LOL. I totally didn't realize I commented on your meme, before commenting on your shit post. HUGS. So, yeah, looks like you already got all the bases covered.
Missed a detail: any criticism of the scumbag is now considered "celebration" or "justification". We hated him before he died, but now we cannot say that. Because of the Fuhrer at all.
Dont rewrite history while its still happening, mate. Saying you dont like him because X reasons is not the issue being brought up. Its the people cheering for his death, celebrating murder and worse calling for more of it. I didnt like the cunt, but I never wanted him to fucking die. But a lot of people on this very platform are drinking and cheering. And thats ghoulish behaviour. Its not about Kirk at that point, its about the people saying it.
If you looked at Reddit, you would see that any criticism of Kirk is largely being equated to celebration or at least supporting it.
Even if you ignored that, people are getting fired in droves for saying mild things, and the fascists are trying to force people nationwide to either keep quiet or participate in memorials. Just yesterday Oklahoma tried to force their school children into a minute of silence for the monster.
And even if you ignored that, just posting Kirk's quotes are making a lot of people angry.
And even if you ignored that, there's a huge attack overall on the left's free speech in general. The Nazis are declaring war on us from the administration, saying they will dismantle the left. And declare leftists terrorist groups.
Nope, if you talk to anyone on the right currently, everything the administration is doing right now is fine and they have broken no laws.
"Oh the democrats have done much worse." When i ask them what things democrats have done that are close to what republicans do, they always bring up forcing kids to become trans or giving them hormones in school.
To them any concept of socialism or human rights is considered communism or lgbtq+ . They smear themselves in fascist excrements, coming straight from the orange pudding’s ass.
I have had the same experience and its frustrating. I mentioned Trumps claim that all his actions are legal, and his reply was "well it was ok when Biden said it", like a knee-jerk reaction.
This is one of the biggest problems with our current state of polarization: we’re quick to box people into a binary; either “red” or “blue,” “left” or “right.”
Real people rarely fit neatly into those categories. When you take the time to actually map out someone’s beliefs, experiences, and values, what you find almost never looks like a solid block of one color. Instead, it’s more like a mosaic: someone might lean conservative on economic issues, progressive on social ones, independent when it comes to foreign policy, and undecided on others.
Reducing all of that complexity down to a single partisan label is not only misleading, it also fuels division. It makes it harder to have real conversations, because instead of engaging with the full person (their reasoning, contradictions, and growth), we engage with a caricature. Recognizing that most people carry a mix of beliefs forces us to slow down, listen, and resist the urge to collapse identities into overly simple categories.
The challenge is that this feels counterintuitive, especially for people who haven’t examined why they hold the views they do. It’s easier, and often more comforting, to inherit an identity or adopt a team than it is to wrestle with contradictions and gray areas. But when we refuse that deeper work, we not only misunderstand others, we also misunderstand ourselves.
In other words, the messiness is the point. People are complicated, and when we acknowledge that, we create more space for dialogue, empathy, and genuine understanding; the very things that binary polarization squeezes out.
Edit:
If you’re interested in seeing how this plays out in practice, the New York Times put together a quiz a few years back that illustrates the point really well:
Very well said, this is how i think as well. Here in switzerland it is exactly the same even though we have 5 major parties to choose from.
This is also why direct democracy in switzerland is so amazing. You choose people that represent the parliment in parties while you still can vote different in referendums than your chosen party does.
Probably a libertarian. Non party affiliated has been growing as people arent into fascist Republicans vs fiscal conservative policy and they dont want to be a Democrat in those states.
I know we have this, you are one party of the other thing but i think the "others" is gonna get bigger as a group and already has.
He was apparently dating a transgender person. That doesn't necessarily make him left wing, but it means that in regards to transgender people, he probably didn't fully agree with the right wing
From what I've pieced together, it's a guy from a MAGA family that was recently radicalized, possibly in college towards left-wingism (possibly via exposure and humanization of trans room mate?). There's not that much evidence to suggest he was a far-righter himself (the groyper claims are literally just "yeah the engravings are a dogwhistle trust me bro" but many libs here are buying it), and now it's just turning into a war of push from both sides being like "no it's not OUR guy it's YOUR guy!".
In other words, it's impossible to tell for certain due to how deliberately muddied the waters are by everyone.
There's equal evidence for the groyper claim as there is for the trans roommate claim, which is to say nothing but hearsay being pushed out by the Governor of Utah.
He went to UVU one semester and then left and went to trade school as an electrical apprentice. I highly doubt he got radicalized at college in Utah. He was already radicalized by his parents and family in the MAGA / Mormon spheres. It takes longer than a semester to deconstruct cult level beliefs like that. There is very little to any evidence that his roommate is trans. It is all hearsay picked up from places like 4-chan then spread to right-wing rags then spread to right wing politicans. A big loooong game of telephone. It isn't even clear he lived there at the time of the shooting. The Daily Mail said he lives with his family in a $600,000 six-bedroom home.
The reason the trans - fan fic is getting spread by right-wingers is that the federal authorities are using it to get jurisdiction from the state since that could make it classify as a hate crime. Even if the roommate is trans that doesn't mean they aren't a right-wing trans person. Trans people can have shitty views just like any other group of people.
It doesn't help that the FBI and news outlets are releasing different info to different news audiences to muddy the waters. Just the meta-data of this being the 3rd trans related storyline being pushed does not inspire confidence in it's veracity. The first TRN one was debunked and retracted, but then they claim the engravings point to trans- ideology when that isn't really apparent. Then they come up with another one. Sorry, not buying right-wingers making shit up to blame it on trans people.
The Trump regime doesn't want a local jury of Mormon peers, they want to execute him federally and have control of the trial so that inconvenient information doesn't come out.
Me too. I am left wing and shoot guns weekly. I live in switzerland and it is not a issue at all because there are strict regulations. You cannot aquire an automatic rifle without special permissions.
The problem is that some countries, like Canada, are hell bent on destroying shooting sports. No joke. The gun bans in canada over the past 5 years (there have been no changes in the licensing schemes, BTW, meaning it is not harder to get a gun than it was) is effectively turning almost all shooting sport variations untenable.
It is stupid and they need to stop that. The licensing scheme is fine enough, they don't need to ban every semi-automatic rifle in existence or stop new handguns from being sold. The regulations on handguns in Canada were highly effective and they could have even legalized pocket pistols for collecting and casual sport shooting and it would not have made a difference.
I think "we're" going to end up with a lot of egg on our faces the more they investigate. I believe his parents have already told the authorities that "he's been getting more into left wing ideology in the recent years" so I'm pretty sure its just a matter of time before it's "proven."
The only thing people have to go off of now is some tenuous connection to Nick Fuentes that doesn't seem too solid.
Why the hell would I want to "sweet up" after them? I even used the term "we're" to distinguish the fact that I'm not a right winger. I'm simply trying to stick to the only facts we have, I'm not letting what I want to be real get in the way of what reality seems to be.
I'm one of the last people who wants this to be a left wing guy, but I also won't plug my ears and choose to believe something that might not be true based on some loose connections.
Where did you see he was turning left? Given his background with groupers, he's got Internet brain rot and is trying to play lefty while doing what he did for the reasons stated are hardcore radical right.
In an article I read they stated that his parents were supposedly saying he started turning to the left in recent years. Whether that is true or not remains to be seen, but it would at least partially explain his not voting for Republicans and registration as independent.
What background has been proven that he has a history with groypers? The only thing I've seen are the bullet engravings, but unfortunately he managed to pick every single meme that could go either way... They all have a history of starting one way and being used in another, even the helldiver's reference could be a fascist misunderstanding the point of helldiver's, or a left winger understanding and using it as anti-fascist.
I wish I had it saved since I'm at work and can't do a good enough search, but yeah the quick search I'm doing now is only pulling up "more political." Could have been that the article was wrong and has since been corrected.
Consider the source. Hard-core Righties consider anyone who isn't as right wing as them to be Liberals. They could check every box in Conservative Bingo, but if they have the slightest concern about deporting people without due process, they are as Liberal as a San Francisco Homo.
Boomers complaining people are "turning left" cause their kid asked if Jesus really meant it when he said to feed the poor and treat others with human decency.
Pause. Where did you see he had a background with groypers? Not speculation, but hard evidence. Not memes, but actual proof.
This is the problem today, speculation is treated as fact. Everyone pretends they have things figured out when they don't know shit and are basing their beliefs off of unvetted internet posts.
It doesn't matter what you think or even I think. They already branded him as leftist. They are already attacking innocent people with political violence like the terrorists they are.
The reality is he was raised conservative in a conservative religion, in a conservative family, in a conservative town, and in a conservative state. He is one of them. They know this, I know this, but you seem confused.
I understand what sweep up means... I was saying that's not what I'd want to be doing and it isn't what I was attempting to do.
As for useful idiot, you're literally assuming you know what you claim to be true... Just like you said, what you think or what I think doesn't matter. I'm not "helping" them by my comment suggesting that we might end up embarrassed if they do end up having actual proof he's a "left winger." I'm of the mind that this is unfortunately more likely than not to be the case.
It is okay, you got caught up in the propaganda of what was his political leanings left or right. I am just here to tell you that your doing exactly what they want you to do. Hence the useful idiot
I am assuming the truth. Just like OP said. He is a product of conservative culture regardless if he embraced or denied it.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. At face value alone the alleged “Hey Fascist, Catch!” text on the casing is not something a right winger would say about their own ideological cousin, and if true as well, the shooter may have dated a trans individual. The preponderance of the circumstantial evidence we’ve been told (albeit with the caveat that we can’t trust news orgs that are kissing the ring) would seem to point towards the shooter aligning with left-leaning traits.
Edit: you downvoters need to check your cancel votes at the door. Just because there’s a possibility you might dislike the reality of the situation not turning out how you’d like.
It's a reference to Helldivers 2, and a sufficiently brainrotted individual might very well just put internet references on there. Which he did. And it's not like right wingers haven't been misusing political terms for ages. Remember the term "feminazi"?
The shooter seems to have been involved in some deep internet culture and communities. You can't just treat it like standard opinions, but under that internet lens, which is far less straightforward and filled with codewords. From an outside perspective a lot of that might seem straight up nonsensical when put together. My point is is simply that it's inconclusive
Not that it matters much anyhow, as republicans will pin it on the left and trans people no matter what. They're gearing up for a genocide and will use any excuse available
It's definitely frustrating to see people absolutely refuse to accept that it might not be what they want it to be, meanwhile they'll point to the right and laugh when they do it.
I'm just trying not to let what I want to be true make me believe 100% that it couldn't be anything else. It's kinda like the Epstein distraction "meme" that's getting a bit frustrating... Every single thing that happens is suddenly branded a distraction from Epstein, completely ignoring more realistic reasoning for what is being done... Like Venezuela, we're going to war with Venezuela not to cover for Epstein, but for one of a few reasons: as Carlin said "we're an oil company with a military." or to allow deportations to continue using the foreign enemies distinction that he was denied earlier as "we aren't at war with the cartel" .... Well now we are, or will be.
Anyone that's read about the lead-up to WW2 or, well, any historical instance of fascism gaining political control over a country knows that they're going to keep pushing. They're going to keep targeting the left. They're going to ram through executive orders to oppress the left. They're going to get the SC to make decisions against the left. They're going to label nebulous entities like ANTIFA (when's the last time you saw an ANTIFA gathering) as terrorist organizations. They're going to end up openly calling for genocide. It's going to happen.
So I implore everyone to arm themselves and form networks with likeminded people. You do not want to start doing this after it's too late. If you need motivation, start reading up on 1930s Germany (the similarities are undeniable) and follow up with a list of WW2 atrocities. There's definitely a WIKI page for it.
The number of similarities between modern America and 1930s Germany is shocking.
I believe the assassination of Kirk is highly analogous to the killing of Horst Wessel. Both Wessel and Kirk were far right nationalists who were killed and subsequently hailed as martyrs by their fascist movements.
Hitler brought up Wessel in all of his early speeches. The Nazis wrote songs and bullt statues of Wessel. And today we can already hear the songs about Kirk. Congressmen are passing around a bill to erect a statue of Kirk in the Capitol.
If we continue to follow this timeline closely, we are about 2 years away from our own Reichstag fire moment.
That's an interesting subject, I sometimes wonder "is our fascism progressing faster than the Nazis?", but I haven't really come up with a good answer.
I'll stick with my "2 years" prediction though. I think a Reichstag fire moment is most likely when political tension is high, and political tension naturally peaks in the lead up to a presidential election.
Think that's a fair assessment. On the one hand we are more connected than ever and sentiment travels fast and echo chambers let dangerous extremist thought fester. On the other hand, Germans were experiencing just a much worse actual living situation.
This is the most fucking American liberal comment thread. Just casually wondering if it will be years or months until the fascists consolidate power and start exterminating people. Gee, how awful that will be. Sure is a shame nobody can do anything about it.
There are some republicans out there who think fascists are bad but also believe Antifa is some radical terrorist group. Even if it exists, that would be a good thing
Imperial Japan is the only country in modern history to become a Fascist Theocracy. Under Project 2025, the USA is following a similar path. I always pointed to Germany, Italy and Spain, but they did not beat the Japanese in the fucked up realm of fascism.
Arte, French media, produced a documentary about the Japanese invasion and occupation of Manchuria. Basically WW II started in 1931 led by a rather unknown Imperial Army officer named Kanji Ishiwara. The Tokyo Trials failed to send the asswipe to a prison or hang him and he croaked peacefully in 1949.
The left loves Antifa because they can use it as cover for illegal behavior. It's convenient that you continue to claim Antifa doesn't exist, yet you all coordinate with each other in breaking the law. Hard to coordinate with something that doesn't exist.
Antifa is a loosely organized group of like minded individuals. There is no official membership, it's an ideology welcome to any who share this world view. They develop tactics to intimidate and silence their opponents and help each other cover illegal and immoral behavior. This can be hitting people in the head with bike locks, throwing cups full of cement, lighting buildings on fire, and other destructive behavior. They wear black bloc and cover their faces so as not to be easily identifiable. They claim to be the good guys "fighting Nazis", but really they're a bunch of thuggish larpers with social behavior conditions and a lack of morals. I have hours and hours of video footage of Antifa individuals perpetrating violent and destructive acts against those they disagree with. They lean heavily into the untrue sentiment that they aren't an organization as it allows them to side step any kind of legal accountability. In reality they operate sort of like sleeper cells in different regions protesting, rioting, stoking the flames to silence their political opponents. They're scum.
when I think about thuggish larpers, that's who comes to mind. violent and destructive acts - like j6?
if there's an organization, please, out it, be my guest. do you think you're the first sharp mind that's tried to crack this nut?
that maybe, it's not a giant machination, that simply there are many, many people violently upset with everything from BLM to outright fascism in the streets with ICE?
hrmm....
no, scum paraded through the streets screaming jews will not replace us.
Here's the difference, I can unequivocally state that I don't in any way condone nor support violence from any individual on the right. I'm curious if you can do the same on the left. I routinely see it excused and justified.
I can unequivocally state that I don’t in any way condone nor support violence from any individual on the right.
you must be a rare bear then, sparky, because that entire side froths at the mouth for violence at damn near every turn they get. the overwhelming majority of violence comes from people on the right.
I don't see people on the left condoning violence against anyone except ICE, and that's because of the fascist actions ICE is taking in cities across the country.
Is this actually true? There's too much disinformation about the shooter, his motivations, his identity, his family, his partner going around that I have no clue what to really believe about him.
(Please, nobody respond to this comment telling me "that's exactly what they want" without providing a credible source for your claims about the shooter. If you do provide sources, then you are welcome to make fun of me for being skeptical.)
I will point out one thing that should be obvious, the shooter was only 22. So it's possible he doesn't have a very baked and stable political ideology. I knew a hard core outwardly homophobic conservative at 17 who came out as gay and did theater by 20. I knew a fairly liberal person when she was about 18 that over the years got to a place where she publicly praised Trump and called COVID a hoax and the vaccine a conspiracy. No idea how that happened, even as I saw it first hand.
Given the situation, it is at least clear he was unhinged if he would get to this point, either way. I would have hoped this would be a lesson for people that people get dangerously moved by angry rhetoric, but a lot of folks are ramping up rhetoric instead.
We don't have confirmation on all of his motives yet; however what we do know about the shooter, his upbringing, lifestyle, etc. is that the poster responding to OP in the image above is largely correct.
There are indeed conflicting accounts that his roommate was trans, or his partner was, or similar. None of that's been verified yet, and even if so, it doesn't explain the shooter's motivations.
What we do know about the shooter is that he largely fits the model of a deeply conservative republican, and that fits with how he was raised, his family, and as his grandmother puts it: "Their family was all MAGA".
Going off that, and a lot of other circumstantial details/evidence, it's clear that he was at one point a deeply MAGA character.
Beyond that or what his current motivations are? We can only extrapolate. Those extrapolations largely lead in the direction that he shot Kirk because Kirk didn't back some of the same extremist beliefs he held. Those beliefs are similar to what Nick Fuentes believes in, which is also why he's currently being labeled a Gyroper.
According to some right-wing spaces (r/conservative on Reddit), there is apparently evidence to suggest that the shooter was an outlier within their otherwise hard-right family.
Nobody has direct evidence of the shooter's motivations or political affiliation today. Nobody.
That could change, but today this is true.
Any evidence we have is circumstantial. Most of that circumstantial evidence points in the direction of an extreme right winger.
I'm sure there's some circumstantial evidence pointing in the opposite direction, but it pales in comparison to the circumstantial evidence pointing in the far right direction.
Much of the circumstantial evidence pointing away from the far right came from a mis-attribution from the FBI to a trans rights marker that was debunked as categorically untrue. Or statements from the Utah Gov which are (AFAIK) not backed up by any actual evidence other than how he "wishes" it was. Or from Trump who is known for lying and making things up.
I'd be curious what evidence they have that hasn't been announced/released yet that makes them think that.
I suspect they want it to be true that he was left leaning and they may be assigning too great a weight on the debunked FBI claims, the Utah Gov claims, and Trump's claims; despite most of the circumstantial evidence that's been released so far pointing in the direction of him being far right.
To be clear, this could change later today if the investigators were to release evidence about the shooter's motivations. Until then, all we've got to go on is what circumstantial stuff has been released so far, and that's largely pointing in the direction of the far right.
“Roommate: ‘Why?’ Robinson: ‘Why did I do it?’ Roommate: ‘Yeah."’ Robinson: ‘I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out."
So, we have his direct statement to his transwoman roommate as to his motive, either you can take that at face value or claim it's some carefully crafted lie intentionally meant to deceive us as to his real motives. You do you.
Fair enough, but I think we shouldn't be basing our inferences about the shooter from his family's political leanings. My feeling is that somebody who does something so drastic is likely enough to be an outlier from their family that we can't really know one way or the other.
A big reason why that’s important, as long as it’s done with care, is because conservatives rely on the rhetoric that purely white, conservative communities would be without crime. This kid grew up in a prime setting to show how amazing their way of life is without any “evil leftist” influences and yet here we are. The US has been given every opportunity to show how great theocratic conservative capitalism is and yet it keeps failing because the reality is that it fucking sucks rocks.
I feel like we have a pretty definitive understanding of his motivations. This is directly from Tyler when discussing why he did it, “I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out.” Where is the ambiguity in this?
I wouldn't trust anyone describing his political leanings or motives until court. It's being twisted around and rumors are spreading like wildfire in a vacuum of actual leadership.
I'd even say all indications are that his leanings don't matter in the specifics of this event.
It's probably more informative that folks can credibly have theories for either leaning to lead to this event. Lots of reasons that could believably drive any political leaning over the edge if they are close.
That's a good question. I honestly don't know, they'll probably try to hang him on primetime tv as soon as legally possible.
I just keep hearing about discord and 4chan and how he's got a trans roommate/girlfriend/landlord. If anyone has any reputable sources I'm interested. I just feel like cable news, the Trump admin, and the Internet are all reporting 24/7 on something they need to investigate.
At least people face consequences for lying under oath. Well in theory.
Earlier in the briefing, Gray said investigators had spoken to Robinson’s mother, who said her son had, over the last year “become more political and had started to lean more to the left, becoming more pro-gay and trans rights-oriented”.
He disclosed that the exchange with the roommate then began to explore a motive.
“Roommate: ‘Why?’ Robinson: ‘Why did I do it?’ Roommate: ‘Yeah."’ Robinson: ‘I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out. If I am able to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to retrieve it again, hopefully they have moved on. I haven’t seen anything about them finding it,’” Gray said.
I think the motivation is pretty clear at this point. Not sure how this post got 1k+ likes and no one seem to give credible source.
The politicians just want to continue spreading fear no matter the side imo. I hate how they want to argue instead of trying to unify us (which is what they seem scared to do cuz a unified nation will turn against them)
That is utter bullshit. The right is wanting to go door to door and kill democrats and keep saying this is war. The left is saying we dont condone this kind of abhorrent behavior. They are NOT the same at all.
The oligarchs want that, and the oligarchs have many politicians in their pocket I presume. However, it's not like non-corrupt non-bought politicians have any reason to be afraid of a unified nation -- they're in politics to effect change in the first place.
Cut the 'deep down they know' bullshit. They have no principles and sincerely believe that it is their opposition, or perceived opposition, that are responsible for all things that go wrong no matter what. No matter how many people Trump fucks over or have their lives completely ruined by him, they will just blame the democrats or transgender people or homosexuals or whoever else. They genuinely cannot see what Trump and his asskissers are doing and the results it is having.
It’s more accurate to think of them as irrational beings with brain disease making them unable to think clearly. They have vague intuitions and a complete inability to think rationally.
He should not have been shot. The shooter was, like virtually all such people, a narcissistic main character sociopath who only cared about his own fame and notoriety, and was likely spending too much time in the damp and mushroomy corners of the internet instead of developing an actual personality in the real world. He's less an anti-fascist soldier and more a Travis Bickle wannabe wanker.
But Charlie Kirk was a humongous piece of shit and I am glad he's dead. One fewer humongous pieces of shit to have to listen to. I would never advocate the murder of a man like him, and like I said, I think the shooter was a colossal cunt who unleashed way more danger and harm to marginalised groups than Kirk was capable of provoking on his own. But thank fuck he's gone. Silver linings n'all that 🤷
They were going to do that anyway. And something like this was pretty much inevitable with the way Trump's been running things. It's all part of the plan.
People keep saying this but I'm seeing a different thing. The Kirk murder doesn't seem to have the seriousness required to compare. Instead, the event has turned into an us-vs.-them litmus test. The fascists can't use this to declare autocracy, but they're using it to target enemies.
We can agree that the right wing is trying to use Kirk's death as casus belli to start a civil war against us. We are in a dangerous position right now.
But at the same time we can also choose to NOT spread misinformation like this. No, we don't know right now what political leaning the killer has. If anything, if the evidences released by the investigation can be trusted, he is more likely to be left leaning.
Yes, the right spreads misinformation all the time to further their goals. But I think we can do better.
What evidence? So far, none of it says he is a left winger. Everything we do know points to a MAGA family and village of similar idiots with violent tendencies and a gun-loving way of life.
Multiple people who were interviewed said he was getting into leftist politics, he called Charlie Kirk a "fascist". He had a MTF trans girlfriend. These are not typical MAGA traits.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c99g1e0z2ero
cis guy dating a trans woman is not "gay". he may himself identify as queer or bisexual but we don't have to misgender his girlfriend out of a desire to play up his purported right wingedness.
Sorry, my ignorance of LGBTQ does not dilute my point.
However, in my ignorance, I touched on something you didn’t try to refute and I appreciate it: Republicans are quite often in the closet while publicly raging against the thing they secretly embrace.
thats for sure a thing.
with regards to the shooter i recommend reading ken klippenstein's piece on him, it does not sound like theres enough evidence to firmly consider him a conservative or a groyper or an anarchist yet. he's weirdly apolitical (aside from executing a bigot for as-yet-vague reasons) and several definitive assertions have been made and later retracted by large media outlets, often citing sources that recanted or hearsay that proved false.
EDIT: I’d already read this one. It’s probably more factual than anything mainstream media has done and that’s including those from either side of the political spectrum.
These days they’re all bowing to Trump anyways so who knows what to trust.
According to you, homosexuality is only about gender, not sex. This isn't right and there is no consensus as far as I know. I would personally say a cis guy dating a trans woman is gay
gender and sex are not the same, for the 100th time
After a bit of research, it seems like it aims towards being based on gender and not sex, hmm. I might be wrong on this one?
I believe I might think it's about sex because I wouldn't be interested in a non cisgender person, but that might only be me? I had the feeling that most heterosexual people would not be interested in trans people
Attraction isn’t really exclusively based on sex, though. It’s about a whole range of factors, including how someone presents their personality and their physical traits. Many trans women have a lot of traits people find attractive in women generally, so being attracted to a trans woman is consistent with heterosexual attraction.
This means that liking trans women doesn’t automatically mean you’re attracted to men, so calling it gay is an oversimplification of how attraction works.
You could argue that in a strictly biological sense it is homosexual, but that ignores a whole range of social factors, which isn’t really how the term “gay” is colloquially used.
This means that liking trans women doesn’t automatically mean you’re attracted to men, so calling it gay is an oversimplification of how attraction works.
I get it. Calling it hetero would seem like an oversimplification as well though. We need more words!
Attraction isn’t really exclusively based on sex, though
I get it, but making it solely based on gender isn't a good idea as well I believe. Doesn't seem specific enough. Also, trans women and trans men don't necessarily change physically, right? They can still look like their birth gender, that's what's throwing me off I believe.
doesnt really sound like you're an authority on the topic.
the term "gay" applied to someone who identifies as a man means that they are attracted to men, whereas
trans women are- and this is true- Women.
assigned gender at birth is irrelevant, regardless of your personal opinion
First of all, you completely missed the main point of my comment. If you think there's no evidence then you shouldn't be claiming one way or the other either, yet this post is presenting him as definitively right wing.
Secondly, I didn't say he is a left winger. I said (based on my judgement) the evidence shows he probably, maybe leans left.
And answering your "what evidence" question, his text message to his roommate is released by the investigation. There are also statement from his mother stating he is "getting more and more left" (obviously, grains of salt). And there are leaked (released?) Discord messages from the killer.
If you never heard any of these, then you probably are in an echo chamber.
Huh? That wasn't what I was doing at all, you just pulled that accusation out of your ass. You asked me "what evidence", so I answered, I guess that was the wrong thing to do.
So you actively ignore evidence that might be inconvenient to your opinions?
"I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out."
Robinson’s mother explained that over the last year or so, Robinson had become more political and had started to lean more to the left, becoming more pro–gay and trans–rights oriented. She stated that Robinson began to date his roommate, a biological male who was transitioning genders. This resulted in several discussions with family members, especially between Robinson and his father, who had very different political views.
Specifically what evidence released by the investigation do you feel characterizes the alleged killer as left-leaning? I have not seen any such evidence.
They were always going to blame it on the left. Facts don’t matter to rightists, only keeping control of their followers. All of Lemmy called it the moment the assassination happened.
His mom literally said that her son shifted left and got into arguments with his father about politics. How does it feel to be on the side of lies and disinformation?
I see your account is brand new. Whether you’re a Russian or Chinese operative, a MAGA propagandist, or just extremely gullible, the Fediverse is probably not the place for you.
Robinson’s mother told police that her son had “began to date his roommate, a biological male who was transitioning genders,” the court document said.
And she said that over the past year or so, Robinson had become more political and had “started to lean more to the left – becoming more pro-gay and trans-rights oriented,” according to the documents.
What are your reasons for thinking he was on the Right?
My understanding is that everyone who has publicly spoken about him has indicated that while he was raised in a Republican family, he himself held strong Left views. His friends/classmates have indicated he had become very vocal about this and regularly got into arguments over it. He was in a relationship with a trans individual which is a decidedly Left behavior. More than that he murdered a Republican poster boy because of his ideology (as indicated by Tyler himself).
First of all, there is no Republican Party any longer, they are as dead as the Whigs. They should only be referred to in an historical or scholarly context.
They are the MAGA Party now. They have nothing in common with the traditional platform of the Republican Party - smaller government, lower taxes, economic/fiscal responsibility, family values, religious values, etc. MAGA embraces none of those foundational tenets, instead supporting and encouraging treason, racism, corruption, violence, genocide, pedophilia, misogyny, incompetence, ignorance, intolerance, and more.
The Dems should hold a press conference, and unilaterally, but officially, declare the death of the Republican Party, and then never refer to them again, always calling them the MAGA Party. The MAGAs are proud of being Republicans, and they will go out of their minds over this.
the traditional platform of the Republican Party - smaller government, lower taxes, economic/fiscal responsibility, family values, religious values, etc.
TBF, the GOP didn't hold many of those values either. They wanted to increase government control over people, lower taxes only for the rich and therefore increase the national debt, values only counted if they were christian and straight, etc. The main differences with MAGA is they say the quiet part out loud and they're more comfortable with nazis, fascists, and kings than the GOP ostensibly was.
They may not have lived by it, but they certainly were proud of it, and claimed it relentlessly. Now they don't even try to claim smaller government, or lower taxes. They know how ludicrous it would sound.
Not true. Trump was constantly slamming Biden's poor economy, even though it was far better than Trump's first term. They made a big show of selling the concept that MAGAs, and specifically him, know the economy better than anyone, despite decades of history showing that the economy ALWAYS tanks under the right-wing administrations.
ALL true, but the GOP has given up the "fiscal responsibility" angle. I knew Republicans who were fucking enraged by Bush's spending and wars. They GOP no longer pretends to be saving our treasury. Sure, they say their policies will eventually enrich us, but they've utterly given up saying they're trying to save money. Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but I clearly remember their scream of "fiscal responsibility!", and now they are silent.
They haven't given up the claim when a Democrat is president. When a Dem is in the White House, all we hear about is how it is imperative to cut the deficit at any cost, including government shutdowns.
Then a MAGA takes over and we don't hear a peep as they expand some major surveillance agency like Homeland Security or ICE or the Space Force.
They are the MAGA Party now. They have nothing in common with the traditional platform of the Republican Party - smaller government, lower taxes, economic/fiscal responsibility, family values, religious values, etc.
What a load of bullshit. The Republican party has never, in my lifetime (and from everything I've read, since long before that) stood for those things.
They may have said that they do, but their actions speak louder than words.
I honestly cannot believe that people still say shit like this.
Whether they lived by it or not, it was the definition of their party that they offered to the world.
The fact that they don't even try to float those concepts any more, because they know how silly they'd sound, demonstrates that they have changed.
The simple fact is that the Republican Party and the MAGA Party are now two separate entities, and should be referred to that way. And by the Dems making the unilateral choice to eject the Republicans to the dustbin of history, and force recognition of the MAGA Party, the Traditional Republicans, who think they are going to wait out MAGA, and revert to being Republicans again someday, will come to the realization that they have killed the Republican Party that they love so much.
It's long past time that the Dems matched the MAGA's psychological warfare.
Exactly, that’s why I hate politics they just like to politicize everything. Even if he was left or right instead of fighting we should focus on the mental health epidemic(I believe that’s the right word).
It’s like how people sue gun companies for shootings instead of thinking the person who did the shooting is mentally ill
My bad, what I actually meant was politicizing to fit their narrative. As tragic as this event was the right and left are just pointing fingers at each other which doesn’t help things.
I can't speak to the shooter's motivations (though meme forensics seems pretty silly) but the "at a Right wing state with a Right wing governor" etc bits seem pretty dumb.
It'd be like saying the guy who went after Pelosi was clearly a Leftie because it was in a Leftie state, with a Left song governor, in a Left wing city against a Left wing politician. Pretty nonsense points and make us look dumb.
It's sort of relevant because when crazy stuff happens in a Democratic state, the right points fingers and they imply that chaos is happening because of governance.
Kind of feels like the right invents their own truth and constantly does mental gymnastics. Now we are doing it? The media talked about goypher for a day and everybody jumped on it.
jumping on the band wagon without any questions... like the whole trans rhetoric on a bullet. the bullets engravings are memes and I doubt there was much thought put into them beyond being 'for the lulz' or some other edgelord bullshit as would be expected of a 4channer
That's a bit my point, both sides are exhibiting the same energy at the moment. I thought Lemmy would be a bit more critical, especially since I figure it's users are more resistant to rhetoric and manipulation.
At this point, I think even if the shooter came out and publicly declared his ideology, anybody that "guessed" wrong during the last week wouldn't believe him.
Seems blatant to me, I'm surprised no one seems to be mentioning it.
Y'all remember when ISIS attacked that theater in Russia and Russia immediately blamed Ukraine despite ISIS openly admitting to it and begging for recognition?
Yeah, this is more of the same from the party of Putin's professional cock holsters.
So many of these Charlie Kirk AI generated TikTok videos popping up everywhere have to shoehorn some amount of "We hate Greta Thunberg" into them. I'm beginning to suspect these people aren't actually sad that Kirk is dead. They're sad that Greta Thunberg is doing something infinitely more dangerous and more inspiring, yet she managed to outlive him.
A KGB spy and a CIA agent meet up in a bar for a friendly drink
"I have to admit, I'm always so impressed by Soviet propaganda. You really know how to get people worked up," the CIA agent says.
"Thank you," the KGB says. "We do our best but truly, it's nothing compared to American propaganda. Your people believe everything your state media tells them."
The CIA agent drops his drink in shock and disgust. "Thank you friend, but you must be confused... There's no propaganda in America."
We had 3 TV stations, 3 sources of the nightly news. (Nightly news for national and world news, local paper for local news.)
The talking heads always said the same things. Sounds like state propaganda, doesn't it? But the reality was that none of them wanted to show even a whiff of bias. The #1 metric of who one watched for their news was trust. Like Cronkite or Rather? Who do you trust? Bias was verboten, propaganda. LOL, after Watergate, journalists hunted politicians for sport.
Al Jazeera America started with the promise to report "just the facts ma'am". Now I don't know shit about their worldwide operations, I only saw the American version, and I was horrified. I realized I was so brainwashed on news-as-entertainment that reading their version was like watching grass grow. Hadn't seen news reported as straight facts in so long I was bored shitless.
I have some experience. Edited my high school paper, not like that's a big deal, but I had some solid journalistic training. Same in college. I can point to bias in any given article you care to show me. Not Al Jazeera, nada, no bias.
I mean his DNA was found on the gun, there's a slew of text messages, handwritten notes, and video evidence showing that it was him, but I suppose a Republican could have broken into his house, stolen his DNA, planted incriminating messages, and borrowed his clothing. At this point we really just don't know, anything is possible.
Soon after Charlie Kirk's assassination, some on the political left quickly spread a baseless theory that the conservative podcaster was killed by a follower of the ultra-right-wing group called Groypers.
Authorities told Axios they believe Robinson's romantic relationship with his transgender roommate could be key to determining a motive for Kirk's killing, and that Robinson believed that the conservative was spreading transphobic hate.
Robinson "wasn't too fond of Trump or Charlie [Kirk]," a former coworker of his told CNN.
Reality check: As noted by Time Magazine, those who have covered Fuentes downplayed connections between Robinson and the movement.
I don't think reality is welcome on Lemmy at this point.
Personally, it doesn't really matter much whether he was left or right since it's very clear that right-wing extremist violence makes up the large majority of these incidents.
no it would alienate thier base, if they blame the right wing group associated with fuentes. the gop could lose seats if they start recognizing that a right winger is the shooter, and those supporters would turn on them in a second. they are also finding it difficult to blame the left, because almost none of the political violence is caused by the left in the first place, except for rare instances.
I'm starting to think there are more rare instances of left wing violence than common instances of right wing violence.
In the future, when you watch more of Tyler Robinson's social media get released to the public and then see him testify at trial, you will see how obvious it is that the claims he was anything other than a pure "reddit leftist" were shameless gaslighting.
When that happens, please try to think back to all the other times you've been lied to.
There aren’t. The majority of political violence is committed by those with right wing ideologies. That isn’t to say that that can’t change in the future, but we’re a ways away from the right losing that crown.
This year alone there were more political figures assassinated on the left by the right, than vice versa.
I don't know what you are talking about. I seem to hit a nerve. Narcs are the eternal victims. Always get verbal about it without really saying anything.
I mean yeah, stigmatizing an entire group of people over their shared mental illnesses, illnesses usually brought on by severe childhood neglect and trauma, just because there are there are vile public figures or people you may know personally that also fit the description definitely rubs me the wrong way.
Don’t get me wrong, there are loads of horrible people with cluster b disorders, just like there are loads without. The bad ones should absolutely be called out for their shitty behaviors, but the readiness to villainize people over a general description doesn’t help anything but your own ego and only ostracizes the ones that actually do take accountability.
I’m sure you could guess but I have a cluster b disorder myself (bpd) and the way the media portrays us, doctors brush off and ignore us seeking help, and the way people just LOVE to group all of us in with the worst of them is draining and damaging to those of us who genuinely just want help, try to do good for those around them, and are just trying to live their lives in peace.
Hatred is hatred, replace the words “cluster b” with “trans folk” or “black people” and you might see what I’m talking about. Instead of beating down on these shit politicians for having mental illnesses, maybe beat down on them for being the fascists they are.
His Mom said he had become more political lately. Specifically left-leaning, pro-gay and pro-trans. He left a note for his trans roommate that he was going to assassinate Kirk. He said that he "Had enough of Kirks hatred" in his discord chat and inscribed pro-trans, gay and antifascist rhetoric on the bullets.
Being pro-gay and protrans doesn't necessarily mean that you're not right-wing. It just means you don't share the commonly held out groups. Unusual, yes, but a tell, not really.
If he was dropping some Marxist stuff, was interested in taxing the rich, or universal healthcare, then I would say he's not right wing.
I don't. I don't really think the information points to a specific ideology at this point in time. I'd give the odds of them being conservative about 65%. He was born and raised in a Christian conservative family. In a religious conservative state. Gay hate can only really exist in an environment without gay people, same thing for people who hate trans people.
Which hate comment are you talking about? I am not familiar, so this might change my opinion.
As for not being far right enough, that's easy. The online and professional media have been playing the game of who can be more extreme for a while now. I believe there's a lot of conservatives out there who would be willing to kill someone on their same side for not being extreme enough. They would consider them traders, grifters, or not real conservatives.
He was born and raised in a Christian conservative family. In a religious conservative state.
The origin story of many gay people or future political leftists.
Gay hate can only really exist in an environment without gay people, same thing for people who hate trans people.
Assertion. It's like saying you can't hate men unless you grow up in a society without them. People hate all kinds of people for all kinds of reason. This argument doesn't work.
Which hate comment are you talking about?
He said Kirk was spreading hate.
I believe there’s a lot of conservatives out there who would be willing to kill someone on their same side for not being extreme enough.
What you believe has nothing to do with what is true. There is no evidence that he thought Kirk wasnt extreme enough. In fact his hate comment indicates it could be the opposite. (e.g. that he saw Kirk as a Nazi that needed to be killed)
Holy poop you are coming on wrong and hard. I don't know if the shooter conservative or not, but you desperately don't want him to be. Probably because it would look bad for you if he was.
You're not interested in the truth, just a narrative.
I'm challenging the certainty of this entire site. My personal opinion is that he is a broken product of a nihilistic culture. I also think that he hated Charlie because he thought Charlie hated gays even though he was a big tent conservative that was inclusive for all. What people don't understand is that Kirk WAS the moderate conservative.
No, not really, I mean some tankies out there are like that, but then again if your logic is on the level of tankies you're most likely wrong. A right wing shooter killed Kirk, that's just a fact.
So, far right parents in a conservative religion in a Republican town in a Republican state produced a child so tortured by a culture of hate and violence that as soon as they even start to lean either way their instinct is murder. Breaking the cycle of hate is relatively easy compared to breaking the cycle of violence. The statements they made to their roommate (even if that heresay is true) just confirm that they were a troubled child from a troubled culture trying to change. It should surprise no one that those childish attempts would be a VERY twisted reflection of the ideal. So no, he was not part of the left. Just a child in pain reacting the only way their conservative upbringing taught them.
While authorities say Robinson hasn’t been cooperating with investigators, they say his family and friends have been talking.
Robinson’s mother told investigators that their son had turned left politically in the last year and became more supportive of gay and transgender rights after dating someone who is transgender, Gray said.
Those decisions prompted several conversations in the household, especially between Robinson and his father. They had different political views and Robinson told his partner in a text that his dad had become a “diehard MAGA” since Trump was elected.
Mason added that the family’s views “differed quite significantly,” and the conversations were at times controversial between parents and son.
oh sure, I'm not talking about this case obviously
I was thinking about things like epstein files not being made public and left accusing right, and right accusing left
Mass surveillance, facism, war... that happened under obama now happens with trump
Don't have examples on left blaming right when it happens though, I was mainly saying that each side will blame the other for things they have done too, but obviously I missed the point of this post because that's clearly not it. I also believe I wanted to say that one side is quick to accuse the other without real evidence, and assumes that the other one is responsible when it's not that simple.
after re-reading my comment I feel dumb, I'll strike the text. Sorry.
It's interesting that tens of millions of people know the truth of him being a radical far-left homicidal maniac, but the few thousand people here continue to circlejerk over lies. I really expected better from lemmy. Oh well, it is what it is.
The only evidence of this I've seen is that his roommate might have been trans, and we all know being in the same room as a trans person makes you a radical left maniac.
Can you be specific about what you mean by “radical far left”? Obviously we all agree that he’s a homicidal maniac, because he assassinated a person in public, but I don’t wanna just jump on the downvote bandwagon without hearing you out. What makes him a decent person?
Yeah, but why is this in shitpost, though.
I'm open to suggestion!
Political memes? https://lemmy.ca/c/[email protected]
I often post there, but this isn't a 'meme'.
Here's the recreation:
Right?
LOL. I totally didn't realize I commented on your meme, before commenting on your shit post. HUGS. So, yeah, looks like you already got all the bases covered.
I was looping the same way.
cheers,
Microblog posts? ![email protected]
Agreed!
Thanks for next time!
It’s not and should be reposted elsewhere
Shit Reality, Shit Post
It’s a Midas shitpost.
Missed a detail: any criticism of the scumbag is now considered "celebration" or "justification". We hated him before he died, but now we cannot say that. Because of the Fuhrer at all.
Dont rewrite history while its still happening, mate. Saying you dont like him because X reasons is not the issue being brought up. Its the people cheering for his death, celebrating murder and worse calling for more of it. I didnt like the cunt, but I never wanted him to fucking die. But a lot of people on this very platform are drinking and cheering. And thats ghoulish behaviour. Its not about Kirk at that point, its about the people saying it.
If you looked at Reddit, you would see that any criticism of Kirk is largely being equated to celebration or at least supporting it.
Even if you ignored that, people are getting fired in droves for saying mild things, and the fascists are trying to force people nationwide to either keep quiet or participate in memorials. Just yesterday Oklahoma tried to force their school children into a minute of silence for the monster.
And even if you ignored that, just posting Kirk's quotes are making a lot of people angry.
And even if you ignored that, there's a huge attack overall on the left's free speech in general. The Nazis are declaring war on us from the administration, saying they will dismantle the left. And declare leftists terrorist groups.
None of this is okay. Open your eyes.
Maybe it should be about the factors that led to a person murdering another person and not the bystander reactions to a notable event that happened.
So, youre now going with the "she deserved to be raped. What did she think was going to happen going up to his hotel room at 3 in the morning?"???
Bullshit
Nope, if you talk to anyone on the right currently, everything the administration is doing right now is fine and they have broken no laws.
"Oh the democrats have done much worse." When i ask them what things democrats have done that are close to what republicans do, they always bring up forcing kids to become trans or giving them hormones in school.
People really are that out of touch with reality.
They are fascists.
Period.
They fit the definition.
They are fascists.
They might be stupid fascists that don't even know it, but that doesn't change that they're fascists.
And fascists are liars
To them any concept of socialism or human rights is considered communism or lgbtq+ . They smear themselves in fascist excrements, coming straight from the orange pudding’s ass.
there's a portion that are ignorant sure. and there's a portion that leverages that ignorance as a shield to deny their fascist motivations.
they're both awful.
Did they provide any real world examples?
yeah they saw it on facebook or truth social
I have had the same experience and its frustrating. I mentioned Trumps claim that all his actions are legal, and his reply was "well it was ok when Biden said it", like a knee-jerk reaction.
I had to JackieChan_WHAT.jpg while driving.
Do we know about the political views of the suspect? I know he supports guns but that does not make you automatically right wing
This is one of the biggest problems with our current state of polarization: we’re quick to box people into a binary; either “red” or “blue,” “left” or “right.”
Real people rarely fit neatly into those categories. When you take the time to actually map out someone’s beliefs, experiences, and values, what you find almost never looks like a solid block of one color. Instead, it’s more like a mosaic: someone might lean conservative on economic issues, progressive on social ones, independent when it comes to foreign policy, and undecided on others.
Reducing all of that complexity down to a single partisan label is not only misleading, it also fuels division. It makes it harder to have real conversations, because instead of engaging with the full person (their reasoning, contradictions, and growth), we engage with a caricature. Recognizing that most people carry a mix of beliefs forces us to slow down, listen, and resist the urge to collapse identities into overly simple categories.
The challenge is that this feels counterintuitive, especially for people who haven’t examined why they hold the views they do. It’s easier, and often more comforting, to inherit an identity or adopt a team than it is to wrestle with contradictions and gray areas. But when we refuse that deeper work, we not only misunderstand others, we also misunderstand ourselves.
In other words, the messiness is the point. People are complicated, and when we acknowledge that, we create more space for dialogue, empathy, and genuine understanding; the very things that binary polarization squeezes out.
Edit:
If you’re interested in seeing how this plays out in practice, the New York Times put together a quiz a few years back that illustrates the point really well:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/09/08/opinion/republicans-democrats-parties.html
Is there a way to interact with this quiz that doesn't involve me giving the NYT a dollar?
Very well said, this is how i think as well. Here in switzerland it is exactly the same even though we have 5 major parties to choose from. This is also why direct democracy in switzerland is so amazing. You choose people that represent the parliment in parties while you still can vote different in referendums than your chosen party does.
From what I've heard, he was from a right wing family but there are conflicting reports on whether he himself was right wing
Probably a libertarian. Non party affiliated has been growing as people arent into fascist Republicans vs fiscal conservative policy and they dont want to be a Democrat in those states.
I know we have this, you are one party of the other thing but i think the "others" is gonna get bigger as a group and already has.
This is what i read as well. While not likely, it is totally possible he is not right wing
He was apparently dating a transgender person. That doesn't necessarily make him left wing, but it means that in regards to transgender people, he probably didn't fully agree with the right wing
Not all right wingers are against trans people. I‘d be surprised if ecen 50% are
From what I've pieced together, it's a guy from a MAGA family that was recently radicalized, possibly in college towards left-wingism (possibly via exposure and humanization of trans room mate?). There's not that much evidence to suggest he was a far-righter himself (the groyper claims are literally just "yeah the engravings are a dogwhistle trust me bro" but many libs here are buying it), and now it's just turning into a war of push from both sides being like "no it's not OUR guy it's YOUR guy!".
In other words, it's impossible to tell for certain due to how deliberately muddied the waters are by everyone.
There's equal evidence for the groyper claim as there is for the trans roommate claim, which is to say nothing but hearsay being pushed out by the Governor of Utah.
He went to UVU one semester and then left and went to trade school as an electrical apprentice. I highly doubt he got radicalized at college in Utah. He was already radicalized by his parents and family in the MAGA / Mormon spheres. It takes longer than a semester to deconstruct cult level beliefs like that. There is very little to any evidence that his roommate is trans. It is all hearsay picked up from places like 4-chan then spread to right-wing rags then spread to right wing politicans. A big loooong game of telephone. It isn't even clear he lived there at the time of the shooting. The Daily Mail said he lives with his family in a $600,000 six-bedroom home.
The reason the trans - fan fic is getting spread by right-wingers is that the federal authorities are using it to get jurisdiction from the state since that could make it classify as a hate crime. Even if the roommate is trans that doesn't mean they aren't a right-wing trans person. Trans people can have shitty views just like any other group of people.
It doesn't help that the FBI and news outlets are releasing different info to different news audiences to muddy the waters. Just the meta-data of this being the 3rd trans related storyline being pushed does not inspire confidence in it's veracity. The first TRN one was debunked and retracted, but then they claim the engravings point to trans- ideology when that isn't really apparent. Then they come up with another one. Sorry, not buying right-wingers making shit up to blame it on trans people.
Hold on... A hate crime? Jesus fucking Christ. Being a fascist asshole is 100% a choice. And their entire existence is a fucking hate crime.
The Trump regime doesn't want a local jury of Mormon peers, they want to execute him federally and have control of the trial so that inconvenient information doesn't come out.
If this kid had been "radicalized towards left-wingism" in any way, the media would be all over it and we wouldn't be hearing the end of it.
Ding ding ding ding.
When you hear that he's "not cooperating" today, that means the regime can't convince him to tell everyone he's really a liberal.
His family and city was, but it pretty likely seems he was not. Hard to be a republican if you're living with (and allegedly dating) a trans.
It was only for one semester. And you'd be surprised how many white supremacists have had relationships with non-whites.
Yeah, but most don't live with one.
He also seemed to want others to be helped and didn't register as a Republican voter, or actually vote (though he was registered to do so).
I am a big time left wing guy and I love guns. Of course I believe in gun control, but I do not believe in most gun bans.
Me too. I am left wing and shoot guns weekly. I live in switzerland and it is not a issue at all because there are strict regulations. You cannot aquire an automatic rifle without special permissions.
The problem is that some countries, like Canada, are hell bent on destroying shooting sports. No joke. The gun bans in canada over the past 5 years (there have been no changes in the licensing schemes, BTW, meaning it is not harder to get a gun than it was) is effectively turning almost all shooting sport variations untenable.
It is stupid and they need to stop that. The licensing scheme is fine enough, they don't need to ban every semi-automatic rifle in existence or stop new handguns from being sold. The regulations on handguns in Canada were highly effective and they could have even legalized pocket pistols for collecting and casual sport shooting and it would not have made a difference.
I think "we're" going to end up with a lot of egg on our faces the more they investigate. I believe his parents have already told the authorities that "he's been getting more into left wing ideology in the recent years" so I'm pretty sure its just a matter of time before it's "proven."
The only thing people have to go off of now is some tenuous connection to Nick Fuentes that doesn't seem too solid.
This kid was different. He is not one of us! /S
What was fucking hilarious was the governor got on to reassure all Utahns that he was not like his parents, community, or state when he clearly is.
Your musings don't matter he has already been branded by the liars as a leftist and your just here to sweep up after them like a good lackey.
Why the hell would I want to "sweet up" after them? I even used the term "we're" to distinguish the fact that I'm not a right winger. I'm simply trying to stick to the only facts we have, I'm not letting what I want to be real get in the way of what reality seems to be.
I'm one of the last people who wants this to be a left wing guy, but I also won't plug my ears and choose to believe something that might not be true based on some loose connections.
Where did you see he was turning left? Given his background with groupers, he's got Internet brain rot and is trying to play lefty while doing what he did for the reasons stated are hardcore radical right.
In an article I read they stated that his parents were supposedly saying he started turning to the left in recent years. Whether that is true or not remains to be seen, but it would at least partially explain his not voting for Republicans and registration as independent.
What background has been proven that he has a history with groypers? The only thing I've seen are the bullet engravings, but unfortunately he managed to pick every single meme that could go either way... They all have a history of starting one way and being used in another, even the helldiver's reference could be a fascist misunderstanding the point of helldiver's, or a left winger understanding and using it as anti-fascist.
The article I saw said he was getting more “political“ recently, not explicitly more left-wing…
I wish I had it saved since I'm at work and can't do a good enough search, but yeah the quick search I'm doing now is only pulling up "more political." Could have been that the article was wrong and has since been corrected.
If you didn't vote in '22 or '24, and had the ability, you're not a progressive or liberal, full stop.
Yeah and if he had been getting more lefty they would have said that, not the intentionally vague "more political".
Consider the source. Hard-core Righties consider anyone who isn't as right wing as them to be Liberals. They could check every box in Conservative Bingo, but if they have the slightest concern about deporting people without due process, they are as Liberal as a San Francisco Homo.
You can't let MAGAs choose the labels.
LOL.
Boomers complaining people are "turning left" cause their kid asked if Jesus really meant it when he said to feed the poor and treat others with human decency.
Yeah, it's probably the fact that he went to college for a semester. To them that means he was indoctrinated into leftism.
Pause. Where did you see he had a background with groypers? Not speculation, but hard evidence. Not memes, but actual proof.
This is the problem today, speculation is treated as fact. Everyone pretends they have things figured out when they don't know shit and are basing their beliefs off of unvetted internet posts.
Sweep up is a reference to cleaning up.
It doesn't matter what you think or even I think. They already branded him as leftist. They are already attacking innocent people with political violence like the terrorists they are.
The reality is he was raised conservative in a conservative religion, in a conservative family, in a conservative town, and in a conservative state. He is one of them. They know this, I know this, but you seem confused.
They have a name for this and it is useful idiot.
I understand what sweep up means... I was saying that's not what I'd want to be doing and it isn't what I was attempting to do.
As for useful idiot, you're literally assuming you know what you claim to be true... Just like you said, what you think or what I think doesn't matter. I'm not "helping" them by my comment suggesting that we might end up embarrassed if they do end up having actual proof he's a "left winger." I'm of the mind that this is unfortunately more likely than not to be the case.
It is okay, you got caught up in the propaganda of what was his political leanings left or right. I am just here to tell you that your doing exactly what they want you to do. Hence the useful idiot
I am assuming the truth. Just like OP said. He is a product of conservative culture regardless if he embraced or denied it.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. At face value alone the alleged “Hey Fascist, Catch!” text on the casing is not something a right winger would say about their own ideological cousin, and if true as well, the shooter may have dated a trans individual. The preponderance of the circumstantial evidence we’ve been told (albeit with the caveat that we can’t trust news orgs that are kissing the ring) would seem to point towards the shooter aligning with left-leaning traits.
Edit: you downvoters need to check your cancel votes at the door. Just because there’s a possibility you might dislike the reality of the situation not turning out how you’d like.
Don't forget the arrows after the quote, though
It's a reference to Helldivers 2, and a sufficiently brainrotted individual might very well just put internet references on there. Which he did. And it's not like right wingers haven't been misusing political terms for ages. Remember the term "feminazi"?
The shooter seems to have been involved in some deep internet culture and communities. You can't just treat it like standard opinions, but under that internet lens, which is far less straightforward and filled with codewords. From an outside perspective a lot of that might seem straight up nonsensical when put together. My point is is simply that it's inconclusive
Not that it matters much anyhow, as republicans will pin it on the left and trans people no matter what. They're gearing up for a genocide and will use any excuse available
It's definitely frustrating to see people absolutely refuse to accept that it might not be what they want it to be, meanwhile they'll point to the right and laugh when they do it.
I'm just trying not to let what I want to be true make me believe 100% that it couldn't be anything else. It's kinda like the Epstein distraction "meme" that's getting a bit frustrating... Every single thing that happens is suddenly branded a distraction from Epstein, completely ignoring more realistic reasoning for what is being done... Like Venezuela, we're going to war with Venezuela not to cover for Epstein, but for one of a few reasons: as Carlin said "we're an oil company with a military." or to allow deportations to continue using the foreign enemies distinction that he was denied earlier as "we aren't at war with the cartel" .... Well now we are, or will be.
Anyone that's read about the lead-up to WW2 or, well, any historical instance of fascism gaining political control over a country knows that they're going to keep pushing. They're going to keep targeting the left. They're going to ram through executive orders to oppress the left. They're going to get the SC to make decisions against the left. They're going to label nebulous entities like ANTIFA (when's the last time you saw an ANTIFA gathering) as terrorist organizations. They're going to end up openly calling for genocide. It's going to happen.
So I implore everyone to arm themselves and form networks with likeminded people. You do not want to start doing this after it's too late. If you need motivation, start reading up on 1930s Germany (the similarities are undeniable) and follow up with a list of WW2 atrocities. There's definitely a WIKI page for it.
The number of similarities between modern America and 1930s Germany is shocking.
I believe the assassination of Kirk is highly analogous to the killing of Horst Wessel. Both Wessel and Kirk were far right nationalists who were killed and subsequently hailed as martyrs by their fascist movements.
Hitler brought up Wessel in all of his early speeches. The Nazis wrote songs and bullt statues of Wessel. And today we can already hear the songs about Kirk. Congressmen are passing around a bill to erect a statue of Kirk in the Capitol.
If we continue to follow this timeline closely, we are about 2 years away from our own Reichstag fire moment.
So this time around, is that 2 weeks?
That's an interesting subject, I sometimes wonder "is our fascism progressing faster than the Nazis?", but I haven't really come up with a good answer.
I'll stick with my "2 years" prediction though. I think a Reichstag fire moment is most likely when political tension is high, and political tension naturally peaks in the lead up to a presidential election.
Think that's a fair assessment. On the one hand we are more connected than ever and sentiment travels fast and echo chambers let dangerous extremist thought fester. On the other hand, Germans were experiencing just a much worse actual living situation.
This is the most fucking American liberal comment thread. Just casually wondering if it will be years or months until the fascists consolidate power and start exterminating people. Gee, how awful that will be. Sure is a shame nobody can do anything about it.
To be fair, 1930s got most of their ideas from the US. The country has always been sick in the bones.
Antifa is such a strange concept to me because doesn't it stand for Anti-fascist? So making Antifa your enemy means you are fascist
Correct. And it's not strange.
There are some republicans out there who think fascists are bad but also believe Antifa is some radical terrorist group. Even if it exists, that would be a good thing
Imperial Japan is the only country in modern history to become a Fascist Theocracy. Under Project 2025, the USA is following a similar path. I always pointed to Germany, Italy and Spain, but they did not beat the Japanese in the fucked up realm of fascism.
Could you elaborate?
Arte, French media, produced a documentary about the Japanese invasion and occupation of Manchuria. Basically WW II started in 1931 led by a rather unknown Imperial Army officer named Kanji Ishiwara. The Tokyo Trials failed to send the asswipe to a prison or hang him and he croaked peacefully in 1949.
they love antifa because they can point at anything they don't like and scream antifa, and now law enforcement will fall on it.
fucking fascists.
The left loves Antifa because they can use it as cover for illegal behavior. It's convenient that you continue to claim Antifa doesn't exist, yet you all coordinate with each other in breaking the law. Hard to coordinate with something that doesn't exist.
do you have a single shred of evidence?
where do they go to sign up, antifa.org?
indeed; but you've figured it all out apparently, so drop the wisdom. how is 'the left' coordinating via 'antifa' to break the law?
also, what's wrong with anti fascism? everyone should be anti fascism, unless you're a goose stepping fascist cocksucker.
Antifa is a loosely organized group of like minded individuals. There is no official membership, it's an ideology welcome to any who share this world view. They develop tactics to intimidate and silence their opponents and help each other cover illegal and immoral behavior. This can be hitting people in the head with bike locks, throwing cups full of cement, lighting buildings on fire, and other destructive behavior. They wear black bloc and cover their faces so as not to be easily identifiable. They claim to be the good guys "fighting Nazis", but really they're a bunch of thuggish larpers with social behavior conditions and a lack of morals. I have hours and hours of video footage of Antifa individuals perpetrating violent and destructive acts against those they disagree with. They lean heavily into the untrue sentiment that they aren't an organization as it allows them to side step any kind of legal accountability. In reality they operate sort of like sleeper cells in different regions protesting, rioting, stoking the flames to silence their political opponents. They're scum.
Proud boys, 3%s and Groypers more your speed?
when I think about thuggish larpers, that's who comes to mind. violent and destructive acts - like j6?
if there's an organization, please, out it, be my guest. do you think you're the first sharp mind that's tried to crack this nut?
that maybe, it's not a giant machination, that simply there are many, many people violently upset with everything from BLM to outright fascism in the streets with ICE?
hrmm....
no, scum paraded through the streets screaming jews will not replace us.
that's scum. fascist scum.
Here's the difference, I can unequivocally state that I don't in any way condone nor support violence from any individual on the right. I'm curious if you can do the same on the left. I routinely see it excused and justified.
you must be a rare bear then, sparky, because that entire side froths at the mouth for violence at damn near every turn they get. the overwhelming majority of violence comes from people on the right.
https://time.com/7317383/political-violence-america-trump-crackdown-right/
I don't see people on the left condoning violence against anyone except ICE, and that's because of the fascist actions ICE is taking in cities across the country.
Is this actually true? There's too much disinformation about the shooter, his motivations, his identity, his family, his partner going around that I have no clue what to really believe about him.
(Please, nobody respond to this comment telling me "that's exactly what they want" without providing a credible source for your claims about the shooter. If you do provide sources, then you are welcome to make fun of me for being skeptical.)
I will point out one thing that should be obvious, the shooter was only 22. So it's possible he doesn't have a very baked and stable political ideology. I knew a hard core outwardly homophobic conservative at 17 who came out as gay and did theater by 20. I knew a fairly liberal person when she was about 18 that over the years got to a place where she publicly praised Trump and called COVID a hoax and the vaccine a conspiracy. No idea how that happened, even as I saw it first hand.
Given the situation, it is at least clear he was unhinged if he would get to this point, either way. I would have hoped this would be a lesson for people that people get dangerously moved by angry rhetoric, but a lot of folks are ramping up rhetoric instead.
A very fair point indeed
We don't have confirmation on all of his motives yet; however what we do know about the shooter, his upbringing, lifestyle, etc. is that the poster responding to OP in the image above is largely correct.
There are indeed conflicting accounts that his roommate was trans, or his partner was, or similar. None of that's been verified yet, and even if so, it doesn't explain the shooter's motivations.
What we do know about the shooter is that he largely fits the model of a deeply conservative republican, and that fits with how he was raised, his family, and as his grandmother puts it: "Their family was all MAGA".
Going off that, and a lot of other circumstantial details/evidence, it's clear that he was at one point a deeply MAGA character.
Beyond that or what his current motivations are? We can only extrapolate. Those extrapolations largely lead in the direction that he shot Kirk because Kirk didn't back some of the same extremist beliefs he held. Those beliefs are similar to what Nick Fuentes believes in, which is also why he's currently being labeled a Gyroper.
According to The Onion, he once had a trans Uber driver so that obviously makes him a leftist.
You can bake cookies twice a week for years and nobody calls you a baker.
But you have sex with ONE HORSE......
Hello, Uncle Jack.
According to some right-wing spaces (r/conservative on Reddit), there is apparently evidence to suggest that the shooter was an outlier within their otherwise hard-right family.
Is there any evidence to the contrary?
Nobody has direct evidence of the shooter's motivations or political affiliation today. Nobody.
That could change, but today this is true.
Any evidence we have is circumstantial. Most of that circumstantial evidence points in the direction of an extreme right winger.
I'm sure there's some circumstantial evidence pointing in the opposite direction, but it pales in comparison to the circumstantial evidence pointing in the far right direction.
Much of the circumstantial evidence pointing away from the far right came from a mis-attribution from the FBI to a trans rights marker that was debunked as categorically untrue. Or statements from the Utah Gov which are (AFAIK) not backed up by any actual evidence other than how he "wishes" it was. Or from Trump who is known for lying and making things up.
I'd be curious what evidence they have that hasn't been announced/released yet that makes them think that.
I suspect they want it to be true that he was left leaning and they may be assigning too great a weight on the debunked FBI claims, the Utah Gov claims, and Trump's claims; despite most of the circumstantial evidence that's been released so far pointing in the direction of him being far right.
To be clear, this could change later today if the investigators were to release evidence about the shooter's motivations. Until then, all we've got to go on is what circumstantial stuff has been released so far, and that's largely pointing in the direction of the far right.
From the texts between him and his roomate that have been publicly released. Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/16/charlie-kirk-shooting-prosecutor-utah
“Roommate: ‘Why?’ Robinson: ‘Why did I do it?’ Roommate: ‘Yeah."’ Robinson: ‘I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out."
So, we have his direct statement to his transwoman roommate as to his motive, either you can take that at face value or claim it's some carefully crafted lie intentionally meant to deceive us as to his real motives. You do you.
"He's talking about hatred towards the Right, not the Left"
-Lemmy communist attempting to cope
Hi, I'm here to remind you that this is utterly delusional and even reddit mods are about to get real quiet how this "he was right wing" fabrication.
Fair enough, but I think we shouldn't be basing our inferences about the shooter from his family's political leanings. My feeling is that somebody who does something so drastic is likely enough to be an outlier from their family that we can't really know one way or the other.
A big reason why that’s important, as long as it’s done with care, is because conservatives rely on the rhetoric that purely white, conservative communities would be without crime. This kid grew up in a prime setting to show how amazing their way of life is without any “evil leftist” influences and yet here we are. The US has been given every opportunity to show how great theocratic conservative capitalism is and yet it keeps failing because the reality is that it fucking sucks rocks.
if he's a leftist, then of course he had "evil leftist" influences. The internet exists.
I feel like we have a pretty definitive understanding of his motivations. This is directly from Tyler when discussing why he did it, “I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out.” Where is the ambiguity in this?
I wouldn't trust anyone describing his political leanings or motives until court. It's being twisted around and rumors are spreading like wildfire in a vacuum of actual leadership.
I'd even say all indications are that his leanings don't matter in the specifics of this event.
It's probably more informative that folks can credibly have theories for either leaning to lead to this event. Lots of reasons that could believably drive any political leaning over the edge if they are close.
His trail's probably a long way away, isn't it?
That's a good question. I honestly don't know, they'll probably try to hang him on primetime tv as soon as legally possible.
I just keep hearing about discord and 4chan and how he's got a trans roommate/girlfriend/landlord. If anyone has any reputable sources I'm interested. I just feel like cable news, the Trump admin, and the Internet are all reporting 24/7 on something they need to investigate.
At least people face consequences for lying under oath. Well in theory.
I think the motivation is pretty clear at this point. Not sure how this post got 1k+ likes and no one seem to give credible source.
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/16/charlie-kirk-shooting-prosecutor-utah
My sentiment is the same.
To be blunt, Lemmy is a terrible place to ask.
I heard there is video of him using a megaphone to debate Charlie at some point. I do not know where to verify this. I will be looking into it later.
Is it this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rncUo1Pnqio
Close enough to double take, but I don't think its the person they caught.
Kirk's job was literally to argue like this though, so it might be somewhere else.
The politicians just want to continue spreading fear no matter the side imo. I hate how they want to argue instead of trying to unify us (which is what they seem scared to do cuz a unified nation will turn against them)
That is utter bullshit. The right is wanting to go door to door and kill democrats and keep saying this is war. The left is saying we dont condone this kind of abhorrent behavior. They are NOT the same at all.
The oligarchs want that, and the oligarchs have many politicians in their pocket I presume. However, it's not like non-corrupt non-bought politicians have any reason to be afraid of a unified nation -- they're in politics to effect change in the first place.
Ik just feels like they don’t care. Overall I just hate all this in fighting makes it hard to get stuff done when you point fingers and shit
yeah, I agree. But like, pointing fingers at "politicians" broadly speaking is still just pointing fingers.
Yeahhhhh explaining stuff isn't my specialty I always end up explaining things wrong lol it's a bad habit
Cut the 'deep down they know' bullshit. They have no principles and sincerely believe that it is their opposition, or perceived opposition, that are responsible for all things that go wrong no matter what. No matter how many people Trump fucks over or have their lives completely ruined by him, they will just blame the democrats or transgender people or homosexuals or whoever else. They genuinely cannot see what Trump and his asskissers are doing and the results it is having.
It’s more accurate to think of them as irrational beings with brain disease making them unable to think clearly. They have vague intuitions and a complete inability to think rationally.
He should not have been shot. The shooter was, like virtually all such people, a narcissistic main character sociopath who only cared about his own fame and notoriety, and was likely spending too much time in the damp and mushroomy corners of the internet instead of developing an actual personality in the real world. He's less an anti-fascist soldier and more a Travis Bickle wannabe wanker.
But Charlie Kirk was a humongous piece of shit and I am glad he's dead. One fewer humongous pieces of shit to have to listen to. I would never advocate the murder of a man like him, and like I said, I think the shooter was a colossal cunt who unleashed way more danger and harm to marginalised groups than Kirk was capable of provoking on his own. But thank fuck he's gone. Silver linings n'all that 🤷
I’m glad he’s gone but this is just what the right needs to go full force Nazi as we have rightly known since it occurred.
They were going to do that anyway. And something like this was pretty much inevitable with the way Trump's been running things. It's all part of the plan.
"Now, I would never advocate murder, but I'm super glad [public figure] is dead. I just wish a tree fell on them instead so it can't be blamed on us."
Don't be surprised when you see this line coming back at you from the other side.
All that a German needs to know about this incident is two words:
Reichstag Fire
(EU pls send help 🥺👉👈)
People keep saying this but I'm seeing a different thing. The Kirk murder doesn't seem to have the seriousness required to compare. Instead, the event has turned into an us-vs.-them litmus test. The fascists can't use this to declare autocracy, but they're using it to target enemies.
It's a loyalty test, yes.
We can agree that the right wing is trying to use Kirk's death as casus belli to start a civil war against us. We are in a dangerous position right now.
But at the same time we can also choose to NOT spread misinformation like this. No, we don't know right now what political leaning the killer has. If anything, if the evidences released by the investigation can be trusted, he is more likely to be left leaning.
Yes, the right spreads misinformation all the time to further their goals. But I think we can do better.
What evidence? So far, none of it says he is a left winger. Everything we do know points to a MAGA family and village of similar idiots with violent tendencies and a gun-loving way of life.
Multiple people who were interviewed said he was getting into leftist politics, he called Charlie Kirk a "fascist". He had a MTF trans girlfriend. These are not typical MAGA traits. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c99g1e0z2ero
Multiple people know him as from a rightwing family, he was photographed in MAGA gear, and plenty of MAGA are secretly gay.
None of what you’ve said is even minutely comparable to the abundance of evidence that says he’s a rightwing abused child from a MAGA family.
He’s also a registered Republic卐n.
cis guy dating a trans woman is not "gay". he may himself identify as queer or bisexual but we don't have to misgender his girlfriend out of a desire to play up his purported right wingedness.
Sorry, my ignorance of LGBTQ does not dilute my point.
However, in my ignorance, I touched on something you didn’t try to refute and I appreciate it: Republicans are quite often in the closet while publicly raging against the thing they secretly embrace.
thats for sure a thing. with regards to the shooter i recommend reading ken klippenstein's piece on him, it does not sound like theres enough evidence to firmly consider him a conservative or a groyper or an anarchist yet. he's weirdly apolitical (aside from executing a bigot for as-yet-vague reasons) and several definitive assertions have been made and later retracted by large media outlets, often citing sources that recanted or hearsay that proved false.
https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/exclusive-leaked-messages-from-charlie
Thanks for the article. I’ll read it now.
EDIT: I’d already read this one. It’s probably more factual than anything mainstream media has done and that’s including those from either side of the political spectrum.
These days they’re all bowing to Trump anyways so who knows what to trust.
According to you, homosexuality is only about gender, not sex. This isn't right and there is no consensus as far as I know. I would personally say a cis guy dating a trans woman is gay
gender and sex are not the same, for the 100th time
You're the one inventing misgendering here
After a bit of research, it seems like it aims towards being based on gender and not sex, hmm. I might be wrong on this one?
I believe I might think it's about sex because I wouldn't be interested in a non cisgender person, but that might only be me? I had the feeling that most heterosexual people would not be interested in trans people
Attraction isn’t really exclusively based on sex, though. It’s about a whole range of factors, including how someone presents their personality and their physical traits. Many trans women have a lot of traits people find attractive in women generally, so being attracted to a trans woman is consistent with heterosexual attraction.
This means that liking trans women doesn’t automatically mean you’re attracted to men, so calling it gay is an oversimplification of how attraction works.
You could argue that in a strictly biological sense it is homosexual, but that ignores a whole range of social factors, which isn’t really how the term “gay” is colloquially used.
I get it. Calling it hetero would seem like an oversimplification as well though. We need more words!
I get it, but making it solely based on gender isn't a good idea as well I believe. Doesn't seem specific enough. Also, trans women and trans men don't necessarily change physically, right? They can still look like their birth gender, that's what's throwing me off I believe.
doesnt really sound like you're an authority on the topic. the term "gay" applied to someone who identifies as a man means that they are attracted to men, whereas trans women are- and this is true- Women.
assigned gender at birth is irrelevant, regardless of your personal opinion
according to you and most people indeed. But is it really that irrelevant?
https://lemmybefree.net/comment/1236893
Different person with same name
The article has screenshots.
Yes, and the voter registration is for a Tyler Robinson, not a Tyler James Robinson.
The Snopes fact check has a screenshot of the registration of Tyler James Robinson.
Fair enough.
Does that make the shooter a leftist?
First of all, you completely missed the main point of my comment. If you think there's no evidence then you shouldn't be claiming one way or the other either, yet this post is presenting him as definitively right wing.
Secondly, I didn't say he is a left winger. I said (based on my judgement) the evidence shows he probably, maybe leans left.
And answering your "what evidence" question, his text message to his roommate is released by the investigation. There are also statement from his mother stating he is "getting more and more left" (obviously, grains of salt). And there are leaked (released?) Discord messages from the killer.
If you never heard any of these, then you probably are in an echo chamber.
I didn’t miss it. I ignored it the same way you so vociferously try to pull this rightwinger away from his rightwing history.
Huh? That wasn't what I was doing at all, you just pulled that accusation out of your ass. You asked me "what evidence", so I answered, I guess that was the wrong thing to do.
So you actively ignore evidence that might be inconvenient to your opinions?
Ok.
Oh, so a bad faith argument
No. I chose to ignore apologist language. Seems quite unpopular with those using words to annoy instead of communicate.
Which is, indeed, a bad faith argument.
Also, answering their comments is not ignoring.
Ok.
"I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out."
You people are fucking dipshits.
Right. MAGA never go for self-preservation against rightwing retaliation.
Put the pieces together. Aside from what I already said:
-Estranged from right wing family
-Dating a transwoman
-Struggled with gender identity
-Complaining about hatred
None of these things are characteristic of the right.
Balance that against an entire life of rightwing indoctrination. That’s a rightwing kid with mental issues.
I will not concede this bullshit talking point that “the left” did this when we all have eyes.
You are describing probably 80% of liberals. Political opinion is not genetic.
Killing someone for "spreading hate" is not a right wing phenomenon.
Lol. That’s a hell of a stretch. You’re welcome to keep pushing this line while I roll my eyes and ignore it.
Specifically what evidence released by the investigation do you feel characterizes the alleged killer as left-leaning? I have not seen any such evidence.
Everyone spreads misinformation to further their goals. It's just not so obvious when it's your side doing it. Confirmation bias
It's not just the political right
They now claim he was "left leaning". It's a war of propaganda.
They were always going to blame it on the left. Facts don’t matter to rightists, only keeping control of their followers. All of Lemmy called it the moment the assassination happened.
His mom literally said that her son shifted left and got into arguments with his father about politics. How does it feel to be on the side of lies and disinformation?
I see your account is brand new. Whether you’re a Russian or Chinese operative, a MAGA propagandist, or just extremely gullible, the Fediverse is probably not the place for you.
I'm gullible because I am trusting his mother's statement over your conspiracy theory? Lol ok.
It's not funny that people believed he was a groyper. This was such an obvious thing that you need to talk to a psychiatrist about it.
Likely based on his texts with his transwoman roommate.
What are your reasons for thinking he was on the Right?
My understanding is that everyone who has publicly spoken about him has indicated that while he was raised in a Republican family, he himself held strong Left views. His friends/classmates have indicated he had become very vocal about this and regularly got into arguments over it. He was in a relationship with a trans individual which is a decidedly Left behavior. More than that he murdered a Republican poster boy because of his ideology (as indicated by Tyler himself).
First of all, there is no Republican Party any longer, they are as dead as the Whigs. They should only be referred to in an historical or scholarly context.
They are the MAGA Party now. They have nothing in common with the traditional platform of the Republican Party - smaller government, lower taxes, economic/fiscal responsibility, family values, religious values, etc. MAGA embraces none of those foundational tenets, instead supporting and encouraging treason, racism, corruption, violence, genocide, pedophilia, misogyny, incompetence, ignorance, intolerance, and more.
The Dems should hold a press conference, and unilaterally, but officially, declare the death of the Republican Party, and then never refer to them again, always calling them the MAGA Party. The MAGAs are proud of being Republicans, and they will go out of their minds over this.
TBF, the GOP didn't hold many of those values either. They wanted to increase government control over people, lower taxes only for the rich and therefore increase the national debt, values only counted if they were christian and straight, etc. The main differences with MAGA is they say the quiet part out loud and they're more comfortable with nazis, fascists, and kings than the GOP ostensibly was.
They may not have lived by it, but they certainly were proud of it, and claimed it relentlessly. Now they don't even try to claim smaller government, or lower taxes. They know how ludicrous it would sound.
They haven't talked "fiscal responsibility" since they let Bush Jr. blew Clinton's surplus. Just dropped it.
Not true. Trump was constantly slamming Biden's poor economy, even though it was far better than Trump's first term. They made a big show of selling the concept that MAGAs, and specifically him, know the economy better than anyone, despite decades of history showing that the economy ALWAYS tanks under the right-wing administrations.
ALL true, but the GOP has given up the "fiscal responsibility" angle. I knew Republicans who were fucking enraged by Bush's spending and wars. They GOP no longer pretends to be saving our treasury. Sure, they say their policies will eventually enrich us, but they've utterly given up saying they're trying to save money. Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but I clearly remember their scream of "fiscal responsibility!", and now they are silent.
They haven't given up the claim when a Democrat is president. When a Dem is in the White House, all we hear about is how it is imperative to cut the deficit at any cost, including government shutdowns.
Then a MAGA takes over and we don't hear a peep as they expand some major surveillance agency like Homeland Security or ICE or the Space Force.
What a load of bullshit. The Republican party has never, in my lifetime (and from everything I've read, since long before that) stood for those things.
They may have said that they do, but their actions speak louder than words.
I honestly cannot believe that people still say shit like this.
Whether they lived by it or not, it was the definition of their party that they offered to the world.
The fact that they don't even try to float those concepts any more, because they know how silly they'd sound, demonstrates that they have changed.
The simple fact is that the Republican Party and the MAGA Party are now two separate entities, and should be referred to that way. And by the Dems making the unilateral choice to eject the Republicans to the dustbin of history, and force recognition of the MAGA Party, the Traditional Republicans, who think they are going to wait out MAGA, and revert to being Republicans again someday, will come to the realization that they have killed the Republican Party that they love so much.
It's long past time that the Dems matched the MAGA's psychological warfare.
As far as I've been able to figure out, the kid was neither right nor left, just fucked in the head.
Exactly, that’s why I hate politics they just like to politicize everything. Even if he was left or right instead of fighting we should focus on the mental health epidemic(I believe that’s the right word).
It’s like how people sue gun companies for shootings instead of thinking the person who did the shooting is mentally ill
... Politicize everything? A guy killed a political figure for political purposes at a literal rally.
My bad, what I actually meant was politicizing to fit their narrative. As tragic as this event was the right and left are just pointing fingers at each other which doesn’t help things.
Oh ya, the right famously doesn't point fingers at every point in time, while calling to kill left leaning people.
He was left.
I can't speak to the shooter's motivations (though meme forensics seems pretty silly) but the "at a Right wing state with a Right wing governor" etc bits seem pretty dumb.
It'd be like saying the guy who went after Pelosi was clearly a Leftie because it was in a Leftie state, with a Left song governor, in a Left wing city against a Left wing politician. Pretty nonsense points and make us look dumb.
It's sort of relevant because when crazy stuff happens in a Democratic state, the right points fingers and they imply that chaos is happening because of governance.
Kind of feels like the right invents their own truth and constantly does mental gymnastics. Now we are doing it? The media talked about goypher for a day and everybody jumped on it.
How are "we" doing mental gymnastics here?
Thinking this guy is right wing just because his dad is and assuming he "ironically" wrote an anti fascist song lyric on the bullet.
The media mentioned goypher once and everyone jumped on the band wagon without asking any questions.
At least the CIA nipped this Luigi before it could grow.
jumping on the band wagon without any questions... like the whole trans rhetoric on a bullet. the bullets engravings are memes and I doubt there was much thought put into them beyond being 'for the lulz' or some other edgelord bullshit as would be expected of a 4channer
That's a bit my point, both sides are exhibiting the same energy at the moment. I thought Lemmy would be a bit more critical, especially since I figure it's users are more resistant to rhetoric and manipulation.
At this point, I think even if the shooter came out and publicly declared his ideology, anybody that "guessed" wrong during the last week wouldn't believe him.
Seems blatant to me, I'm surprised no one seems to be mentioning it.
Interesting. I hadn't even considered that.
Y'all remember when ISIS attacked that theater in Russia and Russia immediately blamed Ukraine despite ISIS openly admitting to it and begging for recognition?
Yeah, this is more of the same from the party of Putin's professional cock holsters.
“Right wing” still isn’t specific enough, as that also includes democrats.
Just to be clear, he was obviously part of the same way of left wing thinking that holds the following opinions:
Which of those opinions do you take issue with?
The gun he used was non binary
So many of these Charlie Kirk AI generated TikTok videos popping up everywhere have to shoehorn some amount of "We hate Greta Thunberg" into them. I'm beginning to suspect these people aren't actually sad that Kirk is dead. They're sad that Greta Thunberg is doing something infinitely more dangerous and more inspiring, yet she managed to outlive him.
What you're describing is clearly foreign propaganda.
A KGB spy and a CIA agent meet up in a bar for a friendly drink
"I have to admit, I'm always so impressed by Soviet propaganda. You really know how to get people worked up," the CIA agent says.
"Thank you," the KGB says. "We do our best but truly, it's nothing compared to American propaganda. Your people believe everything your state media tells them."
The CIA agent drops his drink in shock and disgust. "Thank you friend, but you must be confused... There's no propaganda in America."
Love it!
Funny thing I was thinking on the drive to camp:
We had 3 TV stations, 3 sources of the nightly news. (Nightly news for national and world news, local paper for local news.)
The talking heads always said the same things. Sounds like state propaganda, doesn't it? But the reality was that none of them wanted to show even a whiff of bias. The #1 metric of who one watched for their news was trust. Like Cronkite or Rather? Who do you trust? Bias was verboten, propaganda. LOL, after Watergate, journalists hunted politicians for sport.
Al Jazeera America started with the promise to report "just the facts ma'am". Now I don't know shit about their worldwide operations, I only saw the American version, and I was horrified. I realized I was so brainwashed on news-as-entertainment that reading their version was like watching grass grow. Hadn't seen news reported as straight facts in so long I was bored shitless.
I have some experience. Edited my high school paper, not like that's a big deal, but I had some solid journalistic training. Same in college. I can point to bias in any given article you care to show me. Not Al Jazeera, nada, no bias.
Predictably, they gave up within a year.
Can't tell if this is sarcasm.
Don't we not even know of the guy is truly guilty yet? There is hardly any Information about him yet to even make a good opinion
I mean his DNA was found on the gun, there's a slew of text messages, handwritten notes, and video evidence showing that it was him, but I suppose a Republican could have broken into his house, stolen his DNA, planted incriminating messages, and borrowed his clothing. At this point we really just don't know, anything is possible.
To nitpick, the handwritten note under the keyboard got destroyed. So there isn't any any more.
Thank you for that extra context
Ok fair enough I honestly wasnt away of that information yet
Well, that aged like fine milk.
It's becoming clear people view reality as a "choose your own adventure" game.
Why wait for facts when you can speculate?
Gotta unite the base that was fractured over the Epstein files
KILL
Pardon my ignorance but is this actually banned on some dumbass platform?
I thought it was a trans antifa Marxist! /s
It's starting to look like it was.
I now know way more about this than I wish I knew.
https://www.axios.com/2025/09/15/groyper-charlie-kirk-nick-fuentes-tyler-robinson
I don't think reality is welcome on Lemmy at this point.
Alex Jones got caught looking at trans porn, and he's a right wing piece of shit. So what
Groypers, specifically, are no longer fond of Trump.
Upvoted for citing reasonable source.
Personally, it doesn't really matter much whether he was left or right since it's very clear that right-wing extremist violence makes up the large majority of these incidents.
I wouldn't say the Groyper is totally baseless, but "Robinson's romantic relationship with his transgender roommate" is pretty telling.
no it would alienate thier base, if they blame the right wing group associated with fuentes. the gop could lose seats if they start recognizing that a right winger is the shooter, and those supporters would turn on them in a second. they are also finding it difficult to blame the left, because almost none of the political violence is caused by the left in the first place, except for rare instances.
I'm starting to think there are more rare instances of left wing violence than common instances of right wing violence.
In the future, when you watch more of Tyler Robinson's social media get released to the public and then see him testify at trial, you will see how obvious it is that the claims he was anything other than a pure "reddit leftist" were shameless gaslighting.
When that happens, please try to think back to all the other times you've been lied to.
There aren’t. The majority of political violence is committed by those with right wing ideologies. That isn’t to say that that can’t change in the future, but we’re a ways away from the right losing that crown.
This year alone there were more political figures assassinated on the left by the right, than vice versa.
I don’t see why either side is trying to disown the dude. He turned himself in. That’s so brave, and the right thing to do regardless of affiliation.
My German bro here understands too much. From my perspective, an american shoot another american. For reasons. End of the story.
Cluster B's never blame themselves.
You know there’s more to cluster b than just narcissism right?
Not everyone with a cluster b disorder is incapable of admitting fault.
Sure but you say cluster b because it never just narcissism.
No, no I don’t say that. Just like I don’t assume everyone with adhd is going to yell “squirrel” in the middle of a sentence.
It’s belittling and ableist to presume having a cluster b disorder precludes someone from being able to partake in acts of personal accountability.
I don't know what you are talking about. I seem to hit a nerve. Narcs are the eternal victims. Always get verbal about it without really saying anything.
I mean yeah, stigmatizing an entire group of people over their shared mental illnesses, illnesses usually brought on by severe childhood neglect and trauma, just because there are there are vile public figures or people you may know personally that also fit the description definitely rubs me the wrong way.
Don’t get me wrong, there are loads of horrible people with cluster b disorders, just like there are loads without. The bad ones should absolutely be called out for their shitty behaviors, but the readiness to villainize people over a general description doesn’t help anything but your own ego and only ostracizes the ones that actually do take accountability.
I’m sure you could guess but I have a cluster b disorder myself (bpd) and the way the media portrays us, doctors brush off and ignore us seeking help, and the way people just LOVE to group all of us in with the worst of them is draining and damaging to those of us who genuinely just want help, try to do good for those around them, and are just trying to live their lives in peace.
Hatred is hatred, replace the words “cluster b” with “trans folk” or “black people” and you might see what I’m talking about. Instead of beating down on these shit politicians for having mental illnesses, maybe beat down on them for being the fascists they are.
His Mom said he had become more political lately. Specifically left-leaning, pro-gay and pro-trans. He left a note for his trans roommate that he was going to assassinate Kirk. He said that he "Had enough of Kirks hatred" in his discord chat and inscribed pro-trans, gay and antifascist rhetoric on the bullets.
https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/charlie-kirk-murder-suspect-texts-motive-b2827814.html
How is any of this right wing?
Being pro-gay and protrans doesn't necessarily mean that you're not right-wing. It just means you don't share the commonly held out groups. Unusual, yes, but a tell, not really.
If he was dropping some Marxist stuff, was interested in taxing the rich, or universal healthcare, then I would say he's not right wing.
So how do you know he's right wing?
Edit: Also how do address the hate comment? And justify him killing Kirk for not being far-right enough?
I don't. I don't really think the information points to a specific ideology at this point in time. I'd give the odds of them being conservative about 65%. He was born and raised in a Christian conservative family. In a religious conservative state. Gay hate can only really exist in an environment without gay people, same thing for people who hate trans people.
Which hate comment are you talking about? I am not familiar, so this might change my opinion.
As for not being far right enough, that's easy. The online and professional media have been playing the game of who can be more extreme for a while now. I believe there's a lot of conservatives out there who would be willing to kill someone on their same side for not being extreme enough. They would consider them traders, grifters, or not real conservatives.
The origin story of many gay people or future political leftists.
Assertion. It's like saying you can't hate men unless you grow up in a society without them. People hate all kinds of people for all kinds of reason. This argument doesn't work.
He said Kirk was spreading hate.
What you believe has nothing to do with what is true. There is no evidence that he thought Kirk wasnt extreme enough. In fact his hate comment indicates it could be the opposite. (e.g. that he saw Kirk as a Nazi that needed to be killed)
Holy poop you are coming on wrong and hard. I don't know if the shooter conservative or not, but you desperately don't want him to be. Probably because it would look bad for you if he was.
You're not interested in the truth, just a narrative.
I'm challenging the certainty of this entire site. My personal opinion is that he is a broken product of a nihilistic culture. I also think that he hated Charlie because he thought Charlie hated gays even though he was a big tent conservative that was inclusive for all. What people don't understand is that Kirk WAS the moderate conservative.
Kirk was definitionally a fascist.
As for what the shooter is, I'm sure time will tell. I don't see a need to jump to conclusions on that yet.
~~Kirk was definitionally a fascist.
As for what the shooter is, I'm sure time will tell. I don't see a need to jump to conclusions on that yet.~~
Edit: duplicate post due to lag. Please ignore
Deranged take, touch grass
Right back at you. Finger guns
To a Nazi, anything less than pure, unadulterated Nazism is "left-leaning".
You could be characterized the same way.
No, not really, I mean some tankies out there are like that, but then again if your logic is on the level of tankies you're most likely wrong. A right wing shooter killed Kirk, that's just a fact.
Should be easy for you to prove beyond any shadow of a doubt right now then.
So, far right parents in a conservative religion in a Republican town in a Republican state produced a child so tortured by a culture of hate and violence that as soon as they even start to lean either way their instinct is murder. Breaking the cycle of hate is relatively easy compared to breaking the cycle of violence. The statements they made to their roommate (even if that heresay is true) just confirm that they were a troubled child from a troubled culture trying to change. It should surprise no one that those childish attempts would be a VERY twisted reflection of the ideal. So no, he was not part of the left. Just a child in pain reacting the only way their conservative upbringing taught them.
No true scotsman. Being against ideas of the right and killing someone for espousing them ipso facto is left wing.
What is the difference between center-right, right and far right in your view?
Can we get a link from The associate press or Reuters and not a British tabloid.
Parents said their son became more political
While authorities say Robinson hasn’t been cooperating with investigators, they say his family and friends have been talking.
Robinson’s mother told investigators that their son had turned left politically in the last year and became more supportive of gay and transgender rights after dating someone who is transgender, Gray said.
Those decisions prompted several conversations in the household, especially between Robinson and his father. They had different political views and Robinson told his partner in a text that his dad had become a “diehard MAGA” since Trump was elected.
Mason added that the family’s views “differed quite significantly,” and the conversations were at times controversial between parents and son.
https://apnews.com/article/charlie-kirk-tyler-robinson-court-death-penalty-f541df08a936e06497ee2342296bc398
Thank you.
Is the BBC good enough? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c99g1e0z2ero
You can actually. I suggest using this website: www.google.com
Plenty of trans people are right-wing Trumpers. Some of them are quite popular with plenty of videos on YouTube.
There are also plenty (arguably way more) that are lefties that hate Trump's guts. What's your point?
Hey, checking the facts isn't welcome here!
The funny thing is you can rotate things around "right" -> "left" and it will still be validLemmy can't stop bitching about right, it's honestly funnyThat's not what happened though, is it? Where and when did this situation you are alluding to happen?
oh sure, I'm not talking about this case obviously
I was thinking about things like epstein files not being made public and left accusing right, and right accusing left
Mass surveillance, facism, war... that happened under obama now happens with trump
Don't have examples on left blaming right when it happens though, I was mainly saying that each side will blame the other for things they have done too, but obviously I missed the point of this post because that's clearly not it. I also believe I wanted to say that one side is quick to accuse the other without real evidence, and assumes that the other one is responsible when it's not that simple.
after re-reading my comment I feel dumb, I'll strike the text. Sorry.
Nice examples provided to illustrate your point.
It's interesting that tens of millions of people know the truth of him being a radical far-left homicidal maniac, but the few thousand people here continue to circlejerk over lies. I really expected better from lemmy. Oh well, it is what it is.
The only evidence of this I've seen is that his roommate might have been trans, and we all know being in the same room as a trans person makes you a radical left maniac.
Can you be specific about what you mean by “radical far left”? Obviously we all agree that he’s a homicidal maniac, because he assassinated a person in public, but I don’t wanna just jump on the downvote bandwagon without hearing you out. What makes him a decent person?