Spyke
can
sh.itjust.works

Well that's the worst headline I have read in a while

195

The fact that there's shares to be had for denying care is crazy. They know denying care is their business! Meaning that the money they didn't spend on your care doesn't go back into the pot for everyone in your group, they are pocketing some of the money whenever they deny someone. That's it. They don't help anyone but themselves. There should be a requirement that insurance companies publicly announce how much money they made from denying care

57
piefed.social

Literally and with no exaggeration, death panels. You know, the ones Republicans were yelling about a few years ago. Those exact fucking ones.

166
Maevereply
kbin.earth

Those same ones who screamed about fema prisons... At some point, we'll catch on that these conspiracy theories are actual plans...

56
dohpaz42reply
lemmy.world

The question is: which came first? The conspiracy theory, or the plan? It could go either way with the party of family values.

24

Ah, see, there's your problem: you're using a slight mistranslation. A common mistake. They were never the party of "Family Values". They're the party of "Family Valuations". They exist to find a way to put a number on every family, either "amount of money we can squeeze out of them" or "amount of money we can make by destroying them", and they get bonuses from their corpocratic upstream if they can manage both at the same time.

12
jjjalljsreply
ttrpg.network

Every accusation is a confession, right? That's how conservatives work. They're unimaginative people with poor empathy. They think about what they would do and assume that's what everyone else would do, too. They are trash. Failures. Disappointments.

19
discuss.online

Failures in every way except for gaining power and wealth. A few of them anyway. The sad reality is that throughout history being ruthless always paid off to a large extent.

2
jjjalljsreply
ttrpg.network

Some of the leadership is getting a lot of wealth, true. The majority seem to be losing more. Loss of government programs (eg: Medicare). Return of preventable diseases (eg: measles). Pollution and climate change.

2

I was referring to those at the top. Most of them will be giant failures in life. But the ones that 'succeed' sadly will have more money than God.

2

Evangelical Christianity. They have always claimed that “absolute evil” exists. They have won the philosophical debate, by demonstrating the Platonic form of evil.

3

The goal of the healthcare system should be to treat people.

The goal of a good healthcare system is to treat people. The goal of ours is to treat the rich to another yacht. Healthcare providers bill far above cost for profit, knowing that either the insurance or the patient will have no choice but to eat the cost. Insurance providers use high healthcare costs to justify high policy prices and then do unethical shit to avoid paying out.

The hospitals make money. The insurance company makes money. The shareholders and corporate owners make money. The people needing healthcare get screwed.

The system is, unfortunately, working as intended for those who benefit from it being the way it is.

36
andros_rexreply
lemmy.world

Med schools should accept more than 2% of applicants.

The problem is a lack of residencies, and there’s been lobbying to keep the number of residencies low, to keep doctor wages high.

17

Rejecting claims does have some legitimate purposes.

Invalid ID numbers, people aren’t actually a customer of the insurance company, unreadable data, and actual medical fraud to name a few.

Denials should trigger a government review that the insurance company must justify to a neutral 3rd party that has a medical degree

2

Cystic acne treatment is frequently covered by insurance and the same treatment is desirable to those that suffer from normal acne. Emotional support animals required doctors notes and were desirable for free admittance on planes. Ozempic as a weight loss drug. Topical steroid treatments for treating inflammation. Glasses to see better than 20/20.

There are all kinds of medical treatments (relatively) healthy people would want if they were affordable and knew they existed.

-7

Perhaps so, but it should be up to a medical professional (doctor) whether or not those treatments are appropriate for the patient. Not for-profit companies run by sociopathic executives. (Although in this case we are talking about state-run Medicare using private companies’ AI to make the determination.)

3
D_C
sh.itjust.works

Well I'm sure it'll be all fair and definitely not
DENIED
DENIED
DENIED
DENIED
DENIED CHACHING
DENIED CHACHING
CHACHING
CHACHING
CHACHING

Oh no, that'll deffo not happen. No way!!!

79
lemmy.world

Going to be weird when they let Luigi Mangione out and the head of CMS immediately unalives.

30
canreply
sh.itjust.works

We can, but it's getting deeper than that. Algorithmic censorship is leading to changes in the real world English language.

13
Mirshereply
lemmy.world

This is just wealth transfer to keep another AI company afloat. Most of them live and die on investor cash, and never turn a profit.

9

Given the answers we know they want this should be a pretty profitable business.

print "denied"

Done, and my entire company infastructure is a raspberry pi.

2
mrgoosmoosreply
lemmy.ca

ok, as a non american, that's not a real government site, right? this is a good joke?

10
lemmy.ca

Is there a name for the next step beyond perverse incentives?

Because that's where we are now.

32
pawb.social

Kleptocracy. They just aren't bothering to hide the fact that they're selling off the government for parts anymore

17

They're trying... But it's almost performative. I calmed down a lot when they complied with the orders to shut down alligator Auschwitz, now we've got ICE whining about how no one likes them, people aren't coming to their hearings to get picked up, and all that bullshit about denaturalization seems to have been dropped

Don't get me wrong, it's still horrible, we need to fight it, and we need to disband ICE and have trials when this is all over... But it's not the defining aspect of this administration

Those tents and cages in the Everglades cost hundreds of millions to set up, and probably a comparable amount to tear down. Money that was set aside for disaster recovery. The majority of that money went in someone's pocket

And that's the real defining aspect of the administration. They're fascist enough to do fascism, but they're too busy looting the government for profit to commit to it

3
lemmy.world

This is why I'm so thankful for mortality and chose not to have children. Please, universe, let reincarnation not be a thing.

4

Surprise! You're dead!

Guess what? It never ends! Hahaha!

2
lemmy.world

Officials assert that the AI tools will only be used to judge claims for about a dozen different types of procedures it deems to be wasteful and providing little benefit, including steroid shots to relieve pain, per the NYT.

Yeah cause people on medicare aren't likely to need steroid shots for things like joint pain or anything. Anyone 65 and older should start saving their money now to pay for their steroid shots that are going to start costing them a couple hundred bucks a pop.

30

As someone who lives with constant pain, calling pain relief of any kind "wasteful" enrages me. See if pain relief has "little benefit" when im done with you, mufucka

26

If payments out of pocket were reasonable maybe we are charged like a hundred times what everybody elsein the world pays.

Investors like private equity have taken over Health Care and are extracting the life savings of baby boomers for medical care that used to cost a reasonable amount of money.

3
lemmy.world

Yes, I said, lying.

The machine won't let me get treatment for the thing that makes me narrate my actions, I explained with a weary sigh.

14

You don’t need AI for that….


#!/usr/bin/env python3

def main():
    try:
        _ = input("Enter reasoning for claim: ")  # read but ignore the input
        print("denied")                # always respond "denied"
    except (EOFError, KeyboardInterrupt):
        # Even if input is interrupted, still respond "denied"
        print("denied")

if __name__ == "__main__":
    main()

28

This is the point. They want to erase any legacy either of them left. Trump is a petty little asshole who is still mad that Obama made fun of him once.

20
feddit.uk

So, reject everything and let appeals sort it out.

We got you fam.

26
lemmy.world

And who knows how long that'll take. While we're waiting to see if your pain is considered valid enough to warrant relief, here's a wooden spoon to bite down on.

10
lemmy.world

So bribe the private sector to deny all claims routed through them first for government healthcare and then claim 'gUbmEnT dEAtH pANEls!' are the problem.

24

So bribe the private sector to deny all claims routed through them first

The AI models getting paid most the most they deny is private sector grift built in here.

1
lemmy.world

I've wondered this for a while: Insurance is a contractual obligation on the insurer's part, right? What's stopping me from just suing them for breach of contract rather than going through their appeals process if they illegally deny my claim?

20

What's stopping me from just suing them for breach of contract rather than going through their appeals process if they illegally deny my claim?

The cost of a lawyer that can hope to match theirs. They don't care if it loses them money as long as it deters others from trying the same.

19

What’s stopping me from just suing them for breach of contract rather than going through their appeals process if they illegally deny my claim?

Medicaid is a government provision that has no contract that underpins it. With something like United Healthcare, there is a bargained for exchange of mutual consideration (you give $ and UHC provides insurance subject to all the terms and conditions in the contract).

That is not something in Medicaid because Medicaid isn't getting anything in exchange for its health coverage. The government can put whatever restrictions on it that it wants. The benefit comes from the government having one more contribution to the ecconomic system. However, that is too attenuated of a benefit to say that there was a bargained-for exchange.

11
xia
lemmy.sdf.org

I guess "death panels" are fine if they are machines?

19
floofloofreply
lemmy.ca

They're fine if they make money for the right billionaires.

12

Death panels always existed they just wanted them to be employees at a for-profit.

It's the lack of profit that scares them I guess.

7

Ah! Americans need to be willing to dig deep—really tough it out—to cut costs and save as much money as AI makes possible so that the government can give just 1 more penny to the billionaires. Won't someone please think of the billionaires?

18
lemmy.world

If it makes anyone feel better, they denied everything when it was humans running the show too

18
chunesreply
lemmy.world

Wow I guess I was just imagining several denials from the past decade then. Silly fucking me

-4
lemmy.ca

what the fuck kind of country looks to save billions of dollars spent on healthcare for their own citizens instead of waste fraud & abuse by the uber wealthy, or the military?

you can have an insanely strong military without the waste & fraud that exists in the US

14
lemmy.world

It should be illegal for anyone but a doctor to deny a claim. This isn't even going to be AI, its just going to be a program that denies everything.

14

They'll still use AI for it though, even just to write the program that just does a single line of code: reject();

4

I didn't know I still had any faith to lose in the insurance industry. At this point anyone in a management position is undeniably evil, in all senses of the word. I wish nothing but the worst for them.

12

I’m so tired of living under capitalism. Can you all please get some fucking class consciousness so we can get out of this hellscape?

11

The point is fraud. They give you just enough to think they will cover you when you really need it. And by then, they've already extracted the optimum amount they were gonna get from you.

6

Fucking bots, they started disallowing us from browsing the web. Sure they'll be more careful with our lives.

5

We really need to move to a single payer system when Trump kicks the covfefe bucket.

3

Will it then be fined when it gets it wrong after manual review? Will the person be compensated too?

Of course what they forget is other AI companies will game it on the other end to add new codes to claim that won't be denied.

3
floofloofreply
lemmy.ca

The ethics of sabotaging AI are even less murky than the ethics of what Luigi did. We need tech Luigis.

4
lemmy.zip

As it turns out murdering a random CEO doesn't fix the deep issues with out healthcare.

CEOs are just cogs in the machine at the end of the day. Investors, the rest of the company leadership and the government are all to blame as well.

It is crazy that it is ok to profit off of denying people care.

2
Blackmistreply
feddit.uk

Violence is like duct tape. If it hasn't solved your problem, you didn't use enough of it.

1

Just keep hitting your laptop, I'm sure it will turn on again eventually.

Violence can solve a problem if you have the correct targets, maybe.

0

What I time to be alive

The only way to actually get decent coverage is to get it though an employer.

1
lemmy.ca

This is definitely the wrong "motive structure" for administrative decisions from agency supposed to provide healthcare. Proof of grift as a goal.

By all means, use AI assistance to determine claims validity. But the AI service should be paid per query, or to licence whole model for unlimited use with medicare paying for the computers/gpus. Medicare should be choosing a model that is accurate instead of one that is paid to deny everything, because Homer Simpson's birdy automation can do that ultra cheap.

1
traceur301reply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

Taking claim validity away from the doctor that's actually in charge of the patient's care is already fucked. AI cost cutting doesn't belong in medicine full stop. It shouldn't be a for-profit "industry" in the first place. We're so fucked nobody can even think about this without insane, anti-human framing coloring everything

5

Private medical insurance is corrupt as starting point. A public health insurance/payer system can still be subject to ineligible or fraudulent claims. Every medical provider demand for money automatically accepted is not the perfect model either. Systems, AI or not, should avoid improper denials is a standard only possible in public health systems.

3