Yes. It is a Chinese company with american investors with non-technical jobs in the UK to be able to claim "UK company" for marketing.
Their electronics are designed only in China, the devices are programmed only in China, their software is developed in China their technical job postings are all in China for years, their CEO ran a previous Chinese owned brand (lying/misleading about the company back then too) and has worked in the Chinese phone industry for 15 years.
Their CMF line and wearables lines are all ODM'ed through various Chinese companies (for those not aware, OEM is where something is designed by a company and manufactured by another where ODM is where everything is designed by another company and the branded company just gives requirements and some input, I worked previously for an ODM kind of company) and are generic widely-available hardware marked up for brand name recognition.
I had an RMA claim with nothing a few days ago and wow, did I hate it. They threw every stone they could find at me, and then managed to "forget" a part of the money they owed me.
Which is a shame, because I really dig their design. But fuck them.
There is no phone that’s 100% Chinese or American tech anyway. Like RAM and storage comes from Korea, often the camera sensor from Japan, the lens is designed in Germany and the CPU is based on ARM’s architecture designs and ARM is from the UK.
Here in Sweden they started with fishing for funding and making press about being a Swedish company. It worked and they got hype. Then they moved to some UK tax haven and now they are apparently based on London.
@whaleross@RmDebArc_5 Nothing founder is Taiwan I think that lived some time in Sweden, it is not Swedish in any sense of the word. Brittish though but all manufacturing is in China as everything else
I'm saying that they marketed themselves as a new exciting Swedish tech disruptor while doing funding rounds here in Sweden. Then swiftly left anything Sweden behind and avoiding taxes doing it.
It does seem Swedish press and even tech press still think they are Swedish though.
I'm not too familiar how the company is managed, but I have Nothing 3. It's fine. Nothing special (unless you count the flashing lights on the back), gets the job done but so does pretty much every other android-based slab. At least it isn't full of vendor forced crap like samsung.
It is fully unlockable still, though, and has custom roms, so it's under consideration for when my phone gives up the ghost. Not many brands left with easy bootloader unlocks.
Final assembly, software installation, and quality inspection of Jolla Phones take place
in Salo, Finland. In the same city where Nokia once built the world's most popular
phones, a new European phone is now being born
Sure, but the real apple where the californian hq buys copyrights worth billions from is in Ireland, that's why there's no profit made in cupertino or any apple store in all of usa 🤡
But in actual reality, a good quality USB dongle (like apple's for example) there is little to no hearable or measurable difference. Hell, over on reddit, someone just did a casual blind test again with a few audiophile friends and they all failed.
Every blind test done in the past decade has proven this over and over and over again.
Audio is extremely easy with modern ICs. You can get DAC ICs for 2-3€ that sounds the same as DACs products for 200€. We are reaching terahertz DACs now. Gigahertz DACs are established. <100kHz can be perfectly recreated now cheaply and in a tiny footprint.
Volume, sure, they won't necessarily drive 600Ohm headphones loud enough, but that is an AMP problem, not a DAC problem.
(Though this is even more reason that an on-board phone DAC is ridiculously easy and there is no need for removing the headphone jack)
Of course not but it uses USB so you cannot block that which increases attack surface for no reason
Nobody can hack you via a headphone jack
And Apple heavily reduces the volume on non-Apple devices, which is very audible on bigger headphones. Mine are made to be used on normal hardware but they are already quite limited. Fine, but at the total max volume.
Audio is extremely easy with modern ICs.
Yes and that is why DACs are stupid
causing wear on your port (where you need to remove the display to replace it, and that you use for charging AND data transfer) is stupid
It is not okay that they cost minimum 10€
Low quality usb plugs will cause wear on your port. I had cheap ones and they were fine but got a bad contact very quickly.
Builtin jacks are so amazing. They just work. They make tech pleasant, instead of worrying about silly connectivity issues that nobody should care about
One advantage of USB-C earbuds is that they can have ANC without needing an integrated battery or other power source, since they are powered by the USB-C port
How do you think they create (analog) sound from the (digital) data from the USB-C port? There is an integrated chip with hardware USB support, stereo DAC and headphone-level amp, all of which is cheap now.
Or was what you meant "the chip is built into the plug, the cable of the headphones is analog so subject to interference"? That is true and negates one of the advantages, although most audible interference is picked up pre-amplification (so the DAC and amp better be shielded, like inside a phone, which is not possible with USB-C).
Yeah. Usually the same kind of hardware that'd be used for a 3.5mm jack. This is to ease transition from 3.5mm, and why the usb-c to 3.5mm adapters are usually wires with no active components.
Most USB+c controllers you'd find that'd be used as phones just have this functionality built-in.
The sole reason my current phone is a Motorola instead of a Fairphone. I don't want to fuck around with additional adapters, just let me plug in my headphones directly. Also nice to be able to charge and listen at the same time.
I had the shiftphone6 back in 2018 and I believe it had an alternative OS installed, in any case I can't remember the google play store pre-installed (correct me if I'm wrong).
Can not recommend from personal experience. Their phones break easily, including electronic malfunctions. And their customer support sucks. According to them, they do not even like to have the phones to be taken outside.
On the upside: they are usually easily repairable. Do always make backups of important data, photos etc. from day one though.
I have been calling them Shitphone since. Feels more appropriate.
The upcoming Jolla is manufactured in Finland afaik. Or maybe assembled is a better word? Smartphone components come from around the world and not just China.
Part of the reason other phones are cheaper is because you're the product. They're collecting data and selling it. If you don't want this you're going to have to pay more.
other phones are cheaper mostly due to economies of scale, though. like, idk, china makes a few million phones at once, while in europe they make, what, a few thousand phones at once?
Seriously, I want a phone that I can hold in one hand, and my thumb can reach the entirety of the screen. My current phone is so bulky and heavy, I can barely reach half the screen with my thumb.
I haven't, do you have any specific recommendations? These Xperias seem just as big, if not bigger, than the phone I currently have. And I don't know if narrower is necessarily the solution to my problem either, I know we live in a 16:9 world, but I kind of just want a square phone.
I need to buy a new phone and my criteria is basically yours, plus having a good camera. I would go for the FP6 but as I was checking a review video, the camera is not very good... Do you have by any chance any recommendations?
I'd look at HMD fusion if I were buying now and look for the business edition with longer update support and more RAM.
My Nokia was made by HMD. It's been great and will be for a while longer as it's got plenty of support.
You can get an "outfit" (case) with a built in ring light for the 108MP camera which I definitely don't need. The "outfit" system is basically the phone has a set of pins on the back that allow custom hardware extensions built into to the case.
The HMDs have got to the point I could repair them or replace the battery without worrying about a heat pad and glue. That's a big selling point.
Granted, I'm not certain how you'd define "good." I got one just to play music on, and it might well have become my regular daily phone, but the camera isn't quite what I would want. But it's so small!
Yeah, sounds pretty nice. But as you guessed, my definition of "good" includes official Lineageos support or similar, which it does not seem to have. Or has someone tried a GSI rom with it?
The FP6 is only marginally larger (6.3") and actually "feels" fairly compact, if that makes sense. Recently switched to one from a FP3 (5.6") without any issues and without having to adjust anything about how I use it.
A subjective matter, surely. Currently I have a Samsung S10 at 6.1" and I find it uncomfortably big at times.
If you compare the FP6 with the FP3, they don't actually differ in body size that much because the FP3 had a way lower screen-to-body ratio, therefore they might seem very similar when holding in hand.
With phones nowadays mostly having that huge screen-to-body ratio, bigger screens are one the one hand easier to fit in a smaller device, but at the other hand, the phones themselves also seem to get bigger and bigger.
Try going on the lineageos device overview site and filter for phones in the last 5 years under 6", that's what i mean.
I bought a fairphone 6 recently. It works as you would expect any phone to work with no noticeable downsides.
I paid extra to have /e/OS preinstalled. I could have bought the android version and upgraded it myself, but I wanted to support open source development. I want to try Ubuntu touch, but it hasn't been updated for the fairphone 6 yet.
I can't use any banking apps on /e/OS by default, but that's because the apps require google play services for "security". Enabling these services is possible, but would defeat the purpose of getting the phone to de-google. Bank websites still work, just slightly less convenient.
I dislike the case. It leaves more of the phone exposed than I would like. It does seem to protect the phone from most drops though.
I'm still disappointed by the lack of headphone jack, but I hate Google more.
I was surprised that my favourite feature became the hardware switch. I rebound it to the torch. For moments when you want a light for just a few seconds, it's so much more convenient.
Could you download Google play, download the banking apps and then delete Google play? Does it matter to have Google play if you only use it for a few apps?
Not only the play store is needed. You need to install an special package with the whole of Google services, often while in recovery/download mode.
But, to answer/illustrate your question, as a matter of fact, you can install Play store apps even without Play store. Aurora store is an app that connects to the Google servers too get you the very same apks. That's when you realize, after installed the banking app, that it starts bitching about the Google services missing. "This app was designed to run with Google Play Services, and cannot operate without it". And poof, it auto closes in your face.
Google is the one reassuring them that this way their banking app won't be tampered with by anyone. It's how they convinced them to trust the Google/Apple in the first place. That's why they moved away from physical tokens and the like, because the trusted agent is now Google. I'd rather go back to tokens and a webpage I could use from the phone, TBH, but that's almost a non starter these days.
Google Play and Google Play Services are separate things. Google Play allows you to download apps, whereas Google Play Services provides the foundation that most apps are built to run on top of.
You can download apps from google play or equivalent stores, but google play services is built into the device.
The de-googled version of play services is microG. It provides many of the same API services for most apps, but can't do the security things that banking apps request.
But is it a problem if an app is run on google services? Like does google have access to your bank data? Do they get access to other data by having it on your phone?
They get access to A LOT of what that app does. Moreover, through Google services, a lot of ad libraries can get access to a list of all your installed apps, without even asking or informing you.
That won't work for BankID in Sweden as it doesn’t have a web version. BankID is an electronic ID app so entrenched in everyday life you need it multiple times a day around here.
For the Danish equivalent (MitID) I just ordered an OTC keyring from their site.
You can also keep an instance on an old phone if you really want a backup.
Having a bank app on your phone is anyway not the apex of data security. For the amount of times I use it in a week, desktop only use is fine.
That’s what I thought until my bank announced that they will be phasing out the code booklets and replacing them with a mobile app. Good luck trying to log in without a phone app.
holy shit, thats expensive for the 30 minutes it takes to install grapheneOS. with their web interface i would even trust my parents to not fuck up the installation of graphene.
and if i had a threat model which involves disoldering sensors, microphones, etc i wouldnt trust them as a source. not because nitrokey is untrustworthy. just because atleast in my mind almost nobody is trustworthy enough.
edit: just to be clear, no shade towards nitrokey. i just dont see the targeted customer base.
I'm really in no hurry to give Google ever money again. But whenever my current Pixel irrepairably dies i will probably just get another used Pixel and flash Graphene on it.
I can really get behind the spirit to get european made phones instead. But atleast for now they all come with too much compromises in one way or another.
GrapheneOS is always looking out for a potential phone they can migrate to, since Google has stopped publishing the device trees for the Pixels. While they currently support the Pixels anyway, it is a long term goal for them to be on an independent platform.
I just wish there was a way to get the Fairphone in the U.S. I love the repairability aspect and I already use LineageOS as my main OS to keep my devices as long as possible. I also have access to a 3D printer to build accessories and parts for them too.
A good idea if you can't buy Euro is to buy used and flash LineageOS if your device is supported. I'm using a Pixel 4a 5G as my driver with LineageOS since I know how to repair it and I have easy access to parts for them. (Thanks to buying bulk parts from local offices near me that used them.)
I don't know who Murena is, but I appreciate you sharing this with me! I will definitely look into them! Do they just go by Murena or do they have a Merchant front with a different name?
Well, I suppose that you can order one via international delivery company straight from a manufacturer/seller. It may be more expensive and longer to wait but totally possible.
I thought about doing it, but the prices for parts and importing them was my reasoning to stop because of the tariffs and the already high price of the product. But I might give it a go once I run out of parts for my Pixel 4A 5g or the LineageOS maintainer stops working on it.
HMD is Chinese but owns a lot of former Nokia intellectual property that was related to is phones. (NOKIA had a lot of other business assets that they didn't buy)
HMD is founded by a former Nokia exec called Jean-Francois Baril. A French man. And the company is operated out of Finland. So if HMD is Chinese, because they manufacture in China, then every phone maker is Chinese.
Or, simply don't create value for used pixel devices by not buying them. Buying used phones of one brand will make it's resell value for up. People like new phones with a good resell value, people buy those phones. Buying a used pixel gives money to Google.
I really want a FairPhone with e/os but can't justify buying a second phone hahaha
I have an iPhone that I use for my job - got it from my employer as well so it's basically a free phone. Personally, if it wasn't for my job, I'd delete all "social" media (IG and the likes), but it's the main part of my job (I work in online communications). Still would love a second, more privacy-based, personal phone, but doesn't feel like a possibility atm. Costs money as well!
Putting personal information on a work phone is a risky behavior. Most company phones are setup to give the company control over and access to everything on the phone.
Personally, I would never use a company phone for anything that isn’t for work.
Good thing is that I went to the store and bought it myself with the company card. My phone has never been in their possession nor are they monitoring what I do on it or on my pc (because same thing there)
FP6 was planned to have CalyxOS available but CalyxOS got kinda fucked over when 4 of their major team left. It may come one day though. You can use iodeOS but its basically lineage with bootloader locking
I have a nothing phone 3 and very happy with it, it does everything you really want a smartphone to do, and looks stylish (imo) and has a really slick UI.
Downsides are camera is not good in low light and they push the AI stuff too hard.
And I'm not sure it quite justified the price tags when comparing it to Chinese or Samsung phones at a similar spec, but it's not way off and for me was easy to justify a slightly higher price tag for a British based design company and better repairability/rights as well as some cool features and looks.
But the price point is the one thing all these 3rd party phones suffer from, you either have to make a proper budget phone, or try and make a flagship, but will cost 20% more than a Samsung because of scale costs.
does anybody have experience with the Jolla C2 Community Phone?
the price is listed as 285€, which is about the maximum i'd be willing to pay for a phone. does the device work well? does it run smoothly? does the OS work well enough? (it's some custom linux-based OS with android app compatibility, they write on their website)
I had a Fairphone 3, but ran into a lot of problems with the phone suddenly shutting down on its own. I hadn't fiddled with it at all, and I couldn't find much advice apart from "Try pulling it apart, cleaning it, and putting it back together again".
I really love the concept though, but I'm worried my bank and government identification won't work on Fairphone now.
Instead of being worried about compatibility, read about experiences and lists. It depends on the OS
Fairphone runs proprietary Android by default, with a locked bootloader. There should be zero issues why banks should block this, as they dont actually care about security
I didn't realise it was European, but I bought a Nothing mainly because it was one of the few options with an unlockable bootloader. I'm going stock this time, but at least I'll have the option to unlock it if I change my mind later.
It's so sad they didn't cought up with the smartphone development, their out-of-the-box thinking and daring designs is what we miss in the current market. They used to be the market leaders.
Now it's all glass planks with a bunch of cameras, biggest difference is the amount of bloatware pre-installed and the amount of AI slop integration.
Way beyond what I would consider spending on a phone. Is there anything more like £50? Or tablet tbh, can use a free phone with PAYG so it only does calls/SMS, then use a tablet instead.
Think I am better off looking for second hand stuff tbh. Currently using some fire tablet I got for £15. It's a little slow at times and often runs out of memory so maybe doubling the RAM would be worth it if it isn't too pricey.
Other than being a little slow, what pain? It was £15 second hand but unused. I just install stuff from APKs or f-droid. Mainly use: Web browser, VLC, steamlink, comaps and termux.
The Volla Quintus appears to be almost identical, to the Daria Bond that is sold in the UAE. Specs look identical from what I could see and the only difference I can make out are very minor design changes in the back side shell. Volla's marketing and statements are pretty misleading about that. I am not saying they should not work with Chinese OEMs but they create the impression there was meaningful customisation going on from their side, maybe there was but it looks very much off the shelf from an OEM model.
At the same time Volla also sells Plinius. It is actually a stronger phone, for a lower price than the Quintus but looks very much like the strongest Gigaset phone (which is lower mid-range), so should be actually manufactured in Germany (as much as any phone in Europe could possibly be I think). It is bewildering that they don't put the Gigaset model square and centre.
But do forget the CMF buds and watch. Both suck ass. Watch doesn't do anything it claims it does. The buds run out of battery charges in just over a year.
I had the original buds. Good luck with yours. Since mine are now e-waste I figured my next pair should have replaceable batteries. Went with fairfone buds, and they have very outdated Bluetooth so i cant watch videos with synced audio. But at least I can in theory have them for the rest of my life...as long as they keep selling the batteries which are proprietary but look off the shelf. .... I have not had good luck as far as Bluetooth buds are concerned.
I've had a Nothing Phone 3 for just over a month running google-free (mostly FOSS apps or loading from Aurora, F-Droid etc) and I love it. Easily the best camera on a phone I have ever owned.
No. In the big chain store right across the road from me, there's a bunch of brand new Xiaomis, Realmes, Samsungs and Motorollas for as low as $70. Admittedly the cheapest ones are a complete e-waste, but the ones in $150-200 range are perfectly capable of doing anything you'd need a phone to do for the next 3-5 years. Phones have became an appliance these days, you don't really need to buy the best microwave in the market every year, just buy the second cheapest when previous breaks after a decade and it'll be just as fine. Same with phones, the only real differences I see in top-end vs budget phones is like just a slightly faster cpu, slightly better displays, slightly better cameras and wireless charging. But that's to me sounds like a 900W microwave with moisture sensor and app control versus a 800W one without any any of that, but at 4X the price difference.
This of course doesn't apply if you're like playing competitive Fortnite or PUBG on the phone or something, to which I would say: 1) WHY? get a console, ffs, or better yet, a proper gaming pc, and 2) you're not really buying a phone at this point, but a handheld console that just happens to fill that role as well. Same goes if you buy Apple for things locked in their ecosystem.
PS. And yeah, nothing of it has any relation to Europe, it just happens that 3 out of 4 phones in that image are way overpriced for what they're worth.
Sure, buy american hardware to flash an operating system based on an american operating system made by an american mega-corp. (yes, graphene OS only works on google pixels afaik)
You understood the assignment perfectly on this european community, congrats.
Too deep in the Apple ecosystem and too happy about it. Even though I am very curious about the Fairphone, I know that I will be annoyed by an isolated piece of equipment.
I like apple's stuff too, but don't let the fact that it all works so well convince you apple is a good company. Apple is evil in many ways, from how they treat the factory workers to how they treat their customers. They give you high quality but they overcharge you while they take your freedom. If they wanted to they could have designed an ecosystem that let's you add a product made by another company, but they don't do that because they rather suck you dry.
I know all of that. I also use a car, even though it contributes to climate change. I also eat fried potatoes, even though they are carcinogenic. I drink whiskey and rum, even though ethanol is carcinogenic, too.
I am not proud of it. But I am just trying to survive somehow.
Like Keanu's name was discovered by explorers who found his sarcophagus, and upon opening it, Keanu sat up and said, "Hi, I'm Keanu, could you close the lid for 5 more minutes, then give me loke 10 minutes to shave and get dressed--is black still in style?--then we can hang out." And then he was ready to hang out just 8 minutes later because he couldn't get back to sleep, was a pro at competitive level shaving, and black was still in style. When asked where his name came from, Keanu just shrugged and said it was already here when he arrived and that it's up to everyone to decide for themselves where his name came from.
Isn't Nothing practically a Chinese brand with just the marketing department working in the UK?
Spez is also part of Nothing
Fuck it then.
Just an investor. Not a designer. Rich people throw money at things to get more money.
I couldn't find anything on that, do you have a source?
https://us.nothing.tech/pages/about
Holy Hell
Also, there's a EU flag but the UK has been so stupid to leave the EU.
yeah, but they are still European though
No, the Council of Europe flag is different and it includes a white handwritten "e" all around the stars.
My bad. I mixed it up with the Council of Europe "logo", which is exactly the one that I've described.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Europe
Yes. It is a Chinese company with american investors with non-technical jobs in the UK to be able to claim "UK company" for marketing.
Their electronics are designed only in China, the devices are programmed only in China, their software is developed in China their technical job postings are all in China for years, their CEO ran a previous Chinese owned brand (lying/misleading about the company back then too) and has worked in the Chinese phone industry for 15 years.
Their CMF line and wearables lines are all ODM'ed through various Chinese companies (for those not aware, OEM is where something is designed by a company and manufactured by another where ODM is where everything is designed by another company and the branded company just gives requirements and some input, I worked previously for an ODM kind of company) and are generic widely-available hardware marked up for brand name recognition.
Their marketing is in the UK, that's about it.
Isn’t it also called white label?
Yep, also. That is the more "business/financial" term I think.
I had an RMA claim with nothing a few days ago and wow, did I hate it. They threw every stone they could find at me, and then managed to "forget" a part of the money they owed me.
Which is a shame, because I really dig their design. But fuck them.
The days of people preferring the US to China are over. I would buy Chinese tech over US tech any day.
There is no phone that’s 100% Chinese or American tech anyway. Like RAM and storage comes from Korea, often the camera sensor from Japan, the lens is designed in Germany and the CPU is based on ARM’s architecture designs and ARM is from the UK.
Here in Sweden they started with fishing for funding and making press about being a Swedish company. It worked and they got hype. Then they moved to some UK tax haven and now they are apparently based on London.
I'm not very supportive of Nothing.
@whaleross @RmDebArc_5 Nothing founder is Taiwan I think that lived some time in Sweden, it is not Swedish in any sense of the word. Brittish though but all manufacturing is in China as everything else
I'm saying that they marketed themselves as a new exciting Swedish tech disruptor while doing funding rounds here in Sweden. Then swiftly left anything Sweden behind and avoiding taxes doing it.
It does seem Swedish press and even tech press still think they are Swedish though.
I'm not too familiar how the company is managed, but I have Nothing 3. It's fine. Nothing special (unless you count the flashing lights on the back), gets the job done but so does pretty much every other android-based slab. At least it isn't full of vendor forced crap like samsung.
It is fully unlockable still, though, and has custom roms, so it's under consideration for when my phone gives up the ghost. Not many brands left with easy bootloader unlocks.
@RmDebArc_5 @maam this is the reality of most Western businesses. Production in China and company address in the West
I’m pretty sure they all are
Jolla manufactures in Turkey through its partnership with reeder
The Jolla C2 is being made in Turkey. The new Jolla J2 that's up for preorder now will be
madeassembled in Finland in the old Nokia fabs.The SoC (i.e. the chip that contains the CPU, GPU and pretty much everything else that matters too) in it is made by Mediatek. Taiwanese.
According to Jolla
Nothing's headquarters is in London so by definition it is a UK company.
Just like Apple is an Irish one 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Apple's hq is in Cupertino, California
Sure, but the real apple where the californian hq buys copyrights worth billions from is in Ireland, that's why there's no profit made in cupertino or any apple store in all of usa 🤡
So IKEA is Dutch?
Lol a UK company with 0% of their product made in the UK, it is literally just a marketing office.
The audiophiles will crucify me, but I will accept two USBC ports as consolation.
I just hate how bulky most c connectors are and feel like that they break more easily because of that.
There is this kind of audiophile that pretends that USB DAC's are better anyways
(They arent, for normal headphones)
But in actual reality, a good quality USB dongle (like apple's for example) there is little to no hearable or measurable difference. Hell, over on reddit, someone just did a casual blind test again with a few audiophile friends and they all failed.
Every blind test done in the past decade has proven this over and over and over again.
Audio is extremely easy with modern ICs. You can get DAC ICs for 2-3€ that sounds the same as DACs products for 200€. We are reaching terahertz DACs now. Gigahertz DACs are established. <100kHz can be perfectly recreated now cheaply and in a tiny footprint.
Volume, sure, they won't necessarily drive 600Ohm headphones loud enough, but that is an AMP problem, not a DAC problem.
(Though this is even more reason that an on-board phone DAC is ridiculously easy and there is no need for removing the headphone jack)
Of course not but it uses USB so you cannot block that which increases attack surface for no reason
Nobody can hack you via a headphone jack
And Apple heavily reduces the volume on non-Apple devices, which is very audible on bigger headphones. Mine are made to be used on normal hardware but they are already quite limited. Fine, but at the total max volume.
Yes and that is why DACs are stupid
causing wear on your port (where you need to remove the display to replace it, and that you use for charging AND data transfer) is stupid
It is not okay that they cost minimum 10€
Low quality usb plugs will cause wear on your port. I had cheap ones and they were fine but got a bad contact very quickly.
Builtin jacks are so amazing. They just work. They make tech pleasant, instead of worrying about silly connectivity issues that nobody should care about
Right, there are cheap usb-c headphone now lol. Really no reason not to have high quality headphones with their own dedicated high end DAC
One advantage of USB-C earbuds is that they can have ANC without needing an integrated battery or other power source, since they are powered by the USB-C port
Those cheap USB c headphones virtually never have their own DAC
Edit: I'm wrong, see reply
How do you think they create (analog) sound from the
(digital) datafrom the USB-C port? There is an integrated chip with hardware USB support, stereo DAC and headphone-level amp, all of which is cheap now.Or was what you meant "the chip is built into the plug, the cable of the headphones is analog so subject to interference"? That is true and negates one of the advantages, although most audible interference is picked up pre-amplification (so the DAC and amp better be shielded, like inside a phone, which is not possible with USB-C).
USB-C does support analog out (see AAAM) so long as the host device supports / has nessesary hardware.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C#Audio_adapter_accessory_mode
TIL. Thanks!
Yeah. Usually the same kind of hardware that'd be used for a 3.5mm jack. This is to ease transition from 3.5mm, and why the usb-c to 3.5mm adapters are usually wires with no active components.
Most USB+c controllers you'd find that'd be used as phones just have this functionality built-in.
Thanks for the info. Still acceptable to skip the 3.5mm plug though. Just one less component easily replaced by usb-c.
And I assume there are more expensive over ear headphones with a better DAC. Not that I'd ever be able to hear much of a difference lol
I already have two pairs of bricked bluetooth headphones, I won't have a third.
The sole reason my current phone is a Motorola instead of a Fairphone. I don't want to fuck around with additional adapters, just let me plug in my headphones directly. Also nice to be able to charge and listen at the same time.
to add another (german) brand: https://www.shift.eco/
I had the shiftphone6 back in 2018 and I believe it had an alternative OS installed, in any case I can't remember the google play store pre-installed (correct me if I'm wrong).
Like Fairphone they have a cooperation with the open source android fork project eOs/murena
https://e.foundation/e-os/
I was quite interested about a year ago, but seeing that they are now branching out to like 5 other "shift" products concerns me.
Many of these are likely just rebranded products, not their own development.
Not really helping the good feels
Several of the products are actively being "crowd funded"...
Granted I didn't read the fine print, but that gives me the impression that they are more involved.
I suppose they could just be preorders and gauging interest to determine how many to order with their branding. It still makes me feel a bit unsure.
Can not recommend from personal experience. Their phones break easily, including electronic malfunctions. And their customer support sucks. According to them, they do not even like to have the phones to be taken outside.
On the upside: they are usually easily repairable. Do always make backups of important data, photos etc. from day one though.
I have been calling them Shitphone since. Feels more appropriate.
What you get for the price is a European phone. No way it can compete on hardware/price with other phones.
The upcoming Jolla is manufactured in Finland afaik. Or maybe assembled is a better word? Smartphone components come from around the world and not just China.
Part of the reason other phones are cheaper is because you're the product. They're collecting data and selling it. If you don't want this you're going to have to pay more.
other phones are cheaper mostly due to economies of scale, though. like, idk, china makes a few million phones at once, while in europe they make, what, a few thousand phones at once?
Volla runs Ubuntu Touch.
it seems there are two OS options, and it can even dual boot
They are all so fucking huge! Can't anyone make a good <= 6" Phone anymore?
Seriously, I want a phone that I can hold in one hand, and my thumb can reach the entirety of the screen. My current phone is so bulky and heavy, I can barely reach half the screen with my thumb.
Have you looked at Sony? Their phones used to be more narrow, iirc.
I haven't, do you have any specific recommendations? These Xperias seem just as big, if not bigger, than the phone I currently have. And I don't know if narrower is necessarily the solution to my problem either, I know we live in a 16:9 world, but I kind of just want a square phone.
Are you Donald Trump?
Unfortunately(?) no, if I was I'd be able to afford a convenient micro sized phone. Or I'd just demand some tech company make it for me.
Yea 6 inch is like the limit of a good sized phone for me. Phablets have gone too far.
Unfortunately not. I really looked.
My criteria are:
I ended up with a bigger phone than I wanted. A Nokia XR21 which will last me until the updates end.
I recommend the "Quick Cursor". It lets me use a larger phone one handed.
I miss the 4-5" smart phones. A HTC Desire was the perfect size and form factor for me. It's not been beaten yet.
I need to buy a new phone and my criteria is basically yours, plus having a good camera. I would go for the FP6 but as I was checking a review video, the camera is not very good... Do you have by any chance any recommendations?
I'd look at HMD fusion if I were buying now and look for the business edition with longer update support and more RAM.
My Nokia was made by HMD. It's been great and will be for a while longer as it's got plenty of support.
You can get an "outfit" (case) with a built in ring light for the 108MP camera which I definitely don't need. The "outfit" system is basically the phone has a set of pins on the back that allow custom hardware extensions built into to the case.
The HMDs have got to the point I could repair them or replace the battery without worrying about a heat pad and glue. That's a big selling point.
This was announced the other day and might interest you (it's American): https://www.clicksphone.com/en/communicator
Unihertz Jelly Star!
Granted, I'm not certain how you'd define "good." I got one just to play music on, and it might well have become my regular daily phone, but the camera isn't quite what I would want. But it's so small!
Yeah, sounds pretty nice. But as you guessed, my definition of "good" includes official Lineageos support or similar, which it does not seem to have. Or has someone tried a GSI rom with it?
The FP6 is only marginally larger (6.3") and actually "feels" fairly compact, if that makes sense. Recently switched to one from a FP3 (5.6") without any issues and without having to adjust anything about how I use it.
A subjective matter, surely. Currently I have a Samsung S10 at 6.1" and I find it uncomfortably big at times. If you compare the FP6 with the FP3, they don't actually differ in body size that much because the FP3 had a way lower screen-to-body ratio, therefore they might seem very similar when holding in hand. With phones nowadays mostly having that huge screen-to-body ratio, bigger screens are one the one hand easier to fit in a smaller device, but at the other hand, the phones themselves also seem to get bigger and bigger. Try going on the lineageos device overview site and filter for phones in the last 5 years under 6", that's what i mean.
Yea totally agree, but I guess that’s just the norm…. That’s why I’m “stuck” with the iPhone Mini.
Wait what? Jolla? Not only does that company exist, they are also making phones again? Really wasn't expecting to see that name ever again.
I'll pick Jolla. I hope their new phone will be good.
Fairphone has an atrocious update policy. They do not care for security.
I highly recommend the e/os for the fairphones. Security wise it's really great! And with the installer not that hard to install (imo)
It’s more private than the Android version it ships with but not more secure
Usually this isn’t an issue though, depends on your threat model of course
Doesn't seem very secure to me: https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm
I bought a fairphone 6 recently. It works as you would expect any phone to work with no noticeable downsides.
I paid extra to have /e/OS preinstalled. I could have bought the android version and upgraded it myself, but I wanted to support open source development. I want to try Ubuntu touch, but it hasn't been updated for the fairphone 6 yet.
I can't use any banking apps on /e/OS by default, but that's because the apps require google play services for "security". Enabling these services is possible, but would defeat the purpose of getting the phone to de-google. Bank websites still work, just slightly less convenient.
I dislike the case. It leaves more of the phone exposed than I would like. It does seem to protect the phone from most drops though.
I'm still disappointed by the lack of headphone jack, but I hate Google more.
I was surprised that my favourite feature became the hardware switch. I rebound it to the torch. For moments when you want a light for just a few seconds, it's so much more convenient.
Could you download Google play, download the banking apps and then delete Google play? Does it matter to have Google play if you only use it for a few apps?
Not only the play store is needed. You need to install an special package with the whole of Google services, often while in recovery/download mode.
But, to answer/illustrate your question, as a matter of fact, you can install Play store apps even without Play store. Aurora store is an app that connects to the Google servers too get you the very same apks. That's when you realize, after installed the banking app, that it starts bitching about the Google services missing. "This app was designed to run with Google Play Services, and cannot operate without it". And poof, it auto closes in your face.
We need to demand from our banks that they run without Google or Apple. Maybe there are banks who do?
Google is the one reassuring them that this way their banking app won't be tampered with by anyone. It's how they convinced them to trust the Google/Apple in the first place. That's why they moved away from physical tokens and the like, because the trusted agent is now Google. I'd rather go back to tokens and a webpage I could use from the phone, TBH, but that's almost a non starter these days.
Google Play and Google Play Services are separate things. Google Play allows you to download apps, whereas Google Play Services provides the foundation that most apps are built to run on top of.
You can download apps from google play or equivalent stores, but google play services is built into the device.
The de-googled version of play services is microG. It provides many of the same API services for most apps, but can't do the security things that banking apps request.
But is it a problem if an app is run on google services? Like does google have access to your bank data? Do they get access to other data by having it on your phone?
They get access to A LOT of what that app does. Moreover, through Google services, a lot of ad libraries can get access to a list of all your installed apps, without even asking or informing you.
Thanks for sharing!
the only problem I have is that I cannot install my banking app 🫤
Is your banking app iOS only? Sounds like you need a new bank.
FYI a lot of bank apps require Google attestation which community android roms don’t have.
No need to be so demeaning about it. Extra so when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
I just use Firefox on Linux for online banking
That won't work for BankID in Sweden as it doesn’t have a web version. BankID is an electronic ID app so entrenched in everyday life you need it multiple times a day around here.
For the Danish equivalent (MitID) I just ordered an OTC keyring from their site. You can also keep an instance on an old phone if you really want a backup.
Having a bank app on your phone is anyway not the apex of data security. For the amount of times I use it in a week, desktop only use is fine.
That’s what I thought until my bank announced that they will be phasing out the code booklets and replacing them with a mobile app. Good luck trying to log in without a phone app.
In Denmark, and I bet not only here, these alternatives are required by law due to accessibility concerns.
A bank would go bankrupt here if they only had an ios app.
If one of these phones runs GrapheneOS, I would be interested.
Maybe not what you're looking for, but: https://shop.nitrokey.com/ sells Pixels with Graphene and disconnected sensors, and they're European
holy shit, thats expensive for the 30 minutes it takes to install grapheneOS. with their web interface i would even trust my parents to not fuck up the installation of graphene.
and if i had a threat model which involves disoldering sensors, microphones, etc i wouldnt trust them as a source. not because nitrokey is untrustworthy. just because atleast in my mind almost nobody is trustworthy enough.
edit: just to be clear, no shade towards nitrokey. i just dont see the targeted customer base.
Is that another way of saying you won't be interested?
Graphene only support Google Pixel phones, so it disqualifies anything else.
Sadly yes.
I'm really in no hurry to give Google ever money again. But whenever my current Pixel irrepairably dies i will probably just get another used Pixel and flash Graphene on it. I can really get behind the spirit to get european made phones instead. But atleast for now they all come with too much compromises in one way or another.
GrapheneOS is always looking out for a potential phone they can migrate to, since Google has stopped publishing the device trees for the Pixels. While they currently support the Pixels anyway, it is a long term goal for them to be on an independent platform.
Sounds like they should support those phones then. I don't see reason they would block device trees.
graphene currently doesnt exist outside pixels.
I just wish there was a way to get the Fairphone in the U.S. I love the repairability aspect and I already use LineageOS as my main OS to keep my devices as long as possible. I also have access to a 3D printer to build accessories and parts for them too.
A good idea if you can't buy Euro is to buy used and flash LineageOS if your device is supported. I'm using a Pixel 4a 5G as my driver with LineageOS since I know how to repair it and I have easy access to parts for them. (Thanks to buying bulk parts from local offices near me that used them.)
Pretty sure Murena (the guys behind /e/os) sell it in the US.
I don't know who Murena is, but I appreciate you sharing this with me! I will definitely look into them! Do they just go by Murena or do they have a Merchant front with a different name?
Murena is the name of the company. Here's a link to their US site: https://murena.com/america/products/smartphones/?wcpbc-manual-country=US
Well, I suppose that you can order one via international delivery company straight from a manufacturer/seller. It may be more expensive and longer to wait but totally possible.
I thought about doing it, but the prices for parts and importing them was my reasoning to stop because of the tariffs and the already high price of the product. But I might give it a go once I run out of parts for my Pixel 4A 5g or the LineageOS maintainer stops working on it.
Isn't HMD like Finnish
HMD is Chinese but owns a lot of former Nokia intellectual property that was related to is phones. (NOKIA had a lot of other business assets that they didn't buy)
They are headquartered in Finland
HMD is founded by a former Nokia exec called Jean-Francois Baril. A French man. And the company is operated out of Finland. So if HMD is Chinese, because they manufacture in China, then every phone maker is Chinese.
I may be missing it, but I see no evidence that they are Chinese, other than using Foxconn manufacturing.
I just want a dumbphone with a decent camera
Won’t happen. You can always make a smartphone dumber, but you can’t make a dumb phone smarter. Also good smartphone cameras require decent SOCs
Unfortunately GrapheneOS only supports Pixels.
Buy them used to prevent the money from going to Google and donate the savings to Graphene.
Or, simply don't create value for used pixel devices by not buying them. Buying used phones of one brand will make it's resell value for up. People like new phones with a good resell value, people buy those phones. Buying a used pixel gives money to Google.
Hey Europe, what about you sign that partnership with Mercosul so I can buy you damn stuff without having to pay 100% taxes on the price to import?
Here’s hoping, Brazil and Europe deserve to succeed!
Is it really 100%?! How much to import from the US? And China?
Yep, I took from the official gov.br website, here is the link: https://www.gov.br/receitafederal/pt-br/assuntos/aduana-e-comercio-exterior/manuais/remessas-postal-e-expressa/calculadora-versao-iii/calculadora.html
About the countries: Every country has this taxes to import, except from deals in certains products.
That why we want the deal with EU so we can buy tecnology without this shit, and sell our goods as well to get rid of depending from USA
I really want a FairPhone with e/os but can't justify buying a second phone hahaha
I have an iPhone that I use for my job - got it from my employer as well so it's basically a free phone. Personally, if it wasn't for my job, I'd delete all "social" media (IG and the likes), but it's the main part of my job (I work in online communications). Still would love a second, more privacy-based, personal phone, but doesn't feel like a possibility atm. Costs money as well!
Putting personal information on a work phone is a risky behavior. Most company phones are setup to give the company control over and access to everything on the phone.
Personally, I would never use a company phone for anything that isn’t for work.
Depends on what kind of company you work at. Most companies I know would just be: you need a phone, go buy one and give us a receipt.
Not all companies are big tech, and most companies likely can not afford the added cost of spying on employees.
Good thing is that I went to the store and bought it myself with the company card. My phone has never been in their possession nor are they monitoring what I do on it or on my pc (because same thing there)
Any of them run Linux or fully non-google android?
Jolla's Sailfish is Linux.
Ubuntu touch supports Volla
I bought the fairphone with Murena /e/OS already installed. I can't be happier with this choice.
FP6 was planned to have CalyxOS available but CalyxOS got kinda fucked over when 4 of their major team left. It may come one day though. You can use iodeOS but its basically lineage with bootloader locking
Fairphone has postmarket os support.
Only FP4 has decent support. Newer models have broken features, like WiFi and audio.
This is a REALLY IMPORTANT detail.
Let's not forget Crosscall. It's a french brand specializing in durable phones designed for outdoor.
I have a nothing phone 3 and very happy with it, it does everything you really want a smartphone to do, and looks stylish (imo) and has a really slick UI.
Downsides are camera is not good in low light and they push the AI stuff too hard.
And I'm not sure it quite justified the price tags when comparing it to Chinese or Samsung phones at a similar spec, but it's not way off and for me was easy to justify a slightly higher price tag for a British based design company and better repairability/rights as well as some cool features and looks.
But the price point is the one thing all these 3rd party phones suffer from, you either have to make a proper budget phone, or try and make a flagship, but will cost 20% more than a Samsung because of scale costs.
Nothing does everything. Huh
Shiftphone is a German alternative to Fairphone
does anybody have experience with the Jolla C2 Community Phone?
the price is listed as 285€, which is about the maximum i'd be willing to pay for a phone. does the device work well? does it run smoothly? does the OS work well enough? (it's some custom linux-based OS with android app compatibility, they write on their website)
I had a Fairphone 3, but ran into a lot of problems with the phone suddenly shutting down on its own. I hadn't fiddled with it at all, and I couldn't find much advice apart from "Try pulling it apart, cleaning it, and putting it back together again".
I really love the concept though, but I'm worried my bank and government identification won't work on Fairphone now.
Instead of being worried about compatibility, read about experiences and lists. It depends on the OS
Fairphone runs proprietary Android by default, with a locked bootloader. There should be zero issues why banks should block this, as they dont actually care about security
Is there any non google or apple phone projection functionality for cars? Or contactless payment platform?
These a big barriers, I did want the the nothing phone but the reviews were a bit off.
Which has the best camera?
Volla Quintus best!
I got a refurbished pixel for gOS, but I keep procrastinating installing it 😭.
barely have the time
after weeks I finally did it. my main anxiety is that I need some banking apps (they work now)
I didn't realise it was European, but I bought a Nothing mainly because it was one of the few options with an unlockable bootloader. I'm going stock this time, but at least I'll have the option to unlock it if I change my mind later.
Nokia is still finish right?
Yes it is!
I was unsure, I thought maybe they were bought.
It's so sad they didn't cought up with the smartphone development, their out-of-the-box thinking and daring designs is what we miss in the current market. They used to be the market leaders.
Now it's all glass planks with a bunch of cameras, biggest difference is the amount of bloatware pre-installed and the amount of AI slop integration.
We need the Nokia vision back!
I think only the brand is. Phone manufacturing was sold a few times.
Way beyond what I would consider spending on a phone. Is there anything more like £50? Or tablet tbh, can use a free phone with PAYG so it only does calls/SMS, then use a tablet instead.
Think I am better off looking for second hand stuff tbh. Currently using some fire tablet I got for £15. It's a little slow at times and often runs out of memory so maybe doubling the RAM would be worth it if it isn't too pricey.
Why are you using a fire tablet ? Why go throught that pain voluntarily?
Other than being a little slow, what pain? It was £15 second hand but unused. I just install stuff from APKs or f-droid. Mainly use: Web browser, VLC, steamlink, comaps and termux.
Thanks to this post I bought Nothing Phone 3. Awesome. Thanks!
Thank you for directing your money to where your values are!
The Volla Quintus appears to be almost identical, to the Daria Bond that is sold in the UAE. Specs look identical from what I could see and the only difference I can make out are very minor design changes in the back side shell. Volla's marketing and statements are pretty misleading about that. I am not saying they should not work with Chinese OEMs but they create the impression there was meaningful customisation going on from their side, maybe there was but it looks very much off the shelf from an OEM model.
At the same time Volla also sells Plinius. It is actually a stronger phone, for a lower price than the Quintus but looks very much like the strongest Gigaset phone (which is lower mid-range), so should be actually manufactured in Germany (as much as any phone in Europe could possibly be I think). It is bewildering that they don't put the Gigaset model square and centre.
Iirc CMF is going to India
But do forget the CMF buds and watch. Both suck ass. Watch doesn't do anything it claims it does. The buds run out of battery charges in just over a year.
I had the original buds. Good luck with yours. Since mine are now e-waste I figured my next pair should have replaceable batteries. Went with fairfone buds, and they have very outdated Bluetooth so i cant watch videos with synced audio. But at least I can in theory have them for the rest of my life...as long as they keep selling the batteries which are proprietary but look off the shelf. .... I have not had good luck as far as Bluetooth buds are concerned.
I've had a Nothing Phone 3 for just over a month running google-free (mostly FOSS apps or loading from Aurora, F-Droid etc) and I love it. Easily the best camera on a phone I have ever owned.
No phone could ever be worth more than $200. Change my mind.
Another 100 years of inflation will make a gumball cost more than that...
You must be good at eyeing deals in the used market.
If you need a basic smartphone and aren't too picky, then you can get unlocked new for that.
A fair number of Moto G models go unlocked, new for under $200.
What is so European about Lenovo?
The parent comment was "no phone", which I read to mean that buying EU wouldn't be worth it for the premium.
Ah yeah, didn't quite catch that.
I think buying used is more for using European mobile Linux.
No. In the big chain store right across the road from me, there's a bunch of brand new Xiaomis, Realmes, Samsungs and Motorollas for as low as $70. Admittedly the cheapest ones are a complete e-waste, but the ones in $150-200 range are perfectly capable of doing anything you'd need a phone to do for the next 3-5 years. Phones have became an appliance these days, you don't really need to buy the best microwave in the market every year, just buy the second cheapest when previous breaks after a decade and it'll be just as fine. Same with phones, the only real differences I see in top-end vs budget phones is like just a slightly faster cpu, slightly better displays, slightly better cameras and wireless charging. But that's to me sounds like a 900W microwave with moisture sensor and app control versus a 800W one without any any of that, but at 4X the price difference.
This of course doesn't apply if you're like playing competitive Fortnite or PUBG on the phone or something, to which I would say: 1) WHY? get a console, ffs, or better yet, a proper gaming pc, and 2) you're not really buying a phone at this point, but a handheld console that just happens to fill that role as well. Same goes if you buy Apple for things locked in their ecosystem.
PS. And yeah, nothing of it has any relation to Europe, it just happens that 3 out of 4 phones in that image are way overpriced for what they're worth.
Buy whatever and flash grapheneOS on it.
Sure, buy american hardware to flash an operating system based on an american operating system made by an american mega-corp. (yes, graphene OS only works on google pixels afaik) You understood the assignment perfectly on this european community, congrats.
Only Pixels support it
🤦
♿
Too deep in the Apple ecosystem and too happy about it. Even though I am very curious about the Fairphone, I know that I will be annoyed by an isolated piece of equipment.
I like apple's stuff too, but don't let the fact that it all works so well convince you apple is a good company. Apple is evil in many ways, from how they treat the factory workers to how they treat their customers. They give you high quality but they overcharge you while they take your freedom. If they wanted to they could have designed an ecosystem that let's you add a product made by another company, but they don't do that because they rather suck you dry.
I know all of that. I also use a car, even though it contributes to climate change. I also eat fried potatoes, even though they are carcinogenic. I drink whiskey and rum, even though ethanol is carcinogenic, too.
I am not proud of it. But I am just trying to survive somehow.
I know the struggle.
Is this real? Names are kinda made up
Aren't all names kinda made up?
Some are discovered.
Like Keanu's name was discovered by explorers who found his sarcophagus, and upon opening it, Keanu sat up and said, "Hi, I'm Keanu, could you close the lid for 5 more minutes, then give me loke 10 minutes to shave and get dressed--is black still in style?--then we can hang out." And then he was ready to hang out just 8 minutes later because he couldn't get back to sleep, was a pro at competitive level shaving, and black was still in style. When asked where his name came from, Keanu just shrugged and said it was already here when he arrived and that it's up to everyone to decide for themselves where his name came from.
Technically - yes. But claiming that in the current context is silly.
Like.. what I mean is pretty clear
Dude, sit down, I have something to tell you about your name
A phone name Vivalapivo would fit this list
If you never heard of terms like Samsung, Google, Nokia you would also think those are funny made up names