Remember when he told his advertisers to fuck off, and then two weeks later sued them because they fucked off? That's the depth of this man's genius!!!
They significantly dropped the prices at the dealerships. A model 3 is now like 36k compared to 50+ last year., but I'd rather walk on glass. We bought a Ford Maverick instead.
According to the analysis, Tesla achieved loyalty rates of 63.6% among Asian households and 61.9% among Hispanic households. These figures exceeded national averages.
Favorability / loyalty have dropped across all groups over the past several years.
France saw an increase in Tesla registrations by 203% year over year.
Sweden had a 144% increase in registrations. Denmark had a 96% increase.
In the US, the core demographic remains white male, ~48 years old, with a household income exceeding $140,000, particularly in conservative states (Texas/Florida).
Part of the problem is that competition is still lacking in many ways especially when it comes to charging infrastructure.
Depends how much the average consumer is paying attention. Many probably don't know that every EV can use the Tesla chargers now.
The competition here is certainly constrained. Most car manufacturers are making less EVs due to decreasing overall demand and expirarion of federal EV tax credits.
The real competition is on the other side of the Pacific. Europe and Canada have accepted that on some level while the US continues to artificially prop up its EV market ex-China.
There are legitimate concerns don't get me wrong. But the US won't be able to hide from a more dynamic and competitive product forever.
the US continues to artificially prop up its EV market ex-China.
It’s not even that: a little protectionism is normal trade policy globally. This would be fine, if it were temporary and if there was a goal to develop the domestic industry.
The real problem is the combination of protectionism, while also rejecting the technology change and shrinking down to the home market. The protectionism will stop at some point. Realistically it has to. But when it does, American legacy manufacturers will find themselves struggling to sell buggy whips to a world that sees them as museum displays. We’re trying to milk a few more years out of the legacy technology at the cost of totally ignoring the future
Even with the advent of the Industrial Revolution, Britain initially struggled to compete with the sheer quality and cost-effectiveness of Indian hand-woven fabrics.
They instituted a 100% tariff on importation of Indian fabric to support their nascent mechanized textile manufacturing.
This allowed them to hone the machinery by creating a sandbox to grow their new expertise in. The quality could not match what was produced by hand but the sheer volume and efficiency could easily outdo manual methods.
Over time as they gained political influence, they were able to point guns at and break the thumbs of the right people in India effectively eradicating Indias domestic textile industry.
They then forced Indian markets to accept British cloth with no tariff, making that consumer sandbox bigger.
Minus the colonial / coercive economics at the end there, this is an example of Britain using tariffs very effectively to grow their own industry while taking down a global leader in textiles (one that even the Romans wrote of 1500 years prior).
May well have played out the same without supportive policy, but the protectionism certainly helped them grow their own industry faster and the violent / coercive colonial element helped them remove a traditional, higher quality though analog/manual competitor sooner.
What America is doing is more of a dying empire vibe. Protection for the sake of clinging to the old and familiar way, with no plan or strategy to adapt for the future.
Yeah, I have to say, I still see Tesla as the leader by far here in the us. And given how price of cars has skyrocketed, teslas are now also “affordable”. It’s a shame they seem to be abandoning the car market. There’s finally some EV choice but not much, half of the choice was just cancelled, and most are not good.
Rivian is our best choice for the next compelling EV, but R2 cost significantly more than Tesla.
A lot of people online like the Equinox and it’s inexpensive, but poor efficiency, horrible software and no CarPlay. Also I’ve never seen one. GM cars in general don’t do well in my part of the US so it would be challenge to get people to see they exist
Lucid looks great on paper and I’m excited to see their mass market vehicles in a year or two, but they e really been struggling. I hope the saudis continue to see it through
Hyundai/Kia have been kicking ass on choice but low efficiency and still haven’t kicked their historical reputations for poor quality and easy to steal
I hope the R2 works out well. I'm not planning on getting a new car in the near future, so by the time I do, it should have all it's kinks ironed out and be a great towing vehicle for a light camping trailer.
And if you own one from before, the only responsible thing to do is sell it on the used market to reduce demand for their new cars. You might not get the price you want but come on. You could afford a Tesla; I’m not crying for your pocketbook.
At this point i no longer care if they lower the price until they're free. They will have to sell them as scrap at a loss. I will never, ever, ever buy a Tesla.
At one point I was considering buying a Tesla. Then I didn't like Musk, but felt I could justify buying a used Tesla, as it wasn't giving him any money.
Then Nazi salute and DOGE and lol, nope. I won't even uber a Tesla.
Oh, don’t worry. He can just buy them from himself using taxpayer money via subsidies from his other company like he did last year. If you’re an American taxpayer, you’ve already bought one.
Elon couldn't pay me to buy a Tesla. I like EVs. It's not about the technology. It's entirely about Elon. I'd rather buy Japanese or South Korean, thank you.
Toyota sells a couple EV models in China for the China market not sure where thier overseas models are made....Toyota has the second biggest selling EV in Norway for example and have that model here in Australia, its actually ok, the previous version was comparatively shitty
The bz4x/bz/Solterra is still the worst EV on the road, bar none.
Worst range of all EVs, flip phone quality software center stack, and the same price as a model y. It’s nuts that anyone would buy those pieces of shit.
I really despise most everything about him but if Elon were to actually pay me and give me a free car I’d very likely take it. I mean I have principles but I’m not an idiot.
I thought that was just the Cybertruck, which yes, I wouldn't drive even if someone gave me one. I'd flip it and buy something else.
I think both the sedan and roadster are okay electric cars, and I think they have enough range I could use them to reduce the amount of gas I burn in my Volt for longer trips.
But, I haven't really been paying attention to Tesla recently, and Elmu has certainly been looking horrible to me.
The problem is the door locks are electric, so if the car loses low voltage power, the buttons to open the doors no longer work. Worse yet, the Model 3 only has emergency physical latches in the front seats, so good luck in the back, kids.
I think there was that brief period of interest when Trump turned the White House driveway into a car dealership ad for Elon. But yeah, you're right. They're all gas-fueled motorheads.
This is what I see as well. The pro-musk US group hates EVs. The pro-EV US group hates Elon. Then there's the other 60% of the country that doesn't have a strong enough opinion to post about it online. I am surrounded by new Teslas despite being a in very blue city metro. It's obvious because the 3/Y got a facelift during the height of the musk/trump romance
This is my stupid fucking friend who can’t get off Elons nuts at all. It’s fucking sad. He literally bought a model Y the other day despite me telling him Rivian is about to release a competitor because he thinks he can add it to the robo taxi fleet in a year or two. God I love him and am sick of this shit.
I have one of those friends acquittances. Glow in his eyes when he talks about Elons great deeds. He also just bought a Y-model, because Elon was treated unfairly, even though he's in large debt due to a grand business opportunity that went south.
To be fair, I’m waiting on the R2 as well, but I’m strapping in for first generation fit and finish issues galore. Rivian hasn’t surpassed Tesla in software or aftermarket flexibility.
Not to mention, we probably won’t be able to take delivery until late this year despite paying for a reservation from this past March.
Slate is a good niche, its range is fine for the purpose its supposed to fill
Imagine a fleet of them for a lawncare business paired with a 30-42" standup electric mower rig
Cost of operations would be dittly squat, could be further buffered with solar and replacememt parts dirt cheap. Roi would be extremely quick and then it'd be pure profits
People are already doing that with used Teslas pulling trailers (yeah its funny to see, but the people doing it have shown their numbers and its pretty nuts)
Whats not fine about the Slate is no awd version. On an EV it's a minimal endeavor to make that work so there's really no excuse
Having experienced awd I will never personally own another vehicle without it if I have a choice. Especially a truck. My driving conditions are way too harsh to not have it
The long range model’s EPA range is 240mi, so 120mi while towing, more like 100mi considering that you absolutely cannot run an EV 100 to 0, and that’s best case scenario. That maximum 100mi is not enough for a day of landscaping.
A Bobcat ZS4000 Stand-On Mower 48″ is a 64" long mower for example, so it should juuuust fit in there, but to be safe I mentioned smaller, though personally if I were to do something like this I'd want a greenworks electric, costs half as much as the truck
For sure, you'd see a range drop, but it shouldn't be anywhere near as severe as pulling a trailer
A small standon, a ramp to get it on and off the truck, a rack with a trimmer, edger, hedger, blower, pruner, mini chainsaw, maybe a delta powerbank or gas generator to recharge the tools as you drive about or they're in standby
I'd expect a drop in range about 25-30% with that but not as severe as a pull behind trailer
~130-150 miles of range is doable if you plan the route and cluster clients, which any Semi-competent business owner who could afford a fleet of these would be capable of doing or paying someone to manage the routes
Awd/4x4 is an integral option for those of us who need it. Its not a gimmick, its not a nice to have. Its an it better have one or the other, or its not an option
It's the difference between getting up your drive in bad weather and parking at the end of a 3 mile long dirt road drive and walking home from there, in the dark at the end of a long day, through woodlands in which wild animals are not infrequent visitors, and presumably on top of all of that in markedly bad weather events
A truck, and especially an EV that must be plugged in to charge so you can drive the +70 miles to the nearest town if needed after driving that far to get home doesn't live up to its name or need if it doesn't get you to home or from 999/1,000 times you needed it to
How did that happen? When I worked at the Fremont plant, we were only putting together vehicles that had already been sold. Did they swap from lean manufacturing to the normal, wasteful "just keep making shit perpetually" model? 🤔
GM did the same thing 2008 before it all collapsed.
Along with financial chicanery, the only part of GM that was profitable was GMAC. Their shitty cars are loss-leaders for a predatory finance operation.
Tesla in Canada has parking lots full of cars they registered to grab and incentive, then the CDN government told them to fuck off. Meanwhile, the cars just sit and rot. Tesla is trying to sue, but they don't stand a chance.
Tesla is already half what it was in 2024. it will be dead as a car company by end of 2027, about the time multiple internet satellites will have been launched to kill starlink.
I figured something was up when I got a call out of the blue from the Tesla dealership asking if I wanted to upgrade my 2019 to a newer model. Joke's on them, though. I'm unemployed.
From what Elon says to shareholders, Tesla is going to pivot to becoming a humanoid robot production company anyway, the cars are just a sideline. They axed two models when they announced that.
I was recently browsing an auto listing app for a used EV as I'm thinking about switching to an EV from my ICE hatchback, and the market near me is absolutely flooded with Teslas, primary model 3s. And it's not just "old" ones either. Tons of 2020-2024 models as well.
Fun fact, while shopping for a car in 2022, we looked at a used 2021 bmw x5. I wondered what they replaced it with and the salesman said "oh, he traded it in for a 2022 x5 of the exact same trim". They know him well because every year he comes in and trades in to make sure he is never driving "last year's model".
Particularly stupid because that was the year of shortages where they actually made the new model worse by removing features they couldn't get supply for, other than removing features, the new car was unchanged from prior year.
Used Teslas cost chump change in my country, especially older Model S which is the more luxurious model. Morally, I could justify buying a used one. I still hate the things though. And while I don't care too much about my image, a nazi sympathiser is not something I want to look like.
I'm considering a Jaguar I-Pace or MB EQC instead. But if I can get a REALLY good deal on a used Tesla, I might consider pulling the trigger just because 2 euros per liter of diesel makes me spend twice what my payment on the Tesla would be and I could charge it at home.
Though I do love my current torsen-based Quattro so I'd ideally want an AWD car meaning the ones that fit the bill are about as much as the I-Pace. Which begs the question of which one is actually nicer to drive. Guess I'll have to test drive them both.
Model 3s are some of the best vehicles ever made - extremely safe and powerful with great handling. Also, extremely low cost long term. Buying used is totally fine. Also there’s literally nothing we can do as consumers to affect Elon. Just treat the company as separate from him.
The reality is they can last upwards of 500k miles with minimal maintenance, have excellent power and handling, and are extremely safe in accidents regardless of how many idiot Tesla drivers are crashing their Tesla
There are many high-mileage examples, and Tesla’s battery/drive-unit warranty is long for the segment
Model 3s are among the safer cars in their class, with strong IIHS results and Tesla's low-center-of-gravity EV platform design.
They are objectively quick, with official 0-60 times ranging from 5.8s down to 2.9s depending on trim.
Routine maintenance is relatively light, and EPA data shows very low annual energy cost compared with many gas cars.
Buying used can be reasonable, especially when battery/warranty status is verified, and Tesla's own pre-owned vehicles are inspected and sold with warranty coverage.
There are a lot of really shitty people who have done very good things for science, technology, and humanity throughout history. Elon Musk is inarguably a really shitty person, but he has also been at the center of multiple efforts that materially accelerated technology and improved human capability.
Tesla was one of the biggest forces in dragging EVs out of the fringe and into the mainstream. The IEA projected around 17 million EV sales in 2024, more than one-fifth of all new cars sold worldwide, and the EPA notes that EVs typically have a smaller carbon footprint than gasoline cars even after accounting for battery manufacturing and charging electricity. (IEA)
Battery technology and grid-level storage matter far beyond cars. The IEA notes that grid-scale battery storage has scaled rapidly in recent years and is expected to account for most storage growth worldwide, which is a major part of making grids more stable and better able to absorb renewable power. (IEA)
On self-driving, the honest version is not "he solved autonomy," because fully self-driving consumer cars are still not here. IIHS says Level 4 and 5 vehicles are not available to consumers for purchase, but Tesla has absolutely helped force driver-assistance and autonomy into the center of the industry and push deployment at huge real-world scale; Tesla says its supervised FSD system is trained on data from a fleet of over six million vehicles. (IIHS)
Then there is space. SpaceX made rocket reusability real at operational scale, and NASA has explicitly described reusability as a path to driving launch costs down. Lower launch costs and higher launch cadence directly expand access to space for communications, Earth observation, scientific missions, and the long-term path toward becoming a genuinely spacefaring civilization. (NASA Technical Reports Server)
Starlink also matters. The FCC authorized SpaceX's broadband satellite system to provide broadband service, and that kind of global satellite internet has obvious real-world value for remote and underserved areas and for resilience when terrestrial infrastructure is unavailable. (Federal Communications Commission)
So no, being a shitty person does not erase the fact that the companies he drove helped accelerate EV adoption, battery storage, launch reusability, satellite internet, and the broader push toward a more electrified, connected, and space-capable civilization. You can hate the man and still admit the net technological impact is very large.
It seems like there's a market for a company that will buy Teslas ultra cheap, modifies them heavily, then rebadges them like Alpine does for Renault, AMG does / did for Mercedes, Abarth for Fiat, etc.
These days those are all subsidiaries of the main brand, and even before that they had a cooperative relationship with the main brand. But, I can imagine a setup where the main brand doesn't support or approve of what the modifier company does.
Musk is much more of an Edison than a Tesla. If he'd been honest he would have named his cars Edison. Then, the cool rebadge could have been Tesla. But, even he was smart enough to realize what an asshole Edison was, even if he didn't recognize the Edison in himself.
If the price drops enough I would get one. I would hate to give money to musk, but it is not a bad car (based on the 2 people I know who have owned them for years).
We bought one a fair bit before Musk went full Neo Nazi. It's a great car, the best car I've ever owned. The only repair in nearly 180k km was a known issue covered by warranty. They could be fantastic if the company wasn't run by a moronic, petulant Neo-Nazi.
I wonder how common this is for evs in general. My vehicle has only gone in once for a recall on the windshield wiper motors, nothing else gone wrong.
The last car I had got off that brand needed quite a few repairs, so it's remarkably refreshing to have a car that is just working along.
EVs just seen to be an easier thing to make reliable. Temperatures run much lower, fewer fluids in play, not having to deal with thousands of little explosions every minute...
The battery seems to draw all the headache, but even then reports suggest that conservative battery management systems have made those more reliable than people thought they would be. Probably thanks to the mandatory 100k warranty on batteries, the vendors took it seriously.
Most car dealers have months of inventory, Tesla typically has a couple weeks or less. In the grand scheme of things compared to other automakers this is actually tiny, and they are usually on the bottom of the list of OEM inventory.
For Tesla though, this is higher than usual, and unless most of them are in transit to customers, indicative of an issue.
I wouldn't call them super cheap though they depreciate a lot from the new prices. Lots of quality ICE cars of similar age at lower prices, i.e. they are still expensive cars.
You can get fantastically good deals on used Fiskers. The company is bankrupt but there's a lively community of owners and getting stuff like repair parts isn't hard. I'm slightly tempted but only slightly. What I really want is an EV conversion for an old cargo van, so it would have very few computers inside.
What about the idea of the battery degrading or getting worn out or whatever? I've never owned one and I have sort of zero concept of that. I think they're warranty covers through 150k or something like that?
I own a Honda Fit. It's small, is reasonably petrol efficient, has actual dials and physical knobs for an interface, and needs just basic maintenance to run reliably.
And here I am, still thinking anything but sedans are ugly af. SUVs are the most hideous vehicle I've ever seen. Ugly and absolutely the worst possible kind of shape.
Well 2nd worst. Trucks are worse since they tend to be taller. Plus I've never met a decent person who owns one of those tall ones. They're all just chick size competitions, smallest dick finally wins in their eyes. If you absolutely have to have a truck, get one of those Japanese types that are almost as small as a real car that actually has a bed on it.
Whoever started the trend of trucks getting bigger, taller, and fatter all while the bed is smaller than my tiny cars backseat should actually be executed. How many people are they responsible for killing?
Even sedans have gotten supersized just look a new Accord or Camry vs the older versions. The 3 series is bigger than a e39 5 series the A6 is bigger than the older A8’s.
I own a stick shift Golf Alltrack and I really don’t know what I’d replace it with if it was wrecked, there’s nothing out there at a price I’d be willing to pay that I like.
My last car was a Camry, and it was huge compared to what I remember them as (my mom has an 80s one when I was a kid). I've downsized to a Corolla (after I destroyed the Camry whoopsie) now tho.
And I have no idea what those alphabet/number soup cars even are. If they can't get a real name thae they can go extinct. I'm not learning what an e45 is, or a ZQ73 is.
But yeah they have gotten more unwieldy, and that shit needs to stop.
But what I meant to say got lost in my other point, which was my opinion that even given the most safe shape and sizes possible, I think everything but sedans are ugly, just aesthetically speaking. I understand the practical reasons, but they're all ugly.
The hatchback is for sure. If I could have the hatchback that just visually appears to be a sedan, that'd be peak. It's more practical than a sedan really, but still loses in the looks department.
The reason the trucks keep getting bigger is to meet emissions regulations. Sounds nuts, right? But instead of making them more efficient, they could use a loophole of making them bigger instead, because the law applies in a size vs efficiency ratio, not efficiency by itself.
The Sieg Heiling Space Karen genius could not have foreseen this. Is that right?
Remember when he told his advertisers to fuck off, and then two weeks later sued them because they fucked off? That's the depth of this man's genius!!!
And he lost the case obviously...
That does not prove he is not a genius!!! /s
It took awhile for that to get finished, but it was great to see.
VERY popular in Germany
that salute you mean ?
Yes, although I was obviously being a bit sarcastic - but not really since there's so many neo-nazis over here...
You got to be a special kind of asshole if you’re buying a Tesla these days.
Their Q1 sales were actually up over last year. It's insane.
The same kind of pieces of shit that still use Twitter.
They significantly dropped the prices at the dealerships. A model 3 is now like 36k compared to 50+ last year., but I'd rather walk on glass. We bought a Ford Maverick instead.
Not only that, you sort of have to hate having money.
With the cyber trucks having shit glued on them all over the place the company just seems laughable.
If I'm putting down (potentially) luxury car money I better damned well have a luxury car.
Or an Indian. They fucking love Tesla
I'm in the GTA. Asians here. They fucking love Tesla's.
Random question: GTA? Greater Toronto Area?
Yes
Yeah it's not just Indians:
In 2025:
Favorability / loyalty have dropped across all groups over the past several years.
or Norwegian, First and third biggest selling car there
or Australian
Tesla has 35% market share in Norway.
France saw an increase in Tesla registrations by 203% year over year.
Sweden had a 144% increase in registrations. Denmark had a 96% increase.
In the US, the core demographic remains white male, ~48 years old, with a household income exceeding $140,000, particularly in conservative states (Texas/Florida).
Part of the problem is that competition is still lacking in many ways especially when it comes to charging infrastructure.
The competition is not lacking at all if you've been paying attention. And literally every EV brand can use Tesla chargers now.
Depends how much the average consumer is paying attention. Many probably don't know that every EV can use the Tesla chargers now.
The competition here is certainly constrained. Most car manufacturers are making less EVs due to decreasing overall demand and expirarion of federal EV tax credits.
The real competition is on the other side of the Pacific. Europe and Canada have accepted that on some level while the US continues to artificially prop up its EV market ex-China.
There are legitimate concerns don't get me wrong. But the US won't be able to hide from a more dynamic and competitive product forever.
It’s not even that: a little protectionism is normal trade policy globally. This would be fine, if it were temporary and if there was a goal to develop the domestic industry.
The real problem is the combination of protectionism, while also rejecting the technology change and shrinking down to the home market. The protectionism will stop at some point. Realistically it has to. But when it does, American legacy manufacturers will find themselves struggling to sell buggy whips to a world that sees them as museum displays. We’re trying to milk a few more years out of the legacy technology at the cost of totally ignoring the future
This is absolutely true.
Even with the advent of the Industrial Revolution, Britain initially struggled to compete with the sheer quality and cost-effectiveness of Indian hand-woven fabrics.
They instituted a 100% tariff on importation of Indian fabric to support their nascent mechanized textile manufacturing.
This allowed them to hone the machinery by creating a sandbox to grow their new expertise in. The quality could not match what was produced by hand but the sheer volume and efficiency could easily outdo manual methods.
Over time as they gained political influence, they were able to point guns at and break the thumbs of the right people in India effectively eradicating Indias domestic textile industry.
They then forced Indian markets to accept British cloth with no tariff, making that consumer sandbox bigger.
Minus the colonial / coercive economics at the end there, this is an example of Britain using tariffs very effectively to grow their own industry while taking down a global leader in textiles (one that even the Romans wrote of 1500 years prior).
May well have played out the same without supportive policy, but the protectionism certainly helped them grow their own industry faster and the violent / coercive colonial element helped them remove a traditional, higher quality though analog/manual competitor sooner.
What America is doing is more of a dying empire vibe. Protection for the sake of clinging to the old and familiar way, with no plan or strategy to adapt for the future.
Yeah, I have to say, I still see Tesla as the leader by far here in the us. And given how price of cars has skyrocketed, teslas are now also “affordable”. It’s a shame they seem to be abandoning the car market. There’s finally some EV choice but not much, half of the choice was just cancelled, and most are not good.
Rivian is our best choice for the next compelling EV, but R2 cost significantly more than Tesla.
I hope the R2 works out well. I'm not planning on getting a new car in the near future, so by the time I do, it should have all it's kinks ironed out and be a great towing vehicle for a light camping trailer.
And if you own one from before, the only responsible thing to do is sell it on the used market to reduce demand for their new cars. You might not get the price you want but come on. You could afford a Tesla; I’m not crying for your pocketbook.
I didn’t realize TSLA stock had an upward trend most of last year and is only heading downhill this year.
At this point i no longer care if they lower the price until they're free. They will have to sell them as scrap at a loss. I will never, ever, ever buy a Tesla.
I will drive a free tesla
Right into the ocean
I wouldn't even get in that unopenable-emergency-doors death trap.
At one point I was considering buying a Tesla. Then I didn't like Musk, but felt I could justify buying a used Tesla, as it wasn't giving him any money.
Then Nazi salute and DOGE and lol, nope. I won't even uber a Tesla.
He'll still get money for the subscribable services scam and dealer service.
Oh, don’t worry. He can just buy them from himself using taxpayer money via subsidies from his other company like he did last year. If you’re an American taxpayer, you’ve already bought one.
I'd take a free Tesla. Pull the batteries and drive modules. Scrap the shell, sell the drive modules, use the batteries for home storage.
Elon couldn't pay me to buy a Tesla. I like EVs. It's not about the technology. It's entirely about Elon. I'd rather buy Japanese or South Korean, thank you.
I'd rather buy a Chinese one, but mr Biden made that impossible.
i have a BYD here in Australia.
Legit, how is it? I'm Canadian and they are going to come to market here soonish.
Wait, is he still President with a majority in the House of Reps and Senate since 2025?
Thanks, Obama!
Biden put a 100% tariffs on chinese EVs, making it essentially impossible to import them. not like trump was going to roll those back
Yeah, I hate trump, but the Dems fucked this one up. Also like they've fucked the elections that led to trump.
Which Japanese EV? I'm not aware of any good ones.
Korean ones? Best on the market. If you want the best for a reasonable price, Hyundai or Kia.
I like the Ionic.
Best case under $50k for sure
https://youtu.be/EYoOiVsHJTw
Toyota sells a couple EV models in China for the China market not sure where thier overseas models are made....Toyota has the second biggest selling EV in Norway for example and have that model here in Australia, its actually ok, the previous version was comparatively shitty
https://www.toyota.com.au/bz4x-ev
Subaru have 2 models, a JV with Toyota.
https://evcentral.com.au/subaru-uncharted-and-trailseeker-evs-looking-good-for-australia-watch-this-space-for-some-exciting-announcements-promises-local-subaru-boss/
The bz4x/bz/Solterra is still the worst EV on the road, bar none.
Worst range of all EVs, flip phone quality software center stack, and the same price as a model y. It’s nuts that anyone would buy those pieces of shit.
And they are ugly too, 0 appeal.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Toyota-bZ4X-EV-recall-over-fears-tires-may-fall-off-affects-2-700-units.631463.0.html
That one?
Nah I'd even drive a paintless dumpstertruck over that thanks
Volvo, Rivian, Kia, Chevy, Ford, plenty of ev options that aren't negligently dangerous like Toyota's EVs or Teslas
toyota has a couple (but I’m not sure if they are available in the US)
depends on the definition of paying. is he giving you discount, or is he paying more than the car's worth?
if it is the latter, then i am fine keeping all the fucker's money and set the free teslas on fire.
Well let’s not be too hasty here…
I really despise most everything about him but if Elon were to actually pay me and give me a free car I’d very likely take it. I mean I have principles but I’m not an idiot.
Yeah, you are. The fucking death traps with doors that won't open in a crash and unless you know where the secret escape hatch is you are cremated.
Tesla just fucking lost a lawsuit about this.
Get that free asbestos sweater while you're at it.
I thought that was just the Cybertruck, which yes, I wouldn't drive even if someone gave me one. I'd flip it and buy something else.
I think both the sedan and roadster are okay electric cars, and I think they have enough range I could use them to reduce the amount of gas I burn in my Volt for longer trips.
But, I haven't really been paying attention to Tesla recently, and Elmu has certainly been looking horrible to me.
The problem is the door locks are electric, so if the car loses low voltage power, the buttons to open the doors no longer work. Worse yet, the Model 3 only has emergency physical latches in the front seats, so good luck in the back, kids.
GM has been doing this for over 15 years.
Who wants to buy a vehicle that funds the fourth Reich?
The portion of my family that voted for it.
The same portion that doesn't want an EV at all.
I think there was that brief period of interest when Trump turned the White House driveway into a car dealership ad for Elon. But yeah, you're right. They're all gas-fueled motorheads.
This is what I see as well. The pro-musk US group hates EVs. The pro-EV US group hates Elon. Then there's the other 60% of the country that doesn't have a strong enough opinion to post about it online. I am surrounded by new Teslas despite being a in very blue city metro. It's obvious because the 3/Y got a facelift during the height of the musk/trump romance
They're already sitting on them, they should finish the job and shove them right up their asses.
Reading Tesla workers shared images from car cameras, including “scenes of intimacy” was enough to put me off Tesla. The build quality being garbage and Musk also being a garbage human being make the company just a complete waste of space.
It's funny how that wasn't really a problem until they found that bond underwater car in a garage recorded by a tesla and it belonged to nazi musk.
Hail Tesla model SS
I thought Tesla was going to start building robots, instead of cars.
/somewhat sarcastically
This is my stupid fucking friend who can’t get off Elons nuts at all. It’s fucking sad. He literally bought a model Y the other day despite me telling him Rivian is about to release a competitor because he thinks he can add it to the robo taxi fleet in a year or two. God I love him and am sick of this shit.
This anecdote provides insight to Tesla's remaining sales strategy. Like the stock itself, all there appears to be is hype and promise.
I have one of those
friendsacquittances. Glow in his eyes when he talks about Elons great deeds. He also just bought a Y-model, because Elon was treated unfairly, even though he's in large debt due to a grand business opportunity that went south.To be fair, we will have full self driving by the end of the year, according to Elon every single year for the last decade.
Now we will have robots by the end of the year.
Facts.
To be fair, I’m waiting on the R2 as well, but I’m strapping in for first generation fit and finish issues galore. Rivian hasn’t surpassed Tesla in software or aftermarket flexibility.
Not to mention, we probably won’t be able to take delivery until late this year despite paying for a reservation from this past March.
Surpass Tesla in software?
Most of us want less software not more
That's why everyone is so hyped about Slate. Less of this garbage is a paid feature these days.
What? No fart button on the tablet?
No one is hyped about Slate. Europe has better EVs for less already.
file Slate along with:
Canoo
Bollinger
Aptera
Nikola
Telo
and another dozen bullshit US EV companies.
The slate software is in no way going to be the industry standard. Car manufacturers are all looking to create parasitic software for their cars.
Slate is DOA based solely on how terrible the range will be.
Slate is a good niche, its range is fine for the purpose its supposed to fill
Imagine a fleet of them for a lawncare business paired with a 30-42" standup electric mower rig
Cost of operations would be dittly squat, could be further buffered with solar and replacememt parts dirt cheap. Roi would be extremely quick and then it'd be pure profits
People are already doing that with used Teslas pulling trailers (yeah its funny to see, but the people doing it have shown their numbers and its pretty nuts)
Whats not fine about the Slate is no awd version. On an EV it's a minimal endeavor to make that work so there's really no excuse
Having experienced awd I will never personally own another vehicle without it if I have a choice. Especially a truck. My driving conditions are way too harsh to not have it
The long range model’s EPA range is 240mi, so 120mi while towing, more like 100mi considering that you absolutely cannot run an EV 100 to 0, and that’s best case scenario. That maximum 100mi is not enough for a day of landscaping.
Not talking about towing
Talking about a bedspace only, 1-2 man crew setup
A Bobcat ZS4000 Stand-On Mower 48″ is a 64" long mower for example, so it should juuuust fit in there, but to be safe I mentioned smaller, though personally if I were to do something like this I'd want a greenworks electric, costs half as much as the truck
For sure, you'd see a range drop, but it shouldn't be anywhere near as severe as pulling a trailer
A small standon, a ramp to get it on and off the truck, a rack with a trimmer, edger, hedger, blower, pruner, mini chainsaw, maybe a delta powerbank or gas generator to recharge the tools as you drive about or they're in standby
I'd expect a drop in range about 25-30% with that but not as severe as a pull behind trailer
~130-150 miles of range is doable if you plan the route and cluster clients, which any Semi-competent business owner who could afford a fleet of these would be capable of doing or paying someone to manage the routes
AWD is only a thing in stupid vehicle designs where they put all the weight up front, and the drive wheels at the back.
An EV truck has proper weight distribution, AWD would offer no advantage, just add weight and cost more.
Awd/4x4 is an integral option for those of us who need it. Its not a gimmick, its not a nice to have. Its an it better have one or the other, or its not an option
It's the difference between getting up your drive in bad weather and parking at the end of a 3 mile long dirt road drive and walking home from there, in the dark at the end of a long day, through woodlands in which wild animals are not infrequent visitors, and presumably on top of all of that in markedly bad weather events
A truck, and especially an EV that must be plugged in to charge so you can drive the +70 miles to the nearest town if needed after driving that far to get home doesn't live up to its name or need if it doesn't get you to home or from 999/1,000 times you needed it to
How did that happen? When I worked at the Fremont plant, we were only putting together vehicles that had already been sold. Did they swap from lean manufacturing to the normal, wasteful "just keep making shit perpetually" model? 🤔
They are cashing in production tax incentives and cooking the books. GM did the same thing 2008 before it all collapsed.
Elon was hoping everyone would just forget his antics.
He’s trying to wrap it all under SpaceX and walk away with a bag when it goes public.
Along with financial chicanery, the only part of GM that was profitable was GMAC. Their shitty cars are loss-leaders for a predatory finance operation.
Tesla in Canada has parking lots full of cars they registered to grab and incentive, then the CDN government told them to fuck off. Meanwhile, the cars just sit and rot. Tesla is trying to sue, but they don't stand a chance.
Tesla is already half what it was in 2024. it will be dead as a car company by end of 2027, about the time multiple internet satellites will have been launched to kill starlink.
Destroys them all because unprofitable to sell, whines about major loss, demands government bailout.
I would rather walk than buy a tesla
I would rather crawl over broken glass than give money to Nazi Musk for one of his Swasticars
I figured something was up when I got a call out of the blue from the Tesla dealership asking if I wanted to upgrade my 2019 to a newer model. Joke's on them, though. I'm unemployed.
Thats after they got spacex to buy a large number of them.
From what Elon says to shareholders, Tesla is going to pivot to becoming a humanoid robot production company anyway, the cars are just a sideline. They axed two models when they announced that.
Tesla is a
car companyTesla is a
battery companyTesla is a robot company <---- you are here
car companybattery companycompanyOne can hope at least
2028: Florida man's penis burned off in Tesla sexbot.
Don’t forget when they were a roofing company, too.
Anecdote:
I was recently browsing an auto listing app for a used EV as I'm thinking about switching to an EV from my ICE hatchback, and the market near me is absolutely flooded with Teslas, primary model 3s. And it's not just "old" ones either. Tons of 2020-2024 models as well.
there are people in the world who buy new car because their 2 year old one is already too old.
I cant imagine having a perpetual car payment like that. I paid mine off years ago and its great.
Fun fact, while shopping for a car in 2022, we looked at a used 2021 bmw x5. I wondered what they replaced it with and the salesman said "oh, he traded it in for a 2022 x5 of the exact same trim". They know him well because every year he comes in and trades in to make sure he is never driving "last year's model".
Particularly stupid because that was the year of shortages where they actually made the new model worse by removing features they couldn't get supply for, other than removing features, the new car was unchanged from prior year.
Used Teslas cost chump change in my country, especially older Model S which is the more luxurious model. Morally, I could justify buying a used one. I still hate the things though. And while I don't care too much about my image, a nazi sympathiser is not something I want to look like.
I'm considering a Jaguar I-Pace or MB EQC instead. But if I can get a REALLY good deal on a used Tesla, I might consider pulling the trigger just because 2 euros per liter of diesel makes me spend twice what my payment on the Tesla would be and I could charge it at home.
Though I do love my current torsen-based Quattro so I'd ideally want an AWD car meaning the ones that fit the bill are about as much as the I-Pace. Which begs the question of which one is actually nicer to drive. Guess I'll have to test drive them both.
You couldn't pay me to drive one.
Model 3s are some of the best vehicles ever made - extremely safe and powerful with great handling. Also, extremely low cost long term. Buying used is totally fine. Also there’s literally nothing we can do as consumers to affect Elon. Just treat the company as separate from him.
https://www.motor1.com/news/781164/tesla-used-car-reliability-rankings/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevebanker/2025/02/11/tesla-again-has-the-highest-accident-rate-of-any-auto-brand/
🤡
The reality is they can last upwards of 500k miles with minimal maintenance, have excellent power and handling, and are extremely safe in accidents regardless of how many idiot Tesla drivers are crashing their Tesla
There are many high-mileage examples, and Tesla’s battery/drive-unit warranty is long for the segment
https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/tesla/model-3-4-door-sedan/2025
https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks/2025/all/tesla
https://www.tesla.com/model3
https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-E95DAAD9-646E-4249-9930-B109ED7B1D91.html
https://www.tesla.com/support/ordering-pre-owned-tesla
https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&baseModel=Model+3&make=Tesla&pageno=1&path=1&rowLimit=50&srchtyp=ymm&year1=2022&year2=2024
https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-3
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2024-tesla-model-3-highland-first-drive-review
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2024-tesla-model-3-highland-standard-range-first-test-review
There are a lot of really shitty people who have done very good things for science, technology, and humanity throughout history. Elon Musk is inarguably a really shitty person, but he has also been at the center of multiple efforts that materially accelerated technology and improved human capability.
Tesla was one of the biggest forces in dragging EVs out of the fringe and into the mainstream. The IEA projected around 17 million EV sales in 2024, more than one-fifth of all new cars sold worldwide, and the EPA notes that EVs typically have a smaller carbon footprint than gasoline cars even after accounting for battery manufacturing and charging electricity. (IEA)
Battery technology and grid-level storage matter far beyond cars. The IEA notes that grid-scale battery storage has scaled rapidly in recent years and is expected to account for most storage growth worldwide, which is a major part of making grids more stable and better able to absorb renewable power. (IEA)
On self-driving, the honest version is not "he solved autonomy," because fully self-driving consumer cars are still not here. IIHS says Level 4 and 5 vehicles are not available to consumers for purchase, but Tesla has absolutely helped force driver-assistance and autonomy into the center of the industry and push deployment at huge real-world scale; Tesla says its supervised FSD system is trained on data from a fleet of over six million vehicles. (IIHS)
Then there is space. SpaceX made rocket reusability real at operational scale, and NASA has explicitly described reusability as a path to driving launch costs down. Lower launch costs and higher launch cadence directly expand access to space for communications, Earth observation, scientific missions, and the long-term path toward becoming a genuinely spacefaring civilization. (NASA Technical Reports Server)
Starlink also matters. The FCC authorized SpaceX's broadband satellite system to provide broadband service, and that kind of global satellite internet has obvious real-world value for remote and underserved areas and for resilience when terrestrial infrastructure is unavailable. (Federal Communications Commission)
So no, being a shitty person does not erase the fact that the companies he drove helped accelerate EV adoption, battery storage, launch reusability, satellite internet, and the broader push toward a more electrified, connected, and space-capable civilization. You can hate the man and still admit the net technological impact is very large.
Sources:
https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2024/trends-in-electric-cars
https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths
https://www.iea.org/energy-system/electricity/grid-scale-storage
https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/advanced-driver-assistance
https://www.tesla.com/fsd
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20160013370/downloads/20160013370.pdf
https://nstxl.org/reducing-the-cost-of-space-travel-with-reusable-launch-vehicles/
https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-authorizes-spacex-provide-broadband-satellite-services
https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-approves-next-gen-satellite-constellation
Hold the line
It seems like there's a market for a company that will buy Teslas ultra cheap, modifies them heavily, then rebadges them like Alpine does for Renault, AMG does / did for Mercedes, Abarth for Fiat, etc.
These days those are all subsidiaries of the main brand, and even before that they had a cooperative relationship with the main brand. But, I can imagine a setup where the main brand doesn't support or approve of what the modifier company does.
I suggest the rebadged name should be Antifa.
Even better, Tesla and all other Musk businesses should be forced into bankruptcy.
Shouldn't a rebadged Tesla be an Edison?
Already taken.
Musk is much more of an Edison than a Tesla. If he'd been honest he would have named his cars Edison. Then, the cool rebadge could have been Tesla. But, even he was smart enough to realize what an asshole Edison was, even if he didn't recognize the Edison in himself.
Musk didn't name Tesla, did he? I'm pretty sure he bought it, like he buys every company. He's not a good idea guy.
Considering that they use DC internally Tesla was never a good name.
Oopsy.. I want the Tesla batteries, so I can use it has my home battery.
When you've schucked the battery, can I have the drive units, electronic brake booster and airconditioning components?
I want to EV my whip pretty bad.
If the price drops enough I would get one. I would hate to give money to musk, but it is not a bad car (based on the 2 people I know who have owned them for years).
We bought one a fair bit before Musk went full Neo Nazi. It's a great car, the best car I've ever owned. The only repair in nearly 180k km was a known issue covered by warranty. They could be fantastic if the company wasn't run by a moronic, petulant Neo-Nazi.
I wonder how common this is for evs in general. My vehicle has only gone in once for a recall on the windshield wiper motors, nothing else gone wrong.
The last car I had got off that brand needed quite a few repairs, so it's remarkably refreshing to have a car that is just working along.
EVs just seen to be an easier thing to make reliable. Temperatures run much lower, fewer fluids in play, not having to deal with thousands of little explosions every minute...
The battery seems to draw all the headache, but even then reports suggest that conservative battery management systems have made those more reliable than people thought they would be. Probably thanks to the mandatory 100k warranty on batteries, the vendors took it seriously.
You could buy used not from Tesla if you did decide to buy in the future. Can get a great car and not pad their books.
Isn't that like 50k x 20k$ (rough costs estimate) = 1B$ of slowly realizing losses?
Most car dealers have months of inventory, Tesla typically has a couple weeks or less. In the grand scheme of things compared to other automakers this is actually tiny, and they are usually on the bottom of the list of OEM inventory.
For Tesla though, this is higher than usual, and unless most of them are in transit to customers, indicative of an issue.
Edit: Just for reference.
Q4 2024 - 12 days
Q1 2025 - 22 days
Q2 2025 - 24 days
Q3 2025 - 10 days
Q4-2025 -15 days
Its not very much, Chrysler had over a million vehicles in stock 18 months ago.
Noe I am curious how much quicker batteries degrade being idle than ICE engines.
I am hoping these end up as ICE vehicles. 🔒 🔥
I think that’s external combustion, but I get your point
And then Trump closes the Straight of Hormuz and ev sales increase. The question is whether Tesla gets a boost.
Luckily there are a lot of nice EVs from better brands!
Does anyone have a good basic tip on how to buy one at a discount?
Buy used, they devalue like rocks
I wouldn't call them super cheap though they depreciate a lot from the new prices. Lots of quality ICE cars of similar age at lower prices, i.e. they are still expensive cars.
You can get fantastically good deals on used Fiskers. The company is bankrupt but there's a lively community of owners and getting stuff like repair parts isn't hard. I'm slightly tempted but only slightly. What I really want is an EV conversion for an old cargo van, so it would have very few computers inside.
you are a endless pool of bad advice.
What about the idea of the battery degrading or getting worn out or whatever? I've never owned one and I have sort of zero concept of that. I think they're warranty covers through 150k or something like that?
Battery is not the problem, it's the flimsy gadgetry in the rest of the car, and the motors.
Theft. Dealerships hate this one weird trick!
The whole industry can burn, but especially Tesla
Wait, wat? I get Tesla but whole industry?
The average price of a new car is 50k.
The US car industry makes almost no actual cars since sedans and wagons don’t make much money per vehicle.
The whole fucking industry deserves to go out of business, and the laws that incentivized building trucks needs to go with it.
That's a very US-centric view of car industry
I have a European car rant too, I did live in Germany for 20 years
II absolutely love that multilingual in the language of rant. You deserve more ups than I can give.
I'm interested
Why the fuck is the are cars like the golf, 206 etc the size of a Passat from 20ish years ago.
Why is BMW building a fat front wheel drive called the 2 series.
Why can’t VAG produce anything quality it doesn’t matter if it’s a Skoda or an Audi they’ve all tuned into low quality shit.
Why are reasonable midsized cars in Europe now crossover SUV’s?
Basically it boils down to everything has gotten big, fat, and overpriced have you even seen a Polo?
Fuck the entire German car industry they’ve betrayed what made people like them to chase trends and extra profits
And finally fuck me because I own two VW’s and Two BMW’s
I own a Honda Fit. It's small, is reasonably petrol efficient, has actual dials and physical knobs for an interface, and needs just basic maintenance to run reliably.
Of course they've been discontinued in Canada.
Nice, I like your points and your style
And here I am, still thinking anything but sedans are ugly af. SUVs are the most hideous vehicle I've ever seen. Ugly and absolutely the worst possible kind of shape.
Well 2nd worst. Trucks are worse since they tend to be taller. Plus I've never met a decent person who owns one of those tall ones. They're all just chick size competitions, smallest dick finally wins in their eyes. If you absolutely have to have a truck, get one of those Japanese types that are almost as small as a real car that actually has a bed on it.
Whoever started the trend of trucks getting bigger, taller, and fatter all while the bed is smaller than my tiny cars backseat should actually be executed. How many people are they responsible for killing?
Even sedans have gotten supersized just look a new Accord or Camry vs the older versions. The 3 series is bigger than a e39 5 series the A6 is bigger than the older A8’s.
I own a stick shift Golf Alltrack and I really don’t know what I’d replace it with if it was wrecked, there’s nothing out there at a price I’d be willing to pay that I like.
My last car was a Camry, and it was huge compared to what I remember them as (my mom has an 80s one when I was a kid). I've downsized to a Corolla (after I destroyed the Camry whoopsie) now tho.
And I have no idea what those alphabet/number soup cars even are. If they can't get a real name thae they can go extinct. I'm not learning what an e45 is, or a ZQ73 is.
But yeah they have gotten more unwieldy, and that shit needs to stop.
But what I meant to say got lost in my other point, which was my opinion that even given the most safe shape and sizes possible, I think everything but sedans are ugly, just aesthetically speaking. I understand the practical reasons, but they're all ugly.
SUVs are not practical. Hatchbacks or wagon sedans are practical.
SUVs are just big to give the impression of value and to sell to an increasingly obese demographic.
The hatchback is for sure. If I could have the hatchback that just visually appears to be a sedan, that'd be peak. It's more practical than a sedan really, but still loses in the looks department.
The reason the trucks keep getting bigger is to meet emissions regulations. Sounds nuts, right? But instead of making them more efficient, they could use a loophole of making them bigger instead, because the law applies in a size vs efficiency ratio, not efficiency by itself.
Damn, fuck that.
https://youtu.be/I-HqgdJAcLs at 7 minutes in they talk about the efficiency loophole issue.
It is insane how "make everything worse" makes them clear the emissions bar.