I can't find the original image, it's just been reshared dozens of times on Xitter, Threads, Facebook and Reddit, but nobody is adding context or naming and shaming.
Similar interface, different values. Not to say that the one in the article isn't absolutely egregious as well though, so my point only really matters if you care about OP's image specifically.
What... "I've never seen the least of those until a decade ago". It's such a weird comment, like if someone said they got their first EV and you reply with "I never had a vehicle at all until 25 years ago." See how incredibly odd that is? It's got major "I like turtles" feel, even though it's on topic.
Yes but it would undercut how absolutely dead serious I was about it.
My main issue isn't even the amounts but the labels. The recipient might think $30 is SoSo but it might be everything the giver has. It might also just be a pathetic pittance to the giver.
Everyone working a job should be making a living wage. "Oh, but then the price of my McDonald's cheeseburger will skyrocket!!" Fucking good. If it's not economical to produce a product without abusing people, that product shouldn't exist. Period. I will die on this hill.
"Oh, but then the price of my McDonald's cheeseburger will skyrocket!!" Fucking good
I don't know why people keep repeating this propaganda. Plenty of countries pay actual wages to their employees, don't have tipping, and the prices are still fucking cheaper than America.
regardless, it doesn't matter if people are already forced to tip. it just means you're already paying more but it's just not included in the sticker price
You'd be surprised. In this specific example, many people believe such jobs are meant only for high schoolers and anyone else in that job is too stupid or lazy to do better and therefore don't deserve better.
What's stopping McDonald's from just saying that they need to increase prices by significantly more than that to accommodate the increased wages? Y'know, with lies? It happened with groceries, so I can imagine them seeing this as a good excuse to try to squeeze some more profit out.
Still having customers. Groceries are a basic need, but fast food is a luxury most people are already wanting to cut back anyway. I have been a fan of McChickens for a long time due to them being so cheap. They don't taste amazing, but they got the job done, and were pretty much the cheapest protein I could get without having to make something myself. Even now, without any additional price hikes, they are now $3.50 for a single McChicken in my area. I cannot justify spending that, so I have completely stopped going to McDonalds. Since all other fast food has already done this before McDonalds, I no longer eat any fast food. They've all lost the only quality that made them worth while. Anecdotally, most people I know who did eat fast food don't anymore due to prices. The higher they go, the more customers they will lose.
I wonder how many damn products we use on a daily basis that have been produced with some level of abuse along the production chain. Probably easier to count the ones without abuse, eh.
Oh for sure. My comment wasn't meant to undermine your point. Ideally there would be no abuse whatsoever, that should be the minimum baseline. I stand by your point with you, friend.
If you keep patronizing such businesses, why would they ever do that? They know they don't have to in order to get your money. And it is the same with your own near-minimum wage job. You are working against your own best interests. Nothing will change while people are willing to give their money to companies that don't pay their workers a fair wage.
I think it is the case of "you think in the right direction, but you don't do it all the way, so now I'm gonna attack you over this until you stop doing anything".
Rewarding the employer for underpaying the employees is not, in any way, the right direction, though? Not tipping is just telling the employees "I don't care if you get paid, so long as I get what I want"
How? Those people just aren't going to get the money. Its not like the company is going to pay them extra because you didnt tip. Theyve already decided that the wage will be low
Your logic doesn't really make sense
You don't get it, I think? The point is to get the workers to quit or protest because they don't get paid enough, so that the place can increase the prices instead so they can pay their workers. If the place is still providing a nice service or good food or whatever it may be, you don't want it to go out of business. Just make a worker-positive change.
Most people won't quit, especially in the US from what I know. If they are already underpaid, how can they quit? And if pretty much every place treats waiters the same, what choice do they have?
I absolutely will pick the no-tips place given a choice, but I take issue with that wording. Basically every business pays as little as possible, by design.
I suppose, but it's really hard to separate. You have to pick a cutoff, which in the face of a world full of intangible wealth and costs is hard, and then if you come out with a number that's too high you basically have nowhere you can shop.
There's select industries that are super shitty, and I avoid those, but paying minimum wage for unskilled labour is a normal industry. (And, ironically, a lot of the fair-ethical-organic type businesses are super shitty themselves, because everyone wants to get paid extra and some will do horrible things to make that happen)
Wait, where are you? I thought I recognised you from .ca, but it sounds like you might be thinking of the US system where they can pay nothing except tips. In my province you earn at least minimum wage as a waiter, and tips.
If I were to just straight up refuse to eat from restaurants under any circumstance, I'd be heavily incurring those intangible costs I mentioned, because it's an expected social thing. That being said, I might consider it if I was in the US, but I'm not.
Also, tips have expanded well beyond servers, but that's kind of beside the point.
Well you thought wrong. I was born and raised in the U.S. and lived there until about two weeks ago when we fled.
And in my 47 years in America, I was never in a situation where I couldn't say, "no thanks" if someone invited me to a restaurant. And who invites you to restaurants and makes you pay?
I would happily pay more for my meal if it meant I didn't have to tip. The benefit we get from not tipping is marginal compared to the benefit restaurant owners get by not paying living wage. Not to mention it's added stress to the actual people doing the work because they don't even get the guarantee of a decent paycheck.
And there is a choice, you chose to perpetuate the system that grossly exploits the laborer, I choose to have minimal participation in such a system. Want to take a guess which of the two actually has a chance to fix the system?
But you are defending the system. You're literally saying if you end up in a place that expects tipping then you should tip. What if you're going out with a group and that group decides to go somewhere that expects tipping? Are you supposed to remove yourself from the group so you wouldn't go into a place like that?
You can't take this black and white stance where if you end up participating in this system you also have to perpetuate that system. Making the customer feel like they're responsible for the livelihood of the staff is how this tipping culture is kept alive and that is exactly what you're doing right now. You're trying to claim we are responsible for their livelihood simply because we stepped into the restaurant and ate.
10-15% IF you went above and beyond or performed particularly well. It's a tip, I am not your employer.
I used to be a huge tipper until I realized just how fucked that whole system is.
Also, NEVER PRE-TIP. That is insane!
Or your pizza to not have been carried on its side, as I learned. That was actually when I quit getting any food out. Tipping is a broken system, and fast food shouldn't be eaten anyway.
Yup. Delivery services (like DoorDash or Domino's) and the like tend to do it. They also show your tip to the person. You end up getting service based on your tip instead of the other way around.
I don't think 10-15% has been considered a reasonable tip for "above and beyond" since the 80s. Most will take that as an insult worse than not tipping, funnily enough.
As for pre-tips, they (intentionally?) design the checkout process such that if there's a pre-tip, there is no post-tip. It's basically a "don't spit in my burger" fee.
Complain all you want, but not tipping is straight up taking money from someone who is getting paid $5 an hour. Complain to ownership, write your congressman and state legislators, but not tipping only punishes someone who is barely scrapping by.
So, dear reader, notice how whenever defenders of tipping come along, it’s always the same story.
Oh boohoo my poor minimum wage (which is pegged to the same minimum wage as non-tipped workers in states where most people live).
Ever wonder why it’s always about the minimum wage and never about how much money they make?
Any server with 2 brain cells clears $40 an hour in untaxed cash wages every shift.
They never report it on their taxes, and yet they will cry about their poor wittle wage at every opportunity expecting people that make half their salary to tip them 100% for rudely dropping off a plate once and never coming back, making you wait 20 minutes to close a check.
Notice the pattern. Remember how I was right next time.
Ask them if they’d rather abolish tipping next time. Notice how none of them say “yes”.
Sorry you're getting downvoted. The internet doesn't understand how to solve problems and would instead like for individual people who have no power in this to be shafted. In an ideal world, what people are saying to you would work. This isn't an ideal world.
I just had a long conversation with my sister, a restaurant server, yesterday.
I remarked that the value the restaurant gets from her didn't go down because she did a good job. Why should they get to pay her less when she over performs?
Yes. Don't go there. Don't support businesses that exploit their workers. Just because it's legal that doesn't make it moral. Slavery was legal as well, we got rid of that shit (mostly, still 100% legal for prisoners).
Your exact logic supports slavery. Might want to think about that.
A couple issues with this take every time it's mentioned.
That isn't on a per-hour basis. That is based on a usually weekly or bi-weekly cycle depending on your state. So if someone made a lot of reported tips on Saturday night, effectively making a couple hundred per hour, and no tips the entire rest of the week, they might still make the overall minimum wage for the week, effectively working 30+ hours for $2.13 an hour (federal tipped minimum) instead of $7.25 (federal minimum) or more depending on the state.
They're making on average of a good amount, but most of that work is for shit pay no one would ever consider doing at that pay rate. It is very good money during that busy time, but anyone that's ever worked food service knows busy times like that are an insane amount of work in comparison.
This factoid is, at best, disingenuous. They only have to match minimum wage across the entire pay period, which is typically two weeks long. One bad shift isn’t going to make the employer pay you more, because the other 9 shifts in the same pay period balanced it out to be just above minimum wage. But that one bad shift will be felt by the employee, who went home with less money that evening.
Or even worse, if the restaurant requires tipping out the back of house, situations can arise where the employee ends up losing money in a day. Because if you get stiffed on a big 20 person party, (which happens a lot. Every individual at the party assumes someone else tipped), then you have a massive check with no tip. But the restaurant requires that you pay a percentage of the check (not the reported tip. The total check), to the back of house staff. So if tipping out is 5%, that 20 person party took two hours, and you got stiffed on an $800 ($40 per person. Not unreasonable for a restaurant) check? You’re only making $2.13 per hour (minimum wage for tipped workers) and just had to pay the back of house staff $40 out of your own pocket. You just lost $35.74 in those two hours. Because all of your time was spent catering to that party and you only got paid $4.26 for it.
At best tipping a moral obligation... There is no legal requirement to do so.
Ah okay, you’re the person who fails the shopping cart test. Got it. If you want to change tipping, most would agree with you. But protesting at the tip line is only hurting the wait staff. I agree that tipping has gotten out of control, and 15% should be normalized again. But I’m the type of person who has no issues with just using the “custom” line and entering my own tip.
Not for each transaction. So not tipping is like reaching over to another table and taking some of their tip for your table. They are still paid less than minimum wage for the service they provided you, but someone else's tips will still keep them out of minimum wage for the shift.
So yes, at they're worst they should get at least minimum wage for each shift. But per customer, their rate is below minimum wage without tipping, which is an awful system we need to get rid of.
I feel like "mental gymnastics" has become grossly overused, and I don't think it applies, but regardless you are involved in the shitty food joint's (read: all that have wait staffs that operate on tips) business model, by being their customer. By going to a business that you know pays their wait staff less that minimum wage, you are agreeing to their shitty business model. So then, not paying a tip is essentially taking a discount on your order at your wait staff's loss. The business owner isn't hurt by that, they still get the full rate for the food. And as long as SOME customers pay tips, they don't have to pay any more (hence the taking from other tables comment).
It is a shitty system, but you agree to participate in it if you go to those restaurants. Which, for sit-down restaurants in the US, is most. If you go to one of those restaurants and don't tip, you aren't making some protest against tipping culture, and you aren't hurting the business owner. You are only saying that the wait staff should be paid at $2.13 per hour to serve you.
Lobby against the labor laws that allow less-than-minimum for tipped employees, or don't go to restaurants that rely on that model. Anything else, you're just taking a discount from the wait staffs' paychecks by not tipping.
And I absolutely can not believe that such anti-worker, pro-business owner bullshit is happening here. I cannot stress enough, you not tipping does nothing to the business owner. Billionaires jack up prices, stifle wage increases, and we're out here complaining about having to tip a person who otherwise would get $2.13 an hour, because somehow that's legal.
That being said, starting at 30% is ri-goddamn-diculous.
Also, since I didn't get to your later point, I'm not sure of its relevance to what I was saying. You have no control (and usually no knowledge) of how tips are distributed. So not sure what you are expecting from me here.
Oh, yeah, that's a fair addendum: "unless you live in a state that does not allow the reduced minimum wage for tipped employees." At that point I would agree that tipping is more or less optional.
I recently ordered some parts for an e-vape online. At the payment page it asked for a tip. I was in disbelief. (I didn't take a screenshot, but in retrospect I should have.)
No services rendered, no food being made, nobody personally delivering it to my house. But it still wanted a tip, with the explanation that it was "to support our team!"
I’m tired of this excuse. These people took the job knowing what the pay rate was, and are demanding the customer pay their salary directly rather than the employer like virtually any other conventional job does. Customers have had it, they’re being told to give employees raises along with rising food costs, even at businesses that don’t do a damn thing for the customer except maybe hand them a to-go box. 20% for that? F no. Grow a spine and demand real pay, people have had it. IDK how I can travel almost any modern place else in the world, pay for a good meal, and only have to leave the approximation of $1 or so for appreciation of the service, but in America I pay for the food and a separate charge for the employee’s “pay”.
Thrn stop going to restaurants that expect a tip. Don't go to a restaurant and stiff your server. I spent 6 months last year living on $300 a week because people weren't tipping at the bar i was working at. The bar is still open, but the new bartender is in the exact same position.
You don't take a job at a restaurant or a bar because your life is doing great. You are there because you have no other options.
I don’t have a problem with tipping. I have a problem with restauranteurs taking the profits and the customer being asked for more and more tips. I can’t help people’s life situations, and I’m sure they aren’t all down on their luck any more than someone working retail. Yeah, I avoid places that expect big tips, so the servers get no tip at all instead of some tip.
Those same people only getting paid 5 an hour have literally fought and complained against any attempts to change the law and bring a proper wage. Why? Because they make more in tips than they would hourly. Whole system is messed up.
yeah I basically stopped going to restaurants because is screwed either way. It actually used to be something we would do but the norm became wierd and like so many things nowadays it became just drop out of participation.
Yeah, I'm not defending tipping in the US, but not tipping is only screwing over the server. You don't end up working at a restaurant because you love it, you are there because your life is a mess and it's closest thing you can get to a stable job. If you don't want to tip, then don't go out to eat.
Back in October i had a guy "leave a tip" that said "Kamala bullshit" because he was mad his double of jack and coke cost $8. I don't set the prices, i also think it's bullshit, but i was weeknight bartending because I couldnt find any other job.
yeah but that is what I meant. We did not want to keep tipping at the old norm if it was under tipping so we just stopped being in the system. I have seen the standard go from 10% to 15% to 20% and thats when we stopped. Through most of it 15 was sorta standard and 10 was like I don't want to stiff you but our experience was not the best and 20 was like omg you were great. stiffing was like I wish I had not come out and this was a horrible crazy experience. Im really not sure the what would actually have to happen for that as it never came up but maybe doing two nazi salutes or something might cause it.
This is the case in several states amounting in total to 60M people. For states where another 70M live the tip credit exists but is smaller than the federal number. Many also have a higher minimum as well. For 130 million people the prior statement is inapt.
Its unfortunately a catch 22 though because continuing to tip kinda enables it to keep happening if everyone stopped tipping then places would likely have to pay a decent wage in order to get people to work as even if you’re extremely desperate for money its still not really worth it to work for tipped minimum wage with no tips also im not sure if it applies to all places but if your compensation + tips falls below the federal minimim wage the company must pay you the difference if I am not mistaken
That's over the course of a pay period though. So if i make $40 on a slow night, but $200 the next night, that evens out and the boss doesn't have to pay out.
I am not defending tipping, but change will only happen from the top down. All the full time servers at the restaurant i work at are at "i cant pay my bills" level of struggling right now and we live in a super cheap area. Stiffing your server won't end tipping, it's just taking a meal away from them or their kids while the owner is just fine. Legislation is the only thing that will end the system, qnd that's where the reform needs to happen.
Servers usually have to pay in X% of their total sales to the back of house. So if you stiff me on a $90 check, i lose $3 because i still have to pay that much in. I actually had a slow night where bith tables stiffed me so i actually left the restaurant $4 poorer than when i entered. Because ihad a better night the next shift, the owner was able to average me out so that he didn't have to pay me more than the server minimum wage.
Back when 15% was considered standard I liked tipping closer to 30%, but as a direct result of the push to try to make 15% seem low I no longer tip more than 15%.
My tipping follows the inverse of how much I am paying for the product. If the product is well priced and the service was good I have been known to tip 100% for excellent service. Now that everything is nearly double the cost of what it used to be I am more inclined to tip 50 cents to a dollar max.
They should be paying exceptionally well for what they are charging, but we know that isn't the case. I don't have unlimited wealth to spend either, fuck me for being poor and wanting some comfort "restaurant" food occasionally.
The food prices went up 20% so my logic is if I continue to tip the same % the waiters should still make more money. Increasing the food prices and also doubling the tip is just double dipping. My work isn’t paying me 20% more every year so I can’t be paying for everyone’s inflation.
Exactly, and the only thing they have is increasing the guilt factor. But they're gonna learn when put up against a cliff and a little guilt trip I'm just gonna take the guilt.
All you are doing is punishing some poor server who has no control of the price. The owner who is actually fucking both you and the staff over is unaffected.
I'm punishing them by giving them what was until 10 years ago considered an excellent and standard tip?
Not to mention that servers are, as a general group, extremely opposed to dismantling the tip system as a whole. My complaint wasn't about raised food prices, which the owner would be in control of - it was about raised tipping percentage expectations. I refuse to contribute to the steadily rising expectation of how much a tip should be, and regret my past contributions to that trend.
Rent has gone up a lot more than 15% in the past decade. The whole system is rotten and needs to be abolished, but all the servers i know are absolutely struggling right now and depend on getting a 20% tip on each table. How would you feel if half your paychecks were randomly 25% less? Stop going to restaurants that expect a tip by all means, but if you are going somewhere that expects it, you should tip.
15 is the percent of the tip, not the percent increase in tip income over the last decade. If the tip percentage stays constant, then the tip amount rises in direct proportion to the food cost. The fair comparison is rent increase vs. restaurant food price increase. The data I found indicates rent's gone up at an average of 4% per year in the last decade, and that restaurant food prices have risen by a similar amount - anywhere from 3-7% depending on the industry.
Everyone is struggling. It is not unique to servers. And I do tip - just a reasonable 15%. If a server is struggling to get by on 15% tips, they should harass their boss and their senator, not their customers who are likely struggling as well.
So could you and your coworkers, but restaurant owners are the sleazist, scummiest, and greediest business owners in your community guaranteed. A restaurant in my town had the entire staff fired and the restaurant closed for a month because the owner would rather miss out on a month of business than pay a fair wage.
Honestly it should be both. Restaurants should pay minimum wage at the very least and then customers should be able to tip if they want. I have no issue tipping if the server did a good job. However, I'm not going to tip bad service.
I don't know. I don't think people who work as servers can affect if the food is bad, or if kitchen messes up stuff... They just take your order and get your food. I'm not sure why they should also act like they like you, and you are their favorite person in the world when you come into the restaurant... :)
I know you didn't say any of that and with good service, thats maybe not what you meant. Just wanted to say my own opinion about service... I guess I don't expect them to be fake and I don't like it if they are.
I can see where you are at. I mean if a server is good then im more likely to be a repeat customer so its something the owner should take into account. Maybe the whole thing should be flipped on its head and it should be treated like a sales role and they get a percent of sales.
The same goes for the cook though. If the food is good I'm more likely to come back. And the people who do the cleaning - if the restaurant is clean I'm also more likely to be a repeat customer. So perhaps let the whole team have a percent of sales.
This is the best option. I had a restaurant owner that lives in a millions of dollars home, say that raising the minimum wage would make it hard for them to survive. Okay.
I'm not going to be a dick to them. I know they can't control what happens in the kitchen or other customers.
What I care most about is if they are reasonably attentive and nice to talk to. They don't need to be to crazy but they also should care about my experience somewhat. Typically I tip around 15% but if the service is really bad I'll go lower and if I feel they did exceptionally I'll complement them and leave something closer to a 20% tip
Especially because a lot of people in this thread seem to protest the tipping system by just not tipping. That only hurts the worker, y’all. It isn’t gonna change the system.
It’s one of those things that would help in a mass coordinated action, but accomplishes nothing and does harm as a solitary act. I’ve never seen anyone even suggest a mass coordinated action on this, which leads me to believe that most people who don’t tip out of “protest for the system” are actually primarily motivated by saving themselves a buck, since that is the one thing it accomplishes. See, I have “thought about it,” and I don’t think people who don’t tip truly have.
Part of the reason it shard to change the system is because of resistance from the waiters who make a lot of money from tips, so yes, not tipping does help change the system.
It would help as a mass coordinated action, which I’ve never even seen anyone bother to suggest. Maybe organize a no-tip day, maybe get some servers involved so it can really be about changing things for the better for them.
But I’ve never seen even an inch of that, which leads me to believe that what we have here is a bunch of people who don’t tip in order to save thrmselves a buck which, let’s face it, is the only thing they accomplish. They tell themselves it’s a gesture against an unjust system in order to salve their conscience (another totally selfish act).
Yeah, it's definitely the owner's fault. That doesn't change the fact that the underpaid schmuck always tries to blame the customer for not leaving a tip.
The awkwardness here actually works in favour of abolishing tips and replacing them with the pay being factored into higher prices.
No one wants to be the sucker - human nature is that people are generous if they think everyone else is generous, but if they feel that others are not 'pulling their weight' on generosity and are instead taking advantage, that's the fastest way to dry up other people's generosity. Right-wing media use this fact to undermine support for social welfare - e.g. if 0.001% of welfare payments are fraudulently taken, they set editorial policy that makes it seem like beneficiaries are rorting the system instead of being truly needy.
But when it comes to tipping, the dynamic actually works the other way - people feel generous by tipping, even though it is harmful long term. If a few people ahead of someone in the line don't tip, should they be the sucker who does tip? And for the employee, you want them to be the advocate on the inside for forcing people to pay their share instead of taking advantage - by having the displayed price be the total upfront price that includes the compensation for employees, instead of an optional tip.
It is different, but close enough that I won't be surprised this is real.
That was followed by an option of 30%, described as “Great;” 50%, rated as “Wow!” and finally 100%, which the tip screen noted was for the “Best Service Ever!” per the outlet
That is one example of it occurring, yes, but similarities with the image presented here and your source end at the 100% tip. Everything else has been modded to bait that rage.
If this is in a restaurant after I've eaten, it would get 0% and I'd never go there again.
If this is presented to me somewhere you pay before consuming your food/purchase, I'm leaving without paying.
They know there's soft, weak people like me that find it painful because the guy in front of you can see it. I mean, I'm a good principled person and I've still done it, but I felt like trash in the process.
I guess it was just a matter of time before other classes than the bottom one figured out aggressive panhandling.
Man I'd leave a 1% tip just in case someone sees it and realizes that it was on purpose because I'm annoyed with the UX
Also, holy hell, am I glad to live in a country that doesn't do tipping*. It was a bit weird going to the US and not knowing when to tip and when not to, but I doubt I'll be revisiting y'all in the next 4 years anyway :(
*At restaurants with table service, it's considered polite, but not necessary, to tip, if you enjoyed the experience.
It doesn't have to be like this, America. Not only is tipping not expected in Australia, but when the "Choose tip" screen comes up on US made software, all the servers I've ever had skip straight through it and choose zero.
I agree, the %s are too high, and there should be a "no tip" option there (even though you should tip here especially full service but not counter service), but also the "30% soso?!" Even I'm not tipping this one.
I frequent a bagel place that automatically adds a fairly hefty (not THAT hefty) tip when you pre-order online for in-store pickup.
If not for the fact that they are by far the best place to go for bagels in my area (we have few choices), that alone would stop me from ordering.
Their bagels are good, and I'm not above tipping at a bagel place. But their prices are already very high for a bagel place (they know what they got), they do brisk business, and they should damn well be paying their employees more rather than trying to sneak a 25% tip into every online order. It doesn't even present it as in OP - it's just there in the itemization in the end and you need to manually edit it out before ordering.
Edt - oh and if real, I ain't never going back to the place in OP after seeing that one time.
I don't remember actually doing tips as a percentage back when I lived in Latvia, it was usually that you took the bills and left any coins, maybe added some on top if there weren't many.
So probably 10% at most but still basically what I made per hour as a warehouse worker
And they're perfect for this kind of thing! What better way to punish rude tip demands? Despite how rude it is, you don't want to throw someone in jail over this. A fine? You risk the fine being so low it's just a cost of business or so high you just ruined some service worker's life. This is exactly where the pillory shines!
Demand a tip like this? To the stockades with you! Spend an afternoon chained up by the sidewalk, while people throw tomatoes at you. No real harm done. Just public embarrassment.
it's going to be corporate, In-store managers have practically no control. The person in charge of these practices is likely to be titled a regional director or similar, and even then they are going to be "translating" and implementing board/owner instructions.
This seems something done by the servers. The managers, let alone corporate, don't care about the tip amounts. Why would corporate design a system to enrage customers, when corporate isn't the one receiving the money?
I've actually seen 2 recent practices that I hate more than this. While this is frustrating, at least you can input a custom tip. I've also seen them where they show 3 different dollar amounts that don't indicate percentage but doing the math, it's definitely way over the usual 20%. Then there's the one I hate the most which I keep seeing at places where you don't usually tip. You go to pay with your card and the little transaction/card machine shows different tip amounts, the default of which is already set. If you don't want to leave a tip, you have to figure out which button to push to do so. They're all different and it can be very confusing. I even saw one where each option was labeled in correlation with a button on the screen, except that they didn't match up. And what do you do then? Ask the person at the register how not to tip them?
This is why I have stopped dining out, if the business demands excess to then pay staff and without tips staff go unpaid then what is it I am supporting.
I don't mind paying for the convenience. I tip well. I do wish we lived in a country where living wages were a thing. But we don't. We're a giant slave colony owned by like 5 megacorps.
My question here is, how much was the bill? 5 or $600?
We don’t, we will tip outstanding service for a meal say, usually just a few quid, but it’s slowly becoming more of a thing, like this at some busy bars in cities.
Even if it is, at current rate, one day we'll look back and go "remember when tipping was optional, and less than 100%, we were truly spoiled back then"
So, in the article, the tip amounts were 20%, 30%, 50%, and 100%. They also used capital letters correctly.
I'm not trying to say that a 100% tip isn't crazy, but this photo seems suspicious without any branding, incorrect capitalization and a total of exactly $95.00. Hell, I can't even be sure that this is an actual point of sale machine, it looks like it could just be a monitor.
The issue with tipping is an issue with capitalism.
It is capitalism that has ruined nice things. Imagine the first person who tipped someone because their service was good and it was a nice thing to do. Next other people started doing it as well, which makes the profession with tipping more favorable.
This leads to a higher supply of workers and lower demand and the market adjusts which means lower pay because "they will receive tips".
Also it is easy to vilify the shop owners for doing something that the system encourages and even demands them. We don't know how or in what ways the shop owners are suffering because of the system.
Also to acknowledge their suffering is not to say that their suffering is equal to the suffering of their workers but rather we need to identify that everybody suffers in capitalism (except the very rich/elites).
The way to fix this is to stop tipping altogether. This will hurt the workers for sure but their suffering is necessary in order for things to change, at least under the current system.
Or alternatively, we can try and abolish the system altogether.
Sure tipping for things may not be applicable in eu. But here's another example: imagine the first person who got a loan cuz they wanted to buy a house but didn't have the money at the time.
The bank who lent the money did a nice thing. Other banks and people started doing the same. And because people had access to more money, the price of houses increased to match with it.
Despite the fact that those people don't actually have that money and now it is a requirement. Nobody can afford to buy a house unless they go into debt. Again this is capitalism and the free market in action.
The reason tipping so "people can have livable wage" is not a thing in the EU is because the EU does have a livable minimum wage.
The concept of minimum wage is inherently anti-capitalistic. It is against the principles of free market.
I am literally talking about how much suffering it would cause if we keep trying to "fix capitalism" with bandage after bandage and how each and everything would need fixing which will turn into something not capitalistic anyways.
I don't want to be rude but people should have better reading comprehension and learn to read between the lines or just read i guess.
When the house starts to fall, you can either add a support and pray it keeps standing, or rebuild it all.
And the more you take the first option, the more it takes you to just keep the thing upright. At some point, a sane person says "the time has come" and rebuilds the house.
Same here. Rebuilding an entire economic system, especially when the most powerful people on Earth try to preserve it, is no easy feat.
But it is a more permanent and reasonable solution.
EU doesn't say anything about livable minimum wages. That is up to each member country to decide for themselves.
Not even everyone in EU have an actual minimum wage.
Minimum wages is NOT why tipping isn't customary in Europe.
Here's the problem. You think you know what you're talking about. But you don't. It just sounds nice in your head and so you start to believe your own bullshit.
Your whole point is "you don't know" without actually providing anything. I may be wrong but at least im saying something. Please try and at least say something, otherwise what's the point of your comment? Gain upvotes/give down votes on lemmy?
And at least for me, I actually live in EU and many of my friends have worked and many acquaintances are still working as servers so at least my opinion has some worth.
It is normal to leave a 10-20% tip for certain jobs. However, this is just insane. I would probably lose my shit if I was prompted to leave a 100% tip. That's completely nuts.
Where was this taken? I want to avoid it as much as possible.
I love the scene where a group of sociopathic murders are all shocked at how scummy someone has to be to deprive a waitress of her wages, as if it's justified because the owner doesn't pay her either.
I know tipping culture is extreme, but I've never seen 100%. I don't think this is real.
I can't find the original image, it's just been reshared dozens of times on Xitter, Threads, Facebook and Reddit, but nobody is adding context or naming and shaming.
So yeah, probably just ragebait.
Would you like a legit source? I found it in 10 seconds of googling, btw.
Similar interface, different values. Not to say that the one in the article isn't absolutely egregious as well though, so my point only really matters if you care about OP's image specifically.
They both top out at 100%, which is what everybody in the thread is disputing for some reason.
I reverse image searched on mobile to try find the origin / source of this specific image to see if it was legit.
I wasn't excluding the possibility of some company in the world prompting for a 100% tip, hence why I didn't spend 10 seconds googling for it.
I've never seen 25% until 10 years ago
What... "I've never seen the least of those until a decade ago". It's such a weird comment, like if someone said they got their first EV and you reply with "I never had a vehicle at all until 25 years ago." See how incredibly odd that is? It's got major "I like turtles" feel, even though it's on topic.
I have seen similar suggestion levels including 100% in Vegas, Seattle, and other large metro areas.
If I saw a 30% option described by the establishment as "soso", I would strongly consider stepping away "to the bathroom" forever.
Especially labelling 30% "soso" and 40% "ok". Unless they are bussing my tables, they get 0%. Otherwise it's 15-20.
Would you like a legit source? Why would you assume that just because you've never encountered something yourself it couldn't possibly be real?
If any place said a 30% tip is so so, I'm not tipping.
If I saw this I would give them exactly what I think they're worth. $0.01 and a bad online review.
If you said "$.02 (point oh two) and a bad online review" it would've had an extra layer and sounded cooler while rhyming.
Yes but it would undercut how absolutely dead serious I was about it.
My main issue isn't even the amounts but the labels. The recipient might think $30 is SoSo but it might be everything the giver has. It might also just be a pathetic pittance to the giver.
If you can't afford living wages for your staff so they're not dependant on tips, your store shouldn't be open.
Everyone working a job should be making a living wage. "Oh, but then the price of my McDonald's cheeseburger will skyrocket!!" Fucking good. If it's not economical to produce a product without abusing people, that product shouldn't exist. Period. I will die on this hill.
I don't know why people keep repeating this propaganda. Plenty of countries pay actual wages to their employees, don't have tipping, and the prices are still fucking cheaper than America.
Apologies, I'm not trying to say that that argument is true or has any basis in reality, more so that the argument is completely irrelevant
regardless, it doesn't matter if people are already forced to tip. it just means you're already paying more but it's just not included in the sticker price
They did away with most of their staff and their prices went up over 100% over the last 5 years or so anyway. It's corporate greed all the way down.
Hamburgling used to be a decent profession. Now with such cheap burgers all those skilled workers are left out.
There's no hill to assault, I don't think anybody except the abusers (and the profiteers) disagree with you.
You'd be surprised. In this specific example, many people believe such jobs are meant only for high schoolers and anyone else in that job is too stupid or lazy to do better and therefore don't deserve better.
Paying people a living wage would only increase the price by pennies. This is just another "conservative" talking point without any basis in reality.
What's stopping McDonald's from just saying that they need to increase prices by significantly more than that to accommodate the increased wages? Y'know, with lies? It happened with groceries, so I can imagine them seeing this as a good excuse to try to squeeze some more profit out.
That already happened
Greed is a tragically reliable behavior to anticipate from a Corp.
Still having customers. Groceries are a basic need, but fast food is a luxury most people are already wanting to cut back anyway. I have been a fan of McChickens for a long time due to them being so cheap. They don't taste amazing, but they got the job done, and were pretty much the cheapest protein I could get without having to make something myself. Even now, without any additional price hikes, they are now $3.50 for a single McChicken in my area. I cannot justify spending that, so I have completely stopped going to McDonalds. Since all other fast food has already done this before McDonalds, I no longer eat any fast food. They've all lost the only quality that made them worth while. Anecdotally, most people I know who did eat fast food don't anymore due to prices. The higher they go, the more customers they will lose.
I wonder how many damn products we use on a daily basis that have been produced with some level of abuse along the production chain. Probably easier to count the ones without abuse, eh.
I agree completely, but I still stand by my original point.
Oh for sure. My comment wasn't meant to undermine your point. Ideally there would be no abuse whatsoever, that should be the minimum baseline. I stand by your point with you, friend.
Custom: 0% HAHAFUCKYOU
Custom: -100%
Infinite money glitch
Be sure to make eye contact as you type in 0.00
Maybe it's your job to avoid patronizing places that don't pay their employees enough though?
If you keep patronizing such businesses, why would they ever do that? They know they don't have to in order to get your money. And it is the same with your own near-minimum wage job. You are working against your own best interests. Nothing will change while people are willing to give their money to companies that don't pay their workers a fair wage.
Right,so don't use those businesses. You give them no reason to do anything differently.
All you are doing is helping to maintain the status quo.
I think it is the case of "you think in the right direction, but you don't do it all the way, so now I'm gonna attack you over this until you stop doing anything".
Not paying tips is a good start.
Can you give an example of that ever working? Because boycotts sure as fuck work.
Rewarding the employer for underpaying the employees is not, in any way, the right direction, though? Not tipping is just telling the employees "I don't care if you get paid, so long as I get what I want"
How? Those people just aren't going to get the money. Its not like the company is going to pay them extra because you didnt tip. Theyve already decided that the wage will be low Your logic doesn't really make sense
You don't get it, I think? The point is to get the workers to quit or protest because they don't get paid enough, so that the place can increase the prices instead so they can pay their workers. If the place is still providing a nice service or good food or whatever it may be, you don't want it to go out of business. Just make a worker-positive change.
It takes everyone to fix these issues. It is not a one-sided job. Every time you give these establishments money, you help them.
And there is no shortage of replacement waiters out there for the ones who quit.
Most people won't quit, especially in the US from what I know. If they are already underpaid, how can they quit? And if pretty much every place treats waiters the same, what choice do they have?
I absolutely will pick the no-tips place given a choice, but I take issue with that wording. Basically every business pays as little as possible, by design.
"As little as possible" and "not enough" are two different things.
I suppose, but it's really hard to separate. You have to pick a cutoff, which in the face of a world full of intangible wealth and costs is hard, and then if you come out with a number that's too high you basically have nowhere you can shop.
There's select industries that are super shitty, and I avoid those, but paying minimum wage for unskilled labour is a normal industry. (And, ironically, a lot of the fair-ethical-organic type businesses are super shitty themselves, because everyone wants to get paid extra and some will do horrible things to make that happen)
You're saying this like it's necessary to eat in restaurants with waiters. It isn't. It's a luxury.
Wait, where are you? I thought I recognised you from .ca, but it sounds like you might be thinking of the US system where they can pay nothing except tips. In my province you earn at least minimum wage as a waiter, and tips.
If I were to just straight up refuse to eat from restaurants under any circumstance, I'd be heavily incurring those intangible costs I mentioned, because it's an expected social thing. That being said, I might consider it if I was in the US, but I'm not.
Also, tips have expanded well beyond servers, but that's kind of beside the point.
Well you thought wrong. I was born and raised in the U.S. and lived there until about two weeks ago when we fled.
And in my 47 years in America, I was never in a situation where I couldn't say, "no thanks" if someone invited me to a restaurant. And who invites you to restaurants and makes you pay?
I would happily pay more for my meal if it meant I didn't have to tip. The benefit we get from not tipping is marginal compared to the benefit restaurant owners get by not paying living wage. Not to mention it's added stress to the actual people doing the work because they don't even get the guarantee of a decent paycheck.
And there is a choice, you chose to perpetuate the system that grossly exploits the laborer, I choose to have minimal participation in such a system. Want to take a guess which of the two actually has a chance to fix the system?
But you are defending the system. You're literally saying if you end up in a place that expects tipping then you should tip. What if you're going out with a group and that group decides to go somewhere that expects tipping? Are you supposed to remove yourself from the group so you wouldn't go into a place like that?
You can't take this black and white stance where if you end up participating in this system you also have to perpetuate that system. Making the customer feel like they're responsible for the livelihood of the staff is how this tipping culture is kept alive and that is exactly what you're doing right now. You're trying to claim we are responsible for their livelihood simply because we stepped into the restaurant and ate.
10-15% IF you went above and beyond or performed particularly well. It's a tip, I am not your employer. I used to be a huge tipper until I realized just how fucked that whole system is. Also, NEVER PRE-TIP. That is insane!
Pre-tip? I think that's called a bribe
That's what tips are. A bribe for your next visit
What's pre-tipping? A tip before you've even had service?
Its what you have to do these days if you want your uber to show up in a reasonable amount of time.
Or your pizza to not have been carried on its side, as I learned. That was actually when I quit getting any food out. Tipping is a broken system, and fast food shouldn't be eaten anyway.
Yup. Delivery services (like DoorDash or Domino's) and the like tend to do it. They also show your tip to the person. You end up getting service based on your tip instead of the other way around.
Pre-tipping is how rub and tug's work. For real.
In Vegas start with a large pre tip for your waitress. That gets you drunk pretty quickly
Friends were confused how I was wasted when they were barely tipsy
I don't think 10-15% has been considered a reasonable tip for "above and beyond" since the 80s. Most will take that as an insult worse than not tipping, funnily enough.
As for pre-tips, they (intentionally?) design the checkout process such that if there's a pre-tip, there is no post-tip. It's basically a "don't spit in my burger" fee.
Complain all you want, but not tipping is straight up taking money from someone who is getting paid $5 an hour. Complain to ownership, write your congressman and state legislators, but not tipping only punishes someone who is barely scrapping by.
So, dear reader, notice how whenever defenders of tipping come along, it’s always the same story.
Oh boohoo my poor minimum wage (which is pegged to the same minimum wage as non-tipped workers in states where most people live).
Ever wonder why it’s always about the minimum wage and never about how much money they make?
Any server with 2 brain cells clears $40 an hour in untaxed cash wages every shift.
They never report it on their taxes, and yet they will cry about their poor wittle wage at every opportunity expecting people that make half their salary to tip them 100% for rudely dropping off a plate once and never coming back, making you wait 20 minutes to close a check.
Notice the pattern. Remember how I was right next time.
Ask them if they’d rather abolish tipping next time. Notice how none of them say “yes”.
Don't give business to these companies. EZ
I'm 100% on board with ending tipping, i am just saying that stiffing your server won't do anything to end it.
It will when servers refuse to work those jobs
I'm excited for the nation wide free public housing you're referencing. When will it be complete?
You've never been forced to wait tables to survive, have you?
People don't want to be servers. They are there because they have no other options
Yeah, if you want to act your conscience be my guest, don't patronize the restaurant that does this. Don't eat their food then stiff the server.
Sorry you're getting downvoted. The internet doesn't understand how to solve problems and would instead like for individual people who have no power in this to be shafted. In an ideal world, what people are saying to you would work. This isn't an ideal world.
I just had a long conversation with my sister, a restaurant server, yesterday.
I remarked that the value the restaurant gets from her didn't go down because she did a good job. Why should they get to pay her less when she over performs?
I'm not sure she got it.
They frequently don't.
Yes. Don't go there. Don't support businesses that exploit their workers. Just because it's legal that doesn't make it moral. Slavery was legal as well, we got rid of that shit (mostly, still 100% legal for prisoners).
Your exact logic supports slavery. Might want to think about that.
A couple issues with this take every time it's mentioned.
They're making on average of a good amount, but most of that work is for shit pay no one would ever consider doing at that pay rate. It is very good money during that busy time, but anyone that's ever worked food service knows busy times like that are an insane amount of work in comparison.
This factoid is, at best, disingenuous. They only have to match minimum wage across the entire pay period, which is typically two weeks long. One bad shift isn’t going to make the employer pay you more, because the other 9 shifts in the same pay period balanced it out to be just above minimum wage. But that one bad shift will be felt by the employee, who went home with less money that evening.
Or even worse, if the restaurant requires tipping out the back of house, situations can arise where the employee ends up losing money in a day. Because if you get stiffed on a big 20 person party, (which happens a lot. Every individual at the party assumes someone else tipped), then you have a massive check with no tip. But the restaurant requires that you pay a percentage of the check (not the reported tip. The total check), to the back of house staff. So if tipping out is 5%, that 20 person party took two hours, and you got stiffed on an $800 ($40 per person. Not unreasonable for a restaurant) check? You’re only making $2.13 per hour (minimum wage for tipped workers) and just had to pay the back of house staff $40 out of your own pocket. You just lost $35.74 in those two hours. Because all of your time was spent catering to that party and you only got paid $4.26 for it.
Why are you giving these stores and restaurants business if you dislike their business model?
Ah okay, you’re the person who fails the shopping cart test. Got it. If you want to change tipping, most would agree with you. But protesting at the tip line is only hurting the wait staff. I agree that tipping has gotten out of control, and 15% should be normalized again. But I’m the type of person who has no issues with just using the “custom” line and entering my own tip.
This arrangement wouldn't be legal in WA and shouldn't be legal anywhere.
Not for each transaction. So not tipping is like reaching over to another table and taking some of their tip for your table. They are still paid less than minimum wage for the service they provided you, but someone else's tips will still keep them out of minimum wage for the shift.
So yes, at they're worst they should get at least minimum wage for each shift. But per customer, their rate is below minimum wage without tipping, which is an awful system we need to get rid of.
I feel like "mental gymnastics" has become grossly overused, and I don't think it applies, but regardless you are involved in the shitty food joint's (read: all that have wait staffs that operate on tips) business model, by being their customer. By going to a business that you know pays their wait staff less that minimum wage, you are agreeing to their shitty business model. So then, not paying a tip is essentially taking a discount on your order at your wait staff's loss. The business owner isn't hurt by that, they still get the full rate for the food. And as long as SOME customers pay tips, they don't have to pay any more (hence the taking from other tables comment).
It is a shitty system, but you agree to participate in it if you go to those restaurants. Which, for sit-down restaurants in the US, is most. If you go to one of those restaurants and don't tip, you aren't making some protest against tipping culture, and you aren't hurting the business owner. You are only saying that the wait staff should be paid at $2.13 per hour to serve you.
Lobby against the labor laws that allow less-than-minimum for tipped employees, or don't go to restaurants that rely on that model. Anything else, you're just taking a discount from the wait staffs' paychecks by not tipping.
And I absolutely can not believe that such anti-worker, pro-business owner bullshit is happening here. I cannot stress enough, you not tipping does nothing to the business owner. Billionaires jack up prices, stifle wage increases, and we're out here complaining about having to tip a person who otherwise would get $2.13 an hour, because somehow that's legal.
That being said, starting at 30% is ri-goddamn-diculous.
Also, since I didn't get to your later point, I'm not sure of its relevance to what I was saying. You have no control (and usually no knowledge) of how tips are distributed. So not sure what you are expecting from me here.
Oh, yeah, that's a fair addendum: "unless you live in a state that does not allow the reduced minimum wage for tipped employees." At that point I would agree that tipping is more or less optional.
Also tipping is for actual table service. If you just hand me some food I'm not tipping you for handing me food.
I recently ordered some parts for an e-vape online. At the payment page it asked for a tip. I was in disbelief. (I didn't take a screenshot, but in retrospect I should have.)
No services rendered, no food being made, nobody personally delivering it to my house. But it still wanted a tip, with the explanation that it was "to support our team!"
Where to even begin...
Lol their job is to support their team! That is one of the things they are supposed to do with your money!
Your opinion is a result of class warfare propaganda, to get working class people arguing with each other. Direct your anger to the employer.
I’m tired of this excuse. These people took the job knowing what the pay rate was, and are demanding the customer pay their salary directly rather than the employer like virtually any other conventional job does. Customers have had it, they’re being told to give employees raises along with rising food costs, even at businesses that don’t do a damn thing for the customer except maybe hand them a to-go box. 20% for that? F no. Grow a spine and demand real pay, people have had it. IDK how I can travel almost any modern place else in the world, pay for a good meal, and only have to leave the approximation of $1 or so for appreciation of the service, but in America I pay for the food and a separate charge for the employee’s “pay”.
Thrn stop going to restaurants that expect a tip. Don't go to a restaurant and stiff your server. I spent 6 months last year living on $300 a week because people weren't tipping at the bar i was working at. The bar is still open, but the new bartender is in the exact same position.
You don't take a job at a restaurant or a bar because your life is doing great. You are there because you have no other options.
I don’t have a problem with tipping. I have a problem with restauranteurs taking the profits and the customer being asked for more and more tips. I can’t help people’s life situations, and I’m sure they aren’t all down on their luck any more than someone working retail. Yeah, I avoid places that expect big tips, so the servers get no tip at all instead of some tip.
Those same people only getting paid 5 an hour have literally fought and complained against any attempts to change the law and bring a proper wage. Why? Because they make more in tips than they would hourly. Whole system is messed up.
yeah I basically stopped going to restaurants because is screwed either way. It actually used to be something we would do but the norm became wierd and like so many things nowadays it became just drop out of participation.
Yeah, I'm not defending tipping in the US, but not tipping is only screwing over the server. You don't end up working at a restaurant because you love it, you are there because your life is a mess and it's closest thing you can get to a stable job. If you don't want to tip, then don't go out to eat.
Back in October i had a guy "leave a tip" that said "Kamala bullshit" because he was mad his double of jack and coke cost $8. I don't set the prices, i also think it's bullshit, but i was weeknight bartending because I couldnt find any other job.
yeah but that is what I meant. We did not want to keep tipping at the old norm if it was under tipping so we just stopped being in the system. I have seen the standard go from 10% to 15% to 20% and thats when we stopped. Through most of it 15 was sorta standard and 10 was like I don't want to stiff you but our experience was not the best and 20 was like omg you were great. stiffing was like I wish I had not come out and this was a horrible crazy experience. Im really not sure the what would actually have to happen for that as it never came up but maybe doing two nazi salutes or something might cause it.
Double JD and coke for the equivalent of 5-6 quid isn’t cheap, but it’s definitely not expensive.
Not tipping is not giving my money away for nothing.
Tipping culture creates unwarranted expectations and removes obligations from employers.
I've stopped tipping decades ago and won't look back.
In WA everyone is paid at least 16 an hour, over 20 in Seattle and in many high COL areas.
Believe it nor not, most people do not live in Washington.
This is the case in several states amounting in total to 60M people. For states where another 70M live the tip credit exists but is smaller than the federal number. Many also have a higher minimum as well. For 130 million people the prior statement is inapt.
Its unfortunately a catch 22 though because continuing to tip kinda enables it to keep happening if everyone stopped tipping then places would likely have to pay a decent wage in order to get people to work as even if you’re extremely desperate for money its still not really worth it to work for tipped minimum wage with no tips also im not sure if it applies to all places but if your compensation + tips falls below the federal minimim wage the company must pay you the difference if I am not mistaken
That's over the course of a pay period though. So if i make $40 on a slow night, but $200 the next night, that evens out and the boss doesn't have to pay out.
I am not defending tipping, but change will only happen from the top down. All the full time servers at the restaurant i work at are at "i cant pay my bills" level of struggling right now and we live in a super cheap area. Stiffing your server won't end tipping, it's just taking a meal away from them or their kids while the owner is just fine. Legislation is the only thing that will end the system, qnd that's where the reform needs to happen.
You’re probably right. This shouldnt be an issue for the customer but it its
I'm paying
lol, where can I find this magical money?
Servers usually have to pay in X% of their total sales to the back of house. So if you stiff me on a $90 check, i lose $3 because i still have to pay that much in. I actually had a slow night where bith tables stiffed me so i actually left the restaurant $4 poorer than when i entered. Because ihad a better night the next shift, the owner was able to average me out so that he didn't have to pay me more than the server minimum wage.
Yes. If you can't afford to leave a decent tip, then don't get the service.
If there is a magical amount of money you want to receive so you don't get pissed off at me, just make that the price.
This would be an automatic "custom" > 0% for me. Sorry, not sorry.
Back when 15% was considered standard I liked tipping closer to 30%, but as a direct result of the push to try to make 15% seem low I no longer tip more than 15%.
My tipping follows the inverse of how much I am paying for the product. If the product is well priced and the service was good I have been known to tip 100% for excellent service. Now that everything is nearly double the cost of what it used to be I am more inclined to tip 50 cents to a dollar max.
They should be paying exceptionally well for what they are charging, but we know that isn't the case. I don't have unlimited wealth to spend either, fuck me for being poor and wanting some comfort "restaurant" food occasionally.
The food prices went up 20% so my logic is if I continue to tip the same % the waiters should still make more money. Increasing the food prices and also doubling the tip is just double dipping. My work isn’t paying me 20% more every year so I can’t be paying for everyone’s inflation.
Exactly, and the only thing they have is increasing the guilt factor. But they're gonna learn when put up against a cliff and a little guilt trip I'm just gonna take the guilt.
All you are doing is punishing some poor server who has no control of the price. The owner who is actually fucking both you and the staff over is unaffected.
I'm punishing them by giving them what was until 10 years ago considered an excellent and standard tip?
Not to mention that servers are, as a general group, extremely opposed to dismantling the tip system as a whole. My complaint wasn't about raised food prices, which the owner would be in control of - it was about raised tipping percentage expectations. I refuse to contribute to the steadily rising expectation of how much a tip should be, and regret my past contributions to that trend.
Rent has gone up a lot more than 15% in the past decade. The whole system is rotten and needs to be abolished, but all the servers i know are absolutely struggling right now and depend on getting a 20% tip on each table. How would you feel if half your paychecks were randomly 25% less? Stop going to restaurants that expect a tip by all means, but if you are going somewhere that expects it, you should tip.
15 is the percent of the tip, not the percent increase in tip income over the last decade. If the tip percentage stays constant, then the tip amount rises in direct proportion to the food cost. The fair comparison is rent increase vs. restaurant food price increase. The data I found indicates rent's gone up at an average of 4% per year in the last decade, and that restaurant food prices have risen by a similar amount - anywhere from 3-7% depending on the industry.
Everyone is struggling. It is not unique to servers. And I do tip - just a reasonable 15%. If a server is struggling to get by on 15% tips, they should harass their boss and their senator, not their customers who are likely struggling as well.
Don't pretend they have no control. They could band together and refuse to play by the restaurant's rules. Things would change pretty quickly.
So could you and your coworkers, but restaurant owners are the sleazist, scummiest, and greediest business owners in your community guaranteed. A restaurant in my town had the entire staff fired and the restaurant closed for a month because the owner would rather miss out on a month of business than pay a fair wage.
Maybe the restaurants should pay their employees so customers don't have to pay them? I know it's a radical thought.
Honestly it should be both. Restaurants should pay minimum wage at the very least and then customers should be able to tip if they want. I have no issue tipping if the server did a good job. However, I'm not going to tip bad service.
I don't know. I don't think people who work as servers can affect if the food is bad, or if kitchen messes up stuff... They just take your order and get your food. I'm not sure why they should also act like they like you, and you are their favorite person in the world when you come into the restaurant... :)
I know you didn't say any of that and with good service, thats maybe not what you meant. Just wanted to say my own opinion about service... I guess I don't expect them to be fake and I don't like it if they are.
I can see where you are at. I mean if a server is good then im more likely to be a repeat customer so its something the owner should take into account. Maybe the whole thing should be flipped on its head and it should be treated like a sales role and they get a percent of sales.
The same goes for the cook though. If the food is good I'm more likely to come back. And the people who do the cleaning - if the restaurant is clean I'm also more likely to be a repeat customer. So perhaps let the whole team have a percent of sales.
good point.
This is the best option. I had a restaurant owner that lives in a millions of dollars home, say that raising the minimum wage would make it hard for them to survive. Okay.
I'm not going to be a dick to them. I know they can't control what happens in the kitchen or other customers.
What I care most about is if they are reasonably attentive and nice to talk to. They don't need to be to crazy but they also should care about my experience somewhat. Typically I tip around 15% but if the service is really bad I'll go lower and if I feel they did exceptionally I'll complement them and leave something closer to a 20% tip
I hate to break this to you, but the customer pays in all scenarios.
But, yes, the employer should pay a living wage and include their overhead costs into the price of the goods.
Wages should not be dependant on the kindness of strangers.
I'm not mad about paying it. I'm mad that the employer is treating it as an option and not an obligation
Especially because a lot of people in this thread seem to protest the tipping system by just not tipping. That only hurts the worker, y’all. It isn’t gonna change the system.
It may actually change the system. Think about it.
It’s one of those things that would help in a mass coordinated action, but accomplishes nothing and does harm as a solitary act. I’ve never seen anyone even suggest a mass coordinated action on this, which leads me to believe that most people who don’t tip out of “protest for the system” are actually primarily motivated by saving themselves a buck, since that is the one thing it accomplishes. See, I have “thought about it,” and I don’t think people who don’t tip truly have.
Part of the reason it shard to change the system is because of resistance from the waiters who make a lot of money from tips, so yes, not tipping does help change the system.
It would help as a mass coordinated action, which I’ve never even seen anyone bother to suggest. Maybe organize a no-tip day, maybe get some servers involved so it can really be about changing things for the better for them.
But I’ve never seen even an inch of that, which leads me to believe that what we have here is a bunch of people who don’t tip in order to save thrmselves a buck which, let’s face it, is the only thing they accomplish. They tell themselves it’s a gesture against an unjust system in order to salve their conscience (another totally selfish act).
Select "Custom" and type 0.00 without breaking eye contact. Be careful, though, that 0.00 can quickly turn into 8.88 if you're not looking.
You really think it's the owner and not some poor, underpaid schmuck manning the register?
Yeah, it's definitely the owner's fault. That doesn't change the fact that the underpaid schmuck always tries to blame the customer for not leaving a tip.
The awkwardness here actually works in favour of abolishing tips and replacing them with the pay being factored into higher prices.
No one wants to be the sucker - human nature is that people are generous if they think everyone else is generous, but if they feel that others are not 'pulling their weight' on generosity and are instead taking advantage, that's the fastest way to dry up other people's generosity. Right-wing media use this fact to undermine support for social welfare - e.g. if 0.001% of welfare payments are fraudulently taken, they set editorial policy that makes it seem like beneficiaries are rorting the system instead of being truly needy.
But when it comes to tipping, the dynamic actually works the other way - people feel generous by tipping, even though it is harmful long term. If a few people ahead of someone in the line don't tip, should they be the sucker who does tip? And for the employee, you want them to be the advocate on the inside for forcing people to pay their share instead of taking advantage - by having the displayed price be the total upfront price that includes the compensation for employees, instead of an optional tip.
This was at a self-service kiosk, too, right?
That means the tip goes to the customer, right?
/s
30% is soso? Go fuck yourselves.
I also can't believe it is real, but I wouldn't discount it as being fake. Similar case below:
https://nypost.com/2023/10/25/business/alaskan-restaurants-100-tip-option-appalls-vacationer/
Your link shows an entirely different tip screen.
It is different, but close enough that I won't be surprised this is real.
That was followed by an option of 30%, described as “Great;” 50%, rated as “Wow!” and finally 100%, which the tip screen noted was for the “Best Service Ever!” per the outlet
That is one example of it occurring, yes, but similarities with the image presented here and your source end at the 100% tip. Everything else has been modded to bait that rage.
This would get an immediate Custom -> 0% from me the moment I see it.
Fucking "soso" for a 20% tip the hell
As a dev I would try negative value in the custom field.
There's no 20 it's 30%!! Insane.
If this is in a restaurant after I've eaten, it would get 0% and I'd never go there again.
If this is presented to me somewhere you pay before consuming your food/purchase, I'm leaving without paying.
They know there's soft, weak people like me that find it painful because the guy in front of you can see it. I mean, I'm a good principled person and I've still done it, but I felt like trash in the process.
I guess it was just a matter of time before other classes than the bottom one figured out aggressive panhandling.
Man I'd leave a 1% tip just in case someone sees it and realizes that it was on purpose because I'm annoyed with the UX
Also, holy hell, am I glad to live in a country that doesn't do tipping*. It was a bit weird going to the US and not knowing when to tip and when not to, but I doubt I'll be revisiting y'all in the next 4 years anyway :(
*At restaurants with table service, it's considered polite, but not necessary, to tip, if you enjoyed the experience.
Custom: 0%
Every time.
If they give me the No Tip option, I usually tip a little bit. But fuck off with this idea that you should be tipped. It helps no one.
30%: underpaid
40%: immorally underpaid
50%; criminally underpaid
100%: Les Miserables
It doesn't have to be like this, America. Not only is tipping not expected in Australia, but when the "Choose tip" screen comes up on US made software, all the servers I've ever had skip straight through it and choose zero.
Servers deserve to be paid fairly.
soso is the same sound as a word that means breasts in my mother tongue.
Could be worth it under the best of circumstances.
"How much will you tip?
"TITS!"
Beats just the tip.
I'm not even paying the bill at that point.
That's an immediate $0.
The moment they ask for a tip they are not getting anything nor a repeat customer.
Presenting the possibility to tip on the screen is ok, I think. The tone (and from my European perspective the percentages) is, what I find weird.
I agree, the %s are too high, and there should be a "no tip" option there (even though you should tip here especially full service but not counter service), but also the "30% soso?!" Even I'm not tipping this one.
30% is "soso" but a 100% is only "Thank You"? In this case the 100% should be "Walk over to the other side of the register so the boss can blow You".
I frequent a bagel place that automatically adds a fairly hefty (not THAT hefty) tip when you pre-order online for in-store pickup.
If not for the fact that they are by far the best place to go for bagels in my area (we have few choices), that alone would stop me from ordering.
Their bagels are good, and I'm not above tipping at a bagel place. But their prices are already very high for a bagel place (they know what they got), they do brisk business, and they should damn well be paying their employees more rather than trying to sneak a 25% tip into every online order. It doesn't even present it as in OP - it's just there in the itemization in the end and you need to manually edit it out before ordering.
Edt - oh and if real, I ain't never going back to the place in OP after seeing that one time.
If real...
Isn't 10% the usual tip amount?
It was 30 years ago, but the tipping percentage has been subject to inflation for some reason right alongside the cost of the service.
Feels like an intentional double dip as a fuck you to me.
Yeah, I figured so. My knowledge on American tipping culture is based on 90s movies.
The reason is that minimum wage has been stagnant for the last 20 years. Servers are still getting paid $5 an hour plus their tips.
America seems to be a bit crazy.
Pretty sure 0%-10% is standard in the UK. Though a lot of those cheeky service charges are around 12.5
I don't remember actually doing tips as a percentage back when I lived in Latvia, it was usually that you took the bills and left any coins, maybe added some on top if there weren't many.
So probably 10% at most but still basically what I made per hour as a warehouse worker
15% has been the standard for many decades, and even that is supposed to be optional.
Uh...15% is. Or maybe 20% at a sit down restaurant.
We need to bring back the public stockades.
Nothing like a good pillory to brighten your day!
And they're perfect for this kind of thing! What better way to punish rude tip demands? Despite how rude it is, you don't want to throw someone in jail over this. A fine? You risk the fine being so low it's just a cost of business or so high you just ruined some service worker's life. This is exactly where the pillory shines!
Demand a tip like this? To the stockades with you! Spend an afternoon chained up by the sidewalk, while people throw tomatoes at you. No real harm done. Just public embarrassment.
I gu-ar-an-tea the server didn't make up those tips, so we're talking about the manager, or corporate flunky in the stocks, right?
it's going to be corporate, In-store managers have practically no control. The person in charge of these practices is likely to be titled a regional director or similar, and even then they are going to be "translating" and implementing board/owner instructions.
Cool, do we make them wear their taylored suits while in the stocks? If so, I'm so in on this idea.
but of course. unless stripping them nude is an option.
This seems something done by the servers. The managers, let alone corporate, don't care about the tip amounts. Why would corporate design a system to enrage customers, when corporate isn't the one receiving the money?
I've actually seen 2 recent practices that I hate more than this. While this is frustrating, at least you can input a custom tip. I've also seen them where they show 3 different dollar amounts that don't indicate percentage but doing the math, it's definitely way over the usual 20%. Then there's the one I hate the most which I keep seeing at places where you don't usually tip. You go to pay with your card and the little transaction/card machine shows different tip amounts, the default of which is already set. If you don't want to leave a tip, you have to figure out which button to push to do so. They're all different and it can be very confusing. I even saw one where each option was labeled in correlation with a button on the screen, except that they didn't match up. And what do you do then? Ask the person at the register how not to tip them?
I leave a Google review for places that have shitty tipping practices.
[to cashier] "excuse me, ma'am, i can't seem to find the button to not leave a tip. can you show me where it is?"
I enjoy quietly asking, "do these tips actually go to you?"
I've gotten a discreet "no" headshake more than a few times. Then you can feel justified taking however long you want to select zero.
You bet I would.
I would.
This is why I have stopped dining out, if the business demands excess to then pay staff and without tips staff go unpaid then what is it I am supporting.
"100€, keep the change."
I award you no tips, and may God have mercy on your soul!
Fake: Tip isn't calculated on top of tax.
Edit: this was a joke
That kinda depends where you live. Also, source
Tip 1% whenever they dont offer a realistic choice
I don't mind paying for the convenience. I tip well. I do wish we lived in a country where living wages were a thing. But we don't. We're a giant slave colony owned by like 5 megacorps.
My question here is, how much was the bill? 5 or $600?
95, lol, the percentages are there on the screen
Yep. Sure is. Hopefully that makes my blonde moment quota for a few days.
If you look at the screenshot you can see the bill is $95
“soso” 😂 I’m laughing but it’s not funny
At this point I'd go full Karen asking to speak to the supervisor, then taking my business elsewhere.
Vote with your wallet.
This is clearly fake, right?
Dunno. I’ve seen this in the UK.
I thought y'all didn't have a tipping culture?
It's creeping in all over Europe with the card machines. Tipping requests are on by default.
We don’t, we will tip outstanding service for a meal say, usually just a few quid, but it’s slowly becoming more of a thing, like this at some busy bars in cities.
Even if it is, at current rate, one day we'll look back and go "remember when tipping was optional, and less than 100%, we were truly spoiled back then"
Nope
So, in the article, the tip amounts were 20%, 30%, 50%, and 100%. They also used capital letters correctly.
I'm not trying to say that a 100% tip isn't crazy, but this photo seems suspicious without any branding, incorrect capitalization and a total of exactly $95.00. Hell, I can't even be sure that this is an actual point of sale machine, it looks like it could just be a monitor.
100% you only receive a thank you?
Bastards
It’s fake rage bait you have fallen for
It may be but coming from the USA I don't doubt, my European mind is not able to understand that
It's not
Nice precedent for corruption
So hard to get a thank you. Manners these days...
The issue with tipping is an issue with capitalism.
It is capitalism that has ruined nice things. Imagine the first person who tipped someone because their service was good and it was a nice thing to do. Next other people started doing it as well, which makes the profession with tipping more favorable.
This leads to a higher supply of workers and lower demand and the market adjusts which means lower pay because "they will receive tips".
Also it is easy to vilify the shop owners for doing something that the system encourages and even demands them. We don't know how or in what ways the shop owners are suffering because of the system.
Also to acknowledge their suffering is not to say that their suffering is equal to the suffering of their workers but rather we need to identify that everybody suffers in capitalism (except the very rich/elites).
The way to fix this is to stop tipping altogether. This will hurt the workers for sure but their suffering is necessary in order for things to change, at least under the current system.
Or alternatively, we can try and abolish the system altogether.
"There's no way to prevent this" - Says the only country where this happens regularly.
It's not a "Capitalism" problem. It's a USA problem.
I'd say both. You guys just did a speed run.
I mean, tipping culture only seems to be a problem in the US. Countries in Europe and what have you are fine and they are still capitalist.
Sure tipping for things may not be applicable in eu. But here's another example: imagine the first person who got a loan cuz they wanted to buy a house but didn't have the money at the time.
The bank who lent the money did a nice thing. Other banks and people started doing the same. And because people had access to more money, the price of houses increased to match with it.
Despite the fact that those people don't actually have that money and now it is a requirement. Nobody can afford to buy a house unless they go into debt. Again this is capitalism and the free market in action.
The reason tipping so "people can have livable wage" is not a thing in the EU is because the EU does have a livable minimum wage.
The concept of minimum wage is inherently anti-capitalistic. It is against the principles of free market.
So the answer isn’t simply “Abolish capitalism” the answer is actually “Capitalism but with logical rules and regulations”
Lol, what?
I am literally talking about how much suffering it would cause if we keep trying to "fix capitalism" with bandage after bandage and how each and everything would need fixing which will turn into something not capitalistic anyways.
I don't want to be rude but people should have better reading comprehension and learn to read between the lines or just read i guess.
So the “easier” solution is to tear the entire thing down and make something new from scratch? Seems like it’d be far, far harder to do that
When the house starts to fall, you can either add a support and pray it keeps standing, or rebuild it all.
And the more you take the first option, the more it takes you to just keep the thing upright. At some point, a sane person says "the time has come" and rebuilds the house.
Same here. Rebuilding an entire economic system, especially when the most powerful people on Earth try to preserve it, is no easy feat.
But it is a more permanent and reasonable solution.
EU doesn't say anything about livable minimum wages. That is up to each member country to decide for themselves.
Not even everyone in EU have an actual minimum wage.
Minimum wages is NOT why tipping isn't customary in Europe.
Here's the problem. You think you know what you're talking about. But you don't. It just sounds nice in your head and so you start to believe your own bullshit.
Your whole point is "you don't know" without actually providing anything. I may be wrong but at least im saying something. Please try and at least say something, otherwise what's the point of your comment? Gain upvotes/give down votes on lemmy?
And at least for me, I actually live in EU and many of my friends have worked and many acquaintances are still working as servers so at least my opinion has some worth.
Where are you from btw?
Yes. My comment is all about letting people know that you are spreading misinformation and talk out of your ass.
It's far better to say nothing, than to say stuff that are wrong, just for the sake of saying something.
I'm from Sweden if you need to know.
Hey I know this is completely off-topic, but do you have thoughts on the moral implications of NATO?
It is normal to leave a 10-20% tip for certain jobs. However, this is just insane. I would probably lose my shit if I was prompted to leave a 100% tip. That's completely nuts.
Where was this taken? I want to avoid it as much as possible.
ok
ITT.
I love the scene where a group of sociopathic murders are all shocked at how scummy someone has to be to deprive a waitress of her wages, as if it's justified because the owner doesn't pay her either.
It is absolutely justified. Businesses are able to pay employees, it's just more profitable to move that burden onto customers.
Result? Customers pay more, and workers don't have a stable income. The only winning party is a business.
By tipping, you help the worker short-term, but aid in proliferating a system that makes it so much worse for them.
That's why I love cultures where tipping isn't just uncommon, but is flat out rejected, because workers are paid well and are proud of it.
That's wonderful in cultures where that already exists.
For the waitress though, because of your "morals", she's choosing between rent and food.