Three men who identified themselves as Homeland Security officers raided a courthouse in downtown Charlottesville Tuesday, detaining two men without explanation
https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/crime-courts/article_9ce921d6-5f61-4546-b0c9-ea2287d8bf16.htmlOpen linkView original on lemmy.world788
Comments137
Sounds an awful lot like kidnapping. So then the question becomes: why didn’t the court officers or local police arrest the so-called “ICE agents”? Up to and including firing on the assailants, if necessary? Because if you don’t show your badge, and you can’t back it up, you are not who you say you are. And that becomes broad-ass daylight kidnapping. And the actual uniformed officers did nothing (I know why they did nothing - the call is coming from inside the house).
Because the people who work at the court were likely complicit.
Of course they wouldn't tell the Public Defender, but that doesn't mean that he bailiff or whatever, wasn't in on it.
Sounds like a courthouse that is absolutely corrupt of the constitution and should be all held to treason. The U.S. brought back the firing squad, and the president preaches for no trials. If anyone knows me I love this country. That said, I'm fairly sure this country says we are required to shoot the judge by firing squad without a trial? Or maybe they havent been clear. Is it just racism based slaughter, or slaughter all around they support?
You mean that some of those that burn crosses are the same that work forces? 🤯
Well maybe we can use this and go get Lugi. Just claim to be ICE and maybe the courts let us get him, thinking we going deport him to El Salvador.
Hey, if it’s stupid but it works, it’s not that stupid.
did people not remember trump had the same nameless goons in his first admin when kindapping people.
Sure, but this is frankly another level. Snatching protesters off the street is fucked, for sure. Snatching people out of a courthouse, while they’re engaged with the legal system, out from under the noses of judges, attorneys, and court officers is absolutely another fucking level.
Let’s assume for a moment that the abducters here were federal agents.
How long before people get the bright idea that they can pull a stunt like this without being federal agents? Has that already happened?
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/04/us/ice-impersonators-on-the-rise-arrests-made-as-authorities-issue-national-warning/index.html
I suppose the scenario I was really thinking of is one where someone is literally abducted by adults, and not just fucking idiot kids playing fuck around.
Which has happened in the article posted here, we're just taking them on their word that they're actually federal agents.
Yeah, this was the part that really got me:
That's a real bully-logic move right there. How are we supposed to know that these are your lawful duties if you're refusing to show us your warrant or even your badge? Like, if she had blocked them at this point and the issue were brought to court (and yes, it's ironic that this is happening in a court), then I can't imagine a jury saying "well yeah, you can't prevent a guy from abducting someone just because he won't give you any indication other than a pinky swear that he has the legal authority to do it." But, of course, the obvious implication in the moment was that since he was from the "abduct people in an unmarked van with unlimited authority" branch of the government, this wasn't going to a jury trial, and she was either getting out of the way or she was going in the van too.
I dunno, man. It's scary.
So what I'm gathering here, is if you can get some friends together, you can get yourself out of court in a pinch.
This is not behavior they want to encourage long term
Trump isn't thinking in the long term. He's usually not even thinking in the short term.
He barely developed object permanence, through many flash cards with pictures of burgers on them.
"if we stop testing there won't be so many positive tests."
Yeah, I started to write about that, but it's unclear that this guy would have actually gained anything by getting out of the courtroom. A lot of folks are released pending trial, in which case there's really no advantage to getting your friends to grab you out of court, rather than just, y'know, skipping town. If he was already in police custody, I imagine there actually would have been more checking of the authority.
But yeah, making court a place where your enemies know you'll be there and they're free to come and grab you is a terrible precedent anyway. If you can't expect due process even in the courts, what does the rule of law even mean anymore?
Florida Woman Posed as ICE Agent to Detain Ex-Boyfriend's Wife: Police https://www.newsweek.com/florida-woman-latrance-battle-ice-agent-detain-ex-boyfriend-wife-2062962
Yeah, that tracks.
That's a scary read - if the assailant had cleaned up better and not stopped at an apartment complex, she could have gotten away with murder.
Pretty sure some people showed up at San Francisco City Hall claiming to be with DOGE and demanding they be given access to personal files.
The staff refused and when they finally called the police the men claiming to be with DOGE fled the scene.
It was just some insane MAGA duds pretending to be with DOGE.
Especially with ICE going into schools and other previous safe zones now, think about how easy it would be for people to take advantage of these situations.
If a person is already willing to kidnap someone, do you really think they wouldn't easily be willing to disguise their own identity, command authority and prey on people's fears of retaliation for not complying?
(Warning: Instagram link) Here's a video of an instance of this
Maybe shoot kidnappers? Amazing how often your guns are used to kill school children and how rarely to fight injustice.
Normal people cannot legally carry firearms into a Court House.
Is there no law enforcements with weapons in your courts? And also what about the kidnappers on the streets? Have any gotten shot so far?
Iknow people simply do not want to risk their life and thats fair but i wonder about the use scenario for all these weapons you guys own and i do not understand why besides having a fetish for weapons.
Point of correction here. A sentence to the El Salvador Concentration Camps IS a death sentence. The fact that there's currently no tangible proof that prisoner executions are happening is about the same as see a giant plume of thick black smoke rising off the city tire dump and saying that there's currently no tangible evidence that the fucker's burning.
Almost 100% guaranteed that if anyone eventually manages to investigate it properly there will be a whole bunch of mass graves.
Totally understand.
Yeah, it would take almost literally the whole rest of the world to stand up to the US. The military superiority difference between the US and everyone else is.... problematic. The US was always a bit of a bully as an ally, and part of the disparity is the fault of the rest of us, allowing the US to take the bulk of defence burden, and mil-tech development. It's turned allies into perceived client States in the view of people like Trump.
So yeah, if the only way to get Trump pulled up on this fascist shit is to have a global united front, and threaten WW3? We had better hope that there's enough people in the US military chain of command who recognise, and honour, that the oath they swore is to the constitution, and to protect it from threats foreign and domestic....and not an oath to Trump with the promise of Jackbooting the necks of the rest of the world. Otherwise, as the quote that's often attributed to Einstein goes:
American cops don't protect American people. First and foremost, they protect their own. Beyond that, they protect the establishment that gives them their authority.
And money. They absolutely protect people with money.
I like to shoot far off cans, bottles, and targets out in the country. I've never shot an animal (that I know of) or a person (pretty confident about that one) and if there was some rabble-rousing going on and I was for some reason armed and loaded I don't have the mental capacity nor the confidence to decide who lives and dies. Just because I own guns doesn't mean I'm your defender. You should go buy a gun and become the justice decider you describe. Become the change you want to see.
What is happening is abhorrent. Morons with guns aren't the answer.
Not possible in my country. I just sometimes have the feeling that americans accept more shit from their government and law enforcement BECAUSE they have loads of weapons and it gives this wrong sense of security, that you are able to rise up against authority if push comes to shove. Only that it will never be quite bad enough to risk your own life. And i understand that. Still sad to see.
The Venn diagram of gun fetishists and the people still cheering for Trump is nearly a circle.
The problem is that most of the weapon fetishists are on the side of the fascists.
The fetishists yes, but to anyone thinking otherwise mostly all the leftists I know are strapped. It's just an issue of organization.
Were you rubbing your nipples when you wrote this? You sound like a MAGAt fantasizing about trans Mexicans.
Even if they could, anyone thinking they're going to be able to shoot their way out of being abducted by the gestapo will have a very rude awakening.
Still better to be killed in the street than renditioned to America's concentration camp in El Salvador
If that's your goal, yes, a gun would be effective.
Is your goal something other than doing better than being renditioned to America’s concentration camp in El Salvador?
When people say "second amendment!" about this stuff they're usually talking about overthrowing tyranny somehow, not suicide by ICE.
¿Por Qué No Los Dos?
A comment almost exactly like this got me permabanned from reddit. It's like they're telling us who's side they're on.
I mean.... they've been pretty clear about it for several years now?
You cannot hypothesize about shooting a person attacking your child but you can have several subs dedicated to cheering for the death of conscripted Russian soldiers. The cool part is that it was a 3 day ban and when I appealed it, the ban became permanent.
That's completely, unsurprisingly, typical.
I'm on my usual 2 day ban over some comment I can't remember, but probably something about how the current admin is a cancerous growth, and should be treated accordingly.
Shit posting is fun.
Years ago I was site-wide banned for "multiple false reporting" or something for reporting comments that advocated blanket murdering protesters and black people related to BLM protests. These comments are probably still there while antifascist users and subs are banned regularly.
Wow you really can’t tell the difference between officials and gangs of criminals these days.
Indeed, kidnapping is one of the things that drug cartels are known for. Now we have people claiming to be federal officers doing kidnapping? There needs to be a LOT of pushback over this, it's crazy and ridiculous.
Federal agents have been in league with cartels before.
https://jacobin.com/2023/03/us-mexico-war-on-drugs-garcia-luna-calderon
By design. It reminds me of another article posted on Lemmy recently, that "tough on crime" jurisdictions are making it less safe to live in those jurisdictions.
They're the same picture.
The police have always just been the biggest gang
You misspelled shot.
They don't need to be mutually exclusive
Gotta know where they are before that
I think this is one of those pearl clutching instances that won't take kindly to that kind of language. You need to use the legal system to oppose the corrupt legal system, I guess.
Maybe, but writing mean articles about them isn't going to stop them, and they have the support of the trump administration. The only thing that's going to stop them is if they're afraid they might not go home afterwards.
Obviously the next step for them will be gearing up like they're going into combat, but that really starts making people pay attention to what's going on
Oh, I fully support shooting nazis and their collaborators dead. I was taking a shot (pun intended) at the moderators who remove comments like "the guys running today's concentration camps should be shot"
Then I guess these gestapo need to be legally shot, after a legal trial and sentencing to death.
(Stupid fucking mods.)
Having watched the video, that guy provided no evidence that this was anything other than a kidnapping. Shooting him in the face would be 100% self defense
Presumably, the courthouse is filled with cops and others with arrest authority, so why did they allow two men in plainclothes without badges or warrants leave with two people?
If the DOGE pirates had been gunned down in the first lobby the invaded, it would have ended there, or at least gone down a different path.
We should not be normalizing this behavior, and setting precedents. Without a badge, you will not be listened to, and you will leave the building immediately. Without a warrant, you will not be putting your hands on any person. If you attempt to bypass either requirement, you will be arrested. And if you attempt to do enforce your demands by force, you will be shot.
On the plus side, if anybody reading this ever has reason to think that they might need to go into a police station and remove someone being held there, apparently if you and a friend or two look sufficiently the part, you can just walk in, in plainclothes, and claim to be Homeland Security, and just... take a dude and leave.
I wish they did have the guts to shoot the DOGE team. Especially since the DOGE goons have literally dragged people out and probably physically assaulted others.
When they are disappearing people with no due process, the only logical response is violence. Gtfo of here with that dumb shit.
Edit: lol coward deleted his whole account, it would seem. Makes dumb statements, then scurries into the shadows once he realizes how stupid he is.
I think I'm going to have to seriously think about packing heat on regular basis for the exact scenario the 2nd amendment was written to cover.
Not a bad idea, at this point. Just keep it at home, and only have it to defend yourself or others. It is always morally correct to stop a Gestapo agent through any means necessary.
Ladies and gents. Someone with no critical thinking skills. Dumbass.
It has nothing to do with "chosen" and everything to do with common sense. Wtf would YOU do if a couple of dudes came up to you neighbor, grabbed them and walked off with no explanation or identification? Just shrug, and go about your day? Because that's what you're insinuating with this idiotic line of reasoning you're going down.
I've been seeing "Americans are pussies for not rising up" and "you won't vote yourselves out of this situation" on here for months… Which is it? Make up your fucking mind, internet.
It's just the normal anti-American sentiment from fringe idiots around the globe. Anything that has to do with America or the people from there are bad, evil, and needs to be shunned and mocked. Don't give this guy any weight as a popular opinion from the internet.
If you didn't notice, I'm of the same opinion on this point! Learn to read, please.
I mean, isn't this the exact scenario they wrote in the Second Amendment for? Can't say this reaction is surprising given it's at the roots of the country and extensively defended by the Founding Fathers
Yeah, to some things they are
No, they haven’t helped either.
If you actually read the second amendment, its whole purpose is to keep the government in check.
Yeah, funny how the boot lickers forget their whole wet dream of being the ones that rise up, means they need to rebel against the tyrant Trump and his dumbshit sycophants.
That's what we are fighting against, idiot.
When you're acting like an uneducated troglodyte, you will be treated as such. That's not a uniquely American trait, but you're welcome to continue wasting air trying to make that statement.
Imagine trusting the government this much
Whatever happened to the Fourth Amendment? If they're not even bothering to uphold the Constitution in a courthouse you guys are well and truly fucked.
I’m pretty sure Homeland Security was created with the sole intent of subverting the constitution from it's inception.
https://www.aclu.org/documents/constitution-100-mile-border-zone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception
The magical 100 mile "Nah constitution don't really work here" zone that also, crazily enough, includes 2/3 of the population.
The constitution has not existed since 911. I am not sure why people still believe in it. Even Santa Claus is more plausible to exist.
Yeah, I don't think it's very likely that a mythical jolly man brings presents to kids worldwide
Brilliant rebuttal
Is this exactly the kind of stuff 2A was supposed to have solved? What were the half a billion guns for?
A good portion of the 2A fetishists in this country love jackbooted authoritarianism as long as it's aimed at the correct demographic.
They love the fantasy of being a plucky revolutionary, but in reality they are the ones helping the boot come down.
but we can change that any time. change the demographic by arming yourself and not being one of those people.
Way ahead of you there.
its called ammosexuals,people who fetishized and fantasize about a scenario where they shoot people, any excuse will do. i seen a video of a poc right winger, "climaxing" over the thought of shooting someone in an unlikely scenario. it was the cringiest thing.
Guns are for the tyranny of green energy and gay marriage. This is what they voted for.
Guns are for Drag Queen Story Hour and school schoolings
Important Note: For perpetuating school shootings, not stopping them. Absolutely not for stopping them. Unless we're talking about the shooter taking themselves out when they're done.
It's horrifying to see so many incidents of kidnapping in courtrooms. I can't imagine a more blatant and clear example of subversion of the legal judicial process.
There would be no reason to remove them from a courtroom if you believed the court would come to the same conclusions they have. So the logical explanation is that they know that what they're doing is illegal and that these people they're snatching haven't actually done anything wrong. It's shameful that we've allowed this to happen in our country and frankly, it's embarrassing that this is what the once great USA has stooped to.
The authorities are assholes. They go for schools and churches and hospitals and courtrooms. They won't bother with rape cases unless they're an easy slam dunk. They hold grudges and weaponize their power over people they don't like. They won't target gang members when uneducated immigrants are so much easier.
And yet suggesting that someone fight back makes you the bad guy.
https://lemmy.ca/comment/16126715
The actual fucking motto of the US is not "land of the free, home of the brave.” That's a song lyric. But keep confidently spouting your feelings as facts , it really helps you make your point.
The knock-on effect of this now would discourage undocumented migrants even just trying to engage with the legal system, being a witness or even reporting on crimes. For people on the fringes of a society it could lead to even worse exploitation and marginalization
Working as intended
While we aren't seeing it now, it will be a matter of time before those marginalized people start packing and start shooting. Especially when they realize it is a fate worse than death or even just death if they comply.
Definitely not the sort of thing a fascist would do. Lefty liberals are Larping
Ludicrous.
First, this is straight up Nazi secret police stuff. Second how did the court know these guys weren't confederates of the folks in court intending a jail break. Where the FUCK were the bailiffs in this unlawful seizure?
Probably people should just start doing just that since apparently it's that easy, your friend accused of random offences? No problem just walk in and grab them.
So three men just kidnapped a dude.
They need to be banned from doing this in plain clothes. At minumim. At best ICE needs to be abolished.
They need to be arrested as attempted kidnappers or shot if they don't surrender. Then they need to be prosecuted as kidnappers.
Just figure out their names and living places. Once the shit is over, hunt them. All of them. And do whatever you like with them.
At best ICE and DHS officials should be tried in a Nuremberg style court.
Questioning the security of the courthouse if you can just do that
I live here, and I actually called the Sheriff and yelled at her about this. She said these ICE Nazis showed her deputies ID and warrants, and that she couldn't stop them from entering. She has met with the judges who actually have the power to determine who is allowed entry, asking if they want her office to stop feds in the future. They were still considering it as of yesterday.
Babe wake up, new gender just dropped
It's probably the gesta- I mean ICE
gICEstapo?
I'm still baffled as to how they continue to do this unimpeded.
These people are in court trying to enter the country "the right way" by going through the legal system and are getting ambushed by ICE and Homeland Security during their hearings. Unless the desired outcome is to depress the population of "good ones" trying to stay in the country via legal means by scaring them with the threat of sudden deportation, I don't see what this accomplishes. This war on immigration is equally as stupid and futile as the war on drugs.
Xenophobia has completely fried the brains of most Americans. This shit isn't normal and never should be.
They will be coming to your courthouses too. We will have to be organizing citizen barricades to keep them from disappearing our neighbors.
So if I say I'm with HS, can I do whatever I like?
Just make sure you have a chud mask on and you're golden apparently.
Fuck a bunch of cunts
Tankies be like: "based comrade ICE agents just like China!"
You were okay with the program deporting people without trial because they "are criminals"? Are you even listening to yourself?
No I assumed that they would take the legal route of getting rid of illegal immigrants that are criminals I didn’t expect it to be like this. But I still am on board with them getting rid of illegal immigrants that are criminals, They just need to go about it a better way
That thing you wanted was already happening under Biden, and before him. How do I know? They didn't hire new people. They just gave the signal to the existing hires that they can do what they want. They were able to deport criminals before, and they did. Trump just lied when he said they didn't. During the campaign he duped millions of people into believing a fake problem to which he is now providing a fake solution: no additional criminals are being deported, not really — they're just doing things more sloppily, being more cruel about it, and padding the numbers with innocent people.
Ok, sending people to an El Salvador concentration camp instead of their home country, that's certainly new.
At this point I'm hoping they'll at some point make the mistake of sending some Chinese citizens to El Salvador. Hopefully someone with CCP ties. Now I'm not saying I wish this upon anyone, I'm saying they're sending people anyway, I just hope they'll eventually make the mistake of doing it to someone whose government can actually fight back. China could absolutely destroy the US if they wanted to at this point.
They've been on Lemmy for 20 days. This Reddit slop is already becoming exhausting
I made an account at the start of the year before changing to make one not associated with my at all. The redditification of Lemmy had become so much worse even just since I got here.
In B-school this is called "adverse selection."
That's what I mean about the duping. None of that was happening under Biden. These "open borders" allegations are and have always been nonsense.
Do people try to cross illegally? Yes. How do we know? Because they're caught while trying to do it and sent back — this one fact should put the "open borders" claims to rest, but that's if we lived in a sane world. And don't get me started on all the citizen militias patrolling the border and shooting people for sport, because a lot of the border is in red states where leadership turns a blind eye to these types of vigilantes.
Most undocumented immigrants in the US arrive normally on a visa by plane and then overstay their visa. And while some do that on purpose, a lot of the time the expiration happens accidentally due to things out of their control, like because paperwork takes too long and it's tied to their employer who isn't moving their ass fast enough, etc. Some are in the process of correcting their undocumented status or even taking their citizenship test when ICE detains them.
The argument here is something you alluded to in the first comment I replied to: an undocumented immigrant merely existing in the US poses no risk to anyone, so maybe deportation isn't really a measured response to coming across a person with undocumented status, let alone calling them "illegals" and doing all this verbal shell game between "illegal", "criminal", "terrorist", deliberately confusing "insane asylum" with "asylum seekers" etc.
All that rhetoric is meant do dehumanize and paint large groups of people with the same brush: dangerous, disgusting, inhuman. Then the "open borders" lie implies incompetence and naivete on the part of the previous administration (or even sadism if they did it knowingly). This is how we ended up here, and now they're doing what they wanted to do in the first place: treat them all the same and continue using the verbal shell game when asked about it, saying stuff like "criminals have no right to due process ^(but we decided without due process who the criminals are)".
Back in my day the trolls put some effort into it.
So... you're suggesting obviously homosexual activities while calling someone derogatory slurs?
The lady doth protest too much, methinks