Spyke
piefed.social

So just to be clear. The EPA cannot make regulations despite full congressional authority to do so because that is "creating law" without a direct legislative process. But ICE, an agency that doesn't even have real law enforcement powers, can just ignore the fourth amendment entirely because the president said so?

230
lemmy.today

Which by DEFINITION, would not include Un-Constitutional behavior. No violation of the Constitution could ever be construed as an "Official Act."

No SCOTUS had ever put guardrails on the president in almost 250 years, but this SCOTUS reinforced that he has immunity for "Official Acts," and nobody realizes that they just put guardrails on the presidency for the first time.

Everybody thinks it gives him immunity for EVERYTHING while he is president, but they specifically said "Official Acts," which would be those outlined in the Constitution. Anything deemed Un-Constitutional, would not be an "Official Act," and he would not have immunity, just like any other citizen.

27

Guardrails? I think you should re-read their decision again. They gave him protection because until now even official acts didn't necessarily protect the president. And now, it doesn't matter what illegal thing he does as long as it's part of an official act. ANYTHING. Because as long as it's part of an official act they can't even question it. And they didn't even provide a list of what constitutes an official act.

So they literally put the president above all laws provided he can tie it back to some vague notion of an official act.

13
JcbAzPxreply
lemmy.world

The answer to that is, legally no. However, that doesn't stop them from doing it illegally.

5

EPA could absolutely just ignore the law when making regulations. It wouldn't even need any congressional authority. It just makes the law and when someone sues them, the judge says "nah, it's okay with me" and that's it.

-2
lemmy.world

The EPA cannot make regulations... But ICE, an agency that doesn't even have real law enforcement powers, can just ignore the fourth amendment entirely because the president said so?

Today you learned the difference between creating regulations and enforcing existing regulations, congrats.

If ICE violates your 4th amendment rights shutup and enjoy your multimillion dollar lawsuit. If you aren't entitled to said lawsuit then your rights weren't violated.

-19
lemmy.zip

I don't think the user you responded to was defending ICE. They were bitterly pointing out how the court system is rigged and how there is no oversight to enforce the law on the executive branch.

5

What exactly is the point of a judicial warrant if the executive branch can determine when they're unnecessary?

142
jimreply
lemmy.org

Nothing. And they are testing the water to see how much they can do without judges. So when they start standing outside polling booths they won’t get any government pushback.

71
sns
lemmy.dbzer0.com

And just as we always suspected, all those "2nd Amendment Absolutists" are doing sweet fuck all.

71
lemmy.world

*$50k paid at $10k/year over 5 years. If they don't make it 5 years they have to pay it back.

I wonder how many of them know this.

9

I don't think Trump intends to pay them. Odds are, he would have the "oldest" ICE members deployed into live combat and not treated for injuries afterwards.

4
krashmoreply
lemmy.world

Instead of talking shit on them why don't you buy a gun and make the argument yourself? I'll even promise to try and track down your jurors and explain jury nullification to them.

13
anarchist.nexus

Yeah I don't think the kirk fountain worked out as well as they'd hoped when they tried to capitalize on it.

That said, I don't think the escalation will stop anyway, so self defense is worth it.

For anyone who will be purchasing a firearm, please, please go to a range. Practice with it. Be familiar with how it works, maintenance, and basic repairs, and store it responsibly.

64
eestileibreply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

Yup, the most likely people to get shot with a gun are the owner and the owner's family. Gotta know what the hell you're doing.

21
anarchist.nexus

100%.

I've handled a gun from a fairly young age, taught by my grandfather, a ww2 vet. Over the years I've shot skeet, some shooting competitions for fun, etc.

The most dangerous people I've ever seen at any of those places/events were the kind of people who loved buying lots and lots of guns, especially the 2A nuts who claim its all about protecting from the tyranny of the federal government. IMO, they just wanted to feel powerful - and as a result, they were negligent and dangerous. I know one of them who shot themselves in the leg pretty recently, because they ignored the most basic rule - treat every gun as if its always loaded. Guess what? That one was! And now he has a hole in his leg.

Sorry for getting into a rant there.

Guns are horrifically dangerous and should always be treated as such.

19
lemmy.dbzer0.com

Yup. I’m the type of person to hit 8/10 clay pigeons and complain about wasting ammo. And the most dangerous people I’ve seen at a range are the dudes with the lifted pickups on dirt tires (which have never been in the dirt). They treat gun ownership like cosplay.

9

They treat gun ownership like cosplay.

Damnit, you just said it perfectly in one short phrase, and I just rambled.

That's exactly the type I'm talking about.

I'm a big fan of clay rabbits, the random hops make it so much fun!

6
anarchist.nexus

I'd say the overwhelming majority were mindful and responsible, what I commented on were the ones at those places and events that were not.

Could also be a regional thing - a few of them ive been to were in states that think the civil war was about states rights, and leave off the part about the rights being about owning people.

The one I mentioned where someone recently made an air hole in their leg is from one of those states.

5
anarchist.nexus

Especially if newer, or if you're in your 40s+ and you suddenly recognize that you need readers - damn that really changed things for me. Tried some non-stock sights from a friend and WOW what a difference (and the truglo tfos are really, really nice fwiw)

3
lemmy.ml

"ICE says its officers can forcibly enter homes . . . "

I've got a gun that says they can't.

42

It will be buckshot at first. Grapeshot comes after.

1

THEY say they can...the law and the constitution says they can't. Honestly, it is going to take some bad encounters for they to realize they are wrong, and when the encounters go bad, the dictator will mobilize other options he is trying to use.

It is a Rittenhouse strategy. Premeditated self-defense on a national scale.

10

They got more that says, "Wanna bet?" I mean, I'd want to see that, for sure. That first step is easy and obvious. It's the second that is confusing.

-1
aussie.zone

Oh this is gonna be fun when it runs up against castle doctrine

42
lemmy.ca

Not really. Remember Wilhoit's Law:

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”

When they do it, its castle doctrine and qualified immunity and civil rights. When anyone else does it its terrorism. Your comment makes me think you haven't fully digested the situation and still think the US is a nation of laws. If so, you are gravely mistaken.

56
lemmy.dbzer0.com

There's no justice under the Robert's court. There wasn't any before the Robert's court, but there isn't any now either.

11

Yes. It's not binary, but a scale that keeps sliding further and further down the savagery of an uncivilized shithole.

11
fodorreply
lemmy.zip

You misunderstand. People will enforce the Castle Doctrine long before this gets to SCOTUS.

They already are, actually. I watched a video yesterday of a guy who said what he would do with his Second Amendment if ICE kicked in the door, and of course they ran away.

10
bitjunkiereply
lemmy.world

This is what the bootlickers in this thread seem to be missing… the first time it happens, all the rest of the ICE cosplay pussies are going to think twice before they create the circumstances for it to happen again. Death doesn't care about what the court says a year later.

4
Freefallreply
lemmy.world

Absolutely loving the Black Panther's approach! Stay strong out there. ✊🏿

5

Castle Doctrine the personal principle, yes. Castle doctrine the law that is upheld in court when unidentified masked men without a warrant bust into someone's home, get shot in the face and the courts respect the law as written even when it turns out after the fact it was ICE? Well, I'll believe it when I see it.

3
lemmy.zip

What these dumbasses (the ICE officers) aren't realizing is that this fascist administration wants these "agents" to get killed for stepping into the wrong house so they can use it as further justification for excessive force. Every ICE agent with boots on the ground is just a sacrificial lamb for their (the fascist regime's) racist agenda.

Edit: Added clarifications in parentheses.

Also, believe it or not, not every American owns a gun. The majority of those that do, own rifles intended for hunting or small handguns. Not weapons intended for military conflict. My SKS might deter a burglar, but it's just going to encourage a cadre of ICE agents to come in shooting.

36
mrgoosmoosreply
lemmy.ca

and what other dumbasses aren't realizing is that force is going to be escalated regardless, so you might as well kill them instead of get killed

25
Eheranreply
lemmy.world

Nonsense, if they get killed they very quickly stop acting like they have all the power and immunity, which they absolutely seem to still have. There is only ONE way to deal with bullies/narcissists/... and that is escalation.

8

Not just any random escalation, though.

The narcissist has a plan they are following their game. If that escalation is part of their plan, that's is absolutely not how you deal with them. Escalate, by all means. But only in a way that benefits your situation.

3

Ah yes because Trump has any sort of grand plan, sure sure. Well I guess let's just bow down then and capitulate, the 5D chess expert will beat us anyway.

4
wiareply
lemmy.ca

They killed a lady for existing and shit on her and her family. They never needed an excuse to escalate. They just do whatever. Time to fight back

1

When that dipshit lady got shot in the face at the capitol riots, they stopped pushing that window. Idiots in groups, even if they are armed, are still idiots...and conservatives more so due to their very strict sheep mentality. Remember kids, ICE isn't real agents and officers, it is maga cosplayers and they scare easy when they are shown a vulnerability.

2

Because they might die. They are not tough or smart or good at what they do, they are power tripping bullies. Trump is a narcissist. Both need their nose kicked in to change their behavior. When there is a serious chance of such consequences they will behave completely different.

4

Find some friends and don't go it alone in Minecraft!

2
leminal.space

Can't wait for dems to retake power eventually and do absolutely nothing to prosecute these criminals. 'We have to promote unity to heal the divide.'

If the dems were worth a damn they would be loudly shouting from the rooftops 'when we control the levers of power you will be held accountable for violating the constitution'

25

Agreed. We should commandeer it wherever we can for the immediate term, but we should ultimately leave the Democratic Party in the waste bin of history.

  1. They don’t represent us.
  2. They stood by while fascism took root, then welcomed them in with a smooth transition.
  3. Their name in itself is poisoned. There are folks who would have a much easier time separating themselves from their crazy peers if they had realistic options other than Democrats. The name is literally connected to everything evil by way of propaganda.

Let Schumer and Jeffries know that they are cunts, and will always be remembered as Democratic Cunts, the party that bent over for fascism.

1
feddit.org

Turns out all you need is a Supreme Court majority on your side and you can wipe your ass with the Constitution.

Obviously. That is the whole point of the Supreme Court. The surprising thing is that there wasn't more public concern when Trump selected his sycophant judges.

22
Freefallreply
lemmy.world

There was, but the .ml CCP mouthpieces reassured us we were being dramatic when we said the last election was critical and vote blue wasn't going to fix anything, but rather we had to vote for someone that had no chance and hand the election to the regressives. Shrug

2

The person you voted for had no chance because they spent the previous 4 years trying to be republicans, up to and including sending police to kick the shit out of the politically activated youth who make up the dem's ground game.

1
lemmy.world

The Nazis ruled Germany for 12 years. The Gestapo believed that they were untouchable. In the end, the leader was dead by suicide, the senior officers tried and executed, the junior officers hunted, tried, convicted, and executed, imprisoned or murdered, and those who weren't caught were hunted and on the run for the rest of their lives until they were dead.

I'm just saying.

21
Skullgridreply
lemmy.world

and those who weren’t caught were hunted and on the run for the rest of their lives until they were dead.

this is actually untrue in some cases. Some really made the getaway to Latin America and literally got away with it.

Josef Mengele is the worst for multiple reasons. He got married under his own name, WENT BACK TO GERMANY UNDER HIS REAL PASSPORT IN HIS REAL NAME ON HOLIDAY AND RETURNED, and died in a swimming accident after a normal lifespan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele#In_South_America

Mengele worked as a carpenter in Buenos Aires while lodging in a boarding house in the suburb of Vicente López.[95] After a few weeks, he moved to the house of a Nazi sympathizer in the neighborhood of Florida Este. He next worked as a salesman for his family's farm equipment company, Karl Mengele & Sons, and in 1951, he began making frequent trips to Paraguay as a regional sales representative for the firm.[96] He moved into an apartment in central Buenos Aires in 1953, used family funds to buy a part interest in a carpentry concern, and then rented a house in the suburb of Olivos in 1954

After obtaining a copy of his birth certificate through the West German embassy in 1956, Mengele was issued an Argentine foreign residence permit under his real name. He used this document to obtain a West German passport using his real name and embarked on a trip to Europe.[99][100] He met with his son Rolf (who was told Mengele was his "Uncle Fritz")[101] and his widowed sister-in-law Martha for a ski holiday in Switzerland. He also spent a week in his home town of Günzburg.[102][103] When he returned to Argentina in September 1956, Mengele applied for and received an Argentinian identity card under the name José Mengele, a variation of his real name

Martha and her son Karl Heinz followed about a month later, and the three began living together. Josef and Martha were married in 1958 while on holiday in Uruguay, and they bought a house in Buenos Aires

Rolf, who had not seen his father since the ski holiday in 1956, visited him at the bungalow in 1977; he found an "unrepentant Nazi" who claimed he had never personally harmed anyone and only carried out his duties as an officer.[138]

On 7 February 1979, while visiting his friends Wolfram and Liselotte Bossert in the coastal resort of Bertioga,[140] Mengele had a second stroke while swimming and drowned.

Just to remind you, this is Josef "The angel of death" Mengele, who experimented on human beings for funsies and just to see what would happen. The guy that Slayer wrote their biggest hit around. This prick got away with it all, learnt nothing, had no shame AND WENT BACK TO GERMANY ON HOLIDAY.

16

Is RFK Mengele in this scenario? Do you think there are many rocket scientists working for ICE? Are Trump's cabinet members political elites?

The Trump regime is a pedofascist kleptocratic idiocracy. ICE are the prison camp guards who were hunted relentlessly until they were caught or dead.

2

And most administrative people on the political side just continued to rule. There are plenty of German politicians today those parents or mentors were prominent collaborators.

If this goes historically barely anyone in power will be held responsible.

1
flaminglegreply
lemmy.ml

plenty of nazis ended up in nasa, in the UN and in argentina

6
Mrkawfeereply
lemmy.world

Plenty also ended up as politicians in West Germany or running NATO.

Denazification was a myth. Priorities shifted to dealing with the Soviets after WWII.

6

It was just impossible to implement, also people able to run the country were needed when it was in rubble.

Anyone who had any kind of meaningful job had to enlist with the nazi party.

If Trump required enlistment in a Maga party to work in the US, what do you think people would do?

1
Wrrzagreply
lemmy.ml

In the DDR maybe. In the west they were so on the run that they ran themselves into being NATO's chief staff officer, working for the US, getting into politics or just dicking around in South America.

1

Which of the people in the Trump regime do you think are at the same intellectual level? Rocket scientists? Brilliant physicians?

The Nazi elite were evil geniuses. The Trumpers are just evil.

4
lemmy.world

As a European I am baffled the civil war has not even started yet.

21

It's crazy right? Especially since americans were so vocal about all of the amendments and chekcs and balances for decades which turned out to mean absolutely nothing.

16
sh.itjust.works

Nobody wants to start it because the consequences would be huge and right now sitting around doing nothing is still possible.

11

If they decide to follow this memo and actual law enforcement do not care, sitting around doing nothing will not remain an option.

8
Jako302reply
feddit.org

At least from an outside perspective it seems like the consequence are inevitable. Sitting around only delays everything and increases the overall suffering.

4

Yeah, I should mention that my perspective is very much an outside one. I've never been to the American continent. But I think a lot of us are tired of nothing happening even if it's better than the alternative in the short term.

1
sheogorathreply
lemmy.world

It just need someone snapping and starts shooting ICE. Then all hell will break loose. IIRC there's some political scientists doing a simulation on how a civil war might start in modern America and it's eerily similar to what's been going on right now. There's only two steps left, someone shooting ICE and then the federal government starts sending troops to take over State and clashing between federal military and the national guard.

4
lemmy.world

How would you even simulate something that relies almost entirely on non-deterministic human behaviours?

2

Indeed!

But doing nothing did and does validate what he is doing.

1

I know, he's also hoping for it. There is no good solution. He will just go on.

2
lemmy.world

What about this memo that says they can’t? It also states we can bear arms to protect ourselves from tyranny so… check mate Nazis

19
Sunflierreply
lemmy.world

They clearly abandoned their oaths at all levels, so that document doesn't mean anything anymore if everybody willfully ignores it daily. At that point, it's just ink on a paper that is just barley better than a spill.

13
Formfillerreply
lemmy.world

And that means we are well within our legal rights to fight back

7

Probably. I wouldn't be surprised if RC cars become a common threat in urban America or something. We live in shitty and interesting times.

5

I heard people speculate that this time in America will be a lot like the “troubles” in Ireland

4

The mask of rule of law slips to reveal the reality of might makes right. You better outnumber and outgun them, to enforce these rights.

4
Sunflierreply
lemmy.world

Nothing of value will be lost.

-Both sides, but for different reasons.

5
argarathreply
lemmy.world

Those bullets could have been used for fun evenings in the gun range, so there was some lost value

6

Poor innocent bullets are gonna be forced into ICE agents instead of deer-shaped steel plates. How sad.

2
lemmy.world

I’m sorry, they’ll have to speak with our attorneys at Heckler & Koch

12
lemmy.world

I think that's part of the plan. Have an Icehole get shot in the face so they can ratchet up the violence.

9
AbidanYrereply
lemmy.world

In a country where you can be shot for ringing the wrong doorbell or turning around in the wrong driveway it's only a matter of time before these idiots get the wrong house.

11

People get shot at the drive thru because Burger King ran out of ketchup packets.

It's only a matter of time until one of these squads of door-kicking ICE goons gets perforated on a suburban front lawn.

2

it's only a matter of time, you guys kill cable guys and postmen, imagine when randos get their doors kicked in by ICE.

6

And then they burn your house down with you in it. Is that part of your plan, because it's their plan.

1
Fedizenreply
lemmy.world

Its not, but if you are going to Home Alone a bunch of ICE agents illegally entering your house, please record that shit. If its funny enough the jury will absolutely not convict you.

Imagine those fucks stepping on toy cars and sliding down a stairwell or being hit with powdered sugar and then set on fire.

28
lemmy.world

Now I want to see a version of Home Alone where it's ICE and all the traps are as deadly as they would be in real life.

There would be piles of bodies around the McCallister house. I wonder if Mac Culkin is busy these days

7
lemmy.world

No, that's illegal. But AFAIK in all states you can wait inside your door with a shotgun and blast anyone who breaks into your home illegally.

Better yet, you have the constitutional right to organize 30 or your neighbors to use guns to protect each other from marauding thugs.

11
lemmy.zip

Is it still considered a booty trap if it's activated by an evil AI AI programmed to follow castle doctrine?

1
infosec.pub

Fight back! But consider:

  1. Why do they want direct violence with their thugs?
  2. Direct violence with ICE leads to direct violence with police, MAGA civi-thugs and military.
  3. Would MAGA base have the same violent and visceral reaction if violent events happened to wealthy folks whom they probably never heard of who live in disconnected realities from their own??? A thought tickles my mind that maybe they would not. Maybe it’s a pathway…
8
Sunflierreply
lemmy.world

Direct violence with ICE leads to direct violence with police

ICE is a police force. So it'd already be with police.

1
lemmy.world

Turns out all you need is a Supreme Court majority on your side and you can wipe your ass with the Constitution.

Same as it's always been, they're just being more brazen about it

8

You don't even need the courts of your side. The Regime has directly defied court orders time and time again.

What you really need is a citizenry that's too afraid or complicit to defend themselves.

2

Too true, but I’m pretty sure courts haven’t ruled on this yet and plenty of courts have ruled for the law and constitution.

There’s a reason the memo was secret. They absolutely know how wrong it is and are not confident their rubber stamp Supreme Court will let it slide

2

That's funny, because I say I can shoot someone for an armed unlawful entry. So either the law is on my side, or the laws are illegitimate and are irrelevant anyway. I guess we'll just have to disagree.

7

Nowhere in that article did it even imply that the Supreme Court would support warrantless entry into a person's home. In fact, it said that this policy contradicts many years of court precedent.

This is just more legal manipulation of the Constitution. Just have some psychopath MAGA traitor INVENT his own law, write it down (because he's one of the few that can), and all the rest of them can wink and agree that since it is written down, and called a MEMO, it is perfectly legal, and a reasonable basis for an entire predatory and parasitic paramilitary enforcement operation. It is NOT.

However, they will proceed as of it is, without tipping anyone off for as long as possible, and when it finally gets discovered, and challenged in court, they'll slowly drag it through the legal process, all the whole continuing to follow the policy as if it is a perfectly legal and reasonable policy that is just having a little regulatory snafu, as peoples' lives get systematically destroyed, along with all of America.

6

They will absolutely come for the guns next. Once the population is disarmed the civil war will begin. Martial law. Police state. No privacy protections. All amendments abolished. Civil rights act abolished. Military checkpoints at all state borders. Reinstated draft. 10% inflation. 20% unemployment. Reeducation centers. Prison work camps. State takeover of media. Iron curtain. Restricted Internet.

This year. Get out while the borders are open.

6

Don't got the money for that. My best option is to fight, provided the people of my state are also willing to die for a better future.

10
infosec.pub

If you think they will take guns away from Americans in 2026 at any kind of scale you are very naive

9
lemmy.world

Prisoners are profitable and will only become increasingly profitable as they start using them as slave labor, which is specifically allowed under the Constitution. Only chattle slavery was abolished. When they are no longer subject to being voted out of office there is every incentive in the world to arrest people.

So new executive order: we gotta stop all the school shootings therefore all guns are illegal. Gun owners will be required to turn in their weapons in exchange for a pennies on the dollar buyback. These weapons will then be sold by the government to who the fuck knows. This will be followed by a house to house compliance check where you either produce your receipt or submit to a warrantless search. Anyone caught with a weapon will be sent to a prison work camp making iPhones and drones. Simple as that.

Oh you want to fight back? Bueno, now you're a terrorist. This justifies further military presence in your town and seizure of all of your assets. You will be lucky if your family isn't required to pay upfront for your prison stay.

I am not being naive. I am being real. I am an American but I was not educated in the American school system. I understand what is happening because it has happened a thousand times to a thousand other countries. There is a standard operation of events and we are following a textbook march into dictatorship.

2

We are witnessing an administration who does not consider themselves to be bound by established laws and norms. We are watching our constitutional rights being eroded one by one in real time. Do you think he will ever say "oh man I would love to do something but it would be illegal if I did". Who is being naive now?

3

Other than the black Panthers ain't nobody already with guns doing anything right now.

8
lemmy.world

This year. Get out while the borders are open.

Some people have to stay behind to sabotage the Regime.

1

You mean the ones that have been voting for this stuff since the 80s? I hope they get what they deserve

3
aussie.zone

Get out

And will you run from the country you go to and leave it to fend for itself, too?

Why can’t you people stand for something other than yourselves? It starts with voting, if you get the chance.

Just do your duty you lazy, lazy shits. Fucking vote, if you get a chance again. In the meantime stay home, peacefully shut production down which is now your only option, and don’t let this shit happen again.

0
aussie.zone

Here we go, fucking excuses again, touched with an insult this time.

You douche rocketeer, how the fuck do you think Republicans have gained so much control over several elections? Because they voted. They didn’t piss and moan like you, they voted.

It’s no fucking coup you clown, the citizens voted them in and they’re now doubling down on fascism. They didn’t coup it, they were handed it on a platter. Over several elections as well.

You have no excuses. Stop pissing and moaning. Now it’s a national shutdown or you’re fucked. Try the easy way next time, goose.

1
lemmy.world

I'm not talking about the Republicans that were voted for. I'm talking about who they are now becoming. This is very obviously a coordinated effort to change the foundations of our system into something it's not.

I apologize for the insult. That was not cool.

1
aussie.zone

This was very obviously a coordinated…

Which we all knew about, the whole world knew.

The US citizenry has had ample chances among several warnings, including a trial run, to fix this. They never turn out in enough numbers to make any difference. In 2016 you were telling people who were telling you to vote to mind their own business and it was a right not to vote.

The Republicans were always the same. They haven’t changed, there’s just no mask now.

That’s okay, I swung a couple back which I guess I shouldn’t have either.

1
lemmy.world

FUCK. just... Idk FUCK. I'm pretty sure we are both on the same side but are equally pissed off from opposite sides of the same problem

We are all experiencing the consequences of a plan laid out long before people were looking close enough to see pawns for the queens.

I think the "so what do we do now" argument is over. We are at triage levels now. Yes protests are necessary. Protests are the immune system that will save us all eventually, but I'm not a leukocyte. I am a platelet. I am the strong back with a broom and a shovel that will clean up when it's over. The survivors are the ones who rebuild.

2

I’m just annoyed that Americans as a collective can’t take the responsibility of voting seriously. Can’t take the easier route to what they want.

These people know the population won’t vote and are dependent on that. It truly is the reason why that country has the leaders it has, and the quality those leaders reflect the participation. Sure, I know there are obstacles such as the Electoral College but an 80-90% turnout stops all that.

Really, with the system that exists there, the only way is to put in those needed in primaries with a huge turnout, then vote for those in the major election. If that doesn’t quite work in the primaries, vote anyway and go again. It’s the only way; the current incumbents aren’t going to offer a better system or change the way they think.

There are three things that can change this now. One is international intervention, in the sense that enough nations cut complete ties with the US. The second is that the or enough members of both houses come together to impeach. These two aren’t that likely in my view but that's an opinion, I might be wrong.

The third, the one in the citizens hands, the easiest way out now, is to stop work, purchasing, everything…shut the means of production down. Hopefully that would put number two into play. That requires unity and a self imposed hardship that I don’t think exists in that country unfortunately.

Voting really is important.

Edited: second last paragraph

1
mander.xyz

And will you run from the country you go to and leave it to fend for itself, too?

China is unlikely to want non-citizens fighting, Vietnam is staying neutral, Japan and Korea are going to be on the wrong side.

IG if I somehow end up in South America I'd do what I can.

Europe would probably deport me to get drafted by the guys they're fighting like they do Russians.

I can't think of any other places I might end up.

1

I am in China right now. Do you think they'll revoke my visa if Trump does some more rly dumb shit or something?

1
lemmy.today

Write a 2nd edition of Das Kapital. Karl Marx was a smart cookie, and would want to draw on historical examples of success and failure, be it capitalism, communism, or social democracy.

Also, epic rap battles.

Henry Ford vs Karl Marx

1
lemmy.world

Oh my fucking god... Every comment in this stupid thread is saying the same stupid thing. "Time to get your guns...", "Exercise your 2nd amendment... " Yeah, that's hilarious tough guy. Do you have a gun? No? well do you have a gun license? No? Well do you know the first thing about firearms? You do! Oh you've played several call of duty games... Awesome. Do you know that you're statistically more likely to shoot a family member than a home intruder? Well I hope you don't like them much.

Ok, moving past the idiotic bravado... It sounds like you have no solution for people who aren't just itching to murder other people. Say for instance, that I have no interest in shooting someone, and in fact feel that a civil society should not involve shooting anyone, especially fellow countrymen. With that in mind, for the sane perhaps 70% of Americans, do you have any useful advice besides "get a gun"?

Finally, if your plan does work and every American arms themselves, then congratulations, we've fallen into civil war 2. Now what? Even if you do have guns, the government has bigger ones and they have munitions you don't. You will always, always be outgunned by the military. Now being armed makes you a hostile combatant/terrorist agent in the eyes of the law, anything you do with it will be deemed illegal. Some good that 2nd amendment is doing you. What's your plan now?

-22

So you plan to just take the abuse and the loss of your liberties and freedoms?

I'll stick to my guns.

15

well do you have a gun license?

Tell me you're describing your own lack of experience with firearms without telling me you're describing your own lack of experience with firearms.

15
lemmy.world

People break into my house I'm with intent to harm me andy family

This guy: welp. Guess I'll die.

10
Cocodapufreply
lemmy.world

Guess I'll defend myself, but not with a gun.

Says 80% of the global population...

Yeah, that's such a weird stance. It's just what the vast majority of people do.

-8

You're welcome to not have guns. No one is forcing you to defend yourself. You can fight ICE with your bare hands if you want.

But maybe don't shit on others for wanting to be pragmatic.

9
baller_wreply
lemmy.zip

As a gun owner, I agree with this. Open fire on ICE…see how that goes. You won’t win. You might kill one, but they will CERTAINLY kill your back. Isn’t it odd that in the most armed county on earth, no ICE officers have been shot in the line of duty (check me there, but I’m not familiar with one)?

Seems like most people are focused on the gun thing here. You already said it; what civil solution do we have?

6
lemmy.ml

Protests, which are doing little to nothing. What happens when those fail? This is extreme fedposting.

4
baller_wreply
lemmy.zip

Me, looking up what fedposting is…lol. Ben Jordan did a great video on that or something similar. Quickly becoming my favorite YouTuber.

You make a good point; protest, write representatives, all good things. Vote in the midterms (assuming we have them).

All that said, it doesn’t make what I said untrue. Post 2nd amendment stuff if it’s cathartic, but think it through.

I’m shook by how powerless I feel and guns don’t help the situation. But that feeling of helplessness is a feature of the fascism playbook.

1

I am not saying go straight to mindlessly shooting people, that won't happen and will certainly only hurt people. I am saying that if these options do fail, which they have every time they haven't been backed up with the threat of violence, options are limited with what can be done next.

2
Freefallreply
lemmy.world

Honestly, an .ml agreeing is the only thing giving me pause. That suggests the CCP wants us shooting each other and their agents are stoking that rage. Interesting.

1

You see one user of the original instance and you assume I'm CCP? If it were that straight forwardly obvious, wouldn't you think they'd move to a new instance? No, I'm saying because I know my history and am actually in the thick of it in America unlike you, you troll. What rage would even be stoked?

1

Community building. That's the best thing we can do right now. Building social structures to help take care of everyone when the crumbling system will inevitably fail us. This can include making sure that vulnerable people are safe when ICE are sighted in the local area.

3
Freefallreply
lemmy.world

We will will revolt so you can stay cozy, lil buddy. Already fought a war over bullshit that didn't help Americans or our security...it will be nice actually be fighting for a cause this time.

2

When you feel powerless and don't know how to fix a situation it's only natural to want to do something, that makes perfect sense. But it's worth remembering, that there is no situation so bad that you can't still make it worse. Sometimes when all your options are bad, waiting to act is in fact the correct course of action.

More Americans died in the civil war than in any other American conflict. This is despite the increasing lethality of weaponry over the years, despite the scope and length of wars like WW2. Following the war much of the country was left in ruin, the economic cost was staggering, it took decades to recover.

My point is, starting a war is a bad idea. Sure, at least it's doing something, but it's doing the wrong thing, it's the opposite of helping.

2

Completely agree.

Now if they fix this up, they might shut up about how great it is and how free it keeps them because that’s all we ever fuckin heard.

2