How is it even possible/practical to obey traffic laws?
I'm talking specifically about obeying the speed limit, doing a full stop at stop signs, etc. After receiving a speeding ticket for doing 53 in a 50, As an experiment I went a full day obeying all traffic laws 100% and it caused so much road rage. For example, there is a 2 lane road near me with a speed limit of 50 (where I got the ticket), traffic usually moves at about 60/65. There was a huge line of cars behind me and nowhere to pull over. As soon as an opening came up on the shoulder I was about to pull over and one of the cars behind me blew past me on the on the right blaring their horn. Then another truck passed me at the next opportunity and brake checked me. Both of these cars proceeded to run a red light about 1/4 mile ahead of me endangering others. By far the worst part of driving on this 2 lane road was the 25 mph work zone which is completely ignored by everyone else. It effectively resulted in me doing 25 mph in a "60" which is very dangerous.
Having needed to spend the entire day pulling over at every opportunity to let people pass I inevitably picked up a drill bit and got a flat tire.
Even matters as simple as stopping completely at a stop sign for 1 second cause immediate anger and dangerous behavior from other drivers.
What on earth are we expected to do? All I want is to avoid speeding tickets and drive safely.
Speed limits are one of the many transportation issues that have been researched with findings that the US has ignored and the EU has implemented.
Drivers go at the speed they're comfortable with regardless of any posted speed limits. They dont work. What does work is road design to make it uncomfortable to go faster. Narrower lanes, less vision on intersections, raised crosswalks, among other things.
I have a hard time reconciling that with my observations in Europe:
I've never felt like European drivers were "more safe".
The only differences I can think of that are positive for Europe:
The two differences you listed improve traffic flow and safety massively!
Driver education is often more strict depending on country (I'm thinking Scandinavian countries and Germany), unsurprisingly this makes a big difference.
Traveling faster is a bit of a moot point. If people drive faster and rate of incidents and road toll are lower, surely that proves that travel speed isn't the problem in the US.
But really, the drink driving culture in America is terrifying. The state of Texas has a similar population to Australia (where I'm from), 9,560 people died on the road in Q1 2022 in texas. Australia had just under 2000 FOR THE WHOLE YEAR! Both places have similar speed limits that are considerably slower than Europe, so I don't think it would be honest to try and say the low speed limits cause deaths. My best guess would be that drink driving is enforced at 0.05 in Australia compared to 0.08 in Texas. On top of this, Texas only enforces if officers have a cause for lawful detainment, which is a high threshold to cross compared to random breath tests common where I'm from.
Its the same drivers everywhere. Road design is the difference, and europe has a lot of traffic calming road design.
I don't think most of the EU really did anything about speed limits
I dont know about how widespread it is, but yeah EU has been doing what Im talking about https://www.pps.org/article/livememtraffic
Speed radars+ removing driver licences if too many infractions?
Not perfect, but a step in the right direction
We absolutely need a points system in this country. Dui, lose your license AND your car for a month. Hit a pedestrian, come see us in 5 years.
I know these harsh consequences can be even harder in the US than Europe, but as someone who has never been able to drive I know it's not a life ender to lose the privilege for a short time. It's worth the grief to get people taking it more seriously.
European here. You Americans sure do love stop signs! And I did a full stop. Every time. People honked and looked at me like I was a criminal weird 😢
Four way stops are even more exciting.
NotJustBikes have a video about the only stop sign on the Nederlands.
I have never been honked at for stopping at a posted stop sign. Maybe that's how they do it in some other regions of the US, but that's not how it works in the Pacific Northwest. Are you certain you weren't honked at for doing something else and just mis-associated it with stopping at a stop sign? Was it a 4 way stop and you didn't go when it was appropriately your time to go?
It was in LA. No one did a full stop at stop signs. Even saw police cars drive right through. Why not make one road a priority, and then have yield signs on the others? Makes more sense
It is fairly easy to obey the road rules. The problem is that if over time the laws aren't enforced then it is easy over time for thos laws to erode, and then suddenly it feels weird to obey them.
It’s actually impossible to obey road rules, by design. Any cop will tell you that, if they follow you for long enough, they will have an excuse to pull you over. Being too close to the lane markers. Marginally over the speed limit. Cracked windshield. Something dangling from your rear view mirror. Phone/GPS mount on windshield or dashboard. Following distance. Weaving inside your lane. They can even tailgate you and bust you for speeding if you speed up. I even know someone who got a ticket for not speeding up with a cop car tailgating him - with no lights on - for blocking an emergency vehicle.
You can obviously make it more likely you will get pulled over. Excessive speed, dangerous driving, or being of an ethnic minority all should be avoided. But honestly, the only thing actually protecting you is the herd around you and the cop not wanting to be bothered.
Yep! I've only ever been pulled over two times in my life. Both times were shortly after moving from a different state, both times were some absolutely bogus claim by the cop, both times let me off "with just a warning" against the crime of Driving With Out Of State Tags. It's absolutely intentional since they expect an out of state person wouldn't be able to contest it in court. Pigs, all of then
I really disagree that its impossible to obey road rules. Every single thing you listed that you can be ticketed for can easily be considered dangerous and unnecessary for driving...
Realize that a lot of traffic laws are more or less designed to make everyone a criminal. That leaves it up to the cop to decide who they like to pull over.
Sprinkle in a little racism and bam! This is America.
WTF are you talking about, I e stopped at every stop sign for 30 years. This is all in your head. And complete fiction.
Not sure where you live but in America stop signs are everywhere. You can't go anywhere without hitting multiple.
I think it depends largely on where you live. There's a reason it's called the "California Stop." And arpund Boston, the shoulder is a completely additional, auxiliary lane, which so. many. people. use.
There's a funny video where a group of people got on the Atlanta 285 loop, spread out across all lanes, and did the speed limit for a few miles. They had a camera set up on an overpass to watch the procession come around a curve. They say they did it to show how stupid the speed limit on the loop was, and I'm sure it was infuriating for the miles of cars backed up behind them, but... yeah. It showed few people there obeyed the speed limit. I don't know if this is the original; I don't remember it being edited by a spastic gerbil, but that's what I could find before I lost interest.
Getting a ticket for going 3 over is silly. That part does seem contrived, and if contested OP could easily get that thrown out. I suspect either OP was being a douche in some other way, and the cop put something down to harrass them, or they dropped a "0" in the retelling.
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You do? To be frank, I rarely do unless I'm unfamiliar with the intersection, and neither do 95% of the other people I see on the road. I live in the US.
In Germany, it's against the law to not do a full stop at traffic signs. You will fail your driving test doing this and you'll definitely get pulled over when you're seen doing it.
Op is full of shit. I've stopped at every stop sign the entire time I've been driving and there's never been any issue. This is a troll. Plain and simple.
American cops are a bit more lenient, but you will get penalized for it on the driving test.
It depends on the jurisdiction. Small towns will absolutely ticket you for a lack of a full stop.
In Argentina it's against the law too. I have never seen anyone, ever, stop at a stop sign. At most people slow down a little more than usual. Not even cops stop at stop signs. But if you don't stop in your driver test, they can theoretically deny your license. So this is definitely a regional thing.
Fwiw, I visited a lot of South American countries, and Argentina is one of the most respectful of traffic laws. But yeah, stop signs are merely a suggestion at best. People slow down way more in a "dangerous crossing" sign, than a stop sign.
You're talking like if cops respect the laws they're supposed to enforce.
Same in the UK. But here most signs are 'give way' so there can be confusion when there's an actual stop sign.
I think the UK has completely eliminated the US style stop sign. I haven't seen one in years.
Well that sent me down a random Wikipedia dive.
I remember Tom Scott did a video about a really dangerous junction with one a few years ago. The road layout there has now been fixed so it's not needed.
I've never seen one in the wild though.
A ticket for 53 in a 50? Either you were using a GPS speedo instead of the mechanical one in the car or you were actually going faster than you thought.
Here in the UK speedometers are required to read fast and all speed cameras have 5mph dead zone to account for errors in the reading so doing 53mph on the speedo wouldn’t even set off a camera. Obviously idk about the US but it seems a bit stupid not to have a system similar to the UK one.
Yeah that’s weirdly strict. In Florida, going 5mph over the limit means the only thing that cop can do is give you a “warning”. That effectively means it never happens because they aren’t going to waste their time on that (unless maybe you’re black or something like that).
In practice, most people go 10 over and cops don’t do anything about it unless it’s close to the end of the month and they haven’t met their quota yet.
My speedo is accurate I checked, but yes that is the argument I would use in court and honestly I would win. The point of the post is that I was actually breaking the law where no reasonable person would expect me to follow the law.
In Canada they actually cannot give you a ticket if you go x over the limit. The amount changes based on the max speed.
You should obey the basic rules such as speed limits, stopping for red light, etc. Driving faster is associated with higher rate of road fatalities.
The real solution is that our society must abolish the reliance on cars. We should opt for safer modes of transportation that do not make it necessary for us to trust every random person to have the patience and skill for operating a car that can kill people so easily.
The Fuck Cars community is so prevalent over here on Lemmy it's crazy. I wonder why that is.
Btw you guys do you, no hate or whatever I just see this sentiment everywhere on other people's posts.
I think it makes sense. Just think about what makes the average Reddit user interested in a platform like lemmy, and ask yourself if it makes sense that it correlates with fuck cars. I think it makes sense.
One time when I lived in Utah, I literally got pulled over for driving the speed limit. Literally. The cop told me that I needed to go with the flow of traffic instead. He didn't give me a ticket, but it was still an annoying interruption to my day, and I assume it gave him a power boner of some sort.
But another time, living in the same area, I got pulled over by a different cop for going with the flow of traffic, because speeding isn't justified even when everyone else on the road is.
As another comment said, you're fucked if you do and fucked if you don't. Although, I do prefer the alternative of going with the flow of traffic to avoid road rage incidents as you've pointed out.
I think I would have demanded a ticket in your case. I would have really liked to see how that played out in court.
That's when you ask for a name and badge number and report them. They're not allowed to pull you over for nothing.
But they are allowed to lie to you, and allowed to pull you over for perceived infractions. So, yes they can pull you over for "nothing".
I think you can take that 53 mph to court. Thats way too close to be legit.
In most jurisdictions police can do you for even 1mph over. There are a number of things in their favour, as they'll have multiple pieces of evidence (device readout + police statement minimum) against only you and your word. Some places will also give you a far worse outcome if you lose in court than if you just accept the ticket. At the very least you should talk to a lawyer first about how best to take it to court and the likelihood of winning.
End of the day, with the way car speedo's over-read, for you to be doing 53 mph your needle would've been reading ~56, which is well over.
reddit post about possibly uncalibrated speed meters
Yeah wtf, cops in socal don't typically even bother unless you're doing 15 over. Must have been desperate to hit their ticket quota
All I'm getting from this is that, on the day you obeyed all traffic laws, you were the good driver and the others were bad. Things didn't run smoothly because the others didn't obey the traffic laws, not because you obeyed them.
If that many people are 'breaking the rules' then maybe we need to look at the rules rather than asking 95% of drivers to change their habits. I know in my state the speed limit is capped at 65MPH on the freeway, but the second you cross the border, the "maximum safe" speed on that same freeway somehow jumps 5-10MPH. How is that possible?
The reality is that it's a game like the other commentor pointed out. We're allowed to break the rules and drive 80MPH with the rest of traffic so long as the state can quickly and easily generate additional revenue off of it by catching a few stragglers each day and charging them hundreds of dollars in fines.
The reason that many people can't stick to traffic rules like speed limits and full stops, as I see it, is more a result of people lacking patience, they are stressed, they are under constant pressure. And they lash out in road rage against others because they are protected by their little metal box and no one can get to them.
Society needs to slow down and individuals need more empathy. If you have kids, make sure to teach them those two things.
Do it anyway. If a driver crashes into you because you're obeying traffic laws, they're at fault, and their life gets ruined because they're an awful person. If someone blows through a red light, same deal. If traffic gets backed up for several miles because nobody wants to travel at the speed limit, fuck 'em, they should have left earlier. I enjoy the impotent fury that other drivers feel towards me when I'm going 35 in a 35.
It might be "immoral" and "sociopathic" for me to think this, but if someone is gonna get themself killed because they can't stand to come to a complete stop at the stop sign, GOOD, I hope they die. The world is better off without them in it. Of course, never block someone from passing you even if they have to break the law to do it. You never know when someone is bleeding out from a chainsaw wound.
I agree with the spirit of this comment, but AVOID CRASHES. Don't be dead right. A crash can cause you a lifetime of pain, avoid collisions at all costs, even if you have to break some traffic laws to do so.
This 100%. and thats my point exactly. I'm 100% confident that I'm in the right and of course there will be no legal issues with what I'm doing, but if a driver gets pissed off and speeds away resulting in someone getting killed, does that matter? Yes, its their fault but its a direct result of my actions. My only choice it seems is to just break the law.
In principle, sure their behavior causing an accident is their problem.
In reality, if someone crashes into you because you're following the law, it still results in you having to deal with the accident (which could mean you're dead or permanently disabled).
If someone is tailgating me they are in the wrong. I'm still going to do what is necessary to get out of their way ASAP, because the longer they are there the longer they have to potentially kill me with their behavior. It doesn't matter if I'm in the right if I'm dead.
I couldn't give less of a damn if the person being the aggressor gets into an accident and/or gets injured, but very often this results in them hitting another car, or worse a pedestrian.
I have no choice but to do this in my current car, the transmission is fucked and if I accelerate too fast it slips and I don't go any faster. So I slowly go to the speed limit and slowly slow to a slow stop
And if I really hit that accelerator like people want me to, the thing slips, stops, and then suddenly engages full force and I burn out. So that's not much safer either
Driving safely, saving gas, and pissing off drivers
Win/win/win
That's not immoral or sociopathic, that's just plain dumb and shortsighted.
How exactly do you imagine someone ends up dead after running a stop sign? It very often involves a violent crash that may very well kill innocent people who did nothing wrong. They unfortunately don't take only themselves out of the gene pool.
You just had some bad luck. I have passed dozens of police while going 3-5 MPH over the limit and they never took a second look at me. Same thing riding with others. The main thing in driving is try to be a decent person and try not to stand out. If you encounter an unsafe asshole, stay away from them. If you are in the middle a line of cars going 10MPH over the limit, you are probably fine. If you at the front of a line of cars going 10MPH over the speed limit, you are more likely to get pulled over because you stand out as the first speeder.
The point is even doing 1mph over the speed limit is breaking the law, and there's no excuse for it. If you were doing 51 in a 50 and all of the other traffic was doing 65 mph it makes absolutely no legal difference and there is no argument to what everyone else was doing, because the fact is that you are actually exceeding the speed limit in that scenario. Your driving is dangerous because you were driving too slow, but your ticket would be because you were driving too fast. Its the whole point of my original post, what are you supposed to do exactly?
There are excuses that are perfectly reasonable to go over by 1 mph. Speedometers are not perfect, and neither are radar detectors. All my cop friends have told me they are trained to give 10% of the speed to normal variation, so at 50mph you would be within the limit to go 55. This has been my personal experience while driving too.
I'm confused why America has such strict rules on it. I'm pretty sure Australia has 5-10% leniency for inaccuracies in measurement.
You generally won't get a ticket for a few over the speed limit. You can do it hundreds of times without getting a ticket, but an officer can at their discretion pull you over for 1MPH over if they want to. I've heard of people successfully arguing in court that infractions like 53 in a 50 are within the margin of error, and others put into question the calibration of the speed detection equipment.
More than that, if you're at the front of the line, that indicates you're holding up traffic and creating a dangerous situation.
If you're speeding and someone is tail gating you, just let them pass.
So you don't need to obey the laws because others don't? You're being childish, it isn't that big of a deal.
I will say that ticket you got is bullshit though. That's just a dick cop.
Should absolutely dispute that. It will most likely get thrown out.
Standards of driving sound bad where you are
You mean pulling over as in stopping at the side of the road to let people pass because you were abiding by the speed limit? That sounds so wild to me.
I absolutely love driving the speed limit exactly when someone behind me thinks I want a longer trunk, maybe a tiny bit slower if they're persistent.
They're usually able to keep a bigger distance all of a sudden.
That said, the speed is usually at most at 10kmh above the limit so I guess it's not too bad yet. Aside from the occasional idiot that thinks curves with little visibility are superior to straight sections where you can see the next 500 meters for taking people over.
You should protest the ticket in court. Going along with traffic is a valid defense. Get documentation of the behavior mentioned in your post. Doing what you did is more dangerous than going 3 over. The local bureaucracy has a problem there and you can use this issue to shine light on it.
It's not a valid defense. I tried using it once and the judge said, if they all drove off a bridge, would you too?
You will have better luck arguing the 3 mph is within the margin of error of the radar gun, that you were on a hill that was slightly accelerating, you slightly sped up to avoid and accident, etc.
Or within the margin of error of your speedometer.
You were seriously stupid enough to actually admit you did the violation in court? You fight speeding tickets by swearing up and down you were in the limit and calling into question every possible thing the cop could have done wrong.
First speeding ticket in my late teens so live and learn.
I follow all traffic laws to a tee, just to be the change I want to see in the world. Pedestrian deaths (negligent manslaughter IMO) by cars are at an all time high in my country. As a bonus, I usually end up right next to the asshole speeding and weaving in and out of traffic at the red light
If everyone followed the law, there would be no problem. The problem is that bad and unsafe driving is normalized in our society.
Write to your local member.
Care less about what others do.
Move to a first world nation or state. (Most of the US isn't).
Definitely get a dashcam.
Post dashcam footage on YouTube.
Send a bill to the city to the tyre.
Complain about people's dangerous road behaviour until the behaviour is enforced or speed changed.
You know after thinking about it, its only really been a huge problem on this one road where I live. The speed limit varies between 35,45,50 mph and theres one construction zone that is 25 mph. As a whole traffic goes about 60-70mph throughout. Its a windy valley road that is frequented by bicycles and hikers and people have absolutely been killed there in speed related accidents. I sent a message to the sheriff’s department voicing concerns but I’ve heard complaints from neighbors about it for years and its still a huge problem.
On other roads especially highways its mostly no problem to avoid speeding as long as you stay in the right lane, after all trucks avoid speeding most of the time for efficiency and safety reasons, unless you hit a 50-55mph zone like for construction. Those are nearly always ignored by other drivers. Slowing down to comply with the speed limit is likely to get you rear ended since so many are distracted. If you’re lucky enough not to be rear ended it usually results in getting flipped off, but sometimes road rage incidents can escalate.
I've been driving for about a decade and a half now, including a few years here and there working jobs with a lot of wheel time. Either pizza delivery or cable technician or driving around a box truck.
I have never gotten as much as a speeding ticket. I typically don't speed more than 5~10 mph over the limit. If it's a 35 or 40 in a city area though I will typically stay the speed limit. Sometimes I go a little ham on country roads in the middle of nowhere. I drove through central Florida once at like 4am and I peaked at like 120mph because I hadn't seen another car for at least an hour.
I think it probably depends on your jurisdiction, but nobody really respects the laws. On the interstate near my house, the speed limit is 65 but it might as well be 80. Cops will pass you and people will pass the cops and nobody cares.
I think the speeding laws are just to give the cops a reason to pull you over if they want you - OR a way to get people that are really being crazy. For example if you're going 110 in a 65 you deserve to get pulled over and given a ticket or worse, depending on context.
This is the real answer. There's a town near me that used to be training grounds for new sheriff's deputies. The accepted rule was to never deviate by even 1mph there. I recently heard that training doesn't happen there anymore, but I'm not willing to risk it unless I'm in the middle of a bunch of other cars that are also going above the limit so I don't stand out.
I do it when I have to drive. If people get angry that's their problem.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6611240-three-felonies-a-day
It's a feature, not a bug.
Your not expected to obey all laws all the time, its a tool in the toolbox for selective enforcement punishment, taxation.
Ironically, self driving cars will do more to make traffic laws more sensible, since the cars will OBEY every law, no matter how silly... and that will back up traffic until the law is fixed.
I've always thought that if you want to fix bad laws, go to the capital city where the law makers are and obey the law very carefully, such that the cost of obedience is paid by the lawmakers.
That looks like a pretty interesting book, will definitely give it a read.
I personally feel that speed limits, etc are actually quite reasonable given the average human's response time, and the fact that impact force increases non-linearly with increased speed. I think the bulk of the problem is that so many drivers far over-estimate their driving abilities and are out of touch from the outside world being completely isolated in their cars. The fact stands that if you hit a pedestrian at 25 mph, they have a 75% chance of survival but at 35 mph it is 75% likely to be fatal. The 2-lane road in my original post has a lot of hikers, bicyclists, and even horseback riding not to mention the deer that regularly jump out in front of you. Efficiency of literally every car on the road goes up just by slowing down a bit, too. Don't people like spending less on gas?
Funny you mention the self-driving car thing, I'm a tesla FSD beta tester and thats how I made sure to obey every limit and road rule to the T. It was the only way I could get through it since obeying the laws gave me so much anxiety I wanted to speed up at every chance. Using the FSD in real life, though it has a setting to always go x% over the posted speed limit. As if the word "limit" has lost any and all meaning in our society.
I think you would really enjoy reading about the strategies used in traffic engineering. Where they not only take into account the physics of driving, but the human psychology of drivers.
The highway manual indicates for new roads a traffic survey should be done and the 80% speed should be the traffic limit for the road (this doesn't always happen). From a TE perspective you want the law to encourage everyone to work at the same flow.
For roads where drivers go to fast for the conditions, you can create visually hostile environments where drivers naturally slow down (not just speed limit signs, which most people ignore). I.E. add trees, break up sight lines, add curves and chicanes, making lanes more narrow, speed humps, REMOVE traffic markings (this forces people to pay more attention to figure out whats going on).
The highway manual manual is based off gut feelings and little else. Why 80%, where did that come from? How is the currently set speed limit impacting the survey? If you go to a speed trap town by the highway, you'd say the speed limit is dead on, as no one speeds since they know its a trap.
Roads should be designed for the speed you want, and not the other way around. Your last paragraph is dead on. Real solutions look like this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bglWCuCMSWc
The speed limits were set at 80% many years ago when driving a car at that speed felt a lot faster. Physics and impact forces haven’t changed since then though.
It's a game unfortunately.
Sometimes you get nailed for something fucking stupid like 53 in a 50. (Maybe that is worth contesting). Sometimes you deserve it (like me doing 40 in a 25 one time). But there's no justice. Loads of people get away with breaking loads of laws all the time before they finally get caught.
So it's a game for us. But actually it's a money maker for the government doing the enforcing.
One thing works well for me: using Google maps to navigate everywhere I go has the benefit of speed trap notifications.
Literally every ticket is worth contesting. I've gotten out of multiple 15+ over tickets simply because the retarded donut muncher who tagged me couldn't figure out how to make a hearing he knew about for months in advance.
Getting a speeding ticket while going 3 miles over the speed limit sucks so I can see why you’re upset.
I’ve never had a problem just going with the flow of traffic. Sometimes almost everyone is going over the speed limit. I go with that. I’ve lived in Minnesota most of my life. I’m more comfortable than most driving in snow and ice. Sometimes in snowy conditions the flow of traffic seems slower than necessary. Yet, again, I just go with the traffic flow and end up driving a bit slower than I would otherwise. If there’s little to no traffic I just go the speed limit. If someone wants in my lane I let them in whenever possible.
Traffic on that road regularly does 60+ unfortunately. There weren’t any other cars around when I got the ticket.
I’d go with the flow even if they are going over. Drivers going at different speeds can lead to dangerous situations so I try to avoid that most of all. If there’s little traffic then I’d go about the speed limit.
That is still illegal and you can be ticketed for it. That is my point. “Its OK to break the law if everyone else was doing it” is not a valid legal defense. The law states in every state I checked that no driver shall exceed the posted speed limit under any circumstances.
You’re right, you could. I never have been ticketed or in an accident. It’d be better if everyone followed the speed limit, but since that doesn’t happen I try to take the safest approach possible given the situation.
Also be aware that police tend to be a bit more stringent with enforcing traffic rules if you're traveling through a small town. I read an article long ago (so take this with a grain of salt) that the police department of a small town gets a large portion of its funding through speeding tickets, so there's a huge incentive for police in those areas to enforce traffic laws as tightly as possible.
In any case, the highest that I'll do is speed limit + 5 mph when there's not that many other cars around, and if the other cars want to pass by me, no big deal
I like to live a little more dangerously, so I do the speed limit plus ten.
You're not supposed to obey traffic laws. They're designed to fund local governments and give police arbitrary power.
Many laws are. But basic things like speed limit serve a very good purpose: reducing fatalities caused by cars. Speed limits are proven to do this.
Yes but the speed limits posted are outdated, arbitrary, and just too slow
Not at all. What makes you think they are arbitrary? Have you reviewed the method by which they are usually determined? Speed limits are often times too high, and contribute to a high number of preventable deaths. Speed limits must be lowered, not raised. Preventing deaths is more important than saving 2 minutes on your trip.
The last ticket I got was from parking within 15 feet of a fire hydrant. There's no sign or marker indicating where 15 feet is, so I had to basically eyeball it and hope that I was far enough from the hydrant. Yeah, that's one that's almost impossible to practically obey.
My wife once got a ticket in Boston for an expired meter. The meter was labeled as being in effect until 6pm. The ticket was issued at around 6:30.
When she went to fight it the traffic judge was adamant that she should know all meters in the city are enforced until 8pm. He let it go but warned her not to do it again.
A few weeks later she ran into one of the parking enforcement people who said that they know a handful of meters are labeled wrong, but despite reporting them nothing ever happens. He said they do try to be lenient and ignore cars parked in those spots between 6pm and 8pm but sometimes they’re just so frazzled from the day that they forget…
I can’t believe you got a ticket for speeding 53 in a 50! What state do you live in that police are that eager to give a ticket? Cops will only be that strict where I live in 25mph zones, usually school zones or a place where the highway goes through the middle of town.
They say something around here like: +8, you’re great. +9, you’re mine. And that is actually pretty low for how much I’ve seen people speed here (+15 sometimes, even on 2-lane highways like you’re talking about). I got ticketed for a +13.
In california, near an upscale/wealthy neighborhood with otherwise low crime. Its how the police department stays well funded I'm sure.
We call that a speed trap. Its kind of a cost of doing business. You should continue driving like normal people do.
Sounds like it. You could fight it if you have the time and will. Most likely (though take this with a grain of salt because I’m in the Midwest which is clearly different), the officer won’t see it as worth his time to go to the court hearing, especially if the fine is low.
Yeah it feels like the fine is just high enough to justify them making money from the stop, but just low enough that it doesn't seem like its worth my time/effort to fight it.
And that’s what they want people to do. Likely it isn’t enough money for the officer to go after either, so you could just fight it to make sure they don’t get the money, if you have the time. It’s cool if you don’t.
I think traffic laws in many cases cause more issues than they solve, though I don’t know enough to really say which types of laws are problematic.
I do notice that a lot of drivers which go over the speed limit because it’s too low tend to overdo it, driving too fast instead, for example. On roads where the speed limit is fairly high most people seem to drive at a speed close to it.
I also read a study a few years ago which claimed that removing speed limits actually causes most people to drive slower, but I can’t find it right now.
I had this experience in driving on wide open highway in nevada, the speed limit was 80 and to my surprise traffic was moving at maybe 83-ish. If I was doing 80 exactly it wouldn't cause any issues at all. That speed can easily be considered safe by anyone because there's effectively nothing to hit.
However, I still think that speed limits (25/35/50mph zones) are actually reasonable and the issue is that the majority of people vastly underestimate how impact forces and stopping distances are effected with increased speed. Decades ago, doing 60mph in a car was generally terrifying, now cars are so smooth and refined that it feels like nothing. I don't care how well-engineered your car is, though, it doesn't change the amount of force created on impact. In fact its even worse now with cars being so much heavier in general.
It’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Welcome to the real world.
Where do you live? I do the speed limit all the time. Only get a random pissy BMW once a month or so.
Just ignore them. If they want to be idiots, let them. Doesn't mean you have to as well.
I'm going to remember this question next time I see one of those "BuT cYcLIsTs!" idiots.
Car drivers are the only group of people who can disregard the laws that govern them, risk the lives of everyone around them, and then cry that 1% of the time they get penalized for it.
It's been like 20 years that, at least where I am there is automatic speed camera and a zero tolerance policy, people get fine and loose points even for small speeding so if you want to keep your licence, no choice
Not stopping at a stop? This looks dangerous like hell. Please think about the kid on a bike who might have the right of way, let her live
Im talking about “rolling stops” like everyone does. Slow down to 0.5mph and look both ways before continuing.
It's incorrect to think of most road laws as being in place for safety, instead recognize that it's largely a tax by another name. It is never safe to drive 20mph below prevailing traffic, regardless of what the sign on the side of the road instructs.
To avoid fines, pay attention and try to avoid routes where there are often cops collecting a toll, especially during quieter times when you're one of a smaller number of commuters (and more likely to be the sucker who gets pinged). If you're white, congratulations, you're way less likely to be the unlucky party who gets pinged.
Have you tried following traffic laws in GTA games? That is insane indeed.
I also follow traffic laws. People often rage at me completely unprovoked, and I've been in more collisions than I can count.
What matters is you are not responsible for the actions of others. Yes driving 60 in a 25 is incredibly dangerous. See what happens when you slam on the brakes for the work zone sign, it's absurd.
But it's not our job to police that. The best we can do is follow the law, try to avoid the idiots, and collect the insurance money when they do hit us and move on.
Uh, what? This whole post feels like rage bait or you live in a very angry and unsafe area. I don't experience any of this.
No one gets a ticket for a 53 in a 50 and if you actually did it would get thrown out in court. Definitely fight that.
2 Lane roads. I hate em. But but that's all I have within 10 miles of me. I pass people, people pass me, no one is blaring their horn and brake checking (which is extremely dangerous) at all, much less daily.
Never in my 30 years of driving have a had someone lose their shit over stopping at a stop sign or a red light. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen someone run a red light.
And while people do speed in work zones, doing 60 in a 25 work zone will lose you your license here. That would be an exceptionally stupid thing to do.
This reads like an angry exaggerated rant by someone pissed they got a ticket. If it's not, I'm sorry you live in an area full of unsafe angry people.
This sounds too ludicrous not to be made up.
I've received a LOT of speeding tickets in my life. The only time I've EVER gotten a ticket for doing <5 mph over the posted limit is when I was actually doing +14 over the posted limit but the cop wrote it for 10 less than actual because he had to write a ticket but didn't want it to be excessive....so the final ticket ended up being 54 in a 50 zone.
I can't imagine anyone not being able to beat a +3 over speeding ticket in court. I probably wouldn't even call my attorney for that and would just fight it myself.
I'm not sure where you live, but in many places if the speed of traffic is faster than the speed limit, you're expected to follow that, if you can do so safely, because driving slowly causes the reckless behavior you mentioned and can actually be more dangerous
Many places? Where are you from? I’d like to see that written down in a law book before putting that theory to the test 😉
It's true for motorcycles in the UK. You're taught to keep up with the prevailing traffic because you're too vulnerable not to. You don't fail your test for speeding if it's appropriate in the circumstances.
Cars can get pulled over for going too slow and holding people up. But obv not if they're doing at or close to the speed limit.
please see my other answer
I'm in the US, California specifically. I actually thought this was true here but I can't find any state law where the "limit" in speed limit is not a hard limit. You can get a ticket for doing 11 mph in a 10mph zone, but the only leeway is a 10% suggestion given to police officers to allow for speedometer calibration. It will likely get thrown out in court but they can still ticket you for it.
In California it's mainly based on section 22350:
From the handbook:
True but this only applies up to the posted speed limit. You are never under any circumstances allowed to exceed the posted limit per 22348: https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/vehicle-code/veh-sect-22348/
What you posted means you are not allowed to drive faster than is safe for the road conditions. 65mph in a 65 is too fast if there is dense fog for example.
“Its OK to speed if everyone else is doing it” is not part of any law or in any handbook.
Your right, but this also creates a catch-22, where you have to break at least one laws. Your either impeding the flow of traffic, or your speeding. Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.
In the US speed limits are usually set by what speed the average motorist drives.
"After receiving a speeding ticket for doing 53 in a 50..."
How to tell me you're not caucasian without telling me your not caucasian.
It's plenty easy, but it's not as if I give enough of a damn about them to actually follow traffic laws unless there's a cop there