4 reasons Plex is turning into the thing it replaced
https://www.androidauthority.com/plex-restrictions-reasons-to-switch-3622348/Open linkView original on lemmy.world559
Comments222https://www.androidauthority.com/plex-restrictions-reasons-to-switch-3622348/Open linkView original on lemmy.world
Jellyfin is great :D
Does jellyfin have an easy way for remote streaming? I have a couple dozen people on my Plex server, most not very tech savvy, so setting up tailscale and running remote that way isn't an option. I have a Plex pass so I haven't been screwed by Plex yet, so I'm not rushing to get out, but I could see myself running both.
Yes-ish, it's harder for you than the users. But you will have to secure a URL and they will have to remember that URL. Also there's some security issues with some unsecured endpoints on Jellyfin. That said I have mine out there exposed to the net and am comfortable enough with it.
I already have to expose my Plex Media Server with a Tailscsle funnel (for IPv4 only) for IPv6 I use my Synology NAS reverse proxy which can be accessed globally.
I have been maining this setup for years now that I forgot if I can access my PMS outside without either those solutions lol (I am GGNATED but IPv6 works fine as stated).
The main thing here is that I don't need my users to do anything, they just open the app and access it, no need to remember IPs/URLs or install VPNs to my server... Is that possible with Jellyfin as well?
Yes you can do the same thing for Jellyfin. I use Synology ddns and setup subdomain in reverse proxy to jellyfin port. For tailscale, I previously use this but needs to add the jellyfin port after the tailscale IP.
No, there's not centralized host server to connect your users with your server. They need a fixed IP or URL to access your server from outside your network.
So how do they access from, let's say a Smart TV/Android TV device?
Jellyfin apps ask you for three things in order to login: URL, username, password.
Thanks, that clears everything up for me...
Now if you could set that URL from the server itself and not the client apps... Certainly I don't think that's an impossible task.
I have mine behind a caddy reverse proxy that forces https. I think that handles most sniffing concerns
no, tailscale is still the easiest option.
Bummer... unfortunately, that's a deal breaker for me to completely drop Plex. Maybe someday.
Can you fly out to my MIL every time her router breaks and fix it for her?
Edit: holy shit, your edits are insane
I swear every single Plex related thread has the same Jellyfin fanatics coming in. Same energy as “my MIL has trouble with her computer” “just install Linux bro!” comments.
Still better than the army of Plex fanboys that all claim to have dozens of senior citizens streaming from their Plex server.
Yeah that's totally how it works. 👍
e: lots of 🤡 in here
So I don't get it, I have mine up with a domain without tsilscale.. The clients are quite happy wherever. I don't even see that much "crawling" traffic that goes to the domain, most just hit the server by ip and get a static 401 page that the "default" site is hard coded to give out.
At some point, somewhere on the internet, someone authoritatively claimed that tailscale is the one and only acceptable solution to getting your jellyfin server outside your LAN and it just kind of took root. nginx has worked perfectly fine for me.
I'm so confused why so many people think a VPN is the best solution. It's easy to implement, but hardly optimal, and certainly not the only solution
You could just get a domain and set up a reverse proxy. Or use Cloudflare tunnels.
All possible, but currently I have lifetime Plex pass and just need to share with people I want to share with. No extra config. Once Jellyfin can do that or something similar, I'll look at jumping ship. Until then, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
Fair enough. I doubt Jellyfin will ever offer something like that. Its designed to be completely self hosted and not rely on a central server, which I dont see changing.
Once Jellyfin does that then it'll be time to look at jumping ship to something else, because that'll be the indication that Jellyfin is going down the same road as Plex.
The first one, yes. That's what I do. But IIRC hosting media via cloudflare tunnels goes against the TOC and they reserve the right to ban users over it
They changed their TOC a while ago, the only thing they have in there now is boiler plate stuff about not hosting pirated content.
https://www.cloudflare.com/en-gb/terms/
You agree not to, and not to allow third parties to use the Services to ... post, transmit, store or link to any files, materials, data, text, audio, video, images or other content that infringe on any person’s intellectual property rights or that are otherwise unlawful;I just set up a cache rule to ignore my jellyfin subdomain and they won't ever care about me and my half dozen users.
Oh that's good news! I really only use it for myself, so that sounds like I can stream my music without worrying
I moved away from plex as well. I do have remote access but had to set up Tailscale on the accounts that access it. It’s a bit of a hassle initially but works well.
I set mine up with HAProxy for TLS offloading and ACME for the server cert. Restrict your access to just your country/region by GeoIP and you are pretty good to go.
I'd love Jellyfin if not for their incredibly infuriating seek behaviour. Why do I have to press play to start the video again?
In case this helps, for me when I use it on Android TV with said TV's remote, the arrow buttons on the direction pad for anything require pressing play/OK button after. But if I use the fast forward buttons, it does seek and then just keeps playing.
For me I just want a fast forward button. They have something they call fast forward, but it seeks instead.
Except the sync / group watch feature is pretty broken which makes me sad
Agreed! I stayed with Plex for a long time because Jellyfin had a rough time with live TV (antenna) and I already had a PlexPass because of a sale a long time ago. Now Plex is only still running because I love Plexamp.
Dude, yeah. Plexamp had me keeping my server up far longer than I should have.
Symphonium is awesome. Still looking for a nice desktop alternative to Plexamp, which I can't stand for its interface on desktop.
The way you switch between two servers you own is more than inconvenient; it's what keeps Plex in my life.I wish things would change because everything else is better.
Thats how I describe Jellyfin, it works fine, its just inconvenient to use.
That's why I use Emby. Paid for lifetime within a day of switch from Plex (which I also have has lifetime for like a decade) because it has a ton of plugins that have been useful and has a cloud server switch function.
Just to think of replacing the mount points in the docker container from Plex to Jellyfin (in order for it to read my Riven and Decypharr symlinks) scares me... Mostly because after I finish a docker project my mind seems to go blank lol.
At least they still kinda honour the Plex Pass lifetime users...
Yeah I know, but Jellyfin is gonna be around when they stop doing this... I can hold a little longer 😁
For the love, as a Plex alternative, they don’t even have a native app on all major tv stores. It should be a P1 feature. I would throw money at them if they get Apple TV support. Right now, there are no functional apps running on the latest Apple TV OS.
Are you really bitching this hard about a completely free and open source project?
It's not technology or finances that kill most FOSS projects and burn out the devs. It's this kind of shitty entitled unappreciative demanding attitude from users.
As others have pointed out, there are fully functional and good quality frontends available, such as Swiftfin.
I maintain open source projects too, and I fully understand the burnout, the pressure from supporters and such. What I was saying is they can do better from a project management perspective. Otherwise I love their work :3
Swiftfin is buggy atm, like my other comment.
Then you should know better than most that your wording and approach matters.
I haven't used apple tv in a few years, but like, swiftfin worked just fine for me??
Swiftfin?
For me the audio is desynced and subtitles are completely broken. :(
Oh weird. I would guess a transcoding issue, maybe double check those settings to make sure you have the right config for your hardware.
Theres also Infuse, its a video player that supports jellyfin, but I think some features are behind a premium purchase.
Yeah. The entire jellyfin support is behind subscription.
I believe Infuse has Jellyfin support on Apple TV. But they want like £100 for a lifetime license or £2 a month / £13 a year.
Yeaaaaaaaah, I mean it’s a good app, but I don’t know if it justifies a $100 license.
No, it’s not.
Here’s what you all sound like every time this comes up.
No shot you linked to fucking sora
Playing devil's advocate, I understand one point of pressure: Plex doesn’t want to be perceived as a “piracy app.”
See: Kodi. https://kodi.expert/kodi-news/mpaa-warns-increasing-kodi-abuse-poses-greater-video-piracy-risk/
To be blunt, that’s a huge chunk of their userbase. And they run the risk of being legally pounded to dust once that image takes hold.
So how do they avoid that? Add a bunch of other stuff, for plausible deniability. And it seems to have worked, as the anti-piracy gods haven’t singled them out like they have past software projects.
To be clear, I'm not excusing Plex. But I can sympathize.
I wish more people understood this perspective
It's really nice of them to fight the good fight while I use Jellyfin instead.
You may (half) joke, but MPAA attention on Jellyfin would suck.
I'd like to call this "the Ubuntu buffer".
Maybe a dumb question: What exactly could go wrong? Has the MPAA done anything to stifle Kodi?
https://www.comparitech.com/kodi/kodi-piracy-decline/
https://www.digital-digest.com/news-64644-Netflix-Amazon-Join-Forces-with-the-MPAA-to-Sue-Kodi-Box-Maker.html
And this is with Kodi furiously distancing itself from pirates at the time.
Attacks don’t have to be direct. Though they absolutely can be, too.
Which doesn’t have half the features and crap security compared to Plex/Emby.
The security thing is ironic because my personal Jellyfin server (nor anything else on it) has been hacked, but Plex itself has had their database leaked recently. It's actually the main reason I switched because I don't like their auth servers being a giant common target. (Also, technically it theoretically means Plex employees can just let themselves in to people's private servers)
From their blog post about it:
The passwords were hashed and, I'm inferring from their language, salted per-user as well. Assuming a reasonable length password (complexity doesn't matter much here, what we want is entropy) it would take a conventional (i.e. not quantum) computer tens to hundreds of millions of years to crack one user's password.
Yeah, I'm not really worried about it. I changed my password and moved on. It's just that hackers have every reason to try and exploit Plex, while individual servers are hardly worth someone's time and effort to go after when the payoff is maybe 1-2 usernames and emails
Simply not true. There is no person out there deciding every fry is too small. They just pick an exploit and send some bots after it. Every target is a good target because every target is a platform for more. It's currency. The discrimination happens at the userbase level which is why jellyfin will always be safe. Kidding 😂
And I’ve never been attacked by a bear while wearing my goose feather headdress.
Call it survivorship/selection bias if you want, but basically every hack I've been exposed to is from centralized servers getting exploited that serve millions of people. Plex, along with any other public facing service with lots of users, receives targeted attacks constantly. All my server receives is automated bots looking for 10-year-old Wordpress .php exploits (I don't even run php on my server).
There is that but it’s primarily that they’ve taken over 40 million dollars of venture capital. They are almost certainly under immense pressure to turn profitable asap and converting lifetime pass users into revenue streams somehow, converting new users into SaaS, etc are going to be things they pursue more aggressively.
Don’t take the devils money if you don’t want the devils stipulations
They've taken other measures as well. Nobody knows the details besides them, but they blocked an entire cloud provider called Hetzner because too many people were using it for pirate Plex servers. They absolutely have to maintain the image of being legitimate like you said.
Sure, apart from charging for remote access.
That serves the purpose too. It’s harder to pin Plex as an “illegal distribution service” when you have to pay for access. Either the streamer or “distributor” can’t be very anonymous, which makes large scale sharing impractical.
On the other hand, the more money they squeeze out, the more they risk appearing as if they “make money from piracy,” which is exactly how you get the MPAA’s attention.
Remote access via their servers.
I admit I’m very out of the loop, but my understanding is that remote access via their servers is the only supported remote viewing solution? Anything else is a “hack” so to speak.
If you have a static IP, or dynamic DNS set up, you can set up your own remote access with a reverse proxy like nginx. The nice thing is I get to use my own SSL certificate and all the actual streaming goes directly to my server, not through their proxies.
The only "hacky" part about it is that the Admin dashboard shows "Not available outside your network", even though everything works perfectly.
Everything else is "a hack" in the sense that it is literally just the way to get Jellyfin working outside your network too.
It's really not. They handle authentication but then everything is sent to your server.
Dynamic DNS does cost money. But not $8 a month. Development also costs money which falls under the $8 a month, but really not my problem, which is why I use Jellyfin. I used to run Plex off of my Nvidia shield, which was a cool gateway drug to self hosting and I'm grateful to them for that, but I like handling the technical stuff myself.
The writing was on the wall when they started getting American VC money.
American VC culture is anthenema to truly user focused products.
If jellyfin was easier to use and had the same options as Plex, id switch over. But I'll keep my Plex lifetime pass as long as I can until they make all lifetime passes null in the next 2 years and make us all pay monthly.
Just guessing here, but I think it just might.
Individual user accounts, so multiple people can use the same device without needing to log into a new account each time. For example, User A watches a show on the TV. Then User B opens the TV, and has to log in to be able to access their own watch history. Then User A returns, and has to log back into their account.
Braindead remote access. I use a reverse proxy so it’s not a need for me, but plenty of people don’t understand how to properly set something like that up.
Single Sign On. It flies in the face of what Jellyfin stands for, because it would require a centralized authentication server that everyone’s servers phone home to. Just like Plex. With Plex, you log into one account, and can see all of your available servers, because they’re all tied to the same account. With Jellyfin, every server requires its own authentication, because there is no central server to manage all of the “Account XYZ has access to libraries A, B, and C” stuff. If I want to watch something, I can’t easily just search all of my servers at once; I need to individually log into and search each one to see if it has the content I want to watch.
not sure your logic here. Why would Jellyfin have the same features as Jellyfin?
3 Things stop from using jellyfin 100% of the time.
TV tuner is janky and loading a guide for local channels is garbage. I like watching the morning local news and jellyfin just does not cut it.
I want sub accounts. They used to have something similar but took it out for security reasons. I want to log all my TVs into one account but then have each user select their profile. So I can easily have a restricted profile for say kids then another for my parents then one for me then one for SO under the same roof. It will track each persons watched profile so when someone watches ahead it doesn't mess with someone else's.
On the same note, controller/ HTPC remote configs feel janky. I know its there but its not a smooth and easy as Plex. This goes along with above for anyone who says just make another account. You try entering half decent passwords with small HTPC remotes or controllers. Every time you go to watch TV.
If they could fix these things I would ditch Plex all the way. But as it stands I use Plex for my TV and jellyfin for my phones, tablets, PC.
You can already do number 2 (with some restrictions). You have to set up your networking tab correctly, use blank passwords, and uncheck "allow remote connections" for the "local" accounts. i have things set up so that external users are forced to log in and local users just pick a profile. If you also add your external users' IP addresses to the LAN Networks box, they'll be treated as an internal user too (though how you keep that up to date is a bit more challenging). It's not precisely the Netflix experience but it works well enough for us
I'll have to look into that. Last I remember they removed that and local simple pin. Because it could be used to bypass security even from outside network. You are running current version right?
Ya - or close enough (10.11.3). My LAN networks are my server and workstation subnets (both /24s) and my external NAT (my public ip). I also have my reverse proxy address (from jellyfin's perspective) in my known proxies. From there, my external users are set to allow remote connections, have passwords set, and are set to "hide this user from login screens" and my internal users are set to NOT allow remote connections and to NOT hide from login screens. After that, i just use my public dns for every device whether it's internal or external and call it a day
I DVR local stuff with Plex and play it back in Jellyfin.
I do that sometimes but I like the morning news and I feel it should be current so not a great solution for me. Jellyfin just needs a bit more polish. Its great I like it but also at the same rate the appear to fix some things like their security bugs I'm not going to hold my breath. I do hope they push through though like Immich.
Jellyfin has local channels? Why don't you just watch local channels?
Does plex have local channels? Seems like that is a use case that doesnt make any sense to me.
In the US there is still a thing ad broadcast TV. Stick a TV antenna up in the air, free TV. Get a tuner card for PC and TV for your PC before streaming was ever a thing. Used it on my laptop when I traveled more. But with setting it up in jellyfin it works but is janky and needs polishing, and setting it up to download the TV guide is kinda a nightmare. With Plex life pass ( this is the feature that made me get it and dropping Comcast cable TV) it just works auto scans for channels and auto downloads TV guide, easy to flip throughout channels even my mom does it.
it is proprietary software behind a paywall... need i say more?
Yeah, their survey is missing the "never used Plex because I saw this coming a mile away" option.
Dude, I think your client broke.
I'm kind of surprised Lemmy allows duplicate comments like Reddit. Super easy to prevent the issue, because there really isn't a case where a person would want to post the same comment multiple times
laughs in Jellyfin
I want to like jellyfin, but it's authentication sucks
So does a lot of the rest of it.
Capitalism.
Yeah, only one reason. It's always capitalism.
Enshitification has entered the chat
One reason: It's not FOSS, and because of that, it's not protected from the Capitalist profit motive that's always pushing the creators/owners towards enshitification.
The same forces act upon FOSS too, but the difference is that FOSS has structural immunity built into it. If the software enshitifies, it can be forked and maintained by a community that values software freedom.
We've seen it happen time and again. Terraform, CentOS, RHEL, The Xen Hypervisor, etc. When companies try to take freedom away from FOSS, they fail, because their users and maintainers are empowered by FOSS licenses (especially restrictive ones like the GPL) and can fight back.
With proprietary software, the users are powerless, only the owners have control.
Don't trust promises, good intentions, or corporate slogans. Trust free software and the open ecosystems they thrive in.
PS, Jellyfin is amazing ❤️
I just need Jellyfin to fix their subtitles issues on Apple TV and I'll be all set. Swiftfin needs some work yet, though I'm told the fix is in the pipeline for release soon^(TM) (probably by Q1 next year?).
I'm going to call it like I saw it, a very long time ago.
You have a product that is basically purpose built to make data hoarding and piracy practical, yet it requires a login with a central service. I don't care what justification anyone thinks makes that worthwhile or even a good compromise. Signaling to any corporate entity that you're in possession of such a thing is a bad idea to begin with. They shouldn't even know you exist. That information, along with anything else you do with the product is compromising to you and can be sold for money if aggregated with everyone else's data.
If you find this rant out of place in our modern world, I'd like to point to the concept of shifting baselines. This didn't used to be normal and nothing short of greed continues the behavior. The technology before this ran/runs without anyone knowing. Consider VLC, or XBMC.
Jellyfin is a complete replacement for Plex
There is only one reason. Greed.
Are all four reasons "money"?
Stopped using Plex and moved to jellyfin around 12 months ago and have never looked back
I have both but Jellyfin is not good with duplicates. Having several versions of movies in different languages just puts multiple copies of the movies in Jellyfin, with no distinction between them until you click into the details. Plex does this well with "Play version".
But Plex is worse for other reasons, on my LG TV. It's painfully slow and doesn't play the correct audio track that I select.
An mkv with multiple audio tracks would save you some storage space.
Yes, however sometimes it's easier to manage language and subtitles in a single file if space is not an issue and you often are wanting a different version. Might also have pre-burned subtitles, for which you'll need a separate video stream anyway.
This too, yes. 🎯
Not if I want/need to seed both versions. Then it's a third version I need to keep on disk for a few weeks, instead of just two. Believe me, I've had this idea too, and have remuxed several movies to save space. 👍
Fair enough, I'm mostly ripping my own discs so being a good torrent citizen isn't always top of mind.
🫡🏴☠️
Looking back at this thread. Jellyfin does let you select both versions and combine them into one. Then you can keep seeding to your heart's content.
I don't use that feature often, but have a couple movies that use it.
That's simpler and better (nondestructive) than renaming files, for sure. Still an extra step I need to take vs not having to do so.
It does it even better with "editions" support, at least for movies.
Yeah that's good too, but ultimately for a different purpose. Still great. Jellyfin have that?
The problem I have with "play version" is that you can't really control which version is the default. Also it's kind of hidden in the menu. And when you do select the version it just shows you the resolution (which is useless if you have two versions with the same resolution but different languages).
Unless some is already familiar with plex, they probably won't find your different language version. But a custom "different language" edition of the movie will show up right below the extras.
No idea.
I don't have this issue, but I agree it could be easier to see which version you are playing. I think it's supposed to be very different quality versions, so one would be like 4K, then 1080p, then maybe 720p. But when you have one English 4K and one Nordic 4K, is a 50-50 guessing game. It's easy to switch once you start playing though.
Still better than Jellyfin though, in this particular regard.
Haven't really tried it but they have support for dupes.
You just need to name them correctly (too lazy to link the docs. Just look up versions in media library)
That's what I mean. You have to rename them. Plex handles this automatically, with the same shared library. I wish Jellyfin was better at this.
Jellyfin goes by file name, Plex goes by identified movie/show. Much better.
Welll...They state in their docs how it should be.
If you deviate from it, that's on you.
And yes it'd be nice if they did it automagically but we can't have everything and I don't expect it from them honestly as that is really a very niche requirement considering it already works.
I don't understand why we need to "pin it" on someone?
It just works differently, in a way that requires more hands-on work, as opposed to no hands-on work. So it's objectively worse. That's "on me"?
It being in the docs is irrelevant in this context. It could've been there or not. But the fact that I need to do extra work as opposed to not makes Plex more comfortable in this regard, and I don't see how that's up for debate.
If Jellyfin had done it's duplication check on identified movie IDs instead of filesystem names, we would be in a different situation. But they don't, and here we are.
I'm not ragging on Jellyfin, I'm just pointing out facts. Not even an opinion piece.
That's correct.
But you chose to ignore the instructions because you are used to a different way of doing it and them you get duplicate entries.
That's it (shrug).
Why are still trying to blame this on the user, lol?
If the user has to do more work for the same result, it's a worse system. Period.
That's it. 🤷♂️
To go into more detail:
How did I choose to ignore instructions when I didn't read them in the first place? Neither system's installation instructions has this in it. You'd have to deep dive when you realize it doesn't work for one of them. Namely Jellyfin.
"Choosing" to ignore it is also a matter of definition. If I rename all my shit, I am a) duplicating lots of downloads on my system because I need to keep the original in order to seed, or b) not able to seed and lose my ability to gain more content in the first place.
Sometimes people's circumstances are different from yours, my friend.
I understand Jellyfin is better in so many other aspects, I agree with that, but do not defend one single feature which works objectively worse and pin it on the user. Don't be that person.
Same brother
There's only one reason, money.
But it's at least four $1.
Edit: It's just occurred to me that he might literally be referring to the Recommended tab on your home page - which you only have to interact with by choice.
If anyone would care to tell me where I'm being pushed towards Plex's ecosystem I'd love to understand what the flying fuck he's talkin about. The only thing I could find that could generously be called part of the Plex "ecosystem" are the social features. Does it give more "ads" if you have a free account or something? Also I've had a server for 15 years and I've never had to re-do my customization from an update.
I believe I experienced what they called "re-disable promotional content after an update." Everything was reset and my media was hidden with only their streaming options available. Similarly setting up a new Chromecast it only had their streaming content and I had to hide their content and unhide mine.
I seem to remember there being some weaselly link that would re-enable their content after it was disabled too.
Generously, they're providing more content and a way to support the development of the product through ads. But all the changes and the way they're happening show me a picture of a company with changing priorities. So I tend to agree with the sentiment of the author.
Ad supported content is their bread and butter. More users use it then run a server and they make more off of it.
I'm not sure I've ever used it, but according to Wikipedia, ad videos started in 2019, live tv is 2020, and rentals in 2024. During that time it's become more and more intrusive, now replacing your media entirely out of the box.
That means for 10 of its 16 software purchases and software subscriptions where it's bread and butter and has grown into different revenue streams. It's still software, but now it's Ad based revenue streams. Adding more and more fees. You might say it's growing into the thing it was supposed to replace, corporate cable and streaming service.
On mobile if you install Plex for the first time you're always dumped on the stupid pointless recommended page.
The writer claims that plex drives people towards recommendations even after disabling the recommended tab, that’s the part I’m trying to figure out.
You mean this part?
"Sure, you can disable a lot of features from the home page, but even the remaining bits push you toward Plex’s ecosystem with things like recommendations. And I’ve even seen people complaining about needing to re-disable promotional content after updates. It’s simply a shady business"
If so I've definitely experienced that where all of a sudden the damn tab is re-enabled by itself. And it's not even "disabled" it's just not the default selection anymore. I can still see it down there.
I wonder what causes that. The only time I've had customization reset is if I wiped the metadata during a server migration on accident, or decided to clear it intentionally.
Not for me. Before Plex I was browsing folders on my TV and I actually had to organize everything, plus find and download matching subtitles. It sucked so much.
I got into self hosting because of Plex and ran it on a 2015 Shield (both the server and the player) for ~8 years. Just moved the server to another machine this year. Still happy premium user.
I never felt comfortable with Plex, glad I've got JellyFin.
Indeed. Seems every week Plex takes some action to enshitify their service more and more.
I hate headlines like this. I’d love to hear the REASONS WHY Plex are doing all of this. But no, it’s just “4 ways in which Plex now sucks” which we all know already.
Before someone says “the reason is money” we need to ask: do the developers of Jellyfin not use money? Why won’t the same thing just happen to them too?
Before someone says “enshittification,” we need to ask: does this mean Jellyfin will soon have the same problems?
We all seem to love Jellyfin so I think we need to understand the actual reason why, or this will just continue happening.
Plex is a private company..
Plex is a private company wanting money... Jellyfin is a voluteer-drive effort
Enshitification happens to privately develop products due to greed... Jellyfin is not a private company pushing a product for profit
Back to "greed"
As predicted, a one-dimensional answer.
Let’s say they want more money: they do have a healthy software subscriptions business. How can they get more by becoming the world’s tiniest streaming service? And won’t that cannibalize their subscriptions business as the experience gets shittier and shittier?
Some actual “whys” within this would be things like (made up, but for example)
the subscriptions business is dying - less than 1% of users ever buy a pass and efforts to increase that failed for (another reason here)
streaming services are dumping cash into viewer acquisition because a war is on for dominance in that space and Pled is capitalizing on that
Plex has high overlap with gamers and are making good money on midroll gaming ads during these streams
Plex has legal concerns about facilitating piracy - this is the real reason why sync is shit and they killed watch together. They are desperately trying to pivot out of their old business before they get sued - OR all this streaming nonsense gives them a kind of fig leaf over that somehow
See, issues can be complex and interesting. Just calling them greedy is neither. How is this the greedy play, even?
Nobody outside Plex's finance department is going to have what you're looking for if those examples are anything to go by.
What it comes down to is they have $130M that investors are going to want back and all the decisions they're making now are aimed at doing so. That doesn't mean any of those decisions are good or are going to work. It didn't even mean they won't backfire and have the opposite effect.
Anyone who has knowledge of or works in any areas adjacent to any of these could provide some kind of insight. Fuck me for wanting some grownup conversation about why businesses do the things they do, instead of a circle jerk of hating on mustache-twirling villains.
Plex took a significant degree of other people’s money, to the tune of over 40 million dollars. The people who gave said money were not kickstarter funders, donators, subscribers, etc but investors, who have an expectation that plex will move the company in a direction that makes them profitable enough to not only repay the 40+ million investment, but to then earn profits for a lengthy period (possibly in perpetuity) as they are stakeholders. This is the same thing that happened to Reddit (though Reddits scale and timeline was FAR more vast), openai, Google, literally every company ever basically. Plex now has an obligation to not just continue development but to continue it in a way that maximizes growth and revenue, even if that is anti consumer.
Jellyfin on the other hand has language on their contributions page that almost discourages financial support. This is because the only financial support they accept is donations, which are clearly explained are to support the free software and give no ownership stake. The software does not generate profit and donation does not equate to any kind of investment, other than supporting continued development. Expecting any kind of return on your part (again, other than the project continuing to move forward) is foolish. Lemmy is similar, as are many other FOSS projects. Jellyfin can remain ideologically stable to its goals, and because it is free if its users feel the lead developers are straying from this they can fork it and make “new ideologically pure jellyfin” (see xmbc to plex to emby to jellyfin, or lemmys 938 forks, many of which are tweaks and some of which are because people got beef with the main devs)
Further to this, I heard Cory Doctorow talk about open source licensing being a Ulysses Pact. Basically Ulysses wanted to hear the sirens song. Normally, hearing it would drive you mad and you would wreck upon the rocks. Ulysses ordered his men to bind their ears with wax so they would not be affected by the sirens song. He also ordered them to tie him to the mast.
In the moment, he knew he would not be strong enough to resist the sirens song and because he was bound to the mast, he could not jump overboard. In the same way, people that use open source licenses on their projects are binding themselves to the open source license so that if a large temptation was to present itself (such as investors wanting to give them life changing money in exchange for mistreating their customers) they are already bound by that license and cannot break that bond.
Or they’ll do what plex did. Reminder that plex started life as a fork of xbmc/kodi for macos. When their fork showed some popularity they shifted development to various names (plex home theater). While this still contained a lot of GPL code they then spent a good deal of dev time rewriting said code to be fully closed source.
This is less discussed but also why plex is one of the most insidious and disgusting pieces of unethical software one can use. The writing is on the wall and the company is led by scumbags, sure, but people don’t talk as much about how they forked xbmc, built a huge product based on everything learned from it, and then closed everything off once they did the minimum required cover your ass moves.
What they did is legal but is it ethical? If they did it to a company like apple or Microsoft they’d get sued, that’s for damn sure. And ethically speaking I would say it’s really fucked to take all this stuff from the community: architecture, ideas, ui/ux, approaches to plugin design, data modeling, etc and build a whole company off of it, then basically give nothing back. They closed it off so they could get their bag, fuck the community that taught them so much and helped build their MVP.
What you describe is similar to the creation of jellyfin from emby though; where embys dev team suddenly decided to close source the GPL server code (a violation) and add monetization. the community rejected this, and forked the last version prior to the nonsense into what is now jellyfin.
Yeah, Jellyfin could go closed source and enshitify but up until that point, the source would be available to fork. I hope that Jellyfin doesn't go that way but if it does, I think someone would fork the project and continue developing and supporting the software.
Clearly, given Plex and Emby's history, it is a threat to Jellyfin as well.
Here you can see, what they do with the money:
https://opencollective.com/jellyfin
I never stopped using Kodi
Ah, good ol' Xbox media centre. I still have that installed on my OG Xbox.
TL;DR: $ $ $ $
Should be a full stop with "profit". All the shitty things that go with companies chasing it.
It’s going to be super funny when plex gets sued for directly profiting from piracy.
I went into no settings on Jellyfin and everything stayed sane and the same.
That's a feature I wouldnt want in mine for example.
I just want my stuff and only mine.
But hey: Everyones gotta choose their own. And if youre happy, who am I to judge.
IMO: Not the point.
Essentially the same discussion here: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/23054418
Sure, you could do it by turning 5 switches and 2 knobs but mine just does what I tell it to.
(And I don't have to pay for remote access or HWA)
Since I have a domain, I use DynDNS.
I needed it anyway so why not use it also there. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What about the limits on remote streaming unless you pay?
I purchased a lifetime sub when it was on sale
Yeah, Plex wins there - lifetime subs for Jellyfin never seem to be on sale.
If they were going to get enshittified, they should've been smarter about it to gradually introduce lock-in. The switching cost of going to Jellyfin is almost zero. Did it in an afternoon about a year ago. Ya done goofed, Plex
Plex has been off limits to me for along time. Just the fact they want to require auth with their central service for something I use for reasons rights holders would love to sue me into third world poverty over (muh Linux ISOs) is enough reason.
Them demanding that auth hook into the server makes me uneasy about what sort of metatdata they are currently, or could exfiltrate later on, should they want to or be demanded to.
Whole thing stinks of willingly being part of a honeypot.
Moved to Stremio + A debrid service. I’m good.
Its so good and you can just login on anyone else's device lol
At a glance, it looks like it requires signing up with their service, which means they can track everything I do. No, thanks. I'll stick with Jellyfin.
Just use a throwaway email. The point of the account is to sync your watch history and (most importantly), your plugins/configs, which are what do the piracy stuff for you.
Goodness, how am I supposed to store and stream more entertainment than I could watch in a lifetime now?
I use Plex for audiobooks and TV shows primarily.
The fact that you can't (or at least can't easily) scan library files from Plexamp is utterly insane to me. Especially after they made audio libraries completely unavailable on the regular Plex app.
I'll probably switch to Audiobookshelf or something else down the line.
You can scan from plexdash.
+1 for audiobookshelf, after using tools like Plex for a long time I was honestly shocked by how much more user friendly it felt. And it's a one man team! The only significant demerit is that the IOS app is stuck in test flight limbo, so you have to find another player. Though most do that already I think.
Clients suck on non plex
Serious question. I have been using the free version of plex for years and been happy with it. I have no desire for remote access and I never consume media on my phone. I just use it to watch TV shows and movies in my living room. I don't want anything more from it so I'm fine with the free version. Is there anything else I'm missing out on my not using jellyfin? I've considered it but to me it doesn't seem to be worth the effort to switch if I'm happy with the free Plex. But I'm willing to have my mind changed
It may have very well changed recently or I could be misremembering, but the reason I switched over was being unable to play certain codecs/media types (types of hdr?) over stream while converting on host.... unless I had a subscription.
Utter lunacy to want me to pay to convert on my own machine. I've since swapped to jellyfin, donated, and am happier for it (and the open source part is such an added plus).
For your use case its pretty much identical.
I prefer the plex interface slightly. But id rather use open source
I would say get to know how to use it at least so you can hit the ground running if they ruin Plex for you.
I never had issues with Plex, same use case. But when my old pc died I opted to buy the 4k ONN device and store the files on USB.
Oof I had one of those at work and they were really particular about the file formats they played. This was like 5-6 years ago tho, have they gotten better?
The USB drive has to be the right format but otherwise I've had almost no issues. Works much better than the $30 android box from china.
The thing it replaced... XBMC? O_o
Xbmc was renamed Kodi and it's still revenant. It has a totally different use case than Plex or jellyfin and there's plugins for both.
Did you mean to type 'relevant' or are you suggesting it's a zombie project?
I'm still annoyed that I spent £100 on Plex a few years ago. It seemed like a good investment at the time but I ended up never using it.
That’s more on you than Plex, though, right? Like do you get mad at Walmart or Home Depot because you bought a tool you never use, or don’t use as frequently as you thought you would?
Not defending Plex, I’m just curious.
EDIT: I realize your post referenced pounds as currency, but I don’t know the equivalent stores on that side of the pond. Been 20 years since I was in London! Apologies.
I didn't say I was mad at Plex. I was implying that I was annoyed at my own decision to pay for it.
Ah, sorry, that’s not how I read it. Have a great day!
Is there a specific reason you never used it? Plex isn't great with their enshitification, but once you have a Plex pass, that's the complete expenditure. I disabled all of the "free" and other streaming suggestions from my Plex environment.
You can turn it around nowadays on something like Craigslist or FB marketplace. It will easily sell for 150 quid. Some of the plex shares will be happy to take it off you because their accounts get constantly nuked.
You guys are still using plex? I just make it publicly available on a webserver. Access control? Why would I care, I stole it.
Idk. Maybe you don't want to spend the bandwidth and power on streaming it to a bunch of randoms.
Wireguard, or even just jellyfin with a password
Bandwidth is free, as long as it doesn't get to the point its tanking my performance I don't care. If people do start to abuse it I will bother to change it but until then no reason to bother. Obviously not giving the URL out here because then immediately it is going to get hammered.
Security through obscurity is fine when the only thing you are securing against is a bit of an inconvenience and the benefit is its easy to give friends a URL to go to. But sure, if it became a problem I would probably look into something else.
Like sftp?? Hope you configured it right
It's sad but at least it's still competition where desperately needed.
I said it when Netflix launched, and I said it when Plex became popular.
🍪
Nobody talking about Emby?
Why not? I haven't used it yet but it seems great too.
Emby is closed source and costs money to have access to all features. I’d recommend Jellyfin because it’s a free and open source fork of Emby with almost the exact same functionality.
Interesting, thanks.
What about Emby Theater?
That's awful.
And illegal.
It looks non-free as well
Business. It's business. Business has inescapable behaviors that manifest anytime it touches anything. It trades user experience for profit seeking. It's not even complex. Profit always comes at the cost of product value and the purpose of business if profit. It always is, it always will be.
Stremio + Torrentio FTW
oh look, another jellyfin circle jerk.
seriously. it sucks that plex had to increase their price to $250 but they resisted that increase for like 10 years. nobody is forcing anyone to rent plex lol. its still worth it during sales.
Also you can buy a lifetime pass which no one offers anymore. I was lucky and got it 10 years ago but it's probably the software I've used the most in that time.
Jesus wants you to install jellyfin
Jesus can eat shit from my ass. when he does that I'll switch to jellyfin.
Bread is Jesus' body. Poop in a sandwich and your shit will be inside Jesus Christ. Is that close enough to satisfy you?
nope. I want to feel his conviction.