'Panic' in Ukraine as leaked confidential Trump peace plan astounds: report
Summary
According to the Telegraph, a leaked confidential Trump peace plan delivered to President Zelenskyy has caused panic in Kyiv.
The proposal would grant the U.S. half of revenues from Ukraine’s resource extraction and licensing, effectively amounting to economic colonization.
The Telegraph noted, "Trump’s demands would amount to a higher share of Ukrainian GDP than reparations imposed on Germany at the Versailles Treaty, later whittled down at the London Conference in 1921, and by the Dawes Plan in 1924."
Simultaneously, the plan would absolve Russia for its invasion that has caused hundreds of thousands of deaths.
https://www.rawstory.com/trump-ukraine-2671169386/Open linkView original on lemmy.world841
Comments200
I am so fucking embarrassed to be an American. Fuck this country and its “leaders”
Personally I'm disgusted to be in the same country as the people who approve of this. Makes me fucking sick.
As an American I'm not embarrassed. The whole world should have seen this coming. This country elected Trump in
2020EDIT: My mistake, Trump was elected in 2016. Americans showed you what type of time they're on. When he lost re-election Americans tried to force his presidency. The Democrats were too weak while they had power, always trying to take the high road. If any country is still dumb enough to rely on the US for anything then they get what they get.EDIT 2: spell check
Trump did not get elected in 2020....he was elected 2016. Biden was elected 2020.
Have to correct because the craziest think he did win 2020.
Oh yeah, you are correct. I'll fix it.
And by "high road" you mean the one paved by donor money, not the morally high road.
Yes thats the one. I wasn't clear but you are right.
Don't you think this attitude is the reason why you're in this mess? Wanting a strong ruler rather than having politicians that follow the law and try to provide good government. If the Democrats were "strong" then you'd have a Democrat strongman and you'd still be in the same mess.
The Dems are weak. And it's not because they follow the law because they don't, just look at that NY City mayor. They follow the money, look at Pelosi. They aren't a party for the common person but the loudest who might net them the most money. Mostly, they're just like Republicans in the way they cling to power until their death. How many of them have died in power due to old age instead of stepping aside to let the young legislate the world they're inheriting? They try to follow agreed upon rules, not laws, knowing the other party won't follow those rules.
As an example, Obama had the opportunity to appoint 2 judges to the Supreme Court. Instead of appointing a judge after Scalia died he let the next president decide arrogantly thinking it would be Clinton. He also believe senator Graham when he stated that presidents shouldn't appoint judges during election year. Everyone with a brain knew that was bullshit! You have the power to appoint judges so do it! The second SC judge he could have appointed would replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg but that also didn't happen because she, a dem, couldn't let go of power and retire. Instead she dies in office during Trump's first term. That's the term where he appoints a SC judge during an election year and Graham forgets what he said 4 years earlier.
Now where would we be now if Obama appointed 2 more judges before his term ended? Imagine what the Supreme Court would look like if Obama called Graham's BS and RBG gave up power and retired like the old lady she was? It's shit like this that convinces me that the Democratic Party is weak.
In a democracy you should strive for having strong people and weak politicians that do as the people want.
If you're striving for having strongmen so you don't have to do anything yourself, then you are being weak. And that's why the US has gotten to be what it's become: weak and lazy people looking for someone else to solve all of your problems. This is why Trump's message of "vote fore me and you won't need to vote ever again" resonates. You want someone to rule over you and figure out everything for you. This made the US ripe for a fascist takeover.
Even now you're whining about someone else not solving your problems for you. Didn't vote? That's the democrats fault. To cowardly to discuss politics with your family? That's the democrats fault.
In the end, you're aligned with the fascists in your hatred of the opposition. It's easier for you to sit back and complain about the opposition than to grow a spine and support the opposition regardless of what your family, peer group, or anyone else will think about for doing so.
Dude stop trying to put words in my mouth. I didn't say any of that. I already explained why I thought the democrats were weak and it wasn't for anything you just said. They are weak because they were trying to play by rules the other team clearly didn't play by, they're weak because they arrogantly thought they could keep power beyond their limit, they are weak because they stand for trends instead of standing with the people who vote for them and listening to their real problems. I can't tell you how many times the democrats would come to my community begging for votes and making promises only to walk back on those promises and never come back until the next election promising to do it then.
I never said anything about anyone ruling over me or making decisions for me. I've never whined about anyone else not solving my problems. Where did you even get that? I never even mentioned discussing politics with family, which I do, so why did you just make up more shit to throw against me.
And finally you claim I'm aligned with fascist using the evidence you literally just made up. You are part of the problem. You don't want to accept any criticism on the democrats but instead make up lies about what you claim I said or what you interpret. You don't listen but you'll use lies to discredit and silence me because I don't agree with you.
Everything in that post you claimed I said or that I represent is not true. Stop making shit up.
Got to admit, other guy had me till you said this. Props, man, you have an honestly better point.
Problem is, this isn't about strong or weak. This is about numbers. Too many people in the US are literally just hiding that they're racist by being among like-minded bigots and not traveling, and then agreeing when wealthy assholes tell them their kids don't need good education.
Fact is, this proved something. Something scary. Those who remember history cannot stop it from repeating if evil also remembers history, which is impossible to prevent entirely.
In other words, we have no guarantees. We never did. We're fucking doomed, we always were. We are all going to die and there was never a goddamn thing anyone could do about it.
Apathy is the big reason for this. About 1/3 of the eligible voters didn't bother to vote. And Trump gained support among black and hispanic voters. Ignorance and apathy were the big drivers of this. And ignorance stems from people too apathetic to learn anything.
And no, democracy is never guaranteed. Some pretty words written by slave owners over a hundred years ago was never going to guarantee democracy. It's just paper. What makes democracy survive is people making an effort to keep it going generation after generation. American exceptionalism created a false belief that the US couldn't be anything other than a democracy. But despite all the chest thumping about freedom and democracy from Americans, it turns out not enough people were willing to make an effort to learn who they were voting for or in many cases even to bother voting at all. That was all that was needed, but it was too much for Americans to bother doing.
There are things Americans can be doing right now, but this Canadian thinks the USA has become a nation that's centered greed and apathy rather than a country of freedom and democracy. I'd be happy if Americans could prove me wrong by fighting back in any way they could, but it looks to me the US lacks the will to save itself.
If you have 1/3 of eligible voters not voting and loyal voters switching up on you then whose fault is that? You are blaming those voters who didn't vote for who you wanted then to vote for. Why haven't you looked at the party and ask why their message didn't resonate or why they didn't convince those people to vote for the Dems? The Democrats failed. They will continue to fail unless they figure out why they aren't connecting to voters, what voters actually want, and how to change into something good for the people, the country, and can get votes.
You don't understand. You know why 1997-2001 was a period of optimism? We thought we were finally SAFE, geopolitically-speaking.
Now - in the aftermath of 9//1, 2008 and two Trump administrations, we are convinced we will NEVER be geopolitically safe.
People do not have children if they do not have a sense (even an illusion) of geopolitical safety. When people literally have geopolitical PTSD from all this, and cannot trust ANY government, ANY corporation, ANY religion, ANY ideology, when NOTHING is viewed as a way to de-stress yourself...
We have a serious problem. Expect birth rates to start plummeting ~9 months from now, because the new quote is "history repeats, even if you remember it".
Hopefully, we'll open Canada's doors to Americans like you soon. Sending you digital hugs my friend.
I really appreciate you saying this (although I'm not OP). I'm scared for my family, my kid is in the LGBTQ community, and we live in fucking Florida, the smelly dick of the US. We are getting our passports setup just in case.
I work in maintenance/construction, and I'm surrounded by MAGA screaming idiots. These people can't be argued with. All these people care about is hurting others. It's astounding what this country has become. A shell of its former self. The US has already failed, and none of them can see it.
We've got a housing shortage, so if we open the door to American refugees we're going to need a lot of construction workers.
I say "You can come, but it could be a natural death sentence; Temperatures in cities
westeast of the rockies get very, VERY cold and you will need to survive by living in a tent because we are out of residences."Unless you can build a house in the next 6 months, own a motorhome, or are on the west coast, you're better off seeking asylum anywhere else that will take you first. I hear Japan or - if you have to - China have a few unoccupied buildings whose property values are affected by their plummeting birth rates. Look into those first, then any nations you have second citizenship in, then take your chances surviving our brutal winters (if you live in Michigan or North Dakota, you already know what kind of temperatures I'm talking about), and good luck.
I think you meant east.
I indeed do. Sorry about that!
Grabbing a motorhome or trailer is highly recommended, if you have any equity at all to play with. Even if you can't find an all-season one, there's campgrounds that will let you build an insulated enclosure around it.
With the number of Canadians leaving Florida, I don’t expect you will be needing much home construction soon.
And that concerns me for Canadians. If things continue on a downward trend, Americans with serious money (note: I do not have "serious" money) will head to Canada, further exacerbating the housing shortage.
Also in Florida. Love the state, hate the people.
Fellow Floridian keeping eyes on an out, but neither my wife nor I are quite "skilled" enough to go be able to get jobs elsewhere. She may be able to but she works in the arts so it likely wouldn't pay much. I could work anywhere being in IT but I'm not specialized enough to get anything they wouldn't just hire locally for.
Hang in there. Ive always said Florida is the best state if it wasn't for the Floridians.
Hang in there and keep an eye on the west coast. If California votes in favor of secession, sell your house or get a loan for it as collateral, buy a motorhome with the money and go to northern California (preferrably somewhere near San Francisco). It's super expensive (or at least it is at the time of writing, this being the place Silicon Valley is located) but, provided that California has already confirmed secession, you'll be as far as you can get from "his" influence without leaving the Continental US.
Other options if you have no other citizenship are Hawaii, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Alaska and the Seattle area. If you can cross a border, head for Kelowna in British Columbia. I do not recommend trying to get through Texas to Mexico, there are a lot of culturally-engrained prejudices that you're certainly familiar with that will have them questioning why a family would flee Florida "unless they're trying to escape" and pre-emptively detain anyone traveling in a motorhome with their entire family. If possible, drive as far north as you can before turning west.
Use OsmAnd (an android GPS app that uses OpenStreetMap instead of Google Maps) on a cheap phone for your navigation, toss it and your normal phone if you have a close call. If you have ANY access to leave the country for one of similar safety for ANY reason, research their current state using wikipedia. Buy your tickets for an airline now and then prepare legal resources to apply for refugee status in the country you end up in (might take several long-distance calls). Worst-case scenario, you take your chances of being deported by creating a change.org petition and hope that the recipient country understands you're not leaving the wealthiest country on earth if shit hasn't hit the fan (they probably will be willing to listen). All of this is legal but will also keep you out of trouble if legality is not a barrier to those currently trying to take complete power in the US. Please note, I'm not an American or a lawyer, I just have a surprising amount of life experience. Good luck.
I appreciate you taking the time! This is some great information and has helped me explore some other options. Im not holding out for any kind of secession though. My countrymen, even the same ones in California, are too lethargic for that. I hope I'm wrong and we will find something to finally unite behind, but for now the discontent is scattered and general which makes individual action harder and less effective.
Trans refugees have been mentioned as the first priority, if that's what's going on.
Dope, you'll find work easily. Our housing supply is jacked. I know one guy that got pulled out of retirement to be a foreman three days a week, and he says they're paying him like he's full-time and then some. You might even have a shot at economic migration now, although that system is a nightmare.
Like the other person mentioned, for that reason, if there's a ton of Americans coming up all at once it's recommend bringing your own accommodations. Even if it's not a winter-safe RV, people can and do build a little insulated enclosure to protect the plumbing and manage heating costs.
Unfortunately, they are not 100% the problem. Certain groups of loyal citizens put them there.
So while I agree, fuck every politician in office, let's not forget to give credit where credit is due to the "american" people.
And don't tell me those same people are just brainwashed. No, those same people would have put a fascist in power regardless of how educated they are. Evangelicals are just clueless and even the smart ones suck cheeto dick.
Sincerely, thank you for specifying the State religion of evangelical "Supply Side Jesus" as its own evil cult, and not alienating the rest of us who stand with you. I always appreciate that nuance in this kind of discourse.
There's a lot of Christians here, myself included, horrified by every second of this, watching people calling themselves "christians" give themselves over willingly to corruption and sheer evil and unfiltered hatred at an alarming rate.
Of course we're silenced on many fronts: Most of the money for churches comes from powerful americultist organizations and donors, who are obviously in the angry orange baby Hitler's pocket, and they're seeding such hateful polarization that even leftists are turning on us and discounting us outright.
We're not as loud, well-funded, or numerous as the cult of hatred and warmongering and greed. But we know that the Jesus of the Gospel who commanded us to "Love thy neighbor as thyself" is not the Jesus of the State, and to throw one's lot in with these politicians is to deliberately side with the legions of Hell.
I am heartbroken and ashamed at how many people I once thought good and decent, who have fallen for this lie and follow such a disgraceful monster.
The percent of US Christians and veterans who picked Cheeto exceed 60% both groups should properly classed as nazis and traitors.
Yes, but don't go full nazi yourself. Otherwise you're just responding to one holocaust with demands for another.
Christianity isn't what's pure evil, it's extremism that is evil. That can come from any ideology, just add "kill your neighbour for making things less the way you want them to be".
Christianity IS evil. Whilst the possibly mythic progenitor of the religion is supposed to be good its been broadly responsible for many evil acts and given a chance couldn't even speak out against actual Hitler until after he was defeated and dead.
It's not "full nazi" whatever that means in this context to have an accurate understanding that certain groups are not in any way on the right side of things. Some individuals might be but those groups as a whole are on the side of power. They've always been on the side of power. They have never been on the whole or on average good people.
It's full nazi to kill people for what they believe. If you think Christianity is evil, then everything is evil because nothing is perfect. Christianity is not perfect, not objectively good and not more than an ideology no matter what it's followers claim. That does not mean you get to go around killing people solely because you believe they're evil. YOU'RE evil. You also aren't being logical or reasonable, so take your jackass atheist self with delusions that everyone should have to face oblivion instead of SOME FORM of afterlife, and go fuck yourself.
I am transhumanist, not Christian, but I understand fear of death and always will. If you refuse to accept that it is NATURAL and OKAY to want to live forever, to try and stay as young as you feel forever, then I am done. Go away, or I'll make you so fucking miserable you'll beg for death. I'm done negotiating with the species that always found a reason to hate me since 2017.
Killing people for what they believe is not what I actually said.
I said.
The percent of US Christians and veterans who picked Cheeto exceed 60% both groups should properly classed as nazis and traitors.
If an organization has more in common with literal Nazis than with decent people its not a good organization no matter what they say they believe
I grew up Christian, and denounced it all at age 15 for atheism. Later, I ended up becoming very spiritual (but not religious, more like Taoist/Buddhist). That's when I started to realize there are nuances like this.
Admittedly, I almost did write down Christian, but I changed it 'cause of exactly what you say. It isn't fair to the actual Christ-like that exist out there, and it's not only Christian denominations behaving this way.
It sucks that religion in general is being used by the vile controllers to manipulate, and I wish there were more folks like you that actually questioned things and lifted the veil for themselves. Seems to me that, at least southern baptists, are practically trained to never question authority and always take information at face value if the person giving that information simply claims they are Christian. Same people believe that you should keep sex and drug information from your children, instead of preparing them for the good and bad of each they may encounter in the world.
Yea... it especially sucks when its your parents. We used to do fun things together, now I have to hide everything about who I am.
Agreed. America honestly deserves this shit. I hope they take social security away from all these old mostly boomer republicans that voted for this shit and they suffer miserably. It’s what they wanted and they still will tell you with a straight face this is what they want. I was never gonna get it anyways.
Don't be embarrassed for the actions of poloticians. We only have the illusion of choice in the US. You can be embarrassed for the human race if you like. Cause "leaders" like this exist in the first place.
This is definitely our punishment for elevating sociopathy to celebrity, rather than chasing it out into the dark woods with pointy sticks.
We absolutely had a choice
No. Not really. People were taught history. We have hindsight. Look around, nobody is saying Trump is anything less than a new Hitler. Nobody is saying Trump was elected fairly.
I'm going one step further. Trump did not win 2024. In Georgia, there is an old Jim Crow-era law that still exists. You can - if you live in Georgia right now - legally declare EVERYONE ELSE in your county inelligable to vote just by stating you view them as not fit to vote.
This was already used on 32,000 black people a pop by several people in Georgia in 2024, turning the tide of the election.
You didn't choose Trump. Nobody except the people who have taken away a fundamental right of thousands of people chose him. They chose to destroy democracy to get what they want.
Evil is evil. It does not play by "No, I didn't get elected, curses! I'll get you next time, Gadg8eer!". It plays by stealing what it cannot win fair and square.
Don't side with evil, just recognize that this was not a bunch of zealots and bigots who did this. Trump literally found a fucking cheat code for election built into the system by people who are now either dead, senile or the last of their peers. The cheat code needs to be deactivated, and playing by the rules will get us nowhere.
Don't be embarrassed for the actions of poloticians. We only have the illusion of choice in the US. You can be embarrassed for the human race if you like. Cause "leaders" like this exist in the first place.
Politicians gain their power from The People. It is alarming as an American that nearly half the country actually wants this to happen because "the other side is getting hurt" without recognizing that they too will suffer alongside the people they are told to dislike.
What was that infamous quote from POTUS LBJ again? "Convince the poorest white that he's better than the richest black so you can pick his pockets clean [paraphrasing]"
More accurate:
The "leaders" of the human race have a long history of shaping "the people"s lives so that they suseptible to being convinced by poloticians. It's like fighting against the addictive powers of social media. They hire the best to make it addictive. Many people just can't mentally compete. That said, voter turnout was 64%, so only 32% ish voted for this. And a large part were probably dupped by the messaging.
No, it's worse. I urge you to look up the Georgia law (the Jim Crow kind) that may have been used to literally TAKE tens if not hundreds of thousands of votes away by declaring - just like that - that everyone you disagree with or who looks different than you (in your county and assuming you live there, it only applies to Georgia currently) is not fit to vote.
I'm serious. They fucking planned this.
Why would I want to make myself sadder. Lol. It's kind of like deflatgate in American football. If you take top people in any profession, and put them in a competition with a serious reward, they will always try to "stretch" the rules in thier favor any way they can.
Our people did this. I see the ignorance and stupidity on a daily basis. People are cheering this shit on. It’s disgraceful.
Living inside the same imaginary lines on a map doesn't make them our people. The Russian government has more influence over such people than you or I.
Don't be embarrassed for the actions of poloticians. We only have the illusion of choice in the US. You can be embarrassed for the human race if you like. Cause "leaders" like this exist in the first place.
Well, Europe needs to grow a pair and tell Trump to fuck off. We need to accept that he is leaving Nato, and European countries need to take it over or set up a new organisation. He can make any deal he likes with Russia; Europe and Ukraine can just tell him no and show him the true limits of his power. He cannot dictate to Europe and he is not our president.
In Canada, the public discourse has finally caught up with this. We'll see how long Europe takes to get past the denial stage.
After JD Vance's little trip to Europe, a lot of European countries are beginning to consider the US to be an adversary.
It very plainly is an adversary to any country that values freedom. Land of the oppressed and home of the cowardly.
I like to think that the majority of Americans also think of the Musk/Trump regime as an adversary.
As an American, it scares the hell out of me, but I agree with you.
They need to embargo us.
Make the US economy absolute dog shit so the GOP gets nuked in 2026. There's enough GOP Senate seats in play to remove Trump from office in early 2027.
I actually agree with you. I think there needs to be a global summit right now. Every country but the US is invited.
We need to figure out how everybody can stop buying or selling to the US immediately. We need to reflow trade to make that happen.
Yes, it will be painful. But, in my view, it needs to happen.
I really hope Europe starts making some moves.
From the moment he won the election until now we've seen a lot of world leaders attempting to make nice with him and appease him. It should be clear now that he cannot be appeased nor will his ego ever be satisfied. He is going to take and take and take until other countries start telling him no and laying out boundaries that they're willing to strictly enforce if need be.
Did you leave it intentionally vague wether you were talking about P or T? I kind of find it nice how it fits both, how similar they are.
Nah that wasn't my intention. It's true that they're similar, but I've mostly been watching American politics.
In the US, there seems to be little understanding of the situation in Europe, which can create false hope. Europe is dealing with the same shit as the US, it's just way behind. But it's going the same direction.
Also, Europe is not enough of a united entity. There are still national states, it's easy to stir up nationalistic moods. And in many European countries, pro-billionaire populists and far-right parties are getting to power.
I wouldn't say there's no hope at all, but let's look at the real situation.
Europe is not united enough. Lot's of states deal with their own rise of fascism. It's depressing.
And this is the problem with "America first." Those who are the most selfish inevitably find themselves alone and miserable.
Leaving Nato drastically increases the chances he attacks Canada and attacking Canada will cause a civil war. 100%
If Trump takes Canada, he better occupy it and not integrate it politically.
Adding 40 million people to the US population without representation seems unlikely. With representation, that many people with Canadian opinions will mean no more Republican House or President for generations. Are the 10 provinces getting senate seats? 2 each? Never another red senate if that happens. Electoral College votes?
Honestly, he is going to add the second largest country in the world as a single state? Good luck.
Will 51st state Canadians be able to move to other parts of the US? Because just the snowbirds already there would turn Florida, Texas, Arizona, and Nevada blue overnight.
the 51st state thing is tabloid level headline nonsense
there is no way it would happen peacefully. , it would only happen after a military invasion or a coup backed by the US. Abandon any idea of Canada becoming a state, it would be occupied territory without legal representation and likely very few if any rights. and it would remain that way for at least a generation or two before any small "new states" were carved out, and collaborators would be allowed to rule over small regions for the interest of keeping the peace. after a healthy amount of colonization of American loyalists, murder of Canadians and imprisonment of dissidents. but all in all. make no mistake, it would be a shooting war, and it would certainly cause civil war in america too, as this is a red line.
you need only look to Eastern Ukraine to see how this sort of thing plays out.
Armed coercion, military invasion, fake referendums, importing migrants to replace the dead and evicted with "colonists'. suppression , imprisonment and murder of locals who dont swear fealty. etc.
But all leaders have to be on the same page.
And then this needs to be agreed upon once again so that the current president of the european council makes a clear statement.
If they got the balls the transition period will take some time I suppose.
This is what is leveraged currently, imo.
But this isn't mostlikely the entire world dynamic.. Idk.
Motherfucker looks like he’s inflated to Baron Harkonnen size
Putin’s puppet doing his job well. The Orange Turd delivers garbage as usual.
"Putin's puppet" is the ceo of the wealthiest country in the world and the strongest army in history. You probably don't like to hear but if there are any puppets they are most likely the 10 times weaker players
Or are easily manipulated narcissists. Trump before running for office in the first place laundered money for Russian oligarchs and an extensive and prolonged Russian based disinformation is the main reason he has the cult he does. Also key point: everything Trump has done indicates he is a coward. It doesn't matter how strong a coward is
Trump is scum, one of the biggest on earth same as his russian counterpart. Claiming the ceo of USA is a puppet of a country 10 times weaker is ignoring the scale and capabilities of US government military.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_military_installations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010s_global_surveillance_disclosures
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinations_by_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
Yes, I am ignoring the US military; because it is irrelevant. It's like arguing that a man's car can't be stolen because he's a heavyweight boxing champion. How many bases do you need to build before the US is immune to sabotage and subversion? How much money do you need to spend on guns before disinformation campaigns don't work? It is not as simple as one country being weaker than another. Different countries have different capabilities depending on what they have focused on. Russia has been building it's disinformation pipeline for a long time and has always been very good at exploiting corruption. The US is not very good at defending itself from those kinds of attacks as experts have been warning for frickin decades. This is not a video game where election interference is only targetable on nations in your level range and national strength can neatly be condensed into a single number and compared.
Or have I misunderstood your argument and your arguing that Putin has nothing to force Trump to obey him? Yet still in that argument the US military and the assassinations are still irrelevant. Trump is Putin's puppet not because Putin is a master manipulator dangling some blackmail over Trump's head. Putin's an unhinged, cowardly nutjob who spends most of his time hiding in a bunker marinating in the propaganda he himself commissioned. No, it's because Trump is a moron who accepts simple answers and lashes out at anyone who tells him he's wrong. Trump is a stupid man smart enough to know he's an idiot but terrified people will realise he's an idiot. He is a weak man desperate to be recognised as a strong one. So when someone who he views as a strong man dangles the potential for their approval in front of him he wags his tail like a good little dog. The former Australian PM talked about how Trump looked at Putin with awe to the degree that it was creepy. That is why Putin worked so hard to get him elected, why Trump spends so long on phone calls with Putin and why the military might of the US has no bearing on whether or not Trump will do as Putin tells him to. Trump is also very, very willing to accept bribes in whatever form they take and shown no limits to what he is willing to sell out for those bribes.
Don't bother. People here would rather have Putin as god-emperor than face the reality of institutional failure that got them here. Twice.
Pretty sure this is just part of the "give them a terrible deal they wouldn't agree to" strat that means Trump can say "we gave them a very good deal and they refused, Russia can do what they want".
It's all bullshit and always has been.
I can already see this being parroted back to me by my relatives who watch Hungarian TV stations
Well... If I was China, I'd see this as a motivation to invade Taiwan.
If the invasion works, it works.
If it doesn't, simply wait for a US president that isn't able to plan 3 days ahead.
I wonder if Taiwan is mulling over a peaceful reunification with China as a result of this mess. Their independence depends in large part on US support, but with Trump at the helm they're likely to face extortion when they need it most.
Trump has already directed the removal of language saying Taiwan is NOT independent (pissing off the Chinese) and is trying to scale back the CHIPS Act (making us more dependent on Taiwan). Putting those two things together with this "deal" for Ukraine, it feels to me like he is setting us up for a Chinese invasion of Taiwan where he can make a similar "deal" with Taiwan where we protect them in exchange for 50% of their chip making profits.
So basically 1939 again, with Ukraine playing Poland, and you all know who the US are playing.
Playing the role of Nazi America.
USSR betrayed Poland, and conquered them in a nutshell
The entire world betrayed Poland. The Allied powers didn't do anything for months. Hell the British and French actually put more effort into helping Finland against the USSR than help Poland against the Third Reich.
It would be a grand historical irony if the country that ultimately ensures Ukraine's freedom from Russia ends up being Germany.
"We are here to liberate you from the Russians....and this time, we really mean it!"
I mean, you could argue they're more like Fascist Italy. The parallel with Germany is mainly that they're already a great power.
The parallel is the country that Europe either appeases or opposes.
I hope they get it right this time.
Unbelievable. Every day, I'm amazed that a man I don't even freaking know can piss me off this much on pretty much a daily basis. The man just literally has no shame, none, zero.
I honestly despise the fact that this man (as well as Musk) has made me into a bitter person who hates. I don't want to hate anyone. I can feel it destroying my soul (or whatever you want to fucking call it).
Yep. The other option is to be ignorant of all the fucked up shit they do which isn't any better 😒
The other option is to channel that hate into action. Even it’s just helping others get angry too. Once the right people (or the right amount of people) get angry enough, this can all be stopped.
This. The Dalai Lama is very quotable on this subject. One of my favourites is:
There's more here:
https://www.alwayswellwithin.com/blog/dalai-lama-quotes-compassionate-anger
It's bitter, but let's make lemonade. Embrace it as the fuel to drive whatever actions seem necessary and possible to you.
Take care of that light which lets you see how hate is no good, although, maybe you can yield it as a shield to brace the storm head on.
We could get philosophical about who that 'you' or 'your soul' is, which feels like being destroyed, and wether it really is. On one hand, this entity will still remain. Though not unchanged. But isn't that a good thing? I prefer being capable of feeling pain, as it sometimes just plainly is a totally appropriate reaction or sensation. I know that feeling of breaking, but on the other hand, if I could not feel that anymore, I surely was already broken. Dull and unmoved. So in a paradoxical sense, it is an affirmation that you are fine, a fine person.
I know exactly what you mean!
So a mafia protection racket?
Except for protection.
Should bring up the whole administration on RICO charges.
It doesn't matter if the USA promises liberation from Russia, protection for eternity and the cure for cancer... the word of the USA means less than nothing now...
Ukraine has the same chance of benefiting if they just help that poor Nigerian Prince and use the resulting reward to buy weapons
Nothing Trump has ever said has been "confidential" 😂
He could make a tweet saying he's going to destroy the continent with a deathray tomorrow, and MAGA fascists would make a tiktok dance to celebrate it. There's no Watergate this time around, only Leopard's All-you-can-eat face buffet™
Except that one time he had that meeting with Putin without translators, and he ate the notes.
No, this is not a joke. I may be conflating two events.
He did meet Putin with no intermediaries. An intern also reported that he would eat notes from White House meetings. I'm not sure whether it happened at the same time but I would be completely unsurprised.
The Ukrainians started fighting before any guarantees and support started coming in from the west. They are fighting for their own self determination. Trump thinking he can just impose this is just not understanding that the Ukrainians can simply say no. And when they do, his all powerful persona will be exposed even more for the scam that it is.
Russian battleship and American president: fuck off!
Now the EU should leak a report that says without USA's guaranteed peace and NATO breaking up, chances for Russia to attack the EU are pretty much 100%, so better to tariff the USA to astronomical levels, use that money to fund the EU military and attack now before Russia has a chance to rebuild.
Have we forgotten that Trump has no power in Ukraine. All this means is that Europe has to provide a bit more funding.
Honestly, not even that much.
Keep fighting Russia without the US. Tell Trump to pound sand.
Oh man. He doesent care if he has power in a country or not, he just tried to free the Tate bros in Romania.
He just feels like the king of the world. We should not validate this feeling...
Until recently the US supplied a lot of weapons to Ukraine. That did give US official opinion a lot of weight.
Since Trump and his Republican followers have stopped all aid to Ukraine this influence has evaporated. Why would you care about the opinion of someone who has literally just left you to die?
Ukraine is already struggling immensely with the US support. Imagine what will happen without US support.
The biggest problem is likely to be Trump ditching the sanctions on Russia. Or even becoming a customer of Russian energy.
Ditching the sanctions is likely considering they harmed the hegemony of the USD.
Or US supporting Russia.
If Ukraine says no, Trump's going to double down on the "it's Ukraine fault" narrative and start supporting Russia to promote "peace"
Knowing what's really going-on, in this world, as unconscious-mind's imprint->reaction mind tries to smash all considered-reasoning from having ANY say in the world, aka The Great Filter,
I'd not be surprised if Trump threatened to outright-nuke Ukraina for disobeying his agreement with Putin.
People are fools to think that sociopathy-psychopathy isn't running the world, now, calling the real shots.
The fascist-nihilist network actually wants all others butchered, & they want to have fun during the roller-coaster-ride as they preside-over/enforce it, as the ruling "kings".
NEVER mistake an opponent playing a negative-sum-game ( nihilist-sadists, e.g. ) for an opponent who is playing a zero-sum-game ( narcissists ), or an opponent who is playing a positive-sum-game ( win-win alliance ).
Fatal folly is worthless, as "strategy".
It’s going to be hard finding an opponent playing a positive-sum-game
The US has not really done all that much. That said, as above, others would have to step up.
But the US has mostly been sending old stock and then replenishing their own. All the money they claim to be sending is being spent in the US.
And anything actually new has been very, very slow rolled. Canada made the mistake of piggy-backing purchases on US orders. Air defence systems Canada fully funded (money to the US) in early 2023 are only being delivered now.
That’s not quite accurate. The U.S. is the country that has provided the largest support to Ukraine. Congress has voted $175 billion for Ukraine. About half of that was sent to them and the other half was spent domestically to help them.
Not really feasible. The US has intelligence assets, spy satellites, AWACs, munitions spare parts, etc. that Europe can’t easily replace or doesn’t hold the rights to distribute to Ukraine without US consent.
There is a reason the US doesn’t have universal healthcare.
The US has enough money for both universal healthcare and our obscene military budget, we just choose to only have one.
[edit: responded to the wrong comment. Moved]
I guess my comment here would be that you may not have either of them soon. Trump has talked about cutting military spending in half. He is certainly not going to spend that on healthcare.
As funny as that joke is (and I have certainly laughed at it I the past), I do not believe the US is indispensable in the fight against Russia. Incredibly helpful yes. It will be a big loss. That said…
If the rest of us stay engaged, Ukraine will have what it needs.
I am much more concerned that the US will drop sanctions against Russia. Draining Russia’s bank accounts is critical.
Worse, as countries like Canada move their energy sales away from the US, I can see the US becoming a customer of Russian energy.
Also worried about Germany…
Trump is not a public servant, he is a crooked business man. He doesn't think about making life on earth better, he thinks about ripping people off as much as he can get away with.
Sounds like my parents' pastor
Ooof. That's heartbreaking, I'm so sorry. :(
How is Israel paying back? Or those are donations? 🤔
Credit to Putin, it's a good play. The only counter is for Europe to unite against both Russia and the current US government.
Theoretically possible, but unlikely unless the non-EU states also fall in line early.
What we have to realize is that, if this were WWII, the one playing Germany is now the US.
The lesson from WWII was that you do not appease the aggressor. Europe has to oppose the US. It does not matter how difficult that seems. They have to.
If not, Trump is not stopping at Ukraine. He will make demands of all of Europe while tariffing and cutting his own European defence spending the entire time.
The time to stand-up to Trump is now.
Back Ukraine. Stand up to the US. Russia is contained as long as we find Ukraine. The USA is not.
No, don't Fuck the US. I dont want to pay for Trump and kins sins.
Just fuck Trump, Musk, and the republican party and its support/propaganda network.
I will gladly endorse having foreign forces enter america to arrest these traitors to humanity, to take them to the hague for trial and execution.
As an American, we are all going to suffer and the earlier the better. Time and time again we see that the only way Trump supporters change is if they are personally affected. Thus we all need to pay in order to see change.
Too many people think that everyone in the US deserves to suffer just because 23% of us voted for the Orange Shitstain, and that's if you believe nobody "found" him some extra votes.
Too many Americans think the rest of the world can afford to think of Individual Americans right now.
The USA is attacking other countries. What individual US citizens think about that is irrelevant unless they can stop him. If they cannot, the rest of us need to treat the US as a single entity and defend against it accordingly.
Do you know how many Germans voted for Hitler's party in 1933? It was 26.4%.
It's because 51% of you didn't vote against him.
More than that, the numbers I keep seeing thrown around are that Harris got 75m votes, Trump got 77m, and 90m didn't bother voting.
Imagine telling Americans during the second red scare, about the political climate of today. History is weird.
The reality is that the EU states are falling out.
This is an extraordinarily bad move.
I'm glad to see steps taken toward the war ending, but this is the sort of Big Mac diplomacy that's just patently moronic. Trump seems to think he can just order up what he wants and it's going to magically happen without any negative consequences.
Even if you're a world superpower, there's only so much you can demand of another country. The Iraq embargo, for instance, gave rise to Al Qaeda and the eventual destruction of the World Trade Towers. (And that was the SECOND attempt, after a group of terrorists tried to bomb them previously in the 90's.)
I'm quite certain that this deal is intended to be unpalatable to Ukraine - it was cooked up by Trump and Putin after all.
Either way they win:
Ukraine takes the deal: they win; Ukraine says the deal is ridiculous and walks away: then Russia & Trump brand them as unrealistic agitants and delay for more favourable terms and extend the war.
Oh, I get that. Still pretty stupid.
This is a racist narrative that relies on the assumption that Arabs have no control over themselves and "they're all the same". Also relies on the false narrative that Saddam Hussein supported Al Qaeda that was promoted during the build up to the Iraq War.
The reality is that Al Qaeda were enemies of Saddam Hussein, because not all Arabs are the same person. And a psychopath like Saddam Hussein doesn't want other psychopaths around as competition.
Try to see past American exceptionalism and understand that not everything in the world is defined by it's relation to the US.
Osama Bin Laden literally referenced the sanctions against Iraq in his fatwa justifying his attacks on Americans.
But okay. Thank you for your response and your insights.
Bin Laden would say anything to get recruits. Fact is, Al Qaeda had a lot of operations going on against Saddam Hussein.
But okay, believe everything a mass murderer says. That makes you a very enlightened person LOL
You know what, you're both idiots. The world has more important things to worry about than something that happened 24 years ago. Stop trying to justify and start trying to fix. This is not a game anymore, if it ever was.
Nah. Even if we assume (which we do) that Arabs, like any other group of people, aren't all the same, and that they do have (partial) control over themselves, like anyone else ... the decisions and fates of a sufficiently large number of them can still be influenced by a sufficiently large external influence, such as revoked access to international trade. Sometimes in chaotic ways. Heck, if billboard ads work in influencing people, it seems difficult to believe more intrusive changes to people's lifes would have no effect.
Since the article already mentions it, for example Germany between the WWs. The height of reparations was helpful for nationalistic and ultimately again militaristic groups in Germany to gain power. Not as an automatism, not as a justification, simply recognizing a statistical causality. Peace isn't equal peace. What's a foul peace worth? We need conditions which support a stable and peaceful coexistence, not plant the seeds for the next war.
Like I simply could not believe he thinks he could add that. Even the most tyrannical warlords of the past didn't demand that much tribute from people they conquered. The Mongols and Romans would blush at this shit.
The telegraph is a right-wing outfit and should be viewed through the lens of that bias. This article repeats their undermining of Ukraine.
I knew as much as soon as I read "panic in Kyiv".
They love to make Europe look scared.
Also it doesn't mention much of a "peace plan", these are just Trump's terms to "reparate" him for all the aid the US sent to Ukraine. Ukraine didn't sign this exact deal because it didn't even offer them any security guarantees in return. Clickbait journalism.
Trump signs deals and then just ignores them when he sees fit. He lies about everything. Look at what he is trying to do to Canada who he has a free trade deal with that he signed and said was the best deal ever. Guy is a liar.
So many assasinations in world history, they really arent that rare of a thing.
Could they agree to it then mine nothing until Trump leaves and renegotiate as a NATO member
Do you think Trump would be above bombing them himself for "breaking the deal"?
I'm wondering if he'll attack them for not signing.
Where from though, Russian territory?
US military bases all over Europe?
So openly declaring war on all of Europe?
Does that seem out of the realm of possibility now?
I don't think our military leadership would launch attacks against established allies who house their bases at this time.
edit: it's 4 days later and he's started firing the brass, fuck
So just kill their own economy?
Who had Trump and Putie collude to Own Ukraine on their Fascist Dictator Bingo cards?
I had "Ukraine is fucked" as the first thing on my list of outcomes if Trump won the election. Does that count? 😔
One is the result of the other, soooo… yes. We can count that.
That's the free space
If this will happen expect Americans to die in terrorist attacks.
Good job inbred Americans.
Take foreign policy issues up with the leaders who proposed them. Leave innocent citizens out of this, and support those who resist Trump.
Ethnic and cultural insults only furthers the divide between European and American culture.
Mmmm gonna have to disagree, as an American. None of this happened in a vacuum, of course, but our citizenry inarguably shit the bed quite thoroughly here, and now we need to lay in it. Fascism and oligarchy are the order of the day here, as are protectionism, isolationism, xenophobia, racism, and nativism. By all means support the resistance, but American culture is, at this point, rife with things to not be proud of. I’ve never felt more politically or ideologically alienated in my life. Our playbook is not it. Use us as a cautionary tale. I hope we can pull out of this tailspin at some point, but I’m not sure that’s a guaranteed thing - and for god’s sake don’t follow our lead here.
Ok, but domestic shame has nothing to do with geopolitics. Other actors can act on that shame to influence american politics, I guess.
However, if European leaders start taking up the viewpoint that all Americans are racists and imperialists, then relations will only further deteriorate. Americans could be subject to sanctions and banned from Europe. American refugees will be turned away. Americans will be subject to hate crimes. Trump-aligned fascists will play up Americans' fears and use the international hatred of Americans to drum up support.
A state's foreign policy is not, and has never been, equivalent to the culture of it's people.
I say this as an American immigrant in Europe.
As a Canadian, hard yes on this. I'm terrified of a potential invasion but I don't hate you for being American, I'm terrified that you'll be forced into something that will result in children being tortured to death, cities being nuked and the world entering a second cold war at best and literally collapsing at worst.
As a person whose relationship with spirituality is... strange... I can say I am honestly considering if Revelations is true, but that my opinion of it as a real event is not reverance or even hatred, but anger. Anger at god. This is not how you tell a fucking story. Characters - if you "talk" to them by writing them into a story - would not typically hate us despite the pain of their life because they would tell us they aren't actually there. We know they aren't real, they're puppets.
We aren't puppets. God has no right to predestine the end of the world, I don't care how benevolent. And if there's an other side rebelling, fuck them too because clearly WE were never informed by them. It's been 2000 years, if I hadn't literally had dreams predicting my personal future 5 years in advance that actually came true, I wouldn't even consider it plausible. Now? I don't owe my parents my existence, why should ANYONE owe their existence to god?
I'm not saying god never did anything for me either, clearly it - even if "it" is just my unconscious mind doing supercomputer weather predictions with my brain - warned me 5 years in advance about something that would destroy my former life. I owe it in part for everything genuinely good that ever happened to me, but that doesn't mean divinity should come with being above scrutiny and questioning.
Hatred clouds the mind. Please, just run away. No one "won" WWII, nobody benefited from the Holocaust. Run while you still can, nobody will judge you for being the cat who gtfo before it was too late when the pigs killed the humans, took over the farm and then treated the other animals as a resource to be ground up into hamburger for their own consumption.
Yeah, Animal Farm is a twisted fucking story. It happened for real too, in the USSR. Don't think that this can't end up just like a story. MegaMan Battle Network came true, we have Smartphones. Watch_dogs came true, the internet is in shambles. Cyberpunk came true, we have handheld portable gaming PCs called (Steam) Decks that are capable of VR. Dreams too can apparently predict the future, but the price is that you will be a slave of the prophesy until it passes. Don't needlessly contradict god, if it really does exist, but - provided that you yourself don't keep other people in the dark, because otherwise it might be a sign it's reflecting your flaws in its treatment of you - absolutely be f-ing pissed if it implies you have no rights just because it said so.
It could just be your unconscious beliefs that are "god", or maybe there's a real afterlife too. I say as far as human rights are concerned, it doesn't matter which one it is. We are not toys to be played with by something that knows the future just because we only exist as limited, imperfect beings. If that "god" is our own mind's reflection, psychologically or otherwise, fine. But if it's not something we do to others ourselves, if you are mistreated by such an entity and you feel sick at the idea of it happening to someone else, then whether there's a micro-god in your brain, there's a collective unconscious, or god is literally supernatural, we should at least start considering one thing.
If we hate being told what to do so much, why do we LET bullies play with our souls? Because if the answer is out of fear, fear doesn't protect you from danger. It only makes you aware there is danger. If you don't believe in the supernatural, or even the idea the conscious mind is separated from the unconscious mind in a way that "god" is just a manifestation of what you believe in, all you need to consider is that people like Trump are arrogant, arrogance is clearly an evil trait, and it's plausible that something pretending to be a god might exist and itself have arrogance. If so, the false god is a jerk. If it's more than that, if any of the crazier claims are true, if it really is a divine being, that changes nothing except the "false" part. Even a true god does not have the right to own slaves, it's about damn time we consider that whatever happens next happens because we're paying attention now and analyzing everything and questioning even the ones we trust most, not because we make the mistake of thinking we can never betray our own trust...
"Trust no one. Not even yourself. People are fallible, you are fallible, especially when you think you're invincible."
Don't just blindly hate. Trust your instincts, but not your memories. That's the only thing good that came out of 2017, and I hate that that's the case but I can't argue that this is NOT the time for dwelling on what got us here. We need to clean up this mess, no matter what we think of each other. We can tell each other what we remember being hurt by and why it makes us want to punch each other in the face all we want AFTER we make sure this doesn't end up like the stupid book demands.
If it's just a story, we live no matter what we do. If it's not, though, that's instant death. We have a 1 in 3 chance of that dated, tribalist lore actually being able to predict the future and it being the end of the world. If you're the kind of person who doesn't put up with the zealots who try to force people to believe in extremist views, take note of the saying "The house always wins." because I do not like 1 in 3 odds of "everybody suffering even more".
You don't have to believe it until you can prove it. You just have to recognize that probability doesn't fall outside scientific measurement. Our eyes are the eyes of our dreams, whatever is really going on in our heads is based on our memories and I remember one thing. Inherent winners are cheaters. Doesn't matter what the game is.
Hate makes you forget that. It makes you think you deserve to always win inherently. It's a form of arrogance, and arrogance is a type of pridefulness. Arrogance is also illogical. The odds are that it's better to not bet immediately after winning the jackpot. Even if the slot machine just dispensed a "jackpot" of dog shit instead of coins, what makes you think next time it will spill out money? So believe what you believe, but even if you don't believe in fairy tales, that doesn't mean you should have given your true name to a corporation that wants you to be a good little data-mining slave for it. Every effect has a cause, we can still stop this, but not if we blame someone just for not being on the fediverse or whatever other broad criteria you have. Even unfair wealth is not an excuse to kill rich people's kids. Even adults murdering other adult's kids is not an excuse for killing the first group's kids. Even not believing the same thing as you does not make a child not innocent. Even if you think it is a choice in the first place, having strange sexual or romantic preferences is the right of a sapient being to choose.
This is the information age. Start being suspicious when someone wants you to hate a group on face value, it's easy to look up if they're lying through their teeth and if they're covering it up, they'll deflect questions with accusations.
Anyway, a bit long-winded but I needed to vent. Remember, everyone should be judged only on their own merits and actions, not what their family/friends/ethnicity/etc. may or may not have done. I'm starting to get really sick of people taking the "easy for them, unfair for someone else" route when morality asks them "Will you stand for the weak?"
Then wear your share of the shame
I thought that was what I was expressing?
It’s the same rationale for why Russian civilians don’t get a free pass, except we voted our way here, which is worse.
That is them taking their share of the blame. Perhaps reading comprehension isn't your strong suit?
I'm not sure you read what that person wrote correctly.
There are ~90 million Americans who were eligible to vote that vote. ~77 million Americans explicitly voted for this.
That's nearly 170 million people who are not innocent in this.
You see, this is how Palestinian, resistance groups, and all colonized countries feel when Europe and North America made sure to suck the living resources out of them, making them cheap labour if they decide to escape their land.
In this case, Trump is treating Ukraine the same way they treat south america and other small nations.
I'm almost expecting Trump to come out of the "special meetings" with Putin with the result that unlike Ukraine, Russia agreed to pay up, so the US will now deliver weapons to Russia and, of course, drop all sanctions.
Strange way for the US to concede their defeat. (One more!) But to each their own.
What I am most curious about is how long ago Trump and Putin first had a discussion about this arrangement, and what the quid pro quo details are. Because of course there is one.
There's absolutely no sense in that, it would normally just be rights to it like they get the first chance to buy it so they have a guaranteed supply.
Why would anybody expect a genocidal empire to stop another genocidal empire? They're the same thing.
Ukraine should have allied with palestinians, the global south, and other people resisting invasion and colonization by empire(s).
Nations don't cooperate/conflict over how many similarities they have (although that makes things easier), but over how much their interests are aligned. It is well possible for two genocidal empires to oppose as adversaries, e.g. Nazi Germany and Soviet Union, the latter being proud of stopping the former.
Another example, colonizing empires fighting over their colonies. Neither did so to free the colony of the oppressor, but to become/remain that oppressor. You can imagine these empires as much the same as you like, they can still have conflicting interests (as in who rules the colony, not wether anyone should) resulting in fights up to World Wars.
How would that have helped them, apart from moral feelings? How many tanks, artillery systems, intel or even humanitarian aid would that have provided? Aren't the proposed countries more receivers of such things than donors?
"Whatever happened to the non-aligned movement?"
"He's over there."
Because the people are not the genocidal ones. They never are. If you were actually a good person who fights for the equality of minorities instead of a left-wing stealth-bigot, you'd recognize left-wing stealth bigots are no better than right-wing white supremacists.
I'm mixed race, so don't even try to play that card. Fuck off, and never be woke again, you heartless self-centered sycophant.
Why do all of your posts straight up read like LLM slobber
I had doubts, but scrolling through their comment history almost every comment is this length without much variation. Then I saw those were all just in the past eight hours. Seems pretty fishy to me.
Edit: I kept scrolling and wow, the sheer volume of comments this length is astounding. I would normally expect more variation in topics and comment length.
It's really bizarre.
All the highlighting
Report the account
Report the account
I noticed the funky format as well. Although some of the subject matter is on point, if you look past the prose
Sorting their account comments by oldest, you see some of that variation I was talking about. There's about ten normal looking comments total, then two weeks ago they suddenly started with these long LLM looking comments, all about relatively serious topics. I don't think it's necessarily an actual bot, but maybe just someone using an LLM to expand or format their comments.
I don't care to comment stalk anyone. If there's a bit or some style choice going on that's fine. It'd be slightly curious to learn about the process, but it's fine if not.
Good user name too
Didn't make the connection previously lol that's good
Report the account