For most users, kernel js kinda invisible. Whatever program you run interacts with the system via the kernel. Kernel manages hardware and links software with hardware.
And all the other programs you can launch, built around the kernel which together make it functional is the rest of the OS.
Linux is the kernal, the bit of the OS responsible for interacting with hardware and organising processes that run
GNU packages are a collection of small software programs that are present in virtually every Linux distro (things like bash, grep, and libc) that are needed to make the OS do useful things.
together they make up "GNU/Linux", which is often shortened to simply Linux. Which is fine, people will understand what you're talking about from context, and only pedantic asshats will correct you in general conversation. This is the internet though and you're bound to run into a pedantic asshat from time to time.
Thanks for this explanation. This was my understanding as well, except for the GNU part.
I asked because the parent commenter directly above my first comment made the distinction between the operating system and the kernel. I wasn't actually sure what the overall umbrella "OS" was for Linux, since as you say the kernel is Linux while there are GNU packages. I can't really recall someone on Lemmy saying what exactly the operating system is for any given computer that happens to run Linux as the kernel.
I guess this scratches at what the definition of an operating system is: Windows, macOS, or GNU/Linux. In reality, doesn't Windows run on the Unix kernel? Why don't we call it Windows/Unix then? Is Unix used with other "operating systems" that layer on top of the Unix kernel itself?
I went to school for electrical engineering btw and had to take many classes about digital logic and all of the entry level stuff about PCs at a hardware level. Didn't really get taught much about what goes on top of the hardware aside from maybe microcontrollers with Assembly and C.
I think if I were to spend the time analyzing my conversations over the last 6 months I would probably find I spend a lot of time having conversations about why people should explicitly never use a Windows OS.
I'm here to start a flame war and say Debian is old and gross and Fedora is clearly the way forward. And fuck it while were here, dont use the regular Fedora workstation, use the KDE spin, GNOME bad!
I had a very niche problem on Fedora once that I was personally unable to solve, therefore the entire project is trash and everyone should use CachyOS which I haven't managed to break yet!
And even though I see you clearly trolling I am here to still try to convince you why Debian objectively clearly has the superior package management 😁.
Moving to Debian from Ubuntu was like moving from Windows to Linux again for me. It basically removes all the bloat and adware and just left the things I actually like, which I assume Ubuntu inherited from Debian anyway.
But to be fair I just use my Debian machine for writing projects, research, and flash cards.
Im comfortable with Ubuntu, and have no curiosity to try another distro. But if I ever have the inclination to try something else, I know Lemmy will have kind people to guide me.
The real red pill is that distros are only different people in two aspects: convenience and degree of control. Only thing that matters is we're on the side of freedom
A friend of mine had a party at her place on the most recent new years eve, there were several people who I hadn't met before there and we quickly realised we were all Linux users and, of course, absolute fucking nerds (I mean that with pride and appreciation).
She is very much not a nerd in that way and most others there weren't too. It took about 15 minutes before she threw her hands up in the air and said "guys, this isn't fun for anyone else, if you really need to only talk about operating systems and shit like that you'll have to leave. Everyone else wants to hang with you guys too but no one can if you keep this in-group thing going."
And, yeah, we all understood her view. Of course we put up a playful fight though, first acting all disappointed and then saying "ok, ok, we'll leave then. Have fun being all boring and stuff without us cool kids" etc. which it took her a while to realise wasn't serious, heh.
For the rest of the night we had to stop ourselves several times from getting back into it, both among ourselves and with other people.
All of it was great though, and made some new Linux geek friends!
It's quite simple; we're trying to find our lost comrades. I had a magical moment when not one, but two people who joined my group on an MMO were using CachyOS. It's like meeting your triplets separated at birth.
I remember seeing this meme a few years ago before I started using linux, and I showed this to a buddy and we were like "yeah lmao who the fuck goes around recommending OSs to people?".
Today I think "who the fuck goes around recommending Windows to people?"
Twelve years ago, when XP released, there was legitimately a decision to be made what with nine distinct versions of the OS available. That still hasn't stopped even in the modern day. So I could see people discussing exactly which version of Win10/11 they needed and then recommending others based on their experience.
But it's sort of like the BMW that comes with a subscription to heated seats and ABS. Like, why would you subject yourselves to this kind of abuse in an OS?
Even if we assumed Windows was worth using, I'm not sure I would need to explicitly recommend "use the thing that's everywhere already". If we're talking about Linux distros, we've already moved on from the standard and into the realm of other options, but the norm generally needs no advertising.
A friend asks you: hey, my Windows 7 laptop is getting old, the new ones are all on Windows 10, would you recommend it? Or should I consider a MacBook instead? I really like that Mac has virtual desktops, which my laptop didn't have.
This is the situation they are asking about. Are you answering:
"Actually Windows 10 has virtual desktops, so if that was the only reason for you to learn a new environment and move to Mac, then it might be simpler to choose Windows 10".
or
"Nah, they put a lot of spyware in Windows 10, pick something else".
I get what you're saying. I feel like the more you have to work to conjure up a situation where this would be asked, the less likely I'm to recommend it, but under the premise that I find myself in one of those situations...
Well, given that the impending switch from Win7 to Win10 is what made me drop Windows entirely and rather try my luck with gaming on Linux, you can guess my answer :D
TBF, almost everyone I work with uses Linux. There's virtually no conversation about it. It's just what it is, like even the weather is more deserving of discussion.
What timing, after seeing the news about Windows 12 yesterday, this morning I was considering starting a conversation with the researchers at work about pressuring the scientific instrument companies they buy from to support Linux. The one facility in the building that has Bruker instruments runs AlmaLinux, and they've been spared from all the pain.
Who are you to order me to stop doing what I wasn't doing? Windows 11 is such a giant piece of shit, that this kind of article rings too true. If anything, take it as a cautionary tale and change course so that Windows 12 (or whatever it's called) isn't worse.
Okay people: Win 10 is infinitely better than Win 11, so like if you're one of the few eccentric people that for some reason is required to use Win🅱️ows
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler
Okay so previously I tried PopOS and it kinda works but when I tried playing games (tetr.io to be exact) my framerate is half of my monitor's refresh rate and I had no idea how to fix it and at the time I'm using absolutely proprietary software required for my university and dual booting is a nightmare to deal with for some reason with Windows; and then at one point I also tried Bazzite, and no matter what I did, tetr.io would always operate on my iGPU and not on my discrete GPU (thanks NoVIDIA!!1!), so after that I dunno I'll just probably stick to Win 10 until I got a proper PC, and that's a whole story to have and I don't want another yapping session about that
:::
For the problems you encountered: the refresh rate can be set in the monitor settings. If you can't go any higher, then there might be a problem with your graphics drivers. It is also important to add that Pop!OS is based on Ubuntu, which can take ages to implement modern changes. For Gaming I would generally recommend a rolling release distro, maybe it be OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, Fedora, etc... Otherwise you might not get the cutting edge tech that you need.
As for Tetr.io: it seems to be a problem with Vulcan, namely that improperly configured drivers will use the iGPU by default. How do you install/run that game?
"How likely are you to recommend putting your hand up to the elbow in this wood chipper?"
Like, if you're in the business of building PCs? I definitely understand swapping build tips with friends and colleagues. Even strictly within the "No Linux Allowed" space, there's no shortage of online tutorials and consultants recommending this or that version of Microsoft.
But Win10 is going away and Win11 is so fucking bad...
That comment was basically Microsoft's business plan ever since like windows 8 until they made it no longer true by making windows so bad "what OS should I use" did become a topic, at least with the nerdier segment of the population.
Though on the other hand, that 90%+ segment of the population still doesn't gaf other than "why are computers so hard?" style complaints.
They do, don't they? People would complain about certain things of Windows or MacOS not working. And if it fits the situation, recommendation might me voiced.
I thought with them it was more about the entire device than just the OS. People might say they love their mac but nobody is telling friends & family to just install macOS on that old PC that's losing Microsoft support.
To be fair I wouldn‘t feel comfortable recommending a specific distro to someone. At least not long term. I do recommend giving Linux a try though and Mint is a good starter to see if you can imagine using Linux full time. But I really can‘t recommend using Arch to everyone. Other people have entirely different needs than I do.
Do you have a few minutes to talk about our Lord and Saviour, Linus Torvalds?
Richard Stallman*
The meme said Linux users, not GNU/Linux.
It also said operating systems, not kernels.
As a Linux n00b, now I need to know which is the kernel and which is the OS.
For most users, kernel js kinda invisible. Whatever program you run interacts with the system via the kernel. Kernel manages hardware and links software with hardware.
And all the other programs you can launch, built around the kernel which together make it functional is the rest of the OS.
The long and short of it is this:
Thanks for this explanation. This was my understanding as well, except for the GNU part.
I asked because the parent commenter directly above my first comment made the distinction between the operating system and the kernel. I wasn't actually sure what the overall umbrella "OS" was for Linux, since as you say the kernel is Linux while there are GNU packages. I can't really recall someone on Lemmy saying what exactly the operating system is for any given computer that happens to run Linux as the kernel.
I guess this scratches at what the definition of an operating system is: Windows, macOS, or GNU/Linux. In reality, doesn't Windows run on the Unix kernel? Why don't we call it Windows/Unix then? Is Unix used with other "operating systems" that layer on top of the Unix kernel itself?
I went to school for electrical engineering btw and had to take many classes about digital logic and all of the entry level stuff about PCs at a hardware level. Didn't really get taught much about what goes on top of the hardware aside from maybe microcontrollers with Assembly and C.
Thanks anyways!
✨ Linchard Starvalds ✨
Bold move to combine their names and then give it those damn "we've forced AI into this" sparkles, lol.
The linux kernel was invented by Linus Nostallman.
The pedo apologist?
ex-
Ex-pedo? I’d half believe it.
ex-apologist. he's gone on record saying that his statements were based on ignorance and that he had talked to a child psychologist to learn more.
What kind of statements were his?
That if someone freely gives consent but is underage, it's not immoral.
The Father -> Richard Stallman
The Son -> Linus Torvalds
The Holy Ghost -> GNU+Linux
The Holy Temple -> Arch Linux
Holy Temple is of course Temple OS.
Debian, blasphemer.
You, a Heretic, after the inquisition is done with you:
Filthy heretic!
Never before have I been so offended by something I one hundred percent agree with.
I think if I were to spend the time analyzing my conversations over the last 6 months I would probably find I spend a lot of time having conversations about why people should explicitly never use a Windows OS.
Oh damn, you're right!
On another note: have you spent any time considering how to install Linux on ... literally everything?
Like a potato?
Puppy Linux will just about run on a potato.
and probably like, really fast.
all that sweet potato ram
You mean yam?
I bet the sfs file tucks right under the skin.
Sweet Potato RAM vs. Regular Potato RAM is a controversial topic
Absolutely!
Linux people are polite enough to not react when I tell them I use Ubuntu.
Windows people think I am a geeky nerd that knows how to code when I tell them I use Ubuntu.
If you’ve been enjoying Ubuntu so far I randomly want to recommend Debian to you. ☺️
I'm here to start a flame war and say Debian is old and gross and Fedora is clearly the way forward. And fuck it while were here, dont use the regular Fedora workstation, use the KDE spin, GNOME bad!
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler /j :::
I didn’t realize spoiler links were possible and took the bait 🫠
That is okay you are forgiven 🤣
Debian is a fine choice.
I had a very niche problem on Fedora once that I was personally unable to solve, therefore the entire project is trash and everyone should use CachyOS which I haven't managed to break yet!
I want to downvote and upvote you at the same time.
And even though I see you clearly trolling I am here to still try to convince you why Debian objectively clearly has the superior package management 😁.
The only people that I know that use Debian are over 50 years old
Not even dirty 30 yet baybee!
Hey! I’m not 50 yet!
Though not far off TBF.
Well, now you don’t.
Moving to Debian from Ubuntu was like moving from Windows to Linux again for me. It basically removes all the bloat and adware and just left the things I actually like, which I assume Ubuntu inherited from Debian anyway.
But to be fair I just use my Debian machine for writing projects, research, and flash cards.
I recently had a similar experience. I used Linux Mint for the longest time, which is ubuntu based. And I tried LMDE for a little bit recently.
But then I decided to try straight Debian 13 w/ KDE Plasma. I absolutely love it, and I'm old enough that seeing
just feels cozy and correct. Plus like you said the speed and stability are somehow even better, but that I had issues before.
Im comfortable with Ubuntu, and have no curiosity to try another distro. But if I ever have the inclination to try something else, I know Lemmy will have kind people to guide me.
Can’t argue with that, glad you’re enjoying it 👍
Just glad you're on our side mate.
This is one of the typical reactions when people hear about Ubuntu
Monkeys, together strong
Most if not all linux users i know irl use ubuntu and dont know much of other distros.
I'm persuading some of turning to the right side of history and join Debian
The real red pill is that distros are only different people in two aspects: convenience and degree of control. Only thing that matters is we're on the side of freedom
A friend of mine had a party at her place on the most recent new years eve, there were several people who I hadn't met before there and we quickly realised we were all Linux users and, of course, absolute fucking nerds (I mean that with pride and appreciation).
She is very much not a nerd in that way and most others there weren't too. It took about 15 minutes before she threw her hands up in the air and said "guys, this isn't fun for anyone else, if you really need to only talk about operating systems and shit like that you'll have to leave. Everyone else wants to hang with you guys too but no one can if you keep this in-group thing going."
And, yeah, we all understood her view. Of course we put up a playful fight though, first acting all disappointed and then saying "ok, ok, we'll leave then. Have fun being all boring and stuff without us cool kids" etc. which it took her a while to realise wasn't serious, heh.
For the rest of the night we had to stop ourselves several times from getting back into it, both among ourselves and with other people. All of it was great though, and made some new Linux geek friends!
That's crazy to imagine a party where you can be kicked out for having a conversation on anything 'too niche' especially where the bar is that low.
Irl The Big Bang Theory
As I read through this I thought you were going to say y'all left and went to a bar together.
It'd be a better embellishment of the story.
It's quite simple; we're trying to find our lost comrades. I had a magical moment when not one, but two people who joined my group on an MMO were using CachyOS. It's like meeting your triplets separated at birth.
You only find out if you bring it up, lol.
I'm willing to recommend Windows 10 to someone who considers "upgrading" to Windows 11.
Windows 7 was peak Windows. It was all downhill from there.
Disagree. It was XP.
Facts
I remember seeing this meme a few years ago before I started using linux, and I showed this to a buddy and we were like "yeah lmao who the fuck goes around recommending OSs to people?".
Today I think "who the fuck goes around recommending Windows to people?"
Twelve years ago, when XP released, there was legitimately a decision to be made what with nine distinct versions of the OS available. That still hasn't stopped even in the modern day. So I could see people discussing exactly which version of Win10/11 they needed and then recommending others based on their experience.
But it's sort of like the BMW that comes with a subscription to heated seats and ABS. Like, why would you subject yourselves to this kind of abuse in an OS?
They are using the wrong kind of Linux! My kind of Linux is superior, because it’s broken in a different way and more difficult than yours.
Sloperating systems
I try not to recommend Linux to everyone all the time, I’m trying very loudly.
I thought Linux was a way of life. Not an OS?
Linux is actually a kernel.
THE KERNEL OF TRUTH 🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧
Uhh, it's GNU/Linux actually
If you wanted people to say the other part you shouldn't have given the other part a dumb name.
It's not a dumb name, it's a recursive acronym. That's awesome.
Maybe if there were a hundred different Windows 10s, and all of them were really good, we would be recommending Windows 10 distros to each other
Even if we assumed Windows was worth using, I'm not sure I would need to explicitly recommend "use the thing that's everywhere already". If we're talking about Linux distros, we've already moved on from the standard and into the realm of other options, but the norm generally needs no advertising.
How likely are you to recommend using computer?
Hello fellow kids, I highly recommend using computer.
I don't. It does bad things for you. A lot of my frustration these days is about things I see using computer.
A friend asks you: hey, my Windows 7 laptop is getting old, the new ones are all on Windows 10, would you recommend it? Or should I consider a MacBook instead? I really like that Mac has virtual desktops, which my laptop didn't have.
This is the situation they are asking about. Are you answering:
"Actually Windows 10 has virtual desktops, so if that was the only reason for you to learn a new environment and move to Mac, then it might be simpler to choose Windows 10".
or
"Nah, they put a lot of spyware in Windows 10, pick something else".
I get what you're saying. I feel like the more you have to work to conjure up a situation where this would be asked, the less likely I'm to recommend it, but under the premise that I find myself in one of those situations...
Well, given that the impending switch from Win7 to Win10 is what made me drop Windows entirely and rather try my luck with gaming on Linux, you can guess my answer :D
Have you guys hurd about the new release for 64bits... 🙃
Was that pun intended?
Indeed 🫣
TBF, almost everyone I work with uses Linux. There's virtually no conversation about it. It's just what it is, like even the weather is more deserving of discussion.
I work a job at an airport assisting the elderly and disabled with wheelchair assistance.
I cannot tell you, literally cannot tell you how many people sit in my wheelchair, and IMMEDIATELY start talking about the weather.
Uggghhhhhh!
I would be pleasantly surprised if the conversation instead was like this:
"So, hows your day going?"
"I murdered my wife and kids last night. Then I ate their corpses..."
"Really? That's fantastic. Hey, what operating system are you using?"
Weather or not you should switch to this distro
Ever since switching I've needed to hold myself back from mentioning it in every conversation. I thought it was a meme, but it's real!
What timing, after seeing the news about Windows 12 yesterday, this morning I was considering starting a conversation with the researchers at work about pressuring the scientific instrument companies they buy from to support Linux. The one facility in the building that has Bruker instruments runs AlmaLinux, and they've been spared from all the pain.
What was the news about windows?
Windows 12 Reportedly Set for Release This Year as a Fully Modular, Subscription-Based, AI-Focused OS
🤮
That is based on an AI slop article full of unconfirmed rumors and clickbait.
Stop spreading it like it is true.
Who are you to order me to stop doing what I wasn't doing? Windows 11 is such a giant piece of shit, that this kind of article rings too true. If anything, take it as a cautionary tale and change course so that Windows 12 (or whatever it's called) isn't worse.
Okay people: Win 10 is infinitely better than Win 11, so like if you're one of the few eccentric people that for some reason is required to use Win🅱️ows
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler Okay so previously I tried PopOS and it kinda works but when I tried playing games (tetr.io to be exact) my framerate is half of my monitor's refresh rate and I had no idea how to fix it and at the time I'm using absolutely proprietary software required for my university and dual booting is a nightmare to deal with for some reason with Windows; and then at one point I also tried Bazzite, and no matter what I did, tetr.io would always operate on my iGPU and not on my discrete GPU (thanks NoVIDIA!!1!), so after that I dunno I'll just probably stick to Win 10 until I got a proper PC, and that's a whole story to have and I don't want another yapping session about that :::
then... there you go.
For the problems you encountered: the refresh rate can be set in the monitor settings. If you can't go any higher, then there might be a problem with your graphics drivers. It is also important to add that Pop!OS is based on Ubuntu, which can take ages to implement modern changes. For Gaming I would generally recommend a rolling release distro, maybe it be OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, Fedora, etc... Otherwise you might not get the cutting edge tech that you need.
As for Tetr.io: it seems to be a problem with Vulcan, namely that improperly configured drivers will use the iGPU by default. How do you install/run that game?
Would take a closer look sometime, thanks for notes :d
That shit is funny
I recommend BeOS
I recommend to most people that you just BeYourself, so long as that means you won't Be an OSshole.
Ah, a Plan 9 man.
Yes! Maintain the rage!
Windows 10 and Linux are pretty good
i like when doctor offices ask this question. It seems so stupid to me.
Lol, I love Linux, but yeah... boy do I hate the Linux fans.
When Ieet other Linux folks in person, they're great. Online though ...
I'll talk Linux installs at a party but not windows. fellers gotta have standards.
"How likely are you to recommend putting your hand up to the elbow in this wood chipper?"
Like, if you're in the business of building PCs? I definitely understand swapping build tips with friends and colleagues. Even strictly within the "No Linux Allowed" space, there's no shortage of online tutorials and consultants recommending this or that version of Microsoft.
But Win10 is going away and Win11 is so fucking bad...
actually ... never mind
That comment was basically Microsoft's business plan ever since like windows 8 until they made it no longer true by making windows so bad "what OS should I use" did become a topic, at least with the nerdier segment of the population.
Though on the other hand, that 90%+ segment of the population still doesn't gaf other than "why are computers so hard?" style complaints.
They do, don't they? People would complain about certain things of Windows or MacOS not working. And if it fits the situation, recommendation might me voiced.
I highly recommend that you recommend some recommended operating systems.
Tell that to apple fans
I thought with them it was more about the entire device than just the OS. People might say they love their mac but nobody is telling friends & family to just install macOS on that old PC that's losing Microsoft support.
Ah, true. I forgot this for a moment
To be fair, the only time operating systems come up in conversation is when someone’s computer is broken and suddenly everyone becomes an IT expert. 😅
To be fair I wouldn‘t feel comfortable recommending a specific distro to someone. At least not long term. I do recommend giving Linux a try though and Mint is a good starter to see if you can imagine using Linux full time. But I really can‘t recommend using Arch to everyone. Other people have entirely different needs than I do.
This is the way
When I am talking about Linux, I am not discussing my choice of OS with others.
I am discussing my hobby with others.