The Algorithm used to match people isn't designed to encourage healthy and normal conversations. It's designed to encourage people to spend more time on the apps (and, eventually, more money).
This is exactly how it works - I became single after 13 years and so had no previous experience with dating apps, so I decided to go all in and get one month’s subscription to Hinge, Bumble and Grindr. Before the end of the month I was concurrently dating five people (four women and one man) as a bi man in his thirties. Shit was pretty cash.
A lot of people asked me why I was so successful and I told them it’s because I paid for the subscriptions. For what ended up amounting to around $100AUD I got to date a bunch of people, had some great dates and great sex, and one of those five people is now my long term partner with whom I’m living. She was one of the ‘top recommended’ people on Hinge and the algorithm really got it right!
YMMV but paying for the apps actually provides quite a good service.
I think people's biggest fear with paying for the apps is that they'll end up in a situation where they are just throwing good money after bad and not getting anything for it. Then you get into the sunk cost fallacy and it's really difficult to get yourself out of that headspace.
The problem is the apps say that they have recommendations that you only have to pay to unlock but I don't believe them.
I keep meaning to have a proper look into it and see if there are any actual dating site / apps that are independent. It's a massive pain because usually you can't really tell if an app is going to be any good or if it's just another clone until after you've already signed up. It's quite the time investment.
I tried Lovetastic and liked the fact that they don’t use pictures and it’s mostly based on text
They don’t seem to have advanced algorithms that are here to fuck you
But hey, I met my SO on a relatively niche but non ethical dating app. It was filed with ads and badly optimized but I figured out the algorithm wouldn’t be all ELO type of shit, and it worked after some time
This is the bumble experience lol. The man still has to do the real first message because the woman's first message is going to be "hey" 99% of the time.
As a man I also sent just hi to everyone. Reasoning behind that was that if there is any interest, they would reply with something. Like a ping. When we’d get to know better I could be more personal. Found a great partner this way, we’ve been together for 5 years now.
I had a formula: "Hi!", my real first name, a brief mention and open-ended question about something I found interesting on their profile,, then closing with something like "Online dating can be a lot. I'd love to hear from you, but only when you're ready. No pressure. I hope you have a great day."
So about four sentences. It took me like two minutes. I got about 1 response in 10 instead of over 1:30 that way, at least from women. Success!
I then proceeded to have all of the worst dates I've ever been on. One person showed up on shrooms, a woman interrogated me about marriage and children within ten minutes of meeting, another seemed to be fabricating their entire life story on the spot... and more! There were good dates too, but soooo much bad.
I agree, you just should tell people first! Unsolicited story time:
We had been dating for a few weeks. She was smart, nice, and very fun. I really liked her and had decided to consider getting serious. I thought she had ghosted me for our dinner date, though, so I had left and was feeling sad. She called over an hour later to apologize profusely and beg me to come back, saying she'd explain and buy everything that night as apology.
What she didn't mention was that she was going to alternate between incoherent rambling and staring, silent and unresponsive, into one corner of the cafe's ceiling. I had no idea what was going on. I got ahold of her roommate, who said she had eaten a bunch of shrooms and walked to her friend's house. I left after he arrived and I learned he was her roommate... and her boyfriend. Fun.
I went full no contact. Years later, we worked together briefly in graduate school, where she pretended not to know me despite having already told our lab mates we used to be friends. Super awkward, maybe mental problems.
Hey Grok, this person on the dating website said Hii \n Cool hair what should I send back? I want to sound slightly interested, but almost dismissive, like they need to prove that I'm worth their time, but so far I just said Hey
Grok: have you considered saying thank you?
eww, whole words? I'm not a geriatric
Grok: perhaps you could say ty
god, you're not help, i already thought if that but i'm afraid it makes me sound too disinterested
Grok: Have you tried photoshopping their head onto a nude photo? I can help you....
god grok, you're so useless, i'm just going to post tyyy, so it sounds like i'm saying thank yooooouuuu! like I mean it but in the least number of characters so it doesn't sound like I mean it too much.
The issue isn't talking to women. The issue is talking to people you are attracted to.
I'm bi but I'm not attracted everyone. And I can tell you it takes a lot more from me to talk to someone I'm attracted to and I don't think I could easily just be normal friends with someone I badly want to fuck and just have normal conversations with them.
The fundamental issue here is that they call this dating when it's something else entirely. They should have made a new name for it when it became like sifting through resumes.
Here's a name for it: Intimate Individual Review Sessions. Prospective team members must engage in touchpoints so that they may energize their velocity for fast paced interview opportunities.
But are they men? Have you seen gay dudes flirting? It ain't the same. Sure, they're people, what else would we all be? But they're distinctively different from men.
They’re really not. Every person is different from every other person, but a woman is still just a person. And most people aren’t comfortable being treated like they’re different.
Be friendly and most people will also be friendly.
I have many friends who are women, and a wife who is a woman, and none of them are significantly different for me to talk to than men. I don’t know what to tell you.
Sure there are cultural differences. Men are more likely to discuss some topics than women are, and vice versa. And there are stereotypical differences like women being more open with their feelings (though I’ve always been pretty open about my own as a man). We assign plenty of interests to specific genders, but there are always those who cross those lines.
I’ve always found that treating women essentially the same way I treat men has worked just fine.
My wife is a woman too and most of my friends are women too and, unless you're surrounded by masculine women or are yourself a feminine man, people's tendencies, things they'll tolerate and preferences are largely defined down sex lines, with small variations. Not that this matters, but saying "be nice, people are people" is both true and foundational and also completely useless to any straight dude trying to escape loneliness, lol.
It's sad things like this that make me think, it's too bad church is all fucked up with religion. Because "Entire families, plus any single individuals, get washed and dressed up, then join under the stained-glass windows to sit and stand and sing and go through the motions, while all the eligible sweeties pretend they're not checking out all the other eligible sweeties, and have a whole hour to think of something to say to them over the coffee and cookies afterwards. Repeat weekly" is pretty much how a lot of people found partners for generations. Especially those whose families couldn't afford ballrooms and country clubs.
There are of course things like hobby clubs you can join but you have to get lucky with those. There risk that you will just be distracted and end up with an expensive hobby.
I actually found one in my neighborhood! It is called "Unitarian Universalist", it is for secular and religious, everybody is welcome, you just have to agree to love each other, etc.
i just don't like how it keeps so many trappings of traditional protestant church services, i mean i know why to attract more people since that is the dominant cultural force but just doesn't sit right with me to ruminate over the bible and pretend it is some enlightened tome of truth in a supposedly secular context
No. College is: expensive, heavily skews young, has a lot of homework, has tests, and generally represents a significant time commitment.
Realistically, I should probably put more effort into finding a suitable recurring volunteer opportunity. Something that is based on personal values would presumably help with finding like-minded people while also engaging in an activity that is inherently meaningful to me.
i'd like to keep in mind that flirting with women in a work (or education) related environment is considered sexual harassment, which is not so the case outside (like 3rd spaces).
I'm probably being too generous with what I'm calling community center, I should edit it. As an example, in my head I was picturing a local park which my city has folks come and perform at and such. It's just a stage in a park but there are events there.
I was raised going to UCC churches, it was standard practice at all of them. Many also used King's Hawaiian Bread for Communion.
And they're one of the LGBTQ-friendliest denominations, although because they're non-hierarchical the individual churches vary. You can see if there's one near you.
Had a couple of lady friends who went on vacation to Europe - Spain and France, specifically - and had totally different experiences on the dating apps. Men were open and friendly, knew how to hold up a conversation (in non-native languages!), showed politeness, responded quickly, made first contact easy and low-anxiety, looked good, smelled nice, knew how to dance, charmed the panties right off them both, and then kept in contact afterwards. Like, even after they flew back home, these guys were still saying "Hey, what's up, here's something cool happening in my neighborhood can't wait to see you again".
Just a radically different experience than the American dating scene. One friend straight up swore off American men entirely. She's booking a flight back to France for a three month go - working remote, learning the language, the whole thing - because of how blown away by the healthier and happier social conditions over there.
It's a two way street. Some people need to go to some completely different place to relax enough, and some other people bet on tourists being relaxed enough.
I even remember that kind of effect from school, during school time I would always get into fights with kids that I was happily hanging around with in the holidays.
Tourist hunters are different. They know France is, for some reason, the first worldwide destination and flock here to steal your wallets. They'll be on the steps to the Sacré Cœur to tie a bit of string around your wrist while a comparse grabs your wallet, your keys, your underwear and your toupee.
The apps reflect the underlying culture and social order. They weren't the only reason. Go spend a week in the south of France after spending half your life in Galveston and you'll understand.
Really depends on your circumstances. There's nothing radical about changing careers or finding a nicer place to live when you've hit a glass ceiling. Humans have been doing that for tens of thousands of years. It's why we're not all living in the Fertile Crescent.
Hol up, I thought we were talking about moving to a whole ass new continent for some really good foreign dick, not because of hitting a glass ceiling lmao
Yeah but that's not dating that's a hookup. Completely different ball game. Much easier to maintain a facade for a couple of days when both parties know that there is no potential for relationship.
Actual dating requires you to maintain for the long haul.
It's exactly as you say, people in France and some other places in southern Europe like italy and spain actually know how to treat women properly. and they don't even have "feminism" (i.e. forced smiles and if you don't behave you go to jail) there. What they have is common sense and centuries of experience with how to actually treat women well.
I mean, they do have feminism. The trick to understanding feminism is to recognize how it benefits both genders when the walls of segregation and elitism come down.
Once you're able to treat each other as peers, rather than income streams or commodities, you develop the kind of common sense they enjoy.
Prepare for a changed experience. europe is hating the USA and US americans more and more every day. I get the ick when i hear americans on the street. Gtfo and kill trump.
This reminds me when Americans used to talk about how there is no innocent Russian, because Putin is in-charge, and they don't risk their lives to overthrow him.
Well, now you see it's not so simple, and why genocide against a people, you simply cannot justify.
Nah, distinguish yourself and I'll give you grace.
I literally only said that because after establishing that my first reaction to noticing an American is 'fuck them' but realised that doesn't hold because there are plenty of good Americans.
You guys are just way too willing to put up with evil nonsense despite being 'free' and you having legal guns?
I'd be far more forgiving if every default American didn't have the most rancid vibes. As they speak I can ease up if what comes out isn't atrocious.
I'm just describing that Americans are the pariah now I guess...
You always treat other countries as fully responsible for their leaders despite you guys having far more claim of individual liberty and armory to brandish, but wishing we would treat you all as powerless?
As a cishet man who isn't passionate about hyping himself up and gets burnt out socially easily...
No one on dating apps is worth the effort required to overcome the illusion of comparison. We don't know you and we're not going become infatuated over what you can put in a profile. At most our interest will be piqued, but we know we have to compete with HUNDREDS of other dudes and ...ehhhhh.
To put it another way if I was at a party and there was a beautiful girl surrounded by 10 to 20 dudes I wouldn't even bother and instead try to have fun and talk to people I found interesting. But with dating apps pretty much every girl is always surrounded by guys like that trying too hard and the same guys are surrounding as many girls as possible since online they are not limited by the physics of space online.
It is from 2023. I don't know when they changed what. But the last time I used it, women had to start the conversation but they could set a question to ask automatically, skipping the first message
My experience was, about half just let the match time out, and most of the remaining half opened with something like "hey.", or that gif of Monica from friends waving at you.
Also, a decent chunk of people had profiles on Tinder as well.
I was taught to treat others the way I want to be treated, but this causes friction when I want to be harassed and catcalled the way cartoon construction workers harass and catcall women, but women don't like that at all. 😩
Man I feel this but at the same time idk wtf I'd do if it actually happened. Like if some cutie started cataccling me I'd be like 'wait me? For real? No wait really? Are you sure? Have you had your eyes checked?'
I have actually been catcalled before, but it was in somewhat close proximity. It was in Vegas and it was a group of girls who were walking toward me and one yelled, "Hey! She likes your hair!" (I have anime-esque hair)
I was more confused than anything, then embarrassed, then amused. Us guys get so little attention that I've been going out of my way to compliment other guys in a non-flurting way.
There’s a lot of women who can’t do that either. It’s not a movie and a lot of us have the same executive functioning disorders that make this confusing. I think people need to find someone who connects with them so pretending to be someone else is a bad strategy
I'm so bad at flirting over text. I can do it irl somewhat once the first bit of convo gets jumpstarted but mannn dating apps kill me. I get far more people down to hang in person than ever from a dating app.
"I took a mad shit today, it smelt acidic bro, even after I flushed, it stuck to the side of the bowel. I used my kegel muscles to piss at Mach 10 speed, but all it really did it spray a bit of piss on the toilet seat. So anyway how you doing, are you free to catch up for a coffee?"
I’m sure there’s someone out there for you but generally unfiltered honesty increases after a relationship has been established. You probably wouldn’t start a conversation with this when meeting anyone new but if you would I’m sure someone like that is out there there’s a lot of weirdos out there
Talking to women and talking to women you want to date are slightly different things tbh. The latter doesn't necessarily come naturally for all.
And online, it gets even harder oftentimes. Creating a captivating conversation out of an empty bio, two generic photos and a name? That's still damn difficult for me and I've been on tinder for like 4 years out of the last 8. Obviously it's easier if the conversational partner throws you a bone. OOP didn't exactly have a great opener to begin with and then was given a "tyyy". Try riffing on that. Good luck. I can see why OOP gave up on the conversation.
Online "dating" sucks. I'm sure women have their own reasons why it sucks (safety in particular), but for men it sucks because generally speaking, you're expected to prove yourself as an interesting conversational partner within 2-3 messages. Even on Bumble it's the same, as seen in the screenshot. Women have to write first there, but usually it's just "hi" or an emoji.
So I also don't know how to talk to women. I have female friends. I'm not an incel, I've had a couple of long-term relationships and some, eh, situationships I guess? Even some with people I met on dating apps. Meet me in person? We're staying awake talking until 5 AM. Actually give me something to riff about in your bio or at least reply to me with more than one word? We're at the very least going to have a fun conversation, maybe meet in real life. But give me an empty bio and one word replies? I'm sorry, but I just don't know how to talk to you.
That's half the girls on Tinder sadly. I tend to swipe most of the empty bios left and lately just abandon the conversation if the other half doesn't seem interested or interesting enough to at least reply with something creative too.
But that's just the reality of online "dating". It's a numbers game and heavily in favour of women. As someone once said, men are looking for drinking water in the desert, while women are looking for it in the ocean. Sucks for everyone, just in different ways.
I did, end result was someone actually contacts me for a date, but I just...don't feel anything, so I just end up talking to hear her life story, and nothing actually happens.
I will be single for life 🥲
But that's ok! I don't want to drag anyone into a relationship with a miserable person who does not want to live anyway (hence, relationships are last place).
The funny thing is that it wasn't always this bad. When i used tinder the first time, i installed it, got like 20 matches, talked to some people and met up with one or two. It was free and unlimited, except to see who matched you and super likes and all that shit.
It just got periodically worse and worse. The last time i used tinder was this summer and it's disgusting. The app is designed to prevent you from getting matches, the only ones who swiped on me live in china, kenya or Thailand. Expectations have gone through the roof.
With all that said, i actually met someone that i really love and we both are kind of in the same boat. Neither me or her have ever met someone that they liked as much, and i would've never met her without these shitty ass apps.
To whoever said that (or anyone who DON'T talk to people when trying to date): have you tried improv? Improv comedy would help you talk to people better, and would probably give you the confidence and courage
So if a person struggles with confidence your solution is for them to stand up on stage? There seems to be an important first step that seems to have been skipped.
To practice improv is just to practice social skills. And, I don't know how else to say this, a lack of social skill is the fundamental root problem here. Anyone who lacks confidence in this way is going to have to learn them one way or another.
A real first step might be learning to be brave and charging through one's anxiety to get to the improv center, but they have to go. Whether it's improv or something else, they have to go.
Dying a virgin is so underatted. You can only be manipulated so long as you have wants, so long as you specifically want something from other people, they will just exploit you.
If I learned anything from the internet she's basically your wife now. Start collecting pieces of string and straw because you're gonna be building a nest soon!
An unsolicited photo of something random might not be something everyone responds to. I wouldn't necessarily send a response.
So if she doesn't respond, it doesn't definitively mean she doesn't want to talk to you. Maybe try again with something that actually indicates that you're looking for a response. Like ... ask a question about something you know you have in common.
Did you finish the reading for class? I think the part about ABC could be interpreted to apply to XYZ. What do you think?
You said you like comedians. Have you seen the new Marcello Hernandez special on Netflix?
Make it something that could turn into an actual conversation if she answers you.
Nah, you will have a bunch of those sad lonely assholes that want to be like tate. And you will have normal people with empathy that get most of the girls.
The manospehere is self-defeating. They can only get additional members by preying on sad loners with no experience in women. Once they do get experience (if ever), they quickly realize how much they got lied to, or they will lose the women that got them their experience in the first place.
And you will have normal people with empathy that get most of the girls.
I think that isn't entirely true. Because there isn't just a manosphere, there is also a "womanosphere" who seems to be hell-bent on exploiting men. Like, there's a huge amount of clips of woman saying that men that don't earn enough/are not tall enough/don't pay everything/etc are useless. This entire situation isn't only the fault of andrew tate and other wannabe-"alphas" - barely any situation ever is the fault of a single party - but it's basically "teamwork" between those two really toxic bubbles and all the normal people are basically caught in the crossfire.
The apps are literally designed to keep you single
While yes, that is the case, I cannot help but feel it's not the app's fault this time
The Algorithm used to match people isn't designed to encourage healthy and normal conversations. It's designed to encourage people to spend more time on the apps (and, eventually, more money).
yeah we need sth like fediverse dating services tbh
I used to think this. Then I went on some dates, I made connections, etc.
But only once I started paying. The apps are built to maximize profit.
Hinge > Boo > Tinder > Bumble.
This is exactly how it works - I became single after 13 years and so had no previous experience with dating apps, so I decided to go all in and get one month’s subscription to Hinge, Bumble and Grindr. Before the end of the month I was concurrently dating five people (four women and one man) as a bi man in his thirties. Shit was pretty cash.
A lot of people asked me why I was so successful and I told them it’s because I paid for the subscriptions. For what ended up amounting to around $100AUD I got to date a bunch of people, had some great dates and great sex, and one of those five people is now my long term partner with whom I’m living. She was one of the ‘top recommended’ people on Hinge and the algorithm really got it right!
YMMV but paying for the apps actually provides quite a good service.
I think people's biggest fear with paying for the apps is that they'll end up in a situation where they are just throwing good money after bad and not getting anything for it. Then you get into the sunk cost fallacy and it's really difficult to get yourself out of that headspace.
The problem is the apps say that they have recommendations that you only have to pay to unlock but I don't believe them.
Ok well, I haven't had that kind of success. But success none the less.
The issue here, beside being a sample of one is that you immediately paid so other factors could be in play.
Most apps are owned by like 2 companies really
Yeah and they all suck as a result.
I keep meaning to have a proper look into it and see if there are any actual dating site / apps that are independent. It's a massive pain because usually you can't really tell if an app is going to be any good or if it's just another clone until after you've already signed up. It's quite the time investment.
Yea most of them suck
I tried Lovetastic and liked the fact that they don’t use pictures and it’s mostly based on text
They don’t seem to have advanced algorithms that are here to fuck you
But hey, I met my SO on a relatively niche but non ethical dating app. It was filed with ads and badly optimized but I figured out the algorithm wouldn’t be all ELO type of shit, and it worked after some time
Worked just fine for me.
Feel free to ask for advice or whatever.
YoU hAvE tO rEaD bEtWeEn tHe LiNeS Or sOmE sHiT - her probably
It's literally a first contact. These apps are exhausting and texting requires effort from both parties.
Even funnier with the timestamps
9/11 of a conversation
Tbf she made zero effort to converse with OOP either
This is the bumble experience lol. The man still has to do the real first message because the woman's first message is going to be "hey" 99% of the time.
As a man I also sent just hi to everyone. Reasoning behind that was that if there is any interest, they would reply with something. Like a ping. When we’d get to know better I could be more personal. Found a great partner this way, we’ve been together for 5 years now.
I had a formula: "Hi!", my real first name, a brief mention and open-ended question about something I found interesting on their profile,, then closing with something like "Online dating can be a lot. I'd love to hear from you, but only when you're ready. No pressure. I hope you have a great day."
So about four sentences. It took me like two minutes. I got about 1 response in 10 instead of over 1:30 that way, at least from women. Success!
I then proceeded to have all of the worst dates I've ever been on. One person showed up on shrooms, a woman interrogated me about marriage and children within ten minutes of meeting, another seemed to be fabricating their entire life story on the spot... and more! There were good dates too, but soooo much bad.
hey, shrooms dates can be a way to get to know someone real quick, good or bad
I agree, you just should tell people first! Unsolicited story time:
We had been dating for a few weeks. She was smart, nice, and very fun. I really liked her and had decided to consider getting serious. I thought she had ghosted me for our dinner date, though, so I had left and was feeling sad. She called over an hour later to apologize profusely and beg me to come back, saying she'd explain and buy everything that night as apology.
What she didn't mention was that she was going to alternate between incoherent rambling and staring, silent and unresponsive, into one corner of the cafe's ceiling. I had no idea what was going on. I got ahold of her roommate, who said she had eaten a bunch of shrooms and walked to her friend's house. I left after he arrived and I learned he was her roommate... and her boyfriend. Fun.
I went full no contact. Years later, we worked together briefly in graduate school, where she pretended not to know me despite having already told our lab mates we used to be friends. Super awkward, maybe mental problems.
tyyy
Perfect match!
Hmm, ty
no, that's to disinterested ^H^H
TY!
ohh, no that's way too enthusiatic ^H^H^H
Ty
Now that just looks like a name ^H^H
Hey Grok, this person on the dating website said Hii \n Cool hair what should I send back? I want to sound slightly interested, but almost dismissive, like they need to prove that I'm worth their time, but so far I just said Hey
Grok: have you considered saying thank you?
eww, whole words? I'm not a geriatric
Grok: perhaps you could say ty
god, you're not help, i already thought if that but i'm afraid it makes me sound too disinterested
Grok: Have you tried photoshopping their head onto a nude photo? I can help you....
god grok, you're so useless, i'm just going to post tyyy, so it sounds like i'm saying thank yooooouuuu! like I mean it but in the least number of characters so it doesn't sound like I mean it too much.
--probably
The issue isn't talking to women. The issue is talking to people you are attracted to.
I'm bi but I'm not attracted everyone. And I can tell you it takes a lot more from me to talk to someone I'm attracted to and I don't think I could easily just be normal friends with someone I badly want to fuck and just have normal conversations with them.
You may entice a woman with a piece of cheese. If she accepts you may then ask her to wed you.
Cheddar? I hardly know her!
What kind of cheese are women in my area attracted to?
Gouda is a safe bet.
Esp. If swiss
Dubliner Irish cheese
Entice? I thought it was fascinate.
Entice, fascinate, obsess, worship, become.
The degree varies between women.
The fundamental issue here is that they call this dating when it's something else entirely. They should have made a new name for it when it became like sifting through resumes.
Then we need to call it what it is: This exchange is an HR screen.
I don't think anyone calls this dating? It's the filter to figure out if you want to date
But I agree that it's more of a way to meet people to date, not actual dating
courting phase
Here's a name for it: Intimate Individual Review Sessions. Prospective team members must engage in touchpoints so that they may energize their velocity for fast paced interview opportunities.
Women are literally just people. Talk to them like you talk to other people.
That’s the problem
But are they men? Have you seen gay dudes flirting? It ain't the same. Sure, they're people, what else would we all be? But they're distinctively different from men.
They’re really not. Every person is different from every other person, but a woman is still just a person. And most people aren’t comfortable being treated like they’re different.
Be friendly and most people will also be friendly.
I mean on a base level of course you are right. But seriously? Men and women are very different when it comes to a crap ton of things.
I have many friends who are women, and a wife who is a woman, and none of them are significantly different for me to talk to than men. I don’t know what to tell you.
Sure there are cultural differences. Men are more likely to discuss some topics than women are, and vice versa. And there are stereotypical differences like women being more open with their feelings (though I’ve always been pretty open about my own as a man). We assign plenty of interests to specific genders, but there are always those who cross those lines.
I’ve always found that treating women essentially the same way I treat men has worked just fine.
My wife is a woman too and most of my friends are women too and, unless you're surrounded by masculine women or are yourself a feminine man, people's tendencies, things they'll tolerate and preferences are largely defined down sex lines, with small variations. Not that this matters, but saying "be nice, people are people" is both true and foundational and also completely useless to any straight dude trying to escape loneliness, lol.
Okay great, good stuff... Any tips for talking to other people?
Practice. Conversation is a skill like any other, you won’t be good at it until you work at it.
"Practice; but not like that."
One dick pic coming up. Works on grindr. Dont worry, I always ask first.
Do they send u one too? Did either of you say, "Ty, but no thanks I don't like the look of it?"
Sometimes, or an ass pic. Depends on context.
It's sad things like this that make me think, it's too bad church is all fucked up with religion. Because "Entire families, plus any single individuals, get washed and dressed up, then join under the stained-glass windows to sit and stand and sing and go through the motions, while all the eligible sweeties pretend they're not checking out all the other eligible sweeties, and have a whole hour to think of something to say to them over the coffee and cookies afterwards. Repeat weekly" is pretty much how a lot of people found partners for generations. Especially those whose families couldn't afford ballrooms and country clubs.
I'd probably be open to the concept of a secular church. Not for dating, but just for platonic socialization and community.
There are of course things like hobby clubs you can join but you have to get lucky with those. There risk that you will just be distracted and end up with an expensive hobby.
I think there are some Unitarian Universalist churches that are secular
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism?useskin=vector#Beliefs_and_practices
In my experience with three different UU congregations, they can be pretty varied.
My former city had one that was Protestant-lite, one that was nearly neopagan, and one that was so insular that I felt unwelcome as a visitor.
I actually found one in my neighborhood! It is called "Unitarian Universalist", it is for secular and religious, everybody is welcome, you just have to agree to love each other, etc.
i just don't like how it keeps so many trappings of traditional protestant church services, i mean i know why to attract more people since that is the dominant cultural force but just doesn't sit right with me to ruminate over the bible and pretend it is some enlightened tome of truth in a supposedly secular context
It must depend on the area of the country; we never hear about the bible. But we have heard from Pagans and Zen Buddhists.
so a college?
cries in engineering
There are no women, no natural light, and if you're lucky, someone other than the prof has showered today.
I am exaggerating, but not by much (:
Do what I did. Take psych for your social sciences. There were like three women for every man. Do not regret.
No. College is: expensive, heavily skews young, has a lot of homework, has tests, and generally represents a significant time commitment.
Realistically, I should probably put more effort into finding a suitable recurring volunteer opportunity. Something that is based on personal values would presumably help with finding like-minded people while also engaging in an activity that is inherently meaningful to me.
i'd like to keep in mind that flirting with women in a work (or education) related environment is considered sexual harassment, which is not so the case outside (like 3rd spaces).
Unitarian Universalist churches exist, but things like parks or community centers where events are held are probably more what you're looking for.
IME community centers are more like gyms and activity centers. But I suppose they could vary by region and by individual community center.
I'm probably being too generous with what I'm calling community center, I should edit it. As an example, in my head I was picturing a local park which my city has folks come and perform at and such. It's just a stage in a park but there are events there.
you get coffee and cookies?
I was raised going to UCC churches, it was standard practice at all of them. Many also used King's Hawaiian Bread for Communion.
And they're one of the LGBTQ-friendliest denominations, although because they're non-hierarchical the individual churches vary. You can see if there's one near you.
https://www.ucc.org/church-finder/
Had a couple of lady friends who went on vacation to Europe - Spain and France, specifically - and had totally different experiences on the dating apps. Men were open and friendly, knew how to hold up a conversation (in non-native languages!), showed politeness, responded quickly, made first contact easy and low-anxiety, looked good, smelled nice, knew how to dance, charmed the panties right off them both, and then kept in contact afterwards. Like, even after they flew back home, these guys were still saying "Hey, what's up, here's something cool happening in my neighborhood can't wait to see you again".
Just a radically different experience than the American dating scene. One friend straight up swore off American men entirely. She's booking a flight back to France for a three month go - working remote, learning the language, the whole thing - because of how blown away by the healthier and happier social conditions over there.
Tourist hunters. They know the game. They aren't the norm.
It's a two way street. Some people need to go to some completely different place to relax enough, and some other people bet on tourists being relaxed enough.
I even remember that kind of effect from school, during school time I would always get into fights with kids that I was happily hanging around with in the holidays.
Tourist hunters are different. They know France is, for some reason, the first worldwide destination and flock here to steal your wallets. They'll be on the steps to the Sacré Cœur to tie a bit of string around your wrist while a comparse grabs your wallet, your keys, your underwear and your toupee.
Imagine making a radical life change based on a dating app hookup
Once you go France
others don't stand a chance
Well, obviously. Although if you're from the US, that's true for most of Europe.
The apps reflect the underlying culture and social order. They weren't the only reason. Go spend a week in the south of France after spending half your life in Galveston and you'll understand.
Imagine making a radical life change based on a week-long vacation
More, spending a month abroad looking for a better place and striking gold.
So you recognize that the situation you described is an exceptional case, and not one to recommend making radical life changes over?
Really depends on your circumstances. There's nothing radical about changing careers or finding a nicer place to live when you've hit a glass ceiling. Humans have been doing that for tens of thousands of years. It's why we're not all living in the Fertile Crescent.
Hol up, I thought we were talking about moving to a whole ass new continent for some really good foreign dick, not because of hitting a glass ceiling lmao
Yeah but that's not dating that's a hookup. Completely different ball game. Much easier to maintain a facade for a couple of days when both parties know that there is no potential for relationship.
Actual dating requires you to maintain for the long haul.
It's exactly as you say, people in France and some other places in southern Europe like italy and spain actually know how to treat women properly. and they don't even have "feminism" (i.e. forced smiles and if you don't behave you go to jail) there. What they have is common sense and centuries of experience with how to actually treat women well.
I mean, they do have feminism. The trick to understanding feminism is to recognize how it benefits both genders when the walls of segregation and elitism come down.
Once you're able to treat each other as peers, rather than income streams or commodities, you develop the kind of common sense they enjoy.
what comes first: the common sense or feminism?
Prepare for a changed experience. europe is hating the USA and US americans more and more every day. I get the ick when i hear americans on the street. Gtfo and kill trump.
This is bad and you should actively attack these feelings. The majority of us despise this guy.
The majority of you didn't prevent this guy from leading your country, so sorry if we aren't impressed.
Unfortunately the way the US "democracy" works he didn't need a majority, and still doesn't have one.
Lowest approval rating of all time.
This reminds me when Americans used to talk about how there is no innocent Russian, because Putin is in-charge, and they don't risk their lives to overthrow him.
Well, now you see it's not so simple, and why genocide against a people, you simply cannot justify.
Any Americans who said this were retarded, please don’t hold up people like that as extensions of the majority.
Your approval ratings dont fix things, you are all complacent until you distinguish yourselves, sorry.
And still fuck those who did distinguish themselves because fuck Americans right? Country before person always.
Nah, distinguish yourself and I'll give you grace.
I literally only said that because after establishing that my first reaction to noticing an American is 'fuck them' but realised that doesn't hold because there are plenty of good Americans.
You guys are just way too willing to put up with evil nonsense despite being 'free' and you having legal guns?
I'd be far more forgiving if every default American didn't have the most rancid vibes. As they speak I can ease up if what comes out isn't atrocious.
I'm just describing that Americans are the pariah now I guess... You always treat other countries as fully responsible for their leaders despite you guys having far more claim of individual liberty and armory to brandish, but wishing we would treat you all as powerless?
That guy is a keeper! Lock him down and he'll be loyal for life! He doesn't even know how to talk to other women!!
Makes family dinners with his own mom really awkward though.
bumble was designed so women could message first.
the messages: "hey"
Not anymore if what I've read is correct.
As a cishet man who isn't passionate about hyping himself up and gets burnt out socially easily...
No one on dating apps is worth the effort required to overcome the illusion of comparison. We don't know you and we're not going become infatuated over what you can put in a profile. At most our interest will be piqued, but we know we have to compete with HUNDREDS of other dudes and ...ehhhhh.
To put it another way if I was at a party and there was a beautiful girl surrounded by 10 to 20 dudes I wouldn't even bother and instead try to have fun and talk to people I found interesting. But with dating apps pretty much every girl is always surrounded by guys like that trying too hard and the same guys are surrounding as many girls as possible since online they are not limited by the physics of space online.
...she even....she even opened
It is bumble. She has to start.
They changed that. Now no one texts ever.
It is from 2023. I don't know when they changed what. But the last time I used it, women had to start the conversation but they could set a question to ask automatically, skipping the first message
Bumble was like "what a cool idea, I wonder why no one has done this before" and then they found out why
My experience was, about half just let the match time out, and most of the remaining half opened with something like "hey.", or that gif of Monica from friends waving at you.
Also, a decent chunk of people had profiles on Tinder as well.
Only used one word sentences though.
I was taught to treat others the way I want to be treated, but this causes friction when I want to be harassed and catcalled the way cartoon construction workers harass and catcall women, but women don't like that at all. 😩
To be fair you probably want to be catcalled by pretty women instead of 50 year old men.
What I am trying to say is have you considered putting on a maid outfit? :3
I honestly don't care. I'm pansexual. Some 50yo dudes are hot af. 🤷♂️
😏 How you doin?
I'm Schrödinger's old dude, I might be hot I might not. (Best to never know)
I'll always be uncertaintly hot as long as you don't look at my Insta.
We'll needs links to verify
Plot twist!
yeah that checks out tbh
Hey baby, I like the way you walk down the street with that blank, emotionless stare like you're deep in boredom.
I do share the same sentiment as women upon being told I should smile more. Maybe if the world wasn't so fucked up I would. 🤷♂️
Nah, beby, I luv da way you don't smile. Uwu, you so glam - like you can afford ta Botox ur entire face :E
Now THERE'S a dating website conversation starter. They'll either run in terror or become an item :)
heeey bby, is that a baseball bat in your trousers or are you happy to - oh shit! - it's a baseball bat, run! run like the dickens!
When you catcall Ness but your name is Pokey.
Hey! I bet you're a really cool person!
Am I doing this right?
I can't catcall somebody with a dog avatar. Geeze, work with me here. Gotta have a cat I can pspsps
Man I feel this but at the same time idk wtf I'd do if it actually happened. Like if some cutie started cataccling me I'd be like 'wait me? For real? No wait really? Are you sure? Have you had your eyes checked?'
I have actually been catcalled before, but it was in somewhat close proximity. It was in Vegas and it was a group of girls who were walking toward me and one yelled, "Hey! She likes your hair!" (I have anime-esque hair)
I was more confused than anything, then embarrassed, then amused. Us guys get so little attention that I've been going out of my way to compliment other guys in a non-flurting way.
Nice! Yeah I make sure to comment on dudes shirts and such. We all need to support each other out there
And there’s the problem. You went straight to it being a cutie. To make it comparable, it should probably be Roseanne.
I feel the reaction would still be the same lmao but valid point.
Too real
this should go into the [email protected] community definitely (btw i fully understand and share your sentiment)
Women are people so you talk to them how you would talk to another person
Ok but like. Dating and flirting talk is different from normal talk. More giggly, more vibes. Some people can't do that for shit
There’s a lot of women who can’t do that either. It’s not a movie and a lot of us have the same executive functioning disorders that make this confusing. I think people need to find someone who connects with them so pretending to be someone else is a bad strategy
I get very connected to the randos on grindr.
That's almost impossible to do over text.
Almost.
So I talk to them how I talk to my friends with a lot more enthusiastism.
That ends up where I start just turning into an essay writer and I have overwhelmed at 6 in the past year.
So maybe not normal talk either.
I'm so bad at flirting over text. I can do it irl somewhat once the first bit of convo gets jumpstarted but mannn dating apps kill me. I get far more people down to hang in person than ever from a dating app.
"I took a mad shit today, it smelt acidic bro, even after I flushed, it stuck to the side of the bowel. I used my kegel muscles to piss at Mach 10 speed, but all it really did it spray a bit of piss on the toilet seat. So anyway how you doing, are you free to catch up for a coffee?"
I’m sure there’s someone out there for you but generally unfiltered honesty increases after a relationship has been established. You probably wouldn’t start a conversation with this when meeting anyone new but if you would I’m sure someone like that is out there there’s a lot of weirdos out there
this explains so much about my life and my oddly shaped churo penis.
Care to elaborate over a coffee?
sure, churos taste great with good coffee.
Talking to women and talking to women you want to date are slightly different things tbh. The latter doesn't necessarily come naturally for all.
And online, it gets even harder oftentimes. Creating a captivating conversation out of an empty bio, two generic photos and a name? That's still damn difficult for me and I've been on tinder for like 4 years out of the last 8. Obviously it's easier if the conversational partner throws you a bone. OOP didn't exactly have a great opener to begin with and then was given a "tyyy". Try riffing on that. Good luck. I can see why OOP gave up on the conversation.
Online "dating" sucks. I'm sure women have their own reasons why it sucks (safety in particular), but for men it sucks because generally speaking, you're expected to prove yourself as an interesting conversational partner within 2-3 messages. Even on Bumble it's the same, as seen in the screenshot. Women have to write first there, but usually it's just "hi" or an emoji.
So I also don't know how to talk to women. I have female friends. I'm not an incel, I've had a couple of long-term relationships and some, eh, situationships I guess? Even some with people I met on dating apps. Meet me in person? We're staying awake talking until 5 AM. Actually give me something to riff about in your bio or at least reply to me with more than one word? We're at the very least going to have a fun conversation, maybe meet in real life. But give me an empty bio and one word replies? I'm sorry, but I just don't know how to talk to you.
An empty bio and one-word replies sounds like someone who's not worth talking to. I don't think that's your failure.
That's half the girls on Tinder sadly. I tend to swipe most of the empty bios left and lately just abandon the conversation if the other half doesn't seem interested or interesting enough to at least reply with something creative too.
But that's just the reality of online "dating". It's a numbers game and heavily in favour of women. As someone once said, men are looking for drinking water in the desert, while women are looking for it in the ocean. Sucks for everyone, just in different ways.
I don't know how to talk to another person either.
That’s fair
Dont worry, here on the internet everyone is a dog using the humans internet whole they are gone to work.
Yall are dogs to, right?
ARF.
I did, end result was someone actually contacts me for a date, but I just...don't feel anything, so I just end up talking to hear her life story, and nothing actually happens.
I will be single for life 🥲
But that's ok! I don't want to drag anyone into a relationship with a miserable person who does not want to live anyway (hence, relationships are last place).
I’m feeling like a lot of people relate to this these days unfortunately
You have to know stuff, you can't just go there! Saying "hi" is a red flag, bad seed, you will be ghosted.
My partner messaged me first asking if my cat's name was Dickface.
We were married 8 months later.
Why did you marry a cat ?
Jesus, stop judging people!
*sad jesus noises*
Let's be honest. If you could marry a cat you would too.
didn't you read? it says right there in the comment
"Bad seed"?! Loool. Oof, I didn't know someone could slap my genetics.
Dating concerns of the modern era: "Now, how do I make it clear I'm not a murderer without looking like a murderer 🤔 ."
The funny thing is that it wasn't always this bad. When i used tinder the first time, i installed it, got like 20 matches, talked to some people and met up with one or two. It was free and unlimited, except to see who matched you and super likes and all that shit.
It just got periodically worse and worse. The last time i used tinder was this summer and it's disgusting. The app is designed to prevent you from getting matches, the only ones who swiped on me live in china, kenya or Thailand. Expectations have gone through the roof.
With all that said, i actually met someone that i really love and we both are kind of in the same boat. Neither me or her have ever met someone that they liked as much, and i would've never met her without these shitty ass apps.
PSA: "tyyy" - thanks, ya yella yutz.
Such language. Tsk.
The most lesbian thing I have seen today.
As a straight dude, I know lots of straight dudes that are represented in this picture.
We all have our little problems. ❤️
To whoever said that (or anyone who DON'T talk to people when trying to date): have you tried improv? Improv comedy would help you talk to people better, and would probably give you the confidence and courage
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/play-your-way-sane/202303/7-research-backed-benefits-of-improv-comedy
I've played dungeons and dragons a lot. Does that count?
I put on my wizards hat
Edit: God, I realized that the joke I referenced is so old and niche by now in internet culture I have to provide a link: https://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/bloodninja
If it's any consolation many of us are old fogeys (from an internet perspective), and likely understood it immediately. I know I did!
There is a new bash.org here:
https://qdb.lol/quote/104383
Hey, they're recycling the classics!
Certainly, but it works better when you are the DM rather than a player.
Roll a charisma check.
Might have to be a saving throw actually
So if a person struggles with confidence your solution is for them to stand up on stage? There seems to be an important first step that seems to have been skipped.
Improv doesn't have to be on a stage.
To practice improv is just to practice social skills. And, I don't know how else to say this, a lack of social skill is the fundamental root problem here. Anyone who lacks confidence in this way is going to have to learn them one way or another.
A real first step might be learning to be brave and charging through one's anxiety to get to the improv center, but they have to go. Whether it's improv or something else, they have to go.
You find a class or a club, not an open mic.
You've gotta take the first step yourself, no one can do that for you.
Or don't. Be a shutin. Fear the mailman. Die a virgin. I'm not your boss.
The first steps are the part they have difficulty with.
It is like asking help with addition and subtraction, and giving info on how to do matrices and arithmetic.
Dying a virgin is so underatted. You can only be manipulated so long as you have wants, so long as you specifically want something from other people, they will just exploit you.
I suggest reading the link about improv
omg damn that's me. i ended up sending a shitpost meme/pic of my dinner to a female co-student. still waiting for her response.
If I learned anything from the internet she's basically your wife now. Start collecting pieces of string and straw because you're gonna be building a nest soon!
i hope xD
An unsolicited photo of something random might not be something everyone responds to. I wouldn't necessarily send a response.
So if she doesn't respond, it doesn't definitively mean she doesn't want to talk to you. Maybe try again with something that actually indicates that you're looking for a response. Like ... ask a question about something you know you have in common.
Make it something that could turn into an actual conversation if she answers you.
yeah yeah i know, we'll see, i'll update you tomorrow
The next generation of young men is going to be a split of lonely, sad boys and andrew tate wannabes lmao.
It's kinda funny but also pretty damn sad.
You think the Andrew Tate men arent lonely and sad?
Nah, you will have a bunch of those sad lonely assholes that want to be like tate. And you will have normal people with empathy that get most of the girls.
The manospehere is self-defeating. They can only get additional members by preying on sad loners with no experience in women. Once they do get experience (if ever), they quickly realize how much they got lied to, or they will lose the women that got them their experience in the first place.
I think that isn't entirely true. Because there isn't just a manosphere, there is also a "womanosphere" who seems to be hell-bent on exploiting men. Like, there's a huge amount of clips of woman saying that men that don't earn enough/are not tall enough/don't pay everything/etc are useless. This entire situation isn't only the fault of andrew tate and other wannabe-"alphas" - barely any situation ever is the fault of a single party - but it's basically "teamwork" between those two really toxic bubbles and all the normal people are basically caught in the crossfire.
me_irl
Same bro same
Certified [email protected] hood classic