Android will become a locked-down platform in 194 days
https://keepandroidopen.org/Open linkView original on lemmy.world1230
Comments343https://keepandroidopen.org/Open linkView original on lemmy.worldhttps://keepandroidopen.org/Open linkView original on lemmy.world
Time to popularize Linux phones. I read that the security model is lacking, but especially given that Android is Linux too, it shouldn’t be too difficult to catch up. The EU is also interested in tech independence, so that could be one of the sources of funding. And there are a few viable early projects, like Ubuntu Touch and Sailfish.
There need to be enforced of competition law here. Companies aren't going to voluntarily support a platform with few users. Users aren't going to move to a platform without critical apps.
We live in a dystopia were you have to have the banks app to do online banking even on your desktop. You can't charge your car without an app. You can't navigate your car without a map app that has traffic information. Etc etc. I want FOSS alternatives to all these, but there isn't and Google could take even having a FOSS platform at all.
This something we need regulators to fix. It is a politically problem, not a technical one.
America screwing up trust should wake up Europe to dealing with American tech monopolies. Now it's not something just nerds and economists complain about, it is a geopolitical problem.
Corporations are getting WAY too much fucking power over our personal lives, it's at critical mass where their power is superseding that of our basic democratic rights.
We all knew it would happen, and here we are. We need to fight the fuck back with everything we've got, and coordination and planning is the first step.
There has to be something already happening, where do we sign up, who do we get in contact with? Where's the team?
Does anyone know or have any leads on that? I have the possibility to devote my life full time to it and I'm feeling like me and many others are not being utilized the way we could and are capable of.
The fight was always going against these monopolies.
In the UK with have OpenRightGroup to some extent the Greens. In the US EFF, FSF, SFC. In the EU ESFe, Pirate Party, Greens.
There are many groups fighting the political cause. They have had victories over the years, but winning the odd battle doesn't win a war. They all need support.
Until now, a lot of open source has tried to be nonpolitical, but that may be changing:
https://fosdem.org/2026/schedule/event/SFKNTZ-welcome_to_fosdem_2026/
Fully agree, there should be regulations, temporary at least, that require/incentivize critical companies to make a mobile Linux version of their apps, as well as strategic funding and incentives to make the platforms viable. We as citizens should contribute too, increasing pressure for this to happen, spreading the message, becoming early adopters where possible, submitting feedback, contributing to development, etc.
We need to support political groups fighting for us, not just think in terms of technology. In the UK it is OpenRightsGroup, maybe the Greens party, in Europe there is the Pirate Party, Greens, Free Software Foundation Europe, and more. We should be trying to get politicians into this.
I have never heard of that. Can you give an example?
HSBC business. There is no fob. You have to get a code from their app to login online. That app refused to run on LineageOS with MicroG, regardless of the boxing and lying to it I tried. It does work under GrapheneOS with boxed Google services.
That sounds obnoxious they don't support the usual MFA platforms
And at the same time there's Fidelity (and others) using voice authentication as the sole verification of account ownership when calling in (I think they finally fixed this a couple years ago)
It's pretty rubbish. I was under pressure from a few angles to compromise more with Google. GrapheneOS is were I am. But I want to be on a prober Linux. But it's just not possible without competition law being enforced. It's political problem not technical.
Sailfish is not very alive. Ubuntu Touch too.
But honestly yes. I think the problems are mostly in hardware support.
The political problems driving the push for independence are fairly recent, so the current state is unlikely to be extrapolable.
There are devices using these operating systems that are also gaining popularity, like Jolla, Volla and Fair phone.
Android is not Linux (the OS), it just uses the Linux kernel. That means almost nothing is transferable from one OS to the other unfortunately.
You can run Android apps on Sailfish via AppSupport
That's all Linux is though, arguably
not even arguable, you're right
How about phone as terminal for home pc.
yeah I will start deeply researching this because I refuse to use a closed down operating system for my phone my whole life. Fuck android fuck google and fuck apple
IDK, I'd think the best path forward would be to just fork Android and move on from there. That's what Graphene OS already does. Just standardize on Graphene OS for everything and get them more devs / resources.
GrapheneOS has strict standards for what phones they support, which is why you can currently only install it on Pixels.
The only response I've seen so far from F-Droid is that they've put up a banner to Keep Android Open. Has there been any kind of plan for next steps?
They responded to it when it first came up 4 months ago. I'll paste my appropriate comment from that time.
Sorry to piss off all the Apple shills on here, but sounds like an opportunity to me. I think there's enough of us that want something better and some traction with Graphene and some Linux options. This should be a spark to ignite some fires. I'm disappointed but unsurpised by this news, but also a little excited about the window of motivation and opportunity this opens.
Honestly, I'm worried. Current Linux options are expensive and or shitty. IDK if Sailfish is still a thing. I can't use Apple. If I keep taking good care of my not-so-shitty Xiaomi phone, maybe I have a couple more years until I'm pwned.
PostmarketOS seems promising, though.
If you care about using third-party Android apps, I have good news for you, but grim news for the ecosystem. You will still be able to use third-party apps. But it's going to be harder. You'll probably need to use something like Shizuku or an ADB tool. The first wave of those affected won't be you and me; it'll be people who aren't quite as technically competent. Then, slowly, a chilling effect will echo across independent development.
PostmarketOS is already in a good state for a secondary device, though I don't think it can completely replace an Android phone just yet. Most devices still have some fundamental hardware support issues even on the more well supported phones (camera is the big one, call audio is also problematic on a lot of devices). However, as a pocketable Linux machine, it is wonderful. I got a second cheap SIM card so I can have data on my OnePlus 6 postmarketOS phone as there are a lot of tasks that work better on Linux than Android. I keep an Android daily driver but am trying to do less and less on it and more on the postmarketOS device.
I look forward to LibrePhone coming online. I hope it comes soon ...
"Librephone — Free Software Foundation — Working together for free software" https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/librephone
SailfishOS is still very much a thing and they have a brand new phone on the way. Since it hasn't been released yet it's hard to get into specifics, but early interest seems to point in a positive direction at least.
Could you go over what Graphene is for phones? Is it easy to switch to an alternative to android?
Its a version of android OS that can be installed on Google Pixel phones. Its a relatively easy switch if you're technically inclined, but the device needs to be carrier unlocked.
If it's just a fork of Android, doesn't that mean 194 days from now they either need to branch off entirely and write their own code from here on out....
Or....
Never advance the base code?
Neither is true, that's not how forking works. But there is some truth to it in that it can start to become significantly more difficult to keep in sync as time goes on, depending on how obnoxious the security becomes and how many places they have to remove it.
Consider the trivially naive case where Google implements this feature in a single function: "function app_is_signed() -> bool" then the fork just adds "return true;" to the beginning of that function, and happily merges every other update Google makes from then on with zero issues. Even if the code for "app_is_signed" itself changes, nobody cares, because the first thing it does is return true and everything else Google ever tells it to check or do is ignored, the function can still be used everywhere throughout the code, it just no longer actually checks anything in Graphene, whereas it does check things in Google's Android.
Of course the reality is much more complicated than that, but the principle is the same. It's only a question of how obnoxious and difficult Google chooses to be about it. They could move the function around every update, or use many different functions, make a whole system out of it, make it do crazy cryptographic validations and checksums in various different places of the code, have watchdog tasks that are checking that the validation code is getting used. They could be really, really obnoxious about it, if they want to be, and they have more resources than the Graphene OS developers probably do to undo and keep undoing all these obstacles, so if they really want to devote that much time and energy to making Graphene's position untenable, they can. But they could also be doing that now, and they're not. Crackers have been fighting these sort of battles against copy-protected software for ages, it's the same principles, and much of the same economic choices go into it. How much does Google want Graphene OS to go away? How much is it worth to them? It has to have a dollar value to them, and that dollar value might be significantly higher than they're willing to bother with.
Worst case scenario where Google makes it extremely difficult going forward, what is the hard part about just never rebasing onto future work from Google?
From what I've seen there hasn't been significant core work on Android for a long time. It's been mostly changing from rounded corners to square corners to rounded corners, or shoving AI into every nook and cranny.
I'd think a small dev team like Graphene could maintain their AOSP fork moving forward.
I absolutely agree they can maintain an AOSP fork going forward, and I think that's completely realistic and I would be surprised if that is not the case.
But I was answering OP from a strictly technical perspective about the potential difficulties they could, theoretically face while doing that. Since you asked what is the hard part, I'll answer along those lines (again, with the caveat that I don't think these are going to pose realistic obstacles for the GrapheneOS team in the near term) My point is not to say it's impossible but I think it's important for people to be aware that this approach comes with risks, and those risks will grow over time especially when you're up against a non-cooperative upstream that is one of the largest and richest tech companies in the world.
For one thing you're never going to support any new phones without either pulling driver support from AOSP or reverse-engineering the hardware and drivers yourselves, or accepting that some parts will just... not work. So you get stuck on older and less capable hardware. Maybe you don't care about that too much, and that works fine for awhile, but eventually the cracks start to show. Now you have to either start figuring out how to get into the newer hardware, or you have to start getting custom newer hardware of your own, which is $$$.
Using closed hardware this way as leverage is a pretty common way of getting in the way of open source development, and Android hardware is very closed. Similar tactics are already even being used against x86 PCs now with things like TPM and Secure Boot. It doesn't completely brick your system on day one of course, but the erosion of support begins when they start writing software that intentionally relies on these features to say "oh, sorry, this software you want to use? it won't actually work on the open source OS/open source client because they don't have access to this hardware... what a shame." One or two pieces of software, no big deal. But they won't stop there, eventually it'll be like half the software, then over time it'll become 90% of the software, you won't be able to find alternatives. They can often afford to be more patient and relentless about this shit than we are. The battle will continue, and there's no sure path to victory. Forking is one tool we have, and that's great, but we also have to remember that it's not a flawless, unstoppable long-term solution that we can play as a trump card whenever corporate interests do something bad. They don't just give up. They have other means of getting their way.
No. As long as the base remains opensource (AOSP), they can remove the bad parts. Graphene has made numerous contributions to AOSP, I'm confident they can manage that. And if the user base growths, I hope their fundings will follow.
It would be a good thing for the world if AOSP was forked with big resources behind an open project with an open governance. But that needs lot of resources.
I'll switch in a heartbeat if they support a nonGoogle phone
They're working on it. Unfortunately most phones have poor security hardware, which is why its limited to Pixels at the moment.
Good news!
Isn't carrier locked phones exclusive to America? As far as I know, no other country lock their phones to a specific carrier.
It's Android with all of the Google removed where possible and sandboxed where not. You can choose to install the Google Play services and use it like any other Android phone or use it without any Google software.
Some things won't work, namely things like some banking applications and NFC payments, because they require on hardware attestation that Google will not allow Graphene to pass. Essentially everything that isn't banking/payment related works exactly like any other Android phone.
It is just a secure phone (though you can still install Facebook on it if you want) that is designed around mitigating attacks that could violate your privacy and security.
Very easy to install, you just buy a Pixel directly from Google (don't buy from the carriers, they'll be locked). Enable OEM Unlocking in the Developer menu and then plug it into USB and you can install it directly from the Graphene site via WebUSB. It takes about 5-10 minutes, then your phone will reboot (It'll give you a scary looking screen about not running a Google OS that you'll see every time it reboots but it's just informational, it doesn't affect anything and the system will boot into GrapheneOS in a second or two).
The more complete instructions and WebUSB install process:
https://grapheneos.org/install/
What really bugs me about it: The first step from "how to ungoogle your phone" is "go, give money to Google" by buying their hardware.
It bugs me also.
My thinking is that the part of Google that I think is bad is their advertising and algorithmic recommendation systems which are built on private data that I no longer wish to divulge.
The Pixel is made by a company that used to be called HTC before they were consumed by Alphabet. That company produced good hardware that was smartly designed and innovative. That legacy continues with the device that Google has sells as the Pixel.
There are a few things about the phone that Alphabet has tainted, such as the inability to use NFC payments because hardware running GrapheneOS isn't allowed into their secure hardware attestation chain. Not for any real technical reason, only because it allows Alphabet to disincentivize people away from a competitor by abusing their many monopoly powers.
GrapheneOS takes advantage of the excellently designed HTC hardware to create an operating system that is designed from the ground up to be secure. It then leverages the complete control over your hardware to put Alphabet's other software inside of a little box where it constantly lies to the software in a way that lets your applications work without them actually being able to access everything on your device.
Yes, it is technically an Alphabet product and giving them money can feel distasteful. However, in this case by buying their hardware you can cut off their software, which is the actual thing that is negatively affecting everything.
I'd buy any other phone that fully supported GrapheneOS's requirements for future devices.
Until then, I'm less worried about giving HTC money than I am about having a device that I know is under my control and that works to protect my privacy.
Buy refurbished. GOS support will be coming to a (yet unnamed) OEM.
Why do banks need a hardware attestation, out of curiosity? I'd assume that banking apps are just clients so all that matters is if they have creds or not.
The banks don't want their payment systems being accessed by devices that are compromised by malicious actors.
The attestation chain allows for Google to tell the apps 'Yep, this system is running a known safe image that has been crytographically verified using the secure hardware on the device'. The apps will only allow their payment systems to be accessed (like, to send an NFC payment) if this check can verify that.
If you want technical details: https://developers.home.google.com/matter/primer/attestation
They don't NEED it for NFC payments to work, this is a way of limiting attack vectors on their payment infrastructure (or, cynically, a way for Google to ensure that no competing OS can exist because people would rather give Google all of their privacy so they can pull a phone out of their pocket rather than a credit card.
What kind of traction? Is it missing something? Or do you just mean more developers behind it?
It's missing a robust user base imo. More developers too.
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The new requirements will "only" apply for "certified" Android devices. I'm pretty sure, devices running a custom ROM aren't certified, especially if you don't even have Google Services installed. Nevertheless, I'm looking forward to a bright future for Linux phones.
Fwiw, just because a dumb phone doesn't give you access to "smart" features doesn't mean the capabilities aren't present on the phone. It's just a matter of what could be hidden on the circuit board (lots can be hidden in chips), and what can be hidden in usual expected traffic (if bandwidth requirements are low, even timing of packets could be used to encode hidden data that would never show up in any logs).
Plus the simple tracking of cellphones is necessary for them to function at all.
I wonder if there is a dumb phone with tethering currently. Cause if you don't mind carrying 2 devices, that may be viable for your use case
If you just need a mobile data connection there's alot of sim based wifi routers
Good point!
https://www.punkt.ch/products/mp02-4g-minimalist-phone
The new Jolla phone can't come soon enough. I truly believe the future of tech independence lies with linux, for us, europeans. Anyone welcome ofc.
I do hope it'll be a good enough device, even if there will be no NFC phone payments possible.
You can still use a dump phone. You can play and browse Wikipedia on a Steam Deck which has WiFi. If you are outsid, you can use a Mifi device of a USB LTE/5G dongle for the SteamDeck.
Steam decks are expensive and relatively bulky when compared to a phone. I don't think it's really a practical solution for most of us.
/e/os
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Not sure how I should feel about this, if I should support the cause to keep android "open" (when it's everything but), or if I should be happy that this piece of shit OS finally shows it's true colours and people (including me) will finally be forced to find an alternative or stop using this trashware all together.
And hopefully developers finally get serious about GNU/Linux phones.
Until Linux Phones get good, we are seeing a very rough sail ahead. Or just hard fork Android ig if it’s a logical option.
I understand, but there's a good argument that android is the reason why GNU/Linux phones don't get good.
The death of android as an "open" platform would put some pressure to actual develop an alternative.
It won’t die. My country alone will have almost a billion Android users and those cheap Androids are all they can afford and know.
I meant that it would die as an "open" platform, so power users would be compelled to stop using android.
I hope that but power users don’t dictate the technological development 🥲. Everything is made for people who want it “user-friendly”.
We need alternatives to big tech. They're reigning in and locking everything they can down, and the states are loving them for it as it solidifies their ability to control us.
They're kind of already is. It's the free and open source community.
The problem is phones are actually incredibly impressive pieces of hardware and the fact that we can Mass produce them has diluted that opinion. I'm actually to look into building my own phone and I wanted to have at least some near-flagship specs. I know how to design my own circuit boards and get someone to print them. But acquiring CPUs that perform at least 1/4 as well as Pixels or iPhones is objectively not possible, these companies have deals with manufacturers for exclusive products. And even if you could these chips are so precise you will never be able to figure out the signaling yourself.
Maybe things have gotten better now that we have ai and you don't need to be any sort of expert in anything you just need to be good enough at decision making problem solving and communicating to acquire the skills and knowledge to work on these chips. And by the time you've done all the work and acquired all the hardware you might have spent close to 3 to 5K on a device you could have just bought for $800. All for what, to circumvent privacy breaches that should be illegal in the first place?
And that's the root problem we're trying to solve. Another symptom of these companies being able to engage in the bad behavior that they do is that they gain the ability to overvalue themselves. There should be no safety or privacy concern when engaging in the purchase of any device for the same reason that people should not fear food poisoning every time they go to the grocery store.
That's what the regulators are for. This is a legal issue not a technical one.
But the only underlying cause for why we're not regulating tech companies is because fear of privacy violations is not reducing market activity. Apparently people are still going to use their phones even if their phones are listening to them having private conversations. Apparently people will still buy shit off of their phones even if their phones are going to use that data to show them ads.
Apparently the harm of your privacy being breached does not hurt enough to prevent you from doing good things.
Now if Android takes away my F-Droid, Tasker and Termux I'm gonna throw a fit. That's not privacy that's self-determination, I bought an Android because I can customize it to be as low friction for me as I need, if my phone starts giving me friction then we're going to have problems.
What we need is a good linux phone that is affordable, has hardware that isn't slow, and isn't over sold to an annual pre-order.
Sadly, if the first two are true, the third one becomes an issue.
What we need is a large company to see that is a sign of huge pent-up demand. Apparently, HP and Dell are both talking about switching to Linux as their default OS for desktops. Once all the desktop manufacturers find themselves in the business of selling hardware with Linux on it, either mobile manufacturers will copy, like Samsung, or the desktop folks decide to make their product smaller.
What everyone has wanted from the beginning was a desktop in their pocket. The amount of time that no one has produced that despite major demand, and the amount of development that has gone into building any other stack, just feels like willful suppression at this point.
Is there some government somewhere telling large-scale manufacturers that they can't build something as free and open as a desktop that isn't at least the size of a laptop? Because it actually takes less technology to make something that's open than something that is closed. And there is just as much appeal for the consumer to not restrict them.
That's not enough, sadly. That phone must support, at the very least, all the national ID and banking software. And that bit might be tricky.
This always gets brought up, and is the chicken-and-egg problem, but only sort of.
Supporting software designed for different platforms is not the phone's responsibility. It should be the government and bank developers' responsibility to build software for platforms their citizens and customers use.
Android and Apple do not jump through hoops to run Windows desktop software, for example, and the notion is kind of absurd to begin with. Yet this argument is used for Linux smartphones all the time.
Some of this also applies to people without phone / with dumbphone.
It's a kind of "yes, but actually no" situation.
Way back when, smartphones were a relatively new thing. Nobody gave a crap, so building a new OS that had similar capabilities to the competition was easy. We had a bunch of those over the years.
However, every new OS means new architecture, every architecture means developers having to take it into account when building apps.
Eventually, the smartphone market essentially defaulted to Android and iOS - long gone are Windows Phone, Blackberry OS, and a dozen others.
They didn't die off because they somehow had to - they died off because they couldn't keep up with feature parity with Android and iOS.
Nowadays, everything is being made for these two OSes. And by "everything" I mean things that are actually crucial to people - banking apps, ID apps, train ticket apps, parking lot apps - things that they either cannot replace with "not in a smartphone" solution, or can, but it would force them to juggle cards and papers.
Any new OS coming in must take that into account. If Linux comes to mobile phones but can't run national ID apps or banking apps, it will have a market share of maybe 1% - the hardcore fans, and the "technological preppers" who are always anonymous, always off-grid - and that's that. No users further users will switch, and because no users switch, no developers will take it seriously enough to make their apps work on it.
Windows Phone is a great example of this. At its height it had around 20% of the European market share. And what happened? Snapchat (massive at the time) and Google actively worked to undermine and destroy it, because they knew that - in the long run - it'll be cheaper than having to hire a third group of developers. With 3rd party alternative apps being constantly blocked, the OS eventually went down to sub 5% in its biggest market, and sub 1% in the US, and Microsoft finally pulled the plug.
An OS coming in without critical app support won't ever get to even 1% of market share in any region larger than "local Linux fanclub".
Android apps do solve a lot of UI problems a that are unique to the phone interface. If only Linux could run APKs. Oh wait, it can. Linux can run anything.
Europe is slowly working on that. Ironically, Trump's policies were kind of a blessing to Europe, because it forced politicians to finally start working towards strengthening the independence of the region.
Those who have the expertise should start contributing and working more on Linux for mobile. Postmarket has made great progress it just needs more manpower
What kind of roles do they have for people who don't know how to code? I've considered helping translate things before, but my languages are among the most popular, so it's almost always already translated.
You should checkout their contibuting guide. There are many ways to contribute as non programmer.
https://postmarketos.org/contribute/
![email protected]
They aren't competitive with Android or iOS phones presently --- don't have the scale of userbase --- but there's only one way that that's going to change, and that's people starting to use them.
("Linux" here as in "GNU/Linux", as opposed to "the Linux kernel", which Android phones also use.)
EDIT: Another option is to try to shift software use off of mobile devices as far as is practical, if you're willing to carry a second, larger device like a laptop. Just use the smartphone as a phone and as a modem for Internet access via tethering. I've generally been aiming to do that myself. I realize that that's not practical for everyone.
That approach does have some perks --- you can get your audio jack, because the space constraints of a phone go away. You aren't dependent upon your hardware manufacturer for N years of updates before your hardware is forced to become out-of-date software-wise. The devices are generally a lot more capable and upgradeable. The hardware is more modular, and there are considerably more options. You can run whatever software you want.
But...it's bigger, the software library isn't generally optimized for small touchscreen use, so one-handed use while waiting in line isn't generally ideal, and it consumes more power. You can run some Android software via stuff like Waydroid, but I'm sure that software that requires a trusted hardware stack won't accept that.
I feel compelled to point out that PostmarketOS, one of the popular Linux phone options is not, in fact GNU. It's based on musl and BusyBox, not glibc and GNU utils.
That’s generally true. Personally, I enjoy using a laptop way more than using a mobile device of any kind.
However, modern life is beginning to require mobile apps (Android or iOS). More and more things simply aren’t available as a website or FOSS. You have to have a vanilla mainstream mobile device to do certain things like using your bank account. I really hate that.
Hardware peripherals are another area that really sucks. If you want to enjoy the comforts of modern life, many people just bow down and use one of the two mobile platforms in order to use their smart ring/scale/lights/curtains/heating/car, etc.
Resisting all that is getting increasingly difficult, because there’s so much to resist. On the other hand, resisting is also becoming increasingly appealing as enshittification intensifies.
carrying a laptop won't help. If it helped, I won't mind running a termux os via proot also. I dont mind if it isn't optimised for small touchscreen yet.
right now most mobile payment options in my country only work with android/ios. My bank requires a phone for its device token (2fa).
The food and cab ordering platform is also exclusively on mobile only.
very sad
In most cases (at least in the US...I suppose that there might be places that require use of a state bank or something) one can pick their bank. None of the banks I bank with require this, and I have never installed a banking app (though I think that they all have an app as an option). One may need a phone of some sort to respond to a voice call or an SMS to validate oneself, but not an app. I believe that Bank of America has the most customers in the US, and they'll even do YubiKeys via a browser.
I think that GrubHub and Uber Eats are the most-common food delivery options where I am. It looks like both permit ordering from the Web (though I've never used their services).
Waymo, which in the US is, I think, the most-advanced robotaxi service (and probably currently the only really practical one where I am), does require an app, so I don't know if there's a good Web-based robotaxi option. Lyft looks to me like it requires use of an app. Uber looks like it permits Web-based ordering. I've never used anything but traditional cab companies (not that I especially object to the newer services, just never bothered to use them), and I've never run into one of those that requires an app --- I just call up a human.
This isn't to say that the same situation is true of where you are. But just pointing out that for many people, there are options...though it may require using an alternative service. Those services will be aware of how many people are ordering in what way, so if people are using different methods of ordering, that will cause them (and others) to tend to provide that route.
I've ordered an Uber from the mobile site when I got a flat on a long bike ride. It worked fine and I haven't had the app installed since. I only use it 2-3 times a year. I would have preferred to use Lyft, but it didn't tell me I couldn't use the mobile site until after I had already jumped through their hoops reinstated my account. Fuck you Lyft!
Linux phones look more and more attractive
sadly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PinePhone_Pro
So what can I buy now?
I've been following this for a while.
You have two main branches to follow
Bare‑metal (native Linux kernel + native drivers) pros:
cons:
You can put this on an old pine phone, or a pixel 3 or a fairephone 4/5 You can buy a preconfigured puresim librem 5 Battery life is pretty rough. You can find lots of youtubes recounting their attempts at daily driving both PostmarketOS, Puresim and UBPorts on bare metal
Halium‑based (Linux userspace on top of Android hardware abstraction)
pros:
cons:
You can buy preworking models from Volla or you can put it on a Fury Phone there are a number of options for used phones if you want to install it yousel.
IMO, If you want a daily driver with working cameras and good battery life, Halium is usually the practical choice.
You also have to beware of usage in some places, looks like most of the carriers in Australia will refsue to active VoiceOverLTE even though the phones support it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_mobile_phones#Devices_with_formal_support
My tears, maybe I can afford to eat today.
Graphene OS
As far as I know, it is still reliant on the whims of Google through shenanigans with AOSP, and of course having to use a Pixel.
Linux offers a more solid and independent foundation, and while it is less polished yet, to me it's the only real way out in the long run.
Still, GrapheneOS is a big step in the right direction - hope it wouldn't come across as me being against the project.
Yup, if enough people switch to graphene big G will fuck them over. Exiting entirely is the only long term solution.
They've signed with an OEM (still secret atm, but the best guess seems to be Motorola?) who will produce the first flagship GrapheneOS device sometime this or next year iirc. Supposed to be revealing the manufacturer next month. That'll at least take some of the Google dependency by having to use Pixels.
Oh hello.
Yep, heard a bit about it. Didn't include here because it's still a big WIP.
No, linux
TD;DR
(FOR EVERYONE)
Here is the petition that we all need to sign:
https://www.change.org/p/stop-google-from-limiting-apk-file-usage
(FOR DEVELOPERS or "DEVELOPERS" 😉 )
Here is the form that we need to fill:
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What does this mean for GrapheneOS and similar degoogled android versions?
Nothing changes for now but other moves by Google clearly show they are trying to kill 3rd party ROMs by locking down Android's code. In my opinion, unless EU steps in and mandates phone manufacturers and Google to support google free apps we're fucked.
EU wants phones to be locked down so they can then make Google implement mass surveillance for "national security" reasons
What are you basing this on? If you say "Chat Control" I will just ignore you.
Chat control is an issue tbough why ignore it?
Chat Control is not implementing mass surveillance and has nothing to do with national security. I that's their only argument they are confused and there's nothing to talk about. If they have other arguments I would like to hear them.
It likely is not their only grievance as other things exist like porn blocking, ID implementations and VPN discussions.
Also chat control is reviewing private conversations. It is a provacy breach. There is no circumstance where this is not abusable. Here are some truths to how the law is presented:
1: nothing can be seen, only if certain pre registered files are recognised 2: politicians, military and associated personnel are exempted.
Meaning it can see more than nothing or else it is acceptable for these people to possess these materials.
It is also able to controlled a granular level person to person.
Porn blocking? In EU? I heard about it only in UK. Which EU countries block porn?
ID implementation... yes, all EU countries have ID. Many have digital IDs. What's with it?
VPN discussion isn't really proof of anything. Even Chat Control 2.0 isn't approved yet, it's just a project. VPN blocking is not even a proposal. It just someone mentioned in some report. Hardly a reason to claim that EU is becoming a surveillance state.
You live under a rock my friend.
Look at history. Look at the anology of how a frog will not jump out of boiling water if the temperature is slowly increased.
They are slowly increasing the temperature, and chat control is a big step for them. If you cannot see that then there is no hope for you
Repeating some scary conspiracy theories you read about online doesn't make you informed. It makes you naive.
The EU has no interest in allowing privacy on devices, since it is increasingly attempting to control alternative narratives. We're in touching distance of the Fourth Reich now.
This describes the EU, in a nutshell https://theuaob.substack.com/p/the-comprador-calculus-why-europes The fascists have already won.
Remember that the EU arose in part from the institutions set up to deter the same type of nationalist fascism rising again, such as the ECSC. Sadly, we may have encouraged Russian -funded American -spread international fascism in its place, although they don't seem to control the EU yet.
Would not be sure about that. There has been steps in opposite directions in the past. Remember the regulation regarding 3. party app Stores on IOS, or even further back in the past the "Free Brwoser Choice" in MS-Windows.
It is surely called competition law?
I'm dumb But using grapheneos How would them locking down the code affect graphene?
Some apps require google play, like android auto and maps.
I'm using grapheneos with open street maps, so I don't think there would be any problem with that. There is a work around to load some apps that require google play with out a google account. I'm guessing that is what would be affected.
Graphen is based on AOSP - Android Open Source Project. As the name implies, that's the part of Android that's Open Source. Google publishes this code, Graphene OS people modify it and release. All bugfixes, security fixes and new features go there. Google first stopped accepting contributions from other devs and now they are limiting how often will they release AOSP and how often will they publish security fixes. This makes development of Graphene OS more difficult and it looks like Google's ultimate goal is to make Android closed source. Graphene OS doesn't have the resources to develop Android by themselves so this would probably kill the project.
While it does not affect them directly, it is unlikely most app developers will give significant effort to only support a small percentage of Android users running custom ROMs. So while GrapheneOS users will be able to install apps, there will likely not be that many apps to install.
Edit: What I mean is that most applications will have to choose to either agree to google terms and identify themselves, or develop only for custom ROMs, or stop developing altogether. And I don't think many will choose the 2nd option. Also, 1st option may not be available if google does not like your app.
The european movement away from american stuff however is increasing, I’m hopeful that Jolla, Fairphone and the ROM world will actually increase in importance and numbers
It's the other way around. GrapheneOS users will be able to install all the apps but stock Android users will not be able to install apps from F-Droid and other alternative sources*. F-Droid will lose access to about 99% of the market.
*Technically it will still be possible for open source devs to distribute apps to stock Android users but it will require handing Google your personal information and setting up way more complicated build configuration.
Please see the edit with clarification, since I guess I wrote it poorly and multiple commenters did not get my point.
Yeah, uh, no alarm bells in the market watchdogs? None at all?
I'm writing this on a GOS Pixel tablet with only free/libre installation sources. There are quite enough applications to install.
Please see edit of my comment. Since it seems my point did not get across, I elaborated. Of course there are plenty right now since there are no barriers yet.
GrapheneOS is not limited by Google, as long as the bootloader is unlockable and Google contnues releasing the sources. Longterm, the GOS project needs to support alternative hardware platforms.
There are Linux tablets, so if Android is dead open source developers will support these.
I think the problem is your second assumption of "will continue releasing sources" is the one to fail.
Hence, a new OEM.
The OEM makes the hardware tho. How does that help if Google stops releasing the Android source code?
It means they fork and they're going to need funding to keep up with security work at least.
How do we defend our privacy on Android now?
Privacy isn't really in their interest. They feed off our data.
That's obvious, but before, we could use GrapheneOS and F-Droid etc to defend it ourselves. I'm not expecting Google to help, just hoping the resistance has something up its sleeve too.
I'm basically am doing exactly this. But I'm only on GrapheneOS as I had to compromise on some closed apps that refused to run on LineageOS. GrapheneOS means I can compromise on Google a bit without being completely compromised by Google. The market and geopolitical problem remains.
Never could. Power of thousands of paid developers against a few. That's like finding all needles in a haystack, and power determines the size of that haystack and the amount of needles.
You can't use something that cost that much to make and expect to divert from what the producers intended.
The tech companies are doing a great job at making me uninterested in the hottest new phones. I used to follow the news about them and know the tech specs and stuff, because I'm a nerd and gadgets are fun and smart phones in particular are the intersection of SO much technology and engineering. Moore's law was alive and well during all my formative years, so I am even conditioned to expect the excitement.
But lately, not only have I been ignoring what the big players are offering, I have been ignoring the phone I already have! Instead I have a PC at the end of the couch with a monitor on an arm that s swings right over my lap.
I use my phone pretty much just for music, web browser, Voyager (Lemmy on the go), and occasional texting. When I am at home I will sometimes misplace my phone for hours and just not worry about it.
I have already pushed the megacorp phone + social media experience so far out of my daily life, that if future options for open linux phones are rough around the edges and don't have tap to pay then oh well I don't think I care.
It's much easier to live without the shiny new thing once you see how well your brain does when separated from it. (and you have some loved ones who are still hopelessly addicted to the scroll)
How do I "uncertify"y Android device? Install a fork I guess. Shame it's not as easy as installing a new OS on the desktop.
It is, if you can unlock the bootloader.
It should be illegal to not allow unlocking the bootloader, but it is very common.
Maybe the only good use of AI is someone automates reverse engineering drivers for mobile.
Problem then becomes that banking, streaming and other apps won't work because root == security issues (according to the companies who push towards a more closed system). Completely stupid. Like saying that having admin or root rights on your desktop poses such a huge security issue that you cannot login to your bank. Furthermore, if you do root your phone, then you should be comfortable tinkering with technology and understand the potential dangers that such an endeavour might present.
I'm a software freedom enjoyer so I don't have most of those types of apps already (only Discord.. which I hope friends ditch soon).
When I looked into installing a new OS it needed some program or use Android Studio which had it. However, the AS binary demanded I agree to an EULA beyond the "open source" license I was expecting. Whatever I needed it couldn't find an up to date method of compiling it myself.
(Fairphone 5)
I could live without banking etc. on my phone - has become a habit. Also, android auto is a must for me, unfortunately. Because of the complicated process of getting approval from governmental bodies when implementing technology for cars (safety stuff mostly) I doubt we'll see any foss alternatives any time soon. Could be wrong - Fisker Ocean cars have a great community that mods the software, but probably wouldn't have happened if Fisker didn't go bankrupt.
So then, in 194 days, Android will be an inferior version of iOS and you may as well just switch to Apple because their devices have a better security posture.
It's mostly marketing honestly. They're both total ass.
No, unless you use GrapheneOS, iOS is far more secure than Android.
FUCK no! Apple is dogshit locked down like crazy, so, fuck no, politely.
At least I can get almost 10 years of updates on iOS.
Where they slow down your phone to try and force an upgrade? Let's be real, how many people keep phones passed their 1-2 year upgrade cycle? I'm coming up on 4 years a my android, and outside of me dropping it in a pool it's worked well! I'm finally ready to upgrade tho since it's still funky ever since then.
I usually upgrade every 6 to 7 years.
iPhones are premium, whether you like Apple or not. I like an SD slot and the ability to have access to different apps. Most people don't care. Apple built a phone that works and looks/performs well years after its released (when they're not intentionally throttling phones with updates.)
Presumably Android will still allow mounting the complete phone file system and the phones to have SD cards and headphone jacks. If we lose the ability to run whatever we want that majorly sucks, but still not as locked down as iphones.
No, because you can literally use an alt app store
"Install F-Droid ↗ on your Android device(s). The more people that use alternative app marketplaces, the harder it will be to shut them out"
Also, to data transfer anything, you're locked to iTunes on a specific device, on Android I could sideload apps from my SD card if I wanted, move pictures or video, etc.
The link you posted literally has this banner at the top
Reading is hard for some people lawl
Yes... It does... I copied straight from the article, and a way to combat the whole Dev reg thing was to... Install alt store!!! Whoa!
Also. Apple has alt app stores in other regions. Data transfer on Apple hasn't needed iTunes for a long time, and it will read USB-c hard drives and keys. I don't disagree with you that iOS is more locked down, just pointing out the gap keeps getting smaller. I have a Jolla pre order in, because I'm a fan of open hardware, but it will likely be my android phone that I drop in favour of it.
Fuck you Google. I won't do further updates on my Pixel and the moment I run into an issue I'll move operating systems or phones if required. Half my apps don't come from Google Play and I don't want the developers to have to register with Google for anything.
is there a way to ACTUALLY disable them? I've attempted to change every option I can find (pixel 7 pro) and it just downloads them anyway. I'd love to try graphene but I am a fucking moron and I will 100% end up bricking my phone if I attempt to install it.
Grapheneos has a wonderful how to install procedure. I did it with a Linux Debian machine. It took several tries to get the bootloader right, part of that was I didn't know what I was looking for. Once your phone has the red triangle in the bootloader of the phone, the installer should recognize it, and the installer was awesome from there.
still hard to commit to it when it's the only phone I have to use. maybe I can grab a cheap older pixel to test drive it on or something, I think pixel is up to 10? now but 7pro should hopefully last me 3-4 more years if I treat it right, as long as I don't fuck it up
I've found some cheaper pixels on e-bay, bought mine there.
Not that I know of. I was just going to not install them.
Actually I hear Graphene installation on a Pixel is nearly unbrickable and has a nice user friendly website.
I watched a video of it and was reminded of the old Limera1n/Blackrain/etc IOS jailbreak days. There was one where you just went to a website and swiped to jailbreak then your idevice rebooted and you were jailbroken.
no you won't .. its so easy to install.
put grapheneOS on it ..
That will be the go to. I'm just procrastinating the migration.
How soon before Windows copies this, given they already tried this sorta lockdown with S Mode?
Also, couldn't Ubuntu hypothetically lock down the Snap store like this?
I'm sceptical with Windows, considering that most programs are installed via EXE files, so the outcry will be huge. But I'm not saying it can't be a possibility.
With Ubuntu there would only be a chance of it happening if they also make their distro immutable. That way the user could not as easily install packages the traditional way. But even then there might be ways to disable this immutable mode for troubleshooting. However, this, in my opinion, would cause a mass exodus as Canonical does not have the same advantage as Microsoft or Google have: Windows and android are, to an extent, closed off ecosystems. Thus switching to another system is very hard, as not every software is available on every other system, so potentially subpar alternatives and comparability layers, whose functionality mostly depends on whether the company behind the original system is actively fighting against these tools or not. Ubuntu on the other hand, is a Linux distro, so you cab make it like Theseus and recreate this distro more or less with the sum of its parts, if need be.
Code signing for EXE is already a thing. And @[email protected] is right, the same thing is happening there. Restrictions are getting more inconvenient, with Microsoft now talking about a maximum code signing certificates validity of 72 hours, with identity verification getting more strict too. Valid code signing certificates are not mandatory yet but I guess it's a matter of time before we need to type powershell commands to disable restrictions.
Plus Windows already tried blocking sideloading with S Mode. What's stopping them from permanently enacting that for the Home SKU at some point down the road given their recent track record of implementing unpopular things regardless of public outcry?
Also, what's stopping Google from just completely rewriting Android as a Windows-style closed-source OS that they have complete control over at some point?
Regarding Google, looks like it's in the pipe yes, Fushia is non-GPL (permissive licenses, so no redistribution clause in case of a sudden licensing switch).
I thought Fuchsia was proprietary.
In theory Canonical could lock down Ubuntu like that, but it would be the end of Ubuntu. Switching over to Mint or Debian is not a big deal for majority of the linux-users and also Ubuntu would lose all the advantages they can currently pull off from Debian package maintainers. Also I suppose it would bring a ton of headaches with licenses, but IANAL, so don't quote me on that. And, obviously, that would kill snapcraft too as I don't see any incentives for developers to support walled gardens for free, so it wouldn't be all bad.
So basically they wanna be Apple.
I have F-Droid on my Android phone. Iike having a marketplace where I can download floss apps.
I imagine lots of developers will jump to fdroid.
Not sure what closed source apps who don't want to pay Google will do though...
You bank will be the last. Without your bank's app, you may not be able to do online banking. Car park apps. Public car charger apps. Even theme parks now have a ride booking app. There is more and more "app for that" with no alternative.
We require law makers to get involved. America making it's tech monopolies a visible geopolitical problem should help us.
Gonna have to wing Ubuntu touch and figure it out as i go. Fuck this shit. Access the boot loader while you can
Is GraphenOS tenable to use as a daily driver?
Yes.
Is grapheneos available on anything but Google pixel phones?
I heard that they're working on that, but currently only Pixel.
Sadly, no. Your best bet is Lineage without gapps. Aurora and F-Droid covers pretty much everything I use, so that's likely my move in the near future.
No, just buy one used on ebay.
I have found it good
Are you pretty much able to do everything you need? I don't even love using my phone but when I use it its kind of critical. Things like maps while driving. Does that work alright?
I am. You can install Google Play services in a sandbox. One of my banking apps works the other does not, but I prefer to do that over web on a desktop anyway. Otherwise I get pretty much everything off of f-droid.
Absolutely.
so much yes. I just got mine a few days ago and I love it so much.
Absolutely. You won't be able to use tap to pay, and the Google Wallet app doesn't open for me. Certain banking and finance apps might require some additional compatibility settings to be enabled. Otherwise it's been an extremely smooth experience for me.
Cool. Currently I try to use Mobile Pay for everything, but the privacy is more important for me. I'm on IOS right but I'm tired of Apple and hate Google's privacy policies. So I'll def get a refurbished Pixel and try out Graphene. Thanks!
Dear terrorists, I don't like your actions, but if you still exist and want to cause destruction and deaths, please, do it by attacking main offices of big corporations. That will be a tragedy for whole world. Thank you!
On the one hand, google is obviously evil, and it's intentions here are undoubtedly evil as well. On the other, I do think some kind of verification of developers should exist. Just not in google hands. But who. There really isn't anyway to create an organization that could be trusted to do this. And of course, the user should be able to chose to install apps from an unverified developer.
Google has their own store, that's how they verify.
That’s how it works on Windows already. You buy a cert from a third party vendor so your setup file can pass Windows security checks and doesn’t show a big warning to the user when they open the setup file.
But then you are trusting that 3rd party vendor. Who approved them.... MS probably.
Remember to contribute to postmarketOS!
Fairphone, here I come.
Yeah, I'm not buying any more Pixels. I got the Fairphone 6! It's good! I'm in the US, so I got it from Clove. Works fine on T-Mobile.
Although, I'm currently running Android... Probably have to install e/OS or something.
I hope Fairphone can continue to grow to eventually meet Graphene's hardware requirements.
Pixels are the best phones to buy since you can install GrapheneOS...
You've got Framework laptops, who make repairable modular laptops. Seems great in theory but i haven't got one to test.
Tickle those guys to get into phones too.
Anyways there are very few companies now who actually respect right to privacy, repair, etc. Treat their employees like humans and don't shit on environment.
I'll be frank with you. As long as my customers are captive on either Apple or Google platforms I can't do shit.
Fuck, I don't have the money to replace my phone. I probably wont by September either. Too many expenses.
I probably just need to buy a fair phone at this point.
I want to get a pixel 10 so I can have grapheneOS on it. Fuck it! I am always in a race against time.
10 does not have a sim card tray, the 9's do. First post with grapheneos on a new to me 9 I was able to get!
Yes it does.
It depends what country you're in. The US doesn't and Canada does (not sure about elsewhere).
I am in Canada, so that does make sense. Interesting that the US doesn't though. I for sure wouldn't have got this if I was forced to use an esim.
I am also in Canada. I just called my mobility provider and told them I wanted a new phone and that i wanted to pay off my current phone immediately.
So which is it? Pixel 9 or 10?
Pixel 10. I got mine from Costco on black Friday. They were having some crazy deals that basically paid you to take the device home lol. It's the only reason I upgraded.
I wish I could find a deal like that, but as it stands I will need to pay a lump sum to my provider to pay off the remaining balance on my Samsung S23, which I am going to keep. I will format it securely and use it with a prepaid sim as a travel phone with next to nothing on it. GrapheneOS goes on my Pixel 10 and I want to degoogle it. It will pose a mild issue since sometimes I (sadly) do need to check my gmail, and I really don't know if putting it on my GrapheneOS is a good idea.
You could be right. I looked at several of them on eBay and could only find phones with the e-sim, couldn't find any with sim card tray.
Kmacmartin pointed out that the SIM tray is available only in certain countries. So maybe it's worth checking out Canadian listings? I wouldn't want to be forced to use esim either.
Just told them my opinion. Maybe you want too?
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfN3UQeNspQsZCO2ITkdzMxv81rJDEGGjO-UIDDY28Rz_GEVA/viewform?pli=1
The comments keep mentioning Linux phones, have they managed to get Linux running on mobile hardware that I won't have to go on an archaeological dig for?
Out of the loop here. How can google lockdown an open-source operating system? I know they are involved in developing it because it benefits them, but does that mean they own it?
VPNs will be forbidden, age will be verified.
Coincidence that all are gaining traction?
Are there any details on how it will be implemented? Will it affect older versions or just new/updated devices?
So, does it mean that degooglized android phones will suffer as well?
This is why we should use things like GPL.
IMO the big problem with this is for old APKs that were created before this new developer registration requirement- you won't be able to install them at all without rooting or using a different vanilla Android version.
It prohibits developers from creating apps and maintaining their anonymity but it also prevents scammers from anonymously stealing people's money with fake apps.
Will be a big problem if their developer registration process is difficult or used as a restriction somehow to govern who can register.
can i walk around this by simply never updating my phone? been (not?) doing that for a year already anyways
Will most likely not be a problem short-term but over time there will be apps that will require a newer OS version than the one you are stuck on and just stop running.
The main reason you should not do that is because of known security issues that are not fixed in your old install. So you are opening yourself up to being more vulnerable to malicious software.
aw whack you're right, when my banking app stops supporting my OS version i'll have to update
ya i know, but i don't really download anything on my phone or click suspicious links, i know this is not a perfect defence, but honestly, i hate UI changes more than i worry about malicious software
Just wanted you to be aware. Not blaming you. It's an overall shitty situation / outlook.
In the meantime port linux OSs to be easilly installable on Android devices
Also how do we get our hands on the geniuses behimd this fiasco ?
Well, Europe will fix this for sure.
I think it’s hilarious that the site recommends filing antitrust actions with the US Dept of Justice.
That office is currently amongst the most corrupt, compromised and against doing anything good in the US Govt.
It's a shame webos got bought and turned into a tv os. It would shine on modern hardware and was 'rooted' out of the box.
Palm pixi was my favorite phone ever and I used it up until like 2019.
https://e.foundation/e-os/
You can put this on a Nothing CMF Phone 1 btw.
Guys, can't we Just use e/OS? I thougt it wouldn't be affected?
Hoping that phones running e/OS wouldn't count as certified android devices anymore. Especially if they don't have Google Play Services on them.
"Starting in September 2026, Android will require all apps to be registered by verified developers in order to be installed on certified Android devices"
EDIT: Found this from last August:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/26/android_developer_verification_sideloading/
The restrictions will apply to certified Android devices, meaning Google-approved and including the core Google apps and services. Most Android devices fall into this category, though niche options exist, such as mobiles running /e/OS, a de-Googled version of Android, or the open source LineageOS. The downside of using non-Google Android from a consumer perspective is that some apps might not install, such as those that use the Play Integrity API to verify that the app is "installed by Google Play, running on a genuine Android device."
The average user won't notice any difference.
I'm using Rocknix on an android handheld and it feels so powerful to be running 6.18 mainline kernel with all the modern features I want despite having to build stuff from source since the package manager only has a small list of stuff mostly meant for networking (Entware).
Even though its in beta for my device (AYn Thor), it works so well after only 4 months of development that I'm genuinely reaching the point of perma install and removing the stock Android install from the device.
I would pay cold hard cash for an OEM to do the same with PostmarketOS. Throw in proper open source kernel modules and use Steam's upcoming waydroid fork for Android compatibility, and then throw that sucker in the market and watch Google try to litigate it out of existence.
I hardly think an OEM would do this, no incentives. It needs to be crowdfunded by us. It's just China is the only manufacturing hub, and we all know, china is not too keen on freedom, and letting go of control. One can hope.
Maybe it's time to bring back MeeGo
F-droid will stop working I imagine?
Everyone is talking about getting a fairphone and whatnot but I'm concerned about the open source apk communities shutting down since the market share and interest is killed by this.
Im not convinced that this will make a difference. Just "calling your representatives" response is so low energy.
They’re gonna take away my Projectivy, aren’t they? 😔
First I'm hearing of this launcher. Definately gonna download the apks.
I’m in PDX and setting a webcam as my TV launcher’s background has been the coziest, bestest thing ever. Way better than the default page o’ ads.
I have been thinking this for some time, why not just have a certified burner phone or tablet and then a free phone as your main?
Realistically most of us have to install shitty insecure apps to survive in this modern world, but that doesn't mean all our personal data and stuff has to be on the same device.
For the cost of one brand new top model phone, you could probably get a low-mid certified device and a decent Fairphone or equivcalent.
Feels a lot more interesting to just pick up a feature phone, and use it as a hotspot modem for a laptop.
which can do this? its my dream thing. I think I may have seen it but they were priced kinda redic.
its the reason why i turned off auto software updates on my phone
I'm assuming that this would apply to any "flavor" of android?
So Graphene is not immune from this?Nvm, guess it is
From what I've heard, google free android versions won't be effected.
What if I have an android installation that has google, but I watch one of those videos on youtube that says "degoogle your android phone"? Is that enough? Or will I need a full installation that has no google right from the start?
The way I understand it, you need a non-stock Android that wouldn't enforce the cert requirements
I'm doing my part ! Mail send with help from fdroid.
Has anyone tried a Murena (/e/os) phone?
I am thinking about it.
So what other os that is supported with security updates and still works with whatapp/fb/insta sideloading is there? For me the security support and access to messaging apps is most important since that is what i use mostly. Any ideas?
I thought installing apps through ADB will still be possible ? So we can assume it will be possible with shizuku ?
This move doesn't look like a co-incidence,first google acquires android ,then you now have to use your ''google account'' as user detail to signup for most services, Now they're tip toeing towards This techno Lockdown kwowing full well how many pesrsons use Adroid phones........Who owns google Satan?
I'm on the fence with getting a new phone. Should I buy something now, like a Pixel 10 or Fairphone 6 and flash Graphene/eOs on it, or wait for next gen which might have these restrictions?
I am fine with it if they let you install stuff through adb.
Really no point in having an android anymore, might as well as get the iphone
From one semi-closed garden to a fully closed gaden? Might as well try Lineage or e/OS
gonna buy a couple pigeons and some thumb drives.
I don't think you can plug a thumb drive into a pidgeon.
This my guy right here:
you gotta get em a lil backpack then it works.
Haven't tried with a custom for a while but I've heard good things about lineage
Lineage is the base for a grand majority of custom roms
Was there ever? If you’re gonna pay iPhone prices but get weaker hardware and they sell your personal data, why not just get an iPhone? Custom launcher? Better keyboard? Certainly valid reasons, but I just don’t see the value.
Way I see it, my iPhone is a pocket version of my Mac. A computer sold as an actual computer, not a vector to sweep up my personal data and sell it to the highest bidder.
Never got down with Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, or any of that shit. Yes, I know, I’m the weird one. And I’m okay with that.
The thing is, you can install software from whatever source you like on your Mac. That's not true of your iPhone - even in the EU and Japan where they've been forced to open up a little, apps can only be installed with Apple's permission.
Macs were completely open in that regard until recently. You could install apps from wherever you want. Now, Mac apps have to be notarized by Apple or installing them requires use of the command line. That's obnoxious, but the user still has the final say, unlike the iPhone.
I love my Mac. I can install all kinds of cool software, as my Mac has been upgraded to only run Linux Mint.😉
"You can't install whatever software you want" is a good argument, but I haven't found anything I want to install on my iPhone that I can't. At one point it was emulators, but Apple overturned that a few years ago. I have an emulator on my iPhone, and it's one of the best (Delta; if you say RetroArch is better, I don't disagree, but I could get that, too). But I almost never play it. That's entirely my choice. My use case scenario doesn't need me installing any apps that aren't in the App Store.
Not that I don't have a problem with the App Store. It's mostly trash. They don't highlight good apps, they highlight profitable apps, which means subscriptions. App Store is virtually 100% trash, and its recommendations are 100% trash.
So you have found something you wanted to install on your iPhone that you couldn't, but Apple has decided to allow it for now. I think it's pretty obvious how this is a problem.
Of course you're not going to find apps that exist that you can't install because Apple says so. People won't bother making them if they can only be distributed to the tiny handful of users with jailbroken devices. Of course it comes up on occasion when Apple withdraws permission, with ICEBlock being the recent socially important case.
I haven't even used a custom keyboard or launcher since Pixels became a thing.
Why would you? Gboard is already the best.
That's a weird choice. I get it, before 2016 a lot of Android forks were ad-ridden trash. But, Nova Prime was a thing long before the Pixel, and it makes it easy to export/import settings across devices.
Sadly many won't care, but for those that do it removes one of the key differentiators. Plus it's kind of hard to trust a company that has had such a wild change in values - Apple have at least been consistent.
Edit: I didn't think it needed to be spelled out, but no I'm not suggesting Apple are trustworthy.
BackMarket is the way to go. I won’t buy tech from anywhere else. No more money to big tech companies who only care about the bottom line no matter the cost.
That's what I'm thinking, been on pretty much straight Google since my Samsung Galaxy Nexus, moto g 2013 Google edition, then all pixels, but I've got / love my MacBook Pro and having an iPhone would probably complement that a bit.
It was þis which prompted me to take þe plunge and order an FLX1s. I've been completely off Android for two weeks now. Mobile Linux is coming along just in time. Maybe just barely; I wouldn't recommend Phosh to anyone but enthusiasts, but it's getting þere, if slowly.
you forgot one.
Because it’s useless, like the TSA.
The pronunciation is not thorn there.
That's the only one where the pronunciation actually is thorn. The rest are eth (ð).
Only in Old English, or Icelandic. Eth had been completely replaced by thorn in English by þe Middle English period.
I know. We've had this conversation before.
Oh. And my argument wasn't convincing?
I often do. It's a hobby, not a lifestyle.