Led by RFK Jr., Conservatives Embrace Raw Milk. Regulators Say It’s Dangerous.
https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/raw-milk-rfk-conservatives-regulators-mark-mcafee/Open linkView original on ponder.cat504
Comments266https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/raw-milk-rfk-conservatives-regulators-mark-mcafee/Open linkView original on ponder.cat
Fun fact: nearly 40% of all foodborne illnesses were caused by raw milk consumption. Pasteurization has reduced that number down to less than 1%, except in places where raw milk consumption is still allowed.
Been only buying organic milk for 10+ years now out of preference, it stays fresh for much longer than normal milk. This is because USDA Organic milk is ultra-pasteurized in almost the same way as shelf-stable milk.
I searched and found this article and they reported that there's virtually no difference in nutrients between the options:
https://www.100daysofrealfood.com/is-ultra-pasteurized-milk-bad/
So if all the nutrients are the same, the only difference in less pasteurization is more bacteria. Fuck that!
I think it definitely affects the taste though doesn't it? I prefer the organic ones that are vat pasteurized due to that reason, ultra feels sweeter to me.
It pretty much always tastes like good fresh milk to me
Legal in the UK, fucking read a book.
Raw milk is not safe by any standard. Removed for misinformation.
What's the point though. I don't eat raw meat or raw eggs so why would I eat raw milk. If it contains protein and fat then my nutritional needs are satisfied - simple as that really
The opinion of a person apparently never had steak tartar, sashimi, met, whisky sours made properly, or eggs over easy is pretty much worthless.
I eat fried eggs over easy most days of the week. I've had sushi and sashimi multiple times. Never had steak tartar and I don't drink anymore though.
Haven't heard of runny egg yolk posing the same risk of containing harmful bacteria as raw milk.
Steak tartar and sushi fish have to come from certified producers as far as i know. Surely raw milk is the same.
But I doubt anyone eats those things every day of the week, throughout the day, like they do with milk.
just look at all those dead englishmen
Let them. Darwin wins.
Unfortunately it's not that simple. Avian flu and other viruses can potentially spread from cows to humans, where it's more likely to mutate and spread. It's never the risk-accepters that suffer most. It's always the sick, the poor, the very young and the very old, and the healthcare workers who suffer. The people who refused to get vaccines or take even basic precautions with COVID killed a lot of people, while the vast majority of those assholes survived.
But then the fault is obviously DEI, because it made the birds gay or something...
A coworker of mine (African American) lost three cousins to COVID. Minorities are less likely to have good healthcare or the resources to pay out of pocket when necessary. I'm mostly on team Darwin too but I agree it's not just the idiots that will get hurt. The way things are going schools might even start teaching that raw milk isn't that harmful.
And when more parents start giving their kids raw milk, what then?
Forcing kids to eat dangerous food is child abuse.
Can anyone explain to me why conservatives love raw milk so much? Is it like more profitable or something? Why the hell does this keep coming up?
Science-denying anti-intellectualism mixed with "you can't tell me what to do!"
Exactly. And we should exploit that by telling them it's not safe to consume Arsenic or lick a lead bar multiple times a day, every day. They'll be like, "oh yeah! watch me lib tard!". And the population will shrink. :)
How about a glass of Hemlock juice? All those intellectuals and "city doctors" will try to get you away from that stuff, so it must be good!
Socrates was even said to have drank it!
Hey, it turns out that lead acetate is a natural, calorie-free, sweetener! In fact, the ancient Romans used it. The FDA doesn't want you to use this because they're in bed with Big Sugar and the Splenda people.
I keep myself healthy with a nice refreshing glass of atomic healing elixir (radium solution) and you should too! Ignore the FDA banning it a couple decades back for giving people radiation/heavy metal poisoning.
Ah yes. I patiently await the return of Radium Revigorators! They're hard to find these days.
They're like toddlers. You tell them they shouldn't and they will do everything in their power to do it anyways. They don't believe in science so everything is a "radical far left jewish space laser" conspiracy to take away their freedumbs.
As far as I can tell: It's partially the same shit as the anti vaccine mixed with being angry about government regulations.
A lot of the anecdotes I've heard about raw.milk being safe, are from small farms with few dairy cows.
My upper middle class family in Houston drinks it all the time. Yes they're all die hard conservatives.
In addition to what everyone else has said, I think it's also from ideas of "return to tradition" and a veneration of a kind of rural lifestyle that largely doesn't exist anymore. My extended family are farmers and even they got out of livestock when I was really young because there's not enough profit except at obscene scale. But milk fresh from the cow was a thing I grew up hearing about from cousins, it was apparently viewed as safe enough for the older kids as long as you cleaned the teat and it was really really fresh. But I wouldn't be surprised if the conditions in factory farms added another layer of risk that just wasn't there in the 90s on the last remaining family farms.
Edit: also some of them are operating under the mistaken idea that raw milk is healthier or more nutritious (it's not), or that or tastes better (actually possible, I actually heard it tasted slightly better as a kid).
Return to tradition is not the whole story.
For conservatives, power is wielded or power is seceded. In a government that you don't trust, that's forcing you to drink pasteurized milk, the idea of raw milk is kind of that "the government is hiding something from us" and not "the government is protecting us". While there is some overlap between "the government can't be trusted with milk" with "the government can be trusted with immigrants", for the most part they aren't necessarily the same people but they are cut from the same cloth.
They don't want the government to control them. The government controls other people.
It's why people like RFK are so dangerous because he now has the power to remove many of the safety nets we have grown accustomed to. Instead of Trump's first term where COVID was downplayed, we won't even test for avian flu. We won't even research cures.
Not only that, given the sheer kowtowing media outlets are doing we likely will have challenges reading outbreaks in other countries.
This is not an exaggeration. We are in fascism today.
When consuming raw milk directly from your own cow its a lot safer than anything related to shipping, holding and selling it. Raw milk always contains bacteria and other microbes. These take time to grow so drinking it immediately doesn't give them time to grow. But any amount of time between that allows them to go crazy. So it can be safe to drink raw milk in the old method where it came directly from your own cow with no time between. Its anything with scale that causes all the issues.
I think you're hit the nail on the head. There's a concept in engineering (Hyrum's Law) that where systems interface with each other (e.g. software), the design of one will ultimately rely on every aspect of the other, intentional or otherwise. In the case of industrially produced milk, pasteurization permits a relatively high degree of filth on the supply side when compared to practices in the EU or UK (they ship more raw product). So, it stands to reason that this isn't just likely but exactly what's going on since everyone can get away with it.
It's the hip new way to feel rebellious and tell the government "you can't tell me what to do" while the government fucks them over and steals their future for a quick pay day.
It's a carefully orchestrated distraction.
My mother's been on the "natural health" train for a while now and claims that pasteurizing milk removes most of the nutrients (verifiably false). No amount of my protesting or pointing her towards sources for the contrary have convinced her to stop consuming that garbage.
It's anti vax and anti regulation so basically a maga wet dream. Squeeze cow, milk, ta da. In reality to the other 3/4 of humanity it's a microbial breeding ground for unfiltered mutations and diseases because you're just trusting the entire food chain leading up to the cow has been healthy and unmutated.
Pasteurized milk goes through a process where you filter out unwanted microbes or unsafe mutations before bottling the milk. It's like boiling water before drinking vs drinking from a puddle.
The only half reasonable argument I've seen is that requiring pasteurisation (supposedly) makes it difficult for small dairy farms that want to sell direct to consumer, and forces them to sell to large milk companies for a far lower price. I have no idea how valid that argument is.
I don't think so. I remember that we bought milk directly from the farm as a kid (Germany, so experiences may vary), but it always got collected in a big container that automatically pasteurized it during storage. Every farm had those, so they couldn't have been that expensive.
If no one else has mentioned it, there are also those idiotic fascists (but I repeat myself) that were/are big on guzzling milk to show how "superior" they are because lactose intolerance is fairly common, but even more common among non-whites.
Extra Nazi points if it's raw milk, maybe?
Damn Empire milk-drinkers. A True Nord is raised on mead straight from their momma's teat.
Brawndo hasn’t been invented yet.
Regression. World is scary. Milk brought safety during infancy and the limbic system remembers.
Crying and shitting themselves not good enough?
The conscription of the granola moms.
I think it's just that it's a regulation, and regulation bad. I don't want the gunment telling me I can't drink raw milk. No, fools, the government doesn't want people selling raw milk.
A lot of the US understands capitalism as purchasing choices at the store. Therefore if I can buy more stuff at the store I'm more free. Regulation bad.
This is handy for actual capitalist that want to abuse their workers and their customers by selling poison or watered down milk with plaster of Paris for color and liquified calf brains for texture miles from cows that are fed sawdust and literally dying. 👈 Why we regular milk now because this is all literally what was occuring.
I think it's one of the easiest ways they can "stick it to the man".
Let them get their raw milk then?
Kids shouldn't die because their parents are idiots.
The rare salient point.
The frightening thing is that there are a bunch of "YEAH! KILL THOSE KIDS!" people elsewhere in the thread.
honestly im at a point politically, where i think that it needs to happen to be able to knock sense into people.
Thats it! Its not that we rejoice in their dead kids or some shit, but they just wont listen unless theyre personally effected
it's eugenics, but legal, why shouldn't we? Clearly letting them live up till now hasn't served them well.
I mean if they grow up to be MAGA…….
/s
They might be kind of doomed anyway.
Yes they should. Children of profound idiots don't DESERVE to die, but no one should be surprised when they eat lye or invest in 401k. Misunderstand eveything.
Pathogens don't care whether or not you spread them to other people who don't drink raw milk, I'm afraid.
And people who care, actually do things like get vaccines, and believe doctors.
Unless they can't, some people are immunocompromised. The world is more complicated than you think, so try thinking instead of reacting.
Well, I get that. And at this point, I'm sicking of trying to keep people from setting the house on fire, while they are dousing themselves with gasoline.
You are living in the same house
Don't even bother. They think you can vaccinate against bacteria. And they've doubled down on it three times now.
https://www.reuters.com/article/world/fact-check-vaccines-do-protect-against-viral-infection-idUSKBN25O207/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9144739/
Please tell me about the salmonella and e. coli vaccines.
I dunno if we have them, because they are both only transmissible via tainted food or water. And, well, if you don't drink or eat tainted food, you wont really have to worry, now will you?
You don't know that you can't have a vaccine against bacteria?
Then maybe you're out of your depth here.
Pneumonococcal vaccine doesn't exist?
Dude, seriously stop digging. Vaccination is for viruses, not bacteria.
I get that you really love your raw milk, but that doesn't entitle you to just make shit up.
There isn't an available bird flu vaccine that we could manufacture fast enough to make it available even if we started right now. This is assuming that they let us have it instead of telling us to tough it out and take some vitamin C.
There are actually several already ready to go, just not done because... Well, Bird Flu hasn't made the jump.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H5N1_vaccine
And, as long as the civilize nations of the world keep doing the rational thing, they'll be able to limit the damage to just the US.
You didn't even read that, did you?
There is no guarantee that any "pre-pandemic" vaccines will work.
But then, you think you can vaccinate against bacteria...
You can't vaccinate against pneumonia?
Lol, k.
No. No you can't. Again, you really do not understand how any of this works. Pneumonia isn't even a cause, it's a symptom. I can be caused by fungi, viruses or bacteria. Saying you can vaccinate against pneumonia is like saying you can vaccinate against a runny nose. That's literally not how anything works.
But please do keep digging.
I think that's their point. Just let them be adults and decide. I think overall it's a very calculate issue used as a proxy for something else. What I don't understand is why the Democrats or people on the left haven't seen this stuff for what it is. Also there's no counter to this strategy. It's like a weird game theory situation where one group is knows game theory and the other side knows how to play checkers
That much is true. Its a proxy for industry de-regulation.
I'm all for people getting the raw milk they demand, because I hope it will lead to a quick demise.
Problem is, if they acquire a novel virus, they can basically send us into another pandemic.
This kind of crap hurts everyone.
Honestly?
It would not be a bad thing, if that were to happen in the US. Then, we wouldn't be able to fuck over other countries, due to a severe lack of manpower.
Um, no thanks to that, thank you very much.
If you think something with a fatality rate of ~52% would be a good thing? Not sure what to do with that...and there is no fucking way something like that would stay within our borders in any case.
I'd say the 52% likely overlaps greatly with the 49% that created the situation.
If only. Sadly, that's not how it works.
The non raw milk people should market their milk on the carton with
Death and Disease Free
Big Dairy would probably mark everything up, selling pasteurization as a premium feature.
Adult implies mental competency.
The flu in general is great at swapping proteins with other strains many of which are extant in the population right now. Every human bird flu infection of which there are presently few is a chance for highly pathogenic bird flu to make a version that is more transmissible which might yet retain its present greater than covid lethality. If this happens millions could die among them the most vulnerable including the old and those with auto immune disorders. Most of these folks who would die don't themselves drink raw milk for obvious reasons.
Well, thankfully, civilized nations around the globe will be able to contain the damage to mostly just the fascist Imperial States of America.
No they won't be able to. There is no tested and mass produced vaccine as of yet. There is no guarantee that a vaccine vs the present bird flu will work against what idiots brew up. Even if the experimental vaccines we have in the pipe are functional against the strain that emerges there is no reason to believe that everyone especially the poorer nations shall be able to manufacture enough fast enough to prevent widespread death.
Covid did have the silver lining of really jump-starting science and medicine in this regard. I shudder to think how the viciously stupid and hateful donvict administration will handle something like bird flu, even with these great tools we now have.
There is not a chance of that happening.
People in America also thought that Covid was just something "over there" when it started in China, too. That's not how disease works.
That's because the entire apparatus ton handle it was dismantled by the Trump.
Other nations weren't so stupid.
Not for long, they won't, because they won't be allowed to.
Because they won't exist.
If they die they die. It's a risk I'm willing to take
Except they're also giving it to their kids, who are far more susceptible to the diseases
Ok, so they get to watch their kids die at their own hands, and then head off to jail. Problem seems to be fixing itself.
I said what I said
What you said is horrible and you should feel horrible.
But your willing to sacrifice children's lives for your own political goals is noted. Israel does something similar.
They aren't responsible for other peoples kids.
You really are not connecting A and B here.
They said there should be a general strike. I said to them that 40% of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck, meaning that missing work means not being able to feed and house their kids.
They said they can just take their kids to a soup kitchen. Which, and I don't know how to make this any clearer to you, will not stop their kids from getting taken away from them because they're homeless.
So you're right, they aren't responsible for other people's kids and neither are you. You just both expect people to sacrifice them anyway.
Did you reply in the wrong chain? I can't find where either of you said those things.
look bro, would i push for a law that allows raw milk to be sold? Probably not, if they push one, am i going to stop them just because they might end up killing people? Also no, collateral damage is still damage, and we're so far gone it's not gonna improve much at this point.
This has absolutely nothing to do with what is being discussed, which is child abuse.
Both of you keep trying to change the subject.
And when that kid grows up to be a nazi youth and is ushering you into a death camp????
Why are you assuming that? Do you think fascism is a genetic trait? Which gene is the fascism gene?
Are your politics the same as your parents? Because I sure as fuck am not a Zionist like my father was.
I don't give a fuck about their kids.
Not all kids grown in a Republican household turn out to be Republicans.
Especially the ones raised on raw milk.
And without vaccinations.
Same.
No one is worried they are gonna turn out republican. This next generation is going to turn out nazi.
Yeah but they might
Kids are innocent, regardless of how shitty the parents are.
Right, but what does that have to do with children drinking milk?
Human beings deserve to live. It's not our call to make whether we just save good people, just that we try to save people. Anything less isn't enough.
We can't play God.
I can't entirely agree with this. Their kids don't deserve to suffer. But yeah, I kinda don't have a whole lot of hope for them.
Suffer not the Republican lest he taketh thine liberty
At least this time the disease will stay confined to the stupid.
Isn't it contagious
Tuberculosis is also carried in unpastuerised milk. The US currently has the largest outbreak in its history.
Yeah, in Kansas City. From what I've been able to track down, Patient Zero came back from a recent trip to the Federated States of Micronesia. Current infected rate reported hit 66 people, but that might be higher.
If you're in the Midwest, brush up on symptoms to look for, and stay away from Nursing Homes and elementary schools if you're vulnerable.
Bird flu? Human-to-human either isn't happening, or is extremely rare, can't remember.
For now. If it mutates to become more contagious without becoming less deadly, that becomes an everyone problem
Stupidity? Based on the election result, I would say yes.
You can at least get vaxed for tb.
That's not how diseases work.
Why do these fucking morons always want the objectively worst thing? The absolute dumbest thing you can think of and they're all for it. Why is the world like this now? I can't fucking stand it. "Let's get rid of the FDA and OSHA!" Like, what the fuck is this horse shit. This shouldn't be allowed to happen! I'm legitimately losing my sanity more and more each day.
it's because the government wants to fuck of us over duuude !! everything they say we should do opposite!! the government is a giant monolith and every human that works for them magically agrees to the same ideologies which force us to drink raw milk!! because they agreed pasteurized milk is good therefore it is bad !!
that's really all they think
Because they know what milk is supposed to taste like. You clearly don't.
You can go ahead and say "we." You're clearly one of them.
There ain't a boot anyone on this shitty website won't try swallow.
Demonstrably incorrect. For instance, Lemmy users seem to not find the boots you suckle palatable at all.
What's wrong with the taste of pasteurized milk? Does the salmonella in the raw milk give it extra spiciness or something?
See this is what I mean. You have literally no idea what milk actually tastes like, just that sugar water sold in stores these days.
That's not an answer.
Also, I don't see any sugar listed here as an added ingredient, just the sugar that's naturally in cow's milk. You know cow's milk naturally has sugar in it, right? Even the raw kind?
Is Müller lying to the British government?
That is absolutely an answer. You need to try it at least once in your life, you literally don't know what you are talking about.
Your answer was based on the falsehood that the milk I drink has added sugar, which it does not.
So sure, it's an answer, it's just a lying answer.
Let them drink that stuff by the gallons. It helps raising the average IQ.
I get it, but this is really going to disproportionately hurt kids. Maybe their parents are on board with this, maybe they're just uninformed.
Unfortunately they are buying it for their kids too.
They are going to harm their own children, too, which is the real tragedy here.
stop. don’t. come back…
help.... police.... murder
because charlie, they are all a bunch of nitwits
98% certain this is Poe's Law in action, but the ideas are stupid enough to merit removal.
Insert Gene Wilder pic here.
Yes, Poe's law. I was trying to toe the line on satire and actual things I've actually heard conservatives say. Thanks for doing good work and keeping that junk to a minimum, even if my satire gets caught in the crossfire.
Sorry but how the fuck are insurance companies OK with this? They hold extreme amounts of power over the US. They are going to have to do ridiculous amounts of payouts for hospital bills.
How the fuck are people's life saving surgeries getting denied at pre-approval, but they are not denying people's coverage for fucking drinking raw milk??
You haven't heard? AI is going to automatically deny all those claims, problem solved.
Maybe if this takes off raw milk will show up on health questionnaires or be in the fine print as a pre existing condition
They don’t pay out the bills lol. I imagine they’ll work on dismantling the ACA/“Obamacare.” Insurance will cover nothing.
Same as every other money minded entity, if they speak out they'll be shouted down or destroyed. Ethics don't matter, number go up.
they can just outright deny them im guessing, the consumer bought it, knowingly.
And theyll somehow blame Dems
Fascists always turn on each other.
Beautiful ... the Darwin Awards are now coming to your grocery store
Let them drink raw milk
Cows are getting avian influenza. Farm workers are getting it from the chickens and cows. There is concern that people may eventually catch bird flu from raw milk. The more people get infected, the greater the odds that a mutation will develop that allows human to human transmission. Unfortunately, we may, yet again, have all of our lives and livelihoods threatened by people too ignorant to take even the most basic precautions for self preservation.
Not seeing the problem, here.
…And? We need a little chlorine in our gene pool. If the dumbest and most ignorant segment of America wants to kill themselves, it’s an adult making an adult’s decision. It can only improve society if they do.
My only objection kicks in when kids end up in the cross hairs of that stupidity and ignorance.
Controversial, but the kids have to die for the idiot adults to learn their lesson.
It's a tragedy because they have little to no agency. But these morons, like those who refuse vaccines, need to watch their kids suffer and die to feel the consequences for themselves to understand why safety regulations are written in blood.
Quite charitable of you to assume they would ever come to understand anything. From what I've seen, my money's on them finding some way to blame the godless libs and not learning a darn thing.
I guess there's 1 upside to the potential loss of school lunches?
its because it is dangerous.
There's literally no point in selling non pasteurized milk, unless you want to waste money and cause potential health issues.
Literally all pasteurization does is heat up the milk, moderately, for a short period of time, and thats it.
It's more cost effective to do at scale, it's easier to regulate, ensuring consumer safety is easier, and ensuring that something happens if your dumbass doesn't do it properly, can also happen. The only reason you shouldn't do this is if you want to pasteurize your own milk, for some reason.
Maybe if you hate having free time, and need more responsibilities you should go synthesize your own fucking motor oil. Not pasteurize milk.
If you want to make Kefir at home you need raw milk. Obviously US goes into Soviet times so they will need it. This and potatoes in every home garden.
Kefir is delicious though
I make yogurt all the time with pasteurized milk. Why would “thin yogurt” require raw milk? I have read that you get a thicker yogurt using regular pasteurized milk instead of ultra pasteurized milk, but I have had zero problems making yogurt with either.
No you do not.
Buy and maintain some kefir grains, it's not expensive or difficult and does not require raw milk.
https://culturesforhealth.com/collections/kefir/products/milk-kefir-grains
Ok then this thing. My father used to do it. I’m not a fan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soured_milk?wprov=sfti1
Cheese made from unpasteurized milk can be safe, its what happens in most of the world. As long as its done correctly, tested and labeled as such that is fine. The whole point of the cheesemaking process is to encourage the good microbes to outcompete with the bad ones to make the cheese since its a preservative method. Its the drinking of raw milk that is dangerous. So of course that is the part that everyone wants to do and fight about
From what I know of the US food industry, I still wouldn't chance it over there.
Unpasteurized cheese will typically be higher end because it's more difficult and slower to make. ( Unpasteurized cheese typically use the natural yeasts and bacterias to ferment so are slower). So as long as it labeled it should be fine
This will almost certainly cause a rise in neonatal Listeria cases from maternal transmission...which even if the child survives, can leave them with lifelong disability and functional dependency. Through no fault of their own...just their parents.
Poor family from medical bills, more easily manipulated into voting GOP. 3 votes secured!
Science doesn't say that. Control freak whiners say it.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/foodborne-disease/salmonella-outbreak-tied-raw-milk-products-often-implicated-firm-may-have
Salmonella outbreak tied to raw milk products from often-implicated firm may have sickened 165
https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/dangers-raw-milk-unpasteurized-milk-can-pose-serious-health-risk
"According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), from 1998 through 2018, there were 202 outbreaks linked to drinking raw milk These outbreaks caused 2,645 illnesses and 228 hospitalizations. CDC points out that most foodborne illnesses are not a part of recognized outbreaks, and for every illness reported, many others occur."
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/updates-bird-flu-outbreak-now-linked-raw-milk/story?id=116479974
"Updates on the bird flu outbreak, now linked to raw milk products in California
The first case of bird flu in a person was confirmed in April by the CDC."
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/two-cats-in-california-died-after-drinking-raw-milk-recalled-for-bird-flu-their-owner-says
"Nearly a dozen cats in California have died since early December after consuming raw milk or raw pet food contaminated with bird flu, health officials have said.
The infections have followed a massive outbreak of the bird flu virus in dairy cows, which has affected in more than 900 U.S. dairy herds in 16 states. About 80 percent of those herds are in California.
Federal and state health officials have warned people not to drink raw milk because of the potential for infection with bird flu and a host of other germs. Officials also have cautioned pet owners to avoid feeding unpasteurized milk and raw meat diets to their animals."
Any bets if that CDC link is still working in 2026?
Legal in the UK and they're fine. I don't need help whatsoever. Clotted cream is fucking delicious.
Some odd use of the word "fine" I'm not familiar with:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/raw_milk
Is raw milk safe?
Raw milk can carry dangerous bacteria such as salmonella, e-coli, listeria and campylobacter.
A 2019 Public Health England review finds raw milk responsible for 26 outbreaks of intestinal infectious disease in England and Wales between 1992 and 2017. These involved 343 people and resulted in 41 hospitalisations. There were no outbreaks between 2003 and 2013, but seven occured between 2014 and 2017.
Pasteurised milk was the cause of 12 outbreaks during the same 25-year timeframe: 10 due to pasteurisation failures and two to post-pasteurisation contamination.
“In terms of food safety, from a microbiological point of view, drinking raw milk is not safe", says Dr Jorge Gutierrez-Merino, a lecturer in food microbiology at the University of Surrey. “Raw milk may contain many different pathogenic microbes, including some deadly bacteria, which could cause fatal infections, mainly in children, the elderly and immunocompromised people", adds Dr Gutierrez-Merino.
A representative of FSA says “a ban of raw cow’s drinking milk was introduced in Scotland in 1983", adding it poses“a high risk to public health […] with 12 potentially associated deaths in Scotland in the early 1980s".
In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, raw milk is sampled and tested four times a year by hygiene inspectors. The farms are inspected twice a year and the herd must be healthy and free from brucellosis and tuberculosis.
If testing detects the presence of harmful bacteria or is ‘inconclusive’, the relevant local authority must be informed and sales of raw drinking milk must cease immediately. The cause of the problem must be identified and corrective action taken. Sales can resume after at least two consecutive tests from different batches of milk proving its safety.
"Mmmm! This cyanide tastes just like almonds!"
Fucking hell, you people don't even understand what pasteurization is. The temperature is literally not raised high enough to qualify as being under NA health regulations.
Clotted Cream isn't the same thing as raw milk.
https://www.roddas.co.uk/faqs/
"IS CLOTTED CREAM PASTEURISED?
Yes it is pasteurised and therefore is it safe for both children and pregnant women to eat and enjoy.
IS CLOTTED CREAM SAFE FOR PREGNANT WOMEN TO EAT?
Yes, it’s pasteurised, so it’s perfectly safe for those with a bun in the oven."
One of the key manufacturers of clotted cream says in their very own FAQ page, TWICE, that you're wrong.
The reason it's not for export is that it's not shelf stable enough to export. Totally different issue from pasturuzation.
Removed and temp banned for repeated misinformation.
Brother, why do you think pasteurization was invented?
I personally don't see an issue with people wanting to eat risky foods, but don't try and tell us that we shouldn't warn you that they are risky and could harm you. What happens after is your responsibility, but at least allow people to make an informed decision first rather than cover up the obvious health risks.
When there choice can harm others by spreading of disease we should care.
It's not a this only affects them situation.
Plus, these people inflict these risks on their kids which should be child abuse. The kids aren't able to make an informed choice.
Because it'd take a week in a shitty wooden "tanker" to move milk from farms into the Parisian slums.
Not sure what that has to do with anything. Milk still needs to be transported from farms to consumers regardless of whether or not it was pasteurized.
travel and learn
All over the world people are doing really dumb things.
Lol have fun with your bird flu
science literally does.
Science says that if you fall over and hit your head on the ground you might fucking die also.
Welp time to switch to 100% oat milk
Oat milk is great imo. Planet Oat extra creamy is the best available where I'm at.
Depending on your patience, you can make your own for super cheap. It's roughly 100g oats to 1000g water, with 20-50g neutral oil, and a tiny bit of guar and xanthan gums. Blend the oats and water for a minute, strain, then add the gums and oil and blend again. Sweeten to taste. Maybe ten minutes max.
If you can get it easily, adding amylase enzymes (blend of alpha, beta and gamma works best) after blending, warming to around 140, let sit for 30 minutes and then raise to 180 for 5 will increase the sweetness and keep it from getting gloopy. You can get them pretty cheap from a brewing supply store. It's how they make commercial oat milk, and it's how they can say "no added sugar" and still have it be sweet.
What does neutral oil mean? Just any vegetable oil like olive oil or canola oil etc?
An oil without a flavor. Olive oil is an example of a not neutral oil since it imparts a flavor to the dish.
Corn, vegetable, soybean, canola and peanut are good examples. No one would drizzle a little corn oil on a plate to dip bread in. :)
They also can tolerate higher temperatures, so you can use them in cooking a bit easier.
One that doesn't have a strong taste, canola yes, olive no.
You wonderful human being, thank you.
Yeah see this is the thing.
Looking at the ingredients of oat milk it's often as little as 2% oats.
That checks out looking at these ingredients... 4/5ths of the oats are strained out.
That means it's really oily unsugary water with a whiff of oat.
What is even the point of that.
Also, fun fact... the xanthan gum seems to kill the creme on a nice cup of black coffee. So a dish of oat milk in your long black is... undesirable.
The "point" is that it's a tasty beverage.
Why on earth would you measure the quality of a beverage by how diluted the solids are, or how much filler gets strained out?
"Milk is just watered down cheese! It's 87% water! What's the point of it?"
Coffee hardly has any coffee in it, you throw away most of the bean.
Don't even get me started on broth.
The fat content is equal to or lower than the fat content of typical dairy based creamers, which is also where the sugar content comes from. A mild quantity of fat is required for the creamer to have a good mouth feel and have a degree of "coating" effect. The gums help keep the fat in suspension since I lack a homogenizer like they use on milk, as well as increasing the viscosity in a way that's imparted by protein in milk.
If you want to you can just eat the result without filtering. It's called oatmeal. It's still watered down though, so I might recommend toasting them and having a nice dry oat bar to go with your puck of dehydrated milk.
In general, I'd recommend against putting any sort of creamer in your black coffee. It tends to make it no longer black coffee.
I don't personally find issue with any of the emulsifies doing anything to coffee I don't like, but if you're exploring there are plenty of others. I've had good luck with konjac in a blend with guar, xanthan, and methylcellulose, but two of those are less likely to be in the baking aisle at the store. The more you use the smaller the proportional quantity you need, since they have a synergistic effect. Less than a gram total combined weight of the four previous ones makes a consistency like heavy cream. Great for ice cream base.
Your comment is great, equally snarky and informative. I appreciate it and got a couple giggles out of it, too!
Thanks for taking the time for both of your comments. I've saved them for the future as I can no longer drink dairy and not a fan of how much sugar some of the commercial oat milks have
No problem! I've been lactose intolerant for a while but over the past several years it's gotten a bit more ... Dramatic. The lactose free ice cream always seems to have a funny taste to me, but I tried a oat milk ice cream and was really surprised how creamy it was.
I have an ice cream maker so I started doing some science at making my own. There are worse hobbies, since even the failures are almost always edible. (I did make one with the "fun" property of being nearly identical in texture at every temperature. Scooping some into a hot pan and having it crisp but remain soft is... Unnerving)
If you make some, feel free to let me know how it goes! I'd be happy to give pointers to push it in a direction you prefer, or just have another data point for what works. :)
Thanks for the tip on making this. We typically have almond milk in the fridge as it's easy to find, but it sure is not cheap. Maybe taking a stab at making oat milk to taste might be a fun experiment.
We don't really have any milk in our fridge except for the very rare recipe. Our house is vegetarian, nearly vegan. I don't really consume almond milk directly if you will - I drink my coffee black - I'll use it with the rare bowl of cereal I might have. Now I'm wondering how homemade oat milk might work out.
I've never been a big fan of milk anyway - and that extends to alternatives - and same with the rest of my family, so even something tasty is probably not going to get used up very quickly ( a half gallon of almond milk will often be in our fridge for 2 weeks or more ) - how long will this keep?
This will not last super long unfortunately, since it's not pasteurized. Your best bet is to treat it like fresh orange juice.
Using it for cereal, you'll want to get the brewer enzymes. Oats have a carbohydrate in them that gets gloopy after a not long time without them. In coffee or tea it's less noticeable because of the stiring, but cereal I fear might be lessened.
I'm not personally vegan, but lactose is mean to me. Trying to make a lactose free ice cream led me to find that the vegan community has suitable ice creams, but a lot of them feel like a compromise, so the challenge of it became the focus of the science-ing I went down.
As a result it's best suited to making ice cream and popsicles (needs tweaking for that purpose), and alone is more of a cream consistency. For a usable quantity for cereal, you might cut the oats in half-ish (5-7% of water weight), reduce the oil to no more than 10g/1% and keep the gums the same. The recipe scales well, so you can make a half liter just as well. Although with how cheap oats are it's almost not worth it to bother.
Hmm, I don't find it "tasty" myself and just kind of assumed it was milk's ugly-cousin substitute. Why else would it be oat "milk" if not intended as a substitute? It never occurred to me that someone would drink it as a stand alone beverage because... there's much nicer drinks around than oily water.
There's a cafe here that doesn't serve cows milk so they offer oat milk to everyone that asks. "Nah mate I'm good just poor some oil in there that'll do".
We don't really do "creamers" here. It's either cow's milk, cream, or this type of vegetable oil based substitute "milk".
Also just to make sure you're aware, all coffee is black coffee before you add "creamer".
It's called oat milk because English has called any white liquid milk longer than we've had the notion that milk only comes from mammals. In some recipes from the 12th century dairy milk is actually the poor man's substitute for almond milk.
I'm confused about your obsession with the oil content. Do you only use skim or non-fat milk?
Most people like some fat in their milk because it makes it have a better mouth feel and to be less watery. But, as you mentioned, your tastes are different from other people's and you sometimes don't like things that other people do, so it's fine if you don't like fatty milk.
It never occurred to you that people buy and consume a beverage because they like it? What an interesting world you live in.
You don't say. What wonders will they think of next.
Nonsense. It's called oat milk because it sells better if people think of it as a milk substitute. "Tasty Oat Drink" just doesn't have the same appeal.
I'm "obsessed" with the oil content because most people sipping oat milk lattes think that it's the nectar lovingly squeezed from plump little oats by italian virgins while sunning themselves by the seaside.
It never occurred to me that anyone would enjoy drinking tasty oat drink.
Sorry it's just that your earlier witty retort seemed based on a misconception regarding this particular nuance of beverage preparation. My bad.
Anyhow, feel free to have the last word in this tawdry little tete-a-tete but for my own part I think I'll leave you to appreciate your oil based milk substitute.
Horchata, aka chilled rice drink, is only like less than 1% rice! It's mostly water and sugar, with some spices!
What's the POINT?!?!
Spoiler: horchata is delicious, and basically the same thing as oatmilk, when you get down to it.
One of the few things I really miss about living in L.A. was all the little agua fresca stands where I could get horchata. And cheap.
I drank milk from the tank and cream is the best. However, I still prefer pasteurized milk. If the MAGAts want to drink raw milk, let them and watch the green apple splatter flow.
Let them drink it.
Big year for Tuberculosis
Soon to be former regulators I'm guessing.
You know what, just let it happen. I'll just do my best to stay away from any milk for four years. We'll see how things turn out afterwards.
Switch to almond
I like soy better
Oat is GOAT for coffee
And oatmeal. And oats cereal. I feel like I'm missing something...
Bobby Singer spitting wisdom.
RIP Bobby.
But I can still get the pasteurized stuff, right?
Not for long.
Guess it's almond milk for me then.
Go Darwin! Go!
I for one want to allow all conservatives to consume as much raw milk as they want.
They will catch viruses that will kill the rest of us. Protecting the population against communicable diseases requires altruism and cooperation, of which conservatives seem incapable.
Plus, even if all illnesses could somehow be limited to just the people who actively drink it, they give it to their kids who have no say in the matter.
I understand where you're coming from, but then they just become a vector for nasties (e.g. avian flu when it finally overcomes the human-to-human transmission barrier, and you can be sure they won't take adequate precautions to avoid spreading it) as well as risking the health of their children.
You're right, obviously, but I can't help wishing "just desserts"
Damn Nurglites
Unfortunately this wil presumably only be American conservatives.
Will they die?
The second best outcome is suicide by stupidity.
The best is they stop being stupid.
Ehhhhh...
Let them. It'll make the election in 4 years a lot easier.
You've already had your last election.
You can just buy darwin awards right off the shelf, now.
As much as I delight in watching stupid people suffer stupid consequences, the problem here is the same with their anti-mask bullshit - diseases spread. Bird Flu, or something else, could end up being the next COVID pandemic because these fuckwits are gullible as shit. Then they spread those diseases to the most vulnerable people around them, including children. These kinds of people are why I sometimes regret being an artist. If anyone belongs in hell, it's people who hurt kids.
Not trying to be rude, it just genuinely went over my head, what does being an artist have to do with it?
The good news is that drinking raw milk will disproportionately kill conservatives. Every dead conservative is a net win for society.
Let em have it. Only way those types will learn
Ehh let em reap the rewards. Like not wearing masks during covid 🤷♂️
Good analogy, actually, since masks both reduce the risk to the wearer and reduce the risk of the wearer spreading whatever they're carrying to those around them.
Unfortunately raw milk can be a vector for avian flu and if (when) it achieves human-to-human transmission, these people will be vectors.
They are vectors for a lot more diseases than that...
I saw raw milk sold at school. Didn't understand it. What's the difference? If I gave you two cups with raw and pasteurized, could you tell the difference?
You can't tell the difference, and that's part of the problem. One has been cooked slightly to kill pathogens and the other could contain deadly pathogens.
Humans shouldnt be drinking cow milk anymore anyways.
Oh nooo.... Don't drink dangerous things against advice
Milk is dangerous.
Fair question from a French guy, here, where raw milk is not the most common, but easily available in stores, and recommended in many recipes. What's your opinion about raw milk cheese? Do you also think it's super dangerous? Industrialised pasteurized cheese is absolutely sad and boring, compared to raw milk french cheese (quality, variety, taste and authenticity)
Americans are dramatic. Most likely not much bad will happen because unpasteurized milk is now legal. Mostly its democrats wanting to call Republicans stupid, because it makes them feel better to shit on another group of people and put themselves above them.
So you are right to be confused why people are so upset about this. Its not really about the milk.
there's also a big difference between drinking minutes old raw milk directly straight out of the teet, vs commercial operations where the milk is a few hours to days old and is bottled with equipment that isn't perfectly cleaned between each bottle and then consumers sticking it in a fridge for a week. The former is just something farmers are going to do if they want and isn't really a serious public health concern imo (although still not without risk) and can't really be regulated away anyway. the latter exposes way more people and is way more dangerous, and that IS able to be regulated out of existence.
Raw milk is also an active transmission vector for bird flu, which has a mortality rate, by some measures, of about 51%. COVID was about 1 or 2%.
It takes time for the microbes in raw milk to grow to become dangerous. So drinking it on your own farm with your own cow isn't an issue since there is no time for them to grow. Any processing adds time which gives bacteria more time to grow. For a reference, in ideal conditions E. coli can double its population every 20 minutes.
Although this is anecdotal evidence I think you have a few good points. I'd be willing to let the practice be more common as long as the product stayed local (within the county) and the cows were kept in specific conditions (not shoulder to shoulder 24/7). The data regarding this is very small so I wouldn't want stuff to start being transported hundreds of miles until there's some kind of established safety record.
They are voracious readers and consume a large amount of testing data, let the option be there, they are capitalist so the market will cull the product if its not wanted/needed.
Uh. yeah of facebook misinformation
Hey now, you also need to know they listen to vloggers on youtube and twitter too, see they are using a wide variety of sources, and I am sure they checked their sources on the subjects.
/s?
I am just going on what they say. They have done the research
So have they told you what sources they have read?
You know they never can cite them, they just say they do. I always found it odd, but I always thought maybe the teachers were failing them in comprehension and citations. But who am I to think they would bold face lie on the internet to make themselves seem like something they had every chance to be but just couldnt get off their ass to be that.
Do any of you know what clotted cream is? Made in the UK, perfectly safe, delicious, and legal there. Completely illegal here, as made from raw milk. If the brits can figure it out, why can't Canada and the US? There's a large number of European products simply can't be made with pasteurized milk, it's not like it's killing Italians. And it's not just processed forms, it's legal to buy raw milk itself in the UK (except Scotland). Milk sold in the states doesn't even taste like milk anymore, and after the USMCA signing, that stuff started showing up in Canada, straight garbage.
Little more than partially correct because the temperatures aren't that high, hence it being illegal by NA standards.
I doubt you even knew what it was yesterday, don't tell me to look up how to make it, I've been handling that myself a long time. Be surprised if you know what real butter is supposed to taste like either.
Clotted Cream isn't the same thing as raw milk.
https://www.roddas.co.uk/faqs/
"IS CLOTTED CREAM PASTEURISED?
Yes it is pasteurised and therefore is it safe for both children and pregnant women to eat and enjoy.
IS CLOTTED CREAM SAFE FOR PREGNANT WOMEN TO EAT?
Yes, it’s pasteurised, so it’s perfectly safe for those with a bun in the oven."
One of the key manufacturers of clotted cream says in their very own FAQ page, TWICE, that you're wrong.
The reason it's not for export is that it's not shelf stable enough to export. Totally different issue from pasturuzation.
Removed and temp banned for repeated misinformation.