DAE feel like DuckDuckGo is now just as good as google for the vast majority of searches?
Not because DDG got better, but just because google got worse.
google is still better for site-specific searches, and google scholar still has minimal AI slop
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View original on lemmy.mlNot because DDG got better, but just because google got worse.
google is still better for site-specific searches, and google scholar still has minimal AI slop
161 replies
Not really. If you focus purely on just searching, yeah DDG is decent. But, I find its maps inferior and trying to find answers to some questions can get tedious. DDG I guess is just for people who want guilt-free searching.
ddg maps is just a no-frills apple maps.
which is to say: terrible
Agreed. Even if it were identical to Google maps in terms of content, it runs slower on all platforms I’ve so far tried (windows, iOS, OSX).
yes, it is. but between it and graphhopper (or osm), it's "enough" for me.
i don't need a feature-filled "app" (my phone is 'dumb'), and the only time i end up on something else like bing or google maps is if a site i need to use embeds and relies upon them.
my problem with apple maps is how frequently it has something's location completely wrong because osm addresses use the European addressing system everywhere when i don't live in europe
OpenStreetMap contributor here. What address format isn't supported? Maybe I can help
United States format is very different from the european format and often the apple maps algorithm makes some boneheaded assuptions to translate from a US address to something OSM understands. i contribute, too, but the next time i have an example of apple maps fucking up… i'll have already forgot this convo happened, but i'll try
DDG is just Bing
Sorta not really.
I got identical results with a side-by-side comparison.
the bulk of its search results come from bing. only its instant answers and ai features aren't bing
I’ve been using DDG exclusively for something like 8 years. It works great for regular text search and I use bing for image searches. I really don’t understand the reluctance of people to switch to it. To me, Google has been borderline unusable garbage for a long time.
Cherry on the shit sundae was a couple months ago when Google started to require JavaScript be enabled for search.
Okay, so this wasn't just me! I installed NoScript for Chrome on my work laptop as a stop gap for no more ublock origin and thought something was fishy w/ Google's search page.
Stop using Chrome too
Same here, although I don’t know how long I’ve been on DDG exactly. I never not find what I’m looking for.
I’ve actually never tried brave search. Which is kinda funny because I started using DDG when brave came out and it was the default search engine.
What do you mean by slow though? Like just the webpage loading or the time it takes you to get good results? I’ve never noticed any load time, but I’ve always had a few tweaked content blockers running and that may affect my perspective.
I used it for a few years, realized that I had to use bangs every other search, and reluctantly switched back to Google. But now Google is way worse than it was, so I think I might as well try switching back again, see how it feels now.
"just as good"? No, I feel it is (and has been for years) vastly superior but I mostly use it to find documentation or Stack Overflow answers so consistent UI and concise summaries are high priority to me. Take that as you will
I don't think anybody can dethrone Google Maps yet but that's another story
I wonder how the whole "AI is more important than copyright" thing could play into this... Someone could totally program an "AI" map assistant right?
I still haven't found Google to be worse than Bing yet.
You probably already know this, but you can use search "bangs" to search other websites from ddg.
For example, to search google, you would put !g or !google at the start of your search.
My thought always was that DDG was good to set as my default, and if I'm not happy with the results then it's not a big deal to use Google once in awhile.
Just use start page instead for Google results. That’s what I do.
Mullvad has recently made their google search proxy free for everyone. It’s a good alternative to startpage: https://leta.mullvad.net/
I like startpage more still. Mullvad’s ui sucks.
How does that work exactly? It absorbs the tracking hit for you? So you're just passed through the search results?
Wow this is way cleaner than google. Just straight text search results for the most part.
Yo, startpage looks sick. I'll have to poke around and see if I can find more info on that it looks super useful. My quick test just now was "cloture 2025" which returned 4 news articles followed by basically nothing but .gov links, whereas Google returns way more "news"
Duckduckgo mostly uses Bing for its search results. It also uses yahoo, yandex, and it's own crawler, but for the most part you're getting Bing.
So what you really want to know is if Bing is just as good as Google. If you think it is, you should definitely use ddg because they're the least intrusive.
It's much better than Bing.
i switched from DDG to ecosia because of Lemmy and i gotta say it's even better
This true?
Apparently it's not. I had to search a bit on the website so unless you just want to plant trees, which is laudable, don't bother.
Yeah I think I'm headed in this direction. I've also been thinking about one of them self-hostable search engines a lot
DDG does the job. Hopefully, I won't have to switch engines soon.
Wait 'til you learn that DDG's engine is Bing
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
...........Oh, sorry.
Hell no. If anything, it's gotten worse.
In their defense, however, it's probably largely not their fault. In my admittedly one-person-sample-size experience, 90% of the searchable Web is either Reddit threads or articles, and with Reddit going officially with Google (meaning DDG doesn't catch as many Reddit threads as they used to), that leaves most of the searchable Web being articles. Because SEO has to ruin everything.
So, it's not really that DDG is shitty (mostly), but that all searches are shitty. Though, with the whole Google-and-Reddit thing, I find Google's results are noticeably less shitty (though still shitty).
I feel the same except Google is worse due to higher number of ads in results and most SEO prioritizes Google over Bing meaning more Google results are AI spam articles.
I generally don't see ads due to uBlock Origin. Or am I just not noticing them? Lol.
I will give you that. But I find that's the case with DDG too which is why I'm having to rely more and more on search operators like
site:. I agree that it's really annoying.I'm talking about the results as ads(paid for result ranking). Not as much a thing in DDG but google, they're awful and you get maybe 2 results a page that aren't paid promotion.
Freya Holmer did a good video on AI/SEO i think touches a little on this...
Oh that.
Yeaaaah that gets kind of annoying I imagine...
The killer for me has to be that it doesn't support searching for phrases within websites I need. Latest example: github. I can be on the project page, copy a phrase from the code and search ddg with it in double quotemarks, and get 0 results. Copy - google.com - paste - enter - loads of results.
Also the search function broke for about a day, a few days ago
That's a bit surprising, given DDG uses Bing, Bing is Microsoft and Microsoft owns Github.
Did you try the same search with Bing, or have an example to share?
To be honest with you, I didn't even know that was a feature. (Unless I'm misunderstanding you.) Sounds cool!
If I need to search a website, I use either Ctrl+F or the
site:search engine operator.Yes, I'm so glad that operators like site: and before: are supported. Necessary for weeding out a few bad results aha
Yeah, I'm still salty that Google and most other search engines have cut out some of the boolean operators over the last decade or so.
Yeah I really tried with DDG, switched my phone to it for 2 months. I was using !g so often it made the whole thing pointless.
Google sucks, but right now nothing is better. This is why they’re able to push their AI bullshit results so heavily, because just like with YouTube, ultimately there is no real competition.
I agree. Monopolies/oligopolies are terrible for the consumer.
isn't it just a bing wrapper?
No and kinda yes. Duckduckgo has its own webcrawler, but also adds in results from other sources including Bing, Yahoo and others.
Last time I checked, it matched Bing results exactly.
Yahoo is Bing too
Yup.
I've been using DDG since 2016 and never felt it was worse in terms of "search quality" than Google.
Especially nowadays I hear friends whine near weekly about Google, but it's still somehow "better than DDG".
Honestly people just make excuses not to change what they're use to. Even if what they're used to has changed around them for the worse.
My only real complain I have is I wish 'search by date range' was less finicky use and also worked in the image tab like it does in Google images.
Never saw that abbreviation before, but my assumption is it's "does anyone else" since I can't think of anything else that'd make sense in this context
DAE is a fairly common acronym on online forums, often used in titles such as these. You could have used Google (or DuckDuckGo) to learn its meaning 😊
It's simply "does anyone else."
I’ve been online for almost thirty years and have never - knowingly - seen “dae” as an abbreviation.
I don't believe you. DAE has been an extremely common abbreviation for well over a decade at least.
TIL I’m a liar…
I didn't say you lied, just saying that there's no way you've been on the internet for 30 years and have never seen DAE anywhere before now.
You people are so intent on projecting the idea that I'm calling you liars despite the fact that I never once said nor implied you were liars, that yeah, I'm going to just go ahead and say youre fucking liars now. Have a good day.
I can. Be nice and I might.
If you wish to be understood, choose your words more carefully. If you wish to be treated with kindness, drop the defensiveness, learn to process feedback objectively, and take communication seriously. No one is being unkind or unreasonable here, except you.
That initial comment is quite pointed...
Yours is pretty over the top as well, lol.
“No one knows what the heck dae means you lazy bum. We invented words for a reason, try using them. If you’re illiterate then maybe try a YouTube video essay. “
If someone said that, sure… but no one did. Perhaps the Original Poster needs to take communication more seriously and less personally.
I think you're making a significant deal out of something that is quite minor, personally. It's okay, though. It's minor, so we can agree to disagree. Cheers!
The basics of human communication is nothing important at all. 🤡
Chill out, man. This isn't parliament. Everything doesn't have to be communicated as if we're drafting laws.
Communication styles vary greatly, and tone is dependent on setting. What OP posted was completely fine. No need to throw around clown emoji 😝
It's an abbreviation on the internet. Do you act this way any time you see TIL, wtf, eli5 or other. Or are you just sour you don't know this one
Don't you mean DuckDuckBing ?
I just typed "african mouse" into both bing, and ddg. I got EXACTLY the same results. Which I kind of expected . Same order, everything. However, my understanding is, that DDG obfuscates the user, and doesn't track. This is my hope, and why I use it.
Google is mostly adverts. Wouldn’t take much to be better than that.
I finally left Google a month or so ago and its amazing how little I miss it.
Yeah. I search for things all the time. Thousands of searches each month. I thought I’d miss it a lot, but I’ve not used Google for two years or so and it’s not really a problem.
76% of their Q2 2024 revenue came from adverts. I'd rather pay with capitalist-consumerist shit on my screen than pay with money, but as everyone knows it's far too invasive rn. Ergo, I use uBlock, sponsorblock and I don't care about cookies.
I just realized the other day that I haven't typed
!gin months.It’s just as good as 2008 google, which is all I want.
I really tried, I set duckduckgo as the default for my second browser (I use it a lot) to slowly get used to it, but every time results are so bad I get mad and switch to Google especially for images
DuckDuckGo AKA Bing is complete dog doo. When you are looking for news it only tries to shove in the Microsoft MSN news page. The algorithm manipulation in favor of Western MSM bias is even heavier than Google. When you search certain terms it refuses to show articles containing those exact terms.
Yeah saying "DDG is as good as Google" means saying that DDG is worthless garbage lol
+1, it’s hot garbage and I don’t know why anyone would use it. You’re better off trying to randomly guess the URL of the content your looking for because that’s probably more likely to find it.
I can turn off the horseshit firehose that we call AI, making it far better than google
Ironically I find ChatGPT pretty good for certain types of searching.
For me, its only finding stuff thats really hard to google, like concepts or meme templates.
ChatGPT is great for when what you're looking for is the proper search term.
If I don't know what term to google, I can describe what I'm looking for and then nudge the bot in the right direction till it spits out the term.
Exactly! If I don't exactly know what I'm trying to find, its useful.
Eyeing the replies, does not one other person here get results constantly flooded with content farms? They've gotten significantly worse
But then, I don't use Google so maybe this is still better than Google Search?
It started maybe three years ago, around the same time as LLMs became usable for this, but I'm pretty sure >50% are human-written still. Probably the LLM generates the structure (saves any time they'd have to spend coming up with plausible-sounding texts) and someone from a low-income country is contracted to make it look more legit
Of course, queries for topics that have a Wikipedia page get Wikipedia first, recipes get tons of big-name recipe sites, products get stores. But when there's no obvious market around a topic, 3~4 out of 5 results are content farms pretending to have useful information to show unwary visitors ads
(As an alternative, I still have to try Kagi properly. It seemed on par with DDG when I did a few searches last year, but then their payment processor refused me trying to load my account, support was unhelpful, and I've gotten sidetracked since)
On ddg? Only one or two, which I can filter out.
Google always will return a content farm though.
I also get those content farms constantly. I don't want to use google but lately I've been using it over duckduckgo more often.
The other annoying thing is the air summaries. I've disable AI features but that's still on. I hate it so much
The problem with DDG is that when it doesnt find much it simply throws random shit at you. It’s infuriating.
Whats that do?
So far its still less bloated
100%. I have not used google in about roughly 15 years. DDG has been my daily driver since 2010
I also use Qwant but it's noticeably slower for me. Do you find the same?
I do not think so in my experience. I'm a software developer and a lot of my job is searching solutions to problems. Every year or two I'll try DDG because I love the concept but it never works as well for me. Putting the same search query into Google yeilds actual results for me more often than DDG does.
I have the same situation. DDG has a feature where you can write "!g query" and search for "query" on Google. I use that as a fallback whenever DDG fails to yield good results - it's super easy!
I did not know that!
You can do a lot of sites! https://duckduckgo.com/bangs
Naw. I use Kagi (paid) now, and get much better search results.
As a general purpose search engine yeah it's just as good. Google has some nice extra features which aren't too important (for example if you search UFC it shows full fight card info and results on the search page).
Where it falls behind is for more "power user " type work. I only use Google at work as it makes finding very specific results with keywords and date ranges on certain sites etc much easier.
Nowadays I use Qwant though to boycott us. It's much slower but still does the job for day to day use.
Good enough for me, although there are times I need to use google.
No. DDG still puts less priority in small blogs over Reddit posts. All bigger search engines put way too much stock & rank in corpo social media.
I really agree Google just took themself out of the market. I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped their "search" product completely, the way they've dropped a lot of other good products along the way.
I've never forgiven them for getting rid of their search within results, that was brilliant
I use QWANT but I have the same feeling tbh. Or maybe Google search has been worsening I'm not too sure..
DDG sold out, very focused "bubble" results that they initally railed against.
I like DDG a lot more, especially because of the bang shortcuts. But I transitioned recently to Qwant. It also has bang shortcuts and is hosted in Europe.
Have been using it for 8 years now. I never felt the need to switch back honestly. Only Google thing I really love is Maps and that's it.
Gnome Maps is honestly really good!
Not everything has to be inside your browser.
Tried OpenStreetMap? Quality varies by country though
Google kind of went downhill
Kind of? It went Paul Rudd in Mac and Me.
Compared to a few years ago, it’s better. Some websites still aren’t indexed, and even by entering their name exactly, they don’t show. Google doesn’t have this problem.
Brave search is also pretty good
I switched to it a couple of years ago, with the expectation that I had to resort to google in more complex search instances. But very soon I found out that ddg did the job, and my "alternative" google searches did not turn up anything better, quite the contrary in fact, and I haven't been back since.
yeah honestly I've been using ddg for a very long time and while a few years ago I had to frequently !g because search sucked now google got so enshittified many times ddg feels better
Better usually in my experience. Google is mostly SEO-sludge anyway. Though sometimes when you need something very specific Google is better but that gap has been pretty much closed during 7+ years I’ve used DDG.
It has been for several years now. I rarely use Google now, and when I do, I'm using it out of DuckDuckGo (!g)
I feel like its better than google. I switched to DDG a couple years ago. 6 months ago I did a trial run with a self hosted search that only used google as a back end, the results felt like garbage
It's not as good as google was when I was first allowed to use the internet 15+ years ago, but much better than today's google. Just so much more peace of mind to know that profit isn't what governs my search results.
It still kinda does, since it's Bing under the hood.
:(
no. i switch to using it as my primary search engine every once in a while, just to see how it's doing. i always run into situations where i can't find the thing im looking for. maybe im just the obscure searches man
It's my primary but Google unfortunately is often a fallback. And Google is tracking the shit out of us these days. Certain obscure searches don't work well on DDG, sad to say.
I use Startpage and it feels like I always get the results I want even when I don't use perfect prompts. Just recently I got a three month free trial for Kagi and the results were better than google in my opinion, or at least less cluttered with "possibly related things" that are just ads in the end.
I switched to exclusively Kagi on my phone and it's been a pretty pleasant experience. Not perfect, but fairly serviceable. You're right, it's way less cluttered. Going back to Google can sometimes be very jarring.
Definitely not; DDG has always been bad. However, as others have pointed out, Google is getting worse and every day. That said, it's still better than DDG, which isn't saying much.
There are no good search engines anymore. I got tired of having to add site:reddit.com to all or my searches to get actual answers, so now I've resorted to using AI and pretending that it isn't just making up half the shit it spews. Perplexity is a half decent replacement for a search engine; it's more accurate than most and it cites its sources:
https://lemmy.world/post/26764870
Have you tried Kagi? They have their problems, but I think it's better than Google.
I use Yandex for finding pirated or otherwise censored content.
I use it for almost everything. I only resort to Google if I can't find what I'm looking for, which is rare and typically it's something obscure. Google has also steadily made their service worse over the years. I don't feel like I am missing much.
For me they are even better than Google. But I use Qwant now.
I've switched away from DDG after many years of use. I have gone to Ghostery Private search. It seems to be better for my search results with a lot less garbage mixed in.
Probably so. Haven't used it much but Google has got so much worse. Being filled with adds and irrelevant results that DuckDuckgo probably is better now.
Google just got worse.
Google is almost unusable for me even with ad block. I've been using DDG for the last 3 or so years now.
What do people use google scholar for? Use jstor and other specific databases like arxiv
That's a low bar, google sucks now
Yes, mostly, except that programming related searches have really gone downhill in DDG for me.
Nah, the results are still consistently much worse imo (excluding sponsored results from Google), and I use DDG daily
Better.
I use StartPage because it does image search, and none of the AI BS.
Wow, it has been some time since I used duck duck go. On my phone I have bing for searches as it is convenient with chatGPT integration (which tbh I only use when coding, for which I have copilot now baked into VScode). On my laptop and work station I use Arc. Its sexy af and really makes a man wonder about himself. I will have to revisit DDG. I do remember enjoying it though only for enhanced privacy. Feature wise it just seemed exactly what chrome was offering
I love DDG AI
Just dont use ChatGPT but one of the other models. I find LLama to work fine.
Wha... Why? Why gpt the only baddy?
Well afaik they host their open source models them selves / with a cloud service they have control over so no data going to big bad tech
Yeah, I trust DuckDuckGo. And I like they anonymize my AI queries. I feel like it’s the next best thing to running it locally.
Does their 'anonymizing queries' feat mean anything if they don't disclose how it works or what that even means literally?
At least with the open source models the data is not sent to the big bad tech cooperations afaik
"Trust me bro"
I use Kagi, I really like how it's AI answer gives sources for statements.