your own views.
Except it would be nice if the instances were honest about their rules, or at least that they would be described somewhere written down, rather than people having to continually find out the hard way (such as OP).
They’ve always done this. “Rule 1” Is pretty much a .ml meme catch all for “you aren’t allowed to use facts here. Agree or be removed”
What part of "tankies" do you not understand?
they have been doing that, maybe you dont visit thier posts often. hexbear, lemmygrad, and ml are all super tankies. others ones you may want to avoid is dbzero, or equivalent, startrek website comm, and some of blahj ones.
LOL, startrek.website? IIRC the whole hubbub about them was that they defederated from dbzer0 in the first place.
You might be thinking of lemmygrad?
Im glad youre taking the steps to enjoy lemmy your way. Take care stranger.
It’s good to have this documented, thanks. It’s one thing for everyone to “know” they’re Tankies, it’s another to have compiled evidence and A/B examples like this to point to.
There used to be several of such posts, in this very community iirc, though most ended up being removed for whatever reason, sometimes after being locked for toxicity in the comment section.
Particularly when those "try a Threadiverse instance at 'random'" websites send people to Lemmy.ml (the main one sends people to either Lemmy.ml or hexbear.net ~90% of the time - btw that is not hyperbole, try it and see), people who joined here truly will not be made aware until after they arrive and almost inevitably find out the hard way.
I believe this is the secondary reason (after overall lack of content) that Lemmy's active user community is not growing even as Reddit continues to degrade.
This is the main reason we have to get a fork up to feature parity with all the major clients. I don't want to recommend Lemmy any more, I want to recommend some other threadiverse alternative that does the same thing.
Piefed?
And mbin. They have like 4 or 5 servers accepting new people. I think it's good to have multiple different softwares going on the fediverse.
https://piefed.social/
PieFed is leagues ahead of Lemmy at this point. The main thing that it lacks iirc is a great search function like Lemmy has. Mind you, third-party app support is minimal, but that's an issue with each one of those choosing whether or how fast to catch up, which will never end - the same as they do for Lemmy's features also.
Unfortunately PieFed by default also shadow-censors people's contributions, plus other anti-social media type features, which doesn't affect someone running their own instance (for that purpose PieFed is unquestionably far superior) but does affect anyone posting to communities located on an instance running PieFed where that opt-out feature is left enabled - including users currently on Lemmy, Mbin, Mastodon, Friendica, nodeBB, etc. Many planned migrations - both user accounts and whole communities - were cancelled as a result.
Therefore a new fork was born - not of Lemmy but of PieFed - called PyLova. Last I checked it has even more features than PieFed, though PieFed recently borrowed many (though not all) of them.
Lemmy, as far as the bleeding edge of new features is concerned, has been left behind in the dust, and seems unlikely to ever catch up (writing in the Rust language I hear is quite slow). And PieFed and even more PyLova are running circles around it.
There's also Mbin, which few people use except those who want to access both threaded conversations and user microblogging style content from the same account on the Fediverse.
Piefed still can't show me my upvoted and down voted content on voyager and Alexandrite. I need to test this on pylova.
Voyager offers only beta, rudimentary support for instances running PieFed, and therefore PyLova as well. In general, third-party app support for PieFed is rather poor imho - see https://piefed.social/community/fediverse/wiki/piefed-app.
Unfortunately I just can't migrate until it's solved. Why don't they just keep compatibility with Lemmy for these API's?
I have no idea - you could ask for its status in the PieFed Meta community.
Just use piefed
Can't see my upvotes and downvotes on alexandrite and voyager with piefed
Recommend some instance that defederates the Tankie Triad. Problem solved?
And beside that, maybe choose an instance that is running PieFed, PyLova or mBin?
Piefed is not without it's issues (mainly that rimu has the social skills of a grapefruit) but it's wild how violently .ml users hate it. I know they're from the dev instance so some bias is understandable, but holy cow some of the shit that gets made up to scare people away from it is absurd.
I feel the mbin devs must be watching the shitshow from within a popcorn filled bunker, just praying nobody remembers they exist long enough to drag them into it.
Yeah the vast majority of criticism is completely made-up, and even after it was proven to be falsehoods nobody seemed to recant (that I saw anyway). Instead, people continue to point to the debunked conspiracy theories despite the months and months that have passed since then. It really underscores the point about how an echo chamber functions - facts truly do not matter in the slightest to some people.
And it's especially odd given how PieFed has more recently shot itself in the foot by shadow-censoring offered upvotes, but people still cite the long-debunked conspiracy theories rather than such an actual reason for criticism of the software.
Tribal. Sad(ge). Bad.
There are no major Lemmy instances that defederate from Lemmy.ml in particular.
Lemmy.zip comes the closest, not fully defederating but something similar. I forget if programming.dev does similarly as well. (Edit: ah, I forgot - only 2 of the 3 tankie triad instances are thus blocked by default, so here too there are zero major instances that block Lemmy.ml in particular.)
There's also PieFed.zip by the same excellent admin team as Lemmy.zip. So Lemmy.zip and PieFed.zip are excellent general-purpose recommendations to offer to people. (Edit: despite how they don't block the triad - but at least PieFed.zip allows individual users to do so, if they wish. And after they figure out how, and that there is a need for such, which nobody it seems will officially recommend to them.)
On piefed.zip a new user has hexbear, grad and lemmynsfw put in their account filter. And the welcome DM that is being sent includes info that we do this and how to manage account filters. So as long as the new users read the DM, they from the start have the info how to block instances for themselves
We don't defederate often. I think it has been the selling point for some of our users. But PieFed offers much better blocking (compared to Lemmy at the time when I migrated), so we can have an instance for both - those who want everything, and those who don't
And btw, effectively speaking we don't do vote quota on PieFed.zip
You would think right? Unfortunately their "problem" won't be solved till everyone's block list looks exactly like theirs. Who is censoring who again?
How come?
A block allows the tankies to see the normal person's comments and to reply to they. The only effect of a block is that you won't know someone has replied to your comment and can badmouth you freely. So yeah, regarding blocks you are right.
But a defederation works differently. Users of a defederated instance do not see the comments on the otger side of the breakage at all, and therefore cannot troll under them either. If your instance fully defederates from the trolls, you really do get a better experience. There's no need for everyone to defederate for defederation to benefit the instance's users.
I don't want Lemmy to be in the conversation at all. I want to just be able to recommend Pylova or Piefed
Was anyone hiding being a "tankie"? I mean I don't really use the term I just call it Marxist-Leninist but if that's what you want to call it I'm fine with that. I mean I'm clearly not trying to hide my political views if you look at my username. Not sure what you needed "evidence" for. But more power to ya i guess.
I mean, you shouldn’t. “XiJinpingStanAccount” is a glorious handle. I salute you, comrade.
lol thanks
XiJinpingStanAccount honestly sounds like a parody handle, I'd expect the likelyhood of such a user to actually favour Xi Jinping rather low.
Personally I don't understand why we'd want less democracy, instead of more of it. Citizens assemblies is the logical move, for anyone wanting more power to the people - But I guess my views are closer to anarchist movements than anything, I don't want to alter everything. I just want to kill intergenerational wealth.
Well it's sort of a parody but the other way. I am parodying stan accounts by making one about Xi Jinping, who I do like, and who is not the typical recipient of a stan account. Also, speaking about democracy being 'more' or 'less' is odd. I think it's impossible to do so. Because nobody can agree on what makes things more or less democratic. For example, I think China is more democratic than the US. Not less. Why? Because my metric for the level of 'democracy' in a nation is how closely that nations policies match the will of its people and how happy the people are with its policies. Others may say what makes something more democratic is simply more chances to vote on things. Or perhaps they would say the less seperation from the final decision the better. (direct vs representative democracy). So, like I said, a hard thing to discuss without causing confusion by using the same words to mean different things.
Both countries are a clusterfuck from a democratic/people decides perspective. The way both countries are ruled is quite similar. They're two sides of the same coin.
This is really hard to gauge for China specifically, because there's as you noted no electorally elected officials.
Furthermore it's an authoritarian leadership, known to punish dissidents. It's a very complex topic to go into who benefits and who don't, from the current Chinese policies. Chinas economy is as much, if not more, dependent on gig labour as the US is. The gig labourers are not in better conditions in China, than they are in the US.
It's not unheard of that parents pay for their adult children's medicine, because the only income their child could get was from a poorly paid delivery gig.
There's an issue globally with the elites having grown more greedy, especially in the past four decades. I think one of US, UK, China or Russia is going to see their elite lose power and fall to a popular uprising. Before any other oligarchical society, at which all oligarchs are going to give crumbs back to the people.
Just like European royal houses gave more wealth and power to their commoners as a response to the French revolution.
As I noted? Not only did I not say this it's not true? China has elections...
哈哈哈哈哈哈美国人。。。；-；
People need to start realizing that users like you are flamebaiting to get banned and then make hate threads about .ml
You spout right wing propaganda while insulting users and then whine about "tankies" when you get banned.
Some of the .ml users be lying though.
I mean. You can also just go to their front page and read the "about this instance" paragraph where they clarify that they support a specific political ideology and will not tolerate dissent.
They explicitly built a walled garden. Don't be surprised they maintain the walls. There are other instances.
Not only that but they explicitly said years ago that they WANTED someone to go make a liberal instance for liberals to use and do their own thing. Which is what happened. Yet people continue to throw a fit that .ml maintains its policies. The entire point of lemmy is that you can choose the instance that works best for you! The entire reason many of the original people came to lemmy was that reddit banned Marxist-Leninist (what you would call "tankie") communities. And even many just vaguely leftist spaces. So people made their own thing where no one person controls what is allowed and what isn't. That's what federation is all about. If you don't like that there are instances that disagree with you on a fundamental level and ban you for your opinions then you don't actually understand what the point of federation is to begin with. I mean ML is in the name. What did you expect?
(edit to clarify I'm asking the OP not the commenter I am agreeing with the commenter.)
What is lemmy.ml?
The problem is that it’s the developers’ instance and they promote it as a default general use instance and not a explicit political ideological instance so it has a significant portion of people just trying to join the network.
I would recommend someone looking to join the threadiverse to use piefed over Lemmy for that reason (of course piefed has its own problematic “features” with regards to default mute lists and transparency)
Why is it a problem? Literally every single major social media platform has an ideological slant. Twitter (X) is the nazi one, reddit is the like omega liberal vote blue no matter who one, facebook is mindless reaction, etc. If lemmy.world was considered the "default" instance I could say the same thing about it being different than my own political beliefs.
I think the problem is that people can't handle seeing places they aren't welcome anymore. Marxist-Leninists are allowed to have their own spaces, and do not have to cater to other peoples views. There is ALWAYS going to be a dominant ideology and a set of rules on each instance. You don't agree with the ones lemmy.ml has. That's okay.
Algorithmic social media silos people into their little boxes where they only see what they want to see. People are so used to that now that imo they've forgotten how to handle being faced with a place/group of people who just fundamentally disagree with them, and are not open to hearing what they have to say. Yet that is just reality. People need to learn to deal the fact those places and those people exist.
In my experience it's not an explicit political ideological instance. I'm there all the time and never get called anything because I think this or that, except when I'm outside of ML, where I get "tankie" a lot.
Anyone who uses "tankies" unironically is a braindead basement dweller keyboard warrior who has zero critical thinking skills.
Supporting the heavily anti LGBTQ imperialist state of Russia is not liberal.
Anyone who supports Russia is explicitly anti LGBTQ. You cannot be pro LGBTQ whilst supporting and defending a fascist government that treads on LGBTQ rights.
Neither is it liberal to claim that supporting the existence of Jews, whilst explicitly denouncing the genocide state of israel is a "zionist stance", which geneve_convenience, the mod mentioned in this post literally verbatim did, and then banned someone over.
Super liberal, basically stating that Jews as a people, regardless of any individuals opinion, don't deserve to exist, just because many of them are zionist. By that logic members of every major religion, as well as every single cis white male don't deserve the right to exist as a people.
If you knew .ml, you would have known that they ain't so solid on being labelled as liberals lmao.
My reply makes plenty of sense if you know how to read. I didn't call .ml liberal. Quite the opposite actually.
Not from Voyager iirc, which also iirc is by far the most used third party app? Also, for multiple years that what is Lemmy.ml link did not work - it pointed to a post, which I think a later version of Lemmy.ml allowed communities to be made private, and then they never bothered to check what would happen for anyone not logged into a ML account, so it would just give like a 404 not found error for everyone else.
Agreed that it's not impossible to find out who they are - just that ML makes an exceedingly poor representation of the Threadiverse to people coming over here from Reddit. So when they see "death to the USA", and they are... you know, in the USA, they often nope right out and not only never come back, they spread the word to anyone who will listen that that is what "we" here who use Lemmy are.
Btw, in case you were not aware, we are a tankie bar (see: Paradox of Intolerance).
Also, despite all the curation they perform within their garden, they won't allow people to block the Lemmy.ml instance - so it's not entirely a walled garden so much as it is a delivery system for the messages shared by Lemmy.ml users.
I say death to america all the time and I live here
same. Honestly if I didn't live in the US I would probably be less anti-american. Living here is very radicalizing.
I don't live in the US and you'd bet that I'm more hostile towards your state than you, I can bet on that. If you see what your state has done from a developing country's eyes, your mind will be broken.
I think you are underestimating me, but I'm glad you are against America. I won't say what I think because that probably wouldn't be such a good idea for my health. But trust me we're on the same page.
I do want to thank them for vaccinating me from their ideology. Interacting with them made me realize that I'm a social democrat and not a full blown socialist
Any other self affirmations you wish to share with us?
Nah. Do you?
Which one do you have a problem with? The first rule?
That is the instance's sidebar b██h. I followed your instructions and got there.
Ah, I see my instructions were not clear. You did great with the first step!
So the second step, I now realize the link isn't "about this instance", but it is actually labelled "what is lemmy.ml". You can actually see it in your screenshot, right above the rules!
I'm very sorry for the confusion, I know it can be a complicated procedure.
Aww, look at the underhanded insults 😂
Here it is. Could you enlighten me with where it says that they "support a specific political ideology and will not tolerate dissent"?
Sadly, dumb shitheads like you have no capacity to read or question anything 😢
https://lemmy.ml/post/1140303
Literally calls out "western social media"
Lol stop being dense...fucking tankies man...
duhh, how dare these damn tankees say that western social media thrives on outrage 😤
Well, at least you can read subtext half the time. Probably explains why you read for calling everyone "shithead".
Astonishing creativity, by the way. Simply incredible
still not answering the question
Yeah, you're not beating the allegations.
You should toddle off now. You are clearly in over your head. Go off and play now.
Not even gonna check what this is a reply to, even if you agree with me you suck for saying this lmao
I'm more curious how .ml users feel about that mod's idea that rape is an acceptable action to do in certain contexts, for example if a woman served in a Western military.
I can understand all their political positions and opinions but that one seems beyond the pale.
My opinion is that geneva_convenience has been going off the deep end, getting worse and worse lately, and definitely should be removed as a mod, honestly just banned. He's an edgelord who's taking things to unreasonable extremes and trying to pick fights with everyone.
i agree, can't stand them either and it's only been getting worse
I only really saw it for myself when I said, "I'm completely opposed to the genocidal, apartheid state of Israel. I don't have a problem with Jews existing," and they responded by accusing me of being a "liberal Zionist" and "supporting genocide" and then blocking me.
I remembered Cowbee saying something about them before, I just looked it up and I gotta give props as always because he was calling them out 9 months ago for not reading theory of doing praxis and just watching Bad Empanada, and for apparently calling Hexbear "transzionist" and accusing them of defending Contrapoints' stance on Israel, which is just bizarre.
It's honestly very unfortunate. Geneva has had ample time and advice to move onto a better, more coherent worldview, when they seem to be taking the opposite path.
is that not what any good forum needs?
There's a line.
Geneva convenience says I'm a "zio" because I say HAMAs commits war crimes.
Dude, they take pride in it. You can watch it... more videos than you could ever watch all of
(Yes, Israel commits war crimes and breaks the Geneva convention, too).
That's nothing unusual for a user who excused pedophilia and posted a fascist dogwhistle.
Geneva is more of a radlib and Bad Empanada stan than a principled communist. 80% of what they post is decent to good, and a solid 20% is horrendous.
Yeah. If you're not familiar with ![email protected], they have people submitting posts pretty similar to yours for lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml there.
Thanks, I will check
Sure. There's also ![email protected], but that's more-generalized to discussion over whether-or-not something is mod or admin abuse of power, and doesn't deal specifically with those instances.
I’d stay away from that shithole. The mods/admins there are incredibly biased and protect known trolls from being called out.
uh, fyi, the mod from PTB bans people for saying 'vote'. he lets deluded ML people talk shit about how fucked up the US is, then when you reply "well fucking vote" they call you electoralists and ban you.
no where in the rules, just banned. ironic, I'd normally report such behavior to power trippin bastards but lol
Yeah. That entire instance has gone to shit. I have them blocked as well. They’re essentially a .ml wannabe instance.
can someone explain why the .ml people hate piefed so much?
Stated answer: bc it is "opinionated".
This is actually true - it already has been and is getting more strongly biased against "social media" type of content (as opposed to more serious, less emotional discussions) all the time. e.g. lately it will reject additional votes beyond a daily quota, which is applied even to people on Lemmy (or Mbin, Friendica, nodeBB, Mastodon, etc.) - for the stated reason that votes are not meant to make people feel good and instead that somehow is indicative of "vote manipulation", when you, you know, upvote content that you would like to see more of.
The trick though is that it doesn't bother telling people this, in anything remotely resembling a transparent manner, so it is a type of shadow-censoring people's offered contributions. Also, this anti-feature, forced over the objections of most people in the community, is enabled by default, and was barely announced, leading multiple instance admins to express surprise at the new behavior of their machines after the relevant update. Several migrations of people and entire communities to PieFed were cancelled as a result.
Real answer: tribal Lemmy love somehow must imply hatred of any "competition".
People made a bunch of shit up, it got disproven, but nobody seemed to relent and people still spread the disinformation about it. Like saying that things were "hard-coded", when not only was that not the case, but (unlike the shadow-censoring mentioned above) they were even opt-in, i.e. disabled by default.
There are several valid reasons to prefer Lemmy over PieFed - like a more polished UI, and a superb search functionality, or just being too lazy to move once already established. But some people like to create drama, it would seem, and don't care whether their battle cries are based on actual facts or not.
What we need is co-directional migration between Lemmy and PieFed. I need this for my instance, but having it for users is an important first step.
In practice, software is simply software, and it matters far more who your instance admins are than which software platform you use. All the more so if you use something like Voyager that replaces the front-end UI component.
And I didn't get into it above, but Lemmy is quite opinionated as well. For instance, when you choose the option to so-called "block" an instance, what that does for you is:
However what that so-called "block" does not do for you includes:
Thus this so-called "block" of an instance is nothing at all like a block, and acts more as a community muting.
Also, when a mod removes content it makes it disappear as if the page never existed, giving a 404 not found error afterwards (Reddit leaves the page active to anyone with the URL, even allowing conversations that were already started to continue).
Users are never notified of the event - leaving people to find out literally years later that they were banned from something, or that their content was removed, when in all that time they were not aware (Reddit sends notifications).
There is no modmail for users to contact the mods to ask for clarification - instead, Lemmy forces people to individually ask each of the mods why, e.g. via DM (Reddit has a modmail).
Even when someone goes looking in the modlog to find out why their content was removed, it often says that it was done simply by a "mod".
Instance admins have supreme rights, community mods have a bit less so, but end-users have next to none at all. Even Reddit offers more rights to end-users than Lemmy does!!!! Authoritarian practices are baked right into the Lemmy codebase.
We do need migration though.
And btw you start by saying "software is software" and then go on giving examples why it's is not that simple.
PieFed provided the ability to migrate from Lemmy to PieFed, so if the Lemmy devs want to provide for the ability to migrate from PieFed to Lemmy then that is up to them to make that happen. Ofc anyone could contribute the code and submit a PR offering it.
Sublinks was going to do similarly, but the project got massively postponed when the primary dev had a baby.
tyvm for the insight.
what a strange world we live in.
Yep. I highly suggest anyone with a beef against these wannabe-communist douchebags post your stories there.
It's basically a rite of passage for a new lemmy user to get banned from half of .ml for a completely mundane comment they made.
It is so blatantly obvious. Worse than the_donald was on reddit. Pure Chinese and Russia propaganda. Overtly negative on anything from the west and won't allow anything negative about Russia, China, etc.
Defederate lemmy.ml
I had one .ml mod delete a comment of mine because I listed events that disagreed with them minimizing the horrors of 1986 republicans. They stated your average '86 republican was further left than 2026 average dem. So I blocked that mod and that channel.
So I guess .ml are apologists for the '86 gop now?
Tankies: we're leftists!
Also tankies: Reagan wasn't that bad
Anything's possible when you make shit up
Y'all really need to come to terms with the fact that tankies are just conservatives larping.
Why do you need the admin of your server to manage your block list for you? Perhaps youre unsure of how to take personal responsibility of your own lemmy account. Dont worry stranger, I got your back.
Welcome to a tutorial on how to block .ml on your personal account.
In the top right corner of the top of the page, there are 3 horizontal white bars. Click it.
This will open up a drop down menu. At the bottom of that menu, you will see your username. Click it.
This will open another drop down menu with 3 options. Click "Settings".
At the top of your screen you will see 2 tabs. Click the one that says "Blocks".
Here you will see "Block user" "Block community" and "Block instance". Click the down arrow below "Block instance".
This will open up a search bar. Type "lemmy.ml" and click it after it shows up. That's it! You've blocked .ml and will never see content from the instance.
But wait, we aren't done yet in this menu. Click the down arrow under "Block user". Now type "UltraGiGaGigantic" Make sure you select my .ml account as the other ones I no longer use. Thanks, appreciate it.
Does anyone need evidence? Their leadership sucks, and we all know, or should know it.
yeah everyone knows this
No, many people know this; but there are virgin minds born every day. Consider XKCD's classic Ten Thousand. Part of the vigilance means doing the documentation, and on a social media platform, that means periodic updates as content. Few people take up arms on a fight that nobody can see.
This person is doing good work 😋, even if the conclusion is unsurprising.
Tbf, I knew it was infested with tankies, but I didn't know it was by design until now
Oh no, what have you done with the twelfth gandalf?!
i evolved
The mods do whatever they want, many break their own posted rules with regularity.
In my experience, in Lemmy they are more apt to delete a comment then ban, so that is nice.
There's no logic to it. I've said "The nation ___________ says this, their motto is ___________ .... (and then repeat their own slogan from their own officials)."
Delete. 100% true, easily verifiable everywhere, public information pertaining to the discussion, deleted.
So, if you're censored or banned, that just means that you're a thinking person with reasonable opinions who bases your conclusions on the factual information available to you.
It's a good thing. Thank God.
If they agree with you, please get help immediately. Time is short.
There needs to be a list of instances that defederate lemmy.ml by default. It's not just a single community, it is at the admin level.
Be the change you want to see in this world. Make your own instance and defederate.
Need... more... pixels....
I found a couple more
Thank you!
If youre viewing posts and comments on .ml, youre actually in our house not yours.
I'm just a user here but three days ago I was banned from some community without any explanation. Some moderator accused me of being a rapist because of one comment that they deleted and no one could read. After some comments trying to find out what was happening, I was banned. I didn't see before, but in that community, in the blahaj something instance, they warn something like 'no tankies'. I'm in lemmy.ml, and I guess that makes me a tankie.
These instance wars are bullshit.
Fucking Christ. We aren't on .ml but you wouldn't know it from the number of people absolutely obsessed with them. Just ignore it if you don't like it. Join a de-federated instance, block the communities, whatever. Bitching here has absolutely no impact.
Counterpoint - if we were on .ML these people would be blocked - they're exercising their freedom.
We're not on Reddit, Facebook, or X and you'll find whole communities of haters for those sites, too.
Believe it or not, negativity tends to spread further than positivity in general as we are a risk-averse species, and it's one of the documented harms of social media in general. You're probably gonna find some version of this style of bitching no matter where ya go, it's a human thing.
Finally, based .world
I share this to raise awareness, I can block the instance entirely! the more people see their abuse, the better for public awareness. If you don't like this post, just downvote it or block my account,so you will not see anything like this again!
Continue being incredibly cringe in a very public way. Whatever you post, I wont be making a post every day complaining about you.
censoring facts and attacking tone instead of answering arguments prove my point
Who cares? Join a different server and move on, that's the beauty of the fediverse.
The issue is you can block the .ml instance, but not their users from bleeding into other instances. On top of that .ml is a default instance, and a lot of the times trying to get people to join the fediverse, the first thing I hear from them is, no thanks it's filled with tankies.
Basically it'd be like trying to get people to join truth social because there are sane people on it but you've got maga and the orange shit turd posting crazy shit on it. Lemmy has a stain attached to it in the form of two tankie devs and a tankie instance they run.
Who also absolutely refuse to separate funding for future development of the Lemmy software vs. operating costs of the Lemmy.ml instance.
Also if you study its modlog, the amount of time they spend each day curating that content is high, to say the least. Not every dollar (or ruble or whatever) spent goes towards the latter, but it seems that a goodly portion of it does.
The devs themselves are the very ones tying the development of Lemmy with the operation of Lemmy.ml - this is not hidden in the slightest.
I see... Maybe time to move to piefed then? I was tooling the idea to switch on my instance but never did.
I run a piefed instance, it's great!
I can move posts from one community to another!
No way to migrate from Lemmy to piefed right? If I replace my instance I lose all my posts and history?
PieFed offers a migration ability - @[email protected] would you like to explain more, particularly how it would work for an instance admin?
I would be very interested
Migration of user with joined communities etc works. But if you want to migrate whole instance, that won't be so easy. Mainly because other instances will still think yours is Lemmy. I think that in the long perspective what would be the easiest would be to
something(usually people put piefed here).downonthestreet.eudownonthestreeteu(I don't know how it's done but it was done for lemm.ee)Technically it's a migration to another instance but you'd keep your history etc
I have only one user and host no public communities (at least, none that I would migrate). Ok I see.
So I would setup piefed on a different subdomain and then can I migrate / copy all my subscribed communities and posts and comments over? Because I want to remove the Lemmy instance then, and not lose all that
It must be me not following any community where those tankies are too active. Or maybe not being actively interested in discussing with them.
I don't ban any instance on my one-user instance, so it's clearly something I am missing here since I never had issues.
I am also not much interested in politics either, so maybe it's that.
I share this to raise awareness; The more people see their abuse, the better for public awareness
"banning me for being a troll is abuse" lol
Yeah. But .ml douchebacs still come to other instances to run their Putin-sucking mouths. It’s like whack-a-mole trying to block them all.
And don't forget the alts they make on other instances, which they then proudly mention in certain spaces (like on lemmygrad) how they evade such instance bans and user blocks.
They are very proud of their ability to remain not only ungovernable, but people who willfully remain insensitive to others needs as well.
Good point.
Looks like trump himself is a Putin mouth so, maybe he also has a user on .ml
Some of what they deleted is just taking out the trash.
If you want to challenge them without getting deleted, ask them why Russia doesn't conduct themselves more like China when it comes to foreign aggressions.
You arent really a lemming until you've told Cowbee to go fuck himself.
Telling on yourself loudly
And you people wonder why you get banned.
I've blocked all .lm instances and even now piefed. The creator or piefed bans anyone who criticizes his dumb ass decisions. Well that's fine, there a reason the entirety of piefed as a software has been decreasing population.
Also there are occasional mods that just love to jerk themselves. The dumb taco truck mod on the Star Trek instance will ban you if you say you don't like new Star Trek, but that dumbass just moderates two mostly dead communities, so it's okay
I think it's common knowledge at this point that it's a deranged *tankie instance
They aren't truly communists. They are leftist MAGA. Russia, China, and North Korea are nowhere close to either communist or socialist.
Correct about the deranged part tho - no notes there.
they are mirror-image conservatives, they use the same buzz words, talk the same language.
And the same argumentation tactics - sea lioning, didoing, whataboutism, deflection, personal attacks rather than vs. the subject material, etc.
Nobody says the Russian Federation is socialist any longer, but the large majority of communists do agree that the DPRK, Cuba, China, Vietnam, and Laos are socialist, because they are all run by the working class with social ownership as the principal aspect of their economies. Cuba is often seen as an example of "socialism done right," and they share this same exact sentiment towards the DPRK, PRC, Vietnam, and Laos. Are the Cubans not "true communists" either? Who on Earth does qualify?
The path to enlightenment.
This is nothing new under the sun.
An individual could block .ml instances, but I choose not to so I could keep calling out their bs. It's not win an argument and stoke my ego, but it is for any would reader to see how nonsensical .ml users themselves and their ideas are.
Problem is it takes infinity research to call out some of this stuff, and they can usually weasel into some stupid word games, like "tankie just means communist!"
Because that's what they want you to do. They gish gallop and you end up having to rebut all the point to tire you out. My experience over the years with extremists on all sides is to call out their bad faith tactics and cut the chase. For example, with the Uyghur issue, tankies always claim that the accusation of genocide only came from one complainant and the West supoosedly chose to blow it out of proportions. But that talking point easily falls apart because it's not just one, but hundreds and thousands of complaints. Most people would rather get on with their lives than waste time with making false accusations. There are far too many to ignore and where there is smoke there is fire.
Reminds me of some zio article I read lately that says in reality democrasy does not work in the middleast and that Israel is the only democrasy in the middleeast..etc ,.. without mentioning that in reality the US steps in to slaughter every middleastern country the moment they try democrasy, and forces them to install a puppet dictatorship government that works for the intrests of israel and US.
Let's normalize shaming and shunning individuals, like geneva_convenience in this example, over ridiculing an entire community.
Communities are not monolithic.
and they will just nake a new account when they realize people are blocking them.
Communities have moderation policies, and they have the power to discourage such behavior. if a community does not act against it, they are accepting it.
Any community that accepts fascism among it's ranks is fascist.
ha, duh?
I am seeing your comment from the future??
i dont have that kind of energy at my disposal.
i suspect some kind of localized timezone conversion failure.
Hah, yup. They replied an hour ago to a comment you only posted 3 minutes ago. And now your response was posted… -13 minutes ago?
The authoritarian bootlicker server is doing authoritarian bootlicker things? Shocked, I say. Shocked!
You guys are still federated with those reactionaries??
Funny, I just had a thread going about the same thing happening in the "LateStageCapitalism" instance......
u/godlesscommie, where are you? Gonna come onto this thread to bitch and moan as well?
So you went into a community, you made a bunch of posts that are literally against the rules of the community and frankly the tone of the posts are antithetical to the point of the community. It's called late stage capitalism. What did you think they thought?
This is straight up troll Behavior. I would have banned you too.
This literally just happened to me in the memes instance of .ml
I mean these people are incredibly stupid but I probably also would've given a temp ban (but I also probably would've banned the people saying "both sides!!!"). That community is there to moan about capitalism's failings, and your posts didn't really fit there. It's like going into a support group for women and saying men also have these problems, even if you're right these people feel like they've been failed by the system so you have to take a softer tone.
Obviously.
Replicate absolute power among admins and their moderators and expect abuses of power. This is inherent to the design of Reddit, and since Lemmy copied much from Reddit this aspect of its design has been replicated here.
If you root for murderous authoritarian dictatorships just cause they are anti-west, you are not a leftist, you are not a tankie, you are a fascist and should be treated as such.
Just defederate yourself from those instances (block them.) Idk why you think spending all this time and effort on an instance you really don't like is going to do anything positive for you.
Well this is pretty standard right wing, often US, propaganda so the reason isn't far off. 😄 Sure they are pretty trigger happy but parroting right wing propaganda (whether or not you consider it such, and whether or not you consider yourself a capitalist) in an self-avowed leftist space won't get you hugs and kisses. Especially in this day and age when everyone is looking at whay the US is doing and catching up on world history as a result. If it were me I wouldn't delete and ban, instead I'd post references to read. But it is what it is. 🤷
What the person said above is true though. None ever got to statelessness like Marx intended. If you ban the truth because that same truth is used by people that also say things that are not true, you're really no better than they are. That being said, I feel most US propaganda is just "socialism is communism and that is bad." Most of the time they can't even define socialism or communism. But if you just ban everyone that has a different opinion or wants to just have a discussion about what the best approach is, you've created an authoritarian instance anyway and pretty much exemplify the biggest issue everyone has with states that have tried communism. Sets a really bad precedent.
People who don't read Marx misunderstand the achievement of statelessness as a deliberate moment where a state abolishes itself, but the actual path to statelessness is fully collectivizing all production and distribution globally, and gradually eradicating class distinctions. The existing socialist states are the furthest along in that process, that does not mean not immediately jumping to highly advanced communism is somehow a black mark against their achievements.
In the world i live in, this isnt right wing propaganda. Here right wing propaganda is that the defaults of those states are defaults of communism, and what i understand from this comments corresponds to what i hear anarchist and libertaires saying : that the default of those states were due to authoritarianism rather than communism, because they were implementing only socialism at their very best.
Maybe it's a cultural difference then, but there are some place on earth where criticizing authoritarian states isnt necessarily right or left wing.
"Right Wing Propaganda" for a
StalinistML sure, but pretty much every other left wing strain of thought has some grievances with these countries. At best you can call this leftist infightingA version of this does exist in left-wing infighting but this narrative specifically has been and is constantly repeated by the American right, probably some of the centre too:
It's currently being deployed to attack the insurgent left that's contesting some elections this year, along with the resurgent interest and popularity in socialism over the last couple of years.
Everyone on the left has grievances with these past and present projects. Including MLs.
The communist regimes were all set upon to the point where authoritarians took over, and never gave it up. It's not a rebuke of communism that cuba wasn't a utopia, with the US on it's ass.
That said, I think a mixed socialism capitalism society could work best, but with strict 1950 style controls, taxing the rich 90% on obscene profits and all that. Enforcing anti trust laws, and so forth. Not doing those is not capitalism, it's crony capitalism/oligarchy.
The thing is, they should debunk my claims. It would be good for others to see that I’m wrong, Tankies are right. But removing comments or posts actually proves they’re just like their governments, Russia and China. You know Putin doesn’t tolerate criticism—Alexei Navalny was a dissident, and he ended up dead in prison. These tankies are the online version of them.
anti-zionists and anti-Westerners can publish videos on YouTube, and rarely do they get deleted.
By the way, I am not capitalist or right-wing. But it doesn't mean I will support their empty communism, which just produces authoritarian regimes.
Your claims have been debunked to shit and back
Daily reminder to block every instance ending in @lemmy.ml
All the content you see there has been censored out of any criticism to china/Russia/north Korea. If you don't look at the content that passed their censorship filter, their censorship loses all its power. Look at and support communities of other instances instead.
I think there is only one lemmy.ml instance, any [email protected] is a community on that one instance. But pretty much yeah.
And every user from that instance. Let them preach to their own choir. None of us need to hear that shit.
this is like the 100th fork in this kitchen
Thank you ☺️
shame we can't block all the users of the instance too.
So embarrassing that you follow every negative .ml post and comment this same comment on every one. What a fuckin loser lol
Why are you still here? Go home.
What is this thread even. Blocking an entire instance, because a single community member annoyed somebody? I mean, sure, go ahead…
ML simply happens to be the instance hosted by the developers of entire Lemmy, so they spend the bare minimum on post moderation, because they have the bigger picture to focus on.
Now the screenshots show that a “mod” took action. A “mod” can be literally anybody appointed by the current mods of a community. Anybody can create a community, just like on Reddit, so this could literal have been anybody. You’ll encounter similar bans on other instances in time as they grow too, because people are free to make sub-rules to their communities, essentially each “mod” having their little dictatorship.
Nah, they're tankies, they have an agenda.
Everyone with a working brain has an agenda
My agenda is already booked with useless meetings unfortunately
We know, you're an .ml user
Don't worry, I already have lol.
Haven't seen a single .ml post in months, I no longer need to see posts arguing:
the Uyghur's aren't being genocided
uncle Kim's totally communist state do not punish entire families for an individuals crimes
Hamas are misunderstood freedom fighters.
I get banned from the instance too. Can I community-ban from the entire instance? No? Ban reason is in the same post
You do realize admins "on the left" are doing the exact same thing, methodically deleting posts with facts they don't like? For example /u/little_[email protected], which looks like some alt account used specifically to delete comments. Are you going to defederate lemmy.world as well?
I didn't see any comment removal on lemmy. world for criticising a politician or a country. I criticize everything, including mine, when needed. But Lemmy.ml doesn't tolerate any criticism. Yes, f lemmy.world admins acted like Lemmy.ml admins; I would defederate.
Maybe you don't see any comments removed on lemmy.world because you agree with mods there on most topics? I had comment deleted that simply stated some facts about trans rights. I never had a comment deleted on lemmy.ml, probably because I don't engage in discussions about Russia that much. I sounds like you don't mind censorship as long as you're not the once who's being censored. A bit hypocritical in my opinion.
You can check my comment history and will see that I criticize israel/usa imperialism,ukraine's corruption and Europe. My comment is tolerated and dont get deleted. I don't get banned. western platform tolerate critics of USA and Israel. Even pro-russia propaganda stay up on twitter and youtube. They don't ban it unless extremist or incite violence.
lemmy.ml different. I criticize Russia , normal geopolitical analysis, not extremist and get ban. comment deleted and hidden from public. Freedom not unlimited in West. Yes, criticize Israel in USA get labeled anti-semitism. yes, AIPAC pressure people. But I still can post. Still can argue back. platform dont hide my comment. This is the difference. Western platform hide extremist. Tolerate dissent and enemies. Even Iranian government can share their news/report in enemy platform(Twitter,youtube)
Lemmy.ml hide dissent. Tolerate propaganda and one direction only. You say I hypocritical because I use Western platform to criticize them. Wrong. Exact reason prove point , Western platform ALLOW me do this. They tolerate enemy voices. Lemmy.ml do not. I use 'enemy' word ,because they see like this not I see.
Russia platform? They jail critics. Dont tolerate at all. Western imperfect but exist. Lemmy.ml and Russia? No freedom for opposition. You know Putin doesnt tolerate criticism. Alexei Navalny(Russian opposition leader) was a dissident, and he ended up dead in prison. These tankies are the online version of them.
That is the fact
No, I say it because you oppose censorship you don't like but ignore censorship you do like. I mentioned trans rights and you immediately assumed it was hate speech. My comment mentioned this story: https://www.rtve.es/noticias/20240821/hombre-cambia-sexo-evita-carcel-violencia-machista-sevilla/16223379.shtml
The mod decided it's misinformation or something. Because mods on lemmy.world delete comments that don't fit their worldview. They might be more tolerant of different opinions on politics but on other topics they act exactly the same way mods on lemmy.ml do. Since you're not the one who's censored you don't care about it.
I was banned from .world politics for saying Joe Biden accelerated the genocide in Gaza. They specifically banned me until after the election.
There is no unlimited of freedom-speech anywhere in the world.but scale is different. You can't say Putin is a dictator in Russia, but you can say Trump is a bastard/Dictator in new york.
USA limit less than Russia and Lemmy.ml limit more like russia than USA
Lmao, in the US, you can be deported to a concentration camp in a country you've never been to for protesting against your government doing a genocide. You haven't been paying much attention lately?
https://lemmy.world/post/52958077/26290978
Please don't ever link me to your whining again, thanks.
Get in everyone, the daily feudpost is here!
You were explained about a hundred times over how Western countries promoted Nazis into top roles and the USSR only used them for labor.
But instead of bringing any argument you repeatedly insulted users and .ml in the thread.
You were begging for a ban and got it. And now you whine about it here.
"after hitler our turn" was bad
get mad
mad because bad
Lol I love the lopsidedness of it all though.
Stalin allies with the Nazis and agrees to split Poland kicking off the whole shebang. Gets betrayed and goes scorched earth.
The west didn't ask for war, avoided it, then blamed for not going scorched earth
Who the fuck do you think Germany is lmfao?
Weird way to describe yourself as a moron
I hope you're pretending to be stupid as fuck for a troll otherwise you need to let your parents know you've been shit posting on the internet again, lol.
Western Europe literally joined the Nazis. Stalin merely had a truce with them.
You also ignored all the Western truces with Hitler including by Britain.
Hahahaha no it wasn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact
And for added lols; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Operation_of_the_NKVD
They had more than a truce. They had a full alliance. They planned together and the soviets completely engaged in aiding Germany with it's assault.
It's also likely Hitler betrayed the Russians and did what he had done because he was on fucking meth. A more level headed leader probably would've played the relationship different and work alongside the soviets even longer.
So to reiterate, they formed a full on alliance and focused on the cultural destruction of the Polish people. And it took Hitler on meth to betray the Russians for them to drop the relationship.
And how am I ignoring anything? It's well known in history how the west aimed to appease Hitler and failed because it was understood how aggressive he was aiming to be and they didn't want a second great war. It has nothing to do with the relationship between Hitler and Stalin. You're just trying to smear blame and pull some whataboutism crap. It won't fly.
The only factual thing here is that the red army entered formerly polish borders.
And as for evil ass polish operation nkvd it's kinda like white genocide in south africa :v It even has it's own Alex Jones like figure. Also what I think it's really interesting here is that these nazi fucks gobbling taxes at the ipn couldn't be bothered to even sum their gorillions eaten by stalin with the giant spoon correctly
check for yourself if you don't believe me
And honestly I think it's really fucking insulting to all the polish people killed by nazis to try to diminish their plight and sacrifice by inventing an atrocity. Polish nationalists do so since they hate polish people, you don't care about poland so fuck off with that. Sincerely, a pole
Lol fuck you larper. I don't care who or what the hell you are. History is history.
Last post 4 weeks ago. Then you suddenly fly into my comment down this chain and cry crocodile tears trying to represent people who lost their lives?
Yeah fuck off bozo
You judge person by how terminally online they are yet concept of "lurking" escapes you. Not to mention "real life".
What happened to history is written by the victors and other liberal catchphrases that try to frame pop history as actual history?
I assume you're from usa, so an example of you believing word for word in narration of the polish state would be me believing word for word that at the blair mountain national guard defended the usa against UMWA and their bandits. Or more modern example would be iraq and their wmds. History is history after all...
I judge your larping by it's larping
History is history, that's why you get so fucking butt hurt when we teach you about it.
Did Stalin offer the West to fight Hitler with him before that truce and was ignored yes or no?
Damn y'all don't read.
Go reread that last link. Soviet Russia had already begun a covert operation against Poland. Here's the appropriate timeline.
1937 - Stalin kills about 100,000 Polish folk living in Russia at the time. This is called the NKVD Polish Operation.
1939(April) - Stalin signals alliance with Britain and France.
1939(August) - Stalin makes his alliance with Hitler.
You people try so hard to defend this man and just don't know history. They didn't wanna align with Stalin because his interest wasn't in fighting Germany or stopping Nazis. It was control and power. He wanted an excuse to push troops into Poland under the guise of fighting the growing German threat and when that didn't instantly form, he abandoned it and went straight to the Nazis.
Stalin had no interest in avoiding war. He outright went looking for it and tried to place himself in the best position for it. His own actions of murder and deceit is why nobody wanted to work with him.
So no. He did not offer a truce to fight Hitler. He killed 100,000 polish people and then scrambled and panicked that he'd be on the wrong side of the guns when war was going to inevitably break out. Not only did he directly aim to destroy Poland exactly like Germany but he ended up working with them to do exactly that.
Smh trying to frame shit to defend your daddy. Absolutely ridiculous
Anything's possible when you make shit up
Go swallow more of Stalin's cock idiot.
Patton was right, we shouldn't have stopped at the Elbe and should have went into Russia and torn down the USSR. The remnants is what's attacking Ukraine...with Putin suggesting the USSR collapse was the worst geopolitical disaster of the century. Russia needed to be split up.
If the US would have been able to they would like the barbarians they are. The US barely fought in WW2 to begin with. They just swept in to take over half of Europe after the USSR defeated the Nazis at Stalingrad and the Nazis were already being pushed back.
Lol more ml bullshit. The US didn't barely fight in the war lol
June 1941 is when the USSR flipped sides from splitting Europe with the Nazis to joining the allies. The US was already supplying material to the UK before that, and got attacked in Dec of 41. The US took on the Japanese basically by themselves, Australia would have fallen without our help. We also were the reason that the USSR survived with the lend lease program. You tankies are fucking hilarious though, try and change history to make the USSR the good guys who defeated the nazis all by themselves.
I forgot how they fought in Africa against Rommel, and in Italy and on the beaches of Normandy...and the Japanese in the Philippines...lol they fought on their own land and ended up taking over countries and west Germany... basically did what they agreed to do with the Nazis in the first place.
Don't bother replying with your bullshit made up history, no one but you lot believe that shit.
The US ground invasion started after the Soviets won the war against Nazi Germany and the Soviets were on a push to take over all of Europe. The US swooped in from the back and claimed half the spoils of war while contributing far less.
Lend Lease was great for the US as well they could give weapons to others and have their troops die while no American troop was in danger. Sure it was a positive thing but the US didn't do it out of the goodness of their hearts.
30 million Soviets died in WW2. Less than half a million Americans. The US contribution was nowhere near the Soviets.
I'm gonna pay this again so you can actually read it this time to make sense of why Stalin was a warmongering fuck.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Operation_of_the_NKVD
Stalin saved europe from the Nazis.
Goddamn you dumbasses will huff the fuck out of your bullshit won't you.
Soviets didn't make it back to Poland until 44 and the US had been well into the war and fighting in Europe and Pacific theater for years.
The Soviets also lost so many because they just threw bodies at the nazis. Same shit they're doing in Ukraine.
How many people died makes no difference on how they helped in defeating the nazis, they sided with for 2 years hoping to split up Europe with them.
Also way to leave off the final bit of the quote
"although I don't want to see Hitler victorious under any circumstances.”
Truman saw that the USSR was just as bad as nazi Germany...but it doesn't fit your propaganda so...keep on with that russian shill bullshit.
Can you fit in a few more insults in between your NATO propaganda?
Typical tankies,pro-Russian propagandists. All my comments get deleted. These propagandists mix truths with false information to make it easier to spread their propaganda
This is how you defend your claim. I share this to raise awareness; the more people see lemmy.ml abuse, the better for public awareness.
Yes because you start off all your comments with insults and bring no arguments.
Thank you for proving my point again.
Where did I insult? do not lie and show the proof. I bring the argument but people like you deny,because it doesnt serve your agenda.
Are you saying you didn't call people Russian propagandists and tankies before you got banned?
Yes I said, but this is not insulting! The is definition of what happening.
Oh my bad I didn't realize yelling at every user they're paid Russian propagandists is actually an insightful debate argument.
They're right, dumbass
I've been hoping that .world would defederate from .ml for a long time. I've become a lurker precisely because of this.
We already defederate from alt-right and freeze-peach servers. If a server is overwhelmingly populated by fascist collaborators (call them tankies, if you will, but that's what they do), why feature their memes and users on the front page?
It's like we still haven't learned from the "GamerGate" days - people claim that judging their movement/forum is unjustified because there's no vetting or membership card. But if you join a movement primarily known to be a reactionary harassment group, be ready for people to assume the worst.
And no, my personal block list isn't good enough. This is a systemic issue. Hiding the primary propaganda just to then perversely receive it through the changing opinions of people around me isn't good enough.
Although i write from lemmy.lm, i have no clue what Marxism/leninism is all about. What i CAN say is that you are most definitely just regurgitating the most ridiculous and infantile US propaganda from the big western echo-chamber, and i for one - not being a 'baad baad Tankie' - are happy to have you and similar gullible (no offence intended) western moral aggressors blocked.
There's too much infantile propaganda and hence too many angry mob people in the Western media-sphere/echo-chamber, and I'm thrilled to have found a place where i don't have to see or hear that evil warmongering stupidity and childish unsupported claims again and again and again.
It is very easy to debunk all the infantile claims about all the enemies of the US fascist Oligarchy (any country in the entire World where US elites power is restricted, is their enemy), but you didn't bother - at all ! In short, you are regurgitating what the Epstein+ class want you to regurgitate, and thus you are just supporting the Western fascist Oligarchy - no matter if the puppet admin is Trump, Biden, Bush, Obama or any of the other psycho people put in place (..you HAVE realised that we don't have 'Democracy' in the west right? ..right?!). Please educate your self on how the US elite have been behaving globally throughout history, how they colonize and oppress western societies/people, how the US propaganda machine actually works and THEN come back and we'll openly discuss the world situation again from there. Until then, your regurgitations are nothing but uneducated noise coming directly from the psychos benefitting from it. Again, no offense intended.
So, enough about you and your storytelling.
Thank you to all geo-politically educated mods on all instances, for keeping my feeds relatively free of US/western propagandist echo-chamber warriors that don't/won't bother checking anything they are told by their Epstein class rulers and their for-profit lying media sphere. Sad but necessary work inside this imbecile western lynch-mob. Love you all !
Oh, and a special thanks goes to lemmy.lm and all the geo-politically educated people there for sheltering me while its raining stupid outside. You should be proud of being called a 'Tankie' - whatever that childish slur means - you are intellectually far beyond the normal western crowd. A real treat to hang out with you 🙏🏻
what do you think of ukraine and poland
That's an awful long-winded way to say that you have no idea wtf you're talking about.
They're right, cry about it
See, you were a lot more concise.
You'd think inside your own echo chamber you'd be able to hear yourself.
That's the funny thing about echoes: they tend to distort whatever is being said. Perfect for not letting pesky little things like reality get between you and what you want to hear.
No you see, they simultaneously know that their own media and government cannot be trusted at all, yet everything they say about China and Russia is 100% true!!!
This is why everyone needs to defederate from that shithole. Only everyone that had the balls to, already has. The rest of the chickenshit admins are too afraid of losing their fucked up pseudo-authoritarian wannabe-communist content to make a move.
Buddy, that instance is run by the Lemmy devs. I agree, but I also think we're cooked.
They have zero authority outside of their own shithole. Fuck those losers.
There's always piefed or mbin. But until they start making our lives miserable with their code, I'm fine here.
Why do we care? If you don't like it, don't use it. That's the beauty of the fediverse. You can hop instances and lose basically nothing.
Applying this same logic, why did you bother to write your comment?
If you did not like the post, you could have continued to scroll onwards without further interaction... as you propose that OP do.
Touché
paste comment:
everyone already knows this, it's their instance and they aren't being racist so who cares?
Racism: The only bad thing a human can do.
They're literally defending imperialist nations that tread human, and particularly LGBTQ+ rights with their feet.
Anyone who is pro Russia is anti LGBTQ+ and pro Imperialism.
can people not have pride in their nationality?
Why should they?
IDK, same reason some people have pride in sportsball teams?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granfalloon
There's difference between pride in ones nationality, and defending an explicitly anti lgtbq and pro Imperialist fascist government
Marxists are explicitly not nationalists specifically because once you incorporate that it becomes basically indistinguishable from fascism.
Stay salty, libs