Trump admin says it’s cutting welfare funds to blue states over alleged Minnesota fraud
The cuts to several states come amid an escalating fraud fallout fueled by a dubious YouTube investigation of Minnesota day cares.
The Trump administration on Monday said it had slashed billions in social services funds to a handful of blue states as part of its escalating response to new and unproven fraud allegations in Minnesota.
The Department of Health and Human Services will freeze $10 billion worth of federal grants to California, Colorado, Illinois, Minnesota, and New York, an HHS official told HuffPost, confirming news first reported by The New York Post.
It’s not clear whether the freeze was inspired by specific fraud allegations or solely for political reasons. Officials did not immediately provide a public explanation.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-welfare-freeze-minnesota-tanf_n_695c2a21e4b0908b04a449f0Open linkView original on lemmy.world490
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Those blue state citizens are what funds the red states...
I've been saying it for almost a year now, it won't be easy but blue states need to stop having employees federal taxes sent off every check. Instead send it to a fund, when trump pulls shit like this, use the fund to make up the difference.
It's gonna come to that point eventually and it's a complicated process, so we should have it set up and ready to pull the trigger.
For real, if California and New York alone stopped paying federal taxes, the federal government would go bankrupt immediately.
Why pay into a system that won't pay anything back out to you? Those funds are just going to the likes of Thiel and Musk, who already don't pay enough taxes. Fuck em.
On an individual level everyone can do this today, change your federal withholding to $0 on a w4.
It's 100% legal, and you will still need to pay taxes in April. But you can just not pay anything ahead of time. That whole process is essentially a payment plan that's relatively new but already taken for granted of by the government.
We've already seen enough examples of "doing things at the individual level" to know that not even close to "everyone" will be on board.
By all means, do it. But don't expect the level of solidarity required to make the federal treasury even notice.
Things like this require collective action, and since the average american is union-phobic, the only organizations we can look to are the state governments. But since they don't handle federal taxes, there's not much they can do short of seceding from the union. Which would be a bit too extreme as long as there's even an inkling of hope in a free and fair election followed by a peaceful transfer of power saving us.
In short, we're fucked.
I'm not even pushing it, just saying technically anyone could do it easily.
I agree, and I even explained that in a different comment somewhere. I just find it highly doubtful that enough people will do it for it to make a difference.
There's an under withholding penalty fee to prevent exactly this.
Do you know how many people would flock to blue states if they thought didn't have to pay federal income tax? It would be madness.
They would still be paying the tax
Blue states have most of the adults worth having.
Do you know how many people would flock to blue States if they thought their taxes were going to be spent on anything that will benefit them?
So...they'll leave the states where taxes above and beyond what they pay are spent on them? That seems like an incredibly ignorant response, so it tracks.
Before calling others ignorant, you should try to properly comprehend what you respond to.
I think that would be a feature, not a bug.
And it would go to show the spines of the proud Red Staters when they all flee to a blue state because its 1000x better
isn't that the point?
The social-media-conspiracy-to-federal-policy pipeline is becoming suspiciously short.
When you are run by a dictator, you only need to convince one person to make a change. It’s madness.
Why would blue states still pay into the federal government when they're not getting anything out of it anymore? Seems to me they're financing their own abusive relationship. I don't understand how this works. Aren't blue states the only reason these crappy red states are even still slightly functional?
I'm not American but it seems to me that collectively the blue states would hold a lot of power if they're the financial backbone of the country. Can't they swing their weight around a little?
You would think. Our stupid country has senators based on statehood rather than representation of population. The pocket of Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Montana has ~3.5 million people combined, yet has 4x the voting power of California which has 10x the population. It's a garbage system.
Also if you look at virtually any statistic by state. Red states are a dumpster fire. Literacy, STDs, teen pregnancy, income, obesity, etc.
Only a complete fucking moron could be a republican. The evidence of their failure and unnecessary cruelty is overwhelming.
Taxes levied by the US federal government are against individuals and businesses directly. States also levy their own taxes independently. So these funds paid to the federal government (largely) don't go through state hands.
Ah I see. Then it makes sense. The population itself would have to stop paying taxes. That's a bit more complicated because then individuals would be sanctioned by the government and people probably don't want to take that risk.
They could withhold taxes on state employees. That would be easy. If they wanted to go full second civil war, They could pass laws making it illegal for companies to pay taxes to the federal government.
So the states can just say "hey everyone, until we say to resume, just dont bother paying your federal taxes anymore and we'll keep the feds outside our borders"?
Individuals don't pay their own taxes, their employers do. When you "pay your taxes" at the end of the year, you are just paying difference between what you should have paid and what you did pay. The exception being contract workers.
And if you don't pay your taxes, the government can just seize the money from your bank accounts. Of course, if everybody stopped paying, employers included, the federal government would have a hard time processing it all, but if it wasn't a sudden massive stop, they would just start raiding people's bank accounts, probably without due process.
Except they can't physically keep the federal government away their people, just look at what ICE is doing. It would also prevent people from traveling out of state, or risk getting arrested in a red state.
What are they gonna do, build a wall?
Even MAGAs are so upset with this regime that they are proposing a tax strike. This seems like a cause everyone could support.
I was kinda anti tax evasion (even legal tax evasion) prior to the second Trump admin. Nowadays, I'm in support of everyone doing their best to send as little money to the federal government as possible.
FYI "legal tax evasion" is called tax avoidance. It's a form of direct action against a government that doesn't represent you at all.
I'm happy to pay my California taxes.
Same
You are correct. Unfortunately, state governments don't have a hand in federal taxation. Employers typically withhold the estimated amount from employee's paychecks, and at the beginning of each year everyone submits a tax form. If they paid over their obligation, they get a refund; if they underpaid, they owe money.
Even if someone opts out of tax withholdings, they're responsible for sending their taxes to the federal government each year; typically through a third-party for-profit business (especially now that Republicans trashed the recent IRS pilot which allowed people to file their taxes directly to the federal government for free).
The only solution would be for every resident of that state to individually opt out of federal tax withholdings from their employer, but then they'd be individually liable for submitting their taxes each year. While the IRS doesn't currently have the staffing to handle that if everyone does it, that would require a level of collective trust-in-ones-fellows that simply doesn't exist in this era.
It would be much better if states could offer their protection, but apparently states can't even keep ICE out so the IRS would be no different...
I already do this because they seize my refund to pay off student loans.
That sucks, dude
Well, they could, MAGAs don't mind abusing their authority at all, even when they DON'T have it, but Dems think its impolite, and people are watching, and demonstrating politeness and non-confrontational dialogue are the most important things to Democratic leaders, even more than winning races and protecting American Democracy from corrupt traitors, pedophiles, and rapists. Smugness is all-important.
The executive doesn't have that unilateral authority. What he's doing is illegal; unconstitutional, even.
"No taxation without representation" ring any bells?
He can do whatever he wants. No one is stopping him. Your system needs to be torn down and rebuilt.
Is that you volunteering to throw the first brick?
I'm not allowed into your country, so I'm not really sure how to help you with that
Bummer dude, it's a shithole here. You're not missing much. Many of us want out.
If Trump's actions are illegal or unconstitutional, the reason is not related to "No taxation without representation." Minnesota has representation in the Senate and in the House.
Wrong. By unilaterally withholding congressionally-allocated tax funds (which is unconstitutional), he's using executive power to bypass Congress.
In other words, the representational branch of the US government is being boxed out of their constitutional duty to allocate federal funds. The people's elected representatives are not having the final say on how that tax money is being distributed, as the constitution prescribes.
The people are still paying taxes. Their elected representatives are being bypassed (unconstitutionally) by the executive, who is unilaterally withholding congressionally-allocated tax funds. That is not what it means to have representation.
He is not wrong.
Yes, he is. Congressional representation being bypassed by unilateral executive overreach is effectively the same thing as "no representation."
Having the authority is inversely proportional to the rest of the government having a spine.
They’re spineless, so he has the authority.
What authority he has is spelled out in the constitution, and the authority to do what he's doing is given to Congress. Doing it without congressional approval is unconstitutional.
Congress and the judiciary being spineless or complicit doesn't confer authority. It might give him the leeway to overstep his authority, but that doesn't change the fact that he doesn't have the authority.
Let's not muddy the waters. He would love for you to believe he does have the authority.
Yeah…my comment was obviously not intended to withstand legal scrutiny. You took it way too seriously. For the record - constitutionality is not a factor in restraining this president.
I know you meant it to be humorous. If I thought you were seriously trying to claim that he has the authority, my response would have been much sharper and likely gotten me banned.
That being said, I disagree that I took it too seriously. I take it very seriously. It's a serious matter. I believe we must be firm and clear about that.
And I understand that so far he seems to be getting away with flagrantly violating the constitution at every turn. That pisses me off to no end. But it doesn't change the fact that he is subject to the restraints imposed by the constitution. He has no legal basis for disregarding it, and I won't mince words about that. Nor will I joke about it.
It's already bad enough that he's getting away with it. Let's not pretend that means he's actually allowed to do anything he wants.
I really don’t know why you’re trying to argue with me. It’s not like I disagree. Feel free to soapbox all you want, I guess.
And if nobody does anything then yes he has the authority. Didn't someone in your government just say might makes right about taking over Greenland.
That’s going to be tough, some pretty serious weather and not much there until you “drill baby drill”
Canada on the other hand has lots of nice places to live and work. If he invades Canada, I’ll bet he gets lots of volunteers …. To march across the border and petition for asylum
That's not what authority is.
And don't pretend the inane drivel that comes out of steven miller's mouth constitutes valid legal rationale.
Laws don't fucking matter when the systems that hold the corrupt accountable have been subverted by the very corrupt they meant to police.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't call it out. Don't let them dominate the narrative with their "might makes right" rhetoric.
Ofc it's political. Trump's an erratic, angry old man that even Susie Wiles said has the temperment of a raging drunk.
(FYI, Trump is a teetotaler. His behavior, that's dementia in action..)
You can't blame the dementia, he has behaved like that for decades.
Seriously? It's not? Does it need to be spelled out in 24 point font, in an affidavit, witnessed and signed by a judge for it to be clear to these people?
It’s not cause of the issues in Minnesota. It’s cause they are blue. Full stop.
Also, Trump is a convicted felon and pedophile. So there’s that.
He's also a Traitor, and a Rapist.
Aren't we pretty much at or close to trumps a child sex trafficker now in addition to being a pedophile?
Yeah. I think so. I was calling that like a month ago.
They are desperate to start an insurrection so they can cancel the 2026 midterms
And you know, once you bring your population to the point of violent, open rebellion, things will settle right down with a little martial law!
If they are smart, they will still hold the elections just refuse to seat reps from 5-6 blue states. That would keep them in power for another 2 years.
Time for blue states to stop allowing federal taxes to be paid by their citizens. File suits on behalf of your constituents. No taxation without representation
It would be fucking phenomenal for my state to keep the dollars internal and invest in more in its citizens. Why the fuck am I working everyday to subsidize the fuckers in the south and midwest that keep voting to wreck everything around us.
Agree 100% they can live in pedofile propaganda con man land and we can cut that insanity off
More to the point, though, every dollar that flees to a red state is one that isn't investing in mine.
If they hat handouts so much it's time to grow a pair and figure out to feed their own damned selves.
Not sure how things roll in the "united" states but obviously states shouldn't support the federation if theyre treated unfairly.
I know it’s an old fashioned idea but the point of the union is to force the states to work these issues out without resorting to civil war…again
Along similar lines, I always noticed how we have a vigorous debate about tax rates but nobody ever seems to discuss the benefits you receive for them. The tax rate isn't going down to zero for working people ever. As long as we have to pay, surely we should get something in return.
How do you afford those benefits? I have no objection to tax rates paid by 95% of the population, but I strongly object to the tax rates paid paid by Elon musk and others of that ilk
Absolutely. People who don't "care" about "politics" , they do care about economic issues that affect them
SO WHAT ABOUT THE EPSTEIN FILES???
Don't stop talking about this. Drumpf, the pedo rapist felon, wants us to stop talking about the Epstein/Trump Files. Do not stop talking about the Epstein/Trump Files because drumpf is a pedo rapist felon.
NY should release Maduro and claim they didn't have the funds to hold him. And Luigi.
Blue states need to call up the state guard.
It's clear that the federal government is not willing to keep them safe.
This further solidifies red states' status as leeches.
Remember that with Republicans and conservatives, every accusation is a confession.
Soon there will be a critical mass of people who have nothing left to lose
Time for the Blue States to cut funding to the Red Oblasts.
Even if Trump was right about everything... Hillary's emails, the '20 election, any random sentence. If he was literally correct every single time about it all... You can't just punish whole states of citizens because you're mad at the people in charge there.
The crazy amount of context you can take away without missing a beat about how wrong he is about everything he does is absolutely crazy.
alleged minnesota fraud that was fully debunked within 48 hours as hot bullshit.
Then blue states should allow companies with employees in that state to not deduct federal taxes
This decision was made based on a Youtube video, made by some rando with Trump-friendly views, directed at Minnesota's most visible minority.
This should go without saying but: Youtubers. Should. NOT. Influence. Policy.
Correct me if I'm wrong but not even Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones ever had this much sway on influencing policy.
Rush Limbaugh literally set the stage for this. The kind of guy who should have been immediately cancelled. Instead, he was allowed to live on as a celebrity radio hate monger. Hate radio poisoned an entire generation of people. Rush didn't do it by himself, but he was the poster child for it.
Alex may have not had as big of an impact but he tortured people who lost their children in probably one of the most psychologically damaging ways possible.
Allowing people like that to make millions off of lies and hate is no kind of freedom for those who suffer. Of course Trump awarded Limbaugh the Presidential Medal of Freedom. I think he may have influenced a little more than policy.
So then blue state citizens should cut their federal tax payments. No taxation without representation.
He really wants a war, whether it be a civil or with another country.
This way he can cancel all elections and become the King of America.
Won't last. The pedofascists got immediately smacked down in court the last time they tried this.
Collective punishment is Unconstitutional. Punishment without trial is also Unconstitutional.
Oh. That'll teach them. I'm sure they'll think about that while they are taking Greenland and raping children.
Is it normal in the US to create different laws for different states?
In the EU, every country is adhering to the same laws. The only way to differentiate between them is to create the law with prerequisites the countries need to adhere to. That means the law will change to any country if they manage to change their adherence.
Yes and no. Laws can be designed for different states or even interpreted differently based on state law. A good example is conditional funding based on certain criteria, drinking age for example. What is unusual, and maybe unconstitutional, is if the laws are designed to target certain groups or political affiliations. So if the purpose or effect violates constitutional protections, such as equal protection, due process, the First Amendment, or bans on bills of attainder (laws targeting specific people). But we all know with this administration it is a free-for-all since so much of this shit is blatantly either illegal or unconstitutional and nothing is being done to stop them.
You're talking about State laws being different.
They're asking about the Federal government applying federal laws differently to select States.
Which is very not normal.
No I really wasn’t.
For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_jurisdictions_subject_to_the_special_provisions_of_the_Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965
Now it’s not common but it’s not unprecedented.
The reasons he’s doing it this time are not normal.
I don't think anything this dude is doing is legal or constitutional. But since the supreme court and congress has let him do it, that doesn't really matter in reality.
Congress allocated social services funds so the executive can’t legally block that
There are no conditions, so they can’t block it over an unrelated matter
The president can’t just decide to block social services funds based on some idiot streamer’s claim
The President can’t legally block social services funding to random states just because they lean against his party - they’re not even trying to justify that
The President may be able to “swarm” federal agents for a suspected fraud claim but it would be stupid. Even stupider if based only on a random YouTuber.
50 states is almost like 50 different countries. Federal law covers some things but a lot is also left up to the states.
Blue states will have to "work harder" to get that juicy cut of venezuelan oil income then.