There Are 100 Computers Hiding in Your Car Right Now (You’re Riding a Data Center on Wheels)
Modern vehicles have evolved from mechanical machines into complex networks of processors, sensors, and code.
https://www.carsandhorsepower.com/featured/there-are-100-computers-hiding-in-your-car-right-now-you-re-riding-a-data-center-on-wheelsOpen linkView original on discuss.tchncs.de186
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Wow! I have a car?
I am as surprised as you are.
Not mine. My car was built in 1999. Going to drive it until they stopped offering fuel at gas stations and then just transplant a electric drivetrain.
My car has a cassette tape and no Bluetooth.
Well there's still like 2 or 3 computers on it most likely if you go by the definition of computer automotive journalists like to use.
PCM for sure, but could also have TCM if auto, ABS if equipped might have a computer, potentially some kind of BCM...
When they say a modern car has 100 computers, most of those are actually fairly simple controllers and the reason there are so many is that you can just route canbus and power to them and then run the necessary wires to the sensors and actuators from the modules instead of running a bunch of wires from one single controller to everything. Keeps the harness simpler and lighter.
My own 20 year old car has 26 "computers". 4 of them are door controllers that just actuate windows, locks and mirrors.
Thats right. The word "computer" in this article can mean anything with a microcontroller in it. Any car built after 1996 legally must have an OBD port, so it has a diagnostic computer at least. All cars with fuel injectors have an engine computer. All cars with air bags will have a computer that controls when they go off. Even some cars with cruise control in the 90s had a cruise computer that monitors and controls the speed.
I don't know what my point is, just that I agree, having lots of microcontrollers in your car is not necessarily bad thing, they provide many facets of basic functionality and don't collect your data. And journalists like sensational headlines and fear mongering.
You're gonna save so much money not buying new cars, that your idea won't be crazy. I like it.
Spending a lot of money on gas isn't saving money.
He'd still come out ahead by driving his old car and then electrifying it when he can afford it. It'd beat taking on a new car loan or lease.
While I can afford a newer car, I can't bring myself to spend 700usd just to drive a new car when my old car is still running. Even if my entire engine explodes, a new engine replacement is like 5k, it's still worth it. Maybe one day my engine won't be available but for now, I'm happy with not paying a car payment.
Let's say you drive 10k miles per year and you're getting 20mpg that's 500gal of fuel per year. If gas is $5/ gal that's $2500 per year. Let's say I can get a car that gets 40 miles per gallon. Over ten years I'm saving $12k so I'd need to spend less than $12k on a car in order to save money. Idk what the cost of electric is over the cost of gas but I know that I can't get an electric car for less than $12k that isn't going to need an expensive battery replacement in the near future.
Sure, if you consider every tiny microcontroller to be a computer, it's probably more than 100.
Right? This article is kinda a ridiculous take. A musical greeting card has a computer in it.
Cars are going to have tons of computers in them, from engine to battery management systems to driver displays to the audio system.
The computers that should be of concern are the “black box” and telemetry, one can brick your car with an OTA update and the other is uploaded to data aggregators, bought by your insurance company, and used to raise your rates if they see driving their metrics say make you a risk.
-average consumer ...
Your computer has dozens of computers in it!
Oh yeah? Where’s my tax break then? And my subsidized water usage?
My daily driver is a bicycle, checkmate.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to go pair my bike with my phone so I can upgrade the derailleur’s firmware…
My bosses gears ran out of battery once so he couldn't get up the hill. Wires are sometimes better than wireless.
shrugs in mechanical
Well, it doesn't take much to add a GPS computer to the handlebar and heart rate monitor. If you are feeling spendy it could also mean 2 pressure monitors, real time suspension damping valves, power meter, wireless shifting and dropper post.
I'll admit, I have been looking at a folding bike with wireless shifting.
The high tech in vehicles that I wanted:
The "high tech" we got:
Elite dangerous reference, i upvote
O7
All I need is a baseline open hardware EV. Fat chance, of course. So I guess I have to buy something used, today older than 8 years and counting.
Not quite open hardware, but it's minimal compute - https://www.slate.auto/
SUV and US only, hard pass.
I have my prrorder but without a price still I am still unsure if I will get one.
I tried so hard to hold on for the chance to purchase one but my old car began to reek of moist unwashed towels thanks to all the rain. Ended up getting a sweet deal on a '22 Bolt with 13k miles for $15k. There's a way to reversibly terminate the data line with $15 worth of equipment and 10 minutes.
Interesting, thanks.
this civic ev swap kit looks promising: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VFNb139Nlc
aftermarket ecu should give pretty good control of all the data.
I mean, strictly speaking yes, but that's like saying your quartz watch is a computer.
Cars have been like this for three decades. The problem is that some of those computers do data collection & upload.
2012 here. Nothing being collected or transmitted.
It's fucking wild how quickly the media work to water down the impact of things that make Western governments a lot of quick money. Like overusing 'genocide' to stop people talking about the annihilation of Palestine, they're using articles worded like this to distract from the actual data centres.
Desensitization
* data gathering center
Can my mobile data center extract income for me somehow? How about a class action lawsuit from all vehicle owners to get a cut of that lucrative "selling your information to other predatory companies" gig?
Given the fact that my wipers slow down whenever I indicate, I don't think I'm being surveilled by my car. It's one big electrical short circuit on wheels that somehow still operates.
It's like a rather dysfunctional tank. Absolutely nothing that happens to it phases it or damages it in any way but it's baseline functionality is pre-compromised. When I got rear-ended by an inattentive driver the front of his car was all smashed in, my bumper was a little loose and I gave it a tap and it snapped back into place.
There is definitely something to be said for mid-2010s manufacturing. They've gotten really good at building cars but haven't quite got as far as putting chips in them yet. The dirt cheap on the second hand market and they just keep going forever.
Tbf it's only been ten years since the mid 2010s so a bit early to know if they'll keep going longer term
Not this ship, sister.
I didn't read the article but these days a turn signa,for instance, doesn't just connect to a flasher and a bulb. It connects to the network in the car and requests that the computer initiate the turn signal. This means the turn signal switch itself has to have a chip in it to communicate with the network that I believe they are calling a sort of computer. Virtually every component in the car operates like this. It really isn't the same thing as 100 computers..
Its not, but it does beg a lot of reliability questions. Cars today have many single points of failure in the electrical system, and have made things like the turn signal dependent on them, as well. The old turn signal had about as few components as an electrical circuit could have. Today's has all of those but one, then like 20 more in the form of the computer and CAN bus. This can be said for many, many functions in a modern car. If there were material benefits to the end-user, maybe there'd be an argument for the added order of magnitude in complexity, but there are not. You get a token amount more diagnostic information, wheelbarrows full of privacy invasion, dramatically increased cost, and poorer reliability.
This, multiplied by every system in the car that has been subjected to this Rube Goldberg, is why even the new shitboxes cost a year's pay.
Pretty sure that my 2004 rav4 that just lost a muffler on the highway does not house a data center, it still has a tape deck....
04 Tundra with a tape deck. And a 6 CD changer! Although I think that has some stripped out gears, bad motor, or something 'cause it stopped working years ago. I took it apart once to get the discs out but didn't bother making a diagnosis since I rock a cassette adapter anyway.
The more I see about the mid 90s through 00s Toyotas, the more I really don't want anything newer. Unfortunately everyone else seems to have the same opinion. There's not a single gen 1 Tundra at any pick'n'pull junkyard within 20 miles of me, and running ones are selling for more than I paid for mine used 14 years ago. Blows my mind my little 22 year old pickup has somehow maintained or increased in value in this ridiculous market.
Can't believe they made my 2010 Scion XD a data center 16 years ago
Idk bud. 2008 I might have like 10.
No it doesn't. The only computer in there is the aftermarket head unit, and even that is over a decade old.
So then, beyond safety standards, what's stopping someone from developing an open source hardware vehicle at this point?
Time, money. The usual.
My motorcycle, Harley Davidson Pan America, is a computer on two wheels. If I fire it up before the computer completes the start phase (~10 seconds), it will eventually throw error codes.
If you want an automobile that will survive an EMP blast, find an old manual transmission Mercedes-Benz W123 240D.
Wow, 10 whole ass seconds? Peak HD design.
My CB300R just starts as soon as the fuel pump is done priming.
And here I was thinking they are still gravity fed..
Yeah the human tends to be gravity fed to the bike, hard to stay on an upside down bike.
We have a 1999 model car. I know it inside and out and there are nowhere near 100 computers in it.
Headlines are clearly not written for lemmy users lmao.
I figured there was a lot of data tracking because it's not uncommon for my infotainment center to crash my Apple CarPlay connection when a message pops up saying my truck is sending data to Ford. Like damn, chill out Ford. Let me live a little.
Privacy4cars.com
I don't have good news for you about your Ford...
I looked up my truck and it doesn't seem that bad.
Oh good
I hope so lol. A lot of the data they say they collect or don't collect matches up with the purpose they tell me for why it gets collected. Whether it goes beyond that I'm not sure but at least it matches up there.
This is promising career news for data center techs like me.
Nope. We bought a pretty dumb car. Sadly only the "entry-models" have no shit in them. At least no cloud-shit. Android-auto to not be bound to abysmal onboard-systems that require subscriptions. And that's it.
I love tech from the depth of my heart. But in a car I want haptic buttons and dials and no 2m long touchscreens where I can only turn on the AC when I have reception 😁
Your car probably has an electronics module (ECM) and a power train module (PCM) at the very least. But there's very few cars built in the last 3 decades that don't have at least two computers in them of some kind.
Obviously that's not a "data center on wheels" but I hope this headline is hyperbole.
Yeah of course our car does not run on love and solar energy :) I totally don't worry about some tech, i worry about connected cars. Which only unavoidably leads to subscriptions for everything and tons of privacy problems.
Then why the fuck are data centers getting fucking land?!