Basically the original heroes were vaguely Tibetan (Aang) or dark-skinned Inuit, but for the movie (that doesn't exist) they quite consistently color coded the good guys as white and the bad guys as darker skinned; the total opposite.
I got that part. The part that was confusing me was Aang's "hero" font being a different color than the other two. I think I'm reading too much into it, maybe
You'll be surprised how many Indians hate other Indians. Not saying M Night does though. I mean just look at how many Indians are in the Trump admin. They get successful and then abandon their roots. Btw I'm Indian.
I don't think it's an Indian hating Indian thing. I think some (often better off) Indians and their families have a propensity to lick the boots of certain evil white people because its what worked out for them during the colonial era.
There's always going to be people that side with the bad guys and in India's case, for the past few centuries, people that sided with the bad guys often attained wealth and luxury beyond what other Indians had. Even if those bad guys were committing a few genocides along the way.
It sucks. Its a very "fuck you, got mine" attitude but I can't think anything more American / Western than that.
Colorism, the favoritism towards lighter skinned people against darker skinned people, has a long history in India, and is still very much a problem today.
I mean, I've watched it through many times, but tha's not really the point here. They switched up the appearance of the whole Fire Nation demographic because... Well...
I’ll give you that for Shenzi (Whoopi Goldberg), but that’s a big stretch for Banzai (Cheech Marin) and Ed (Jim Cummings). I don’t think Marin can play anything other than a mexican stereotype, and Ed was just a moron.
Even the tale is perfect. Witchcraft, hate, murder, life in the forest, fantasy dwarves, a tomb, and torture. It hardly gets more black metal than that.
Yeah Romani in Western Europe are often white passing or straight up white, and mircrakagovia or wherever they are from is quite obviously an eastern Europe analogue.
Scarlet witch is probably white, maybe a bit swarthy
Sokovia (Соковиja, Sokovija) is a fictional landlocked country in Eastern Europe that is the home of Wanda and Pietro Maximoff, as well as Helmut Zemo.
it's even worse than that cos the original text never said ariel's human version race, they just assumed it lol.
and before anyone says yes but its written by a dane, my response is yes but it's a fairy tale, anything is possible. why assume and then get angry based on your assumption?
To be fair, skin tone usually develops due to exposure to the sun. If anything, mermaids probably are tanned on top (backs) and pale on their stomachs. Like great whites
he's like 1/8 or 1/16 native, so despite being far removed from indigenous people and culture white americans have a tendency to see any claim to cultural heritage as valid, so the outrage wasn't as big as normal
Who would do it? The crazy, easily offended, superficial and impulsive Native Americans? There's only one tribe that gets fuming mad and violent about this kind of ridiculous shit...
Love him in any roles where he uses his regular British accent. Let's not make him do Baltimore accent ever again. In fact, probably best we forget that happened l tbh
Can we please stop calling them "African American??" Nobody likes that. Not even black people like saying or being called "African American," for several reasons.
We do need some way to qualify them. They're not just regular Americans, like us, due to the excess of pigment. Perhaps, Black-American? Negro-American?
If the character's ethnicity isn't directly relevant to the story or its message, why does it matter? People of all kinds of heritage live just about anywhere in the world, so a character being from some country doesn't have to determine their ethnicity.
It's a damn movie. Cast whoever is gonna play the character best. I don't care of brothers and sisters were different or if men played women or women player men.
But I'm used to the theater were roles don't have such a large talent pool.
If copyright didn't last forever, anyone could make a little mermaid movie with the main character as whatever race they prefer. Its been 35 years, time to release this into the public domain.
I dislike it no matter the color for most things. There are plenty good actors that would match a characters ethnicity but they decide to go with the opposite of that. Now I’m all for representation and stuff, but when Hollywood does this it either feels forced or ignorant
iirc, a lot of the times in old media creators would use red-haired people as stand-in for minorities, basically if they wanted to make a character BIPOC, but the studio wouldn’t let them, they’d make them red-haired instead
got this from hearsay so take it with a grain of salt. but if it’s true, it’s nice that the original visions can be fulfilled now!
(and even if it’s not true, more BIPOC in movies is never a bad thing, even if it comes at the cost of red-haired characters, which whatever it’s not like we’re systematically oppressed)
edit: also I’ll note that Ariel is still red-haired in the remake
She, famously, has no idea how humans live. She is culturally distinct from the Europeans on the coast.
She has more in common with the fish that she speaks to. She's basically a magic dolphin.
Meanwhile, the people in the OP image are humans (to my knowledge, I'm not a nerd). Humans who have lived in the human world with human pasts full of human culture which give context to their characterization. I'm sure their background stories matter to their fans.
Nobody argues about what color the scales on Ariel's tail should be.
I'll defer to your delphine expertise. Although Snow White is the one that really got me, she's explicitly described in the text, her snow white skin is her primary physical characteristic.
Don't get me wrong, I am upset about the others, or at least as upset as is reasonable for the ethnicities of fictional characters. But consistency is consistency. I'd rather see more stories from diverse cultures than arbitrary race-switching.
anyway as an 1800s fairy tale for children, imo i think it's fine to view it through the lens of whichever culture you want. the trouble imo begins when trying to ascribe something to the story which it certainly did not contain - even that is probably basically harmless if you're just confused or something, but it certainly becomes a problem when it's used to justify unfairly shitting on someone else for a slightly different yet completely harmless alternative depiction.
Not a Turk, he was most likely Lycian, Anatolian people that at the time of his birth were completely greekified. Turks only show there many centuries later.
Hmmm.... I do mind that they look the part so you can at least recognize them.
Avatar the last airbender movie was the worst offender of this,
because at least one cast member looked like another character from the show.
I don't know from which movies they are but
If #3 has an iconic beard, then #3 needs a beard and some better clothes if those clothes are iconic as well.
#4 is a no.
I don't really care about this though tbf, most comic book heroes have multiple incarnations often with gender-swap and different ethnic groups, Ariel on the other hand is a character from a traditional European fairy tale. It bothers me more to see Tom Cruise as "the last samurai" than some random modern comic book character with slightly off skin color.
I'm angry about all five castings. Same about the casting of an african-american as Heimdall in the MCU - What would be whiter than a nordic god? But using while actors for non-white roles is the vast majority of miscasts.
I mean in the MCU Asguardians are just a separate race that have no reason not to be diverse. The only reason they're considered Norse gods is because Scandinavia is where they happened to do things on earth.
Oh it’s even worse than that: they hate live action Ariel because she's “ugly”
sex+race racism is horrifically nasty, yet more common and more “accepted” in my experience.
Also, I will leave this here:
Fortunately, it’s just hypothetical, that live action doesn’t actually exist…
I'm sure I'm missing something super obvious, but can you explain the image?
The big panel is a bit clearer:
Basically the original heroes were vaguely Tibetan (Aang) or dark-skinned Inuit, but for the movie (that doesn't exist) they quite consistently color coded the good guys as white and the bad guys as darker skinned; the total opposite.
I got that part. The part that was confusing me was Aang's "hero" font being a different color than the other two. I think I'm reading too much into it, maybe
I think is just because of the nation, Katara and Soka water tribe = blue, Zuko fire = red and Aaang air = yellow(air nation use yellow robes)
Oh, duh! I'm such a dumbass lol
What Zero said, or maybe it's just because Aang is the main protaganist/Chosen One.
I'm such a dumbass, I didn't even think of that. I've seen it. One of my favorites
Though the director is South Asian himself, so I guess in a way he did that to increase representation, messed-up as that sounds.
You'll be surprised how many Indians hate other Indians. Not saying M Night does though. I mean just look at how many Indians are in the Trump admin. They get successful and then abandon their roots. Btw I'm Indian.
I don't think it's an Indian hating Indian thing. I think some (often better off) Indians and their families have a propensity to lick the boots of certain evil white people because its what worked out for them during the colonial era.
There's always going to be people that side with the bad guys and in India's case, for the past few centuries, people that sided with the bad guys often attained wealth and luxury beyond what other Indians had. Even if those bad guys were committing a few genocides along the way.
It sucks. Its a very "fuck you, got mine" attitude but I can't think anything more American / Western than that.
Oh, I’m from the North of England. I know haha
Colorism, the favoritism towards lighter skinned people against darker skinned people, has a long history in India, and is still very much a problem today.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200818-colourism-in-india-the-people-fighting-light-skin-bias
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8932098/
https://www.stearthinktank.com/post/colorism-in-indian-society
Compare the skin tones of the actors they cast for the live action compared to the original anime
I'm sorry but if you think that Zuko is not a hero, you must have sopped watching Avatar after the third episode.
I think this is comparing it directly to the movie that doesn't exist where he's 100% not a hero
I have no knowledge about a thing which doesn't exist. I can't even see the second row of images.
Weird, isn't it?
I mean, I've watched it through many times, but tha's not really the point here. They switched up the appearance of the whole Fire Nation demographic because... Well...
As to your picture, everyone hated that.
Would they today, though?
I feel like there would be conservative 'backlash against backlash' over racebending cast.
do you remember the original animated "Lion King"?
all the voice actors for the Hyenas were black stereotypes...
I’ll give you that for Shenzi (Whoopi Goldberg), but that’s a big stretch for Banzai (Cheech Marin) and Ed (Jim Cummings). I don’t think Marin can play anything other than a mexican stereotype, and Ed was just a moron.
they originally wanted Cheech and Chong... they were not going for the educated but poor stereotypes here
Casting a brown skinned woman as Snow White will never not be silly.
It's similar to Jack Reacher, it's made very clear in the books he's a tall, physically intimidating person. And they cast Tom Cruise to play him.
"Uh Mr Drake"
Would be better if they actually made new movies with different cultures stories instead of just remaking the old shit too.
They do this outrage bait on purpose though. American society is brain rotted and we need a cause to support or hate. Even in children's movies.
who gives a piss, like genuinely
beyond her name, is there any reason why snow white should be white?
and, like, even then. "brown skinned". Zegler is super pale, you’re just mad she’s not a WASP
anyways fuuuuuck disney for a bunch of reasons, but "casting POC for traditionally white roles" is not one of them.
Pretty sure the original text describes her skin as white as snow
In that case no human fits the description, not even albinos who are more pink than "white as snow".
Well, apart maybe from black metal artists.
fuck it, black metal snow white. doing something original for once
Even the tale is perfect. Witchcraft, hate, murder, life in the forest, fantasy dwarves, a tomb, and torture. It hardly gets more black metal than that.
I'd watch that.
Grown men having strong opinions on how Disney Princesses should look will never not be silly.
There's no reason for it to matter to them.
Thinking something is "silly" doesn't sound like a very strong opinion lol
"Strong Opinions", or just find it ridiculous?
I'm sure there's a few that were upset, but I think most people were just amused.
Ow. Fuck. I rolled my eyes so hard that I hurt my head.
Woah I'm totally convinced now you're so right actually
the gatekeeper has arrived
Americans are the only ones who regularly equate skin colour with ethnicity.
Yea, many other cultures associate it with wealth/class. They are so much smarter.
one of the many areas most Muricans are ignorant about
Yeah Romani in Western Europe are often white passing or straight up white, and mircrakagovia or wherever they are from is quite obviously an eastern Europe analogue.
Scarlet witch is probably white, maybe a bit swarthy
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanda_Maximoff_(Marvel_Cinematic_Universe)
Eastern Europe more specifically
it's even worse than that cos the original text never said ariel's human version race, they just assumed it lol.
and before anyone says yes but its written by a dane, my response is yes but it's a fairy tale, anything is possible. why assume and then get angry based on your assumption?
To be fair, skin tone usually develops due to exposure to the sun. If anything, mermaids probably are tanned on top (backs) and pale on their stomachs. Like great whites
It's old rage bait sir but it checks out
People definitely made fun of Johnny Depp as a native American.
Made fun of, yes, but there was no outrage, calls for boycotts, etc.
I remember both of those, in addition to the ridicule. Just wasn't as loud.
he's like 1/8 or 1/16 native, so despite being far removed from indigenous people and culture white americans have a tendency to see any claim to cultural heritage as valid, so the outrage wasn't as big as normal
Who would do it? The crazy, easily offended, superficial and impulsive Native Americans? There's only one tribe that gets fuming mad and violent about this kind of ridiculous shit...
Me looking at Idris Elba as Heimdall: damn good, give me more
Idris is my man-crush. I wanted him to be Bond
Love him in any roles where he uses his regular British accent. Let's not make him do Baltimore accent ever again. In fact, probably best we forget that happened l tbh
There were plenty of people mad about most of those.
Can we please stop calling them "African American??" Nobody likes that. Not even black people like saying or being called "African American," for several reasons.
Latinx has entered the chat
I am white but I sit on a board of directors for a majority-black arts org, the founder who is a black woman uses the term African-American.
Not wanting to speak for anyone, but it's probably a mix of your age, social class, background, culture and context that may affect that choice.
Sure, but reason still stands that not all black people identify with Africa, and also not all black people are American.
Halle Bailey is from Altanta, though, the demonym is accurate.
We do need some way to qualify them. They're not just regular Americans, like us, due to the excess of pigment. Perhaps, Black-American? Negro-American?
Black. They call themselves black. And everyone else is safe to call them black too.
Yeah, i know - im joking. Separately - wtf do you mean "they"?
Because if I was black I would've said "we."
Probably shouldn't be speaking for them then...
I do this thing called listening. I'm simply quoting what other black people have said.
So, you've got a black friend, you say?
Nah i'm upset at all of em, either cast the actual race of the character or you are too cheap to put in the effort.
I don't know how to break this to you, but mermaids don't exist.
If the character's ethnicity isn't directly relevant to the story or its message, why does it matter? People of all kinds of heritage live just about anywhere in the world, so a character being from some country doesn't have to determine their ethnicity.
It's a damn movie. Cast whoever is gonna play the character best. I don't care of brothers and sisters were different or if men played women or women player men.
But I'm used to the theater were roles don't have such a large talent pool.
More so, stop casting people just for their name.
I seem to recall some anger about the Ancient One casting.
That's because woman
Tilda Swinton has always, and will forever, exceed gender limitations.
Still fuckin' hot in a Tilda Swinton kind of way though.
I'm not into translucent people
Marvel were big on Romani character = witch in the 70s and 80s.
If copyright didn't last forever, anyone could make a little mermaid movie with the main character as whatever race they prefer. Its been 35 years, time to release this into the public domain.
The copyright does not apply to the Andersen original anymore. You just have to make your own twist on the story.
The Little Mermaid was H. C. Andersen, not the brothers Grimm
There was no misremembering of information in Ba Sing Se!
I want a JAWS style retelling of the Little Mermaid. Then a porn parody version, because I want what I want
The Little Mermaid - The Eroge (I have a feeling it already exists)
If they didn't have double standards then they wouldn't have them at all
How dare they cast the role of Caribbean princess as a young black girl? /s
(I know the stories are Danish or something but Disney put these films in tropical island settings)
A certain group of people care a lot about this, the rest of the world isn't as insane, that's all.
I dislike it no matter the color for most things. There are plenty good actors that would match a characters ethnicity but they decide to go with the opposite of that. Now I’m all for representation and stuff, but when Hollywood does this it either feels forced or ignorant
It can often feel forced. That doesn't mean it always is
Both whitewashing and turning a ginger character black are time honored traditions.
iirc, a lot of the times in old media creators would use red-haired people as stand-in for minorities, basically if they wanted to make a character BIPOC, but the studio wouldn’t let them, they’d make them red-haired instead
got this from hearsay so take it with a grain of salt. but if it’s true, it’s nice that the original visions can be fulfilled now!
(and even if it’s not true, more BIPOC in movies is never a bad thing, even if it comes at the cost of red-haired characters, which whatever it’s not like we’re systematically oppressed)
edit: also I’ll note that Ariel is still red-haired in the remake
"Irish need not apply" was a thing. It tracks.
was.
That's really interesting
The one's labeled tibetan and romani, what are those? I'm familiar with the rest
Ancient One and Scarlet Witch
Both from marvel, the wise one from dr. Strange and the scarlet witch.
Can we be upset about all of them?
Maybe, but Ariel is a fucking mer-person whose race is undefined in the OG story
Isn't this the original illustration?
She, famously, has no idea how humans live. She is culturally distinct from the Europeans on the coast.
She has more in common with the fish that she speaks to. She's basically a magic dolphin.
Meanwhile, the people in the OP image are humans (to my knowledge, I'm not a nerd). Humans who have lived in the human world with human pasts full of human culture which give context to their characterization. I'm sure their background stories matter to their fans.
Nobody argues about what color the scales on Ariel's tail should be.
I'll defer to your delphine expertise. Although Snow White is the one that really got me, she's explicitly described in the text, her snow white skin is her primary physical characteristic.
Don't get me wrong, I am upset about the others, or at least as upset as is reasonable for the ethnicities of fictional characters. But consistency is consistency. I'd rather see more stories from diverse cultures than arbitrary race-switching.
I don't particularly care about arbitrary race switching in fairy tales. Race has no bearing whatsoever on the actual story of Snow White
no, that illustration apparently came 12 years later
anyway as an 1800s fairy tale for children, imo i think it's fine to view it through the lens of whichever culture you want. the trouble imo begins when trying to ascribe something to the story which it certainly did not contain - even that is probably basically harmless if you're just confused or something, but it certainly becomes a problem when it's used to justify unfairly shitting on someone else for a slightly different yet completely harmless alternative depiction.
um sweaty the artist drew it on WHITE paper for a reason
Idc about the original story, i care about the disney version. Disney changes them all drasticaly anyway.
SANTA CLAUS IS WHITE
PEOPLE FROM THE NORTH POLE ARE WHITE
St. Nicholas was a Greek Turk though, so bad example
Not a Turk, he was most likely Lycian, Anatolian people that at the time of his birth were completely greekified. Turks only show there many centuries later.
SANTA CLAUS ISN'T FROM THE GODDAMNED MIDDLE EAST HE NEVER HAD A CHRISTMAS THAT WASN'T WHITE AAAAAA
Hmmm.... I do mind that they look the part so you can at least recognize them.
Avatar the last airbender movie was the worst offender of this,
because at least one cast member looked like another character from the show.
So the 1st one I have no issue with.
2nd needs a tan and spraying his hair to gray/white,
5th needed more red hair like this:
https://images8.alphacoders.com/127/1272798.jpg
The 3rd and 4th ones look ridiculous though.
I don't know from which movies they are but
If #3 has an iconic beard, then #3 needs a beard and some better clothes if those clothes are iconic as well.
#4 is a no.
I don't really care about this though tbf, most comic book heroes have multiple incarnations often with gender-swap and different ethnic groups, Ariel on the other hand is a character from a traditional European fairy tale. It bothers me more to see Tom Cruise as "the last samurai" than some random modern comic book character with slightly off skin color.
Tom Cruise wasn't the last samurai in that film. He witnessed the last samurai, Katsumoto, played by Ken Watanabe.
It's confusing because Tom Cruise is on all the posters.
I'm sorry, but romani is just another word for white. If we make Italians and Greeks white, then romani are white too.
I know it's hard to keep track of every different eurotrash breed, but please make an effort in the future
Romani come from India you dumbfuck
I'm angry about all five castings. Same about the casting of an african-american as Heimdall in the MCU - What would be whiter than a nordic god? But using while actors for non-white roles is the vast majority of miscasts.
I mean in the MCU Asguardians are just a separate race that have no reason not to be diverse. The only reason they're considered Norse gods is because Scandinavia is where they happened to do things on earth.