Feddit.org officially announces they will ban criticism of Israel and pro-Palestinian posts and comments.
Feddit.org announced today that they are changing their rules to match German law despite their server not being hosted in Germany.
Feddit.org now bans
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The sentence "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free"
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Comparing Israel to the Nazis
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Calls to end Zionism
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Calling for the dissolution of Israel
And much more. The full original post can be found here, or
::: spoiler Click here for full text of original post:
Hi.
In the past few days, discontent regarding mod decisions in this community has been brewing, particularly when it comes to comments on Palestine, Israel, and Israeli politics and actions. There are also misunderstandings regarding mod intention and German law. We hope to clear that up with this post.
While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. Speaking of, our server admins have also posted a write-up on the same topic.
And with that, let's go:
In Germany, antisemitism is specifically sanctioned in German criminal law, both for speech and as a motivation for other criminal behavior. In addition, Germany seeks to protect the Jewish state of Israel (the so-called "Reason of State" introduced in 2008) and thus verges toward protecting Zionism as well. Certain criticism of Israel/Israelis is also categorized as "Israel-related antisemitism".
Since criminal law is involved, enforcement can mean things like police raids and device confiscations. After such police action, it does not really matter if it was appropriate or if cases are dropped or never charged: The damage is done. All told, it's not that fun.
There is also no point in engaging in discussions about the veracity of statements that could get us into legal trouble. In addition, we believe that you can express most opinions without breaking rules.
If your comment contains the following, it will be removed from this community:
- Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.
- Calling for a destruction, annihilation, an end of all Zionism or the like.
- Equating Israeli actions and (historical) Nazism.
- The slogan "from the river..."
- Endorsement of or justifications for Hamas or Hezbollah, or slogans or graphics positively referring to these organizations. These are considered terrorist organizations in Germany.
- ... and obviously: Any of the common antisemitic tropes or calls to violence against Jews or Israelis
Comments will not be removed for the following:
- Denouncing genocide.
- Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
- Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
- Referring to the current Israeli government as "criminal," "expansionist," or "far-right".
If your comment is removed nonetheless, these are not the reason. I'd also like to stress that this community was never a free-speech-absolutist zone: It is a (usually lightly) moderated community. There may also be times when bans go too far. In such cases, please DM the @[email protected] account (which all mods have access to).
:::spoiler To help you understand why, I'll leave an assortment of sources here (translations via DeepL).
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Berlin in mid-May [2024] around 6 o'clock in the morning. A loud, continuous "banging" against the apartment door wakes student Alina T. from her sleep. [...] When her husband opens the door, several LKA officers, two employees of the district office and the SEK "storm" past him into the apartment. Puzzled, he looks at the search warrant. [...] The background to this was a Facebook entry in the student's profile: "From the river [...]
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In November 2023, the Federal Ministry of the Interior and for Home Affairs also issued a prohibition order against Hamas.[60] According to the order, "the slogan 'From the River to the Sea' (in German or other languages)" is a distinguishing mark of Hamas[61]. [...] the current legal situation [regarding "Denial of Israel's right to exist"] is - contrary to what the statements of the Federal Ministry of Justice suggest[63] - anything but clear. Whether incitements to eliminate the State of Israel are prosecuted depends on the respective legal opinion and the prosecution will of the respective public prosecutor's office.
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Press release from the previous government:
In this context, Section 111 StGB, which covers public incitement to commit crimes, may also be relevant. Incitement to extinguish Israel's existence by force may be punishable under this provision. The same applies to calls to publicly display the Hamas flag. If Hamas attacks are publicly cheered and celebrated, this may also be punishable. This means that people who cheer on Hamas's actions or publicly express their sympathy with the attacks may constitute the criminal offence of "approval of criminal acts" under Section 140 of the German Criminal Code (StGB).
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In connection with the controversial Palestine Congress in Berlin, the German authorities have also imposed an entry ban on former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. "In order to prevent antisemitic and anti-Israel propaganda at the event", several entry bans have been issued, the news agency AFP learned from security sources on Sunday. One of these concerned Varoufakis. (Notably, Varoufakis would have spoken about one-state solutions ...)
federal reverse (on behalf of the mods of !europe)
:::
thank you
Zionism means colonialism not just in practice, but from its very inception:
And yet every self-declared pro-Zionist I've talked to says Zionism is just the right of the state of Israel to exist, and so being anti-Zionist is being for the destruction of the state, and being for the destruction of the state is being for the death or dispossession of every person in the state.
I think the German state is probably more inclined to interpret discussion of Zionism the way the pro-Zionists I've spoken to have describe the term.
I think the historical description in the text that you link is accurate, but if you're trying to argue that Germans should be able to critique Zionism however they want because of that, it's like literally getting into an argument about the literal meaning of literally with people who use literally to mean figuratively, but instead of a random teenager or twee linguistic descriptivist, you are arguing with the state.
Who got the oldest artifacts in Palestine? Doesn't seem colonizing if you have one of the earliest histories somewhere, right? That's why Russia has a right to reclaim Ukraine /s
Who has the oldest artifacts in the Americas? Or Australia?
Oh I fully support America and Australia controls should be handed back to the respective natives if in either situation they would have conflict about territory
Do Greeks get Constantinople, Marseille and Syracuse back?
Yes, and you are free to critizise Zionism for that on Feddit.org. The legal problem is not that, but that the German authorities don't play word games and tend to equate Zionism/Israel/Jews as a shortcut and leave it to courts to decide later if that was justified or not.
They clearly state in one of the rules that I just linked, that calling for an end to zionism is a bannable offense.
The german state is full of witch-hunters and its people have learned nothing.
Yes and as I explained already there is a very specific legal reason for that, but this doesn't mean you can't critizise Zionism or call it a terrible settler-colonialist project.
As for learning from past mistakes... I think you of all people should not throw the first stone there 😅
A misguided or intentionally malicious reason, for what the effect of that law is. Codifying into law the conflation of Judaism/ethnic Jewish identity with zionism is itself antisemitic. Calling for the end of Zionism isn't the same as calling for the end of Jews or Judaism. What is the use of being allowed to criticize Zionism the ideology when you're not also allowed to advocate for its end?
"Zionism is a settler-colonial ideology." <- Ok "Zionism is a settler-colonial ideology, and Israel as a Zionist project should be dissolved in favor of a single-state that provides equal rights for Palestinians" <- Not ok, somehow?
The law as written only allows abstract and dissociated critique of Zionism, but forbids any criticism that comes too close to threatening Israel's existence as a ethno-nationalist state. That's a huge problem.
I didn't make those laws, and I agree that the German government should make more of a distinction between antisemitism and anti-zionism. But it doesn't and honestly in your above example you could just say:
“Zionism is a settler-colonial ideology, and Israel should become a state that provides equal rights for Palestinians”
An no one would object 🤷
This singular and persistent focus on the destruction of the (unfortunatly) already existing state of Israel, really makes it likely that many people rather use that as a dogwistle for antisemitism.
Except the moderation rule feddit has implemented does not allow for this statement, unless you specifically say that jews deserve equal rights in a single-state solution - which is similar to those who respond to 'black lives matter' by saying 'but all lives matter'. Saying 'Palestinians deserve equal rights' wouldn't be necessary if equal rights were already afforded them, and the point of making that statement is to draw attention to the fact that they currently aren't
Nobody who is advocating for Palestinian liberation uses the word "destroy" or 'destruction' when referring to the dissolution of Israel - I only ever see those words used by people trying to make this inference between anti-zionism and antisemitism. The only people who take statements of liberation as a threat against Jews are people who are collaborating or benefiting from the oppression Israel conducts in their name.
Sorry, but you are misinterpreting that rule. What I said is perfectly compatible with the rule. The extension that this also applies to Jews is solely to preempt the common "equal rights and the Jews are free to leave" dogwistle.
And you are highly mistaken that there are no people advocating for the destruction of Israel, in fact it is quite common.
It's so funny how you types are constantly hiding behind the law and saying, "I didn't make the law, I don't agree with it, but they have to do this to avoid legal liability, hands are tied" and then five seconds later you say stuff like, "criticism of Israel is a dogwhistle for antisemitism."
You're a coward, refusing to admit your real positions because you know you can't defend them.
Please don't put words in my mouth. My real position is crystal clear and I am happy to stand by it.
Sounds like they very much do play word games then.
Oh I see. Which is why the admins/mods of Feddit.org are also publicly coming out criticizing the German government for this crackdown on nuanced speech, right? Right?
This part floored me. As if it wasnt Israel that was currently denying equal rights to Palestinians and not the other way around... this is just the zionist version of 'all lives matter' bullshit.
How dare we ignore the trauma of those committing violent oppression?!
sounds like grounds for defederation. protecting fascism is fascism.
If that was the grounds, everyone would defed all ml shit.
there's already calls for that. as someone who's been banned from ml comms, i think this surpasses even ml's usual bs though.
No, it doesn't. Admins of feddit instance are forced by law. ML shit clowns are praising genocides out of their own will.
i thought feddit wasn't hosted in Germany
Sorry bud, but fascism is a capitalist tendency, not a Marxist one. They are literally opposite ends of the political spectrum.
Lol wut? Are you yet another delusional genocide fan boi from ML?
And you’re yet another uneducated troll?
You know what’s funny is that if we met in real life, we’d probably agree on a lot of things.
We probably won't.
I find it more disgusting than .ml and even hexbear, Chinese Human rights violations lean towards cultural genocide, Israel is killing, starving, dislocating and destroying their culture, ethnicity, community and land, it is as bad as it can get, any defence of Israel is disgusting for me, and criticism of Palestine on that front is very ill timed in that manner, you can't worry about 'terrorism' when the alternative is extermination
Wanna take bets .world won't defederate Feddit because muh freeze peach?
That peter griffin chart where freeze peach is for the whites
Freeze peach is when you advocate for murder of brown people, otherwise it's white genocide to not advocate for murder.
yes, it took a while, but the western world order is all but over. There is no justice, honor, decency, or dignity here. Its just pariah states with hollow shells of what used to be democracy. US, Germany, Britain, France-- all failed states playing pretend.
betting 100 dollars (not going to you of course) that feddit will remain federated for .world, sh.itjust.works and my home instance, discuss.online
Damn, I could use that 100 buckazoids 😔
I posted several threads asking for that and got REAMED.
The devs are tankies, the largest instances indirectly support fascism (and the tankies), and the biggest European instance is explicitly choosing to support neonazis.
Lemmy is dead.
CuLtUrAl GeNoCiDe
Go to xiaohongshu right now and look at all the uyghurs sharing their music, food, language, stories, spreading their culture freely on a predominantly chinese app!
Whole ass street festivals in the main streets going on in xinjiang of uyghurs celebrating community
easiest fake news to dispel but god forbid (redd/lemm)itors step out of their bubble
Bro I just got banned for pointing this out today. Like seriously talk to one chinese person in your life feddit mods
samesies!! they will need you to be careful with how you criticize the occupation regime of west palestine for their genocide but bash china for a completely imagined one and ban anyone who disigrees.
has boy boy made a video on Xinjiang I can watch yet?
no idea who youre talking about
They're a youtube channel run by a pair of leftist Australian rascals. They even have a video where they try to enter a CIA base in Australia.
I did not leave reddit to come to a fucked down version of political censorship. fuck you and begone. I'm blocking their instance
Time to defederate Feddit.org.
To bad. They weren't that bad, IME. But denying criticism of a state actively carrying out a globally recognized genocide... that's a strict rule I've adopted.
If midwest.social won't defederate, I'll have to block the whole instance.
The post literally says that you can critizise that 🤦
Please understand that there can be some nuance on the topic and that people in Germany are understandably extra careful on the topic.
So hand over the instance moderation to people in a different jurisdiction, or shut it down entirely. Don't comply with this bullshit.
How about you start your own instance instead of complaining? 🙄
Having an opinion isn't "complaining". I'm not even on that instance, I just happen to care about solidarity with victims of genocide.
Claiming that the genocide, apartheid, and colonialism perpetrated by Israel is in any way complex or nuanced is such a disgustingly smug way of revealing you haven't spent even a moment thinking the situation through, or reading up on the history. Gross.
germans "just following orders" again?
Nah they’re just wimps
Germans should listen to Namibians a bit more. You don't get to play favourites with your genocide victims.
just in: it's reactionary to fully support a group being targeted in a genocide
A knee jerk reaction to genocide denial?
Shit EuropeanSS say
Yikes. 😬
Man, seeing Germany side with genocide once again was fucking not on my bingo card.
I don't imagine things will get better under the new right-wing government either.
Cool, I'll add them to my ban list.
Better yet I am trying to get them to add me to their ban list
Beat you to it without even trying hah
Didn't blaja already defed them?
Nah, that was feddit.uk
Shot you're right. I forgot they were two separate instances tbh.
Lol, they're trying to pretend that the cops will kick down their doors if someone says "free Palestine" on a server they're mods of.
You’re not keeping up with the news from Germany then I take it.
I know that they're repressing opposition to Israel, but I have not heard of them arresting someone just for being a moderator on a website that doesn't follow German law.
The moderators less likely, but the server admins quite likely, as those are legally responsible for the publication. Where the server is physically located is actually of lesser relevance in that regard.
The admins responsible for the Lemmy instance AFAIK live in Germany.
Is their any precedent for social media admins being arrested for comments on the site the administrate?
There are precedences of public forum admins having their homes raided by police and all communication devices confiscated, yes.
Source?
Literally in the original post linked above.
Or here for example: https://netzpolitik.org/2023/linkhaftung-scharfe-kritik-an-razzia-bei-freiburger-radiosender/
I live in Germany, and it's a totally realistic scenario, especially in Bavaria. They seize computers to intimidate digital activists all the time for way less serious topics.
Have they ever raided someone just for being the admin on a social media site?
social media site specifically I don't know, but raids for managing infrastructure for completely legal but politically inconvenient activities, yes, plenty. I remember going to a talk from a guy managing the servers of Extinction Rebellion and he got all his stuff seized, never got accused of anything, had to wait months to get his stuff back and never got back a few things.
Source?
And that's very different to just being an admin on a social media site that doesn't ruthlessly enforce German law.
So here's an article about a raid on an environmentalist group in Germany called Last Generation: https://earth.org/last-generation-activists/
There's a link to the German language statement from the police which is quite readable after translation, and of course the article itself describes the general activities that they were engaged in and accused of.
Of the activities that they were accused of, it does seem in line with prior environmental activist groups like Extinction Rebellion, Greenpeace, and Earth First!
As for what laws get enforced by a website, that is going to depend on jurisdiction. For example, the USA has section 230 of the DMCA, which holds that website operators are not responsible for user content with the exception of content accused of violating copyright within certain parameters. Doesn't mean they won't raid your servers, just means you won't be held legally responsible if they think you were sufficiently responsive to issues when raised.
At this time I don't know the specifics of what Germans have to think about to avoid state interference, but it does look like it is more severe than what the US has to do with.
So not a source for the claim.
So if that's not the case, that does mean Germany is not fascist? Or are they fascist and is their policy justified?
Lol
Palestinians, remember the following: you can resist your occupation but ONLY on the occupiers terms.
For the rest of us, remember the following: you can protest genocide, but ONLY on the genocider's terms.
That's enough for me to block my first instance! Fucking Nazis.
did the same and it's the first time i've used lemmy's blocklist; i hope there aren't more in the future
How do you do that?
German Guilt Pride is a hell of a drug. Hiding behind 'laws' to justify this is also very on brand.
https://youtu.be/Vy2ju_qPtuM
Thank you for this term.
So they're basically declaring themselves a fascist instance. I mean calling for end of Zionism is calling for an end of a fascist ideal, therefore that instance is declaring itself a fascist organization. Simple. Yeah no one should be Federated with this place.
Wow, real mask off moment, though they were using the "German law" pretext for a while now.
So basically just knockoff reddit then?
It says it in the name. Reddit but for and by the feds.
That and .world every time someone suggests that genocide is bad.
I doubt Lemmy has any major effect on public option at large. Reddit never did when they supported Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders, at the height of its user count/activity.
But I don't doubt that Lemmy enables echo chambers and filter bubbles that enable people to brush aside any criticism of their favorite politician or nation-state as The Good Guys.
Lemmy is the most ML oriented community I've been in... Well, it literally has been created by ML
Oh for sure, I don't doubt that.
But I don't think Lemmy has any impact beyond maybe one person somewhere changing their opinion on a company.
I understood the comment above to be comparing how public opinion is allowed to shape itself in the fediverse, vs being censored and molded to only fit particular permitted messages in mainstream social media. We can express ourselves without worrying that we'll get locked out of the entire fediverse for stating an opinion that mods or admins don't like. Which makes it fair to wonder how much suppression is going on elsewhere, that we don't see and never hear reports on, because censorship.
I'm not sure where the idea of Lemmy having an effect on public opinion at large came from. It feels like a non-sequitur, but maybe I'm just too tired and I missed something.
I don’t think you get banned for upvoting Luigi here yet
Yet.
The write-up they link is also insightful. Notably, they "explicitly reject these accusations" of being Zionists and insist it's a legal precaution required by their countries.
I've bought servers for hosting some small communities and I sometimes thought maybe I was paranoid for retaining anonymity and carefully picking the country and company to allow muh freedoms as far as speech goes, but it's interesting seeing .world and feddit pull out the "just following legislation" card (which is understandable, given that staff imprisonment is obviously bad for their community, but also irresponsible and complicit to simply accept the situation instead of resolving it, and because this is an internet community there are safe ways to resolve it).
How much ranting do you think they will be able to do from inside a jail cell?
It is however illegal for them to allow such material to remain on their servers once they’re made aware of it.
Their server isn't located within Germany, from what I'm reading.
From what I understand, the situation they are worried about is a german authority gaining access to their personal devices or somehow de-anonymizing their accounts and associating them with their actual identity while living in/traveling through germany, and seeing the type of content they are posting/allowing to be posted on a community they moderate.
The actual risk of exposure to them is incredibly small.
No it isn't, the server isn't hosted in Germany
This is false. The German police will contact the Austrian one, who will share the contact details of the persons legally responsible for publication, and if those happen to be residents of Germany, the Austrian laws are irrelevant to what the German police does.
Is there any example of that happening?
The members have a choice to leave if they don’t like the rules.
Feddit.org was not started as an law-skirting activist space with specific op-sec requirements.
My impression when talking with the admins is that they are quite sympethatic to such efforts, but simply ask that to be done somewhere else where it is safer for everyone involved.
Tbh, I can understand it. There have been police raids kicking in doors of families with small children at 5 in the morning for having a Facebook post saying "from the ... to the ..." (I am also in Germany...). The police went through all of the families belongings and took all web-connected electronics.
The situation is really rough here in Germany.
well, fuck feddit.org then. Any place thats too busy fellating genocide deserves to be abandoned and blocked. If they think they matter, they are wrong.
Unsurprising, still disappointing.
Ex-nazis choosing to support neo-nazis. Maybe they lost the ex, is Germany OK?
Is it any shock when actual members of the Nazi party and SS were kept around to help rebuild West Germany?
We should have just dealt with the problem instantly. Hindsight is 20/20 but fascists deserve no breaks.
Why are only Germans ex-nazi and Italians not ex-fascist? Y'all seem to enjoy your pizza
It's almost as if this thread isn't about Italy, Italians, or Italian law 🤔 super weird of me to focus on the topic presented, I know
Yeah you can call it what aboutism but you lie if it aint so
out of all my years on the internet this is such a dumb take lmao
Germany is supplying 30% of the weapons used in the Gaza genocide.
Italy also supplied, so where do you draw the line between not-fascist/fascist?
A negligeable amount. But I have no objections to calling the Meloni regime Fascists.
Bella Ciao.
No but you have to be a hypocrite or else I can't be comfortable supporting nazis
I didn't realise thinking Italy is fascist is mutually exclusive with enjoying pizza. I guess that means I'm not allowed to eat sauerkraut anymore?
just rename it to be freedom-kraut and you're fine.
I always check if my pizza is fascist before eating
Mine was made in America so I guess I've ticked that box. like who can afford to air ship a pizza from Vietnam or whatever
So they’re joining the Nazis. They can fuck off and die.
Sometimes joining the bad side is the only way not to die. I wish you strength to do the right thing (and a family in a far away safe place) when you're in such situation.
I promise you, the feddit mods are not going to die if they don't ban criticism of Israel. Seriously, have some perspective.
I was reacting to an extreme comment, as you can see above.
It was extreme, but I don't think it changes the fact that the feddit mods aren't really facing serious consequences for not doing this.
I used a hyperbole to fight a hyperbole.
What's interesting is that I got blatantly being called a nazi by those particular mods. I reported to admins and nothing happened.
So obviously there's a double filter here about "not tolerating accusations of nazism".
I just left, blocked ![email protected] and became very wary of feddit.org administration. So this doesn't take me as much as a surprise as I have already seen issues with both that community and an admin team that's clearly not objective when talking about that community admins.
When you're so anti-Nazi that you loop around and become pro Reverse-Nazi.
What lack of theory does to a mfer.
Western Germany never de-Nazified, the Nazis teamed up with the Zionists even when the Nazis were in power. They left the Nazis as they were effective anti-Communists, and the West collectively felt that was a worthwhile trade. Germany pays lip service to combatting fighting the Nazis, but keeps the underlying fascism the West in general has.
Germans and being complicit because they are "just following laws/orders". Name a better duo.
Wtf is this, this is like capitulatiing to nazis back in the day, shame on them
What capitulation lmao. Can't capitulate to yourself.
Genuine freak shit. Maybe wait until the government bothers you, don't preempt them
Says the person not at risk of early moring police raids of their home including months long confiscation of all their communication devices and costly legal proceedings to get them back.
I'm a communist trans woman with guns who helps house people for free in the USA. I've had ICE and police show up to my doorstep before. For some reason, I doubt a bunch of cishet white nerd guys in Germany are about to have as many problems as I do for hosting anti israel content on a small social site.
Incredible work, comrade. 🫡
You are an amazing person, but I find it funny how in the US even the communists have guns.
Communists have always been pro-gun, you can't have a revolution without them. Things get more nuanced within Socialism, once the revolution has broadly succeeded, but an armed working class in Capitalism is harder to oppress.
Great, more power to you, but you do realize that this is still quite a different situation? What you are doing is not illegal (for now at least) and you have some control over the risks you personally take.
Hosting a space for others but still being legally responsible for what they do in that space has different requirements. You would probably also ask people you host to not set up a meth lab in your place.
What I'm doing is illegal in my jurisdiction, ICE showed up for a reason. The law can eat my ass no one should be homeless
Fine, I don't know your situation, but there is still the difference that you chose to take that personal risk intentionally, while the feddit.org admins did not.
Unforced error really, there's a lot of secure hosting providers that take anonymous payments. Could easily say you transferred domain control to someone else to avoid liability when the law passed. They're doing this because they have no convictions and are lazy at best, at worst they support Israel.
Not really.
You can't become anonymous and retain site ownership. The site would've needed to be shut down and a new, somehow completely unrelated site would have to be started.
Besides, even if that were done you bet your ass a random German lawyer would immediately sue the new site for violating Impressumspflicht. That's one quick way to get the police investigating your site. Your OPSEC better be close to "hosting an illegal streaming site" level.
Even German forums about piracy would rather have an impress and remove illegal content than remain anonymous and evade police - see tarnkappe.info.
~ Average german defense for their complicity in the 1940s.
You would have turned in Anne Frank.
Right, people arguing to not expose others to the risk of police raids are "asckually Nazis". You realize how absurd that is? Anne Frank was found during a police raid...
Are you fr? Are the feddit admins (appropriate as fuck name) hosting Palestinian refugees in their server locations, now?
Eur*s and their guilt tripping for shit they caused in the first place I stg
"Look it's the law, disobeying the law is bad, I must obey the law and report my local
Jewspro-Palestine thought crime."The irony of all the armchair warriors here is too thick 🤦 Go get yourself squatted and possibly arrested, that will for sure help the Palestinians that are facing a genocide /s
Better than supporting laws that censor support for people. Some solarpunk you are.
A Solarpunk with better opsec, yes. Maybe you should learn a bit about that yourself.
Apparently not.
I am not one of the admins effected by this, but I know better than to expose others to such risks over stupid arguments on a public internet forum.
But apparently that is too much to expect here 🙄
The OPSEC of "censor discussion"? That's not the OPSEC or solarpunk I'm familar with.
You need to look up the definition of censorship, because you are apparently ignorant or brainwashed by some freeze peach people on the topic.
Asking people not to post stuff on a public forum that could endanger themselves and the operators of the forum is good opsec practise, as is removing such posts that are made regardless of that.
I have a hard time believing you care about opsec if you think rotating across accounts is a bannable offense.
That wasn't me, but in specific cases where multiple accounts are used for ban evasion or similar stuff that can be justified from a moderation perspective.
And if you do such a bad job that it is easy to guess your sockpuppet accounts then that is really a failure in opsec on your side 😅
I'm a devops engineer and host quite a few things. Running a point to point VPN is fucking simple for anyone capable of running Lemmy.
Your argument is transparently stupid to anyone with even an ounce of technical capabilities.
Ok great, than explain it to us, because apparently you have no idea about the actual situation Mr. "DevOps Engineer"... (a joke of a job title for actual security professionals). /s
You're as competent a security professional as your beloved Rhodesian military was at fighting.
I also literally did tell you how in the comment above. Setup a point to point VPN and set the remote endpoint address in DNS for the URL. Make sure the remote endpoint is not in German jurisdiction.
Someone that was actually competent (not you) would know how to do that.
Oh shit, the (White) Power Rankings heating up as feddit takes up an unexpected lead against stormfront.world
Oof, cringe.
Death to Germany
The country or the inhabitants?
Germany is a country. Germans are its inhabitants.
Yea, so which
Death to Germany
So where do the Germans go?
They can be resettled in Libya with the Gazans.
Where do the Israelis go?
Why would they have to "go" anywhere?
What would you do with them if you don't relocate?
They dont "go" anywhere. The people in that physical location form a new, better government thats not bought out by foreign interests.
any other obvious stuff I can give you the minute details on? Do you need a diagram of how to use the toilet? Lend me some of your crayons and I'll diagram it out for you. Thats why we are all here, to give you painfully obvious answers to boneheaded questions.
Such a pain you can't block an entite instance (at least not that I've found on Sync) and have to block the individual communities one by one. I blocked the ones with over 500 subscribers and i suppose the others will get blocked as they show up in my Everything feed.
There's no way i want to be a part of German genocide whitewashing.
Sounds like you need to use a different app then. Cuz I'm pretty sure you can block instances on most other ones. I use connect and I blocked a number of instances.
you should be able to do that from the web interface, and it will apply to any apps because your server does the filtering.
fyi, some are already blocking lemmy.ml too. I'm not yet sure if I want to go that far, but I'm getting tired of their china apologism. and this community is also on ml, soo..
China apologism 😂 fucking hell I swear most of y'all would slot right in during jim crow or the yellow peril. If white society says you're an animal it's up to PoC to prove we're not (and if we do it's apologia)
And another instance gets blocked
How do I ban an entire instance
Assuming you're using the default Lemmy UI, there's a block settings menu in your account settings page. It's worth exploring, there's some good options to play around with.
Thank you. 🙂
Fucking Germany
It's wild how lies and propaganda spread in real time.
I am curious about the reactions in the thread linked in the OP, but I can't access it. I don't know if the thread is deleted either since I can't access even the server.
Are they temporarily down?
EDIT:
False alarm. I was able to access it after some struggle. I don't know why I can't access it in my desktop but I was able to access it via mobile. At any rate, it's a problem on my end.
Reading the linked post, I'm glad to note that it seems to me that the consensus is largely against the change. Even the few comments from those in the instance is pretty much against it.
Germany has a very binary view on class supremacism. It's not supremacism is good vs bad. It's a pendulum of who is above criticism. Russophobic nazi supremacism still kosher though.
I've noticed that pro-Israel Germans are usually not that much against Russia.
Not from what I've seen at all. The people who insist on calling Palestinians (and any Arab people who oppose Zionism) "terrorists" are often the same people frothing at the mouth about how we have to smash the Russian "orcs." Granted, this isn't limited only to Germans, but I've definitely seen it specifically from them as well.
Worse is better. You need to have all sorts of delusions existent in the society, for the immunity to be preserved.
Honestly I've had different experience, too much Russia-sympathy from Germans. But maybe that just came out of fashion.
Yep if you have Russian blood in you you're guilty of all crimes of its government, even if you're against Putin.
It's so cool and not at all xenophobic.
I want you to take notice and how I said "Russia" not "Russians". The state aren't the individual people. But good job with following the hive mind. So proud of you.
The hivemind of "I don't think everyone in Russia is inherently guilty of all crimes by Putin?"
Alright let's just arrest everyone in Russia. They're all guilty. Especially the children and people in jail for protesting.
I'm sure a non-zero amount support it, but it's like thinking that everyone in America is guilty of the invasion of Iraq.
If there is a Israel citizen who is against the Genocide, I don't want them considered guilty. I think they should be doing as much as they can against it, and being neutral to it is complicity. But if they're against the genocide, they aren't guilty.
I'm also unsure of the rates of support for the War on Ukraine in Russia, but I doubt it's 100%. Even if it's 99%, that 1% can't be considered guilty as charged for.
I don't consider think that being a citizen of a nation instantly makes you guilty. But I also acknowledge that they can benefit from how their nation acts on the world stage.
My nation benefited from the Iraq invasion, but I was 6 years old when we did it. I didn't even know what war really was then.
Thank you one sane, non-kneejerk response. I appreciate you.
And for the late hivemind, I got a comment history full of not being a prick like the dude that responded to me.
Bro, again. You're acting like the person insulting me, assumed I was. Please grab some nuance. The individual citizens are not as a whole responsible for state actions. Despite it the majority of the populace is in favor, you cannot blame them as a whole.
But why do that when we can do collective punishment, which is done by Russia, Israel, North Korea, and all the famous Good Nations?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment
Trust a dronie to start whining about Russia and "tankies" in a thread about the genocide of Gaza.
Trust a "dronie" to protect their homeland!
Edit to add: your boos mean nothing. You can't support Russia and Palestine. You're obviously paid by someone, and/or misguided.
Edit to add: I'm not deleting shit but have a group coming at me. 😉
Edit #2: every negative number I get from you pricks is a positive in my book! Keep bringing it on you lonely pieces of shit!
"Protecting your homeland" by whining about Russia and “tankies” in a thread about the genocide of Gaza.
You're the one protecting an eastern equivalent to Israel.
Edit: love that I got under your skin asshole. Have fun with the cognitive dissonance you experience daily.
Edit 2: it feels validating every time you ass holes down doot me! Please keep it coming!
????????
least incoherent dronie.
So you're a fan of the incursion into Ukraine? Good to know where you stand.
I love that you're banned for your comments, let me carry that feeling forward by user blocking you. bu-bye now.
fuck the banderites
fuck the pissraelis
fuck fascists of whatever country
I wonder if "Jews and non-Jews can't live together, and thus Jews must be exiled to Israel" will be allowed...
Germany tried to create laws to prevent a repeat of the Holocaust. It's a laudable effort but they're failing at it.
The problem is that they were so specific about preventing "The Holocaust" that they ignored many other kinds of bigotry and racism. They thought that if they forbid a few key phrases and symbols, hatred would wither on the vine. Instead they just cleared the way for other aspects of racism to flourish.
They could have made a symmetrical ban.
I agree with this, in that I think it avoids the issue of appearing to side with one or the other — I think it's more neutral.
Wtf is feddit
I don't blame the mods as they have little say in the matter but it's sad to see never the less.
Defederate. Let them be murderous genocide apologists on their own.
Read the comments and see who's catching bans. It's one thing to be made to comply by force, it's another to be celebrating that you're now gonna be censoring anti Zionists
I can't see who is catching a ban for what comment, because the comments have been censored. Q.E.D.
...Much like I have been for pointing out how the law functions. So, that's cool, I guess.
FWIW, a number of states int he US have passed anti-BDS laws; it should be blatantly illegal under 1A to prevent institutions from boycotting Israel, and yet, so far, those laws haven't been seriously challenged.
If both CSAM and criticism of the state of Israel are illegal in Germany, then the admins and mods are legally obligated to remove both. Their feelings and beliefs are not relevant to their legal obligation.
I don't see how you are incapable of understanding this.
???
They both obligate moderators and administrators to remove illegal content, and failure to do so can result in criminal penalties for the people running the site.
Are you intentionally pretending that you don't understand that both types of content--regardless of any morality--can land the admins in jail?
So you are intentionally being obtuse.
Got it.
A post about white people doing white people things and banning anyone not in full support of genocide, and even the criticism has to be half about China this and China that.
Y'all are exactly the type of idiot who sets up the conditions for these ghouls to do another genocide to then go on your merry way to act like the monsters are they before you spread blood libel against somebody else.
Fuck y'all. Read the fucking room and examine yourself for once.
Sorry? I guess?
Better than what the headline seems though.
The description reads almost like malicious compliance.
Still. There are people advocating for similar measures against statements not as normal as the listed.
I hope these people can see how their wishes being fulfilled might lead to similar regrettable results. It's better not to walk the preceding steps.
One set of basics a decent human being should always remember - "I am not wise, I am not righteous, and I don't know what is right and what is wrong, I can only try not to multiply evil and to avoid lying to myself and others, and when I make a decision, I know it'll harm people".
Banning calls for dissolution of a genocidal Apartheid is not "malicious compliance".
They are even banning calls to end Zionism which is comparable to banning calls to end Nazism.
Of course this comparison could not be made on Feddit.org because they ban comparisons of Zionism to Nazis.
The comments section is a circle jerk full of chuds going "it's about time somevody stood up for poor Israel, only here and world isn't Hamas"
I'd call it a psyop but Eur*peans have proven to be this ghoulish across their entire history so
Germans are quickly rearming, BTW.
And if we look at the numbers, their planned military budget is going to be the size of Russia's. The efficiency of its use, despite all the jokes about German military bureaucracy, is going to be better too.
So I'd say it's a huge question who's being cornered, them or everybody around. Considering the size of Germany's economy, its dependent economies and allied states. Considering that France, Poland, obviously Ukraine are interested in participating, so there's bigger total scale of the system achievable.
Even for the old-fashioned kind of militarism they have sufficient population.
And about Putin - one of that regime's worst unseen qualities is that not only it's sadistic and barbaric and generally evil, it's also incompetent. Well, competent in killing people, preserving power and all kinds of sadism, incompetent in strategy. In 5 years when Germany rearms well enough, they might, to optimize expenses, do something huge for old times' sake after solving the immediate problem, and for this kind of aggression Putin's Russia will not be ready, not even on the level of 1941.
But also Putin&co have that common for Soviet nomenclature fetish for the German empire. And they are psychopaths. They might be bringing this about because they want this to happen. They will all be in European countries, after all, living just fine, and nobody will put them in jail or take away their stolen riches.
Liberals get their politics from marvel movies
Nah, just half, the other is from Harry Potter
True
You wouldn't believe me.
It'll take a lot more than 5 to train and equip an effective force.
It's not from ground zero.
And it can be effective. It won't be experienced and will have to live through a lot of massacres and shame, similarly to what Russia did in 2022 or many other forces which hadn't been properly tested for long. But it will be effective most likely.
But yes, 5 years to blitzing Russia again is something born by my short memory while typing.
I was banned today from !Europe on feddit, a community I've never posted in, because apparently reporting a disinformation spam account posting uyghur genocide fake news rubs the mods the wrong way. I had no idea that instance was this much of a dumpster fire. Am I officially a communist now? Seems like a rite of passage has occurred
1984
Oh man. Come on Lemmy.
Maybe read the post again and put yourself in the shoes of the admins and mods who do live in Germany.
Each of you personally has your own views on the Israel / Palestine genocide, and that's absolutely fine.
However, very few of you risk personal criminal prosecution in support of Palestine. The people involved in hosting a lemmy instance are volunteers, who probably didn't sign up for that kind of risk.
Also, the very nature of federation means that feddit can restrict this content on their servers confident in the knowledge that other servers can host this content in a jurisdiction that doesn't have the same risks.
What's next? Put yourself in the shoes of the soldiers who're "just following orders" by firing upon unarmed people ?
Also, the genocide is immoral, inhumane, and needs to stop. I don't know any other personal view that can be "absolutely fine"
slippery slope fallacy
Are you saying that because you genuinely believe your statement isn't an instance of the slippery slope fallacy, or because you want to insult me?
Well, I guess you could put yourself in the shoes of soldiers if that floats your boat but it's obviously not analogous to lemmy admins.
As I said, foregoing the personal risk doesn't harm Palestinians in any way. You're free to bemoan genocide on pretty much any other instance.
Man sucks to be them. Oh well, better preemptively censor all words because its illegal! Don't stand for what's right!
Why are you on an anarchist instance if you are for states limiting speech?
So uh, letting people like lemmy admins do what they want with their own instance is a fairly foundational concept of anarchism.
Complying and capitulating in advance with authoritarian laws to aid in covering up discussions of genocide isn't, however.
So maybe the admins of feddit are not anarchists?
Probably not, you are on the anarchist instance, supporting obeying authoritarian laws. They aren't.
Lol.
If I was one of the admins who lived in Germany, I would just step down; not capitulating to genocidal fascists is more important than getting to run my own little digital fiefdom.
My country is literally arbitrarily detaining and deporting/imprisoning people for advocating for a free Palestine. I still go to protests.
Free Palestine, from the river to the sea!
I am not reading that. Can we get some more non political instances and communities?
Y'all grabbed your pitchforks before you even got to that part, didn't you?
You can criticize Zionism as an ideology, but you can't call for its end.
You can refer to the current Israeli government as "criminal," but you can't call for the dissolution of the state of Israel as it currently exists.
You see the problem, surely?
Ummm... Take it up with Germany?
Germany doesn't have jurisdiction on servers hosted in Austria. This "German law" defense doesn't make the remotest amount of sense.
Germany is doing plenty of extra-judicial repression of pro-Palestine activism. Jurisdiction doesn't matter.
These laws are AFAIK in Austria similar to those in Germany, and Austrian police will share the contact details of those responsible for publication who happen to be people living in Germany. The server location alone is not the only criteria.
You can't call for the end of israel, a state started by ethnically cleansing the Palestinians and stealing their land. You don't realize why thats a problem?
Take it up with Germany, the country in which they live.
What, you're scared of getting harrassed by your government for wrongthink on your hobby project? You sir are the actual fascist! We'll defederate! Can't let any of those instance users access ours. 🤡
Hamas is the reaction to a century of genocidal settler colonialism. Read The Wretched of the Earth.
I mean, you can, if you're a piece of shit.
If Zionists don't want terror maybe they should stop stealing shit and torturing children.
Hamas is a symptom of an oppressive nazi genocidal regime