I like how they'll get away with it because if you say to arm up and use direct action against violent Nazis on this site you get banned and a mod sends you a message telling you to get help.
You're selling the dems short. They've shown theyre capable of facilitating genocide, sending the police to kick the shit out of politically activated college students, the kind who get all their friends to vote, funding ICE, building bigger "migrants overflow facilities".
Well Trump won in 2024 so obviously that means the american people want conservative policy. Trump moved right, that means if we run on Trumps 2024 platform, every Republican except the wackos further right than Trump will vote for us! And everyone to their left has to vote for us anyway! W/Elon 2028!
Not even kidding, they call it median voter theory, and genuinely believe the best way to win an election is by 1. Promote the furthest right republican candidate. 2. Triangulate the dem candidate's positions to be 1 iota to the left of the republican.
This is how they justify compromised, means-tested policies instead of universal policies; the ones that provide immediate material improvements to people's lives are too far left, the ineffective policies that help nobody are more in line with what republican would want the dems to pass.
When this fails, they can only conclude that their policy was too far left.
I honestly think that the Dem’s big tent policy from the Obama administration (remember the Blue Dog Dems?) has caused them to become infected by ‘temporarily embarrassed Republicans’ who have slowly but surely used their money and influence to shift the party rightward.
Think of all those ‘Never Trumpers’, and where they’ve wound up - hell, Kamala was spruiking Liz Cheney!
Australia is going through its own self-destruction of our mainstream right-wing party - but at least they had the good graces to split into their own loose coalition of ‘independents’ (Teals) instead of infecting our Labor party.
It goes back further, Clinton cut welfare and passed draconian, racist anti-drug laws accepting Reagan's "welfare queens" and "crack babies predisposed to crime" canard the same way Obama built the cages to punish illegal criminal migrants and made healthcare about "skin in the game", meaning poor paying for health insurance and Harris ran on the most lethal military in history and stopping the migrant invasion.
Undoubtedly; I guess I’m more pointing to the point that I think the ‘neo-liberal’ cancer metastasised within the DNC.
Carrying forward with the analogy, it will take a significant commit through radiotherapy (primary challenges to corpo-Dems), chemotherapy (promoting radical left-wing policies), and surgery (forgoing corporate funding in favour of grass-roots support) in order for the party to survive.
Okay, but have you considered that these are the policies we like too, and if we can deprive you if other options, we're just going to do them, and you're a fascist fir not getting on your knees and praising us?
This is unironically how FPTP systems work. You ALWAYS have to vote for the lesser evil, because if you don’t and the bigger one wins, the other one will shift even more to the right since they know actual voters lean more towards them.
Except thats not how anyone who might vote dem works. There is no mythical moderate who won't vote for free healthcare, but will vote for subsidies for employer-based health insurance purchased through 1 of 50 market places where you have no idea what it will cost each month, what it will cover, what portion of the healthcare cost it will cover, or what the top line bill will be for literally any procedure.
They’re not aiming for “moderates” at this point, they’re straight-up aiming for right-wingers. Right-wingers who have a working brain, and when given the choice between a right-wing party and literal fascism, they’ll vote the former. People who like Liz Cheney, basically.
That's why FPTP doesn't work. It's a broken electoral system that produces exactly this result, because the majority of people are not willing to vote for lesser evils and you can't make them no matter how much you scream at them for letting Trump win.
Oh no, FPTP works very well, for the two main parties. That’s why neither ever bothered to change it. You’re strong-armed into voting for the lesser evil because if you don’t, everything just keeps getting worse.
This way you can build a party on a cult of personality revolving on a cartoon villain and get votes, because cults strengthen participation, and another party that is allowed to do literally anything as long as they’re “not as bad as” the other. It’s absolutely perfect for rich people in power who only care about their own benefits.
And the worst thing is, people keep falling for it. They think they’re giving some sort of comeuppance to the Dems by not voting, but the reality is they don’t care that much if they win or not. They’re rich, they can survive four more years of Trump as long as they don’t oppose him too much.
Hell, at this point the worst thing you can do to the DNC (besides actually voting for progressives in primaries) is getting them elected, multiple times in a row, so many that the Overton Window shifts and they’ll be forced to actually act as a leftist party because Republicans won’t be able to fash their way into power if they want to get elected.
Of course, the purpose of a system is what it does.
But that means there is no path to fixing anything through voting, and in fact, the worst thing is people believing that voting "works" and voting is the only thing they have to do to change the system. We aren't going to give Democrats comeuppance to Democrats by voting for them either. Voting is a busybox.
Consistently electing Democrats will force Republicans to become “less of a threat”, which will force Democrats to have an actual platform since “the other guy” getting elected isn’t as scary anymore. It’s all about shifting the window.
The path to fixing the system through voting exists, it’s just not viable as long as people keep staying home because “they don’t like either candidate”.
And if people can’t move their asses to do something as simple as voting, I really doubt they have what it takes to actually do “something else” resulting in concrete changes.
I'm BEGGING YOU on my KNEES! We need ONE MORE GIFT to FIGHT BACK the CONSERVATIVE AGENDA. We can't stop TRUMP, his MAGA CRONIES, and the CORRUPT REPUBLICANS without your HELP! Will you STAND WITH BERNIE and DONATE NOW? $20=$560. Select your answer below!
HELL YES: bullshiturl com
NO I DON'T SUPPORT DEMOCRACY: catholicgrandmaguilttrips.com
Hey but the cities around me had protests that went till 2pm, only on a non-work day and family friendly so everyone could get their photo ops and be home in time to watch the game. That's surley going to change things right? ... right?
I understand a bit deeper than that actually. These things aren't happening with a two hour march on the weekend. This reeks of the BLM protests, where people just wanted to return to the status quo and go back to brunch. And people did go back to brunch and things just continued getting worse, with no systemic changes.
Nah thats kinda my point actually. It was a two hour photo-op, after which everyone dispersed to go shopping. No real demands, no shutting down of anything, state sanctioned, and directed by the police. That's not a protest, it's a parade. Offers no real contention, and no real threat to the powers that be. Often just serves to placate people into thinking they've "done their part" and go back to their normal lives as everything gets worse, and curbs people from real organizing.
Not from the USA, very simple for me. I would go outside and talk to people what they think. If they are pro Trump, see why that is. Then show them how he is absolutely not doing anything for them, based on quotes of him directly, if possible.
God if only it were that easy. People aren't joking when they say trump could shit on a republican's face and they'd still blame Biden/Obama/Minorities
In all seriousness, they are cult. They did not logic themselves into their views, so showing proof does nothing. You pushing back (in ANY way) simply make you one of the "others" they are warned about. Doesn't matter if you were previously considered family, friend, or stranger. Like literally nothing will get through to the peoples who are still stanning DJT until they themselves get hurt to such a high degree AND have no one else to blame (because if there is anyone else they even think they can blame instead, they absolutely will).
They are conditioned to excuse his behavior at turn even when it makes zero sense and completely verifiable. They do not believe what they can see with their own eyes. Fox and now the mainstream media puts out a ton of propaganda which also contributes. Finally, they truly don't know how to do scientific research because they don't respect science (see vaccine deniers, handling of COVID, bird flu, Measels, etc.).
I appreciate the thought and desire to improve things and a rational response. Unfortumately, we're not dealing with rational individuals. They will not accept any views contrary to their own no matter how much factual, verifiable evidence you put in front of them.
They will excuse any behavior someone on their side exhibits and will deflect to immidiately talk about something dems did. If they provide a valid example, and you say, "Yes, and that person should also be investigated and punished," they still won't admit that their guy did anything wrong.
This is a cult and we aren't just saying that. So you can't just talk them out of it. While some of their views may be valid, they often seek extreme measures to enact their views. Even their good ideas are soiled.
I'm totally willing to sit down and have a conversation with a conservative, but I draw the line at blind idolatry.
The thing is, even some people like flat earthers etc. can be brought to reason when you actually listen to them and tell them how they are wrong. There are a few interviews with such people, which is why I think it is always worth talking to people.
Fuck all the assholes that voted Jill Stein over Palestine or some stupid reason like that. It never was about Palestinians, and these assholes got us here: Hell
Fuck Joe Biden and team for watching the devolution to fascism happening in real time and deciding to spend their time doing genocide instead of stopping fascism.
I still can't believe they sat on their fucking hands after Trump's multiple indictments, and did nothing to prevent the dude from running again after breaking the law 90+ times. What a useless party. All they did was try to look good.
Shouting Bidens sins was the only way to get them to run a candidatewho coukd have had a shot. Its the DNCs fault she positioned herself to commit the same sins.
I did not make genocide unpopular, the only way the dems could have won was if they did everything in their power to fight Republicans and improve people's material conditions and promised even more after the election. The only thing I could do was try to stop them from deluding themselves that they could win with dogshit policy and 4 years of telling their constituents to eat shit while working with Republicans.
I can't tell if I have a higher opinion of you because I think you could have done better, or if I have a lower opinion of you because you won't accept you failed. Either way no, you didn't choose the best strategy you could have.
The only strategy that could have worked was to get the dems to run an electable platform. Telling critics to shut up and vote helps them maintain the delusion the can win with the right messaging or moving further to the right. Nothing I could possibly say to a random potential voter will be as effective as "the dems ar e the reason you have free healthcare", "the Republicans will restart the genocide in Palestine", or "remember that time Biden's AG threw Trump and a dozen republican congressmen in prison for treason?"
We are not accelerationist. We are realist. And you have your head stuck up your bum. America is an imperialist empire and fascists are the useful idiots of the empire. The chemist watches chemicals change, so do people who have political literacy. What is happening is not a surprise. Liberals are controlled opposition and they work on behalf of the military industrial complex. Love me, love me, I'm a liberal. Leaning in to smell your own brand I bet. Kahlama lama ding dong there's nothing but a pig. And as I change my framework and I'm honest with myself, I listen to her talk and she sounds almost like she doesn't even want to be there. The Democrats are losing. Not only because there is no way you're going to stop this train, but because they're too fat and happy. Oh Nancy! Where's Nancy? Probably too busy getting rich. You can't just watch YouTube and TV and act like you're an expert on politics. I listen to the right wing because they are the byproduct of a failing capitalist system and they have needs as well. And they might project their insecurities on you, but at the same time, they are the confused proletariat.
You're right, Kamala didn't want to be there. She wanted to lose. And you were fool enough to give her exactly what she wanted. Why did you work with Kamala? Why help her?? Are you working for the liberal oligarchy too?
Propaganda doesn't have to be inaccurate to be propaganda.
All it needs to do is fulfill an ulterior intent
The old Uncle Sam 'I want you' posters weren't even factual claims but they certainly were propaganda that led to many people signing up that would have otherwise lived.
Yeah all those third party voters who if they all voted for Kamala wouldn't have changed the results of any state are to blame. Not picking unpopular polices, or breaking away from Biden who was a deeply unpopular candidate. It's the people who had zero impact state and federal level.
Not worth listening to, but big enough to blame. The enemy is weak and strong.
You know there's more to vote for than president right, and more things that effect you directly. Not even dwelling on the fact that politicians earning your vote is the cornerstone of democracy, not candidates that have your vote no matter what because how awful the other guy is.
Always curious to hear when people lash out at other voters who have clear concise demands and a non-cursory grasp of politics if they spent the time to research and vote for the different props in their area, or if they just read the ads each side puts forth and just pick one. Or worse yet, skips them or randomly bubbles.
If you’re voting or not voting for one soul reason and only one soul reason then you are both a victim and enabler of The Southern Strategy. You did everything the GOP asked of you. You got played.
First of all, the fuck you think I didn't have more than one reason?
Second, the southern strategy is about otherizing minorities to keep the working class fighting amongst ourselves, not about "single issue voting" as you seem to imply.
Third, a line in the sand is not the same thing as single issue voting. And (talking about the Gaza Genocide as you're implying) genocide is a pretty hard fucking line in the sand. Your privledge is showing
Your lack of situational understanding is showing.
Edit: and the southern strategy used race as a single issue vote strategy during the Nixon Goldwater era, the core of it is single issue voting. Get people to vote, or not vote, for a singular issue and everything else is on the table. Hence the chorus of “I didn’t vote for this.”
You are scapegoating a tiny minority of people, of only about 0.5%. You are no different than the conservatives, maybe you should consider joining them instead?
With how things are shifting, if they stick with them in 2028, they'll be 2016 Republicans. They're already doing a lot of the policies and voting for it.
Question: I'm not one for protesting and marching in the street. I'm sure it matters, but I'm introverted and large crowds make me very anxious. I also have health condition that needs regular management and live in the rurals, most of my time is spent at home. What can I do to actually help?
I already donate to causes I care about regularly, such as my local food bank, wikipedia, NPR, and PBS. Is there something else I can or should be doing? I hate what's happening to the US right now, but I don't feel like I have much, if any power to do anything about it or help, outside of donating to charitable causes.
You can search for local mutual aid groups. You won't have to be in crowds but you can still help with organizing, and making a difference on the ground. Logistics and administration are crazy helpful.
Most activist groups will leave flyers in your local coffee shops and libraries. That and literally just googling "local activist groups" wouldn't be a bad place to start
Plenty of groups just need data entry if you can't do much outside of the house. Otherwise educating yourself and your friends and family goes a long way. Try to keep in touch with your neighbors. Support where you can as you can
They're often networked pretty well so check in with the bigger orgs, Food Not Bombs, or Mutual Aid Disaster Relief asking then to point you towards local orgs.
You may also be able to find an org by searching. "Mutual aid" + your nearest city, state, or alternative name for region (e.g. "twin cities").
I love how American's are all proud of their "No Kings" turnout but are too stupid to realize at the end of the day it means nothing. It changes nothing. Trump and his Christian Nationalist handlers don't give a shit and don't even have to pay attention to it. The county is still falling down.
Where's Nancy Pelosi? Probably too busy getting rich. These Democrats supported a genocide and they got us in this position because all they are is controlled opposition. In order to have any thoughts about domestic politics in the imperial core, you need to understand the world as a whole. Liberals struggle to do this. This little island called the United States likes to smell its own brand. I think the right-wing piglets call this fuck around and find out. At least these fascist neoliberals are actually working for their money nowadays. You ain't getting no tears from me. I saw it down the track, a hundred miles away. There is no fucking war, but the class war
Your statement suggests you don’t know what liberals are
Liberals are just people who believe in limited to no government
As Trump is authoritative they wouldn’t support him but that doesn’t mean they side with leftists. And you’ll find authoritative leftists, like those that complain about Liberals
This is a great example of the political illiteracy in this country, it’s not just MAGA, U.S. citizens are stupid as fuck en masse and don’t have any idea what they believe for the most part.
Maybe Lemmy cares, but in practice Americans don't & even the left doesn't pay this as much thought as the weirdos here do.
Finer distinctions don't come up all that much in the media or the press, only here.
Almost like this place is an echo chamber.
Liberals are the left, conservatives are the right, and everything else is more extreme grades in those respective directions.
In North America, liberalism almost exclusively means social liberalism: progressivism, the expansion of civil & political rights, endorsement of social justice, social services, mixed economy, government intervention to address economic & social issues while emphasizing individual rights and autonomy.
That's almost all the left except for the fringier, authoritarian elements.
That's the conventional breakdown in the US, it's fairly coherent, and anything else is noise that isn't speaking their language & doesn't seem to get us anywhere.
This is just the lie you've been fed by neoliberals for the last 40 years so they could take everything we've worked for. There's a reason why the Democrats lost control of the working class. It's this exact mindset.
See?
Nonsense: there is no lie over a difference in words.
The fact remains that in the US liberal is used broadly to encompass nearly all the left & folk here are arguing over words, ie, a merely verbal dispute.
Liberal doesn't mean what you say it means in the US: it doesn't mean classical liberalism, conservative liberalism, or neoliberalism (who are called conservative here).
Modern usage & definitions explains it.
While Democrats have lost the working class, it's more over the loss of unions, the party's realignment with middle class professionals, & declining populist appeal than with the meanings of words that decide whether "a leftist is a liberal".
Hell year one! Hasn't even been 6 months.
Judge arrested
There probably won’t be midterm elections. If there are, it will be with armed ICE agents accosting people in line to vote and making arrests.
Time to play dress-up and vote in your best MAGA outfit. But I'll warn you--you can't out MAGA me, I'm Latino, after all. 😂
Believe it or not, straight to an El Salvador death camp
After letting him vote for sure :)
Talk to me when Trump cancels the gubernatorial elections in NJ and VA. Then we can worry about cancelling the midterms.
I like how they'll get away with it because if you say to arm up and use direct action against violent Nazis on this site you get banned and a mod sends you a message telling you to get help.
No way the party incapable of doing anything defeated by the party capable of only evil, never would have seen this coming
You're selling the dems short. They've shown theyre capable of facilitating genocide, sending the police to kick the shit out of politically activated college students, the kind who get all their friends to vote, funding ICE, building bigger "migrants overflow facilities".
DNC: Oh no! Our fellow party members have been harassed and killed.
Also DNC: Anyway....
But but but....there "sounding the alarm". You don't understand it's sooooo hard to run candidates someone would really vote for. (sarcasm)
Well Trump won in 2024 so obviously that means the american people want conservative policy. Trump moved right, that means if we run on Trumps 2024 platform, every Republican except the wackos further right than Trump will vote for us! And everyone to their left has to vote for us anyway! W/Elon 2028!
Is this sarcasm a cult of personality doesn't depend on positions
It is satire of dem logic since Bill Clinton.
Not even kidding, they call it median voter theory, and genuinely believe the best way to win an election is by 1. Promote the furthest right republican candidate. 2. Triangulate the dem candidate's positions to be 1 iota to the left of the republican.
This is how they justify compromised, means-tested policies instead of universal policies; the ones that provide immediate material improvements to people's lives are too far left, the ineffective policies that help nobody are more in line with what republican would want the dems to pass.
When this fails, they can only conclude that their policy was too far left.
I honestly think that the Dem’s big tent policy from the Obama administration (remember the Blue Dog Dems?) has caused them to become infected by ‘temporarily embarrassed Republicans’ who have slowly but surely used their money and influence to shift the party rightward.
Think of all those ‘Never Trumpers’, and where they’ve wound up - hell, Kamala was spruiking Liz Cheney!
Australia is going through its own self-destruction of our mainstream right-wing party - but at least they had the good graces to split into their own loose coalition of ‘independents’ (Teals) instead of infecting our Labor party.
It goes back further, Clinton cut welfare and passed draconian, racist anti-drug laws accepting Reagan's "welfare queens" and "crack babies predisposed to crime" canard the same way Obama built the cages to punish illegal criminal migrants and made healthcare about "skin in the game", meaning poor paying for health insurance and Harris ran on the most lethal military in history and stopping the migrant invasion.
Undoubtedly; I guess I’m more pointing to the point that I think the ‘neo-liberal’ cancer metastasised within the DNC.
Carrying forward with the analogy, it will take a significant commit through radiotherapy (primary challenges to corpo-Dems), chemotherapy (promoting radical left-wing policies), and surgery (forgoing corporate funding in favour of grass-roots support) in order for the party to survive.
Okay, but have you considered that these are the policies we like too, and if we can deprive you if other options, we're just going to do them, and you're a fascist fir not getting on your knees and praising us?
-the dnc
This is unironically how FPTP systems work. You ALWAYS have to vote for the lesser evil, because if you don’t and the bigger one wins, the other one will shift even more to the right since they know actual voters lean more towards them.
Except thats not how anyone who might vote dem works. There is no mythical moderate who won't vote for free healthcare, but will vote for subsidies for employer-based health insurance purchased through 1 of 50 market places where you have no idea what it will cost each month, what it will cover, what portion of the healthcare cost it will cover, or what the top line bill will be for literally any procedure.
They’re not aiming for “moderates” at this point, they’re straight-up aiming for right-wingers. Right-wingers who have a working brain, and when given the choice between a right-wing party and literal fascism, they’ll vote the former. People who like Liz Cheney, basically.
That's why FPTP doesn't work. It's a broken electoral system that produces exactly this result, because the majority of people are not willing to vote for lesser evils and you can't make them no matter how much you scream at them for letting Trump win.
Oh no, FPTP works very well, for the two main parties. That’s why neither ever bothered to change it. You’re strong-armed into voting for the lesser evil because if you don’t, everything just keeps getting worse.
This way you can build a party on a cult of personality revolving on a cartoon villain and get votes, because cults strengthen participation, and another party that is allowed to do literally anything as long as they’re “not as bad as” the other. It’s absolutely perfect for rich people in power who only care about their own benefits.
And the worst thing is, people keep falling for it. They think they’re giving some sort of comeuppance to the Dems by not voting, but the reality is they don’t care that much if they win or not. They’re rich, they can survive four more years of Trump as long as they don’t oppose him too much.
Hell, at this point the worst thing you can do to the DNC (besides actually voting for progressives in primaries) is getting them elected, multiple times in a row, so many that the Overton Window shifts and they’ll be forced to actually act as a leftist party because Republicans won’t be able to fash their way into power if they want to get elected.
Of course, the purpose of a system is what it does.
But that means there is no path to fixing anything through voting, and in fact, the worst thing is people believing that voting "works" and voting is the only thing they have to do to change the system. We aren't going to give Democrats comeuppance to Democrats by voting for them either. Voting is a busybox.
Do something else.
Consistently electing Democrats will force Republicans to become “less of a threat”, which will force Democrats to have an actual platform since “the other guy” getting elected isn’t as scary anymore. It’s all about shifting the window.
The path to fixing the system through voting exists, it’s just not viable as long as people keep staying home because “they don’t like either candidate”.
And if people can’t move their asses to do something as simple as voting, I really doubt they have what it takes to actually do “something else” resulting in concrete changes.
Don't WORRY! Democrats ALREADY have the Fundraising text WRITTEN and READY TO GO for when the NEXT Democrat Politician gets Assassinated!
I'm BEGGING YOU on my KNEES! We need ONE MORE GIFT to FIGHT BACK the CONSERVATIVE AGENDA. We can't stop TRUMP, his MAGA CRONIES, and the CORRUPT REPUBLICANS without your HELP! Will you STAND WITH BERNIE and DONATE NOW? $20=$560. Select your answer below!
HELL YES: bullshiturl com
NO I DON'T SUPPORT DEMOCRACY: catholicgrandmaguilttrips.com
Aww, not a real site. Bummer.
https://youtu.be/4wtnaQvdjiM
No donation page on the video or the description or the comments...
*This is just year 1/3. There will be eleven times more of this before Trump's term is (theoretically) over.
thr year is nearly halfway over already so its closer to 1/2
The year is only just starting to get to the halfway mark. It's only been 4 months and 25 days since inauguration.
Fuuuuuuuck
When you put it like that I get even more depressed
Samesies
Right, you got me there.
Pointing it out, and spreading the message is the first step to getting a critical mass required to affect real change.
Instead of shouting it down, maybe take up the chant.
Let's not forget all the Bad Things™ the Republicans have dealt with this year! They have:
A Republican-funding billionaire throwing a tantrum at Daddy Donny.
A Republican senator arrested for CSAM.
Good American patriots are being targeted and singled out! Woe is them, it's not fair! /s
For those of you keeping track, for this week it’s MAGA 5 / “Resistance” 0
Hey but the cities around me had protests that went till 2pm, only on a non-work day and family friendly so everyone could get their photo ops and be home in time to watch the game. That's surley going to change things right? ... right?
I understand a bit deeper than that actually. These things aren't happening with a two hour march on the weekend. This reeks of the BLM protests, where people just wanted to return to the status quo and go back to brunch. And people did go back to brunch and things just continued getting worse, with no systemic changes.
We need more than a two hour photo-op.
I went to table myself, and saw none or even lingering crowds, but granted it seems like it may have been a local phenomenom for me.
I was just expecting more out of San Francisco
Nah thats kinda my point actually. It was a two hour photo-op, after which everyone dispersed to go shopping. No real demands, no shutting down of anything, state sanctioned, and directed by the police. That's not a protest, it's a parade. Offers no real contention, and no real threat to the powers that be. Often just serves to placate people into thinking they've "done their part" and go back to their normal lives as everything gets worse, and curbs people from real organizing.
I don’t know. I think it took at LEAST four “peaceful protests” to stop the Nazis, so you still have a way to go.
It is only half way into year 1 FFS
Technically it's been almost 5 months.
Year 1? Fuck is not even been 5 whole months
So you can see where this is going? What are you going to do about it? What are even realistic options? Perhaps a strongly worded post on X?
Luigi's Haunted Mansion
Instead of bitching in the same public manner they are informing people on, what's YOUR resolution..or do you just complain about others
Not from the USA, very simple for me. I would go outside and talk to people what they think. If they are pro Trump, see why that is. Then show them how he is absolutely not doing anything for them, based on quotes of him directly, if possible.
God if only it were that easy. People aren't joking when they say trump could shit on a republican's face and they'd still blame Biden/Obama/Minorities
In all seriousness, they are cult. They did not logic themselves into their views, so showing proof does nothing. You pushing back (in ANY way) simply make you one of the "others" they are warned about. Doesn't matter if you were previously considered family, friend, or stranger. Like literally nothing will get through to the peoples who are still stanning DJT until they themselves get hurt to such a high degree AND have no one else to blame (because if there is anyone else they even think they can blame instead, they absolutely will).
They are conditioned to excuse his behavior at turn even when it makes zero sense and completely verifiable. They do not believe what they can see with their own eyes. Fox and now the mainstream media puts out a ton of propaganda which also contributes. Finally, they truly don't know how to do scientific research because they don't respect science (see vaccine deniers, handling of COVID, bird flu, Measels, etc.).
I appreciate the thought and desire to improve things and a rational response. Unfortumately, we're not dealing with rational individuals. They will not accept any views contrary to their own no matter how much factual, verifiable evidence you put in front of them.
They will excuse any behavior someone on their side exhibits and will deflect to immidiately talk about something dems did. If they provide a valid example, and you say, "Yes, and that person should also be investigated and punished," they still won't admit that their guy did anything wrong.
This is a cult and we aren't just saying that. So you can't just talk them out of it. While some of their views may be valid, they often seek extreme measures to enact their views. Even their good ideas are soiled.
I'm totally willing to sit down and have a conversation with a conservative, but I draw the line at blind idolatry.
Here's a perfect example of just how indoctrinated these people are from The Daily Show https://youtube.com/shorts/w_Ve3_dwlbs
This made me so mad
The thing is, even some people like flat earthers etc. can be brought to reason when you actually listen to them and tell them how they are wrong. There are a few interviews with such people, which is why I think it is always worth talking to people.
You clearly are not from the US if you think MAGA fuckheads are reasonable.
Come on over and give it a try genius.
This is the kind of american that is pro trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9If_IEAMitQ
Great. Now I have to watch that movie.
Highly recommended. A very good film and very apropos to what's happening right now
Fuck all the assholes that voted Jill Stein over Palestine or some stupid reason like that. It never was about Palestinians, and these assholes got us here: Hell
You brought all of us here, you deserve nothing
Fuck Joe Biden and team for watching the devolution to fascism happening in real time and deciding to spend their time doing genocide instead of stopping fascism.
I still can't believe they sat on their fucking hands after Trump's multiple indictments, and did nothing to prevent the dude from running again after breaking the law 90+ times. What a useless party. All they did was try to look good.
Be fair. They also sold weapons to netanyahu for genocide.
Not just that but ABSOLUTELY REFUSING to defend the country from domestic terrorism
And fuck all the accelerationists who, instead of telling people to vote for Harris anyway, shouted her sins from the rooftops down at the voters.
Shouting Bidens sins was the only way to get them to run a candidatewho coukd have had a shot. Its the DNCs fault she positioned herself to commit the same sins.
So you're saying you took a risky gambit hoping the Democrats would improve, and they didn't, and you got a fascist elected?
Who could have predicted thaaaaaaaaat.
I did not make genocide unpopular, the only way the dems could have won was if they did everything in their power to fight Republicans and improve people's material conditions and promised even more after the election. The only thing I could do was try to stop them from deluding themselves that they could win with dogshit policy and 4 years of telling their constituents to eat shit while working with Republicans.
I can't tell if I have a higher opinion of you because I think you could have done better, or if I have a lower opinion of you because you won't accept you failed. Either way no, you didn't choose the best strategy you could have.
The only strategy that could have worked was to get the dems to run an electable platform. Telling critics to shut up and vote helps them maintain the delusion the can win with the right messaging or moving further to the right. Nothing I could possibly say to a random potential voter will be as effective as "the dems ar e the reason you have free healthcare", "the Republicans will restart the genocide in Palestine", or "remember that time Biden's AG threw Trump and a dozen republican congressmen in prison for treason?"
We are not accelerationist. We are realist. And you have your head stuck up your bum. America is an imperialist empire and fascists are the useful idiots of the empire. The chemist watches chemicals change, so do people who have political literacy. What is happening is not a surprise. Liberals are controlled opposition and they work on behalf of the military industrial complex. Love me, love me, I'm a liberal. Leaning in to smell your own brand I bet. Kahlama lama ding dong there's nothing but a pig. And as I change my framework and I'm honest with myself, I listen to her talk and she sounds almost like she doesn't even want to be there. The Democrats are losing. Not only because there is no way you're going to stop this train, but because they're too fat and happy. Oh Nancy! Where's Nancy? Probably too busy getting rich. You can't just watch YouTube and TV and act like you're an expert on politics. I listen to the right wing because they are the byproduct of a failing capitalist system and they have needs as well. And they might project their insecurities on you, but at the same time, they are the confused proletariat.
You're right, Kamala didn't want to be there. She wanted to lose. And you were fool enough to give her exactly what she wanted. Why did you work with Kamala? Why help her?? Are you working for the liberal oligarchy too?
What is this cacophonous radical ideology that makes the MLs give their sensible arguments? I MUST HAVE THIS POWER
For those that are confused, the above comment is an excellent example of propaganda
Is it inaccurate to say Biden/Garland slow rolled arresting Trump?
Propaganda doesn't have to be inaccurate to be propaganda.
All it needs to do is fulfill an ulterior intent
The old Uncle Sam 'I want you' posters weren't even factual claims but they certainly were propaganda that led to many people signing up that would have otherwise lived.
It just has to disagree with your worldview.
Incorrect, there's plenty of propaganda that agrees with my worldview, and that's the most insidious and most important to be vigilant against.
Why are you putting words into my mouth? Scared of a conversation?
I'm not. I'm outright saying that you dismiss anything that disagrees with you as propaganda.
So facts are propaganda now. Got it.
Actually yes. Something can be both true and shown in a biased or misleading way.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda
The dictionary proving me wrong is propaganda! /s
Fair enough, however.
If anti-genocide Americans weren't significant enough to listen to, they're not significant enough to blame.
Concepts like that are too logical for the Liberal mind to comprehend
Need that on a t shirt
Yeah all those third party voters who if they all voted for Kamala wouldn't have changed the results of any state are to blame. Not picking unpopular polices, or breaking away from Biden who was a deeply unpopular candidate. It's the people who had zero impact state and federal level.
Not worth listening to, but big enough to blame. The enemy is weak and strong.
It's sad I recognize your username because you always have the dumbest fucking thing to say.
Thankies Bestie!
A brain so smooth its literally frictionless.
fuck the people that never even bothered to vote at all even though it's literally the most important thing you can do as a citizen in a democracy
Funny, because so much of Trump's support came from people who were totally checked out of the process under Romney and McCain.
If you look at his gross turnout, he's presided over an enormous surge in GOP participation.
You know there's more to vote for than president right, and more things that effect you directly. Not even dwelling on the fact that politicians earning your vote is the cornerstone of democracy, not candidates that have your vote no matter what because how awful the other guy is.
Always curious to hear when people lash out at other voters who have clear concise demands and a non-cursory grasp of politics if they spent the time to research and vote for the different props in their area, or if they just read the ads each side puts forth and just pick one. Or worse yet, skips them or randomly bubbles.
If you’re voting or not voting for one soul reason and only one soul reason then you are both a victim and enabler of The Southern Strategy. You did everything the GOP asked of you. You got played.
First of all, the fuck you think I didn't have more than one reason?
Second, the southern strategy is about otherizing minorities to keep the working class fighting amongst ourselves, not about "single issue voting" as you seem to imply.
Third, a line in the sand is not the same thing as single issue voting. And (talking about the Gaza Genocide as you're implying) genocide is a pretty hard fucking line in the sand. Your privledge is showing
Your lack of situational understanding is showing.
Edit: and the southern strategy used race as a single issue vote strategy during the Nixon Goldwater era, the core of it is single issue voting. Get people to vote, or not vote, for a singular issue and everything else is on the table. Hence the chorus of “I didn’t vote for this.”
Point to the state Harris wins with the Green Party vote.
Notice how they can't but will regurgitate their talking points, because fact checking is propaganda, or something.
You should probably spend more time stomping around your basement yelling at the monitor screen
You are scapegoating a tiny minority of people, of only about 0.5%. You are no different than the conservatives, maybe you should consider joining them instead?
With how things are shifting, if they stick with them in 2028, they'll be 2016 Republicans. They're already doing a lot of the policies and voting for it.
Question: I'm not one for protesting and marching in the street. I'm sure it matters, but I'm introverted and large crowds make me very anxious. I also have health condition that needs regular management and live in the rurals, most of my time is spent at home. What can I do to actually help?
I already donate to causes I care about regularly, such as my local food bank, wikipedia, NPR, and PBS. Is there something else I can or should be doing? I hate what's happening to the US right now, but I don't feel like I have much, if any power to do anything about it or help, outside of donating to charitable causes.
Thanks!
You can search for local mutual aid groups. You won't have to be in crowds but you can still help with organizing, and making a difference on the ground. Logistics and administration are crazy helpful.
Any tips on what I should be looking for? Or sites that might help?
Most activist groups will leave flyers in your local coffee shops and libraries. That and literally just googling "local activist groups" wouldn't be a bad place to start
Plenty of groups just need data entry if you can't do much outside of the house. Otherwise educating yourself and your friends and family goes a long way. Try to keep in touch with your neighbors. Support where you can as you can
They're often networked pretty well so check in with the bigger orgs, Food Not Bombs, or Mutual Aid Disaster Relief asking then to point you towards local orgs.
You may also be able to find an org by searching. "Mutual aid" + your nearest city, state, or alternative name for region (e.g. "twin cities").
Blue sky might be a good resource.
A couple more suggestions:
But hey, at least people are gathering in the streets! If there's one thing that fascists hate it's groups of people walking together.
I love how American's are all proud of their "No Kings" turnout but are too stupid to realize at the end of the day it means nothing. It changes nothing. Trump and his Christian Nationalist handlers don't give a shit and don't even have to pay attention to it. The county is still falling down.
This is just the end of month 5.
Where's Nancy Pelosi? Probably too busy getting rich. These Democrats supported a genocide and they got us in this position because all they are is controlled opposition. In order to have any thoughts about domestic politics in the imperial core, you need to understand the world as a whole. Liberals struggle to do this. This little island called the United States likes to smell its own brand. I think the right-wing piglets call this fuck around and find out. At least these fascist neoliberals are actually working for their money nowadays. You ain't getting no tears from me. I saw it down the track, a hundred miles away. There is no fucking war, but the class war
So cool for Democrats to be in functional retirement, but still squat on their House seats like they're taking a lifetime shit.
Fucking Boomers.
Yes, she was born 4 years early to officially be a boomer, but she's definitely a "fuck you, got mine" boomer.
It's only been six months!
"Filthy Communists" - Hitler 1933
On the up side, Nancy Pelosi is running for re-election.
It's all Biden's fault.
You get downvoted, but it's a simple fact that he knew what the threat was and ABSOLUTELY REFUSED to do anything at all to defend the country.
I'm sure if you stand around in large crowds holding a sign it will all go away.
You got it buddy! Being politically active and engaged with your community is how this works.
Side note: Year 1 is an awesome movie with Jack Black and Michael Cera as cavemen who venture out into the world.
Side note: it's actually terrible.
Side note: entertainment is subjective.
This is true, and you're in the minority.
Most people think it's terrible.
IDGAF. Movies being good or bad isn't a binary issue. For that matter neither are most issues.
Lemmy split hairs between leftists & liberals as if that gets us anywhere.
Liberals kill leftists all the fucking time
Their favorite pastime even.
Been doing it so long they proved all the leftists right about everything and half of them turned into fascists even
Your statement suggests you don’t know what liberals are
Liberals are just people who believe in limited to no government
As Trump is authoritative they wouldn’t support him but that doesn’t mean they side with leftists. And you’ll find authoritative leftists, like those that complain about Liberals
I can assure you that in the US of A, that's a distinction without a difference & we just call the left liberals.
This is a great example of the political illiteracy in this country, it’s not just MAGA, U.S. citizens are stupid as fuck en masse and don’t have any idea what they believe for the most part.
No that's just what liberals and their conservative friends like to say so that they can ignore leftists.
Maybe Lemmy cares, but in practice Americans don't & even the left doesn't pay this as much thought as the weirdos here do. Finer distinctions don't come up all that much in the media or the press, only here. Almost like this place is an echo chamber.
Liberals are the left, conservatives are the right, and everything else is more extreme grades in those respective directions.
In North America, liberalism almost exclusively means social liberalism: progressivism, the expansion of civil & political rights, endorsement of social justice, social services, mixed economy, government intervention to address economic & social issues while emphasizing individual rights and autonomy. That's almost all the left except for the fringier, authoritarian elements.
That's the conventional breakdown in the US, it's fairly coherent, and anything else is noise that isn't speaking their language & doesn't seem to get us anywhere.
This is just the lie you've been fed by neoliberals for the last 40 years so they could take everything we've worked for. There's a reason why the Democrats lost control of the working class. It's this exact mindset.
See? Nonsense: there is no lie over a difference in words.
The fact remains that in the US liberal is used broadly to encompass nearly all the left & folk here are arguing over words, ie, a merely verbal dispute. Liberal doesn't mean what you say it means in the US: it doesn't mean classical liberalism, conservative liberalism, or neoliberalism (who are called conservative here). Modern usage & definitions explains it.
While Democrats have lost the working class, it's more over the loss of unions, the party's realignment with middle class professionals, & declining populist appeal than with the meanings of words that decide whether "a leftist is a liberal".
I used to think so, too, until I gave it some thought.
Lefties killing their own. It'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
Incorrect
Conservatives arrested a Democratic mayor.
Conservatives indicted a Democratic congresswoman.
Conservatives tackled and detained a Democratic senator.
Conservatives killed a Democratic state representative.
Conservatives put another state representative in critical condition.
Imagine being this dumb 😂
But like, how would they know they're dumb?
Drank the kool-aid, huh bub?
It's Kaboom. Reddit has r/conservative for kool-aid door to door salesmen, and Lemmy has a handful of well-known names as our fediverse equivalent.