Where do you draw the line regarding windows?
Those of you who still use windows for one reason or more, where do you draw the line about the shitty things microsoft is doing? By drawing the line I mean using some other operating system no matter how bothersome it might be.
Not judging or anything, i'm just curious where the general mindset is about it.
I use windows because the fire code mandates it, and cause having sunlight in rooms is nice. Also I can see the weather and when the mail arrives.
My dog's use Windows to spot their dreaded enemy, the squirrel.
We will never be able to repay them for this vigilance
Why anyone is OK with Microsoft's key logging of everything including passwords is beyond me.
I thought this was about recall but no, there is a second keylogger in Windows lol
Well that's not creepy at all...
Oh, don't worry your little head. Microsoft is taking very special care of all your passwords and nothing bad can happen.
But seriously, I would be shocked if Microsoft's password stores weren't already hacked. I think at some point Windows users are going to wake up to some very unpleasant news.
Thank you for mentioning that, wasn't aware it was doing that. Disabled it now.
You can find plenty more shit like this just taking a scroll through the settings app/menu. Anything mentioning "predictions", "suggestions", "send data to microsoft", "help us make your experience better", "automatic personilazation", "use your data to improve", "telemetry" and the like is data collection for Microsoft's sake with little to no direct impact on the function of the OS or other software.
So, it's easy to point fingers at a scary sounding sub-system and scream, but has anyone done any true analysis of what the feature actually does?
There's plenty of ways to check this shit. Just off the top of my head, checking the files it accesses using process explorer would be a start. Should be pretty obvious if one of them grows with keystrokes.
Those are some pretty damn big claims for "trust me bro".
It used to be that with shit like this you could actually find stuff like "Hey, I've analyzed network traffic from the PC, and can confirm that once an hour it's sending encrypted data to a server in Redmond that matches the size of the image thumbnails generated by Explorer in the last hour. If Explorer hasn't generated thumbnails in that time, no data is sent." with receipts when someone claimed that MS was collecting everyone's image thumbnails.
Now it's just Microsoft bad! Trust me bro!
Regardless of validity though, it concerns me that people use their computers without taking 30 minutes to go through the settings and shut off shit they don't want.
Whether the implementation of this is a true keylogger or not, I get no benefit out of Microsoft analyzing my typing, and I'm not using any sort of touch screen or stylus so handwriting analysis is a waste too.
I disabled it within the first hour post-install.
There's this search engine called Google and it magically returns lists of technical articles from sources who have done exactly that.
Microsoft's keylogging started with a Windows 7 update and has been well documented for over a decade, but I'm sure you can find something more to your liking from a Youtube paid shill who will tell you how great Microsoft is.
Cool it with the attitude. If it's so easy to find this evidence, you could have posted links yourself to it instead of whatever the hell you think this is. Public shaming?
There's plenty of easily proven reasons to hate Microsoft without pulling stuff out of our collective asses. Like the collection of image thumbnails I already mentioned, which as I said was confirmed (as much as analyzing SSL encrypted web traffic can be without breaking the encryption) by traffic analysis.
I have a decade of experience doing tech work in Windows environments. More than half of that time now in systems administration and infrastructure "engineering". I'm better versed in Microsoft's bullshit than the average bear, and I'm definitely not trying to argue they're great.
Proof of this sort of thing can make a career in infosec, so I don't have any issues believing that people have been digging deep for any evidence of this. If direct evidence is out there, you're right that it shouldn't be hard to find.
::: spoiler Did my research, I'm not finding the hard evidence. That said, all I'm finding are unsourced insistences that it exists, and that those particular settings to disable it. I've done writeups before on Wi-fi security citing white papers and thesis research. Usually I have no issues finding the hard evidence, even the crazy cryptographic math fomulae behind certain cryptography related security issues.
For this though? From what I can find, there's no direct evidence this is a keylogger in the traditional "stealing your data" sense. There's no evidence of the typing data being stored on disk or transmitted back to "home base".
I'm also finding plenty of conversations in information security communities online (and a few news articles) saying what I've already said here. It seems to be clickbait headlines that have turned into an urban myth of sorts.
What I've found in regards to it not being a keylogger (in so far as you can attempt to prove a negative):
The best evidence in favor of the keylogger are discussions about keylogging in the Windows 10 Preview builds, which Microsoft was explicitly open and direct about. But even this is somewhat suspect, and there's no evidence even close to what was found in the preview builds that this is occurring in the prod releases.
There's also a mountain of articles like this one that again, point to the written privacy policy and settings like they're definitive evidence, but again I'm finding no WireShark analysis, no testing through multiple VMs or a control install and an install with tons of keyboard input, no actual testing and results, no snippets of code from any of the source code leaks in the last decade. No hard proof. :::
So now I've danced to your tune. I've "done my research".
If this is so damn obvious, please for the love of all that is holy just link me the damn receipts. I promise I can handle whatever hacker writeups, white-papers, etc that you could throw at me. I want to see them. Please don't blueball me.
I posted about a long known Microsoft practice with a link to one of dozens of 3rd party articles about that practice. You objected to the very idea Microsoft would do something like this, and without doing the slightest bit of research (or apparently even clicking the link) responded, "Now it’s just Microsoft bad! Trust me bro!"
You fucking "cool it with the attitude."
BTW - I'd have no problem providing links for something difficult to research, but this isn't much more difficult than asking Google the time. You are evidentially capable of typing, so "for the love of all that is holy" open a new tab and ask Google yourself.
I read your link, and you need to retake basic literacy if you believe that satisfies any sort of proof. All it says is "Microsoft totally has a keylogger, this setting disables it." It does not show any evidence of the claim. It does not link to evidence of that claim.
No one's arguing that they aren't gathering typing data. I'm arguing that it isn't a full-on keylogger siphoning passwords.
Please stop fighting a strawman. I've not said anything good about Microsoft here. I'll insist again that I'm more familiar with their rot than most, given my career.
I did Google, with multiple search terms. Check my last post again. There's a spoiler with plenty under it. It's the line in a section all it's own that says "Did my research, I'm not finding the hard evidence." Tap to expand the multiple paragraphs not only summarizing my findings but also linking specific examples. If you have some specific issue with what I found, let's hear it.
I'll state it again and clearly: Everyone should turn off the feature. But hundreds of sites copy pasting the same article, the headline claiming it's a keylogger, the same instructions to disable predictive text data collection, and nothing else is not evidence. It's copy paste tech support slop.
If sites claiming things about how Windows worked were reliable, or repetition meant reality, "sfc /scannow" wouldn't be a meme in the sysadmin world. 90% of the time it doesn't help. It's a specific tool for fixing issues caused by corruption to the OS files, not the cure all it's touted to be by many sources.
So show me some network traffic analysis. Show me a whitepaper. Show me a security reseacher's write up. Show me process explorer screenshots showing the file lock for the file where the data is stored. Show me someone testing two default Windows installs in VMs, one with keystrokes entered and one without, and the clear difference in network traffic, file activity, anything.
Anything more than simply saying "trust me bro".
Because headlines can't be wrong right? The CrowdStrike outage was totally an issue with Microsoft Update, as originally reported far and wide, and not an issue with an update to CrowdStrike software running at kernel level that mirrored the same issue they caused in Linux deployments a few months earlier. People still don't get that wrong, not at all.
Look. The ball's in your court. Again, if it's so easy, prove it. Stop wasting effort trying to rub my nose in it like I'm a bad dog, and just prove I'm wrong.
My research doesn't show what you insist is so evident it doesn't need to be sourced. If it's as you say, spoonfeed me. Prove it. It'll be faster, and I'll gladly edit all my previous comments here to say whatever disparaging thing about myself you desire.
Crow is delicious and I look forward to eating it.
Come. On.
Edit: I'm not normally the kind of person to look up who up/downvoted me, but I spent the better part of an hour trying to find evidence in support of this guy's claim. Apparently it's easier to downvote than prove me wrong in such a simple way that they claimed I couldn't have done a google search or I would have found it.
So let's fucking go. I'll extend this "bet" to anyone.
Show me evidence that Microsoft is capturing all (or most) keystrokes, specifically including passwords entered across multiple programs, through the setting for predicitve text and handwriting analysis which can be switched off through the settings menu, it is happening on live/prod/general use releases of Windows, not preview builds, and it does not rely on unlikely edge cases like a user somehow accidentally running Calculator with a debugger attached to the process and then typing passwords into Calculator.
Note: Being able to hijack the service and exploit speculative execution shit like spectre to access other areas in memory doesn't count. This has to be inteded behavior.
If you can prove that for Windows 7, 10, or 11, I will do just about anything you want as a punishment. Want me to speedrun getting banned across the fediverse? Want me to make a video smearing peanut butter on my junk while singing your praises?
No doxxing myself, no physical harm, permanent body modifications, nothing that would get the cops called, make me ill, or jeapordize my job. Monetary cost can't be over $20. Thinking more like I'd write that you were right on my ass, make it my profile picture here, and edit every comment I made on here (over 4000 at time of writing) to add praises for you and to point to my shame. That sort of thing.
If you can get the instance admins in on it, I'd fully accept old 4chan rules of deliver or suffer permaban.
Just to cover my ass for Microsoft doing something dumb as hell with Recall, that doesn’t count (see specifications about it having to be connected to this predictive text/handwriting thing), and this offer is only valid for the year of 2026.
The line is between my home and the office. Linux at home for nearly twenty years and windows at work because so few know better.
I only use Windows at work because that is what they have me on my work laptop and I haven't replaced it. I just use Linux in a VM instead. That way I don't need to explain a thing to internal IT, but just work within the VM.
My work is maintaining a distributed windows network. Domain controllers VM's and over a hundred workstations in several locations.
Just be aware that using a VM without telling IT can jeopardize your company's IT insurance in case of an attack and can get you fired for cause.
Sounds like something they don't pay me enough to care about
OK but if getting fired is also something they don't pay you enough to care about, then you might as well stay home.
It's pretty unlikely though
Yep. IT gives everyone Windows, and I don’t have an important reason they would grant me an exception. So Linux stays at home
IT would give you whatever you wanted. Management insists on windows because reasons. All of my domain controllers and most of my VM's run on KVM/QEMU. All of our digital signs run raspberry pi's. Simple truth is that most shops run windows due to long standing tradition. One they will not question.
Eh, I’m sure it’s some combination of legal’s opinion on risk, purchasing’s contract with Microsoft, and IT’s desire to stop end users from breaking things. At the end of the day, it doesn’t bother me too much
I am IT where I work. It has nothing to do with legal where I work. It just ingrained habit and opinion. I have several linux machines running there now and no one has noticed expect one lady who commented 'it never messes up anymore' in reference to a kiosk they use to look up items. Over the last five years I have improved things there until the only problems I have are windows problems. Killing the microsoft store was a big move forward. Now no local admin actually keeps people from installing programs on their own.
I drew the line when my Windows box told me I couldn’t do something even with admin. Kid, you work for ME, not the other way around.
Always preferred Linux over Windows, but I had issues with games on it. I just decided that I wouldn’t play any games that didn’t work. That was a couple of years ago now, and things have only improved since.
My fiance, who is not a technical person, even decided she wanted her new PC to run Linux unprompted, which is a hell of a win for Linux and for me in not having to support a Windows box in the house.
Every tool for it's job.
I have 4 windows boxes 5 linux boxes and 3 macs in the house.
I will not force the children off Roblox I will not buy the children macs. I will not put forth monumental effort for a substandard experience just to get rid of windows.
If roblox gives in to linux with a native app or wine, (or they age out of roblox) I'll give it a test run with the kids assuming they don't have another game that requires the same.
I cannot eradicate the last Windows box for work because there are closed things I must occasionally deal with. That said it's use is around once a week.
I will eventually eradicate my security camera VM, but I need a lot of time to work on frigate.
Roblox is banned in our house. Not due to o/s concerns, but child grooming concerns. Snapchat, also banned.
There's no chat for underaged kids anymore, so it's less of a concern.
Frigate's setup is a bit fussy at first but is well worth the time and effort. I've been running 2 instances for two years and can count the number of false positives on one hand.
So what I have going on is Blue-Iris. I have a load of pixel barriers and notifications wrapped around times. If someone opens the community mailbox not between 2 and 4 pm on week days or 11am on Saturday, it sends me a webhook ntfy with the image and an emergency alarm (mail thefts been happening). I have it doing ALPR on two streets and then I have alarms for humans in the driveway and humans on the back porch at specific hours with more webhook ntfy. I dedupe alarms and use Blue-Iris for scrubbing and storage.
My cameras are super good at AI person detection and provide it through ONVIF so I don't know that I'll get a lot more out of it, but getting rid of the Windows laptop running the job would be nice.
I believe Frigate can do all that, but you're looking a huge investment of time to duplicate your Blue-Iris configuration. If it were me I'd be tempted to put up with Windows until something forced a change.
I'll get to it eventually before it breaks :) Of all the windows needs, that's the lowest hanging fruit.
Home Assistant already draws feeds from the cameras in tandem, so the alerts themselves could be replaced easily, but getting the offending image and the pixel barriers would require Frigate. I'll probably build it up in a container and pass through a USB Coral
You may not even need the Coral. I moved from a old system with an ancient CPU and usb Coral to a small laptop with a Intel N200 processor. With Frigate running in Docker the N200's object detection is just as fast as the Coral with almost no impact on CPU utilization.
If I could do it fast enough, the windows laptop has a decent mobile gpu
But I kinda want to do it in a VM, and i'd rather pass through the coral than suck up the cpu cycles on the box from the other vm's
Seems like there's work around for Roblox on Arch but it uses closed source tech. Still maybe an improvement over Windows if you haven't given it a try.
https://www.protondb.com/app/2181790
Thanks for looking it up, I've already been there, it's Android emulation and it doesn't perform well enough for what they're doing. One is doing split timing stuff, and the other is doing perverse things to build a boat that won't even run under native Android.
Back when the straight wine client was allowed, it was good enough I could have switched, but I walk have been back where I am now.
I'm a bit concerned that even if I did convince them to use an emulator, Roblox would get a case of the ass and block it as they did for Linux.
As disappointed as I am that they're stuck in Windows, I'd be irrationally angry having to reinstall Windows.
Ah that's unfortunate. Hopefully they can fix their rectal cranial inversion and just allow people to play the game.
You can run Roblox on Linux with “Sober”.
It's the android emulation client
It'll only work until they decide to make it not work. When it stops working I'll have to reinstall windows which would be worse.
It does not preform well and the controls are different. For really big builds in build a boat and obstacle courses, it underperforms enough to make them upset.
Windows 10 stops working for my purposes (gaming, browsing internet, office docs, some other windows exclusive programs).
I can give my historical experience. Early 2025, I saw horrific articles on Copilot and decided to switch early. I had a bad distro hopping experience. First tried Linux Mint, might have been a slightly old install, but even my wifi didn’t work. Tried a later install, and it was much better, but game performance wasn’t great. Hitman WOA didn’t even load levels. Helldivers 2 had an annoying white border (I eventually fixed this a year later using an odd hack)
I then tried Bazzite. I didn’t quite like the layout, but it functioned. I had a hard time installing apps; it tried to simplify this with various virtualization/containerized solutions, but it meant so many tutorials for basic native-Linux apps didn’t work.
When W10 EOL came around, I tried another distro well touted: CachyOS. It was very smooth. I learned it’s Arch, same as the Steam Deck, and does have some “technical complexities” which I felt I wanted to avoid, but I guess in the end it’s been nothing I’m not a little used to from my work as a programmer. It mostly uses okay UIs for system settings, and some programs require you to use another package installer rather than their default “Octopi”. Some of my early issues came from installing Flatpaks rather than Arch User Repository items.
Games have been fantastic. Rarely when something uses video I need ProtonGE, which is an easy toggle; I should probably just make it default. Helldivers 2 and Division 2 seem to run better than on Windows.
The biggest decider has been: Changing to Linux was NOT annoyance free. There was transition, there was fiddly configuration, and I replaced some apps I use. A key thing is, Windows was quickly moving away from being annoyance free - stuffing Copilot and OneDrive ads into EVERYTHING. So, even accepting a few Linux struggles ended up being an overall lesser frustration.
At first I expected cachy to be just arch with calamares and kde but when I checked they even have their own kernel version. Very sophisticated.
Unfortunately with the way you asked, and especially with asking on Lemmy, you'll get a lot of tech saavy people, and FOSS enthusiasts. You'll also get a handful of people here who can't help but talk down to anyone who dares to say that Windows isn't just the fucking worst.
I'm primarily Windows, with an Ubuntu VM for working with obscure FOSS utilities (like I had to use someone's college project to recover data off a USB HDD where the enclosure broke, and it turned out the manufacturer used whole disk encryption so you couldn't just shuck it and go, but it was thankfully trivial with the key stored in a specific sector) and to work with github projects that only provide build instructions for Linux.
I run a personally customized and debloated install of Windows 10 Pro on my desktop, and Windows 10 Ameliorated (someone else's debloat setup I cribbed a decent amount from) on a laptop that is mostly used as a remote endpoint for the desktop through sunlight/moonlight (whatever the open source version of nVidia streaming is). The debloating took maybe 4 hours (6 if you include the time to figure out how to stream updates and drivers into the install media) and I've had no issues with any of the shit people complain about. I'm in control of my own updates (although you can't delay them indefinitely, you can push them back multiple weeks and prevent auto-restarts), no onedrive, stripped out telemetry shit and blocked through host file and DNS in case any was missed or added later. No updates have reset any settings I've set, despite the common insistence that everyone says they do.
But I also have almost a decade in supporting Windows, from intro IT help desk to many years as a sysadmin and IT infrastructure "engineer". I know what levers Microsoft has built for businesses to use to kill the bullshit, anf I cry at just how ridiculously bad a shit ton of Windows advice online is.
As far as Linux goes, I'm no stranger to it, and have been poking around with it since Knoppix was one of the only options (if not the only) for live-boot. I'm the go to guy on my team for the few Linux based appliances we run that don't belong to the network team. I want it to be a competitive alternative for corporatized software.
But I bounced off it in the mid-late 00's as I got tired of how much tinkering it took. By the time I was interested in checking it out again, I was working in IT, and nothing drains you of energy to tinker with computers at home like doing it eight hours a day for work. I wanted my stuff at home to just work, to the point that I even was mostly gaming on console.
I'm out of my burnout now, built a new desktop when I got my sysadmin/infra position, and built up a homelab of VMs to try (and fail to) speedrun studying for the MCSE before MS stopped offering it, since I work in a primarily Windows environment.
Whenever I finally get some free time, I plan to sit down and document customizing Win11 to not suck for the sake of all the people online that insist it simply isn't possible at all... and to set aside a dedicated drive to try out some more modern Linux distros again.
But I'll be honest, most Linux troubleshooting stuff still seems to be pretty finicky and still a tradeoff compared to the amount of stuff that "just works" on Windows (nVidia GPUs, HDR, VRR for a few examples). Definitely far better than it used to be, but still not to the point where the OS just gets out of your way. Windows still seems to be able to get to that point more easily.
I hope to proven wrong in my opinions about the current state of things.
The AI nonsense would need to personally disrupt my user experience on a daily basis.
I've already made up my mind about switching due to the AI nonsense that has already happened, but I've been putting off actually doing anything about it.
I drew the line at "Ads in the start menu," and fully switched when a game that I've played on and off for ~15 years started working on Linux. I've been using Linux for most of my life, but I uninstalled Windows for the last time about 4 years ago
I hate Windows more than anything or anyone in this world. Pretty sure my blood pressure is up a little just thinking about dealing with that OS.
Last time I used Windoze was to create a live usb to install Linux.
My red line is when the user experience becomes worse for me on Windows than on Linux. Not saying that Linux is bad, it's definitely not, but it seems to use a completely different paradigm from Windows which is much less aligned with what I want out of an OS than Windows is. So fundamentally my user experience on Windows is better, the enshittification is just adding trade offs until they eventually outweight having to go with a paradigm I don't agree with. And that point hasn't been reached yet. Though we're definitely getting close.
I wish there was an actual alternative that was just an opensource Windows without enshittification. I'd switch to that immediately if it existed. But with Linux, Windows will have to do some more enshittifying to get me there.
At work I'm paid for it. The software is very much specialised and while probably possible to run under Linux it's just too much of a headache.
I did install Linux on our SVN server though.
I drew the line fifty years ago, with Bill Gates’ Open Letter to Hobbyists.
I have a PC running Windows 11 Professional that I use exclusively for gaming. It works fine for that and it doesn't annoy me with OneDrive or Copilot etc.
I'm open to switching to Linux on that machine if Windows starts to annoy me, but as it stands Windows runs all my games without issues and I can't be arsed messing with things that aren't broken.
I wouldn't dream of running Windows on a computer used for anything other than gaming though. Currently I use a Mac as a daily driver, but I've also used Linux in the past. The main reason for using macOS is that I spend too much time messing with computers at work to want to do it in my free time too. The Apple ecosystem makes it easy to have everything integrated without much effort. I'm aware it's probably an unpopular opinion around here.
I’d estimate about a month or two adjustment period of being involved in computer focus depending on what you need to setup.
It can shorten down to weeks if it’s just a basic setup.
After that you’re just booting up and using just like you would with windows or Mac.
Just occasionally gotta open a shell and type dnf update && upgrade to run an update. That’s about the extent of it if you’re going super basic.
Any of these things comes to mind:
If it does not work on linux, I don't buy it. I'm sick of Microsoft. They feel like abusers.
But all of these things are already happening. Why are you still a Windows user if these are your lines in the sand? (Did you mis-read the assignment?)
I use windows where I'm forced to. Read work. The red line has already been crossed.
I stopped using Windows on my own machines many years ago. It was probably about the time when the games I was playing ran well enough, so dual booting was just taking up space I could use.
It's tied to my job, so I'll stop using Windows when I stop working there.
I have no more excuses, the line has already been crossed. I was getting ready to move over to Linux last year, but this is the real year. I had to move houses and it cost a bit more energy then expected. I now expect to give my final good-byes to proprietary PC operating systems this feb/march.
I use a streamdeck combined with soundpad software as a soundboard on W10/11, and that functionality is not 1-1 on Linux. Whatevs. I'll have to do without some options I had on windows. I'll get there.
Microsoft drew the line. They wanted me to buy a new computer for their new OS. Not happening.
As a mechanical engineer, I have bad news for y’all…
I haven’t made the switch off of Windows, but I have started dabbling in Linux. I am ok with tech, better than the average person, but I don’t know anything about programming or coding or any of it. I have a Raspberry Pi, some other electronic stuff, and a book that is project based teaching of python. I’ve spent the last month or so reading up on self hosting, Linux, and other open source stuff.
My biggest hesitation is World of Warcraft. It’s the only game I play, it’s the only game I’ve ever really played, and I don’t want to lose access to that. I have started looking into how wow is run on Linux. But I’m not ready to fully switch yet.
You can play WoW on Linux, though there may be a few extra hoops to jump through when installing the BattleNet client. Hell, there was even a test case where someone got it running on their SteamDeck as a proof of concept.
It runs in Wine or Lutris, which acts as a compatibility layer. The compatibility layer doesn’t emulate Windows directly. It just translates the Windows-specific stuff into something that Linux can use, and vice-versa. That’s why lots of games can actually run better on Linux, because you’re running a Windows native program without fully emulating Windows. So you don’t have all of the Windows bloat that tends to bog down gaming PCs.
I just can’t get my steam to run with lutris.
Oh I know, I’ve been looking into it recently. I remember days when gaming was the sole reason for not switching to Linux, but I’m also aware that it’s improved a lot since then.
I’m sure I can get it working, but I don’t feel comfortable switching completely until I’ve played with Linux a bit, which is exactly what I’ve started doing. I’ve started backing up documents and files onto separate hard drives so I can prepare to switch, I’m just not quite ready yet.
I've played it on Linux by installing Battle.net through Lutris. There are guides specifically about how to do it.
Yeah, I’ve started reading the guides on how to install it. Wow is the one thing that has really given me pause, the only thing really. But Windows is getting so frustrating that I am actually making myself comfortable with Linux so I can switch.
Do you have any guides specific you would recommend?
I did it a while ago, so not sure if recommendations have changed, but I used this and this. (The docs on Lutris' Github.)
THANK YOU! I will check them out.
I have been a Windows user since I started using computers in the 90s and wow has been my biggest hesitation. But with all the stuff Microsoft is doing with AI, ads, and data, it’s the first time I’ve considered and started actively looking into switching to Linux. There are so many instructions and things I don’t understand, but it’s nice to have something recommended by someone who used it. So again, thank you!!!!
I played Dragonflight just fine. I hope you can get it working.
Thanks. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to get it working, so I reinstalled Windows. It kept freezing at install then when trying to log in. But I’m going to try again when I have some time off.
When they forced me to go to Windows 11, even though my computer, technically could’ve ran windows 11, it was just missing a certain component on the motherboard so wouldn’t install. I told them to piss off, and I switched over to Linux. (Mint Linux)
A few years ago, and Mint is great. I'll never look back.
I may end up running windows in a VM so I can back up my NAS to BackBlaze for cheap.
I dumped windows on my desktop about 18 months ago because there was no way I was going to use windows 11. My stepson has been using ChimeraOS for about 2 years without issue. And my server was switched to FreeNAS (now TrueNAS) in 2015.
My red line is easy. No windows on my computers. That rule stands since before my first kid was born, and she is by now finishing university...
Windows 11 was my line. I wasn't going to use an os to advertise at me, I spend too much time blocking ads already. Linux Mint has been a clear upgrade, it was more than time to switch.
When I can reliably get Game Pass to run on Linux, or if Game Pass becomes not worth it.
Hmm, i might have written my question slightly wrong, since i wanted to know what would the the proverbial last straw microsoft does to make someone switch away from windows, while they currently dont plan on switching 😅
But these are good answers too.
I dualboot. I run windows whenever I want to use a certain software that is not supported on linux. Other than that, my daily routine and 99% of the games I play/wish to play run on Linux.
Now my main SSD runs Window11 and external one runs Bazzite. Once I finish ripping DVDs/Blurays I got from a friend, I will try to switch OS'es places.
I drew the line at Windows 10. It was bad enough. 11 was a bridge too far. I basically quit 4 months ago and wiped my last Windows machine today. I just made a post about it!
For anyone on the fence, do it!
10 was great actually. If you went from 10 to 11 like I had to for work, you know it day one. 11 just sucks donkey dick hard.
I probably wouldn't have a giant picture window in front of the toilet.
I was building myself a new computer from scratch and I had a friend whose laptop I would borrow on occasion that had win 11 on it.
Knowing how bad win11 was and knowing I'd have to pay yet another $100+ to be graced with the garbage on my system, I decided to partition an old laptop and play around on mint for a minute. The rest, they say, is history.
I've drawn the line when my files were eaten by their cloud, and also because fuck monopolies and yadwleeyaddeeyada.
Drawn the line but haven't stepped over: I have one laptop and can't really afford a new one. What if I brick it installing Linux? I really really really really want to, haven't dared yet.
you cant brick computer just by installing operating system. That happens if bios breaks but mostly there is no reason to mess with that.
The main thing I think is a valid fear is losing things necessary to reinstall Windows in case of emergency.
With 11, they tie it to MS account which makes a reinstall easier. Some devices, I think it’s tied to the hardware though? That’s actually something I’d like to learn more about so people doing Linux tryouts have a safety net.
Sooo.. you say I should. What if I'm not entirely tech illiterate but enough and too confident that I fuck up the BIOS inadvertently?
I'm gonna do it.. I'm gonna install Mint tomorrow.
Thank you for giving me the push
You always have the option to run Linux from a flash drive and see if you like it, disregarding slowness.
make a bootable linux image on a USB. boot off it to gain confidence
and/or get another drive and install onto that. swap back if you hate it
Search
[your laptop model] linuxand see what other people have experienced. IME it's almost always painless unless you just happen to have a proprietary wifi chip or something that devs are still reverse engineering.Now, you can just buy premade. Ubuntu and Pop!, mostly. With that, the hardware will be compatible out of the box. Mainstreaming capacity is here.
That's very very unlikely to happen.
What might happen is you can't run some version of Linux because of some bios setting and you're left with no working OS on the machine (Even when it does boot fine from the USB, the installed one may not boot because of secureboot, legacy boot mode, or something else).
So when you finally do decide to take the leap, keep a windows ISO burnt into a USB around.
when you cant opt out of any/all ai bullshit
Already drawn. Recently switched to linux on my work laptop. And I work with my supporting M365.
If I am forced to use Windows 11, then I will begrudgingly do so (my workplace has a PC with Windows 11 installed and it's so manky). The only other place where I tolerate it is on my Xbox Series S (which might be replaced completely with a Steam Machine). The only reason why I tolerate it on my Xbox is because installing a distro would be difficult and not have any significant payoff as most distros are meant for full on PCs. With Microsoft growing to become the shittiest they can become, I am beginning to not be able to stomach the notion of even having a Microsoft account. I will deadass throw away hundreds of dollars of investment in Xbox if it means being free of Microsoft in my daily life.
Otherwise, I use Linux, have it installed on every computer that I can, also make use of Android and Open Source tools when needed in order to avoid any of their products whenever possible. I am currently transitioning as many accounts out of Outlook as possible. For the time when I choose the nuclear option.
I recently did the unthinkable. I sold my Xbox Series X and let the existing GamePass Ultimate multi year subscription just go to waste.
Got a Playstation 5 Pro and I’m happy with gaming again. Feels good and exciting to pick up a controller these days.
I'm glad your happy with this move.
Personally, I despite Sony as well, they aren't a great company (I lump them in with Microsoft) because of the corpo bullshit they've tried to pull but angry gamers made them back down. Their insecure PSN and constant breeches+down time that I was reading about made me real nervous to even consider them as well. You had to make a change and this was your choice because there are so few console makers to choose from.
I agree about companies being bad actors. Sony, just like Microsoft, has done shit that was anti-consumer in the past.
However, outside of Nazi support, I can’t keep boycotting every damned company. I simply support what I think is good behavior.
In Sony’s case, they’ve targeted me as a gamer and Microsoft has targeted me as a perpetual cash machine with diminishing returns. It’s a win/win for me.
I have no brand loyalty and will go where my wants are met. In Sony’s case, I finally got what was promised — and never delivered — at the start of this console generation: 60+ FPS gameplay at 4K with Ray Tracing. The Playstation 5 Pro is still overpriced but it was so worth it to me. I miss functions like Quick Resume but not as much as I thought I would.
NOTE: I didn’t use AI for my response. I’ve been using the em-dash before Google existed and I ain’t quitting.
To me, if Sony has tried in recent memory, they'll do it again. They already have an aggressive walled garden approach that is meant to trap users (much like Apple). I can't realistically support that kind of behavior, until they make the majority of their games multi-platform (like Microsoft has) and PSN absolutely not necessary on other platforms with better online integration and authentication support...They can kick rocks.
While Sony did fulfill promises of hardware capabilities for console, it comes with a spoonful of poison.
I'm also not very brand loyal, so I will flit between competitors to see what's good (if they don't have shitty practices). Valve, while flawed in some respects has kept me in their ecosystem the longest. With the support for Linux and making gaming a better experience on my preferred OS...I do use them the most for my gaming needs these days. Which is why I will be buying a Steam Machine, as my needs are met on their platform.
Quick Resume is nice, but, I often never utilized it because I just shut down a game instead of resuming from where I was. It had some quirks, but it is fairly solid.
"NOTE: I didn’t use AI for my response. I’ve been using the em-dash before Google existed and I ain’t quitting." Eh? I don't think I ever implied you were a clanker lover and used one to make a response. The other trademarks of generated responses aren't present in your reply to me. I suppose you were trying to ward off other users in this case...
Lmao. The AI note was to head off the silly commenter that was sure to show up and make the accusation. It was not really directed at you.
As for what we want from our gaming company’s products, I think we differ and that’s ok. I am enjoying the PlayStation 5 exclusives and I think I want it to stay that way. I at least want games that are developed with Sony’s/Microsoft’s consoles in mind before worrying about porting for others’ enjoyment.
To be clear, I don’t want to have some weird fanboy bragging rights; I just want games to push a system to its max before worrying about making it work on others’. In fact, I think that’s what’s holding back the Series consoles. My opinion of the Xbox Series S is in the gutter.
To be as abrasive as possible, that system is a scourge of console gaming evolution and is a well-marketed piece of junk. Games notoriously get delayed to accommodate that horrid thing not being able to keep up with what I consider basic requirements in console gaming.
In fairness and to be as least abrasive as possible, I absolutely love the Xbox Series X. I think it did everything right except keeping the baseline promise of 4K/60 with Ray Tracing. However, that’s also a problem the base PlayStation 5 faces so it’s not that big a deal when comparing.
I’m not a PC gamer and I don’t want unnecessary complications with my down time so I stick to console. More power to all my friends that cross-platform game with me but holy shit I cannot even think of having to deal with the random issues that plague them. If my console has a rare hiccup (I think my last time was some 5 years ago) I simply reboot it and I’m back to my game in a minute or so. Maybe the rumored next-gen Microsoft machine that embraces steam will make me a convert but I don’t see how unless they aggressively address the convenience factor(s) I feel good back PC gaming.
That last point is probably why I prefer Apple over android or other competing OS/platforms. I just want the thing to work as advertised and I will push its limits as far as I’m allowed. Where others see it as a negative I see only positive things. I want it smooth and I want it to work without seeing the gears behind the shiny paint working overtime to make the magic happen. When it fails to meet my expectations I’ll move on.
Tech should always work for me instead of the other way around. That’s my personal approach to it all and it’s kept me happy so far.
This got long. I’m sorry.
"Lmao. The AI note was to head off the silly commenter that was sure to show up and make the accusation. It was not really directed at you." My guess was correct then, so this is fine!
While we do differ on our gaming wants and needs, I feel this is fine as well. As not everyone is uniform in what they want and what they need from a gaming platform.
Personally, I appreciate the ease of consoles, except when it comes to troubleshooting because I can't change how a game behaves with launch commands or other toggles like on PC. There are times when PC is riddled with issues, don't get me wrong, but I often can solve them within a matter of perhaps an hour or a few at worst. While I do expect to get a product that just works and doesn't demand much of my time to make it work; I do appreciate the ability to tinker and figure out how to make something work. Naturally, this is the major difference between us, that is quite alright! The Steam Machine is going to be a marriage of both console and PC worlds because it can be used in either context and just work...Given it has that massive library of games at the ready. Oof, I am so keen about this thing...
While I do love my Series S because it's a little guy that can perform pretty well...I think Microsoft's near perfect parity demand between the Series S and Series X was an unhinged ask. Microsoft's Xbox division deliberately underpowered the Series S, in order to sell it at a price that many could afford. I feel like they should've released a console that was more mid-high range, with an optimized as fuck slim version of Windows for Xbox. One that would have enough resources and power to run games with a bit of visual glam and smooth performance, however, Microsoft executives were too busy huffing their own farts to consider this and they fucked their console line instead. As they tend to do, fumble the ball and bag in numerous instances, when making literally any other decision would've won them a bit of success. I will say that Sony made killer moves with their consoles, earning new customers+keeping the existing ones because of Xbox Division's sanctioned blunder.
I think Apple mostly gets the "it will just work" down; however, because they control the software and hardware...It gets a bit scary in my opinion. As major bugs will get overlooked or ignored despite getting a lot of feedback from security types. Up until last year, Apple had a terrifying vulnerability that if malicious actors would've exploited, could've compromised a ton of phones for just some medium effort leveraging. Through Apple's podcast app and how it interfaced with the web, I cannot put into words how terrifying this truly is. When Apple has bugs, they have the nuclear option kind of bugs in their software.
This is why I am team Android, at the end of the day many people looking at the same code will discover and upstream patches. There is an incentive for Android OEMs to do this, for Apple, in most cases they cannot be arsed until a suitably large uproar happens. As people will buy their stuff if they are balls deep in that ecosystem. For the most part, that works for them, and I don't object to people willingly choosing that tech fate. I do disparage Apple because they aren't responsible when it counts to fix long standing issues that could harm their user base at a moment's notice.
I do agree with the "tech should work for me" approach; we just seek different things in our gizmos and gadgets, thankfully either of our approaches are quite valid! Also, that the tech market can cater to either of these approaches.
Hey, friend. Thanks for being a decent human even when we don’t match 100-percent on our usage of products.
I enjoyed reading your opinion and how you think about products.
Cheers.
My gaming desktop is only running Windows out of inertia at this point. Windows 10 LTSC specifically; I'm just waiting on the security updates to stop. Everything else in my house is already running something better.
I use Windows 11 as a desktop OS, mostly because it came preinstalled on the laptop, a bunch of apps run on it (Affinity, some photography stuff, Clip Studio Paint, and FL Studio mostly - and I'm aware Davinci Resolve has a linux port but installing it looked like a pain and a half), and for early part of its existence, I thought Windows 11 used to be kinda good actually. ...Bunch of really silly stuff on Microsoft's part has happened since, though, and it has made me very grumpy toward them and I think they're really busy - what do the kid say these days? - losing the plot.
I already dialed back my Xbox subscription (guys, you don't hike a price by over 100€ a year when the price was already damn high!), and already dialed back my Office subscription (yeah I don't need Copilot, thanks) and will probably cancel it altogether next time the bill is due. ...oh and my game purchases have mostly gone to Steam lately.
I use Linux (Debian variants) almost everywhere else, currently on a junk desktop PC (Debian/KDE) and Raspberry Pi 4, mostly for development stuff. I don't think there'd be a huge pain in the neck in moving to Linux again, especially since I already use a lot of open source apps (and I've generally preferred software with sensible purchase terms, etc), but it's not a huge pressing issue right now.
The only reason I keep Windows is for Battlefield 6. Other than that, Linux for everything else and telemetry is blocked at the DNS level. (oh and I'm still running Windows 10 because 11 is a fucking nightmare)
Still on the fence about using it for work, my previous two employers let me use Linux, I'm not sure I'll be as lucky for my next job. (and macOS ergonomics seem so alien to me, plus Liquid Glass is a shit show)
I stopped dual booting in 2025 so there's almost no Windows usage at home now except with Winboat to use Vortex for some games on Nexus mods. I'm aware of workarounds but this is still faster and more reliable if I'm stuck using Vortex for Collections. Otherwise I'll faff around with prefixes and WINE like I did for Dragon Age Origins Mod Manager. Jackify for Wabbajack. Used LIMO too for Expedition 33.
I have: Desktop, Living Room TV PC, and an old server. They all run Linux now. x2 CachyOS and server is Debian. Server is just running BetterMC at the moment.
Stuck using Windows at work. I.T. strips most of the AI crap out and mostly uses the Office suite in Edge browser now except for Excel.
The line was...blurry? I just slowly got too fed up with telemetry, AI slop, vibe coding slowdown, ruined GUI in 11. At the same time Linux gaming was getting better and met my standards. I don't play anything requiring anti cheat anymore even when I was using Windows. Not out of principal but lack of interest. There's also a strong motivator in my life of ditching centralized American software.
I'd like to remove it but I don't have the internet abilities to get all my shit back nor any way to backup, so I'm just ignoring it until I get a new laptop and hopefully remember to put it on Linux when I get it. Presuming Linux works on niche high end laptops anyway.
Ironically you may be better off using linux on your current hardware than the new hardware, since driver support tends to improve with time (the Linux community is known to support hardware long abandoned by the original manufacturers). Bleeding edge (release new) hardware has has less time for the community to work on it, so your experience may be more unstable.
Then maybe Linux isn't ever going to be useful to me, by the time 7000 series GPUs exist my 4090 laptop will probably be done and passed off to someone else.
Dependent on your hard drive's capacity (and free space), you could make a separate partition and install Linux to that, while leaving your existing partition and files untouched. Then you'll be able to access them from the newly installed Linux partition, can move over what ever you need, then remove the Windows partition once you're done.
Drives are full and raided together, which is a pain and I should E undone that while I had a chance.
I was only on Windows for gaming. When Kushner / Saudi royalty bought EA, I dipped because of Kashoggi. I would like to still play bf6 and fortnite but not enough to stay on Windows.
I wish I could switch, I even tried recently(last week). But one of my hobbies is sim racing, and the main game just works extremely poorly, like 30 - 130fps, and Devs have said that they don't want to support linux so they will likely turn of the anti cheat support.
No, I can't really switch because there isn't anything equivalent that works on Linux.
As soon as that works well, or I build a 2nd PC I will switch (no I am not going to bother with dual booting cause I will just spend most of the time in windows)
Still looking for an alternative to FL studio. Spent lots of money on it. And I'm really just hoping they will sooner than later support Linux.
Not familiar with it personally, but I know it gets used on Linux. I've seen a friend of mine play with it once back when it was still called FruityLoops on Windows a decade ago, but I've never personally had it.
There will be a little bit of a hassle initially, a dash of typing in the console, (which shouldn't scare you, but some people freak out if their screen has to look like the 80s, even if just for a minute-even if they are 80s/90s kids) but it seems like it works fine once you get it set up.
I don't know anyone using it personally but going by mentions of it and several pages showing directions to get it running (via Wine) seems to indicate it works.
Anyone familiar with it can add more info, I'm just going by the fact that directions to install it exist.
Wine will help run a bunch of things that are Windows-only. It's not perfect and doesn't work with everything, but FL studio seems to be one it does (based on what I see- again I'd wait to see if someone who uses it chimes in).
I've looked into the wine setup, and while I do see some people having success with it, even the successful ones say it's quite unstable and very laggy on audio processing.
Fruity loops was a long ass time ago It makes perfect sense that worked.
I'm on FL studio 2025, prob soon to be 2026 if there is an update.
As soon as I find an alternative to dual booting just for FL, windows is bye bye
I don't know if it "worked" back then either. At the time my friend hadn't switched to Linux either.
Win7 was still current back then. I don't know about him, but I started to look for a way out when I first installed 10. And by the time 11 was just being hinted at, everything I heard just redoubled my resolve to switch. Honestly having candy crush on the start menu was the straw that broke my willingness to look past the "convenience" of a commercial OS.
I draw one big circle shape line around it to keep it contained.
I drew the line back with XP. Couldn’t stand the fisher price interface, and OS X was getting seriously good at the time.
I have Windows 10 for games, but it's firewalled so hard that it can't check for updates or do any of its other shady stuff. I can't even install components like WSL, because that works through svchost, the single executable doing too much.
I'm using Simplewall for that. The prohibitions for MS shenanigans are a couple checkboxes in the menu.
I had installed a dualboot setup but all programs I use worked natively on linux by luck so I just used that.
I forgot there was windows in my laptop over time until the distrohopping phase when I saw a partition taking up half my space and mounted it out of curiosity.
I've never seen an EMR that runs on Linux and if I did I'd have to find an employer willing to run it.
Eight-axis Milling Rig?
the line is when I can do everything I need to do in a better operating system. why would it be anything else
im using Arch btw
Its still on my wife's and step child's PCs, but not on mine. They don't seem bothered by it or don't use them enough to be inconvenienced, and I'll not force my will on their user experiences. If they mention anything about it I'll gladly help them get into bazzite as I have. So far we've all still been able to play the games we want to together. Oh and my wife has a work laptop that has to be windows but that can't be helped.
I used Windows 10 for a while. But now I've completely moved to various flavors of Linux. I'll get GrapheneOS or something on a phone if possible later.
Only place I still have windows 11 is my work PC. Nearly all the main annoying crap is managed away by IT, and it's still irritating as hell.
I've no reason whatsoever to run Windows, even in a VM.
It's a 365 instance on a small partition for work. I use PowerQuery a lot and found a VM slows down ETL times too much. I work at a university and can use our powerful VMs for remote researchers, but they reset workspace each day, so it's a hassle.
There's no other reason why I have a local copy still and it's always a relief to be done with it for the day.
I not only used, but supported Windows for many many years. I loved and used their technet subscription and was pretty much an evangelist until the whole Windows 8 debacle. This was my first glimpse that they may have lost the plot, but I had faith that such an old and established entity would undoubtedly right itself.
Windows 10 only grudgingly won me over and Windows 11 was a shot across the bow. My subconscious was already planning an exit, but yeah, when the whole fk privacy initiatives came to the fore I began actively planning. The very first day I couldn't find my files because of OneDrive and found out just how difficult it was to opt out of that? My computers started going to Linux. Their doubling down on AI simply convinced me that they have no idea what their customers want anymore. I've got one lone Surface Pro on Windows 10 that's no longer supported, and I've got a Linux NUC solution raised like the blade on a guillotine. One machine left and I say goodbye to this shitshow forever.
My work even said goodbye to Windows recently and we use Mac now. Not a huge Apple fan either but when corporations start ditching Windows as an OS? You'd think they'd take notice. Sadly their head is so far up their ass I don't know that they'll care.
Gave up on Windows fully on my desktop/laptop over a year ago after running numerous Linux servers for years (starting with a Raspberry Pi in 2016). I used to dual-boot for several years, and now I have a Windows VM I keep around in case I need it for something... but in practice I don't actually need it for anything and haven't spun up the Windows VM six months or more.
Work laptop that is assigned to me and controlled by the corporation. Anything personal is Linux.
In the past it has been a necessary evil for some games, but with the increased Linux support my plan is to switch as soon as I have backed up the files I need.
When they killed support in October. I'm still using it at the moment. I need to look for a long term use Linux distro, get a flash drive to put it on, and get a new SSD. With the current prices of PC parts, it looks like that's not happening sometime soon.
Causing me financial harm. For example, Verizon wireless hounded me for more than 3 years over $200 for a home router that I sent back to them.
The worst ms has done is make me read and disable/uninstall some defaults. They have encouraged me to look at alternatives and I have a number of non-ms devices.
Linux always screws up though and is redrawing the line for me. I have a small device that runs Linux and the upgrade process was backup all your data and then wipe/reinstall. wtf?
Another laptop wouldn’t login or let me do anything without typing in a PIN, while MS has Hello and UAC.
Looking up commands or blogs for something that should take 3 clicks, like fixing dpi scaling, shouldn’t take 30+ minutes.
If I struggle even the slightest with simple issues, it’s just not ready for me. I completed my college education solely on Gentoo machines (stage 1 I think it was called?) so I’m comfortable with Linux at a beginner to intermediate level. It’s just not polished.
I go to osx if they supported other hardware.
My user on the internet why the fuck are you using Gentoo for financial applications. There are a multitude of distros with a focus on stable releases rather than being learning tools for masochists (like Debian and derivatives, or Fedora based alternatives).
This sounds like the stories I've heard of young kids installing Kali linux and wondering why it's not working for their everyday tasks.
Mint/debian/ubuntu is where I encountered challenges. I only stated that have experience using Gentoo for a number of years to provide evidence that I’m not completely clueless.